#yes im tagging it as that because im in a relationship with minthara and yet she says this hjksdf

[foxx-queen]

the my minthara is living in my head rent free

[crossdressingdeath]

#yes yes you get what im saying for sure#youre so right to compare to astarion tho#one of the most compelling questions that can come up in fiction re: redemption for me#is that question of 'who decides' that youre talking about#who decides what the point of no return is#and it is Supremely Disappointing to me the ways that BG3 juuuust kisses the borders of that question#and then pulls back at the eleventh hour and doesnt quite engage with it (tags via @veilkeeper)

One moment that really gets me regarding this is... after talking to the Flymms you can talk to Karlach about it, and she's basically like "I feel bad for him I guess but it doesn't change what he did". And from her perspective that's totally fine, extremely reasonable, but from a wider narrative perspective the fact that you can't say anything in response to that... kind of sucks? I mean, all the origin characters except Gale (whose only "crime" was making a mistake due to not having all the information, as far as we see the only one he's directly harmed in any major way is himself) and arguably Wyll (it's unclear whether or not Karlach was the first innocent Mizora sent him after) have innocent victims, at least potentially! Astarion obviously has the seven thousand spawn, Lae'zel killed plenty of her own kin growing up in K'liir, Shadowheart tortured and killed people for the Sharrans, Karlach can essentially devour people's souls to feed her engine (the soul coins are so fucked up, actually), Durge only stopped acting as Bhaal's Chosen because they had their memory stolen from them, but we're supposed to sympathize with all of them. What makes their pain more valuable than the Chosen's? Or their victims', for that matter? Sebastian is just as furious at and unwilling to forgive Astarion as Karlach is Gortash and every bit as rightfully, but we're supposed to look past that because Astarion's our friend. At times it feels almost like Larian's making a judgement call as to who "counts" as a "real victim" and who can be brushed aside as unimportant, and it really bothers me.

Especially as an avid Durge player! Whatever a given player's thoughts on the details of Durge and Gortash's relationship, there's no denying that Gortash was super important to them; important enough that they ended up begging Bhaal for forgiveness for caring about him too much! I'd kill for the option to point out to Karlach that she might hate Gortash for what he did to her, but he was as far as the evidence shows us Durge's only friend in the world and depending on player choice they can admit that they're still aware of the affection they held for him; why does her desire for revenge outweigh their (potential) desire to keep this person who meant so much to them that their admiration for him angered their father? Why does she get to make that call? And while Orin's situation isn't as personal for anyone in the party (at least if you don't recruit Minthara, I haven't kept her alive in a run yet so I don't know what happens if she's there) I'd love the option to look at the party as they're calling her a mad dog and deciding she has to be put down and say "Hey, that's my sister, I know what it's like to be trapped under Bhaal's thumb and I want to give her a chance". Or even just a more general "Why do they deserve death and I don't, what makes me so special?" question, because like... yeah, what does make Durge deserving of redemption beyond the fact that they don't remember what they did? The pain they caused is still there! The people they killed are still dead and their loved ones are still mourning them! Just, there are so many moments where it feels like you should be able to get into the fact that the Chosen really aren't that different from the party aside from not getting the help they needed to pull themselves out of the pits they ended up in and then the game just... doesn't let you. I'd be able to understand there not being any way to save the Chosen, but not being able to even try with Gortash and Orin feels less like "they've gone too far to turn back no matter what you do" and more like "these people don't deserve a second chance unlike everyone else in this game, because reasons". It's incredibly disappointing!

Dame Aylin: Rise, you dog! Retribution has come, and her sword is my sword! Kyvir: Wait - Ketheric has surrendered. Dame Aylin: Ha! Ketheric Thorm would sooner die than lay down his rank cause. Isn't that right, General? Ketheric Thorm: I was a fool to hesitate. Power like mine cannot be hidden, cannot be cowed. But power like mine has a price. A price I am destined to pay. You have one last chance to bow. Once it's gone, I'll have no choice but to destroy you both. Do you hear?! BOW!

There's something in how you can almost, almost get through to Ketheric only for Aylin (a very real reminder of his past misdeeds) to come in to fight him and him to decide that hesitation was futile because he has to pay the price for his power that really gets me. It feels like there's something in there that's almost in conversation with the general themes of redemption and second chances that show up in most of the origin companions' stories; Ketheric has hurt a lot of people, so does that mean he doesn't deserve another chance? If he doesn't deserve a second chance, what makes the companions deserving? There's something so good in there that the game almost touches on but doesn't quite, because BG3 sets up this very fun theme of how the Chosen really aren't so different from the companions with the main difference being that the Chosen weren't lucky enough to have someone or something pull them out of their spiral before they hit rock bottom but never really seems to want to engage with it? That's most notable with Durge (you never get the chance to say "Hey, the only thing making me different from these people is that I don't remember what I did, why do I deserve a chance to be good and they don't" and that will bother me forever), but you can see it a bit here too.