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aetherschreiber · 5 years ago

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The Cycle of Fandom

I am an early Millennial. As a 1982 baby, I literally came of age in the year 2000. A lot of hay has been made about how my generation does things differently from our parents. And by now, plenty of it has been made about why, as well. I won’t rehash the talking points, but it comes down to how much things changed in our formative years. Our parents went from vinyl to 8-tracks. We went from cassette tapes to CDs to MP3 players to streaming over our phones. That’s a lot to have to adapt to and as a result adapting is just what we do.

But when it comes to fandom, the human condition really hasn’t changed that much. People like things and when they like things they obsess, collect, analyze, and sadly they eventually eventually gate-keep.

Now, let me preface all of this by saying that I don’t really have any citations for any of this. But, as someone who was thoroughly raised in fandom, I also have a tendency to get hooked on things a lot of my generation would scoff at for being old. I love the original Lost in Space and Man from UNCLE, the very first Mobile Suit Gundam is my favorite, I’m fascinated by the puppetry in Thunderbirds, and I’m a complete sucker for just about anything with Cary Grant. I will binge-watch classic Doctor Who as much as I will the new stuff and love every moment of each for what it is.

For most Millennials, this isn’t the case, for whatever reason. It’s neither a good thing nor a bad thing. It just is. Most folks in my generation have heavy nostalgia for the 80s at the oldest and just don’t really concern themselves with very much from before that. It’s not that they don’t have an appreciation, but they don’t have the resulting fangirl crush I have on David McCallum that I will commiserate with my mother about (Illya Kuryakin is an adorable badass and I will die on that hill).

I like to think that this has given me a bit of a unique view on fandom, in general. I participate in some older fandoms, where things move a bit more slowly and where the average age is usually at least one generation removed from me and therefore a bit wiser in a lot of ways. They’ve just sort of... already covered this ground, so to speak.

The difference is the pace at which they did it. But the cycle is the same.

It’s never anything that starts maliciously. No fan I know of has ever set out to point-blank keep someone else from liking the thing. Rather it starts with a sense of seniority. “You like this thing, now, too? Great! I was there for the beginning and let me tell you, back then...” It’s always like a fandom big sibling who wants to show their younger counterpart the ropes; get them proper caught-up and versed in the lore so that they can better participate.

I love fandom when it’s at this stage and it’s the type of fan I strive to be at all times. I don’t like setting conditions for fandom. I think it’s partly because I am such a late-comer to so many. The idea of being a fan of something that was made 30 years or more before you were born is a hell of a thing, but I’ve never let that stop me. And for the most part, these fandoms that are much older than I am have reached the point where they are welcoming and just sort of stuck in the big sibling stage. Sure, you have the occasional troll, the guy that scoffs that I can’t understand because I wasn’t there at the very beginning. But they’re usually slapped to the ground pretty quickly by everyone else.

There is the occasional exception, of course. But one of the things those such fandoms have in common is that there is still new content being made for it. Doctor Who is a prime example, as is Star Trek, Star Wars, and Lord of the Rings (yes, I do count the upcoming Amazon series and other non-book content as new content, deal with it). There’s something about new content being made for a fandom that causes an odd anxiety that thing that the fandom loves is going to be somehow ruined.

I’m going to use Doctor Who as an example for a lot of this. The show turned 56 years old this last November. 56 years! And the fact that it had a couple of decade-long breaks in there, which were themselves only separated by a single two-hour movie, only serve to highlight the changes it went through.

My second-oldest memory is of Doctor Who. I remember the regeneration from Tom Baker to Peter Davison. Now, Whovian historians, before you freak out because that change-over happened in 1981, before I was even born, remember that back then the US got episodes around two and three years later than the BBC, in syndication on public television channels. So for me, that change happened when I was two. I remember there being some Big Thing (tm) that my dad was anticipating. I remember the burgundy and red outfit that Tom Baker was wearing while laying stricken on the ground, surrounded by his companions. And I remember him suddenly turning into a blond and sitting up, wide-eyed and mystified. I didn’t understand any of it at the time, of course. And so I also remember turning to my dad, who was watching with excitement, while the credits were rolling and asking why the man turned into another man. Oddly, that’s where the memory ends. I don’t remember the response. In fact, it’s only having since seen that episode as an adult that I have been able to identify it for what it was.

After that, I don’t have much in the way of Doctor Who related memories until the Paul McGann movie in 1996. I was 14 and not well-steeped in Whovian lore at the time and I thought it was great. My dad was more luke-warm to it because it just wasn’t the same as what he grew up with. It was a sentiment shared by many, unfortunately, which meant that Paul McGann’s wonderful take on the Doctor was relegated purely to audio adventures until the 50th anniversary in 2013. Sadly, in the early days of the internet, those of us who liked it weren’t quite able to find each other yet. In the days of Usenet and mailing lists, it was still only the most hardcore fans of a thing who got together to geek out. Meaning that most of the conversation was “oh, that’s all wrong.” Lurking in those conversations, I saw pretty much every tremulous young person who dared to say that they liked it get slapped to the ground and told they weren’t a fan of “the real thing.”

Gate-keeping. It’s nothing new. And in 1996 Doctor Who fandom ran smack into its pad-locked closed barrier. Around that same time other old but still active fandoms were starting to manifest the same thing on the internet. It was when Trekkies suddenly separated into Trekkies (who had seen the original as it aired) and Trekkers (who came long later), for reasons I have never understood.

No, that’s not true. I understand it. Us humans tend to get possessive about our stories. We have a sort of emotional ownership to them, even if not a legal one. And when you feel an ownership of something, there is an instinct to protect it, keep it pure. And to do that, it’s natural to try to set oneself up as an authority on the subject.

It took another decade for Doctor Who to come off the shelf again, in 2005. I was 24 by then, the age that marketers tend to target. A friend got his hands on a digi-copy of Christopher Eccleston’s first episode, “Rose,” that had been leaked to the internet in its entirety about a week before it actually aired. We watched it before our D&D group met and I was instantly hooked. And the friend that was responsible for the new addiction was only too happy to have new fandom friends.

The pendulum had swung. Gate-keeping was out and welcoming people to the fandom was the MO. Of course, there were and still are to this day old school Whovians who deny that anything past Sylvester McCoy exists, calling the 1996 movie and the current series a different show entirely. There will always be those people. But for the most part, Whovians welcomed new fans with open arms throughout all of Eccleston’s and David Tennant’s runs.

Now, that one cycle, from welcoming to gate-keeping, and back to welcoming, took 42 years. Most things don’t last anywhere close to that long. A show might be on for five years or a movie and its sequels be around for ten and after that, for the most part, it’s done. And in the pre-internet age of fandom, the pendulum swung slowly enough never to hit a repeat in the cycle.

The internet has sped up everything about fandom. The airing of just about any show in any country might as well be a world-wide premiere these days because it all just travels that quickly. It has to if it wants to maintain any sort of surprise in its story lines, otherwise internet chatter will spoil it. These days, things move so fast that even the few hours between an episode of Doctor Who airing in the UK and in the US is enough that one can be subjected to spoilers. And the swing of the fandom pendulum has sped up accordingly.

For Doctor Who, it started swinging back again when David Tennant left the show and Matt Smith took over. Tennant’s Doctor had a lot of fans who desperately didn’t want “their Doctor” to leave, many of whom took to the internet, swearing off the show. They said it would never be as good because David Tennant was just the best Doctor ever. By then, there were a number of us Millennial Whovians who had dug into the lore and were comfortable with the concept of regeneration as a part of it. After all, it had already happened nine times. And there was a bit of a tendency to call those people who swore off Matt Smith’s episodes as being fans not of Doctor Who but of David Tennant. Meanwhile, of course, old school Whovians were patting us all on the head going “aren’t you cute. Now you understand why Tom Baker leaving was such a thing.”

And so, the pendulum started to swing back. You started having people call other people “not really fans of Doctor Who.” That only got worse when Peter Capaldi took over and there was a significant portion of the fandom upset that the Doctor was now an older guy instead of the 30-something Doctors we had grown accustomed to.

Gate-keeping reared its ugly head for most of Capaldi’s run and, sadly, I think that kept a lot of people from the fandom and from really appreciating the 12th Doctor. That cycle has started to swing back with Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor, but the gate-keeping is in a stage where it is desperate to hold on to what Doctor Who was when they became fans and therefore is very toxic right now. It’s not pretty. But those asshats are starting to be slapped to the ground on social media thanks to a new influx of fans who are now once again more comfortable with the idea of regeneration and its possibilities.

Similar swings are happening with many other fandoms. The Star Wars fandom is a really ugly place right now, quite frankly. Star Trek seems to be on the welcoming end. There are always the exceptions to every generalization, of course. There will always be “that guy” in fandom.

This swing has always existed. Millennials are just the first generation for whom it has swung multiple times in the life of the show. The internet is probably the biggest contributing factor to that. What that means is that we’re the first generation to really have the chance to see the pattern for what it is. A few of us have even been able to extrapolate back and understand that, no, this is how it always has been, just slower.

The hopeful part of that is this; by virtue of being the first to recognize the pattern, we are the first ones with the opportunity to learn from that history. And now we’re starting to see fandoms that actively abhor gate-keeping and just want more people to come in and play. But those tend to be very young fandoms.

The one that comes to mind for me is Critical Role. This is a fandom that was wholly born on the internet, as the series is streamed live on Twitch. It’s really unlike anything that has ever had a fandom this size before. It’s only been around for four years or so. But the cast is on its second D&D campaign which means it’s already had the opportunity to have the elitism gate that could be closed. But something different seems to have happened. The very moment that people started saying “I’m a real fan because I watched the Vox Machina campaign, not just the Mighty Nein,” they were told to shut the hell up and let people like things. A foot was stuck into the gate and wrenched it back open before it could close. And you know what? The fandom has absolutely exploded in the last two years. And I have yet to run into a single instance of someone gate-keeping for it that didn’t get an overwhelming and harsh rebuttal from the folks who welcome people to the fandom.

Sadly, the Critical Role fandom is distinct from the Dungeons & Dragons fandom on this point. But therein lies the difference. D&D is over 45 years old, ten times and more the age of Critical Role. And the “satanic panic” over it in the 80s made a lot of D&D players very protective of the hobby, only amplifying that. The age of your average Critter is only mid-to-late 20s or so. At 37, I’m a little bit of an outlier, I have found. The Critter fandom is big on TikTok which I... don’t grock, frankly, because I’m turning into an old fart. But I’ve never, ever, been made to feel unwelcome because of that difference. It’s been a refreshing experience, frankly.

In contrast, I really feel like I’m only now starting to be considered a “true Whovian” by the old school Whovians. It took me 15 years and required me getting hooked on the classic stuff (which I was all too happy to do). People who have never seen any of the classic stuff and don’t care to are often still looked down upon. That needs to change.

The Critical Role fandom is still young and all of this may prove to be overly-optimistic in the end. But I think it has the opportunity to be the first big fandom not to go through the gate-keeping cycle. I sincerely hope we can hold on to that. The cast and crew are a big part of that, with how they always hammer on the idea of inclusivity and engage so directly with the fandom. “Don’t forget to love each other” is Matt Mercer’s sign-off at the end of every episode and serves as a constant reminder. And if more casts and crews of more fandoms do that sort of engaging in the future, it will help break the cycle of fandom gate-keeping all the more thoroughly. This is a fact that production companies are starting to awaken to as Millennials, comfortable with social media, age into positions of authority.

So, welcome people in, gate-keep, almost cause the whole thing to collapse, repeat. That’s the cycle that fandom has engaged in for three generations and more. But I think we’re on the cusp of breaking that cycle, for the most part. The idea that you can be a fan of something without knowing absolutely everything about it has been gaining very visible traction in the last five years or so and it is wonderful to see.

Now, please, people. Don’t prove me wrong.

#fandom #Doctor Who #Critical Role #social observations #gatekeeping #toxic fandom

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getoffthesoapbox · 7 years ago

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[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - Luke & Leia

Luke’s abiding love for Leia was always one of the highlights of the original trilogy for me, and The Last Jedi honors it in the best way.

This is the sixth post in my Star Wars The Last Jedi First Impressions series. The list of the topics this series covers, including links to the previous posts, is included below:

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - A Flawed Triumph

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - The Thematic Heart

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - Finn & Rose

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - Luke & Rey

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - Luke & Kylo

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - Luke & Leia ← we are here

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - Rey’s Trajectory

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - Kylo’s Trajectory

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - Rey & Kylo

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - The Romantic Heart

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - Misleading Love Polygons

[SW:TLJ] First Impressions - Schrödinger's Futures

This behemoth grew to an impressive size despite my best efforts. =P

Before I dig into Luke and Leia, I wanted to nitpick a few things about Rian’s choices for Leia in particular (and Luke by extension). I already picked at my issues with Luke’s trajectory in my last post, so I won’t rehash that again here, but I also have issues with Leia and I’d prefer to get them out first rather than ruin a good ending (because there really is so much to love about Luke and Leia in this film). ;)

As with Luke, I love Leia’s general character development in this film. We see the heavy toll the loss of Han has taken on her--she’s no longer able to bear the weight of all the deaths around her. Han’s death changed something fundamental for her, and now she’s struggling under the burden of having to lose promising young lives and old friends. She’s clearly starting to wonder what the point of it all is and if it’s even worth it--what has she been fighting for all this time? Toward the end of the film, she even loses hope for the first time in her life--this too seems realistic to me in light of the destruction of her family and her life’s work. All her interactions with her resistance members are perfect, and the ending between her and Rey hits all the right notes.

One of my complaints with Leia in this trilogy is how passive she is about her son, who clearly places her above his father and uncle in his regard. Why is she still prioritizing the resistance rather than hunting her boy down and helping him come home? If she regrets losing him to Snoke, why is she not fighting for him? This is one of Leia’s deepest character flaws--she places her duties as a mother below her duties to the “greater good,” even when her duties as a mother were vital to ensuring the greater good. Both TFA and TLJ miss out on a great opportunity to show the greater ramifications of “small choices” like caring for your children--if you care for your children and are involved with their lives, they generally don’t go running off to join terrorist organizations in order to get your attention. This was a lesson Han seems to recognize at the end of his own journey in TFA, but too late to make a difference--had he chosen to be the parent his son needed, perhaps his son would have had a stronger framework from which to fight against his darker impulses.

So with the Leia Poppins sequence (which is an abysmal bit of filmmaking but I won’t burn your ears with my complaints), we find out Leia is clearly powerful in the force. If this is so, and given the reality that the resistance is losing badly and she knows her son is on the enemy’s side in the final sequence, why on earth is she not the one to walk out in the end sequence to face her son and buy the resistance some time to escape? I know Rian wanted this to be Luke’s film, but it honestly makes no sense that Luke is the one who does this--it should have been Leia! If her resistance members are so much more important to her than her son, she should have walked out there and taken the bullets for them from him. Why is she unwilling to face her son and put her own life on the line? Honestly, if she’d been the one who walked out there alone, as far as I’m concerned Kylo would have immediately buckled. The boy has no spine when it comes to his mommy. All she had to do was get out there and tell him to get his rear end down there right now like mother with good sense. He’d obey lickety split, and Hux would probably facepalm, and they could have at least worked out a ceasefire if nothing else.

At the very least, I think it would have been better for Leia’s character if Leia had attempted to do this, and then perhaps have Luke stop her (that way she can be saved for the pivotal third film, which is what I know Rian and JJ wanted, because nothing beats a mother’s love). I can’t believe this got through the story group, but whatever. So many head scratchers got through the story group that at this point I can only throw my hands in the air in exasperation and wonder why they even have such a group at all.

All this being said, my complaints about Leia didn’t detract from my sheer enjoyment of Luke and Leia’s trajectory, which I felt truly matched the original trilogy’s natural trajectory just as well as Han and Leia did in TFA. But before I get into that, I’d like to step back a minute and talk about the original trilogy and my own experience with it.

Luke was one of my first crushes back when I was a kid, though I’ll freely admit I was more a Spock/Prince Phillip kind of girl on the whole. I’ve always been fiercely attached to Arthurian lore, and Luke’s narrative over the course of the three films of the original trilogy has all the hallmarks of the Arthurian tale, with Luke obviously placed in Arthur’s seat. Arthur has always been my favorite character of the original legends (with Mordred coming in a close second, perhaps unsurprisingly given who my favorite character in the sequel trilogy is, fufu), and even when I was a kid I understood clearly that Leia was “Guinevere” and Han was “Lancelot.” As such, even if Lucas hadn’t pulled the sibling reveal, Luke was doomed when it came to Leia. With the sibling reveal, something interesting happens to the Arthurian parallels--Leia becomes the embodiment of two central figures: Guinevere and Morgana. This is an element that makes the ending sequence quite interesting to me, but more on that later.

One thing always struck me in the original films was there was never a clear moment when Luke “got over” Leia. Leia easily accepted Luke as her brother, because in many ways he already was as far as she was concerned; her eyes had been only for Han since the moment she first saw him. When I first saw the original trilogy, I just wrote this off as a “nicer” variant of the Arthurian legend--Luke had to lose, and Lucas was just giving him an easy way out that wouldn’t leave him in tears, especially in the last film. But Vader still tempted him to the dark side by using Leia, even after the sister reveal, and Luke almost succumbed, which always seemed a bit over the top for a normal sibling reaction.

However, my perspective changed when I watched the prequels, many years later. Anakin attaches to Padme the instant he meets her, despite her barely taking notice of him, making clear a pattern which actually had been established by his children in the original trilogy: when Skywalkers “fall,” they fall instantaneously and forever. Anakin for Padme, Leia for Han, and Luke for Leia. Once I saw The Revenge of the Sith, my head canon (I had them even back then, go figure) for Luke solidified into the idea that Luke never “got over” Leia and that if the story had continued, he would eventually have had to separate from her and Han simply because his heart couldn’t take it and he, like Arthur in the legend, had too good a heart to cause trouble for people he loved.

Of course the EU canon didn’t support this, and I never considered myself a Star Wars fan (I’m a TOS Trekkie to the core and before the sequel trilogy would have been on the Trek side of the Star Wars vs. Trek debate XD), so I didn’t really think anything of it all. But when I heard Disney was tossing out the EU canon in the new trilogy, in the back of my mind I wondered if maybe, just maybe, they’d have the same vision for Luke that I did. With TFA, I had the first inkling that this might just be the case--Han and Leia had a clearly mutual, but realistically contentious relationship centered on their own personal friction and the loss of a son (which I loved and thought was spot on perfect for these characters--good on you, JJ), and Luke had “vanished” mysteriously. So far so good.

Along comes TLJ, and bless Rian for what he did with Luke and Leia. For this alone, I’d forgive him any flaw--this most important thing he got right. Luke’s off on the island, refusing to deal with Rey and running from Leia and Kylo, and when he finds out Rey came aboard the Falcon, he sneaks on board to revisit old memories. And R2D2 knows exactly what will move Luke and remind him of his youthful, idealistic self--the image of Leia he fell in love with during ANH. Luke may call it “cheap,” but it works like a charm--he immediately accepts the summons and goes to Rey’s side.

We see three instances in TLJ of what I consider to be the call of the eternal feminine--Rey calls Kylo (who rejects), Rose calls Finn (who accepts), and Leia calls Luke (who accepts). There is a similar thread throughout all of these moments, and that is the undercurrent of romantic tension. Traditionally, the lady giving the call would place her favor upon her chosen knight (and since Star Wars is heavily influenced by Arthurian legend and courtly tales such as Tristan and Isolde, you still see these elements sneak in every now and then even with Lucas gone). The fact that there are only two other calls from the eternal feminine, and that both of them have the romantic undercurrent, confirms for me that Luke still has a small flame in his heart for Leia, though he suppresses it because he’s a good man. Rather than hurting Leia with his feelings, he strives to honor his feelings for her by doing what he can for her.

This is, in my estimation, why there is a tinge of the romantic in their only two scenes in the film. When Luke reconnects to the force for the first time, he awakens Leia from her slumber as their minds connect. She speaks his name, and he speaks hers. It’s a scene that cuts straight to the heart of an original trilogy fan. Arthur returns to his Guinevere/Morgana in this scene, even if only via mental space, and hope arrives with him, giving her the strength to stand up again.

The big moment between them is, of course, when he arrives during Leia’s most desperate hour. Her lost son stands at the gates with all the hounds of hell at his beck and call, and her resistance is on its last legs. Who should arrive at the last hour but Arthur himself--Luke from the shadows, as once he did for Han in Return of the Jedi (great callback, Rian). Arthur has come to save his Queen from Mordred--the darkness he himself unleashed upon the world, though in this story Mordred is not his biological son.

Luke’s and Leia’s first exchange is a mirror of her and Han, but unlike Han, Luke has always had a gentle rather than biting sense of humor. She quietly teases him that she knows what he’s thinking--she changed her hair. Luke reassures her that it looks nice that way, acknowledging her attempt at levity, and then he apologizes from his heart. Leia, who is connected to him, understands immediately that he means it and extends her forgiveness and her love.

Luke announces he’s here to face Kylo. Unlike with Han, Leia doesn’t ask Luke to save her son--she instead mournfully admits she’s afraid he’s lost for good. Luke won’t let it end for her like that; he restores her hope to her when he says that no one is ever really gone--meaning both Kylo and himself. If he can return to her side, so can Kylo.

It’s fitting that she is the last person to see him before he faces his sins, and that he places the token of the man she loves in her hand before he goes--always, always, he acknowledges the love she bears Han and honors her choice. Then he honors his own feelings by placing a beautiful kiss on her forehead--a kiss containing the immortal depth of all forms of love, the parting of a King from his chosen Queen. It is the end of their story, but the beginning of her son’s, and the fight is not over.

Having said his goodbyes to Leia, he embarks to face Kylo. This moment is when the Arthurian legend begun by the original six films--from Anakin’s Uther to Obi Wan’s Merlin to Luke’s Arthur to Han’s Lancelot to Leia’s Guinevere/Morgana--comes full circle and we at last put the Arthurian story to rest in favor of the more traditional fairytale, which is the flavor of Rey’s heroine’s journey and the center of the new trilogy.

Luke as Arthur stands against Kylo, his Mordred. But because this isn’t the end of the tale, he has no intention of killing his Mordred; instead, he will do what he can to plant the seeds for Mordred’s return to the light, and he will journey to Avalon (the force) of his own free will. As in the Arthurian legend, Luke will never be truly gone, and he will always be waiting for the day when he is needed once more. He can lay down his burden, and close the curtain on the tale begun by his father. His Mordred will not die with him; by Luke’s own intention, Kylo will live on and face Rey once more--but this time, hope isn’t dead and Camelot can still rise out of the ashes once more.

Leia takes the gift Luke gives her, and with the renewal of hope burning in her heart, she plans the rebirth of the resistance through their new champion: Rey, the only person left who can take down the final Goliath.

Until next time!

#the last jedi #star wars #the last jedi spoilers #tlj spoilers #lulei #luke skywalker #leia organa

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gossipnetwork-blog · 7 years ago

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When Star Trek Makes You a Star: A Tale of Two Classmates Reaching New Heights With Discovery

New Post has been published on http://gossip.network/when-star-trek-makes-you-a-star-a-tale-of-two-classmates-reaching-new-heights-with-discovery/

When Star Trek Makes You a Star: A Tale of Two Classmates Reaching New Heights With Discovery

Star Trek: Discovery is a tale of two warring parties, the Starfleet Federation and the Klingons, but behind the scenes there’s a tale of two women, friends from acting school, who are now on the journey of a lifetime together. They may be on opposing sides on screen, but Discovery‘s two Marys—Mary Chieffo, who plays the Klingon L’Rell, and Mary Wiseman, Starfleet Cadet Sylvia Tilly on the series—are friends and classmates from Juilliard who have been catapulted to the final frontier, hand-in-hand.

The Star Trek franchise holds a special place in the hearts of millions of fans worldwide. Everyone has their own Star Trek experience in some form or another. For Chieffo, it was the 2009 reboot movie that ignited her desire to check out the original flicks and experience the TV ensembles. Wiseman grew up with the show on her periphery.

“I wasn’t a Trekkie. I kind of saw some of [Star Trek: The Next Generation] growing up. I have an uncle who is very devoted, he reads all the softcover novels and all of that. As a kid, our tree was covered in spaceships from the Federation and elsewhere, but I personally wasn’t super indoctrinated until I started dating my boyfriend, he and his family are very enthusiastic Trekkies,” Wiseman told E! News. “They go to conventions, and they love that whole lifestyle so, so much.”

Star Trek is a lifestyle for many, so the casting and subsequent premiere of Star Trek: Discovery had more eyeballs than your typical new TV show launch. While Wiseman was aware of how much the show meant to people through firsthand experience, Chieffo, an admitted geek, said she wasn’t fully aware of the world she was stepping into while auditioning.

“It’s one of those things—Star Trek, Star Wars—you get a sense that it’s a global phenomenon and it’s so culturally referenced in so many things. So, I had this sense…It wasn’t until we did the Las Vegas convention this summer that I really started to realize how global it is. And then as the show has aired—you can’t quite comprehend it,” Chieffo said with a laugh. “Just how it’s in so many different countries and so many different people are just affected by it and inspired by it…If I had fully understood, I probably would’ve been a lot more nervous with the whole process. In the same way, with Juilliard, I felt like I couldn’t look at the statistics of getting in fully, or fully think about all of that until after the fact.”

Both Chieffo and Wiseman did not take joining the Star Trek universe for granted.

“There’s just a massive amount of material to sift through. It would just take days and days and days to get through it all. I definitely felt pressure to be well versed. My approach was just to do my best and watch the shows that are recommended and points of interest for me and try to be acclimated that way,” Wiseman said. “But yeah, there’s this huge world. It means so much to people, so you really want to feel like you’ve done your due diligence to understand and honor the material.”

CBS

“I don’t take it lightly because I am a geek,” Chieffo said. “I didn’t grow up with Star Trek like other people did, but I have things that I don’t want people to mess with. So I think that letting them know I am an overly enthusiastic geek who wants to do them justice was a big part of my thing.”

Juilliard didn’t necessarily teach the young actors how to handle the attention that would come with joining a series with such a sprawling fandom, but once aboard the starship Discovery (and the Klingon sarcophagus ship), Wiseman and Chieffo had the guidance of their new peers, both off the show, like American Gods star Yetide Badaki, and their costars on the series, including Sonequa Martin-Green, Jason Isaacs and Anthony Rapp.

“The people who took care of me for this Star Trek universe were the other people on the show who are already part of franchises that have deeply committed fans. So Sonequa’s experience with The Walking Dead, and Jason’s experience with Harry Potter, Anthony’s experience with Rent,” Wiseman said. “They were really helpful in trying to prepare me for what this world would look like after the show came out.”

Advice came in the form of “don’t read the comments,” Wiseman said with a laugh. They also told her, “That it can be really moving to meet people who are touched by your work. That can be fuel for the work that you do.”

“One thing Sonequa said was, ‘Now you’re a spokesperson for yourself in a way,’ and that’s sort of a paradigm shift from being a private citizen to having to stand behind your work in front of hundreds of thousands of people,” Wiseman added.

Chieffo, whose parents are actors Beth Grant and Michael Chieffo, said in addition to her costars, she picked the brains of her family friends. “I felt like everyone who had experience with it was very open and willing to talk. I also found there were some friends of my parents who had been part of Trek in various forms, and they were more than willing to give their two cents and just kind of acknowledge that it’s this large family,” she said. “I mean, I ran into some of them at the Las Vegas convention, so it is just like one big crazy family.”

And Chieffo and Wiseman had each other.

The two actors were both part of Group 44 at Juilliard. The pair graduated two years ago after appearing in productions where they portrayed sisters and mother and daughter. Neither had any idea the other was cast in Star Trek: Discovery until it was announced by CBS, but once reunited, their shared experience has become a defining one. Chieffo said they were able to decompress about their shared experience at school and grow closer as a result.

“It really has got us together in a such a beautiful new way…And then because it’s such a specific experience with this, with the fandom, with the franchise, and being able to—it’s great to be able to text someone and be like, ‘My outfit [for an event] looks terrible!’…I played Mrs. Webb, I played her mom, in Our Town, we played sisters…I think what’s cool is there’s a sisterly, motherly thing on both sides,” Chieffo said. “I think we’re able to take care of each other at the right time, like when the other person needs it. All of that, which had kind of happened in small moments at school, has just happened more and more here.”

“To get to do something so big and so new with someone who was a friend and someone who I feel like I knew so well, it was just a gift,” Wiseman said. “How often do you get to go through big, scary, exciting experiences in your life with someone who you love and trust like that? It was just incredibly helpful and incredibly grounding. We were able to process our big overwhelming feelings with each other. We haven’t had a scene together, but I feel like we were hand-in-hand through this the whole time, which was so cool. We get to see each other’s journeys in a way that’s meaningful to us.”

Chieffo said watching Wiseman develop the character of Tilly, with the “groundedness and intelligence she brings to what on the page could be perceived as a one-dimensional goofy character,” and the writers get to know Wiseman and writing for her has been “very beautiful” and empowered her to embrace the archetype she’s been given.

“I’ve been really proud of the fact that we’re holding our own in separate camps—Federation, Klingon—we’re getting to build our own relationships on set,” Chieefo said, “and yet we have each other to hold each other’s hands when you need to.”

Star Trek: Discovery‘s fall finale airs Sunday, Nov. 12 at 8:30 p.m. on CBS All Access. New episodes resume on Sunday, Jan. 7, 2018.

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