#you need save seed from 20-50 kale plants to maintain a variety

[turtlesandfrogs]

Are Heirloom varieties inbred?

I got this question recently on one of the gardening forums I frequent, and I thought it was a really interesting question, so I thought I'd post it, and my response here.

"... I wanted to ask you specifically, what do you think of "heirloom" plants? I was excited to collect a few different varieties through plant swaps and seed organizations. However, I've become slightly concerned when I realized that heirloom plants are, by default, highly inbred. Should this be considered a problem in plants? If I grow them, should I keep them separate or allow them to cross-pollinate?"

And my response, expanded a bit:

Well, here's the thing, they shouldn't be highly inbred, which is one reason to get them from a reputable source. When you're saving seeds from heirlooms or open pollinated varieties, you should be selecting from enough plants to maintain a good amount of genetic diversity. I think this is sometimes overlooked when people first start saving seeds, but you should be planting and growing out enough plants that you can select for the characteristics that matter most to you, and among that population still have more than enough to carry on genetic diversity. Of course sometimes bottlenecks will happen, and more than one variety has been saved from extinction by a singular plant, but that's far from ideal.

That genetic diversity is why heirloom and open pollinated plants have more variability than hybrid plants, and it's part of why they are adaptable- they have enough variability in their genetics that each strain is going to be slightly different because of the conditions in which they were grown. Combine that with plant's awesome use of inheritable epigenetic, and if you save seeds, plants will adapt incredibly quickly to your own gardening conditions.

Further, when you're selecting plants to save seed from, you should be selecting for health and vigor along with other variety-specific traits. Keep in mind that each heirloom or open pollinated variety is under going evolution- your job as a seed saver is to select for plants that meet the description of the variety while being as healthy (and productive) as possible.

If you cross heirloom varieties, you are just making your own hybridization, but since the varieties you're crossing aren't highly inbred (unlike how they do it commercially to make hybrids), you're going to have a wild mix of outcomes- which isn't necessarily a bad thing! That's how new varieties are created. You cross two or more types that have traits that you like, and try to select plants that have the best combination of traits, and you repeat that for several generations. You could make your own landrace variety by allowing all your heirloom/op varieties to interbreed, and then selecting the best plants down over the generations.

And of course, some plants are inbreeders and don't really suffer from inbreeding depression the way corn- or the Spanish royal family-might. Peas are a good example of what plant breeders call an inbreeder. They pollinate themselves, and you have to interfere if you want to get a pea plant to pollinate with another one. You could save seed from 5 to 10 plants every year for generations, and you wouldn't see much inbreeding depression. If you tried that with corn, well, you'd see the (negative) results very quickly.

A great book on this topic is 'Breeding your own Vegetable Varieties' by Carole Deppe, highly recommend checking it out. Also, here's a link to a seed saving chart with population sizes for different varieties: https://www.communityseednetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/SS-Seed-Saving-Chart-English.pdf And this is another very informative pdf: https://seedalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/seed_saving_guide.pdf

[sodifferentfromthis]

How Organic Horticulture Can Help You Thrive And Survive

You could feel that the subject of gardening is a little bit difficult, yet the reality is that you will have not a problem discovering all of the information as well as skills needed to prosper. Fortunately, you have uncovered this post. It needs to offer you with all the assistance you need to enhance your cultivation abilities as well as self-confidence, so that your initiatives will certainly yield a productive and also stunning garden.The very first thing you can do to avoid insects is to begin with healthy and balanced dirt in your garden. Healthy and balanced plants are naturally more durable versus insects and also disease. To enhance your garden's chance of creating solid as well as healthy and balanced plants, utilize top quality dirt consisting of minuscule amounts of chemicals, which will eventually gather salts.Plants that climb can conceal fencings and also walls. Many climbers can cover the wall or fence as low as one expanding season. Climbers can likewise be trained to expand and cover an arbor, and also they will expand through or around existing trees and also shrubs. There are those that need to be taken care of to an assistance, but others will certainly find a surface area to hold on to all on their very own via twining stems or tendrils. Wisteria, jasmine, honeysuckle, clematis and some increased varieties ready options for climbers.For a garden that prospers, choose the ideal kind of soil. Reliant on the kind of plants you are selecting for the yard, the soil may not be best for them. It could take place where one man-made area is marked to have just one type of soil.When you are tending your garden in the loss, get on the alert for stink insects. They thrive on fruits, citrus, peppers and also different beans. If left unchecked, they can cause substantial damages in your garden, so make prepare for just how to safeguard your plants from these pests.When the autumn period techniques, you have to prepare to plant your preferred autumn veggies as well as other edibles. Why not plant lettuce and also kale inside a hollowed-out pumpkin? Initially, removed the pumpkin's leading layer and remove the seeds. Then, spray some Wilt-Pruf on the ins to prevent the rot that would adhere to otherwise. When this is completed, you are now all set to plant.As the climate transforms cooler, it is vital to prepare your sensitive bushes for the modification.

If the temperature level drops listed below 50 degrees, you need to think about shielding them, specifically if they do best in warm environments. Join them together on top, and utilize a covering or old sheet to cover them. This technique is liked to wrapping a plant in plastic, because it advertises blood circulation as well as protects against rotting.You have to be clever when it pertains to watering your garden. Use a soaker hose to save time to ensure that you do not need to water each plant separately with a hose pipe nozzle, or a watering can that should be filled up consistently. Prevent damage to brand-new plantings by keeping the water on reduced to relocate the water slowly through the soaker. Enable it to water your plants for a pair of hrs, so that you are cost-free to do other things.The heat of the day could make vegetables soft, making them a lot more vulnerable to harm as you choose them. Be specific that you cut chosen veggies right off from the creeping plant itself as well as not by twisting them off, since you do not wish to harm the plant.Aspirin water has disease-prevention homes that could secure plants. Attempt liquifying around one and also one fifty percent pains killers right into around 2 gallons of water for your plants. All you require to do is spray the plants with the option in order to battle usual conditions. Provide your plants a spray of the aspirin-water mixture concerning once every 3 weeks.Use roughly 2 or 3 inches of natural, organic product as some compost in each and every single flower bed. This is a simple technique of discouraging weeds, maintaining moisture, and also adding exceptional nutrients right into the garden. Compost additionally finishes your garden, offering it a finished appearance.Pine can make for a wonderful sort of mulch. There are some plants that prosper in acidic soil. For such plants, ache needles operate both as a handy compost and also as a dirt amendment to reduce the pH. Sprinkle the yearn needles over your beds. As the needles decompose, they contribute to the acid level in the soil.Increase the worth of your home or business! When you landscape, you could obtain among the highest returns. You could increase your house value as much as 20 percent! Plants that are low in moisture and match your setting are a great investment.Try utilizing without treatment rock, brick, or wood to develop a raised bed. If you pick to utilize wood, make sure that it's neglected which

it can withstand decaying. Some excellent timbers are locust, cedar and cypress. In order to avoid hazardous compounds from entering into the ground as well as possibly right into your veggies, avoid using treated timber to enclose or demarcate various sections of your veggie garden. If you must make use of treated timber, produce a barrier, such as with plastic sheet.Now that wasn't as dreadful as you thought it would be, right? Just like any variety of subjects, a lot has been composed when it come to cultivation, and also as a result a large amount of suggestions is offered. You could need to recognize simply how you can start. Hopefully, this article will certainly serve that function and also set you on http://www.hgtv.com/design/topics/gardening the path to a stunning garden. www.doctorgardening.com

[turtlesandfrogs]

Planning for seed saving

I find that there’s not a lot of talk about how large a population you need when people do talk about seed saving. I think it’s a lot bigger than most people expect, especially for out-crossers like broccoli and corn. On top of that, if you want to be growing something different than your neighbors (or say, want to save broccoli seed when a lot of people let kale go to seed around you), you need to consider isolation distances. Let’s look at population size first.

Did you know that if you want to maintain the health and vigor of a particular kale variety, you need to grow out 20 to 50 plants? For long term genetic preservation, you need more than 80. For most suburban gardeners, that’s a lot! Not all plants need this many- but a lot of plants that are pollenated by the wind or insects do. On the other end, we have self-pollinating species, like lettuce, peas, and beans. For them, you only need to save seed from 5 to 10 plants to maintain a variety- which is much more manageable in a suburban garden.

Then, you have to consider isolation distance- and whether it’s even possible where you live. Isolation distance is basically how far apart two varieties need to be to prevent cross pollination. For example, if you had two different varieties of broccoli that you wanted to save seed from, they’d need to be separated by 800 feet to half a mile- which is pretty difficult in the suburbs. Especially once you consider that if someone else’s broccoli, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, or non-Siberian kale is flowering at the same time as your crop, there will be cross pollination if they’re within that distance (Siberian kale is actually a different species- same genus though).

Now, I want to save some Siberian kale seed, and I know that someone, who is less than half a mile from me always has a patch of Red Russian (a type of Siberian kale) that goes to seed. This has an upside, and a downside. The upside is a larger population and more genetic diversity- which, since kale is an outcrossed, should yield more vigorous plants. The downside is that I don’t know what, if any, intentional selection is going on with that patch of kale. I’ll be selecting for winter hardiness, tastiness, vigor, and pest resistance, but maybe they’re selecting for the ability to grow in crowded conditions, or being able to survive in a chicken run for 3 months. If I were growing a fussier plant, like Brussels sprouts, this might be enough to dissuade me from saving seeds, but since kale is such a hardy, unrefined plant anyway, I don’t think it will be a problem.

Where it becomes more of an issue is with pumpkins and squash. And that’s because there’s three (or four) different species that all have varieties called ‘pumpkin’ or ‘squash’. Did you know that zucchini and Delicata are the same species as the New England Sugar Pie pumpkin? Or that Kabocha, Banana, and Hubbard are all the same species? Fortunately, though they have a large isolation distance (because bumble bees love them), their population size is small (5 to 10 to maintain a variety), and it’s easy to tape close blossoms before they open and then hand pollinate.

If I were growing corn, it would be again, another consideration, because they are a) wind pollenated, b) need a very big population size, and c) if sweet corn pollenates popcorn, there'll be some issues. I'll probably keep buying corn seed.

I’m not trying to scare you off of saving your own seeds, I just want you to think about what you’ll need to do to maintain varieties. Here are a few resources that will help you do that:

https://www.communityseednetwork.org/resources/

Click to access SS-Seed-Saving-Chart-English.pdf

https://www.llojibwe.org/drm/greenteam/seedsaving.html

I also think people who maintain or develop new varieties are awesome, and here's some of my favorite seed sources:

Uprising Organics

Fedco Seeds

Territorial

West Coast Seeds

Johnny's