#yes the alice/alyss confusion is still there but then i read slowly and now i understand what went down;-;

[fivekrystalpetals]

100% agree with all of this! I couldn't put this more beautifully than this <3 <3 sums up all my thoughts about this too

yes, I can see why people might think that Jack truly loved Lacie and it'd probably work well in a what-if au such as: as you say, what if Oz never showed him the memory of Lacie being lonely and remembering Jack, what if Levi never visited Jack to incite him, or what if, even better, what if Oswald sent Lacie off with Jack that day instead of lying to him or best scenario ever: Lacie was never cast into the Abyss. in all these scenarios, Jack's real self would stay dormant and we'd never know what he might have done if Lacie ever died or left him.

but I feel like no matter what, unless he gets an obsession that surpasses Lacie, he is going to be the same. this ship works well on paper, because who wouldn't want a person completely devoted to them, never crosses any boundaries, never even questions anything you say to them (he knew Lacie was lying to him about the Ceremony yet he doesn't question her) but in reality, it would fall apart pretty soon. at least, for me, I will start feeling suffocated with such a person within no time

not only that, he has no solid personality of his own. The water allegory the characters keep comparing him to:

(this was incredible; I had to add it because wow, the way the meaning changed over time!)

like water, he molds himself into whatever the other person wants of him. If this is what Lacie wants of me, I will do just that perfectly so she won't leave me. Ever. Like Glen said, he seeps in through the cracks and makes you place your trust in him. Even Lacie, who found him super weird in the beginning, starts missing toward the end..

but this is what creeps me out about him as well. His whole world revolves around Lacie. Nothing exists in his world except her. That's why he has absolutely no qualms in sinking the world into the Abyss to 'bring the world to her'. (He says this is Lacie's wish.... but is it? I have to reread but I don't remember Lacie making any such wish to him or to herself even.)

he never thinks of Alice and Vincent as anything but merely appropriate, fated-to-fall-in-his-hands tools to get to Lacie. He says as much to Miranda too. When Glen says it is not possible or permissible to bring back Lacie, he at once tells himself that yes, this is not her brother speaking these words but because he has already turned into Glen and doesn't care about Lacie anymore, because he can't even imagine why Oswald would say such a thing. on the contrary, it's clearly shown that Oswald was very depressed over her death and he was living his life like he was repenting for his mistake, at the same time, serving his duty as the head of the Baskervilles.

He needed a new reason to exist after Lacie died, and destroying the world to ‘show her’ became his new obsession.

this. this. this is exactly what I feel about Jack after Lacie's death. He craves her affirmation even after her death.

the most shocking exchange for me was this:

(it's stuff for another post the way this bastard frames this as if he was questioning Glen about his motives to sink the world into the Abyss in the earlier chapters.)

he wholeheartedly, without a drop of guilt, believes what he is doing is the only right thing ever. He doesn't question his acts because he doesn't even feel like he is doing something wrong in the first place. It's Glen who is doing the "horrible" thing by trying to stop the chains from breaking. Look at his face, he is truly horrified by the "cruel act" Glen is committing. (I have no words.... I hate him so much but I can't help but admire the writing and thought that went into the making of this character.)

On the other hand, had he genuinely connected with Oswald, Gil, Vincent, Alices, he might even have found a new reason to keep living. You know, as the new Glen, Oswald (on suggestions from Jack perhaps) could have put the stop to the ritual of sacrificing the red-eyed sibling of the next Glen, making Lacie the last ever sacrifice and turning a new leaf in the Baskerville clan history in her memory. However, as you say, nothing mattered to him in his obsession to feel good about himself through Lacie and Lacie alone and search for his so-called humanity. Everything had to fall in place for his plans otherwise it had to be eliminated. And the irony is it does. he effectively blots out his part in the tragedy and frames the Baskervilles as the villains. He has Glen's body mutilated and his soul sealed by Burma and spins a convenient tale for his memoir. He forms the organization of Pandora just so that he can keep an eye on the ongoings within the country yet people fall for his words and trust him without any doubt.

Of all characters, I feel it's not Lacie or Oswald but Levi who understood his character the best. for me, these two men are kinda the same. Levi does things for the sake of "experiments", which is just another way of putting 'I am bored so I wanna push a few buttons and see what happens'. Jack needs an obsession to go on with his life, Levi needs a distraction to stave off his boredom with life. which is kinda the same thing? I think that's why Levi sought Jack out of all people to entrust him with the secret of his "experiments" and brought him along to use the Will of the Abyss as and how he wanted. Even Jack, who knew to use everyone and everything at his disposal as tools, turned out to be a tool at Levi's hands. That's why I believe that no matter whether Oz showed him her memories or not, Jack was going to end up causing the Tragedy of Sablier anyway. Maybe on a delayed date, but yes. In the form of the Intention of the Abyss, Levi had handed him a knife, curious to see if he would use it to cut a fruit or kill a person. we know what he would do lol

wow who would have thunk the reason the Tragedy of Sablier went down was not because of some intricate political intrigue, the four Dukedoms wanting to grab the power of the Abyss for themselves, the Baskervilles made to become the scapegoats for the Tragedy etc. etc.

but because...... every player in the backstory is I N S A N E

(I haven't read a wilder backstory for anything than this,, Retrace 66-74 what even are you???????? WHAT DO YOU MRAN OZ IS B_RABBIT DOES IT EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE??!?!?)