#yes they’re married no its not platonic yes it transcends friendship no it’s not romantic

[scrimblyscrorblo]

[goldenornstein]

My muse in a relationship + Shipping || HCs

How far are they willing to go for the person they love?

Very far.

Ornstein does not take love lightly. He does not see it as a fleeting thing or a whim. It’s a rare and precious sentiment to him, which warrants a great deal of care for the person he loves.

That said, being loved by a powerful and utterly ruthless individual has its dark side.

While he’ll be mindful to treat his beloved one with all gentleness, his actions towards anyone who seems like a threat to them might be frankly cruel, devastating, in an often merciless and definite manner.  

There’s nothing wholesome or romantic about the awful things he’d be more than willing to do in the name of love.

What are their deal breakers?

Infidelity. Big one. Hits a nerve as it confirms his long-lived insecurity concerning being less than worthy of love and care. It’s also a betrayal of trust, which is always a problem in any kind of relationship. He will not forgive it, no second chances, simply because he’d find himself incapable of trusting that person again.

Marriage. For the most part. He swore an oath off marriage at the beginning of his service to Gwyn, as captain of his select knights, and he’s no intention of breaking it. Any relationships must be kept secret and private, or he’ll put an end to them. This does not mean Ornstein will be a lukewarm or selfish lover, though. Furthermore, he might prove to be caring, devoted, faithful and supportive far beyond the average of most proper husbands, without any need for a formal bond or external obligation.

Lack of care, respect or consideration. He doesn’t want to be coddled, at all. Actually, condescension is another big deal-breaker. But he does need to be treated with certain gentleness. He needs affection and occasional reassurance, even emotional support, given his many issues and anxiety. Nothing terribly taxing, but definitely not suited for a tactless, immature or less emotionally invested partner.

Are they a cuddler?

Yes. Ornstein is very fond of physical affection. He enjoys — needs — embraces, caresses and all kinds of tender touches. To him, it’s an important way to show and receive love.

Do they give their partners cute nicknames?

Nope. Ornstein is the kind of guy who uses proper names at all times. No short versions either. He finds the whole lot of it… lazy, in a way. Endearments, on the other hand, are common and used to convey appreciation for certain beloved characteristics or sentiments, always deliberately and heartfelt. 

Do they believe in soul mates?

As in people meant to be romantically involved due to their souls being innately connected in their origin? Absolutely no, given his knowledge on how souls actually work and the fact that there’s plenty of very much non-romantic customs associated to them. Overall, Ornstein would think it’s ignorant and juvenile to reduce souls to a saccharine cliche. If anything, he’d say a true life partnership is formed through mutual understanding, support, trust, etc. as opposed as being a gratuitous metaphysical coincidence of sorts. Nonetheless, he might refer to a particularly beloved partner as someone who’s soul has become linked to his own — granted this could be in a literal way.

Do they tend to sleep better when in bed with their partner?

With a casual partner? No. He’d barely sleep, if at all. With a long-term partner? Yes. Absolutely. He’s a touch starved, cuddly disaster — there’s no other way to say it! He also struggles with insomnia and plenty of nightmares, so having someone there, someone he trust, might help with that.

do they have a type?

Ornstein tends to fall for people who are not like him, one way or another. People with qualities he doesn’t possess, or that he doesn’t think / feel he possess. Provided, he is definitely not opposed to some similarities and common interests, finding it incredibly frustrating when a partner is simply incapable of understanding and keeping up with him, or vice versa. It’s always much better and more significant to him when this compatibility generates from shared experiences over time, though.

In that sense, he doesn’t exactly have a pre-established type, but rather wishes to find a true partner in all senses and matters.

Physically, well, he isn’t fussy at all. Although, he has a reference for muscular and/or more voluptuous physiques.

are they prone to jealousy?

When it comes to committed relationships? Yes. Definitely. A jealousy born from his awful insecurity and abandonment issues. Ornstein is aware of this, though. He’s also aware that this feeling and the behavior it can trigger in him aren’t healthy, or even acceptable. So he will make a great effort to keep it under control, lest he hurts his partner.

Still, he will refrain from getting involved with people who seem prone to infidelity, or even to have many lovers at the same time / over time — even if it’s a consensual practice. Hence, poly-relationships are, for the most part, out of the question. All in the name of his own comfort and mental stability.  Exceptions might apply, but only in a limited fashion and with people he can trust enough to let go of his own anxiety.

Then, actual infidelity towards him is an automatic and irrevocable deal-breaker, with a considerable loss of respect and consideration for the people involved.

If your muse is uncomfortable in a relationship, will they address the problem or keep quiet?

Relevant to all kinds of relationships, platonic or romantic.

And… well, this is a problem. A big, ugly, pitiful, unsympathetic problem.

I’ve talked about similar issues in this post.

Now, the answer to this depends on the timeline. Knight of Gwyn Ornstein will accept an enormous amount of detrimental treatment and lack of consideration towards his person. We’re talking about intimate, deeply significant relationships here, though, otherwise he’s extremely quick to put a hard limit. He feels unlovable, almost unworthy of having someone by his side. This basic self-esteem flaw leads him to either isolate or getting involved in unbalanced relationships with people who aren't the best for him.

Then, in verses where he leaves Anor Londo (even when corrupted by the Abyss) he starts developing a visceral rejection and anger towards this situation. Reasons why Ornstein will not accept siding with Light nor Dark political factions — he’s done with being used and taken for granted, be it for power or just out of lack of love/care/respect for him.

what is your muse’s love language?

Caring for others. Fighting alongside them. Sharing their struggles, victories and defeats. Protecting and helping them. That’s definitely his main way to show love — any type of love. Ornstein cherishes the people he loves, they’re truly precious to him in a way that transcends idealism, soft things and self-serving joy. He wants them to be safe and happy, and he’ll do whatever it takes to achieve that.

Yes, he can be absolutely ruthless and just awful in the name of love.

Then, sharing personal things of his own. This is a great deal for him, so used to remain stoic and private. In a way, he does fear the vulnerability that comes with opening up to others, so he’ll only do it when feeling comfortable enough, which demands a sort of trust that can only be born from love — again, of any kind. Being dismissed, treated without care or simply taken for granted will hurt him enormously,  becoming a potential breaking point in the relationship.

how easily does your muse fall in love?

Hardcore demi-romantic, aka he doesn’t fall in love easily. Never. He needs a pretty strong emotional bond beforehand. Even then, he’s just  finicky about relationships and usually not that interested. Once he does fall in love, though, it’s extremely hard for him to let go of the sentiment.

would your muse ever get married?

No — if we think about marriage in the conventional way, that is, the whole cis heteronormative husband and wife deal. There’s a few reasons for this, but suffice to say he’s repulsed enough by the idea to swear off marriage without much hesitation or regret.

Now, ironically, Ornstein is someone who does value monogamy and commitment, to the point where infidelity is a deal-breaker. 

If we talk about an scenario where same gender / non-cis marriage is allowed, then, he’d eventually consider it for a long term committed relationship. Although, he’d still much prefer a to stay out of it, if anything to keep his vows.

does your muse usually take the lead in relationships?

Depends on what we’re talking about. He’s very reluctant to initiate a proper relationship, simply because he perceives it as a potential liability.

how long does your muse have to know someone before they decide to ask them out?

Ornstein might as well NEVER ask someone out. He’s also heavily Demi-romantic, meaning he does need a strong emotional connection before any romantic attraction happens. Reasons why plotting romance involving him is difficult.

I think it’s way easier to start with a friendship, or even with a sex-based relationship, that might (or might not) turn into a romance as time goes by and a strong bond is formed.

[nyerus]

So I’m writing this in the wake of the new interviews we got at Anime Midwest, specifically Otsuka-san’s words on Victor and Yuuri’s relationship and the ensuing salt by antis. What boggles my mind is that people who so desperately cling to the idea that Victor and Yuuri are just in a “strong platonic friendship” are now not only disregarding canon context but also actual words from the creators of the show themselves.

I just want to start out by saying that we shouldn’t even be having this discussion. I am 100% certain that if Victor and Yuuri were a heterosexual couple there would be no controversy at all. No one would have to sit here and argue the validity of their romantic relationship—we would all have automatically assumed it from the get-go. If Victuuri were a heterosexual couple we would all be under the assumption that they were romantically involved already without half the things we actually got to see between them on the show.

How many times have we all seen movies or shows that start out with a female character and a male character at the very beginning and have thought “okay they’re going to end up together” (unless they’re related, one of them dies, etc)? A lot—even if we aren’t always conscious of it. It’s a common conclusion we all make and directors of such movies and shows rely on this assumption as they weave the romance. And almost always, these assumptions are correct. “He was a boy, she was a girl. Can I make it any more obvious?” Avril Lavigne said in her infinite wisdom once.

We even see this very trope subversion in episode one, with Yuuko. When we as an audience are first introduced to her character, we’re done so under the guise of Yuuri having a long-standing crush on her. She’s his childhood friend, the girl next door, etc. It’s natural for us to assume that he’s in love with her and that his narrative will probably revolve around those feelings. It’s natural because we’ve been conditioned this way. And then at the critical moment, when we think Yuuri is literally about to confess his feeling for Yuuko, our expectations are smashed when we find out that she’s happily married with three children. Some antis even still cling to Yuuri’s past feelings for Yuuko as proof that she’s somehow Yuuri’s true love interest and this is hilariously reach-y. Yuuko is so far removed from the realm of possibility for being Yuuri’s love interest that it’s comical—and purposefully so. The same time that we’re presented with Yuuko as possible love interested, we are also introduced to Victor. Victor, who is shown as being Yuuri’s ultimate inspiration and who Yuuri’s narrative ACTUALLY revolves around. (Similarly, Victor’s narrative revolves around Yuuri, as we’re shown in episode 10.) This is not a coincidence. We are shown this here, in this manner, for a reason—and not only because Yuuko is the one who introduced Yuuri to the wonder that was Victor. This is storytelling.

Throughout the series we’ve been bombarded with clear evidence for Yuuri and Victor’s romantic attraction towards each other. And unlike in many other shows where these are played off as jokes, these moments are taken rather seriously. Even when presented in a funny light (such as the “naked hug” scene in episode 6), they’re not jokes. They’re actual moments that happen between Yuuri and Victor and are either proof of their romantic interest in each other or serve to deepen their relationship in that regard. A lot has already been said on this matter, however, so I’ll move on.

What I really, really want to address is the fact that antis are taking the “soulmate” thing and either twisting it or refusing to see both sides of the picture. Kubo and Sayo (along with other staff) have said that Yuuri and Victor are soulmates and that their relationship goes beyond conventional labels. This is a beautiful notion—the idea that their love, in all its forms, is transcendent. That their bond is so strong and unshakable. And we even have confirmation that the reason Yuuri and Victor are now together in St. Petersburg is because they cannot bear to be apart.

So let me deviate a little here by saying sure, yes: there can be “platonic friendships” which are very strong and it’s important that such friendships are portrayed well in media. It’s vital that people understand that friendships can be just significant as romantic relationships. However Yuri!!! on ICE is not setting out to do that, nor should it have to. We now know very clearly that Sayo’s intent for Victor and Yuuri’s relationship is distinctly romantic. The show itself pulls no punches on this matter. There is no room left for self-interpretation.

What I’m trying to say is that when we get a heterosexual couple, we assume romance first and friendship second. But when we get a homosexual couple, we assume friendship first and romance second. I don’t intend to sit here and say how unfair this is—how it forces same-sex couples to go through various hurdles that het couples don’t have to bother with in order to prove the status of their relationship. That’s a topic that’s already been discussed at length but I want all antis to take a step back and realize that this may be one reason why they’re still clinging onto the “they’re just friends” rationale.

Now going back to the soulmate thing. Yes, soulmates can be platonic, but why are they not allowed to also be romantic? Antis seem to cling to the snippet of their relationship going beyond labels and somehow try to weaponize this as evidence of them only being close friends. But “going beyond labels” and “being soulmates” is not automatically exclusionary. It’s inclusive of all forms of love, including romantic and sexual.

This is getting long enough so let me just end by saying I know a lot of people aren’t trying to downplay their relationship for any homophobic reasons but are actually just afraid of being queerbaited. And thus these people are wary of any representation until and unless it’s absolute representation. This is understandable and honestly for a long time, I was afraid too. But now we have confirmation from the creators that yes, Yuuri and Victor’s relationship was always meant to be a romance and also that the staff now understands that ambiguity in this case is not what people want. They’ve listened to us and now it’s time that we trust what they’ve been saying as well.

I implore all antis to ask themselves why they’re so intent on ignoring canon evidence and now actual interviews from creators on the matter in order to downplay Victor and Yuuri’s relationship. Please, just stop and think. If you’re so dead-set on thinking that they’re just friends then, fam, maybe this isn’t the right show or fandom for you. Life is short. Go away.

(There are several sources who have transcripts of what was said at Anime Midwest, including @hanleia on twitter. Please check them out if you are interested!)