#you’re a chronic liar and gaslighter and its getting old

[never-quite-buried]

This is…such manipulative language and you know it.

I'm really confused about your credentials. I know you're a fashion design student but you've also claimed expertise in ecology and theology and obviously you don't HAVE to prove yourself to randos, but considering how frequently you defer to your own expertise to make claims in those areas, I'm interested to know what you actually have to back that up. It would give a lot of credence to the arguments you make if you had a degree or something.

You're right, I don't have to prove myself to randos.

[nikkoliferous]

"Loki brought it all on himself"

Ok, we need to talk about this frequent claim that Loki deserves all the bad things that have ever happened to him.

Firstly, let's just get this out of the way. The amount of gaslight in the assertion that Loki “broke his family's trust” is unbelievable. As in, I literally cannot believe there are people who genuinely think this. They turn canon completely on its head. Loki's family betrayed his trust—by kidnapping him as an infant, lying to him for his entire life, raising him to despise the Jötnar while knowing that he was actually one of them, and chronically mistreating him—long before he took on any villainous behaviour. Loki’s story is very much one of what can happen when you push even a good person too damn far.

The worst thing Loki can be accused of having done prior to the complete mental collapse he suffers upon learning his life has been a lie, is letting a handful of Frost Giants into Asgard to crash Thor's coronation. He does this partly—in his own words, and he has no reason to lie about this to Laufey of all people—to protect the kingdom from Thor's foolishness and immaturity. And he is not alone in his belief that Thor is not ready to be ruler of Asgard. Odin himself, in a scene that did not make it into the film, expresses doubt about this, and Frigga, interestingly enough, reassures him by reminding him that Loki will be by Thor's side to counsel him and, for lack of better phrasing, keep him from doing too much damage.

So I think we can dismiss that action as a "betrayal" of his family's trust—and even if one does want to consider this a betrayal, it certainly isn't one on a scale that merits spending thousands of years enduring psychological torture (which is what solitary confinement is).

Another assertion frequently made is that Loki manipulates Thor into going to Jötunheim to confront Laufey. Loki most definitely manipulates Thor—but at no point does he suggest doing that. Thor comes up with that harebrained scheme all on his own. The most Loki does is attempt to manipulate the rift between Thor and Odin by playing into Thor's sense of righteous anger and his resentment at being shut down. Not only does Loki not suggest at any point that they should confront Laufey, but he actively takes steps to prevent them from reaching Jötunheim. He tries to talk Thor out of going; he orders a guard to inform Odin of their plans, expecting they'll be intercepted in time; he takes the initiative to speak for them to Heimdall, very likely because he knows Heimdall dislikes/distrusts him. And after all of that fails, he attempts to talk Thor down from starting a war once they're standing in Laufey's court. Interestingly enough, I never see anyone claim that Thor betrays his family's trust by reigniting a war with the Frost Giants, endangering the lives of his family, his friends, and his would-be subjects. It's almost like all the accusations of betrayal that people level at Loki aren't based on any sort of objectivity or moral high ground at all and are merely rationalizations by people working backwards from the conclusion that Loki is “evil”, simply because the narrative has framed him as a villain.

We also need to reckon with the fact that Loki did not "steal" the throne. Thor was stripped of his power and banished to Earth (which was not Loki's doing) when Odin fell into the Odinsleep (also not Loki’s doing). After Thor, Loki is next in line for the throne. That's literally just how the royal line of succession works. With both Odin and Thor incapacitated in one way or another, the responsibility of ruling falls legitimately to Loki. Frigga herself names him regent-king. Loki neither banishes Thor from Asgard nor forces Odin to go napnap, nor indeed does he even attempt to manipulate Frigga to pass the role of regent onto him—if anything, he’s shocked when she does so; therefore, it is completely unreasonable to accuse him of having "usurped" anything.

It’s equally unreasonable to claim that Loki “arranged for” Thor’s banishment, yet I see people say the same time and time again. Let us just recall that 1) Loki attempts to intervene when the fight between Thor and Odin begins to escalate

and 2) This is Loki’s face upon Odin’s inexplicably extreme punishment.

Look, I know Loki is known as being a liar, but if you think his shock here isn’t genuine, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.

Now, I could stop right here because the claim is that Loki betrayed his family’s trust first and thus brought everything on himself. And as I’ve clearly demonstrated, any villainous actions Loki takes, be they in the first Thor film or thereafter, come after learning the truth (aka having his trust broken by his family). But because I know how much people love to move the goalpost when it comes to Loki, let’s just go on to address why none of his actions are truly villainous in the classic sense of the word.

Every wrongful action Loki takes in this film, outside of the aforementioned interference with Thor’s coronation (which we’ve already established may have been ill-conceived but certainly was not a “betrayal”) is a reaction to various betrayals against him or a result of paranoia fueled by a complete emotional collapse.

“Trying to kill” Heimdall is not a betrayal because Loki is defending himself from Heimdall who is attempting to commit regicide. (Also, if Loki had wanted Heimdall dead, he would be. The fact that he’s not, is a demonstration of Loki’s benevolence, not his ruthlessness).

Lying to Thor about Odin being dead is cruel, but it’s not borne of a desire to hurt Thor. Both the lie and, later, sending the Destroyer are borne of desperation, because as Tom himself has stated, Loki believed Thor would kill him if he made it back to Asgard and learned the truth. This is a moment that, if there were any justice in the MCU, ought to have haunted Thor for the rest of his life:

That’s one Jötun who definitely fears him.

This goes far beyond the claim that he betrayed his family, but I’ll address it anyway: tricking the Frost Giants by inviting them into the palace under false pretenses is not a betrayal because there is no established relationship of trust between Loki and the Jötnar. You can’t betray a trust that doesn’t exist.

And attempted genocide is definitely not a betrayal of his family’s trust because genocide is literally what this family does. Genocide is their entire legacy. Despite claims to the contrary, this was an established fact well before Ragnarok. (”So I am no more than another stolen relic, locked up here until you might have use of me?” “I went down to Midgard to rule the people of Earth as a benevolent god, just like you.” “[What of the lives you took on Earth?] A mere handful compared to the number Odin has taken himself”). If anything, trying to destroy Jötunheim was an attempt to live up to the family name. It was misguided and wrong, but it was in no way out of line with what Loki and Thor were raised to do. Asgard is a warrior culture; killing their enemies is not perceived as immoral, but honourable. In fact, one of the reasons Loki’s actions were likely seen as dishonourable is because he used the power of the Bifröst rather than engaging the Jötnar in direct warfare. (Though it is possible, given the state of Svartalfheim, that this was also done in the past to wipe out the Dark Elves). But what was it that Odin said when he was yelling at Thor in the Observatory prior to banishing him?

Odin: “Do you realise what you’ve done? What you’ve started?”

Thor: “I was protecting my home!”

Odin: “You cannot even protect your friends! How can you hope to protect a kingdom?”

At no point does Odin state that killing the Jötnar is wrong. But he does criticize Thor for putting his friends in danger by going to confront Laufey. (This is still not the catalyst for Thor’s banishment. That comes later, when Thor calls Odin “an old man and a fool”). Loki, however, conveniently knows a way to destroy the Jötnar without risking any Asgardian lives. And since a condemnation of killing their enemies is not a part of Odin’s diatribe, he has no reason to believe that Odin disapproved of that part of Thor’s misbehaviour. So now he can say, “Look, Father. I did what Thor couldn’t!”

Thor: “Why have you done this?”

Loki: “To prove to Father that I am a worthy son. When he awakens, I will have saved his life. I will have destroyed that race of monsters and I will be true heir to the throne.”

Only, as we all know, it's in vain.

There’s only one moment in the entirety of the first Thor film that I would class as a genuine betrayal of his family’s trust, and that is that he puts both Frigga and Odin in harm’s way when he invites Laufey into Asgard under the false pretense of allowing him to slay Odin in his sleep. This was very short-sighted of him; what if he’d been too late and his scheme had gotten Frigga killed before he’d arrived to intervene? Betraying his family was not his intent here, but in his highly emotional state of mind, he did endanger them needlessly— much like Thor needlessly endangered his friends and his brother by going to Jötunheim and starting this whole mess to begin with. (However, I never see fans criticise Thor for this. And they should. My point here is not that Loki should not be criticised for endangering his family, but that there needs to be consistency. If you’re going to call out Loki for endangering his loved ones, you need to call out Thor as well. If you’re going to call out Loki for mass slaughter, you need to call out Thor as well).

In short, I think my favourite thing about the vast majority of Loki antis is their blatant disdain and lack of empathy for the mentally ill and the abused. And by ‘favourite thing’, I of course mean that it disgusts me.

(Tagging @magicmastered​ and @just-another-human-2019​ because you both expressed interest in the post 😘)