#you still covet the title buddy idk what to say

[arthur-lesters-right-arm]

John: I AM NOT THE KING I AM HUMAN I HAVE HUMANITY I AM MORE THAN JUST A FRACTURED PIECE OF THE KING IN YE-

John in any situation where someone has the upper hand in the slightest: I am about to flex my KIY privileges so hard

[scottfreed]

Orion & Scott should be friends if not awkward step brothers. The forced antagonism is lame.

I had an argument with two people about the way I characterized Orion and Scott in a fic a while back, and I wanted to make a big post to compile my canon basis for writing them as somewhat distant brothers who respect and defend each other. I particularly had one fan continuously say Tom King's characterization is gospel and completely consistent, and I was an "abuse apologist" for writing them in a positive way. I wanted to pay particular attention to the question of succession since that's the main source of conflict for them in MM '17.

Orion and Scott have had numerous character interactions that have predominantly ranged from generally amicable to warm and familiar with key exceptions. (Rough recount incoming)

MM '74

Their first interaction Orion literally saves Scott's life so he and Barda can get married.

Dude is actually the one who called for the wedding in the first place. And he was playing the Bouncer. And look at him on Barda's side of the alter. He's totally the Maid of Honor:

Super Powers '86

(This was the first comic I ever read with both characters just to disclose my bias.)

Short but fun lesser known title! But there's some interesting world building happening. And Orion and Scott paling around in their co-rulers era:

They're buddies and its great. Also look and Orion's drip.

Look at this! The bois are co-ruling Apokolips for a brief stint. The exact opposite of Orion trying to "steal the throne form scott", He literally called him up to help him manage his own!

This is such a great expression of both their characters. Scott's survivors guilt for being able to escape the Hell of his upbringing and Orion's driving fear of ending up a tyrant like his father.

And look at this "interview":

We need to bring back authors doing make-believe interviews with fictional characters. Simply outstanding. The idea that in the face of nature and nurture they both gravitated to the light is honestly fascinating.

"(still hushed) Thank you, thank you, my friend..."

^^^ like... there are hurt/comfort fics that aren't as tender as this action adventure comic from 1986 😭😭😭

The New Gods Vol 3

But whoa what's this?

Bickering? I guess they do just inherently have an antagonistic relationship... except look what's actually being said.

Orion and Lightray aren't pissed because they think Orion is so great that he should be in charge of everything and Scott's in the way Ala Tom King. (It's because this writer didn't want to write for Scott in this title and the crappy answer for this is to make Scott an annoying "80s era pacifist" which is pretty shameful in the context of world-ending stakes tbh.)

But again, Orion's not miffed because he wants Scott gone. If anything, He want's Scott to be more involved in the fight against evil. He wants him to remember his roots. He wants him to be a part of New genesis. He want's him to take on more power and responsibility.

Plus, idk I'm projecting but it's almost giving: "hey the family misses you, please call/visit more" to me at least.

JLA/I ('90)

My heart is aching look at this! Called him his brother, gave a beautiful eulogy, joined the JLA in his memory. It's wild how the writing in this arc went wildly back and forth between quality and pure nonsense 😭

JLA ('98) - #24

This is how you do clunky exposition about who tf these characters even are showing up in this title all of a sudden.

Is it perfect? No.

But it's still a heart to heart desire to understand. Underline everyone's characters and central motivation. Boom. We're in and we're out. Back to the Justice League.

MM Vol 3 (1996)

Okay, so weirdly aggressive, right???

But, not quite, it was indicated that his reaction here was due to Darksied having just been resurrected and was influencing him.

But also take a closer look at what's being said! It wasn't a result of Orion being covetous of Scott's power or even wishing harm on him or anything.

Quite the opposite, in fact. He's telling him he needs to better protect his own life as future king, even if it means sacrificing others.

It's almost giving concern tbh.

Far be it from trying to kill Scott to steal NG from him, even in this ooc moment, he's chastising him to stay safe so he can come into his throne.

Jack Kirby's Fourth World (1997)

We get a fight and Scott gets over whelmed casue he's fucking around. Barda is lowkey laughing at him. But what does Orion do?

Dude Pops off. Pops off so hard everyone is concerned.

And then this happens:

Look! He struck Scott! Tom King is a genius! haters btfo.....

But wait. this was actually how it was revealed that Orion was possessed by DeSaad, because this was so wildly out of character for him!

Literally this action, that Orion-haters seem to think is like their mundane default character interaction, was so off-putting and out of character to all the other New Gods that they immediately knew something was very wrong. And it was. He was possessed!

lol gross...

But what about when he's back in his mind again? Well...

(idk who's serving more cunt in this tbh)

And here not for the last time we se Orion supporting the idea of Scott as the ruler of Apokolips.

Orion ('01)

(d...did scott do blackface in this cosplay??? lol)

This is the classic. We all know it. We all love it.

Look at Scott meddling in his life. You're fucking up pretty bad when the "god of freedom" has to step in to stop you.

Also the contrast between their actions when dealing with Sirius is better than any hackney fist fight or argument.

And how interesting is it that Scott's unwillingness to kill isn't treated as admirable and pure in contrast to Orion's evil-bad violence.

Nope. He was a kid. He wasn't strong enough yet to do what had to be done. And IIRC it was to do with what he'd just gone through with the emergence of the anti-life equation. But Orion was! And Orion was the one to finally put the poor soul out of him misery.

I like in particular the way they are portrayed as the "god of war" and the "god of freedom" and how the way this is explored isn't a black and white dichotomy. Scott recognizes Orion is absolutely needed to oppose Darkseid. And the way the two of them are working behind the scenes to protect and help each other repeatedly is so perfect.

And the way Orion decides not to kill Metron to protect scott not because it's wrong or whatever but because time travel could prevent anyone else from following the same bread crumbs and coming to the same conclusions is so funny.

But he was fully ready to kill Metron to save the weird little circus man.

But yeah I think its very telling that at the end of this character arc, Orion, in coming to terms with himself, must come to terms with Scott and their respective places in the world.

I just think it's cool that they each saved each other's life twice in this series. Scott prevented Orion form falling too far with his black racer gambit. And reminding him of his purpose. And Orion Saves Scott from the parademons and Metron.

I can only dream of the paradise we'd be living in if this characterization continued on into the future.

Cherish it. It's all down hill from here...

Death of the New Gods ('05)

Okay so this series isn't great, but at least it's consistent with how these two interreact with each other and kind of keeps to Simonson's continuity... kind of.

Orion aggressively defends Scott’s claim yet again. He looked like he was gonna deck Clark when he suggested Scott was not fit. I’m talking bolded, italicized and pt.18 font text when he first suggested it. "WHAT?" He "begrudgingly" admits Scott's not "currently" fit. But still declines that position for himself.

And the two of them discussing the fate of their people like this almost harkens back to '86 with the co-ruling.

This story is weird, with the worst interpretation of the Anti-Life Equation I've seen. And I'd argue both are ooc in general, but even in this slopy story there is no succession crisis. and they are working together:

(lol at his face here. The bois are trying to discuss their family business and clark is just standing there gobsmaked. rude tbh...)

And here is Orion saving his ass again for good measure:

I hit my picture limit, but Scott goes on to try to kill Orion and Clark later in this series.

Up to this point. Orion might have shoved Scott once or twice in weird circumstances but Scott was the only one who seemed to actually make an actual attempt on his life. Which is why the post reboot characterization is so freaking weird to me.

Tom Kings MM (2017)

(This is where it officially falls apart)

Cliché toxic masculinity abusive stepbrother who exists only to make Scott an even bigger victim. Steals the throne, is weirdly aggressive and abusive for no fucking reason. Tries to kill him in jealousy, etc, etc.

And unfortunately this has seemingly become Orion's standard characterization in the minds of most fans.

(Now, in those post-n52 reboot GL books (sorry tbh I don't feel like tracking them down rn) he's not AS bad as he was in the WW and Tom King MM, but he's still portrayed as being far less intelligent and articulate for some reason??? The idea that he's the dumb jock of the NG and not basically a warrior poet. It's better to go more himbo than violent monster I guess but it's still a far cry from his proper characterization.) I wonder if it had to do with his awful portrayal in that Wonder Woman run??? Idk.

... Jack Kirby didn't deserve this.

DCeased(?)

Ripping off Tom king directly. I'm not just saying that since I don't like the characterization. I'm saying this because they ripped this stupid fucking scene off beat-for-beat, Seriously, Tom King should sue this dude for plagiarism.

And like a game of telephone their characters keep getting mangled more and more. This is the writing equivalent of a bad photo copy of a bad photocopy.

I just gotta pray it stops here and we can get back to a normal dynamic for these two again. But this story's existence doesn't bode well.

MM (2021)

Orion and Shilo seem to be on good terms! He still doesn’t speak right but it’s still an improvement!

Buuuut, no relationship or character interaction with Scott and Barda's daughter at all??? Like that's the main antagonist (for some fucking reason) and they just say nothing to each other? ok sure why not at this point.

Like that's High Father's granddaughter!

Highfather is probably the cornerstone of Orion's identity. Even if you don't consider Scott and Orion to be brothers, she's still his family through HF.

Anyway, I just wanted to add at the end here that I find some of the fans (and writer's) continuous characterization of Scott as the loser wife guy and a massive victim all the time, and Orion the violent psycho, who is power-hungry and ambitious is lame and sucks.

And just to be a little biased. I think the dynamic from 50 years ago is better and more relevant to people today than the MM '17 version.

Think about it. There are more blended and mixed families than ever. Awkward and somewhat distant step-brother is so much more compelling and interesting than the chirst vs. anti-christ thing they keep doing.

“What Is It They’ve Sent Us?” “Hope.”

Barda '24

This book seems to be getting us back on track from what I've been able to see so far! I've been unable to get my hands on it yet but everything I've seen and heard about it is really exciting for me as a fan. I'm both excited and fearful to see what comes next!!!

[deanseths]

They obviously can’t use the Shield with Roman being gone. You are right, i would have agreed with you on everything if it wasn’t for DA sitting on that damn chair during the commercial. If they had continued with the show after his match i would have said he’s done. But they did this strange thing there and it just has to mean something.

Also i still believe WWE never even thought about the fans rejecting the current DA character. They thought they had a money feud yet everything went wrong. Once they realized it, it literally was too late. How do you revive a dead character? You start all over again. And what better way to get fans invested into a character again if this character could be taken away from us. Sort similar with the RR situation. People only seem to care nowadays if someone is taken from you

I just don’t want him gone :(

Another thing John Cena posted a John Moxley pic on his Insta. Why would he do this? Fans now will google this man. So how about this: maybe DA really leaves, but Jon Moxley arrives after WM? That would be a swerve….

hey buddy, i don’t wan’t to crush anyone’s dreams & wishes, and i don’t want to sound negative to y’all (on the contrary i admire who keeps their hopes high despite everything), but i really don’t believe it’s a work, and i believe even less that they would book him as jon moxley, since the first thing they did with him was to switch his old gimmick down as much as possible from ambrose. idk, i’m probably so upset by the way everything went downhill lately that the only thing concerning me at the moment is dean being happy with his decision, whatever it is, because eventually wwe managed to ruin everything that made me a fan of the company.

if i had to tell you what i want right now, it’s him unexpectedly coming out at mania, turning face to help seth to win the title, hugging his boy in tears and saying goodbye. i know it won’t happen, but a girl can dream. i think it would be the best closure for him and seth, for the shield in general and for us all; and as a fan, i’ll be relieved to know he’ll be out of that clusterfuck at least for a while, despite it hurts so much. i mean, it has not to be necessarily forever, but he’d be probably the most coveted free agent after kenny omega atm so he could capitalise from this opportunity and then come back later with a huge pop, and this time on his own conditions. and it would be a (deserved) cold shower for the company, because unlike eric bishoff I don’t think everyone is replaceable, and i’m sure they’ll gonna regret not treating him fairly when they could have.

and now i can’t wait until monday to hear the crowd scream for him. as he deserved for this whole time.