the-only-me-is-me

[the-only-me-is-me]

@koskela-knights replied to your post “Probably an unpopular opinion but here we go: I...”:

@koskela-knights There's a steady decline in fanart/fic/ overall fan content on Tumblr and the main focus often seems to be Alan/Scratch/Zane, Casey used to have a lot of works dedicated to him too but Saga and many other characters often fall behind those first 4 characters and honestly it's a shame. Can't help but notice Remedy kinda mirrors the fans in that they often share more Alan related art on Insta/Twitter and barely any Saga art. It's not like art for her is non-existent, but sadly disproportionately less :/

​You make a good point, those are the top characters and based on checking out older stiff it's been that way for awhile. Remedy does tend to gravitate to fandom favorites and while I can't blame them to a degree because it increases engagement it leaves people fans of other characters with little to nothing. And honestly? It's depressing to see them not advocate more for the dual protagonist but let me be careful when saying that. It's not me accusing them or anything or saying anything about how they feel about Saga or the actress. They have proven they've gone to great lengths to create/write Saga and collaborated with Melanie to create her. The few BTS stuff they have with her seems very pleasant and there's an open window for people looking for it. Remedy has always been progressive in that sense. I still remember when the loser crowd on twitter made a big deal about Saga's mindplace during endgame when she said the "another white man trying to tell me what to do" when AW1 has another line just like that and ironically in the same context, in the mind of Alan instead but Alice vocalizing it. His thought of how she felt anyway but he was aware enough to know the privilege he had. So, any criticisms I've making isn't against Remedy as a developer or their values or process.

If I said anything wrong anyone is open to correct me too or add or anything, I don't mind. Saga is not the only victim of being neglected in terms of characters but wow I really feel it because of her role and how important she is to the narrative. It really is a huge, disproportionate gap that I do wish was spoken about more. Or even better, addressed by the fandom acknowledging this and respond accordingly. I plan to contribute too. I am not good at making content but I want to try if it means Saga can have one more source of fan content.

I have to say to those who already do love Saga and make content of any kind, thank you and sorry if I seemed ungrateful to your efforts in my initial post.

[the-only-me-is-me]

@koskela-knights replied to your post “Probably an unpopular opinion but here we go: I...”:

I havent read too much AnderCase (or other Saga/Character ships for that matter) fics yet but I haven't come across the infidelity topic (yet). But that doesnt take away they're there and there's a double standard between her and Alan who often gets shipped with others and gets 'a pass' for these relationships. I noticed Rose got significantly more attention by the fandom since the Night Springs DLC dropped. And this might be my own unpopular take but I think a big part of that stems from the fact that she has a lot of interaction with Scratch, a fandom favourite. Most works since then also focused on Rose/Scratch. But i notice a decline again. Back to Saga, you're 100% right that she doesn't get the love and enough fanart dedicated to her as she deserves. You're not the only one who noticed this btw. Another user made a similar post months ago about this, linking a part of the issue to racism and misogynoir (additional, I can't help but notice that Estevez is also a woman of color and doesnt have much fanart/fic dedicated to her) It's pretty wack that she is the dual protagonist, yet is often left out/forgotten. TBH, the DLCs didn't help much either with her being fully left out. I remember, there were teasers about the Lake House about Alan and Saga meeting/crossing paths again but I guess that got fully scrapped. Honestly, I also feel Remedy should've promoted Saga more as a character. Share more fanart of her, more BTS shots. On one hand, I get they share lots of Alan stuff, after all he's the titular character of both games, but Saga is literally a dual protagonist!! At least on Twitter, some Virtual Photograhpers started #SagaSunday to boost photos and highlights of her which I thought was a great thing. Sadly, Remedy or AW Twt never rt this initiative which was a missed opportunity imo. They did retweet DeerFest24 initiative but not the Saga one.

​Agreed, my initial post was not worded or expressed well with a cluster of a lot of things into one so I came off as blaming actual creators of these fics for the lack of variation (which was never my intent to do) but it was indeed trying to convey that discrepancy between how Alan is portrayed in fan content and how Saga is and the level of leeway he receives for it doing the exact same thing which is cheating with exception to people being clear of factors like open relationship, etc. And this is not saying Alan fics should conform or anything, but that it'd be nice to see Saga get this leeway too. But this is not saying the cheating content in her ships is wrong or discouraged either, not at all, but the variation would be nice. Not trying to gatekeep but encourage people to care about Saga more but my initial post didn't convey that well, I think. I'm also aware that variation in fan content can only come from more people making fan content so the people who are are not at fault but there's a lack of variety because so many people aren't.

Yes, Rose content and her relevancy within the fandom skyrocketed after the Night Springs DLC. It's understandable since her episode stood out and took a fan's perspective into account but you also make a great point that being in proximity of Scratch probably is a major factor. It's sad too because Saga has had a few encounters with Scratch open for exploration, especially since Scratch possesses Casey and invades her mind place and the boss fights, but it's never been touched up to the date of my response. I though context of their interactions with Scratch are vastly different and context does matter a lot but in regard to that Scratchwake content is full of less savory interactions due to his nature so I'm not sure why it hasn't been done with Saga yet. Scratch is not popular enough to elevate all characters, unfortunately. Scratch haunts Saga throughout the game but it's not explored at all. I say this because he wrote wrote Return to a degree, his influence is from the start.

Yes, fandom activity took a huge dive after Lakehouse and probably will be at that baseline until another release/more content. I forgot Remedy plans to make movies/tv shows so maybe then?

I'll check out that post from another user you mentioned. Given Saga's tag is barebones I'm sure I'll find it if it's tagged, unfortunately. I say that because that's how inactive her tag is, has always been, but the silver lining is finding people who care enough to make content and create discussions. That's true, Estevez is only elevated by her relation to Casey (and their bond over exes). I think Lakehouse will help a little more but nothing like what NS did for Rose which is insane because Lakehouse gave Estevez interesting characters development and displayed her vulnerability as an FBC agent without powers to aid her. I will say that before DLCs people did seem to be more discussion about her, because of Casey, which is insane given Saga's relation to him. So I don;t even know how to wrap my head around this one. Concerning Saga, it's always been weird.

I agree about that so much. If I guessed character relevancy based on fandom activity alone before playing AW2 I'd have guess she was secondary at best. Saga being left out of the DLC was really disappointing for me. I understand she had the base game but I would've loved to see an episode of her and Casey on a case? Maybe seeing more facets of her life? How she deals with familial lonliness? Or just be silly and fun like episode 1 of NS was for Rose. I am glad other characters got some spotlight but I do think it's a shame she didn't get an episode. I'd have loved to see Alan and Saga doing anything in the DLCs. They also hinted Barry Wheeler would show up and he didn't. I guess they changed a lot before release.

In terms of social media and BTS content, I can say they spoke against the racism against Saga's character before the initial release and a time after it when the loser crowd was loud. I have noticed BTS content with Melanie Liburd is very few but I'm not sure if that was a conscious choice of hers or time or what. If she dipped from interacting with the fandom I can't blame her, on instagram she was getting rude comments around the time of the game awards. The loser crowd against her nomination or whatever they were on about. I do wonder how much that played in her absence or is it just schedule stuff since she did a big movie shortly after AW2.

You are 100% agree and do hope Remedy advertises her character more and promotes content with her. Yeah, I heard of #SagaSunday but never see it retweeted much. They do sometimes but not always. They don't always retweet fanart of her either. I have not clue how they choose what to share and not because it's a variety of skill and quality so I don't know how or if stuff they share is given to them by the creators? How does that work? If they have a system that could explain it, I honestly have no clue though.

EDIT:

I saw the tags and thought to respond to those too, sorry about that.

Yeah, racism/mysogynoir is most likely is a component. I'm going to be careful here and say, this is not me saying the entire fandom is racist or people who do not make content for Saga is racist but that this is a component in her neglect as a character, intentional or not.

It's kind of like that in every fandom with a prominent black character. I left the Baldur's Gate 3 fandom because of it. That and it got really toxic when discussions came up and did not help that Lairion did little to levitate the issue by catering to fandom favs more. It's sad because it only nurtures components like this when developers so this though I don't think it's intentional. I do think it does nothing to help though and makes it worse. I can say things did improve in that regard but very late and the game got its last major update so it's as good as it'll get.

I have hope for Remedy because they are very open about inclusion and unlike Lairon's neglect to their prominent character Saga is far from that. Also, the fandom doesn't seem toxic. I am able to speak about this without issue and feel comfortable doing so. I just hope people are going to be open to this discussion and it not sink to irrelevancy too. Since another user has bought it up before and not much has changed, I can admit it feels disheartening.

[the-only-me-is-me]

@emmaswanned replied to your post “@emmaswanned replied to your post “@emmaswanned...”:

I completely understand your frustration with the loud crowd that has problems with Saga, it’s actually very upsetting to me too. And I’m sorry, by the way, I may have had a knee jerk reaction to your initial post but I think we’re both coming at this from the same place, ultimately. :)

Yeah, that crowd ​is a problem and after dealing with similar issues straight out of the Baldur's Gate 3 fandom I guess I was kind of deflated to see the same with Alan Wake 2. Less severe but there. I guess my post was similar, a reaction but not to the fandom troupes but Saga being ignored in general. My initial post did derail so I see how what I was saying was a mess. I'm relieved that, unlike BG3, this fandom seems easier to adjust to and lacks the toxicity that is more common in the other. This is no jab at BG3 either or it's fandom. It's a fantastic game and the good part of the fandom outweighs the bad but it has a lot of issues concerning characters too.

No trouble at all, you had every right to share your thoughts and it helped me too. I gained some perspective. True, coming from the same place ultimately :)

[the-only-me-is-me]

@emmaswanned replied to your post “@emmaswanned replied to your post “Probably an...”:

No, you’re good, I didn’t mean I felt personally targeted. Anyway, you’re not wrong about Saga being ignored by a lot of people in the fandom.

​Thank you for understanding and I'm relieved you didn't feel specifically targeted. I am sorry though, thank you for making your thoughts known. Every fic I have read exploring any aspect of Saga is incredible to add. I think I did mention the fics are good in the initial post. I'll be careful how I express that. You're right, I'll think of it from a different angle.

I only hope that Saga being ignored changes in the fandom. Seems the further away it is from the base game's release she too loses relevancy and she had very little to begin with exception to the awful crowd loud in some places. It's very disheartening so I may have overstepped.

I know you said we're good but I am sorry and thank you for reading my post. I'll take caution and make my stances clearer next time.

[the-only-me-is-me]

@emmaswanned replied to your post “Probably an unpopular opinion but here we go: I...”:

I mean, it’s interesting you point out how Saga’s relationship with David is so lackluster. That’s literally why I, at least, write the fics I do. What made her marry David and what makes him mean so little, apparently, to her? There’s obviously conflict there the game doesn’t explore. I mean I could go on and on (and i have!). I think a lot of people find this part of her character genuinely interesting and it’s a LITTLE irritating for someone to come online and say we’re somehow shafting her. I agree that she’s under appreciated by fandom but, gently, I also think you’re targeting the wrong people here 😅 sorry, i just had to say my piece.

​You don't have to apologize, I don't mind if someone speaks their mind. I did and tagged it for people to see. I do want to say sorry if I irritated you and that I wasn't targeting you specifically. I just happen to notice in some tags that there's a common theme. I did not mean to insinuate that this exploration is invalid either or she's 'shafted' from it. That was not my intention or the point of my post. I was saying is that she has many facets to her character left unexplored and her distance to David is interesting but that there's more to her though I guess if her tag had more content it'd be more varied interpretations and exploration of those parts I mentioned. I wasn't saying people shouldn't explore this aspect of her character or that it's wrong or anything. That's the level of gatekeeping that is already keeping her tags small and content limited. Women can have unfavorable traits, weakness, do immoral things and of course cheat. My entire point of comparing her and Alan was to make this point. He has the leeway when she does not. The post started from me noticing a common pattern, not to single out anyone. I wasn't targeting anyone, I was speaking to the fandom in general.

[the-only-me-is-me]

Probably an unpopular opinion but here we go:

I wish Saga ship content wasn't mainly surrounded by infidelity. I know canonically that she's married but can we get happy fic too? Some AUs? Let her have some fun? Not have to shovel guilt down her throat to be with Casey or anyone else? Or if she does have guilt then maybe about other things? Different situations? We're told she's happily married but David is not on her mind place at. All. He doesn't even have a face in the game and maybe a handful of dialogue and half of it is the horror story. Do not think for a second most fans connected with that barebones display of their relationship and make us think this is the best she can do. That she cant be shipped and explored. That she can't have more. Fandom does not have to be strictly canon. People know that when it's not her (or Door but that's another conversation entirely).

Example: Alan has been married since AW1 (regarless of the strain of it in the beginning) and so much content of him with others yet only a fraction, if that, is about him sleeping outside his mairrage. Alan is never held to a standard about these things. So many AUs and care go into him and making ships work for him and yeah he's the main guy but come on. He gets a free card most of the time. Which I don't mind at all, I love Alan too, but for Alan it's okay to sleep with people out his mairrage but not Saga? To have an open mairrage? To have a bounty of AUs where Alice isn't even a factor? To have polyships with Alice? (and most of the time not with Alice).

I remember when characters like Alice and Rose were afterthoughts in the fandom for a long time but they seem severely elevated now despite having significantly less time than the dual protagonist. This isn't me dunking on them, love them both a lot but why leave Saga behind to elevate the other female characters? Same with Estevez. People ship her with Rose before they do Saga yet she and Saga literally interact with each other and have Casey as a friend in common. Based on a recent interview Her VA admits Estevez wants to protect Saga from the world she's in. That's interesting af. The Lake House DLC adds to their dynamic even if a little (and besides ships don't need to canonically make since so again not a drag on Rose and Estevez but Saga is right there). It's really unfortunate.

Before she and Saga were even were considered a ship Saga was sidelined for Estevez and Casey because they had a few hours to bond about exes. Saga and Casey banter and interacted with each other for a good portion of the game and half of Saga's main motivation to beat the horror story. It's difficult to not see this as a problem that is not really getting better (critique on the friend dynamic of these three here if that was not clear, this issue is not just with ship fics but gen/friend fics too).

I know, beggers cannot be choosers and this is not a jab at fics with these themes or fics with other ships, etc. (they are all written amazingly well and love them tbh) but please let our girl have some fun. Please include her. She barely has content as it is and it seems her entire identity is her mairrage or being tied to it. Or cheating. Or not being there at all. Saga is forced to uphold some unforseen level of sanctity otherwise because I always see people say 'can't ship her, she's happily married 🤓', especially on sagacasey posts on twitter (or it's an excuse not to have to draw/write her idk. I really don't know).

She's such an amazing character. I wish the fandom cared about that. About her. It's so depressing sometimes. Remedy put si much care and research into her character, they've shown the work. Wish the fandom applied some of that too. She's always on the back burner to be a dual protagonist. To offer the Remedyverse so much.

I know I sound like an entitled jerk but this isnt just about fics themes. Itstarted as a post about fics thems but then I began thinking about everything else with Saga too. The fandom seems to be so kind and inclusive to each other but when it's time to see it with the characters it's not there. Her tag on tumblr has the same top posts and it only takes a couple of pages to be caught up from posts from 2023 when the game released. The AO3 tag is so small for her... Cannot make this up. Only a handful of people appreciate her... Please remedyverse fandom, include her more. Not just fics. Fanart, cosplay, in-game photos, discussions about story, character studies, essay videos etc. Please. Maybe it make the "sweetbaby inc cucks" shut thr fuck up for once on remedy posts if they see how much she's loved too.