#yes I love writing Az being in love with an older woman

[tadpolesonalgae]

Hiiiii I have just binged a couple of your series, cbmthy and two birds 🐦 🐦‍⬛ and some of your steamy one shots 😈

I love both series so much! Are you planning on updating two birds again? the cliffhanger is rough 😂 but I love a story of azriel being in love with an older woman hehe

Hiya!!! Yeah, sorry about that cliffhanger 😭

I finally logged onto tumblr through my computer the other day and started rewriting Two Birds since I’ve outgrown whatever writing style I had at the time—it’s also in desperate need of some cleaning up, since I feel like so much of it is just saying what’s happening and I intensely dislike the bullet point format 😭

I’m a bit short on time for fanfiction writing due to all the wips I want to complete before I forget the ideas, as well as getting through cbmthy and finally writing the first chapter of colcov too, but it’s slowly being added to!

(Also thank you so much for expressing enthusiasm for it—I’m struggling with it since it’s been so long (don’t worry, I still remember all the plot points) so hearing someone still have in interest in it is incredibly heartwarming and motivating so thank you 🫂🫂🫂🧡💛)

[bookofmirth]

ok so this might come off as a bit rambly so please bear with me lol

i've noticed that the acotar fandom has this incessant need to be right when it comes to canon and it really sucks out the funness of fandom. shipping is supposed to be fun but when it comes to this fandom, it's almost like a competition to see who will be more right when the books come out. engaging with theories/predictions about characters and the plot is supposed to be exciting but when it comes to this fandom, some of the theories/predictions are problematic at worst and nonsensical at best. like how can you say with your full chest that you're so confident about where the series is heading in the future because of this or that theory when you're stuck in the past and refuse to see what all of the text is telling you in the present. it doesn't make sense. the selective reading is so strong that it has me looking sideways sometimes lol

i guess my question is why do you think the fandom is so divided when it comes to ships right now? i've seen people say this wasn't the case for feysand and nessian, so what's the difference here?

Oh boy Brielle, I have some thoughts on this. It's complex.

To be clear, I am not saying that this applies to literally every single person who ships a certain way. This is a commentary on the fandom as a whole, and there are always exceptions.

This got really, really long, so I'm putting it under the cut.

I think that one of the main draws of this series, and of sjm's writing in general, is her ships. I think that people get very, very attached to their ships.

I also think that sjm does NOT fully think through some of the choices that she makes when writing. See: the way that she takes from all these different cultures and mashes them together, which could be seen as disrespectful of their origin. She has retconned things, like Mor being queer and Lucien being Helion's son. I think that she thoroughly thinks about some of the aspects of her books, like Rhys's reaction to sleeping with Feyre for the first time, but then really half-asses other aspects of her books, like Mor coming out.

Then, we have your good old misogyny and homophobia - people in the fandom don't like Mor because she hurt the poor bat boy's feelings when she didn't sleep with him, and they don't have a mating bond, but she's never really told Azriel "no", and so every single moment of pain that Azriel has felt in 500 years is Morrigan's fault. And Mor's experience as a closeted queer woman who feels unsafe around the people she should trust the most is completely disregarded by the fandom.

Finally, I think that a combination of these factors has created the monster we know as e*riel, and that the fandom is perpetuating its own mythology.

What all of this comes down to, and the real reason I think that the fandom is behaving this way right now, is that e*riel is dead. It's never happened, it's not going to happen, but because we don't have the clear closure we got with moriel (where people would be accused of homophobia for continuing to ship it), people are still trying to figure out any possible way for e*riel to become canon, though every single sign points to it being a non-issue.

This weird thing where people have to be "right" all the time, and the way that "right" = "canon" is a relatively new development. It's as if everyone in this fandom forgot that they are in fact in a fandom, which inherently diverges from canon.

However, I think that the need to cling to canon is because the alternative would be to admit defeat and say "well, even if it doesn't happen I will still ship e*riel, it's fine, I will live with that." But they don't want to do that. In response, they look at canon so hard that they are reading the white space between the letters to create their theories, which as you noted as largely nonsensical and often fail to take into account who the characters are as individuals, how they are connected to other characters, and why it would or wouldn't be appropriate for them to be involved in various plots.

People could say, as eluciens having been saying since day one, "I really ship this thing but I can see that it might not become canon". But they don't say that. They literally refuse to see any other possibility than e*riel becoming canon.

You pointed out that people are stuck in the past - absolutely. The number of reimaginings I have seen of scenes where either Azriel or Elain has literally zero to do with the scene, but people try to shove one or both of them in there. And this from books ago. People are stuck on the Truthteller scene, and refuse to acknowledge that neither of them have acted on their feelings, whatever those might be, for years. And they ignore the fact that once Elain and Az do act, it goes horribly wrong.

Here are the facts as of right now:

ACOSF is the most recent book. In that book, sans extra chapter, those two had no interaction other than looking at one another.

If we include his POV, then he said it was wrong, we got confirmation that nothing has ever happened between them, she returned his necklace. Elain was aroused, but that does not mean she was ready to even have sex. "Yes" to a kiss is not "yes" to every single sexual act Az can think of. They parted on awkward, bad terms after a scene in which it seemed like they were about to start something. Yikes. Unlike Wings and Embers, they did not end that chapter still thinking of one another. After they part ways, the omniscient narrator does not mention Elain, or Az thinking about Elain, again.

His POV occurs months before the end of the book. They do not interact after that.

Elain has a mate she has not rejected, nor accepted.

So anyway, your question was why are people like this. lol. I think the fandom created a monster, and that monster is clinging to life. It can't accept the idea of morphing into a non-canon ship, though it never was canon in the first place. It had just convinced itself that it was.

There are other aspects to this, that have to do with gwynriel and elucien.

Gwynriel is a new ship, it's almost guaranteed to happen, people are super excited to ship it and give Gwyn all their love. I'm sure they would rather create content for that ship than argue about whether or not it's going to be canon, but they are in constant defense mode. Some people honestly didn't like e*riel before because they don't like Elain, or because they don't like Azriel, and those are valid reasons for not liking it. Why people ship gwynriel doesn't matter. The tone of the discussion is, unfortunately, being shaped elsewhere, which I will mention below.

Elucien is an old ship, older than e*riel. I can speak from this perspective - personally, I have been holding my tongue for 4.5 years. I have been letting people live, and just talking about the things I like. Then when acosf came out, it was like I could finally say all the things I had been thinking about Azriel, because I now had proof that the things I thought about his character (and because of that, about e*riel) now had solid canon foundation. This is 4.5 years of me holding in a lot of shit and finally being able to say it. Sometimes yes, I might take joy in having been right.

I think that a few people are clinging to canon, and that sets the tone for the discourse in the fandom. Someone says "according to page whatever, blah blah blah" and people feel the need to respond, and then it turns into and "I'm right" contest instead of... a fandom... A lot of us like debating. To me, it's fun. But when Person A starts a conversation that's about canon and it actually ignores canon, it's hard to let that conversation go by and just keep creating whatever we want to create. Instead, we respond, and so the tone of the conversation is shaped by what Person A decided to say.

I also think that there is a lack of distinction between theories (what will happen in the future) and meta (analysis of what we have now).

There is also a lack of "I" statements. Opinions are being stated as fact.

idk if there is a way to make it better, other than to just go back to ignoring one another. This whole situation makes me want to throw out every single canon ship I like and create exclusively non-canon content, just for spite. Except I really like doing meta, and so I don't want to. I guess for my point, I'll just keep doing meta, keep creating different content, and keep reminding people that they aren't here to continue perpetuating canon, but to play with it.

[flowerflamestars]

1/4? Okay! So I just finished the latest chapter of Daylight and I have some thoughts I NEED to unload... First! I always read back at least one or two chapters to recap details and so on and lord those chapters are Monoliths! Behemoths! Tomes! I understand how they take such time and I'm thoroughly impressed every time I read and/or reread and realise how much time it takes! Second! The way you write this story?? Impeccable! I adore all of your fanfics but

2/4? this one destroys me every time! Not just the story in itself (it's amazing dont get me wrong) but the way you write it? The words? The poetry, because let's be honest that's what it is?! Soul wrenching (and obviously inspiring because I feel myself throwing around adjectives like tomorrow might never come)! How Nesta opens up her chest like a ripe pomegranate ready to let Cassian in? The tree that the library grows for her with flowers for every lie and request? Cassian just casually

3/4? flying off every morning to watch the sunset turn the shade of nestas eyes a few minutes? Devastating! Third! Just all of the relationships? Lucien and Az being happy and with a baby heals my heart! Helion being so ride or die that he regularly offers to start a war and every time Nesta declines he offers the consolation of blowing things up! Erebus just casually confessing to murdering bloodlines while being an annoying older brother who loves his sisters, pure joy!

4/4! I must admit tho that I am curious about Elain and Ysandr.. do you think you'll want to write their story sometime? I would love to read your take on Elains seer powers and how she sees the world every day. If not maybe you could share some snippets or headcannons on how they meet/what their relationship is like and who he is? Looking forward to the next chapter and I hope you have a lovely holiday season despite everything else going on ❤

This message? Incredible, wonderful, so kind, my heart is imploding.

Poetry??! Too generous! But honestly, the real key to Daylight is that I decided to write whatever I wanted, however I wanted- I abandoned convention entirely...and I don’t think I’ll ever go back. 

YES LIKE A RIPE POMEGRANATE- Nesta drank down death and Cassian wants to swallow her whole, yes!! Cas being a romantic babe yes!

The tree is- totally, completely- me stealing/fucking with traditional western religious iconography? A tree of knowledge whose evils and truths come from men who think they have absolute power, but whose words are for the devouring of this one woman who will know what they truly mean. She’s Lillith, the garden is hers, the tree is hers, the knowledge is hers, no serpent needed.

Helion!! The Nessian stuff eats up the page...but the first, and most important love story is Nesta and Helion. They keep each other safe in a whole, different way. It was together, and only together, that they managed to get to where they wanted to be. 

I’m always a little surprised the Erebus is loved by readers as much as I love him? It’s my favorite little way to remind the story that Nesta and Elain are Different- they look at him with this total kinship, but even Cassian is like...what the fuck is wrong with this dude? he’s great, but he’s so, so off kilter all the time and still full of love. 

SHADOWBATFIREBABY! She is...the cutest? One of the first things she learns to do is make lil shadow creatures that go visit people she loves. Helion is like: why thank you perfect granddaughter for this horrific creature I love you too. (her fake creatures have flaming eyes because Lucien makes lil fire animals for her at story time...the combination is..something.)

Ysandr and Elain have their own stuff coming! I had to cut it to divide the chapter in two, but it is coming. They might get a small extra too? He’s just...stalwart and true and massive. And SO devoted to his tiny little, insanely terrifying wife. Think if Tolkien dwarves were 1)what fanfic wants them to be 2)Super Mega Illyrian Levels of Hot 3) hardcore believers in fate/prophecy. He’s a king and a craftsman! He’s go a battle axe! There are courtship rules!

Thank you so much for reading and this lovely message! Happy holidays and a safe, wonderful new year to you :)

[ourownsideimagines]

Anger Comes In Many Forms (Aziraphale x fem!Reader)

Characters: Reader (Female), Aziraphale

Requested: Yes

Requested by: @walrusgoddess​

Point of View: Third person omniscient

Warnings: Cussing, violence (not a lot), and soft bean Az, and ALMOST NO EDITING

Words:  2379

A/N: OKAY LISTEN, so I had something planned out w/ the reader and Az coming back from the shop from lunch and being harassed (and the reader of course sticking up for Az), but then I had the most wonderful idea of her just fucking decking Gabriel and had to write it. I hope this fits your idea hun!

—

Aziraphale did not get angry often. Some people would assume he didn’t get angry at all -- these people, of course, were wrong. Crowley knew that best, from experience. The angel has been a little more than irked by his fallen friend. His girlfriend has also learned this oddly fast, after experiencing a fight between her angel and his favorite demon. She didn’t have the faintest idea what the argument was about, because as soon as she’d entered the shop Crowley excused himself and stormed out, leaving her to calm down Az.

(Name) on the other hand, had a bit of a tempter, and often it got her into trouble. She’d given Az heart attack on multiple occasions when she would tell off a man twice her size for cutting them in line, or when she would tell men who were very obviously a part of the mafia to fuck off when they entered the bookstore. He loved her dearly, but her temper was going to kill him one day.

Today might as well have been that day.

Aziraphale had told (name) about his boss, Gabriel, on a handful of occasions. Often in complaints about how the archangel didn’t care about the end of the world, and would let everyone burn in the fires of armageddon.

(Name) had never met Gabriel, but she already hated his guts.

She remembers when Az had come to her, upset, because he’d tried once more to convince Gabriel that there was something they could do and he not only rejected the idea, but had made a rude comment about his weight. That was the final straw for (name), and she was prepared for murder.

(Name) had been away from the shop, grabbing some lunch, trying not to think of the fact that the world could end at quite literally any minute. On her way back, she could smell smoke in the air and began to worry. It was when she saw the roaring flames spilling out of the bookshop doors that the food left her hands, and her feet carried her to the building.

She ignored the pain of forcing the doors open, and flung herself inside.

“Aziraphale!” She shouted, but got no response. “Az!” With an arm out in front of her, she took a step towards the backroom, but was stopped when a beam fell from above, effectively blocking her path.

The world around her began to spin, and (name) began to cough violently.

“Aziraphale!” Someone cried from behind her. “(Name)!”

“Crowley!” She called back. The demon came into sight, storming his way towards her. Tears fell from her eyes, both from upset and from the fire. “He’s gone!” She sobbed. “I left to get lunch, and when I got back… Oh god, Crowley.” (Name) let out a low, pained moan as the demon dragged her into his arms, protecting her from the fire.

“Some bastard,” Crowley growled, making sure nothing fell over the both of them. “Killed my best friend.” He hissed. The two didn’t stay much longer in the shop, knowing that it would kill (name) to stay in there. After grabbing something off of one of the tables, Crowley lead her to his car, tossing his ruined sunglasses away in the process, allowing (name) for the first time to see the yellow snake eyes Az had once offhandedly mentioned that the demon had, when she had asked why he wore them all the time.

“Get in.” He all but snapped, trying to collect himself as he got in the driver's seat. (Name) got in beside him, not strong enough to make any arguments.

“He’s gone…” She croaked.

“Discorporated.” Crowley hissed. “And the bastards probably won’t even give him a new body.”

And Crowley was right. Because as (name) and Crowley sat at the bar, Crowley drunk, and (name) halfway there, Aziraphale appeared to them, albeit transparent to say that he’d left notes in the prophecy book they’d accidentally taken from the girl they’d hit with Crowley’s car (of which, conveniently, was the book Crowley had taken from the shop).

That’s how you found yourself stuck in traffic on the way out of London, towards Tadfeild, and why Crowley was suddenly cursing himself for messing with the shape of the M25.

“Come on, there must be some way across this.” Crowley muttered, reaching over you to grab the prophecy book. “Burning roads. Did you predict this, Agnes?” As Crowley began to flip through the pages, a hand reached of from the backseat, causing (name) to scream and jump away. Hastur crushed the new pair of glass with his hands and tossed it onto the seat beside him as Crowley grimaced. He then pulled you closer to him, in case Hastur got any ideas.

“You’ll never escape London.” The duke said matter-of-factly. “Nothing can.”

“Hastur!” Crowley said icily. “How was your time in voicemail?”

“Funny ha-ha, joke all you like, Crowley.” Hastur grumbled. “There’s nowhere to run.”

“Aren’t you to be lining up, ready for battle around now?” Crowley gave (name) a light squeeze when he realizes just how nervous she had become.

“Hell will not forget.” Hastur replied. “Hell will not forgive. You know where the real Antichrist is, don’t you.” Even (name) knew it wasn’t a question. “You’ll never reach him. You’re done Crowley. You think you’re going to get the both of you across that?” The flames before the car seemed to grow at the duke’s words. Crowley used his free arm to select a CD, much to (name)’s confusion. “There’s nowhere to go.”

“Let’s find out.” Crowley slipped the CD into the player.

“What- wh- why are you driving.” (Name) could hear the distaste in Hastur’s voice.

“Crowley,” She muttered.

“Trust me on this,” He mumbled back.

“That’s- what- Stop this thing!” Hastur demanded, and (name) slowly began to recognize the tune of Queen’s ‘I’m in Love With My Car’.

“You know the thing I like best about time?” Crowley drawled. “It’s that every day it takes us further away from the 14th century.” Crowley kept an arm around (name), and one hand firmly on the wheel. He gave her a tight squeeze. “I really didn’t like the 14th century. You’d have loved it then, Hastur. (Name), not so much. They didn’t have any cars back in the 14th century.” Crowley continued to speak as they drove closer, and closer to the raging fire. (Name) had half a mind to force the wheel to the other direction, but she was too scared to even more let alone tussle with the kind demon.

As they plunged into the fire, (name) was surprised to find that it was not hot -- whatever Crowley was doing to keep her safe, she hoped it would last, because even from her seat she could hear Hastur’s skin bubble and ignite. She tried to ignore his screams of pain, and Crowley’s howls of laughter, or the way he screamed at the burning car even after they’d finally exited the fire and entered the London rain.

The next few events happened in a blur -- they arrived at the Tadfeild Naval base, where (name) discovered that Aziraphale had taken possession of an older woman, who herself was accompanied by an older gentleman. They’d followed a group of four kids, led by the Antichrist, onto the base.

(Name) was shocked when Az pulled a gun on the Antichrist, and almost tackled him was it not for Tracy taking control back momentarily, causing them to misfire into the air.

“Why are you two people?” The Antichrist, Adam, asked. Az began to stumble over his words, but Adam stopped him. “I think you should go back to being two separate people.” At his words, Tracy’s form became distorted, and out of her Az stumbled ungracefully into (name). She almost cried in joy, throwing her arms around him. She pulled back suddenly, frowning.

“Were you just about to shoot an eleven year old boy?” She glowered at him. His eyes widened.

“I- oh - ah- Yes! But he’s the Antichrist!”

“He’s a child, Aziraphale.” She scoffed. “If I remember correctly, even you believed in nurture over nature.” That seemed to shut him up, if only momentarily, as they watched Adam’s three friends use a flaming sword to defeat three of the four horsemen.

“Wasn’t that your sword?” Crowley asked.

“Yes,” Az said. “Yes, I do believe it was.”

“You had a flaming sword?” (Name) asked. “Did you lose it?”

“Now I… gave it away.” He said, his cheeks flushing pink. (Name) would have questioned it further if not for Death’s departure. “See Crowley, it’s like I said-”

“Oh it isn't over.” Crowley said, shaking his head. “It’s far from over. Heaven and Hell still want their war.” Crowley stepped away, towards the children. “You, boy. Antichrist. What was your name again?”

“Adam Young.”

“So your friends got together and saved the world. Well done, have a gold star, won’t make any difference.” (Name)’s head swamped with confusion as a man and woman approached, the woman shouting at Crowley about how he had stolen her book, of which he tossed back to her. A slip of burnt paper floated downward, which Az caught, but would not let (name) see before slipping it into his pocket.

(Name) jumped out of her skin when a crack of thunder rang through the air, and a bolt of lightning struck the ground behind them. Az held her close as a nicely dressed man appeared, another figure appearing shortly after, rising from the ground, a gigantic fly adorning their head like a hat. They approached, moving past the group to stand on the other side of them.

“Lord Beelzebub.” Crowley said as he did an over exaggerated bow. “It’s an honor.”

“Crowley.” Said Beelzebub. “The traitor.”

“That’s not a nice word.” Crowley grimaced as he stood back up

“All the words I have for you are worse. Where’s the boy.” Crowley turned to look at Adam.

“That one.” The nicely dressed man spoke. “Adam Young.” He moved closer to the kids, stopping a few feet from Adam. “Young man… Armageddon must.. Restart.” He said with an unconvincing smile. “Right now. A temporary inconvenience cannot get in the way of the greater good.” By now, (name) had determined from Az’s previous descriptions that this was Gabriel, and that he was just as much of an asshole as he had been described. She watched as, together, Gabriel and Beelzebub attempted to convince Adam to restart armegeddon.

“Excuse me,” Az began to move closer to Adam, you following along, not wanting to leave his side, and him not wanting to argue. “You keep talking about the great plan.”

“Aziraphale, maybe you should just keep your mouth shut.” Gabriel demanded.

“One thing I’m not clear on.” Az ignores him. “Is that the ineffable plan?”

“The great plan!” Beelzebub snaps. “It is written. There shall be a world, it shall last for 6000 years and end in fire and flames.”

“Yes, yes, that sounds like the great plan.” Aziraphale gave your hand a tight squeeze as he spoke. “Just wondering. Is that the ineffable plan as well?” That’s when the realization hit (name) -- neither of them knew. Of course they didn’t know!

They just wanted war.

“Well, they’re the same thing!” Gabriel exclaimed after a few tense moments of silence.

“You don’t know.” Crowley and (name) said in unison, catching attention. Crowley sauntered over to stand with his friends.

“You know, it’d be a pity if you’d thought you were doing what the great plan said, but you were actually going directly against God’s ineffable plan.” Crowley looked around as he continued. “I mean, everyone knows the great plan, yeah? But the ineffable plan… It’s well… It’s ineffable isn’t it? By definition we can’t know it.”

“But…” Beelzebub frowned. “It is… written.”

“God does not play games with the universe.” Gabriel argued.

“Where have you been?” Crowley scoffed.

“Obviously not on earth.” (Name) muttered as Gabriel took aside Beelzebub to speak. (Name) turned again to Az, about to say something when the archangel shouted.

“Well at least we know who’s fault it is!” He snapped, eyes landing on the group. (Name) had had about enough of him, and tore herself away from Az to take the few steps to Gabriel. Az and Crowley both called to her, curiosity laced in their worry. Gabriel sneered down at her. “And what do you want-”

(Name) had only punched two other people in her lifetime, one of those being Crowley (for reasons she would rather not mention), the other being her older brother. Neither had felt as satisfactory as landing a perfect punch on the angels stupidly perfect face. Out of the corner of her eye, she could see that Beelzebub was almost amused by the situation as Gabriel held his face. (Name) didn’t know if it was out of actual pain or from surprise, but she glared at him all the same.

“That’s for calling my boyfriend fat you bloody prick.” She spat. “And for all the other times you treated him like shit.” There was suddenly a hand on her shoulder, and she allowed Crowley to pull her back towards the group.

“She-“ Gabriel resurfaced, hand still over his face, but (name) was satisfied when she saw the slow drip of blood onto the pavement. “She broke my nose!”

“Oh, get over it, she could have done way worse.” Crowley gave her a knowing glance and she looked away sheepishly. She ignored the constant returning glare from Gabriel as he and Beelzebub promised to tell Adam’s father (Satan) about him ‘misbehaving’. As they finally disappeared, (name) brought herself to finally look at Aziraphale, whom had been staring at her with flushed cheeks.

“Did you… did you really do… that,” He fumbled over his words as he took a step toward (name), his cheeks only burning hotter as he refused to meet her gaze. “Did you just punch an archangel… for me?”

“I’d have done much more to that asshole if Crowley hadn’t pulled me away.” She promised. She grabbed his burning cheeks and planted a soft kiss to his lips. “No one insults my angel and gets away with it. I’d do anything to protect you, my love.” Az pulled her into a tight hug, too flustered to do much of anything else.

“Hey, you two.” Crowley said. “There are kids, don’t go getting call cutesy.” You rolled your eyes, but gently took your significant other's hand, prepared for whatever might come next, because he was at your side.

Then, the ground began to shake.

[spelling-checked-mostly]

Idk if you do fic writing but maybe GO -because I'm obsessed and "nanny, why are you crying?" Idk. Kinda feeling angsty. If you don't do fic that's cool too. Idk, feeling bored in here on this Friday afternoon... iloveyourworkpleasestartpostingagainokaythanksbye

Oh uh... wow okay hi. I do write fic, thanks for the prompt. I'm not great at angst /lies/ but I can try. Note that I am typing this on my phone. Warlock was singing- internally of course. Nanny wouldn't approve of the future ruler of hell literally singing. Unless of course, he sings queen. So Warlock sang internally, voicing his joy only in his head. “Yes father, I would love to go.” It’s the first time he has really been allowed to go to an event like this. “I can behave. I promise.” “I’m sure you will not embarrass me. Especially with your nanny there to keep you in line.” Crowley's head shot up. He had very little interest in going to these events. Of the very few things humans did that he actually had an influence in- he hated dinner parties the most. He just found them dreadfully boring. “Yes sir, of course.” He wanted to sit in his room and drink that night out of existence. “I'll make sure Warlock is the perfect son.” As soon as his father had left Crowley told Warlock to go play in the garden. He followed of course. Hunting down the one being on this planet who would understand his opinions on the matter. “Sometimes, Francis, I really hate being perfect.” Crowley ‘leaned’ against a shrubbery and watched Warlock chasing after a rabbit he had found. “You are far too vain, my lady. Though that may be your only flaw.” Aziraphale stood, wiping the dirt off of his hands. “To what do I owe the pleasure of your company this afternoon?” Crowley sighs dramatically and looks away. “Do you recall, oh it wasn't that long ago of course you do, when politicians and debate first started developing into a less- er… civil manner. I suggested to some minister or some such that they all get together for a party.” Azira nods. “Honestly, they do seem to resolve things better when they are all in a good mood.” he sighs, “I suppose I should have thanked you for that.” Crowley shrugged. “But are the decisions they are making actually good ones? I had to use a lot of questionable logic to not get in trouble for that.” Aziraphale laughs, only a little. “Well anyway, I have to go to one with the antichrist. I can't imagine it will be enjoyable in the slightest.” And Crowley can see the way his angel physically deflates. Because something is wrong. “Everything alright Angel?” “Hmm? Oh yes, everythings just… tickety boo.” And Crowley rolls his eyes- not that you can tell, but he does it anyway. “We have been over this. No one who is tickety boo actually uses the term tickety boo. What's wrong, come on now tell me. We’re partners aren't me. If you have concerns about the child… or something else?” And aziraphale sighs, and frowns and crowley doesn't like it at all. “It's just… I've been thinking recently… Warlock is getting older and- and well he's not spending so much time at home anymore and you always go away with him and I-I just feel like when you go… I feel- you get more chances to tempt the child than I do is all.” And Crowley laughs. And Aziriphale will never tell him how much it hurts when he laughs at him. “Oh Angel, you should have told me sooner why- we could have certainly found some excuse for you to come with us. Might need a miracle but I can certainly work something out… If that's really what you are so down about.” And Azira forces himself to smile. And Crowley can see through it but he doesn’t say anything. And Warlock comes running over. “Nanny, nanny come look, I’ve killed it.” And Crowley smiles. And Azira gasps. And they go together to find the poor creature. “Very good.” “Now now, Warlock. We should respect and love all of god's creatures. How about a proper burial.” Aziraphale doesn’t give him a chance to argue. He takes the rabbit up in one hand and leads him over to a steadily growing wildlife cemetery. “But Nanny says that-” “The one thing you should respect is your elders.” Crowley smiles softly over at his Angel, even if there is no acknowledgement of what he has said. “Yess nanny, I’ll get the shovel.” “Thank you for that dear.” Aziriphale says it quietly and doesnt turn around. ~~~~~Convenient time skip for exposition~~~~~ “He called me dear. Can you believe that? I mean I know he does it all the time. It’s just his nature. He calls everyone dear. It just felt different this time, you know?” He continued gently misting his plants. “He's a terrible gardener, but I can forgive that.” There's a light rustling and crowley stops. Resting his hand on his hip with all his demon sass. “We have been over this. It’s not like that. Satan though, I wish it was. But could you imagine?” He laughs and goes back to tending his own little garden in his room. “I’d have to teach him how to dance though. Angel only knows one dance and-” “Nanny who are you talking to?” Crowley shrieks and spins and nearly sprays Warlock in the face with the spray bottle before catching himself. “I wasn't talking to anyone. Do not sneak up on me.” He sets the spray bottle down and leads them out of the side closet into the main area. “Sorry. I’m jsut bored because i was listening to father talk about work and i started thinking and - Oh yeah i came up to ask you something.” Warlock grins and Crowley can't figure out if he is proud of or afraid of the demonic gleam in his eyes. “Do you have a date for the party Nanny?” Crowley nearly falls out of his chair. “No-I- Well- Am i supposed to?” He straightens out his skirt and tries to compose himself. “Well, I was listening to father and he was talking about how one of his partners got a new girlfriend and father hates her but he just knows that his partner is going to bring this girl with him and it got me thinking that you are a fairly pretty woman. At least, far prettier than my friends' nannies so i figured you must be seeing someone.” Warlock pauses for air so Crowley takes the chance to cut in. “Well, if ruling hell doesn’t work out I suppose you could make a career in flattery.” He decides he is definitely not going to address the issue of his love life with the antichrist. “It's just that i'd really like to meet him. So i asked father if he hated all boyfriends and girlfriends or if it was just the man he works with and he said that they weren't all bad and he wouldn't even mind people bringing dates to things like this if they weren't so insufferable as that girl so i asked if he would let you bring your boyfriend and he seemed really confused but he said that your boyfriend couldn't possibly be as bad as that girl so as long as you do your job and i really want to meet him nanny.” And again warlock pauses for breath. This time Crowley doesn’t speak. He thinks for a moment before opening his mouth. “Say you’ll take him to the party or I- I’ll- when i take over hell i won't let you have sweets.” Crowley laughs. “Would it still be as exciting if you had already met him?” Crowley could laugh from the look on the boy's face. “You aren’t dating Clyde are you? It would be just like you to date another nanny and he's just so bossy and he doesn’t even believe ill take over hell and… I don’t like him or stupid Jackson and his stupid new toy train.” Warlock folds his arms over his chest and pouts. Crowley does laugh this time. “No, Clyde is too… too much of a nanny. No Warlock, I would be bringing Francis.” Warlock does not look as surprised as Crowley would have expected. “The gardener? I mean I guess I see it but he's so soft and you're so- uh..also soft. But like dark soft.” and crowley nearly growls. “I. Am. Not. Soft. And if you say it again you’ll be going to bed early.” He can hear the plants rustling behind the door. “Well it's just… he looks like he escaped from a male convent.” “A monastery?” “And you look like… you. Like you are waiting for people to find the body of your ex husband who disappeared three years ago so you can play the grieving widow and inherit his fortune.” “You are very creative, warlock. I am eager to see what your future looks like. Yes, seeing as I am aloud I will be bringing Francis as my date to the party. Go play in your room for a but, Nanny has something to take care of.” As soon as Warlock is gone Crowley pops back down to the garden. “Brother Fran- Oh don't scream Angel, it’s just me.” Crowley waits for him to calm down. “I told Warlock we are dating.” “You did what!” “Oh for Satan's sake angel I said don’t scream.” Crowley smiles and brushes his hair back. “Yes, Miss Ashtoreth, I won't scream but I must ask dear. You did what?” “Its brilliant really Angel. And Warlock gave me the idea. Maybe you really are having an influence on him.” The comment goes right over the angels head. “I've told him we are dating. Then you can be my date to parties and things. It’s fine with his father by the way. No miracle needed. You can have just as much chance to influence the boy as me.” And Azira smiles. And Crowley knows it's still fake but he can’t possibly figure out why. So he leaves it alone. “I guess when you put it like that it’s okay to lie.” Oh. Oh right. “Of course Angel. So may I tempt you to join me for a dinner party?” “I suppose. Yes. You could.” ~~~ Time skip because i hold all the power ~~~ “He said yes. Can you believe that. Of course he says its all a lie so he doesn’t really love me but i suppose we've known that this whole time haven’t we? Yes I suppose we have. We’ve been over this.” Rustling. Crowley sneers. “Oh you know what, shove it up your roots Phil. I would run you through the disposal if you weren’t the second most perfect specimen i’ve ever seen. Don’t tell the others of course. How will i strike the fear of- uh- me into them if they know i treat you like this.” ~~~ Time skip because that was just self indulgent~~~ "Oh, Miss Ashtoreth, who's your friend" Crowley cringes at the sound if that voice and grips Aziraphale hand a little tighter, trying to sink into the wall. "Not now Clyde, I'm trying to watch Warlock. Unlike some people, I take my job seriosly." "Oh please, what trouble can they really get into here? Be polite, introduce me." Crowley pouts. Legitimately pouts. And Azira pulls his hand away to offer it to 'Clyde' "I'm Francis, Lady Ashtoreth' partner." Warlock watches Crowley's mental battle to not rip Clyde's hand off when he reaches out. "Im Clyde, of course. I nanny for one of Warlocks friends. Miss Ashtoreth and I are very close, funny she didn't mention you." Azira laughs nervously. "Yes well, as a couple were fairly-" "Private." Crowley takes his hand bag and drags them away. "I hate that man. Honestly, he dares question the legitimacy of our relationship. We are perfect together." And Azira forces are smile. Because he knows. And Crowley can tell it's forced, but he doesn't press it. Because he doesn't know. "So this is the uh… boyfriend Warlock talks about" they spin to the new person, crowley doesn't let go of his hand. It's an awkward turn. "Yes Mr. Dowling." Crowley is beaming. And Azira hates it because his adversary is trying to tempt him again and he can't get in trouble. "I must be honest, I never would have suspected. Of course, my wife always has more of a sense for those things" he nods a little, like that makes sense. "Well sir, we do try to be professional at work." Wonderful excuse Crowley. A genius you are. "Thank you for allowing him to come with us though." "Yes well, you seem to still be watching after Warlock so I don't see the harm in letting you have some life" he sighs, looking around. "Er… would you mind telling Warlock he can't stay for dinner. There are really some important decisions to be made so we are rereading some ending the children home early." "Of course sir" Crowley was not looking forward to upsetting the antichrist. He resigned himself to it, and set about locating the boy again. Every person who cast doubt on his relationship with aziraphale upset him more until he was eager to get out. But of course, every time he looked back at his angel, Azira seemed to be having fun. Laughing and chatting with whoever they had bumped into. And of course, there were people who weren't entirely surprised. Which made it a little easier for Crowley to stomach socializing. Every chance he got to tell someone that he and Azira were dating, he took. He adored being able to say it. Although, he noticed, it did seem to put his date a little on edge. Finally they found Warlock. Or... he found them. "Nanny this is boring, I want to leave." Crowley sighed. "Well you're in luck. Your father is sending you home. Come on now, let's get your things." If crowley were anything other than a demon he might be ashamed to admit that he used a minor demonic miracle to get than hem out without people noticing. As an angel Aziriphale is rather distraught over his own use of a miracle to keep people from noticing them. On the drive home even Warlock can tell that it's tense. Azira waits for Crowley to put the child to bed before saying anything. But as soon as he walks down the stairs. "I can't do this." And he can see Crowley break. Anthony Janthony Crowley, demon from hell, nearly starts sobbing on the stairs. But only for the fraction of a second when that wave of emotion first hit's him can you tell. Then he carefully packs it away. "Can't do what Angel?" And Crowley knows. And aziraphale gives a sad little smile, because he knows. "We aren't right Crowley. Every single person could tell. You could tell" "Aziraphale it's not about what some stupud humans think. We are doing this because- so that you can spend a little more time with the kid. Put us on even ground. Who cares what people say. We can do this." And Crowley hates that he's practically begging and Aziraphale hates that he's practically begging and they both hate this situation. "I can't do this Crowley. I. Me. I cant. I'm an angel Crowley and it's just wrong to lie about something so... intimate. So human. It's wrong to lie to everyone." And Crowley can see that tidal wave comming in again. So why not swim out to meet it. In a flash he's right in front of his Angel. Holding his face. Pleading. "Why does it have to be a lie?" And he hates himself for leaning foreward and kissing that stupid, stupid angel. But for the briefest second he sees heaven. Then Aziraphale pulls away. "I've said it once, I'll say it hundreds of times. Until you understand. You go to fast for me" It crashes over him and he's drowning. "Go. Go away. Go back to your own house tonight. Don't bother comming in tomorrow. Itll be too rainy for you to get any gardening done" "Oh, Dear don't-" "Get. Out. Aziraphale." And he leaves. And the door closes. And Crowley barely makes it up to his room. He doesn't make it up to his room. "Nanny, why are you crying?" Warlock steps out of his bedroom door and puts a gentle hand on Crowley's arm. "That party was just so dreadful" and -for the first time since Warlock had learned to walk- his nanny picks him up, carries him to bed, and tucks him in. "Thank you, Warlock." And then he leaves. ~~~Time skip brought to you by a lazy author and stuff~~~ "He HATES me Phil." Crowley sits in the corner. To dry to cry. He just sits there, staring at the plant. "He he's me and you know what I hate me too and I bet you hate me. Warlock doesn't hate me though. The one person that I need to hate everything doesnt hate me." A dry sob shakes his rib cage. "I've made a discovery though. I do believe angel saliva is some weird form of holy water. I thought ink he was about to kiss me back. Right before he pulled away. His eyes were closed I know it." It's silent for far too long. "I love him, Phil." Ahnhdmhxnabdh I haven't gotten a prompt in like ever. I love you sm. I haven't written GO fic in forever. I did more research for this than for my actual writing projects because I did not preciously know what a male nunnery was called. This was fun. Btw- Phil is a fake plant. Crowley doesn't know yet.

[sincerly-kate]

Falling Skies (Crowley x Fem!Reader)

A/n: Hello! So I’ve decided to start writing on here, and I hope that you guys like it and feel free to let me know about any requests or ideas that you’d like me to write in the future, enjoy! Also thank you to @ourownsideimagines for getting me out of my writers block!💙💙

Warnings:Slight angst, fluff ending and kinda swearing?

Summary: Crowley and Y/n have known each other since before his fall. Unknowingly to the other, they both ended up falling for the other over time. Crowley responds to this in his own ways, but what happens when Armageddon starts and they both need to pick a side?

Y/n; the sister to the archangel Gabriel. Some may say that this had its perks and that she could get away with whatever she wanted whenever she wanted; the ones who said this obviously didn’t know Gabriel very well. If anything, she was kept under a much more watchful eye. In y/n’s eyes, this was so she didn’t hurt his perfect reputation up in heaven. There was only two people in the entire world that truly knew y/n.

An angel named Aziraphale, that was more of a brother to her than her actual archangel brother ever could ever be,

and a certain demon named Crowley.

unknown to the other, they both shared feelings for the other.  And as one normally does, they both decided to ignore this feeling.

The three of them have known each other for about 6000 years, and over the years they’ve seen each other through it all.

From the garden of Eden to modern day, they became a trio of unlikely friends. but if it came down to it, they would be sacrifice themselves for the other when it came down to it.

Right now, you and Aziraphale were in his bookshop. You were there to keep him company, while Aziraphale on the other hand was trying to find a certain object that he refused to tell you about.

"Y/n? Are you quite alright dear?" you were snapped out of your thoughts by a certain blonde haired friend of yours.

“Oh,” You turned your head towards Aziraphale, “I’m fine.” You moved your head from the palm of your hand that you had it resting on and gave him a thin lined smile.

Aziraphale gave you one of his knowing looks, he knows you were lying but he knew you didn’t mean any harm by it; that’s just the way you were.

No thanks to Gabriel and the others, you always kept your thought and feeling to yourself. You were always told that they were a sign of weakness.

You sighed and pushed yourself off the couch and walked towards the bookshelf Aziraphale was in front of.

“Now, I think both of us know that far from the truth.” He gave you a sympathetic smile before taking his attention from the shelf, and to you.

You sighed and leaned against the shelf and looked to the ground in defeat. ‘Damnit, he knows me too well for my own good.’ You thought.

“Now, are you going to tell me why you were daydreaming about Crowley, or are you going to lie?” He said bluntly, not even phased by your cheeks suddenly turning a bright pink. You then straightened out your back, and tried to may your way towards the door.

“Uh- erm. I-I don’t know what your talking about Az…” As you slowly sauntered towards the door to make an exit with at least some of your confidence intact, a force decided otherwise and pulled you backwards by your jacket.

“Dear, you are not leaving until you tell me what’s going on between you two. I may be oblivious at times, but I’m not blind.”

You turned around, to look your ethereal friend in the face. You sighed and then began to speak, “He hates me, I just know it Az! In all of my centuries existing, I’ve never once done anything to him! One day he wants to talk to me and then the next he wants nothing to do with me. He wouldn’t even care if I didn’t even exist.” Your voice becoming lower and lower as you continued.

A book then slammed onto the table, “Y/N! In all my millennia of knowing you and Crowley, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else look at another like the way you two do.” You jumped at not only the sudden noise, but also his words.

Crowley; in love with you?

You don’t think you’ve heard anything more impossible.

“Goodbye Aziraphale.” You said in a monotone, as you walked out of the shop; but this time he let you.

As your face confronted the cold air, you headed into the direction of your flat. Once you were halfway there, you got shoved by one of the pedestrians on the sidewalk.

You turn around to confront them, “Hey! Watch it!” but by the time you turned around all you could see is what looks like to be the older man in an army jacket who was already halfway down the street, and seemed to be heading in the same direction as the bookshop.

-

You were just about to have a nap when you suddenly got a phone call from the demon himself. You picked it up, and before you could tell him off for ignoring you for the past five days, he started to talk.

“Y/n, I need you to meet me at the Tadfield air base. Now.” You could hear something in his voice, but you couldn’t quite put your finger on it.

“Crowley, if this is one of your little-” once again; you were interrupted.

“No, seriously angel, I need your help.” You knew it must’ve been serious if he was actually asking, nearly begging, for your help.

“Alright, is Aziraphale coming with us?”

“… no Y/n...” By his tone and lack of nickname, you could tell that something must’ve happened, but you decided you’d ask him once you got to the air base.

“Alright, I’m on my way.”

-

Once you had gotten to the air base, you noticed two other individuals were at the gate as well. This made you confused as to why they would be at the air base, that was supposedly abandoned from what you could see.

“Hello?” You tried getting their attention and hopefully some answers, but as they turned around you noticed that one of them looked familiar.

“Hey! You were that idiot who almost knocked me over!”  you started to aggressively stomp towards him, but a female's hand had stopped you, and spared the gentleman from your wrath.

“Lady, I’m going to have to ask you to get that hand of yours off of me!” you shoved her hand off you, and what happened next will still confuse you till the end of time.

“Y/n dear, I’m going to have to refrain you from harming that man.” Aziraphale’s voice then suddenly coming out of the mystery woman.

“A-Az?” Your brain was incapable of processing what the hell was going on, but before you could ask, a certain Bentley that was engulfed in flames and the sound of Queen coming out of it was turning towards the base.

You were still speechless by the time Crowley got out of his Bentley,

“Hey, Aziraphale! I see you found a ride. Nice dress. It suits you.”

Your head then turns towards ‘Aziraphale’ with a more than confused expression, he waved it off and said he’d explain it to you later.

Once you guys got into the base, you could already see the four horsemen, and in front of them were four… children?

Upon closer inspection, you finally realized that one of the children was standing out most to you.

“Is that? -” You pointed to the child,

“Yes, that’s the antichrist, get with the program here!” Crowley said to you with an underlying irritated tone.

That just pissed you off more.

“Oh, that’s IT!” You then turned your body around to tell him off; screw Armageddon; he was pissing you off. Unfortunately, ‘Aziraphale’ stood in front of you to stop you.

“C’mon dear, don’t do something you’ll regret.” He then guided you towards the children and the horsemen, but also knowing damn well you wouldn’t actually harm him.

-

Somehow, the children and the Antichrist who you found out eventually was named Adam, got rid of the horsemen. You were about to turn around and head back to your flat, until you heard a wretched voice.

“Y/n! Good to see you, shouldn’t you be in heaven with the other angels?” Gabriel said to you, his voice was laced with an undertone of annoyance and his violet eyes filled with fury, seeing that you were quite literally in between another angel and a demon, both that have been giving him issues since who knows when.

You felt yourself shrink into yourself, and feel your white wings become exposed as you were about to fly up.

But something stopped you, or more like someone.

Crowley was holding your hand and keeping you from leaving again, especially since he realized he’d have to fight you if Armageddon was to start. He would rather be discorporated then fight you in what he’d know would become the death of both of you.

“No, she’s not going anywhere, especially with you.” Crowley then for once stood up to Gabriel, you never thought that in your life he would do that; especially for you.

You were completely shocked but felt a warm feeling that he would even dare stand up to him for you, but I guess what has he got to lose if the end of the world starts in a few minutes?

“Fine then, you win then!” You were confused as to what he meant, until you started to hear a high pitched scream.

You then realized that this scream was yours.

Your back was burning, and you let go of Crowley’s hand as you fell to the solid ground underneath you, and both of your hands went to your back; more specifically your wings.

You then your vision was becoming darker and darker, but before you completely passed out, you heard Crowley and Aziraphale scream for your name.

-

Once you came back to your senses, you tried to stand up, but your back felt as if it was on fire, so you fell back onto the bed.

This caused you to let out a groan from pain, and this also alerted the two beings that were in the other room.

“Angel?” You heard Crowley’s voice coming from the other room and the sudden sound of two pairs of feet making their way towards you. Crowley then turned the corner with Aziraphale in his own body in tow.

“Angel, you’re alright.” He then came up to you with relief filling both of your faces, he then grabbed both sides both your face and kissed you with a passion you never knew he had for you.

You started to kiss him back, tasting some of the salt from tears that were falling from both your faces as you both then pulled away, realizing you weren’t quite alone.

“FINALLY!” You both hear Aziraphale yell, as he makes his way out of the room to give you both privacy to talk.

You laughed at him, but then a sudden jolt of pain stopped you from laughing harder. You tried to grab for your wings, but Crowley’s hand stopped you from doing so.

“Don’t worry Y/n, we’ll get him back for what that bastard did to you, even it’s the last thing I ever do.” He kisses your hand, as you turn around to see your now broken, burnt, pure black wings behind you.

[mubal4]

“What’s love got to do with it?” – Tina Turner

 Ever get a song in your head and you have no idea how it got there?  This one popped into my head after coming back from the gym.  I was running around the house singing it to myself; thankfully Robin and the girls were not home.  It would have just been another reason for them to continue to believe I have many screws loose. 😊  It is crazy the shit we keep inside our mind over time.  Hell, this song came out in 1984 (yes, I looked it up).  I was 10!! Of course, it prompted a blog article to write; well, to be honest, it clarified what I wanted to write about. See, the picture above was from Robin and my wedding day, March 15, 2002.  Tomorrow will be our 17th Anniversary.  HOLY SHIT!!!  That is all I can say about it.  A year prior to that, in May, is when we met and if you told me that I was going to be married to this woman for 17 years I would have told you, “you are full of crap.” Actually, let’s be 100% truthful here, it is the other way around; I don’t know if anyone thought that Robin would be married to me for this long, or at all!! 😊😊😊 Yes, that one gets 3 smiley faces!  Truth be told, I think we both knew quickly after we met.  In July, we were talking about marriage, meeting each other’s parents, etc.; the thoughts were in our minds.  Then, we got engaged in September.  We knew each other about 15 weeks, 3.5 months before we were engaged.  Crazy shit, right?

Now, 17 years later, I wouldn’t want to have a life without here.  Of course, it is incredibly hard for me to imagine my life with her not in it; I don’t even want to think about that, but the fact that we have been together this long makes it incredibly difficult to think of a day without her to see, talk to, kiss, hug, lie next to.  When I do travel and I am in some hotel somewhere, I miss the hell out of her.  There are nights where we are just so exhausted, we don’t even say much; we just fall into bed and crash.  But when I wake up in the middle of the night (to pee, because that is what 40+ year-old dudes do) it is incredibly comforting knowing she is right there.  Yes, there are those days that are not ideal.  I have shared recently some of the struggles we’ve been experiencing lately. And, those moments suck; I can’t lie about that.  But I know they are a necessary part of our growth.  Are they avoidable? Yes, 100% but should they be? No.  I think the first several years we were married, since it happened so quick, and then, after 18 months, we were parents, we were in a whirlwind.  We were figuring each other out and our roles in the relationship (we didn’t realize it was a partnership at that time too).  We where trying to find out what the hell we were supposed to do with this new baby in our lives.  Robin wasn’t “ready” to be a parent, but she was so much more prepared and mature than I was; I was still adjusting to living in AZ thousands of miles from my family and friends.  Things were crazy, hectic, unorganized, and exciting, thrilling, fun, and scary! We were figuring it out.  Seventeen plus years later, although we are older, wiser, more mature (Robin, not me 😊) and more experienced; there are still many days that are crazy, scary, unorganized, exciting, fun, and fulfilling.  I know we take each other for granted at times and we lose focus on one another.  Being parents, having careers, coaching, building a business, mentoring, running, life……it all gives us so many openings to lose sight of where it all started.  That is one of the things I was referring to in the blog the other day that makes relationships tough.  

 As I reflect on our 17 years together; all the shit we have gone through, grew through, overcome and continue to press through; much of it our own doing, it has been an amazing ride.  Yes, there have been many moments that have sucked incredibly.  However, those sucky moments, no matter how low they may have been, we have continued to climb our way out and have become stronger, both as individuals, and as partners.  There have been moments of question I know on both sides, “how are we going to work through this.” Can we? Will we? Should we? I am being incredibly transparent and vulnerable here, but I believe it is right.  We have had our struggles and I am not afraid or embarrassed to share it. Every, EVERY marriage, relationship, partnership struggles, has fights, conflict, arguments, and shitty moments. The stuff that is portrayed in TV, social media, that everyone’s marriage is happy, it is bullshit.  Robin and I have had those tough moments and we will continue to have them.  I am not proud of those moments.  But I am proud of HER; I am proud of me.  I am proud of US.  Yes, there are times in the 17 years we have been together that have been some of the toughest challenges I have had to experience, and I believe I can say with a high level of confidence, she has felt the same.  But I will say this, SEVENTEEN DAMN YEARS & there are so many we have left together God willing.  No, I am not easy to be around all the time, neither is Robin.  Yes, I am a pain in the ass at times, so is she.  Yes, I have things I do that annoy the shit out of her (acting like a 12-year-old boy), same goes for me.  But each of those things, no matter how crazy they may make us, are a part of us. We accept those annoyances in each other.  We forgive them, and the fights, and the arguments, and the conflict.  We acknowledge all of it too and discuss it, maybe more than we should.  Robin tends to keep things in, and I let it out, I let it go; sometimes, for both of us, to a fault.  But, throughout 17 years of marriage, not matter how shitty things have been, no matter how tough the circumstances and through whatever thoughts and questions were swirling in our head, WE FIGURED IT OUT.  We beat it and we will continue to do so.  Isn’t that what love is? Isn’t that what being married is about?  All that said, adding up the tough times falls in comparison to all the greatness we’ve experienced.  

 I will close it with this, and it is running related so bear with me, I have spoken to Robin and my daughters about having that one ultramarathon where everything clicks, all falls into place, and the day is magical. Although there are days that it seems everything is out of place, the 17 years I have been married to you Robin, THEY HAVE BEEN MAGICAL.  

 Robin, thank you for seeing the good in me, and thank you for letting me experience it in you.

 Happy Anniversary Honey.  So excited to celebrate with you 😊!!

[authorracheljoy]

100 Followers!! WTF!!

Hey, so I finally managed to hit 100 followers here on Tumblr! Just HOW did that happen O.O Seriously WHAT?! Anyway, to celebrate this first milestone, I thought it’d be cool and justified to do 100 facts about myself ;) Sorry if some of ‘em suck! Thanks for everything, guys <3

1.) Name Rachel  

2.) Where are you from? Chandler, Arizona ^^

3.) How old are you? 21!

4.) Do you have any siblings? Yes! I have an older brother, Matt, and an older sister, Sarah :)

5.) Pets? I currently just have a 7yo boxer-lab mix named Honey ^^

6.) Describe yourself Urghh not good at that at ALL! XD Nope, not gonna do this! ;-; I don’t feel like bringing myself down any more than others have…

7.) What do you do for fun? Write, read, watch/obsess over Gravity Falls, & listen to music!

8.) Do you have a job? What do you do? I do NOT have a job ;-; Unfortunately…

9.) Have you had other jobs? Nah

10.) What’s your favorite memory? Can’t think of a specific thing! D:

11.) What is one thing you regret? Ruining friendships by being too clingy ;-; Definitely…

12.) What is one thing you wish you would’ve done, but didn’t? Repaired broken friendships… It’s not like I truly regret that, but… yeah :/

13.) One thing about yourself you wish you could change My shyness/awkwardness aaand my acne-prone face! :P

14.) What do you love about yourself? Mmmm my willingness to adapt and try to help others~

15.) Who inspires you? No one in particular, sorry :/

16.) Do you collect anything? Snowglobes!

17.) Do you have any fears? Plenty! Fear of heights, drowning, spiders and living alone for the rest of my life – to name a few :3

18.) Is there anything that annoys you about your job? Don’t have a job -_-

19.) Can you tell us a secret about yourself? Ohgosh… Uhm… What do you guys not know? Oh! My first dealing with ships began with Avatar: The Last Airbender (first I was Kataang then I was Zutara… now I don’t know what I am XD)  not really a secret!

20.) How about another secret? :) WHY?! Frick…hold up… Ehh I’m pretty much an open book, guys ;-; I’m not THAT interesting either…

21.) Favorite band? Hrmm it’s a 3-way-tie between OneRepublic, Imagine Dragons & Panic! At the Disco <3

22.) What music are you currently listening to? Gravity Falls OST ;3

23.) Do you have a favorite song? Ughh it literally changes every day! XD

24.) Do you have a favorite movie? Hmmm I don’t watch too many movies :3

25.) What’s your favorite color? BLUE, first and foremost, but I also love red, purple, and black~

26.) What’s your favorite place you’ve ever been to? Mmm I really REALLY liked New York… But Boston’s pretty sweet too ;)

27.) Ever broken a promise? I try not to, but I’m sure I have…at some point…

28.) Do you have a favorite book? Mmmmm! Maybe XD Like music, that changes at LEAST monthly! XP

29.) What’s your favorite school subject? English! Followed by Science! ;3

30.) Least favorite school subject? Math! Oh, and P.E. (if that counts XD)

31.) What’s your favorite food? Honestly, anything Italian! ;) Oh yeah, and potatoes! ^^

32.) How about least favorite food? Hmmm….

33.) What’s your favorite Holiday? Halloween, but Christmas is a CLOSE second! ^^

34.) What makes you mad? People that purposefully ignore me… but maybe that makes me more insecure and not necessarily mad… huh… I’ll get back to you on that one!

35.) What makes you happy? Chatting with friends and listening to music ^^ <3

36.) Do you have a favorite scent? Mmm apple cinnamon comes pretty close ;D

38.) Do you have a favorite TV show? Not right now!

39.) Can you share an extremely embarrassing moment? You mean every moment of my life – specifically my childhood? Can’t choose!

40.) When is a time you were extremely irritated? VERY recently ;-;

41.) Is there anybody you hate? I honestly don’t hate anybody. If you hate me, I don’t think I’ll be able to reciprocate. I might not talk to you for an honest amount of time, but I would never hate you ;-; It’s always temporary…

42.) What do you look for in a person? Ehh I’m not too picky (other than status in a relationship) but humor plays a big role ;)

43.) How’s the weather? HOT!

44.) Are you currently in school? Yup! Online college ;)

45.) What is your goal in life? Honestly… I want someone who accepts me in all of my awkwardness/shyness and loves me even when I’m lazy or moody :3 I also want to be a successful writer, and that dream’s very slowly becoming a reality ;)

46.) Is there something you should be doing, but keep putting off? Creating a book trailer for a friend of mine :D

47.) Ever been to a concert? Yeahh but it was mainly when I was younger ;-; Nowadays, I wouldn’t be able to afford it…

48.) What was the last movie you saw in theater? Wonder Woman! ^^

49.) What was the last book you read? Lexicon by Max Barry! :3

50.) What is your favorite season? Autumn~

51.) Do you prefer it to be hot or cold? Honestly, hot :P As much as I complain about the heat in AZ, I’m too much of a native here to stand the harsh cold up north ;-;

52.) Do you prefer the sun, the rain, or snow? I like sun and rain, but prefer RAIN~ ^^

53.) If you could go anywhere, where would you go? Currently, anywhere but here >.>

54.) Any current travel plans? Planning a trip to Oregon next year with one of my besties :D

55.) Do you prefer day or night? NIGHT! ^^

56.) Are you an introvert or extrovert? Hardcore introvert~

57.) What is something not many people know about you? I was a cheerleader back in elementary school ;-; Does that… count??

58.) Where are you right now? My room. Why?

59.) Look in front of you. What do you see? My computer :/ *shrugs*

60.) If you could meet one person, alive or dead, who would it be? Any of my online friends, honestly. Or Alex Hirsh. Or Shakespeare. Yeahhh…

61.) Would you rather look into your future, or fix something from your past? Look into my future :3 I wanna forget the past entirely ;-;

62.) If you could sit down with anyone in the world, and talk to them for an hour, who would you like to speak with? @mercurialsmile for sure <3

63.) What was the first CD you ever owned? Ohgod…Um… Probably a Kidz Bop CD? I think?

64.) What was the first CD you ever purchased with your own money? Also hard… happened forever ago… Probably an Imagine Dragons CD?

65.) If you own any Vinyls, which was your first? Don’t own any Vinyls

66.) How many CDs do you own? TOO MANY TO KEEP TRACK OF!! O.O

67.) What relaxes you? Music and talking to my closest friends :3

68.) Do you have any talents? Does being awkward count??

69.) If you could give yourself the ability to do anything, what would it be? The ability to stop being so stressed out all the time… :|

70.) Favorite candy? Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups!

71.) Is anything bothering you right now? Ehh something always seems to be :/

72.) Are you happy with where you are in life right now? Ehhhh I could stand to get a job and get my Dad’s overbearing presence off my back about it -_-

73.) Is there anyone you regret ever associating with? NEVER

74.) Do you have a favorite memory from your childhood? Plenty… Can’t name one specifically right now, tho ;-;

75.) What is your least favorite memory from your childhood. Falling at the local skating rink and hitting my head O.o

76.) Favorite memory of your parents? Whenever they don’t fight…

77.) Do you have a least favorite memory of your parents? Whenever they DO fight… which is often nowadays…

78.) How is your relationship with your parents? It’s… Look, I heavily love my parents. I depend on them. Sometimes they definitely get on my nerves, but I still care about them <3

79.) What’s your family like? Highstrung, at times D: Yeahh we might need serious counseling…

80.) Are you clean or messy? Kinda in the middle, and it depends on which aspect of my life we’re referring to! ;)

81.) What is your most recent purchase? A Tarot deck of cards for Gravity Falls, a bobblehead and a flashlight~

82.) What’s the most amount of money you’ve spent at once? $133 (I don’t have to say what it was for, right?? *begins to sweat*)

83.) What are you saving up for? Gravity Falls stuff!

84.) How much money do you have to your name currently? Wtf… If ya really want to know, my account says $181, which fucking sucks balls -_-

85.) Have you ever done anything last minute? Yah, all the time!

86.) What’s the furthest in advance you’ve planned something? At LEAST a year! :D

87.) Are you an introvert or Extrovert? But I already answered this ;-; Ehhh introvert! (again)

88.) What’s the latest you’ve ever been out of your house? 11pm

89.) Cats or Dogs? Both, but I’m more of a dog-person ;) Still adore cats, tho!

90.) How long have you gone without sleep? I don’t even know…

91.) What were you like as a child? Fucking too quiet!! -_-

92.) What do you miss from your childhood? My friends </3

93.) Do you have a favorite memory from work? Can’t have a memory if you don’t have a work to go to X’D

94.) What’s the scariest thing that’s ever happened to you? Having panic attacks are pretty horrifying D: I can’t breathe…

95.) What’s a bad habit that you have? Nervously awaiting texts/messages and always being naggy ;-;

96.) What are your plans for the summer? Try to get a job; try to survive the heat…yeah

97.) What was the last thing that made you happy? A gift arriving from my friend! ^^

98.) What was the last picture you took on your phone? A picture of my dog ;3

99.) Who was the last person you texted and why? Uhhh that would probably be my mom and she was checking if I was awake or not >.<

100.) Have a message for your followers? Thanks for putting up with my (at times) Tumblr spam! I never thought that in a mere month I’d reach this many followers O.O It’s almost UNREAL! Anyway, thanks so much for following me, and I hope you continue to ;D

[preserving-ferretbrain]

Vampires: You're Doin’ It Wrong

by Melissa G.

Sunday, 20 December 2009

Melissa kindly provides Fb's obligatory Twilight article.~

So with the release of New Moon, and that fact that it has now beaten out the sales of, like, everything ever, I am reminded strongly of the intense rage I feel for anything Twilight-related. Add that to the rage-inspiring feminism kick I’ve been on lately, and it should come as no surprise that I’ve decided to have a go at Twilight. Because nothing inspires my rage-o-meter more than a woman writing a book damaging to women, especially teenage women.

I can only personally speak to the first book as that is the one I read. I decided to spare my sanity and keep the others far, far away from me lest my brain start melting out my ears. Let me give a brief disclaimer: I had negative feelings toward Twilight before I even read it, and I kind of only read it so I didn't feel hypocritical hating it so much. So, was my judgment colored? Yes, it was. But that doesn’t mean that my points aren’t valid and supported by the text.

Here's my issue with Twilight. I can accept Twilight as a guilty pleasure read. I understand why so many girls are titillated by the idea of it; every novel or TV series or movie that I’m exposed to, I, too, will inevitably fall for the vulnerable, sympathetic bad guy (Draco Malfoy, anyone?). What I object to is the people who are under the opinion that Twilight is a well-written, well-crafted, original book that realistically and believably captures a healthy and functional relationship between two people who truly love each other.

Not only is the book inherently flawed in its conception, but it isn’t even written well to make up for it. One of the biggest examples of writing-fail comes in the prologue of the book. Meyer wrote a prologue about an imminent death in first person past tense. Say that with me again. IMMINENT death. FIRST person. PAST tense. Immediately any sort of actual terror inspired by this passage is moot because it's pretty obvious that this imminent death is not happening. And it’s not even as if the prose itself manages to inspire some sense of fear or suspense. Bella tells us she’s “terrified”, but the writing here focuses on her thought process, which is quite lengthy and calm for someone who is about to die. I kind of imagine the killer looking at his watch and tapping his foot while he allows her to think all this out. Surely, the point of putting this scene at the beginning of the book is to create suspense, and it fails miserably in this.

So, as you can see, Twilight was off to a fabulous start with me. It was like going to a blind date you regretted agreeing to and seeing the complete antithesis of what is attractive and desirable to you. But I was willing to keep going and give the book a shot to impress and win me over. So I begrudgingly continued reading, and sadly it did not get any better. I will address the following things in this rant: Shiny Vampires, Bella-fail, and Abuse = Love.

Let's start right off with: Shiny Vampires

I have always liked the idea of vampires. Vampires in literature have predominately functioned as metaphors – most commonly as metaphors for sex and seduction. Dracula, arguably the most famous vampire novel, did exactly this. Dracula is about sexual repression. The vampires represent sex; the staking of Lucy in the graveyard is written very well to read disturbingly as a rape scene, and the three sisters, as well as Dracula himself, are seductive and deadly. And being turned into a vampire means to give in to your sexual desire. And let’s face it, with all the penetration (by teeth) and exchanging of bodily fluids (blood), it’s not hard to see what Stoker was going for.

All Twilight did was indulge an extremely common fantasy that has been done many times before, and honestly, it's a lot more acceptable when you don't try to defend the blood-sucking undead creature's really outrageously inappropriate behavior by equating it with love. Yes, it's fine to investigate the downside of immortality, to make your vampires angsty, but the problem I have with "Twipires" is that they really don't make any sense outside of "Vampires need to do this so my plot works." There are some lazy attempts to explain why vampires are acting so OOC or doing conveniently plot relevant things, but it comes off more as lazy writing than plausible excuse. For example, the reason they go to high school is because they need to start as young as possible in a new town so that people won’t notice right away that they’re not aging. I don’t know that being the odd home-schooled family would make them stand out any more than they already do, but if they didn’t go to high school, I guess there would be no book – you know, unless you came up with another plausible reason for two people to meet and interact.

And here’s where Edward doesn’t even try to provide any sort of reasonable explanation for the inconsistencies:

“Don’t laugh – but how can you come out during the daytime?” He laughed anyway. “Myth.” “Burned by the sun?” “Myth.” “Sleeping in coffins?” “Myth.”

That’s it, folks. That’s all we get. Not even an attempt at why these things have gotten misconstrued over the years. No line about that damn Bram Stoker getting all these ideas in people’s heads or anything. No attempt at all.

So, let's go over what goes into making a "Twipire". They drink blood, they don't age, they have super speed and strength, they can't die easily (in fact, even conventional methods like stakes and sun don't work), and, the biggie, they don't combust in the sun - they sparkle like a magical little pony. Oh, and let's not forget that some of them develop cool powers completely arbitrarily that are convenient to the plot and only serve to make her characters more “speshul” and nifty. There are certain changes I can accept in vampire mythology, such as it being a virus ala Blade or deciding that vampires can't actually do things like turn into bats and such. But when you take away the essential things that make a vampire a vampire (not being able to go out in the day, being killed by stakes), these creatures cease to be recognizable as vampires. By denying them the core elements of their identity, the vampires are domesticated in a way. Their power, both as characters and as literary devices, is taken away. It would be like if someone wrote about vampires and decided that instead of drinking blood, they had to stand upside down on their heads for at least five hours a day to keep living. And I highly doubt that vampires are the only monster in common mythology that lives on blood. Why not find a better creature to suit your needs instead of changing an already existing mythos almost completely?

I suppose my more basic issue with them is that I don't see much real downside to being a vampire in this world. They're super-strong, super-fast, get cool powers possibly, seem to be fairly uninhibited from going outside, and are immortal and nearly unkillable. Sounds pretty good to me. From what I could see, there was no good argument against turning Bella into a vampire pretty much immediately except, of course, that maybe you're too young at seventeen to know who you want to spend the rest of your life with, but this isn't a claim the book seems interested in exploring. As far as I remember, the problem Edward has with turning Bella into a vampire has everything to do with not wanting to make her into a monster like him and nothing to do with the fact that their love might not be forever. Instead, their everlasting love is presented as a given. Now, in Bella’s teenage mind, this is acceptable; it’s very common to think your high school boyfriend is “the one”. But no one in the text – or the text itself – seems to challenge this idea. To use another vampire/human relationship most of us are probably aware of, Angel – being older and having more life-experience – believes that Buffy has a teenage crush on him and will eventually mature out of the idea that having a vampire boyfriend is cool or at all emotionally satisfying. Twilight doesn’t tackle these more covert emotional complications of a vampire/human relationship; it is satisfied to merely deal with the obvious, which makes their relationship far less interesting to the reader.

Let's move on to Bella-fail...

So, anytime I say the words "Mary Sue" and the person I'm talking to goes "huh?", I simply say, "Like Bella." And they immediately understand. Okay, I do tend to give a sort of definition as well, but as soon as I mention Bella, I need say no more. Bella is the epitome of Mary Sue. She keeps insisting over and over how she isn't pretty or popular or special, but the text pretty much contradicts her at every turn. No one liked her at her old school, she wasn't popular, she's doesn't stand-out, and yet, in her first few days of school, she has three, count 'em, three guys all clamoring immediately for her attention (Eric, Mike, and Tyler – we’ll not even count Edward and Jacob yet). So, this girl who insists how absolutely plain she is is someone still capable of arresting the attention of, like, every guy in school. I call bullshit. Now, here’s a quote from Meyer giving an answer to the question, “Why do all the guys at Forks High like Bella if she's supposed to be average-looking? Is she pretty or not?”

Some parts of Bella's experiences are modeled after real life (my life, to be exact) in order to ground the fantasy aspects of the story in solid reality. Ironically, many of the details that are one hundred percent reality are the ones that are called into question the most (as illustrated by some of my angry Amazon reviews). In this particular case, I modeled Bella's move to Forks after my real life move from high school to college. (Personal story alert!) I mentioned in my bio that I went to a high school in Scottsdale, AZ, which is Arizona's version of Beverly Hills (picture the high school in the movie Clueless). In high school, I was a mousy, A-track wall-flower. I had a lot of incredible girlfriends, but I wasn't much sought after by the Y chromosomes, if you know what I mean. Then I went to college in Provo, Utah. Let me tell you, my stock went through the roof. See, beauty is a lot more subjective than you might think. In Scottsdale, surrounded by barbies, I was about a five. In Provo, surrounded by normal people, I was more like an eight.

I can accept that going from a big city to a small town might bump her number up a little. There are definitely people who are “small-town hot” but not “NY/LA hot”. Fine. But here’s what the text had to say:

“You don’t see yourself very clearly, you know. I’ll admit you’re dead on about the bad things,” he chuckled blackly, “but you didn’t hear what every human male in this school was thinking on your first day.”

Checkmate, Meyer. Edward says “every human male in this school”. I can accept more guys in Forks liking her than in Arizona, but come on? Every male in school? Even the gay ones? I guess there also aren't any lesbians at Bella's school either.

Oh, and as with all Mary Sues, Bella has one tiny little adorable flaw. She's clumsy. Laughably clumsy. Plot-convenience driven clumsy. This is only made worse by the fact that her clumsiness often induces knight-in-shining-armor behavior from men, resulting in Bella constantly needing to be saved. Now, I understand that when she's surrounded by vampires, she is the weakest and it wouldn't make sense for her to be kick-ass, but the fact that she also needs help when she's just walking is a little much for me to take. And Edward's constantly cheesy lines about how he can’t leave her alone for a second just sound extremely patronizing. And here come a bunch of them!

“I’ve never tried to keep a specific person alive before, and it’s much more troublesome than I would have believed. But that’s probably just because it’s you.” “Don’t be offended, but you seem to be one of those people who just attract accidents like a magnet. So…try not to fall into the ocean or get run over or anything, all right?” “You were right. I’m definitely fighting fate trying to keep you alive.” “I’m surprised that you did make it through a whole weekend unscathed.” “Are you referring to the fact that you can’t walk across a flat, stable surface without finding something to trip over?"

Bella is so utterly incompetent at walking. And it makes her absolutely incapable of taking care of herself. She constantly needs men to help her. It's infuriating. She almost gets hit by a car, but magical Edward is there to save her. She almost gets mugged/raped by some random Straw Men in Port Angeles, but luckily, Edward was stalking her so he could leap in to the rescue. This reinforces in young girls’ heads that they are helpless without a man around. And that being helpless is perfectly okay because one day, they'll find a big, strong, practically perfect in every way man so that all they need to do is sit around birthing babies.

Now I'd like to talk about the character of Bella, but she is so miraculously vague, especially given that the book is entirely in her point of view. What does come off, to me at least, is that she is horribly arrogant and ungrateful. She seems to have a bad enough relationship with her father that she calls him by his first name, but there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that he is anything but a genuinely nice, protective Papa. He buys her a car (more than a lot of parents would do), tries to be involved with her life (how dare he?!), and even seems rather guilty and embarrassed that he can't cook for her.

He seemed to feel awkward standing in the kitchen doing nothing; he lumbered into the living room to watch TV while I worked. We were both more comfortable that way.

This of course also reinforces such wonderful gender stereotypes. But the fact remains that Bella's treatment of her father seems rather unfair and unfounded, and pretty much just came off ungrateful and nasty. He didn't have to let her come move in with him to begin with, but he actually wanted her there, a fact she seems to take completely for granted.

Her snootiness is evident again when she meets Jessica, who as far as the book tells us, has done nothing but be nice and try to include Bella into her circle of friends. Again, this is more than a lot of teenage girls would do for the new kid in school. And yet, Bella seems extremely judgmental of Jessica simply because, I guess, she lives in Forks? I've been told by people that Jessica does actually turn out to be a bitch, but unless Bella shares Alice's “speshul” power, I don't take this as an excuse for her nastiness in the prose toward someone who is just trying to be friendly.

One girl sat next to me in both Trig and Spanish, and she walked with me to the cafeteria for lunch. […] I couldn’t remember her name, so I smiled and nodded as she prattled about teachers and classes. I didn’t try to keep up.

As if the use of the word “prattle” isn’t bad enough – it indicates Jessica is vapid and ditzy – Bella doesn’t even “try to keep up” with what Jessica is saying. Obviously she feels Jessica is below her. She isn’t even bothered to remember her name, nor does she seem to care that she doesn’t know it.

And then the fact that she's asked out by several guys to the dance is presented as merely annoying (which I'm sure it is), but not at all flattering. You’d think someone who’s never been noticed by guys before would find this overwhelming and exciting even if she isn’t interested in them. It’s also really hard to make anyone feel sorry for someone who has too many choices when it comes to guys.

Also, Bella likes to constantly point out to us in the prose that she has already done all the things that the kids in Forks are doing in school.

I kept my eyes down on the reading list the teacher had given me. It was fairly basic: Bronte, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Faulkner. I’d already read everything. That was comforting…and boring.

Is this a commentary on big city schools vs. small town schools? Perhaps, but it’s a rather unfounded and unfair conclusion. I think this is put in deliberately to make us think Bella is smart.

We had a pop quiz on Wuthering Heights. It was straightforward, very easy.

Are we meant to believe that it was easy for her because she was smart? Because it’s more likely that it was easy for her because she’d covered the material before. There is nothing smarter about being in a school that has a faster moving curriculum, and hell, there's not really evidence of that, only evidence that they are different curriculums. And anyone who has switched schools knows that no two schools work exactly the same in America. My friend (at a big city private school) and I (at a small town public school) read exactly the same books in high school, but we read them in different years. Also, the fact that Bella enjoys things like Charlotte Bronte tell us she's smart. You know what? If you were really smart, you'd still pay attention and just do it all again for review purposes or look into doing more challenging projects instead of the easy assignments you already know. Also:

I wondered if my mom would send me my folder of old essays

Lazy. Not smart.

I'm sure there's much more I can say, but let's move on to: Abuse = Love.

This is, much as people like to argue with me, a HUGE problem with the Edward/Bella relationship. I have been told by people that if I just read the short story that explains it all from Edward's point of view, it will all make sense and cease to be creepy and stalkerish. I disagree. Looking into the head of the perpetrator of terrible behavior makes the behavior understandable not excused. It's like holding up Lolita and proclaiming that NAMBLA or like-minded people have totally valid arguments because if you just read this book, you'll get it.

Let's talk about Edward/Bella, shall we? Her interest in him is spurred nearly completely by what she takes as his distaste for her.

Just as I passed, he suddenly went rigid in his seat. He stared at me again, meeting my eyes with the strangest expression on his face – it was hostile, furious. […] I kept my eyes down as I went to sit by him, bewildered by the antagonistic stare he’d given me. [ …] He was leaning away from me, sitting on the extreme edge of his chair and averting his face like he smelled something bad.

He treats her extremely rudely, acts like a total freak, and she can't stop thinking about him and starts becoming obsessed with solving the mystery that is the jerkface who sits next to her in biology. Now, I understand the curiosity, and I understand her wanting to know why some guy she's never really interacted with seems to hate her so much, but the difference to me is that most of the time, the guy who is treating you like shit rarely ends up being your "twu luv". He might be that asshole you dated for a while because he was hot or because you didn't have enough self-confidence to know you deserved better, but he should not be your true love, and the fact that Twilight represents this really bothers me. Especially given how seriously it's taken by teenage girls. As an adult reading it as a guilty pleasure, you can indulge yourself in the James Dean-esque bad boy with a heart of gold thing and then let it go and return to reality. I don’t believe that most teenage and pre-teens girls have the emotional maturity that would allow them to do this.

Twilight is reinforcing the idea that really, he just treats you that way because he loves you too much. (Sounds remarkably like classic spousal abuse defense, no?) And I'm not saying this was her intent, but unfortunately, it is what the book ends up doing. See, Edward's coldness and refusal to interact with her was really just him loving her too much. His sneaking into her room while she was sleeping every night for months was more evidence of his deep and meaningful love. And the true symbol of his affection is the fact that manages to keep from raping - er, I mean, biting - her as his nature as a man - er, uh, vampire - pressures him to do.

This is slightly off topic, but I get more than a little annoyed at how most media seems to believe that there is either making out or sex with absolutely nothing in between the two. To go past kissing immediately means having sex. Um, no. Untrue. Extremely untrue. And it bothers me that this idea is ingrained in teen's heads nowadays. To take this back to Twilight, let's look at the scene when they kiss, and this is her response:

Blood boiled under my skin, burned in my lips. My breath came in a wild gasp. My fingers knotted in his hair, clutching him to me. My lips parted as I breathed in his heady scent. Immediately I felt him turn to unresponsive stone beneath my lips. His hands gently, but with irresistible force, pushed my face back. I opened my eyes and saw his guarded expression. “Oops,” I breathed. “That’s an understatement.” [….] “Should I…?” I tried to disengage myself, to give him some room. His hands refused to let me move so much as an inch. “No, it’s tolerable.”

Her sexual arousal is “tolerable”? Not to mention, she did barely anything in this scene; the behavior was extremely tame and yet is represented as too much. While I can applaud the fact that the woman in the relationship is pushing for sex/vampirism and the man is the one refusing, the execution actually does more harm than good. It makes it seem like Bella's desires are dirty and wrong, thus pigeonholing women back into their "you can't enjoy sex" boxes. To look at some other examples:

There was really no excuse for my behavior. Obviously I knew better by now. And yet I couldn’t seem to stop from reacting exactly as I had the first time. Instead of keeping safely motionless, my arms reached up to twine tightly around his neck and I was suddenly welded to his stone figure. I sighed, and my lips parted. He staggered back, breaking my grip effortlessly. “Damn it, Bella!” he broke off, gasping. “You’ll be the death of me, I swear you will.”

Again, very slight sexual actions – Bella pressed her body into his – are portrayed as catastrophic to Edward’s ability to control himself sexually. (Remember, I’m looking at the “urge to bite” as equivalent to “urge to sleep with. Not to mention that the phrase “safely motionless” really irks me. It makes me think that women are just meant to lie there while they allow men have sex with them. Because god-forbid we, you know, enjoy it or something.

“What am I going to do with you?” he groaned in exasperation. “Yesterday I kiss you, and you attack me! Today you pass out on me!”

That’s right, his kiss was so passionate that she passed out. All he did before this happened was “[touch] his cool lips to mine for the second time, very carefully, parting them slightly”. That’s a pretty tame kiss. The book ends up presenting any form of sexual desire – no matter how slight – as a very big deal. And let’s note that he’s “exasperated” with her behavior. And when Edward restrains himself, it's supposed to be admirable rather than expected. He's so great! He can stop himself from raping people! My hero! To see this illustrated, take a look at this passage which occurs right after the first kiss when he pushes her away after she gets too into it:

He laughed aloud. “I’m stronger than I thought. It’s nice to know.” “I wish I could say the same. I’m sorry.”

Edward saying this is like he’s patting himself on the back for his self control. Because as a man, he can’t help but want to have sex with Bella. But apparently Bella’s desire to have sex with him is something to apologize for. Not to mention, she manages to spike his sexual desire by merely being a woman (albeit one with a super special smell, wtf?). And that is her fault.

Sex is not a decision teens should make lightly, and it's nice that Meyer wants to show them that you can be in love without having sex, but I think the harm rather outweighs the good in this case. Not to mention how the characters fit nicely into ye olde gender roles. Bella is the cook, the nurturer, the damsel in distress, and later even child-bearer while Edward is a manly man who saves and protects women when he's not making them feel like absolute shit and/or skeeving them the hell out.

Also I saw very little motivation for Edward's affections aside from "Bella's hawt". In fact, there seems to be very little motivation for any of the boys interested in her. As for Bella and Edward, they certainly don't seem to connect on an intellectual level, and why should they, given their age difference, because no matter how much the characters and first person prose try to tell us Bella is mature for her age, it just doesn't seem so. Basically their whole relationship is completely unbalanced; the two are not at all on equal footing, reinforcing the idea that men and women cannot be equal in a relationship either in power or intelligence.

This is also brings me to the idea of “love at first sight”. Edward falls in love with Bella pretty much the instant he sees her. He falls totally in love with her despite knowing absolutely nothing about her. And yet, despite her being plain and him never having spoken to her, he is protective and obsessed with her completely. I understand this is a fantasy of a relationship, but I’ve seen Harlequins try harder to create some sense of compatibility between their characters. And actually, none of the boys who vie for Bella’s affections do something as insane as getting to know her first.

Twilight is the worst of all the things it tries to be. It’s a bad vampire novel, it’s a bad romance, and it’s bad teen fiction. The vampires serve no real purpose to the book, other than to be “cool” or “hot”, and they are even stripped of their basic vampire identities. As a romance, the book fails because the relationship is abusive and the sexual aspects are seen as dirty and wrong rather than titillating. And the messages it gives to its teen audience are wholly irresponsible and set back women’s sexual freedom a few hundred years. The only thing Twilight succeeds at is being far more popular than its writing or premise should allow.

Themes:

Books

,

Sci-fi / Fantasy

,

Young Adult / Children

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Guy

at 01:40 on 2009-12-21

I kept my eyes down on the reading list the teacher had given me. It was fairly basic: Bronte, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Faulkner. I’d already read everything. That was comforting…and boring.

Yes, because any halfway smart teenage girl would have read and understood the complete works of Shakespeare, and as for Chaucer! Pfft, glance over it once and you know it all, of course it's going to be boring! Where's the experimental poetry written in Esperanto that every typical teenager hungers for in their unending quest for ever-more abstruse literary forms to satisfy their perfectly natural desire to move beyond something basic like Shakespeare or, *shudder*, Faulkner!

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at 02:06 on 2009-12-21I take issue with your belief that "most teenage girls" aren't capable of dealing with this kind of in a healthy way. This kind of thing is actually a big part of why the Twilight-hate phenomenon annoys me.

I haven't read them, but I've read a lot about them and a number of passages, and I have little doubt that they're as dreadful as people say. But there are a lot of dreadful things in the world. Similarly misanthropic and stereotypical fare aimed at male audiences--think james Bond or something--is almost never singled out for this kind of, in my mind, hyperbolic criticism. We say all the time, and rightly, that James Bond, or Generic Sci-Fi/Action movie glorifies violence and sexism in an inappropriate way, but rarely do we accuse a specific author of "damaging" the nations male youth. I think there's probably a substantial pool of savvy young women who know exactly what the score is but read Twilight anyway.

On the substance of the article: Counterfactual criticism alert!

I don't actually have a problem with the idea that she has no need to work on her school's curriculum; it seems like a fairly self-conscious plot device to facilitate the demands of this genre's plots.

Basically, creating a justification for why she doesn't have to work at schools so she has more time to devote the adventures and trials of the actual plot. Especially in a fantasy story involving our heroes being initiated into a "secret world," that seems pretty much necessary unless the story is *about* the difficulty of juggling magic and high school.

It comes off badly because Bella is such an annoying character, but I suggest that if she used the time she saved to compose music, build robots in her garage, or even flirt with some dude who was vaguely interesting, you wouldn't have objected.

Re: Belledward

I've not read the books and have no desire to, but Kit Whitfield has an interesting and more sympathetic take: she considers the book a depiction of a fantastic, diealized BDSM relationship:

"for instance, dragging her to the prom, Edward finds Bella exlaiming 'in horror' and 'mortified' - which he responds to with a masterful, 'Don't be difficult, Bella.' This would sound like genuine objections on her part if her real protest was at being taken to a dance she wants to avoid. But making her dance is merely a lily-white way of pressing her limits; when they get going it's like this:

"Edward." My throat was so dry I could only manage a whisper. " I honestly can't dance!" I could feel the panic bubbling up inside my chest.

"Dont worry, silly," he whispered back. "I can." He put my arms around his neck and lifted me to slide his feet under mine.

And then we were whirling, too.

"I feel like I'm five years old," I laughed after a few minutes of effortless waltzing.

Bella is scared, but when skilfully pushed over the edge she finds herself having a wonderful time; this is an interplay of dominance and submission, Edward making Bella do things she discovers she actually wanted, rather than serious coercion. Words like 'gulped' and 'pouted' keep coming up, which is hardly the language of genuine resistance. The real reason Bella was upset is not that he's ignored her insistence that she doesn't want to go, it's that she thought tonight might be the night he vamped her and he's disappointed her 'half-fearful hopes'. She doesn't mind Edward making her do stuff; what she minds is when he won't make her do it. And in fact, as I'll mention later, when they finally do get down to business, Bella seems quite capable of erotic pain as well."

Not having read the book, I don't know whether this is a plausible construction; I suspect that it's probably partially valid, but that the quality of the writing introduces some regrettable morals anyway.

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at 02:07 on 2009-12-21Sorry for the double post, but forgot to link Whitfield:

http://www.kitwhitfield.com/2009_08_01_archive.html

The post is "Innocent Libertinism" about halfway down the page.

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Arthur B

at 02:27 on 2009-12-21I posted

this

a while ago in the Playpen, but it's buried now, and it pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject. :)

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Arthur B

at 02:35 on 2009-12-21

We say all the time, and rightly, that James Bond, or Generic Sci-Fi/Action movie glorifies violence and sexism in an inappropriate way, but rarely do we accuse a specific author of "damaging" the nations male youth.

There is a difference, though. James Bond, Rambo, Conan and their ilk go around kicking ass, laying down the law, and generally exerting authority over the situation throughout their lives. They are active, independent, and don't wait around for permission to go and get what they want.

Bella, based on Viorica's assessment here, is almost the complete reverse of that. She is passive to a fault. She wanders around getting into trouble. Then Edward shows up and helps her out. She gets into more trouble. Edward shows up and helps her out again. She basically allows Edward a control of her life which, if it's like Viorica describes, is complete to an almost frightening degree.

Now, imagine a young man who goes through life with the attitude of James Bond. Not in terms of going around shooting people, that's clearly fantasy, but in terms of taking on Bond's no-nonsense, take-charge attitude. What you would have there is a lad who takes the lead, who is proactive, who goes out and grabs life by the throat! In other words,

management material!

That boy will go far!

Now, imagine a girl who goes through life with Bella's attitude. Would you consider this to be empowering, like the scenario I outline above, or

massively disempowering

?

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Melissa G.

at 02:41 on 2009-12-21

I take issue with your belief that "most teenage girls" aren't capable of dealing with this kind of in a healthy way. This kind of thing is actually a big part of why the Twilight-hate phenomenon annoys me.

It's completely fair of you to take issue with it. And honestly, it's not just the teenage girls that do it; I've heard adult fans talk about the books without hearing any indication that they understand that Edward would be a horrible boyfriend in real life. And after hearing teenage girls in the school where I teach trying to defend the horrible behavior of their bfs to each other ("But you don't get WHY he cheated on me. Really, it's okay."), I'd rather lean on the side of caution with that one, personally.

it seems like a fairly self-conscious plot device to facilitate the demands of this genre's plots.

The problem is, I really don't read it that way at all. The book pretty much takes place exclusively in her school or around regular teenage activities. As far the first book goes, until the end, it's very much grounded in the every day. It's all focused around regular life: school and romance. So it would be completely natural to have her dealing with both homework and trying to have a social life. But, again, if she didn't come off so snotty about it, maybe I wouldn't care so much.

she considers the book a depiction of a fantastic, diealized BDSM relationship:

Oh, there's definitely some BD/fantasy rape aspects going on in there. A lot of romances fall into this trap, and this one is no different. Honestly, if this book weren't so popular, I wouldn't even give it a second glance. I'd just chalk it up to another bad romance novel with vampires. The fact that it has exploded this way makes me feel the need to point out its extreme flaws whenever I can b/c I'm confrontation that way. :-)

@Arthur

I loved that comic. It made me giggle.

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Melissa G.

at 02:42 on 2009-12-21Wrong author, Arthur, but I forgive you. :-)

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Melissa G.

at 02:48 on 2009-12-21

Edward making Bella do things she discovers she actually wanted, rather than serious coercion.

Sorry for multiple posts, but I just want to point out that the problem with this kind of thing is that it skates dangerously close to "No means yes." And while a common fantasy!rape aspect, it does not translate well into real life.

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Arthur B

at 02:59 on 2009-12-21

Wrong author, Arthur, but I forgive you. :-)

A sure sign that I've been staying up too late revising. Goodnight all!

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at 04:19 on 2009-12-21Melissa,

Re: "No means yes" -- first, let me say that I absolutely have no illusions about Stphanie Myers as a person. She publicly and repeatedly espouses destructive and horrifying values, and her own statements to the effect that Bella and Edward's is an unqualified ideal are problematic.

Setting her aside though and looking at the text--well, it depends on who you think it's talking to. Kit Whitfield's argument is that, just as erotica aimed at vanilla audiences often glosses over some or all of the anxiety, the miscommunication, the STI risk, and the need to learn what a new partner needs, letting our heroes have good sex the first time out, BDSM erotica omits the negotiation, safewords, and so on that are required for safe and healthy BDSM practice in the real world.

So then what do you make of its popularity? There's certainly an argument to be made that it's fandom is so ubiquitous it's obviously not *only* being appreciated by the kink community, or even by people with kinks they're no conscious of, but that on the contrary its phenomenal popularity is a sign that our culture, problematically, assumes female submission as a default value. It even sounds to me like because Ms. Myers didn't *intend* to write a BDSM Romance, the text itself blurs the lines between consensual BDSM and abuse in a skeevy way.

That said,I'm attracted to the BDSM interpretation because, well, I have friends who like Twilight and I'd like to think better of their taste. And while this can't be the entire explanation, I do think that these kinds of kinks are a lot more common than anybody lets on, and so I don't think the mainstreaming of kink, even femsub, is a harm *per se* and I think a careful critic can, and should, criticize the flaws in this particular book without condemning all femsub erotica.

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at 04:30 on 2009-12-21

I've not read the books and have no desire to, but Kit Whitfield has an interesting and more sympathetic take: she considers the book a depiction of a fantastic, diealized BDSM relationship:

So this is probably a bit off topic and (disclaimer) I don't speak from experience but from some research. As far as I understand what makes a healthy BDSM relationship is the knowledge and communication.

You don't just find yourself in a such a relationship (unromatic I know) you go into the relationship with the foreknowledge that you are entering a BDSM relationship with previously discussed and set up fail-safes so you and your partner don't end up crossing any lines. Which is what is missing in Twilight (and 1 million other romance novels). It's all the titillation of BDSM without any of the foundations that make it safe and fun.

So while I don't fault Twilight for it's romanticized BDSM it is part of whole genre of romantic BDSM and fantasy!rape. I don't think I could call it a good representation of a functioning BDSM relationship.

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Melissa G.

at 04:33 on 2009-12-21

So then what do you make of its popularity?

I imagine it's the same reason that we find this "BDSM/fantasy!rape" in the majority of romance novels. I'm not a psychologist or sociologist, but I can make a guess where the attraction comes from - even to someone who doesn't have that "kink".

The fantasy!rape situation allows for two things. 1) The woman doesn't have to admit to wanting sex and thus is spared the shame of having sexual desire. (She shouldn't have this shame, but because of things like Victorian age repression, a lot of women do.) and 2) It gives something of an ego boast to think that you are so sexy/amazing that he just can't control himself and must have you NOW! (Not to mention the long-standing idea that women are only worthwhile if they're attractive and what's a better gauge of your attractiveness than having a guy unable to control his sexual desires around you).

I definitely think the attraction to the fantasy!rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views women's sexuality. But sadly, I can totally see the attraction in these ideas, and I know I'm not alone. I mean, most romance is written by women for women and includes - what would be in the real world - very self-destructive behaviors. "No means yes" being the major one. And the thing is, I find nothing wrong with women taking private delight in this idea as long as they know full well that they are reading trashy romance novels and that this is a FANTASY.

The problem I have with Twilight falling into this category of romance is that it's marketed toward teens rather than adults, and it pretend to have wholesome, positive messages toward sex like, "Don't have sex before marriage".

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Melissa G.

at 04:58 on 2009-12-21And I want to clarify that I'm not saying that people who partake in BDSM are in some way perpetrating "negative female beahavior" or anything. What they are doing is between two consenting partners who have discussed all this beforehand. And I have no problem with BDSM and those who do it.

I'm speaking directly to why fantasy!rape is such an attractive idea to women.

**I'm going to bed so it may be a while before I'm able to respond again, fyi.

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Rami

at 05:13 on 2009-12-21The impression I'm getting from this discussion is that interpreting it as an idealized dom/sub relationship would assume a level of relative sensibility and communication between the people involved that isn't actually supported by the text. Which makes said interpretation rather problematic. Or have I missed something?

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at 05:24 on 2009-12-21

The impression I'm getting from this discussion is that interpreting it as an idealized dom/sub relationship would assume a level of relative sensibility and communication between the people involved that isn't actually supported by the text. Which makes said interpretation rather problematic. Or have I missed something?

yes or at least that is what I was awkwardly aiming at.

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at 05:25 on 2009-12-21@Ninjacatman

What you say about BDSM is also how I understand the matter to be. I tried to say as much somewhere in my wall of text. The trick is, while communication and trust are the difference between BDSM play and abuse, they're also the difference between a good vanilla relationship and a shitty one.

Erotic fiction generally doesn't bother to depict all of the set-up work required for a healthy vanilla relationship, so it seems to me that BDSM erotica should get the same fantasy-license--at least when it's clearly labeled. The trouble with Twilight is that it isn't marketed as BDSM and its author doesn't acknowledge it as a kinky relationship.

@Melissa G.

I don't think children are as in need of protection as you seem to feel. Sure, some children get bad ideas from things they read: I got plenty of bad ideas about life from my own fantasy diet, though I like to think I didn't absorb too much of the misogyny.

But teenagers can be pretty savvy readers, and especially in the age of internet fandom I think it's pretty obvious that teenagers can engage critically with their favorite texts and decide what they like and what they don't. Furthermore, setting aside the example of Twilight specifically, i'm concerned that you feel fantasy!rape is something only adult women should be permitted to read about.

Teenagers are people who are growing into their sexuality and exploring their sexual imagination, and I think consciously chose "exploring" over "forming." Most of the kinky people I know well enough to discuss this with reported basically having their kinks from a very early age, often before they had a real awareness of sexuality. Sure, the way our media sexualises violence probably shapes the way some teenagers perceive sexuality, but it's important to remember that teendom isn't any child's first exposure to the media; those ideas have been around for a while.

On the basis of the anecdotal evidence available to me, I think a substantial number of people reach the age of 13 with a pre-existing and life-long attraction to fantasy!rape. To tell those people of either gender that they, unlike their vanilla peers, don't deserve access to sexually compelling literature seems a little repressive.

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Rami

at 05:31 on 2009-12-21

To tell those people of either gender that they, unlike their vanilla peers, don't deserve access to sexually compelling literature seems a little repressive.

I don't think anyone has suggested that so far.

I think a substantial number of people reach the age of 13 with a pre-existing and life-long attraction to fantasy!rape

That seems like an odd conclusion to draw, and while I obviously don't know the anecdotal evidence available to you, I personally would find such a conclusion extremely dubious.

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at 05:33 on 2009-12-21Melissa,

Sorry for double--post, I didn't see your latest comment before posting mine, which reassures me that your heart is in the right place. I stand by the substance of the comment though: Twilight may be problematic, but to state as you seem to that fantasy!rape is not appropriate material for teenage girls is, in my opinion, too far.

@Rami,

Idealized, not ideal. It's not a depiction of a relationship that would be healthy in real life; it's a relationship that only works in a fantasy world where you and your partner magically want the same thing without discussion.

Rennaissance fair fetishists don't (usually) read stories about people dressing as kings and queens, they read stories about fantasy!kings and fantasy!queens. Similarly, people who like pretending to be abused in real life would generally prefer to read about fantasy!abuse than other people pretending to be abused.

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at 05:35 on 2009-12-21

Erotic fiction generally doesn't bother to depict all of the set-up work required for a healthy vanilla relationship, so it seems to me that BDSM erotica should get the same fantasy-license--at least when it's clearly labeled. The trouble with Twilight is that it isn't marketed as BDSM and its author doesn't acknowledge it as a kinky relationship.

Yes, sorry I hadn't realized you posted again. My point isn't that it's bad erotica but that I don't know if I would feel comfortable calling it idealized or a good BDSM relationship rather than just calling it good erotica (which often seems to be based around bad relationships).

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Melissa G.

at 05:44 on 2009-12-21

i'm concerned that you feel fantasy!rape is something only adult women should be permitted to read about.

Oh, not at all! Teens should be free to explore and develop their sexuality as they come into it. I'd rather they be informed than not. But these romanticized texts of "fantasy!rape" and "fantasy!BDSM" need to be categorized as such. Twilight is definitely not. It's packaged as a loving, ideal relationship.

As someone who had been attracted to the idea of fantasy!rape early on as well as being a feminist, I had to really work through these things in my mind to try and understand where the attraction came from. And I had to work to draw that line in my mind that this would not be acceptable in "real life" but as a "fantasy" is fine. (Like I said, BDSM in it's true form is fine in real life b/c it follows certain rules and guidelines in its community that are not present in its fantasy/romanticized incarnations.)

But I do have to admit that the idea of someone writing erotica *marketed* toward teens makes me a little squeamish. If teens find erotica themselves and buy it full well understanding what it is, I'm fine with that. What I object to the use of it in Twilight b/c of how Twilight is packaged.

**Okay, to bed for real this time. Back later.

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Rami

at 05:52 on 2009-12-21

Idealized, not ideal. It's not a depiction of a relationship that would be healthy in real life; it's a relationship that only works in a fantasy world

Ah, I think I see where you're coming from. In which case my objection becomes the same as Melissa's: everywhere I've seen it being pushed, it's being pushed as an ideal -- something to aspire to, something that could happen, something that people should actively search for. I've actually spoken to adults who lauded it as a perfect relationship that they wished they could have found. And that's absurd, and simply reinforces already-unrealistic portrayals of what relationships should be.

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at 06:55 on 2009-12-21I have to go with the person said that all the anti-Twilight feeling based on the idea that the books are so damaging to young, impressionable women is bothersome. Dare I even say that that mentality - that girls need to be shielded in a way that boys never seem to need to be - is anti-feminist? Because it implies a quality of moral/mental character exists in men that is lacking in women. To use the James Bond to Sam Whittacker examples: Both are high-fantasy male characters (starring in badly written, plot-holed filled stories) that have the potential to influence little boys as badly as Bella is supposed to influence little girls. But very few people seem to think that teenage boys need to be told that while slapping women around worked for Sean Connery, it won't work for them/land them in jail. And Sam Whittacker, probably the most repulsive male wish-fulfillment character of the decade, doesn't come with a cautionary sign either. Don't let me touch Watchmen, or Harry Potter and the bad messages Rowling sends out to both boys *and* girls e.g. You "mature" when you fool around with a girl that likes you to get the attention of the one you do. Oops, I gues I did touch it after all.

What I'm trying to say in a rather long-winded way is that it's hard for me to be suddenly upset about Twilight's negative messages when, in my opinion, more damaging media works have been existence and will no doubt, continue to be in existence, with nary a comment. Neither can I help but wonder if the pro-feminist criticism is actually walking on some anti-feminist legs: Twilight is targeted because its female author wrote a female-viewpoint story for a female audience and has had the affrontery to, against all odds, be successful.

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Melissa G.

at 07:25 on 2009-12-21

But very few people seem to think that teenage boys need to be told that while slapping women around worked for Sean Connery, it won't work for them/land them in jail.

See, in my opinion, yes. Yes, this really does need to be told to young boys. But, the other thing is, that James Bond movies are not *targeted* nor *marketed* to young boys. Neither was Watchmen, which I hated. They are marketed toward adults, and are rated as such. If kids see them and get ideas in their heads they aren't mature enough to fully understand, I really do believe that someone needs to sit down and set them straight.

And, oh, god, yes, Harry Potter bothers me IMMENSELY. But I'm not talking about JKR here. I'm talking about Twilight and Meyer.

Twilight is targeted because its female author wrote a female-viewpoint story for a female audience and has had the affrontery to, against all odds, be successful.

The reason I take issue with her being a female writer is because I do feel like she should have more sense than to write what she does. The same way I think Rowling should have more sense than to write what she does about women. And, yes, men shouldn't do it either, and that's why we're far more likely to call them out on it when they do. But we seem to like to give women a pass for writing sexist material because "women can't possibly be sexist!" Which is completely untrue. And that's the only reason I mentioned her gender at all.

Twilight has a rather irresponsible, damaging message for everyone when it tries to call Bella/Edward an ideal relationship. And putting that aside, it's badly written and poorly conceived. It's just plain not a good book. And part of that has a lot to do with it saying it's doing one thing and unintentionally doing another - the very same thing we all take issue with Harry Potter for doing. So I don't understand why it's acceptable to attack Rowling and not Meyer.

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at 07:45 on 2009-12-21Rowling is an excelletn parallel though; there's plenty of Rowling criticism on this website calling it badly written, the characters awful and unappealing, and the moral message hrrifying. But I've never seen anyone, on this site or really anywhere, call Harry Potter "damaging" and suggest that it's dangerous for kids to read it.

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Melissa G.

at 08:01 on 2009-12-21If people took the morality lessons of Harry Potter and emulated them, I would call that "damaging" personally. And to bring back something Rami said above:

I've actually spoken to adults who lauded it as a perfect relationship that they wished they could have found.

This is what is damaging. This is an actual problem. If you can read Twilight and dismiss it as trashy romantic fun, I have no problem with that. It's the above behavior - wanting to emulate the Bella/Edward relationship and have it for yourself - that I find so disturbing.

I'm not saying people

shouldn't

read Twilight. I'm saying they should fully recognize and understand it as a fantasy of a relationship. If they don't, that's when it gets damaging.

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Arthur B

at 08:11 on 2009-12-21Like I allude to above with my second comment on the article (waaaaay, long ago), I think the reason that people bring up the "damaging" tag more often with Twilight than with HP is that the damage which could come from someone taking the lessons of Twilight to heart is very, very obvious. Women already get trapped in abusive relationships with controlling men far, far too often; we really don't need more media telling us that Abuse Is Love, Freedom Is Slavery, and Ignorance Is Strength.

That said, I do think Potter has messages which are equally damaging - I'm particularly concerned by the fact that it seems to say "If the voice of authority is ugly and telling you things you don't want to hear, it's evil, if it seems like a kindly old man who occasionally keeps things secret from you for your own good, it's OK". But I would argue that you need to look at Potter far more carefully to find the dubious messages than you do Twilight, where the troubling factor is the

very premise

of the story.

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at 09:08 on 2009-12-21I'm a little bit uncomfortable continuing this discussion. I got into it for the wrong reasons (emotional annoyance at reading *yet more Twilight bashing* coupled with a joy in nitpicking--did you know, for instance, that your assertion that vampires shouldn't be able to go out in the sun is contradicted by none other than the original Dracula?). I haven't read the book in question, which puts in the position of arguing about the book Ms. Whitfield suggested exists, not a book I know was actually written.

I also have every conceivable conflict of interest: I'm a barely-ex-teenage man with minor dominant fantasies in a relationship with a woman with submissive fantasies dating from her early childhood. My objectivity on this issue is probably thoroughly compromised.

I feel the need to lay that out there because what I have to say is somewhat confrontational: Your most recent comment, that you "have no problem" with reading twilight as trashy fun, and are only criticizing those who "laud it as a perfect relationship." I don't think that's an accurate summary of what you've posted.

It's true that's how you begin the OP, with an introduction I agree with absolutely. But the post seems to me to take a turn sideways here:

As an adult reading it as a guilty pleasure, you can indulge yourself in the James Dean-esque bad boy with a heart of gold thing and then let it go and return to reality. I don’t believe that most teenage and pre-teens girls have the emotional maturity that would allow them to do this.

In later comments, you added:

Oh, there's definitely some BD/fantasy rape aspects going on in there. A lot of romances fall into this TRAP (emphasis mine)

"I definitely think the attraction to the fantasy!rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views women's sexuality."

I'll agree with you as long as you strictly mean fantasy RAPE, but although you've used the terms interchangably (and I've followed suit), rape-play is not the whole of BDSM. I do believe that rape fantasy would go away in an egalitarian society; ritualized submission would not.

The Ms. Whitfield quote wasn't a scene in which Edward's fangs/dick were even an issue. It was about him managing her life, making her choices for her. This is, of course, the manifestation of thousands of years of patriarchal culture filtered through Myers' Mormon upbringing, and the author seems wrongheadedly to think that this is the natural order of things. But, it's also a compelling fantasy in its own right. I've had submissive fantasies in the past as well, and as someone who agonizes over small decisions and generally frets my life away, I'm prepared to claim that surrendering control is a fantasy whose appeal is not inherently rooted in sexism.

The problem I have with Twilight falling into this category of romance is that it's marketed toward teens rather than adults, and it pretend to have wholesome, positive messages toward sex...

"I do have to admit that the idea of someone writing erotica *marketed* toward teens makes me a little squeamish"

I'll try my hardest here not to put words in your mouth. I wrote and erased a few sentences of the form "it seems you have a problem with..." and then "I think the basic issues is that we don't see eye to eye on..." Let me just say that it is these statements that comments have raised my eyebrows and leave it at that. The following also caught my attention:

"As someone who *had been* (mine) attracted to the idea of fantasy!rape early on as well as being a feminist"

Do you mean to imply that you are no longer attracted to fantasy!rape? If so, how do you feel about this? Do you consider it a point of pride, or feel more mature for having outgrown it?

Finally, I wanted to comment on this:

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 09:11 on 2009-12-21Wow, somehow the end of my comment got click-dragged into the middle. I hate my touchpad. And need sleep. The discussion of this line: "I definitely think the attraction to the fantasy!rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views women's sexuality."

Was supposed to be the end of the post. The post continues from:

Oh, there's definitely some BD/fantasy rape aspects going on in there. A lot of romances fall into this TRAP (emphasis mine)

directly to

"The problem I have with Twilight falling into this category of romance is that it's marketed toward teens rather than adults, and it pretend to have wholesome, positive messages toward sex..."

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http://katsullivan.insanejournal.com/

at 09:45 on 2009-12-21Transformers, Watchmen (and the whole comic-book industry) and Harry Potter (Rowling was asked to use de-gendered initials so as not to frighten away the testosterone contingent) are targeted and marketed towards young boys. As for James Bond, some of the movies have been severely edited in the past (Goldeneye, License to Kill) to ensure that they do not exceed a PG-13 rating. So young boys may not be a primary target, but they're still part of the catchment market.

I'm not sure that the "women should have more sense" argument is one that empowers women in anyway. It's basically judging women on a different standard from men which is part of the inequality that feminism fights against. My argument isn't that Meyer isn't sexist by virtue of being a woman, or writing a woman's story. My argument is that I don't see this level of outrage directed at male-created & male-targeted stories. It is harmless-enough-to-ignore fantasy when it's men who are making it, but when it's made by a woman, it's suddenly dangerous and book-burning-worthy.

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Arthur B

at 10:10 on 2009-12-21@katsullivan:

It is harmless-enough-to-ignore fantasy when it's men who are making it, but when it's made by a woman, it's suddenly dangerous and book-burning-worthy.

Last time I'm going to repeat myself on this topic, I promise: all of the examples cited of stories aimed at young boys/men involve male protagonists who are quite specifically empowered in the texts concerned. (With the arguable exception of Harry Potter, but in that case he's going about doing precisely what an older wiser man wanted him to do.) The complaints about Twilight tend to centre on how much Bella is

dis

empowered. Given that we live in a society which empowers men to the hilt but isn't very good at empowering women, I think mildly different treatment of the subject matter is warranted.

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Arthur B

at 10:12 on 2009-12-21(Which isn't, of course, to say that the fantasies promoted for young men are beyond criticism on the basis that they empower men at the expense of women. They absolutely should be criticised on that basis. But that's a different criticism from saying "this story encourages people to surrender what empowerment they have.")

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http://katsullivan.insanejournal.com/

at 12:12 on 2009-12-21I've always seen how much or how little Bella is empowered as a subjective thing because the anti-Bella arguments that populate the Net have run the spectrum of her agency in the story, from complaining about it being too much to being too little.

What I have noticed is the common denominator is the bad example Bella and Twilight gives to women. Regardless of how empowered Bond, Potter or Whittacker are, they aren't giving good examples to men, either.

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Arthur B

at 12:18 on 2009-12-21Do you have a link to any of these arguments that say Bella is overempowered? I'd be interested to see them, most of the criticism I've seen takes the opposite view.

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Wardog

at 12:25 on 2009-12-21Ye Gods, I go to bed for one night and this happens.

First of all:

@Arthur

Firstly, James Bond is fairly blatantly a sexual masochist - I don't know how that fits into the idea of empowering role models for men. Not that I'm not saying sexual masochists can't be empowering or role models, it's just a bit off the beaten path (lol) for aspirational literature.

Secondly, is there any problem, inherently, with what might be considered "non empowering fantasies "for women? I mean, there's definitely a distinction between "you should be like this" and sheer fantasy-space, which is how most people see Twilight.

@Orionsnebula

Thanks for all your coments by the way, all very interesting, especially the link to Ms Whitfield. I tend to roll my eyes at Twilight but I'm not necessarily as incensed about it as Melissa - I actually enjoyed the first book, and thought it was a fun fantasy, but then I got rather squicked by the later books when I realised the problems associated with Meyer's profound lack of self-awareness. The thing is, as you yourself, acknowledge (and I'm sorry I lost the direct quote in all the text), although Whitfield's reading is compelling, it is not actually *directly* supported by the text, it's something you can read out of it in an effort to make it more interesting / acceptable. A bit like The Taming of the Shrew - you can read that as a consensual BDSM relationship between two difficult adults who have finally met their match (and I saw a version of it that *really* played this up - lots of pretty explicit hints to show they both knew entirely what they were up to, and having lots of fun with it) OR you can read it offensive, patriarchal, misogynist propaganda.

I don't have any problems with the idea that Bella/Edward ARE in a BDSM relationship, I just think that you've got a problem if they're UNCONSCIOUSLY involved in one, and the author has no idea what she's doing.

Again, I have no problem with teenagers confronting these issues per se but I don't think via Twilight is the route.

And the fact that Bella is as wet as an October afternoon (metaphorically I mean) further compromises the BDSM reading - I don't have much insight into the submissive mindset myself but I think most people would agree that submissive women are strong, capable and independent who *choose* to submit. Bella seems genuinely incapable of staying alive most of the time - there'd be very pleasure little in the submission of someone so blatantly rubbish :) Sorry, that's a slightly frivolous point but ultimately reading Bella as a submissive does no kindness to submissives.

And finally: @Melissa et al

The romance/rape device. Come on folks, get your heads out of the 70s. This is a *MUCH LESS COMMON* device than people seem to realise. In fact, I can't remember the last time I encountered it in a modern romance (oh, wait I can, it's Claiming the Courtesan) - if there is an element of sexual submission, texts are at a much greater liberty to address it directly, rather cloaking it behind a facade of rape fantasy. Again, you can still find rape fantasies if you're looking for them (see CtC above) but, again, they tend to be served up with self-knowledge, self-awareness and in much more "healthy" fantasy contexts. The problem with the "rape" fantasy is that it often attempted to address in an underhand way a lot of seemingly less acceptable fantasies - the idea that a man was so into he couldn't stop him, sexual submission, abdication of responsibilities to pleasure etc. etc. It's not a fantasy about rape per se, it's a fantasy about other things connected to the idea of being raped. Nowadays these ideas can be directly addressed and explored so the 'need' for the hero to rape the heroine has diminished.

I most assuredly don't believe that fantasy rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views female sexuality. I don't think you give women enough credit for their fantasies, and I do, in fact, believe it can be perfectly healthy fantasy.

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Arthur B

at 12:34 on 2009-12-21

Secondly, is there any problem, inherently, with what might be considered "non empowering fantasies "for women? I mean, there's definitely a distinction between "you should be like this" and sheer fantasy-space, which is how most people see Twilight.

I think the main thrust of Melissa's argument is that there are a disturbing number of people who really do see Twilight as an ideal for living, though.

There is, of course, absolutely no problem with fantasy-space taken as fantasy space. And there will always, of course, be a certain proportion of an audience that takes a fantasy outside fantasy-space, but that's their problem, not the author's. I suppose the real question is whether the proportion of Twilight's readers to take the ideas out of fantasy-space and decide that Bella is someone they should try to be is more or less the proportion you'd expect, or whether it's disproportionately large. This is not a question which anecdotal evidence can really answer, and until we set up the Ferret Statistics Bureau is probably not something we're likely to sort out here...

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Melissa G.

at 12:39 on 2009-12-21@orions

I stated many times that I have no problem with BDSM in its true form. It follows specific rules and guidelines that make it safe and enjoyable for those involved. Do I partake in it personally? No, I don't. But I have no problem with those who do.

The issue I was addressing - and I should have made it more clear - is the romanticized versions of BDSM and rape that you see in romance novels all the time. Because I think there is a big difference between not only real BDSM and fantasy!BDSM but also between fantasy!BDSM and fantasy!rape.

And I did purposely clarify that I wasn't trying to say that those who practice BDSM in real life are somehow sexist or anti-feminist - I was referring specifically to where the attraction to fantasy!rape comes from. And also there's nothing wrong with being attracted to fantasy!rape material.

And yes, I still read manga that reeks of fantasy!rape. But the fantasy!rape phenomena to me is completely different from rape-play, etc in real life because in the story these are not people who are consciously taking part in said behavior. It's just plain "actual rape" in which the person being violated actually doesn't mind so much. Fantasy!rape is just that. A fantasy. And it should never be confused with reality or - in my opinion - rape play between two consenting partners. Because while I enjoy reading about it, I certainly have no intentions or desire to act it out in real life.

Re: Dracula, it's been a while since I read it, but I'm pretty sure the vampires could not go out during the day, which is what I specified was a criteria.

I'm honestly willing to just agree to disagree with you at this point if you'd be more comfortable putting the conversation to bed.

My argument is that I don't see this level of outrage directed at male-created & male-targeted stories.

You don't? Because I certainly have. On this very site, for example. I feel we're far more likely to call men out on sexist behavior than we are women, and that *is* holding them to a different standard. Maybe I shouldn't have specified her gender; maybe I should have just said that the book was sexist and leave it at that. Because whether or not the writer was male or female, the book has some out-dated views about sex and sexuality. I'd be just as angry about this if it had been written by a male.

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Melissa G.

at 12:46 on 2009-12-21

This is a *MUCH LESS COMMON* device than people seem to realise.

The thing, Kyra, I read a lot of Boys Love manga, and it's all over the place in that. To the point where it starts to get disturbing. But I do admit that it's more common the more old-fashioned romance novels, and I'll take your word for it as I assume you read more romance than I do.

It's not a fantasy about rape per se, it's a fantasy about other things connected to the idea of being raped.

And yes, I totally agree with this.

I most assuredly don't believe that fantasy rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views female sexuality. I don't think you give women enough credit for their fantasies, and I do, in fact, believe it can be perfectly healthy fantasy.

I think it can be a healthy fantasy too. And as I said, I was merely trying to figure out where the attraction comes from. I'm not trying to submit that idea as fact.

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Melissa G.

at 13:03 on 2009-12-21I just want to clarify that I have no problem with anyone's personal fantasies or kinks. There's nothing unhealthy about having them. And if I insinuated to anyone that they should be ashamed or embarrassed about their fantasies, I do sincerely apologize.

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Wardog

at 13:12 on 2009-12-21I'm pretty sure nobody is genuinely annoyed - and equally pretty sure you weren't disparaging anybody's sexual preferences. I read through this when I woke up this morning and it seemed like lively discussion. Honestly, after the Graceling fiasco we're all way too nervy about stepping on each other's toes :)

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Melissa G.

at 14:28 on 2009-12-21I also realize that I wasn't being entirely clear when I said:

I definitely think the attraction to the fantasy!rape is embedded in the negative ways society treats/views women's sexuality.

I don't mean that having that fantasy or enjoying that fantasy makes you inherently sexist. I was trying to come at it from an extremely analytical point of view and how it works on a subconscious level. I think the attraction arises more out of a "coping mechanism" to the Madonna/Whore complex women have to live with every day and not that women who have these fantasies are in some way sexist. That wasn't at all what I meant to imply. I hope that makes it clearer what I was going for there and that I didn't just dig myself in deeper.

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Sister Magpie

at 15:41 on 2009-12-21Regarding Bella being over-empowered, I wonder if the point isn't that she's over-special? Doesn't she gain superspecial vampire powers, and two of them instead of one, and have no trouble controlling them right off? I would assume that's what people are referring to--but within the text she presumably remains as passive as ever in terms of her life.

I have a friend who was recently questioning the hatred of Twilight in terms of asking: How come when something is known as being loved by teenaged boys it's generally considered cool, but if it's known as loved by teenaged girls it's lame lame lame? I couldn't help but think of this here with the discussion of how there's less concern that boys be sheilded from something like HP--especially since I can understand the double standard in a way.

But part of it, for me, is maybe that I do feel a little embarassed when this kind of teen girl fantasy gets so popular. At least one conservative politician jumped on it as proof that despite what those unnatural feminists say this just proves that what girls really want is a man to obsess over their beauty and protect them while they are passively loved.

Which is maybe part of the danger. Not only do embarassing male adolescent fantasies tend to tread more into the danger zone of disrespecting other people while the female version comes close to disrespecting yourself, but girl fantasies--no matter if they are just a healthy part of their exploration of their own sexuality--is more likely to be manipulated to serve men. If we imagine a man and a woman both hopelessly stuck in immature fantasies the woman tends to risk ending up in a worse position.

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Arthur B

at 15:58 on 2009-12-21

Not only do embarassing male adolescent fantasies tend to tread more into the danger zone of disrespecting other people while the female version comes close to disrespecting yourself, but girl fantasies--no matter if they are just a healthy part of their exploration of their own sexuality--is more likely to be manipulated to serve men. If we imagine a man and a woman both hopelessly stuck in immature fantasies the woman tends to risk ending up in a worse position.

Thank you! This is a much better statement of the position I was trying to put forward. The man might disrespect other people, but he won't take any shit; it might be bad, in the sense that he's being horrible to people, but it won't be personally damaging to him, just the people he hurts as he cuts a swathe through life.

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 18:56 on 2009-12-21Melissa,

I appreciate all the disclaimers, I really do; I'm not accusing you of having your heart in the wrong place or wishing ill on anyone in the kink community.

I *think* we have a basic disagreement about childhood and adolescence, and the role sex, litereature, or sex literature plays in them.

I don't understand, for instance, why you would consider teen-targeted erotica, for instance, to be a squick; I think if written by someone other than Stephanie Myers it has the possibility to do a lot of good.

I can't point to a specific proposal you make about childrearing that I would object to--talking with kids about problematic movies, saying they should be free to explore their sexuality, and so on are all things I want to hear. But, probably because this started as a critique of a book, not a manifesto for youth education, I don't feel I have a coherent picture of how you think kids should interact with books. To be honest, what you've said still seems to me to be contradictory.

For example, you've said that teenagers should be free to explore sexuality through literature, but that writing erotica specifically for teenagers squicks you; to me, those positions aren't fully compatible. I don't know how it can be wrong to sell someone something it's okay for them to buy; for every market of readers there's a genre produced to meet their expectations. And honestly, I think a conscientious YA-targeted erotica writer could produce stuff that was better for kids than adult-targeted erotica which would naturally be about a different set of concerns.

Basically there's nothing more I can say at this point; some of your comments seem to have implications that trouble me, but I can't articulate the problem without putting words in your mouth. And it's difficult to get at the distinction I'm seeing between our stances on what's appropriate for teenagers without lapsing into scoring points by calling someone a prude.

In conclusion, I think I've said all I have to say about Twilight. I think there's room for an interesting conversation to be had about children and fiction in general, but that wasn't what the article was about. If you should choose at some point to explain in detail how you think children should approach fiction and what you think is acceptable to market to them, I'd read it with great interest.

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http://baihehua.livejournal.com/

at 18:56 on 2009-12-21Wow; long and meandering discussion.

I don't see anyone stating here that Twilight is a wonderful work of literature. There seems to be a consensus that Bella and Edward's relationship is not healthy. (If you want to view it as a BDSM relationship, I think that's fine, and there is certainly nothing wrong with BDSM in real life- with safewords and such-, but Bella and Edward's relationship as presented in the book does not seem healthy.)

I think one of the main problems (if not THE main problem) is the fact that this story is targeted to children- specifically prepubescent and pubescent girls. Girls are already being bombarded with social pressures to be meek, submissive, "feminine", etc; Meyer's work is certainly far from unique in this respect*. But Twilight is new, extremely popular, and sends this type of disempowering message in a very clear way. (This message, of course, is that it is perfectly acceptable for girls to wait for a man to protect them and make decisions for them.) Girls do not need any more messages to be docile little doormats, especially not from such popular sources.

The thing that I think most separates adult audiences from teen and preteen ones is that teens and children are still developing their opinions and beliefs about the world and themselves (discussed in many developmental analysis books). Whereas an adult can look at a character like Edward and think "he's hot/cute/sexy/such a bad boy, but I wouldn't want a boyfriend like him in real life", children and even many teens have a lot more trouble with that (not necessarily that they can't, but it's certainly harder). What the adult is doing there is interjecting his/her own outside beliefs ("I don't want a boyfriend like that"/"it's not okay for someone to act like that in real life") onto their understanding of this story. And that's great. But since children and many teens are still developing their beliefs, it is incredibly difficult for them to take still-forming opinions and contradict what the text seems to be saying. Twilight (or other materials) is much more likely to help *form* teens' beliefs about the world than it is to form adults'.

And that, I think, is the real problem. No one (that I know of, anyway) wants teens or children to emulate Bella's behavior (or Edward's, for that matter). But since teens and preteens are still developing their views of the world and themselves, they are much more likely to emulate or idolize these behaviors than adult readers would be.

As a result, I think authors of materials aimed at younger audiences need to be especially careful of negative messages their works may advocate. I'm sure most of these messages are completely unintentional, but authors (as responsible people) should try to be as aware as possible of what their material may be saying.

*I realize that these social messages are not as strong as they used to be, but they (like so many negative elements of society) are far from gone.

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Melissa G.

at 19:08 on 2009-12-21

I don't understand, for instance, why you would consider teen-targeted erotica, for instance, to be a squick;

Maybe we're defining erotica differently? In my mind erotica = a book written for the specific purpose of titillating and sexually arousing it's audience with sexually provocative scenes. Such as the book in Kyra's

latest review

. I don't think there's anything wrong with having sex scenes in teen books; if well written, they could be very beneficial. What bothers me is the idea of an adult writing a book whose *sole intent* is to try and sexually arouse teenagers. To me, that's squicky. It just is; I can't help it.

I think there's room for an interesting conversation to be had about children and fiction in general, but that wasn't what the article was about.

Yes, precisely. So while I am of course happy to discuss psychological/sociological issues with anyone, this really isn't the place for it. So I'd agree it's best to put the convo to rest.

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Arthur B

at 19:17 on 2009-12-21

I don't think there's anything wrong with having sex scenes in teen books; if well written, they could be very beneficial. What bothers me is the idea of an adult writing a book whose *sole intent* is to try and sexually arouse teenagers. To me, that's squicky. It just is; I can't help it.

I can see that. Adults writing books addressed to other adults with the intent of titillating or arousing them, and teenagers happening to chance across those books and enjoying them is one thing. Adults attempting to engage with the sexuality of teenagers on the level of titillation or arousal? Uh, not keen.

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 19:32 on 2009-12-21Arthur,

I couldn't agree less. Teenage sexuality is different from adult sexuality. Many can and will get something out of adult erotica, but teenagers as a group have different concerns and will find slightly different things appealing.

The most interesting part of Ms. Whitfield's article was the idea that Twilight and Flowers in the Attic embody a specifically *virginal* sexuality and that part of the challenge of writing sex scenes for kids is that many of them aren't familiar with the sensations of genital sex. The bruises and strained muscles and so on that Bella incurs when they do get down to banging, for instance, add a sensory dimension that kids will be familiar with.

So I do think that erotica for teenagers should be different from erotica for adults; plenty of teenagers seems to agree, choosing to participate in "lemon" fanfic communities rather than read mainstream erotica. But teen-for-teen erotica writers just produce an echo chamber where sexual ignorance and prejudices are amplified. And writing well is a skill developed over *years*.

Very few teenagers, in my opinion, are capable of producing honest, readable teen-targeted erotica; that's something that has to be left to adults with the perspective of age.

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Andy G

at 19:39 on 2009-12-21@ Arthur and Orionsnebula: I kind of agree with Orionsnebula here, I think in principle it's not really that different from the way the adult writers of something like Skins are tapping into teen fantasies. Adults writing erotica for teens is not in the same category as adults making sexual advances to teens, if that was an aspect you weren't keen on (though I may be putting words into your mouth there), any more than adults writing erotica for adults are doing so to their readers.

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 19:46 on 2009-12-21My name is Orion, by the way; My (defunct) blog was a joke on my name

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Arthur B

at 19:55 on 2009-12-21

Adults writing erotica for teens is not in the same category as adults making sexual advances to teens, if that was an aspect you weren't keen on (though I may be putting words into your mouth there), any more than adults writing erotica for adults are doing so to their readers.

You see, to me there's a difference between fiction with a heavily sexualised element which may titillate but doesn't have titillation as its main purpose (such as Skins, to use your example) and erotica, wherein sexual titillation is pretty much the entire purpose of the proceedings and any additional meaning is pretty much secondary.

I have never seen an example of an adult writing the latter for teenagers; I think it's the sort of thing that teenagers are better off exploring with other teenagers (such as on the lemon fic communities Orionsnebula refers to). I am unsure whether you could successfully pull it off without coming off as deeply creepy. I would love to hear about any counter-examples.

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Arthur B

at 19:59 on 2009-12-21(Though I want to stress that I don't think that intelligent, meaningful erotica is impossible - just that I would only classify as "erotica" fiction where the main purpose is titillation. Additional meaning can, and doubtless does, arise as an adjunct to this, but if the main purpose of the story isn't the arousal of the reader, what's the difference between erotica and normal fiction which includes sex scenes?)

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Robinson L

at 20:30 on 2009-12-21All right! I've been looking forward to this. Ptolemaues has been ranting about this series for over two years, and though I've never read any of it myself, I've picked up quite a lot second-hand from her and her fellow haters; and all this matches up pretty well with what I've gathered elsewhere.

She also

made a start

on

New Moon

, but she hasn't looked at it in months. (Unfortunate, as I enjoy her rants tremendously, but on the other hand I guess exposing herself to that stuff must be toxic to her health.) She also takes issue with Bella's treatment of Jessica, among other things.

[Bella} seems to have a bad enough relationship with her father that she calls him by his first name

Not sure about this; two of ptolemaeus' best friends call their fathers by their first names, and I don't think it's indicative of a bad relationship in either case. Then again, I presume Meyer never bothers to explain why Bella calls her father by his first name.

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http://ninjacatman.livejournal.com/

at 20:36 on 2009-12-21

[Bella} seems to have a bad enough relationship with her father that she calls him by his first name

From what I remember about the book (it's been a while) the way this is introduced it is meant to imply that Bella doesn't have a close relationship with her father.

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Melissa G.

at 20:51 on 2009-12-21

Not sure about this; two of ptolemaeus' best friends call their fathers by their first names, and I don't think it's indicative of a bad relationship in either case.

I feel like there was something in the book that hinted at this, but I don't have it in front of me to find out for sure. I remember distinctly being given the impression that she didn't get along with her father, and she does state that he doesn't like her calling him "Charlie". She says she can't do it in front of him. That to me is different from a consensual attitude toward it.

You see, to me there's a difference between fiction with a heavily sexualised element which may titillate but doesn't have titillation as its main purpose (such as Skins, to use your example) and erotica, wherein sexual titillation is pretty much the entire purpose of the proceedings and any additional meaning is pretty much secondary.

This was pretty much what I was getting at. The goal of erotica is not to "inform" (for lack of a better word), it's meant to "arouse". I think a teen fiction book that deals heavily with teenage sexuality as a theme and thus has a lot of sex scenes (which teens may or may not find titillating) is one thing and writing erotica for teens is another. The former is an exploratory look at sex between teens paying careful attention to what it's doing.

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Melissa G.

at 21:03 on 2009-12-21@Robinson L.:

Thanks for the link to your sister's lj entry! I got a kick out of that!

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Andy G

at 00:41 on 2009-12-22

I have never seen an example of an adult writing the latter for teenagers; I think it's the sort of thing that teenagers are better off exploring with other teenagers (such as on the lemon fic communities Orionsnebula refers to). I am unsure whether you could successfully pull it off without coming off as deeply creepy. I would love to hear about any counter-examples.

I know nothing about erotic fiction, my response was more to try and tease out if "creepiness" was the problem you were getting at, as I think it is an interesting question whether it would necessarily be an issue. Not an interesting question to which I have an answer however.

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Arthur B

at 01:35 on 2009-12-22Yes; I'm not satisfied that the best problem I can come up with in terms of adults writing out-and-out erotica for teens is "creepiness" - it's a bit Daily Mail isn't it? - which is why I would genuinely welcome anyone pointing out genuine examples of adults trying to write fiction which is primarily intended to arouse teenagers through the portrayal of sexual situations so we can have some data points.

I mean, you could make an argument for Twilight. But there's two issues there: firstly, Twilight is terrified of sex, to the extent that it is symbolised in the stories by sacrifice, bleeding, and undeath, which is pretty fatal for erotica (which requires a certain amount of sexual hoopla to really qualify as erotica in the first plaxce), but works far better for romance (the pursuit of innocence, the deflowering a culmination of the relationship developed throughout the story, etc.), which is a pretty big indication that Twilight falls on the "romance" side of the border. And also, Twilight creeps me the hell out, so it's not likely to change my mind on the erotica-for-teens concept. ;)

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 02:16 on 2009-12-22I don't actually read much erotica, so i can't think of any targeted to teenagers. I have to admit, I just always assumed it must exist.

The closest I come is fantasy writers like Melanie Rawn and Mercedes Lackey. None of her books are *strictly* about sex, but in several of the YA books (cough*ArrowsFlight*cough) the sex gets a huge chunk of the page count and is substantially more interesting than the main plot.

But if you'll gant the following premises:

1: It's okay for teens to read erotica

2: any two demographic groups will have different tastes as a matter of statistics

and

3: good writers are generally adults

it seems to follow that among the erotic stories it is possible to write, some will appeal more to teens, other to adults, and that the best of those stories will probably be written by adults, not children.

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Robinson L

at 03:00 on 2009-12-22

Thanks for the link to your sister's lj entry! I got a kick out of that!

Glad to hear it! Thought you might!

If you really liked it, I'm sure she'd appreciate comments. (Which you should be able to do anonymously if you don't already have an account.)

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Melissa G.

at 03:18 on 2009-12-22

If you really liked it, I'm sure she'd appreciate comments.

I was going to, but when I realized how long ago the entry was from, I thought it'd be weird so I didn't. ^_^;

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http://ninjacatman.livejournal.com/

at 03:43 on 2009-12-22

The closest I come is fantasy writers like Melanie Rawn and Mercedes Lackey. None of her books are *strictly* about sex, but in several of the YA books (cough*ArrowsFlight*cough) the sex gets a huge chunk of the page count and is substantially more interesting than the main plot.

But see that means it's not erotica, even if there is a lot of sex it's not just about the sex (whether the main plot is more interesting or not). Even trashy Harlequinn romances aren't erotica, they're trashy romances which have a lot of sex in them but are technically about the relationship with sex as a bonus. Erotica is the other way around.

One of the problems I think Melissa and Arthur and even me are having is when we think of erotica we think of the erotica we have come across which is written by adults with a distinctly adult view of sex. I can't think of erotica that has been written for teens with a distinctly teenage mindset. But that I'm thinking about, it doesn't like a bad idea, to write books about having sex from an actual teenage point of view.

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http://ninjacatman.livejournal.com/

at 03:44 on 2009-12-22***But now that I'm thinking about, it doesn't seem like a bad idea, to write books about having sex from an actual teenage point of view.***

because sometimes I skip important words when i type.

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Robinson L

at 15:30 on 2009-12-22

If you really liked it, I'm sure she'd appreciate comments. I was going to, but when I realized how long ago the entry was from, I thought it'd be weird so I didn't. ^_^;

Yeah, I know the feeling. Still, even if it is extremely belated, I think she'd appreciate feedback from someone who isn't a member of her family. Besides, she's probably either reading this already or will be soon enough, so it's not as if it would be out-of-the-blue.

Still up to you, of course. *shrugs*

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http://mary-j-59.livejournal.com/

at 16:04 on 2009-12-22I don't really have a lot to say here. I did read the series, and pretty much enjoyed the first three books, though they are certainly not great literature and I ended up raising my eyebrows in certain places. But I enjoyed this even more:

http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html

Seriously, Sparkledammerung will tell you all you ever need to know about what "Twilight" is *really* about - and it's a hoot, besides.

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Melissa G.

at 16:32 on 2009-12-22@Mary J

Thanks for the link! I knew there was a Mormon influence in the book but I don't know enough about the religion to feel able to discuss it myself. So this was really interesting for me to read! I liked her picture inclusions too. ^^

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Arthur B

at 16:47 on 2009-12-22A note: this year we've had:

- This article.

- My review of

Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines

.

- Dan's article about

the philosophy of identity

, which included notes on the metaphysical underpinnings of vampirism in the

Buffy

setting.

- My review of

Let the Right One In

.

- And Kyra's first article of the year was another

Twilight article

.

Have we just accidentally had our very own Year of the Vampire? Is it time for a vampire theme? (Or perhaps an expansion of the zombies theme to include undeath in general?) Should we put a moratorium on further Twilight articles so that it never, ever, ever qualifies for a theme?

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Sister Magpie

at 18:52 on 2009-12-22What, no True Blood?

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Arthur B

at 19:01 on 2009-12-22The search feature's showing some mention in the PlayPen, but no articles. I don't remember wrong, but I might just be being forgetful...

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Shim

at 19:42 on 2009-12-22Wow, I'm late... I have also not read this book. Oh well... I feel like for this discussion, the "boys' trash" (basically) mentioned is a bit different from

Twilight

, whatever you think about quality or empowerment. It's about the type of characters these people are supposed to be.

James Bond, Rambo, Conan... they are basically military types with very unusual lives, and the books/films are about the way they defeat obstacles and kick ass. Boys certainly tend to think what they do is cool, but they're so far removed from typical lives that there's not much direct parallel in terms of how to behave. Of course, they all glamorise violence and relentless enmity as ways to deal with problems. One might argue that the contexts are all military ones and a bit different to everyday problems, which might reduce the effect, but I think it's there. I'd say the typical influence is to make boys want to be strong, hardy, resolute, and maybe suave. On the whole, I think there won't be many situations where boys could think "oh, this is just like what happened to Conan" and approach or interpret situations in a similar way.

Twilight

is all about vampires and magic, but the heroine is supposedly fairly ordinary, and designed for girls to empathise with. She does normal stuff. Relationships with people are the core of the book, from what I gather (like, it being a romance). That being the case, stripped-down versions of some situations in the book could happen to real girls - getting followed around, having their boundaries pushed by boys, having the pace of relationships controlled by boys, and... whatever else happens in the book I haven't read. So it's

perhaps

more likely that the portrayal of Bella and the relationship, which is supposedly ideal, will influence girls' approach to similar situations in their own lives.

To some extent I might also say that James Bond, Rambo et al. aren't really held up as role models. Few people (some, but few) would say James Bond is a model for relationships with others - he doesn't seem to have friends, is egotistical, throws himself into danger unnecessarily, is incredibly cynical... And while his string of girls might appeal at first, boys don't only want sex. But also, these heroes only show the characteristics they do because of their extraordinary lives. If Conan settled down as a shepherd somewhere and found a girlfriend, I've no idea what he'd be like, because you don't usually find out much about their real selves, only the traits relevant to adventures. Bond would probably be that self-important git in the office who seems to have a new girlfriend every week and a whole string of enemies at work and outside.

Sorry, that rambles a bit but I hope it makes sense.

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Robinson L

at 20:02 on 2009-12-22

What, no True Blood?

Not yet. Once I've read

Dead to the World

I intend to begin work on a review of the book series (which, at my speed, should be ready sometime in March), but I've yet to see even one episode of the tv show, and I haven't seen anybody else tackle it here yet.

I agree with Arthur's suggestion of including a theme handle which includes "Vampires." I'd personally favor a new handle, given the large backlog of articles in our archives, it seems to me more differentiation among them would be all to the good.

Oh, and Melissa, congratulations on getting into the top five most-discussed articles.

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Melissa G.

at 20:20 on 2009-12-22

What, no True Blood?

I've seen the show, and while I didn't *love* it, I didn't hate it either. I'm basically too indifferent to invest my time in an article personally. :-) But I'm looking forward to reading a review of the book series if it appears here on FB. I'm curious how it will compare to the show.

Oh, and Melissa, congratulations on getting into the top five most-discussed articles.

Thanks! I'm very excited about that! ^_^

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Sister Magpie

at 20:30 on 2009-12-22Heh--I'm not really missing the True Blood articles. It just seemed like it went with the theme. I've never read the books, but like the TV series. I started out thinking it was just too silly for words, but was somehow looking forward to it every week so I have to admit I'm a fan.

On the subject of vampires that aren't vampires, I really wanted to agree with this article, actually. Of course anybody can take out certain details and still have the character be a vampire (even something so big as "can go out in the sun") but the problem with so many modern vampire stories is they so often want to have the cool parts without any of the sacrifice that's supposed to make it horrible. This goes double if the person isn't even particularly doing anything wrong.

I always remember someone--I think it was Cassie Claire, actually, criticizing Moonlight for that reason and saying that if you wanted a vampire story you'd be better off watching Dexter, since he's pretty much a vampire despite not actually being a vampire. Just because he's a monster who preys on humans while looking like one of them, and he has a hunger for blood he can't deny.

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Arthur B

at 20:48 on 2009-12-22I think also there's an certain extent to which, if you want to tap into the old vampire myths, you have to include at least a tiny amount of the trappings which go with them, if only on an allegorical level (as with Dexter), otherwise you're trying to freeride on the reputation of vampires without really developing a proper connection to the myth.

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Shim

at 21:13 on 2009-12-22Well, vampires nowadays tend to ignore the inconvenient mythological basis of being, y'know,

actually, genuinely dead

. And depending on your myth of choice, repulsive. And not necessarily having human motivations any more. Obviously it all depends a bit where you decide your vampires are "rooted" - the folk versions (from my reading a long time ago) seemed a lot more monstrous undead horror, without the personality of Dracula or whoever.

I note that they don't seem to turn ordinary people into corrupted semi-human serfs any more, either. Now that might be an interesting twist for Twilight's take on relationships...

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Melissa G.

at 21:49 on 2009-12-22

I have to admit I'm a fan

I also find True Blood very addictive. ^^ Even though Bill is a bit of a "pussy-vampire", we also get Eric who is an old-school sadistic freak vampire, which makes me really happy. I loved when he got blood in his hair and had to cut it!

And depending on your myth of choice, repulsive.

I think Anne Rice had a lot to do with making vampires hot. :-)

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Andy G

at 22:04 on 2009-12-22On the year of the Vampire front, did anyone see Thirst? I thought that was great. And definitely didn't cut back on the nastier side of the vampire myth.

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Sister Magpie

at 01:17 on 2009-12-23Thirst, the Australian film from years ago?

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Andy G

at 02:08 on 2009-12-23No, the Korean film from this year by Chan-woon Park.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0762073/

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Sister Magpie

at 02:40 on 2009-12-23I haven't seen it. I must remember to check it out--if it's good. Is it good?

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Melissa G.

at 02:49 on 2009-12-23

I must remember to check it out--if it's good.

Ditto! It sounds really intriguing. And I've heard good things about Korean horror in general (assuming it falls into that category).

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Andy G

at 10:32 on 2009-12-23Personally I loved it. There are some awesome trailers for it around too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODoagpV68gA

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http://orionsnebula.blogspot.com/

at 18:04 on 2009-12-23Again, I'd blame Bram Stoker for this stuff before I'd blame Anne Rice.

We don't know the story with titular lead, but Dracula-vampires explicitly don't have to be "already dead". At least, Mina Harker gets to turn halfway and get vampire powers while she's still alive.

Furthermore, Dracula can and does go out during the day, not once but twice. First Jonathan runs into him in the streets of London, then when they attack him in his coffin during the day, he escapes and runs out into the streets. While in the sun, he can't use any of his magic powers, but suffers no harm.

Honestly, Bram Stoker decided that vampires were going to be about sex--which worked as horror in Victorian England. But as our culture gets a little more honest and open about sexuality, sex-vampires become less scary and more tittilating.

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Melissa G.

at 19:38 on 2009-12-23

Again, I'd blame Bram Stoker for this stuff before I'd blame Anne Rice.

I certainly wouldn't. Bram Stoker's Dracula (and I'm speaking specifically to the book not any of the movies based on it) is not supposed to be sexy. His physical description (what little there is of it) is not overly flattering. We're not meant to think that Mina is drawn to him because she is physically attracted to him; she isn't. She's drawn to his animal sexual magnetism, or through his powers of mind control.

In Dracula, the sun isn't fatal to the Count, but it does render him powerless. This forces him to adjust his daily life to sleeping during the day (in his coffin filled with dirt) and going out at night when he is powerful. The important thing is that "the sun is a curse to vampires". While it doesn't necessarily have to kill them (Supernatural is a good example of when it worked for me that the sun wasn't fatal), it should be detrimental to them in some way. Causing them to sparkle really isn't a detriment in any way, shape, or form. And that's the problem with the Twilight vampires.

And Mina certainly doesn't gain vampire powers in the book, nor does Lucy. They just waste away in illness as they lose more and more blood. Dracula does give Mina his blood to turn her, but she won't become a vampire until her death when she rises up out of her coffin as Lucy tried to do. Towards the end, she starts to have a sort of psychic connection to Dracula himself, but I wouldn't call that "vampire powers". Dracula has linked himself to her through his blood and she is using that link against him.

The thing to remember about the difference between Anne Rice's work and Bram Stoker's is that Stoker's was condemning sex. Don't give in to your dark sexual urges, it will make you a monster. It's true that nowadays, this message seems more titillating in nature than scary, but that's hardly Stoker's fault.

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Jamie Johnston

at 16:15 on 2009-12-29Hello folks! Been away. Interesting article & discussion. I confess I've slightly skimmed the discussion so forgive me if I say things that have already been mentioned.

The part of the discussion about sex made me think of one of the things that I've found difficult to untangle in my head about the

Twilight

books. At first I thought Meyer's approach to the 'vampirism as metaphor for sex' thing was interesting and quite clever. As Orion has pointed out a couple of comments above this one, having that metaphor made sense in Stoker's time [disclaimer: haven't actually read

Dracula

, except an abridged & simplified children's version when I was under 10] as a way of (first of all) representing sex in fiction at all and (secondly) representing sex as something both attractive and dangerous. Now that sex isn't, by and large, seen as dangerous, the modern vampire story has to find a social setting in which it still makes sense to address sex as something that's dangerous as well as appealing. One option is to use it to address rape-fantasies through 'vampirism as metaphor for non-consensual-or-is-it? sex', but another is Meyer's social setting of teenage sex, which has elements of dangerousness in that it may attract parental and social disapproval, it may be new and unknown, and it may bring the real (because of ignorance or nonchalance on the teenagers' part about safe sex) or imagined (because of ignorance about the biology of conception and transmission of disease) threat of pregnancy and / or STDs. For a lot of young teenagers, especially ones from small and conservative communities and especially for girls, sex must in some ways be quite a scary prospect. I'm sure Meyer isn't by any means the first artist to see and exploit the potential for vampire stories as metaphors for all this, but

Twilight

was the first place I'd encountered it.

What I find hard to get my head around, though, is that she also, especially after the first book, brings sex very much into the story on a non-metaphorical level. Sometimes the metaphor and the literal story are saying the same thing about sex and sometimes they say different things, so it becomes a little confusing. For example, Edward refuses to 'have sex with' (i.e. bite) Bella because it would be selfish and would deprive her of her carefree innocence and would imperil her soul; yet he refuses to (literally) have sex with her for simply because it would be physically dangerous and probably kill her. Both lines of reasoning are disempowering for Bella and both are based on the Nice Guy premise that Bella probably wouldn't really enjoy it; but the metaphorical reasons are moral ones and the literal ones are entirely practical. Is Meyer telling us that teenagers shouldn't have sex because it's metaphorically but not actually wrong and also because it's literally but not metaphorically dangerous?

And then it's further confused by an extra layer of metaphor, because having literal sex with a vampire is, like literal (and irresponsible and ill-informed) teenage human sex, dangerous, but for different reasons: vampire sex is dangerous because in the excitement the vampire is likely to lose self-control and bite you (or, as it becomes in the later books, because the vampire is so super-strong that even if he doesn't bite you the mere exertion of force that's involved in the sex itself is likely to kill you). Which appears in at least some parts of the series to operate as a metaphor for the actual dangers of teenage sex to the extent that sex with Edward is something Bella both desires and fears (thus her mental disposition parallels what many of Meyer's female readers probably feel or felt when contemplating havign sex for the first time), except that the metaphor in this case is an extremely bad and misleading one because, first of all, fear of sex with a vampire is extremely rational and appropriate because having sex with a vampire genuinely is almost certain to kill you whereas fear of sex with a teenage boy is largely irrational and socially constructed because having sex with a teenage boy is almost certain not to kill you and very likely to cause you no ill effects at all; and secondly, the danger from sex with a vampire stems from the vampire's inherent dangerousness and lack of self-control, whereas the danger from sex with a teenage boy, in as much as there is any danger at all, stems from irresponsibility and ignorance on the part of both participants. So on this level vampire sex seems to function as a metaphor for teenage human sex that tells us, quite unhelpfully, that teenage human sex is extremely dangerous because boys are violent and have little self-control. Indeed sex with a vampire here seems to be really a metaphor for sex with a date-rapist, but because it looks like a metaphor for sex in general the reader comes away with an unconscious impression that all men are rapists. Which is, to put it very mildly, not an appropriate assertion to make by sleight-of-hand in a book like this.

And not only do the metaphorical and the literal messages get into conflicts and tangles with one another, but the metaphorical and literal events themselves get caught up together in the plot. In

Breaking dawn

(

spoilers

, as if anyone cares!) Edward does eventually have sex (literally) with Bella, she having tricked / persuaded him to do this while she's still human. The metaphorical danger of the literal sex doesn't materialize: he restrains himself sufficiently that he causes no injury beyond extensive bruising. But then we find that the literal danger of literal sex does result: Bella gets pregnant. Consequently, although the literal sex didn't result in the expected metaphorical event (death), this result is ultimately caused by the literal result of the literal sex (pregnancy), because Bella dies delivering the baby, thus in turn bringing about the metaphorical sex (vampirism) because in order to save her Edward has to make her a vampire, except that this has now stopped being a metaphor for sex and has become something like a metaphor for the immortal soul (since Bella, like a good Mormon, refuses life-saving abortion and therefore dies to be reborn as a happy immortal being).

It's all rather baffling, really.

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Jamie Johnston

at 16:34 on 2009-12-29Oh, also, quick thing about empowerment. I think this is a little more complex than some commenters have thought, in as much as Bella is actually quite a powerful agent of action in the plot a lot of the time but at the same time she's very disempowered in other ways. In

Twilight

itself (

spoliers

of course) she has a lot of will but very little capacity and does indeed have to be rescued again and again. It's perhaps slightly good that the climax results from her choice to escape the protection of the Cullens in order to rescue her mother from the evil vampire, but this is undermined by the fact that it's a stupid idea and she ends up having to be rescued from the evil vampire herself.

But in the later books things improve a bit. In

New moon

a certain amount of rescuing is still required, but she does end up taking a real role in the final bit of the plot, namely 'rescuing' Edward from killing himself because he thinks she's dead. In

Eclipse

she exercises a fairly significant bit of agency in choosing between her two suitors. And of course in

Breaking dawn

she gets ridiculous super-powers and can kick everyone's collective arse. In a sense her ridiculous super-powers are quite traditionally feminine in that they're protective rather than offensive, but there's no implication that they're anything other than utterly crucial to victory.

Still, the series is really a lurve story more than a fantasy adventure, so the most important place for Bella to show agency and empowerment is in her relationship with Edward, and there isn't much of it there. She's pushy about sex and eventually gets what she wants, but one can't really say that she's in control or that she directs events in the relationship.

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http://atropaxbeladona.livejournal.com/

at 22:48 on 2011-02-10I can't comment on the original post, but I read your dumb post about Steve Vander Ark and laughed so hard your cluelessness, I thought you should know. Also, some facts about the case can be found

here

and

here

.

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http://atropaxbeladona.livejournal.com/

at 22:48 on 2011-02-10Oops, it should be AT your cluelesness but my browser eated it. :(

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Dan H

at 23:20 on 2011-02-10Hiya, sorry you can't post on the original article, really not sure what the issue is if you can post on this one (openID sometimes plays funny).

I'm more than willing to believe that the HP Lexicon did in fact contain unattributed material from the Potter books (and looking at the article which I believe I wrote in 2008 I did in fact open with the line "If the guy has genuinely reproduced text from the Potter books without attribution, then he's breaking the law and he needs to correct that") it's just that Rowling seemed to be trying to argue that (a) reference guides were inherently worthless and that (b) a guide to her books could be improved by including information that is not in the books.

I don't really give a crap about the legality of it (that's for courts to decide, although personally I come down on the side of "if it's not her words it's not her copyright" although I suspect that is an oversimplification) what bothered me was what it implied about Rowling's attitude to her texts.

But dude, it was three years ago, I'm personally kind of over it.

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Dan H

at 09:39 on 2011-02-11Further:

Having read the posts you linked in some detail, I'm pretty sure the court's analysis and understanding of copyright law was basically in line with my own as expressed in the original article.

My problem with the lawsuit wasn't that I thought that Rowling was necessarily wrong, just that I thought she was acting for the wrong reasons. Her objection to the lexicon was that it just put information from the books in alphabetical order and that's ... well ... perfectly reasonable as far as I can see.

The key to the case was (as I pointed out several times in the comments on the original article) that copyright protects not ideas but expressions, and the Lexicon used too much of Rowling's original expression (particularly from the two companion books). It had nothing to do with those complaints which I dismissed as ludicrous - that there wasn't enough new information in the book, and that all he'd done was rearrange preexisting information.

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Arthur B

at 11:00 on 2011-02-11It's often the case in law - especially poorly understood fields like IP law - that the reasons your client has to want to take action against someone have nothing to do with the actual legal arguments as to why what that person did was wrong. I imagine her lawyers spent a lot of time encouraging her to stick to the actual harm that was done - the wholesale borrowing of her text - rather than wittering on about irrelevant nonsense that undermined her case, and failing that tried to suppress the urge to roll their eyes at her testimony and did all they could to get her off the stand sharpish before she did more damage.

A lot of the skill in being an attorney, especially in emotive cases like these, is taking a client's irrational concerns, working out whether there's any legal merit to them, and failing that working out whether the opponent has screwed up in some other respect which would allow your client to get satisfaction that way. It's difficult because often the sensible and prudent thing to do is not the thing which would make the client feel happy and vindicated.

On the other side, I would

hope

Vander Ark's lawyers expended at least some effort to say "Look, we might be able to put together a case here, but let's face it - it'll be tenuous. It might be cheaper and easier in the long run to cut your losses and do a rewrite to reduce the amount of stuff you're copy-pasting directly from the books so we can settle this out of court." If a client is intent on making a stand and won't listen to advice to the contrary that's one thing, but it's not cool to let clients walk into the lion's den expecting kittens.

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Gamer_2k4 at 19:36 on 2011-05-18

Meyer wrote a prologue about an imminent death in first person past tense. Say that with me again. IMMINENT death. FIRST person. PAST tense.

So? I'm sure nearly all first-person works are written in past tense; I know for sure that most novels in general are past tense. Present tense just sounds strange in a book, regardless of the application. After all, the fact that you have a book in its entirety means it was (supposedly) compiled together from past events, rather than being something that's being written as you read it.

Now, I'm not trying to say that Meyer has any merit as a writer. That would be silly. However, past tense isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

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Wardog

at 20:13 on 2011-05-18Meyer's prologue, and pedestrian prose style, don't bother me as much as they bother Melissa but nevertheless I do agree that trying to induce a sense of narrative tension by having the narrator fearing her imminent death in the past tense only draws attention to the artificiality of the form because it smacks you in the face with the reality that this is being narrated from *somewhere*. I don't think it's the first person past tense that's the issue: it's the death thang. Also quite a lot of YA novels, The Hunger Games and The Knife of Never Letting Go, are told in present tense first person narration for precisely this reason.

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Melissa G.

at 22:59 on 2011-05-18

nevertheless I do agree that trying to induce a sense of narrative tension by having the narrator fearing her imminent death in the past tense only draws attention to the artificiality of the form because it smacks you in the face with the reality that this is being narrated from *somewhere*.

This basically says it. I wasn't objecting to the past tense. I think past tense should be the default if you don't have a good reason to switch it up. The problem with what Meyer did was that you have a character telling you how they are about to die despite the fact that since the narration is in past tense, we already KNOW the narrator doesn't die thus killing any sense of tension or fear.

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Andy G

at 23:27 on 2011-05-18I remember writing about present tense narration in my first year at uni. There was a sentence in All Quiet on the Western Front that piqued my interest:

We trudge through mud for five days. (paraphrase)

The question is: at what point is he narrating from? If it's the middle of the period, how does he know they will marching for five days. If it's after the period, why doesn't he use past tense?

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying present-tense narration is problematic or illogical or anything. I just think it's an interesting contrast to the past-tense first-person-about-to-die narration.

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http://ruderetum.blogspot.com/

at 08:42 on 2011-05-19It seems that if one wants tension in a past tense, using first persion might not be the way to go. Rather it is more effective if it is some version of the apersonal narrative voice.

Though that might not be as immersive. This isn't true in my personal experience, I often get annoyed with first person present tense even if it works on occasion.

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Wardog

at 10:33 on 2011-05-19Yes, I think you're right. I think the thing is you can't have it both ways. There's nothing inherently "wrong" about first person past tense narration telling you the protagonist presently fears for her death but you can't also expect the reader to get all wound up about it.

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Andy G

at 12:25 on 2011-05-19I've just remembered something that the Kick-Ass voiceover narrator says:

"And if you're reassuring yourself that I'm going to make it through this since I'm talking to you now, quit being such a smart-ass! Hell dude, you never seen "Sin City"? "Sunset Boulevard"? "American Beauty"?

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Dan H

at 23:02 on 2011-05-19I have heard that /Sunset Boulevard/ originally opened with the narrator actually checking himself into a morgue.

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Shim

at 23:22 on 2011-05-19

"We trudge through mud for five days." (paraphrase) The question is: at what point is he narrating from? If it's the middle of the period, how does he know they will marching for five days. If it's after the period, why doesn't he use past tense?

Well, I'd say not from any point, but the whole period. Or if you insist on a fixed point, continuously at points during the five days that are handily merged for the reader's convenience. But I prefer the first.

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Wardog

at 23:31 on 2011-05-19Also, and sorry to keep going on about this because I do absolutely see your point Andy, none of those texts are trying to make you feel anxious about whether or not the protagonist dies.

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Dan H

at 23:38 on 2011-05-19To be fair to Stephanie Meyer, you can make the case that the flash-forward in Twilight *also* isn't trying to make you feel anxious about whether or not the protagonist dies, rather it's trying to make you feel curious about how this seemingly normal girl will find herself at risk of death (spoiler: the guy she likes turns out to be a vampire).

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Wardog

at 23:44 on 2011-05-19Point taken. I am pwned.

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Melissa G.

at 00:35 on 2011-05-20

To be fair to Stephanie Meyer, you can make the case that the flash-forward in Twilight *also* isn't trying to make you feel anxious about whether or not the protagonist dies, rather it's trying to make you feel curious about how this seemingly normal girl will find herself at risk of death (spoiler: the guy she likes turns out to be a vampire).

The point remains that it didn't make me feel *anything* because the prose was flat, explanatory, bland, and horribly horribly boring. It inspired no feeling whatsoever. The first person narrator was facing her death and she was waxing boring about trivial details. The story could have just started with the first chapter, and the audience wouldn't have lost anything. It wasn't just the first person past tense fail of making the audience nervous or anxious. The passage was just poor and served no purpose and should have been cut completely. At least in Kick-Ass even though I wasn't thinking the kid would die, I was still nervous and freaked out for him because that movie inspired thoughts and feelings and connection to the main character and who he was and how he felt. Twilight does NONE of this with it's awkwardly phrased, thesaurus syndrome purple prose.

*pants* Wow, ranty. Sorry....

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http://ruderetum.blogspot.com/

at 11:36 on 2011-05-20It comes to mind that in first person past tense, the result of the situation might not be death, but it could be something traumatic or bad altogether. Examples: Robin Hobb's Farseer trilogy, Mika Waltari's The Egyptian.

This is not a defense of Waltari, I was just thinking how it could work as generating tension. Arguably this would apply to All Quiet on the Western Front, as even if we might not worry for the narrator, everyone knows its going to get bad. I don't recall whether the whole novel was in first person past tense though, rather than just the quote Andy G posted.

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http://ruderetum.blogspot.com/

at 11:49 on 2011-05-20I mean defense of Meyer. Drat.

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Melissa G.

at 17:34 on 2011-05-20

This is not a defense of Waltari, I was just thinking how it could work as generating tension.

I think it could work. If the narrative managed to invoke anxiety or fear or nerves for the character, that would be a successful passage despite the fact that the audience knows she won't die. Also, it's hard for the prologue to inspire anything in the reader because we don't know Bella yet, and we have yet to care about her. So it'd be more difficult to pull off in the first book then it would in the second or third where the character and our feelings toward them is already established. In any case, it would take a better writer than Meyer to pull it off.

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Andy G

at 11:31 on 2011-05-23"I don't recall whether the whole novel was in first person past tense though, rather than just the quote Andy G posted."

Just FYI, it was :)

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Andy G

at 11:31 on 2011-05-23Apart from the very, very end.

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Robinson L

at 22:30 on 2011-06-06More necroing. I'm not sure if this is bringing a new perspective on the above discussion of tension in first person narration, or reiterating a point someone else has already made; in first person, past-tense narration, I think when the protagonist is in danger, the tension comes more from how they'll get out of it, rather than whether they will (similarly in a great deal of third person narratives).

Brandon Sanderson hung a pretty funny lampshade on this point in the second book of his

Alcatraz

series, where the first person narrator encourages the reader to ignore the mortal danger he was in at the end of the previous chapter for a moment because he's narrating in the past tense, so he obviously survived somehow.

But anyway, this is all just a thinly disguised excuse to provide an update on my

earlier promise

to deliver an article on the subject of Charlaine Harris' Sookie Stackhouse/Southern Vampire series. I had one mostly worked out, then I read

Pyrofennec's review of All Together Dead

and I had to rethink my whole take on the series. So no articles any time soon.

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Wardog

at 16:46 on 2011-06-07Ye Gods, that's a lot of fail. I read about halfway through the first one, tbh, but the banal prose style sent me to sleep. I will confess to a secret filthy love of the TV series - even though it's, y'know, not without problems. Tara being one of them. I quite *like* Tara but I've never seen so many shitty things happen to one person in my entire life.

The line I particularly liked in there, and by 'liked' I mean made me cringe in an amusing fashion, was "racial blend." That, to me, sounds like a protein shake.

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Robinson L

at 00:00 on 2011-06-09I actually quite like the book series, for various reasons, but I obviously need to start thinking about it more critically.

I also enjoy

True Blood

, though as you say, it's got issues too. Despite the problems surrounding her character, Tara's actually my favorite in the tv show for the sheer awesomeness of her intro in episode one.

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TheMerryMustelid

at 15:41 on 2012-04-21It's probably been said before, but the only rational explanation that I can think of for the Twilight series being the success it was (even before the movies came out) was that desparate, coming-of-age Harry Potter fans needed something to replace their fantasy fix, and sadly Twilight was the wrong young adult series to come out at the right time.

Now that they're full grown adults, hopefully they're reading Game of Thrones to remind them what good fantasy writing is.

I enjoyed the Harry Potter series myself *ducks* but happily went on to Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials series which saved me from Twihard Disease.

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http://fishinginthemud.livejournal.com/

at 16:54 on 2012-04-21I can just about understand the appeal of

Twilight

to a teenager. Bella's life sucks exactly the way your life sucks. You have to do the dishes while your brothers sit on the couch watching tv and laughing at you for being a girl. You get in trouble for swearing when they don't. You're not allowed to play and have fun and have dreams and ambitions while they are. Boys at school are creepy douchebags to you, and your boyfriend is a total controlling asshole.

It might be nice to have that turned into something that's kind of not so bad, and affirms that you actually are okay, even kind of awesome, and boys treat you like crap because they can't handle your awesomeness, and anyway you wouldn't want them to be nice to you, because then they'd be spineless pussies. (How I hate that word.) Your dad makes you do the housework not because you're a girl and that's all you're good for, but because he loves you and cares about you and you have your role in life just as he has his. Your boyfriend wants to control you and protect you and make decisions for you because that's his role, just as it's your role to make him happy in exactly the way he chooses. Really, it's not so bad, and you don't have to feel so bad about it.

I think my heart just cracked a little.

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TheMerryMustelid

at 17:05 on 2012-04-22

I can just about understand the appeal of Twilight to a teenager...Boys at school are creepy douchebags to you, and your boyfriend is a total controlling asshole.

I see your point FITM, which is why I'm ever-so-glad I spent my formative years in an all-girls catholic highschool. As much as we usually make fun of such establishments, I for one felt much more prepared for the added social pressures of dating & such when I entered college. Highschool was hard enough just keeping on top of grades without worrying about what to wear every damn day.

[allenmendezsr]

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Michael Jersi Owner, Jersi Salon, Beverly Hills

I wanted to Break Free of the Trap that chemical hair dyes had on my life. Not only because of their toxicity, but also because…

In 2004, Scientific Studies Showed Hair Dyes cause BLOOD CANCER

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I just got done reading the book you wrote. It was very well written, very informative, and everything you said was direct, to the point, not complicated to understand, and very professional. It was short and sweet. I put the program to work immediately upon receiving it and have noticed much darker, fuller, healthier hair in just a matter of 3 months. I have since recommended it to family not clients since that would be taking away my business!! Tommy Mizrahi Owner – Rust Hair Salon Los Angeles, CA

Back to top

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Thanks!

Dennis Clifton, NJ

Success Story

I wanted to let you know that I was looking for something like this and wish I could tell everyone about it. I think I do look younger now. I have started paying closer attention to my stress levels per your suggestions in your stress manual and I think that’s helping out a lot. I also really like the fashion tips for men. Kudos on a great product!

Scott Scottsdale, AZ

Success Story

Hi!

At only 27 years old I started going gray Quickly. I really didn’t want to start coloring my hair. I turned to the web for answers and voila! the first site I landed on was ReversingtheGray.com – I was a bit skeptical at first, but you offer a money back guarantee that I couldn’t pass up. It was the best investment of my life. I’ve paid for this manual 1000 times over with the amount I save not coloring my hair at a salon.

Thanks!

Stacey R Chicago, IL

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[allenmendezsr]

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

New Post has been published on https://autotraffixpro.app/allenmendezsr/natural-remedy-to-reverse-gray-hair-massive-conversion-rate/

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

 Buy Now

    Joseph Maynard Founder ReversingTheGray.com Joseph@ReversingTheGray.com

My Dear Friend,

Be honest with yourself. . .

Like me, you are probably Afraid you are developing gray hair too early in life

…It’s making you LOOK MUCH OLDER, and more importantly, FEEL MUCH OLDER…

And worse yet, it is affecting your CONFIDENCE, your LOVE LIFE, and maybe even Your ABILITY TO GET A JOB.

In today’s competitive world, Gray Hair is a DISADVANTAGE you don’t need.

I struggled with all of the above for over five years!…..I couldn’t find a job, was a loser in the dating scene, and worst of all, I felt like I was too old to compete with people younger than me.

I was tired of using hair dyes…not only because they were TOXIC but also, after it wore off my hair looked even MORE gray than before….

“I Was a Non-Believer At First”

Joseph,

I embarked on my search for a good program to reducing and reversing gray hair to recommend to my clients…I’m so glad I found your E-Book! I had been looking for months for something like this. I was a non-believer at first, but I really liked the fact that it’s so easy to do. I tried it myself and am happy to say I noticed stunning results after just a few months. My gray hair started diminishing and my hair looks GREAT!Thanks for all the help.

Michael Jersi Owner, Jersi Salon, Beverly Hills

I wanted to Break Free of the Trap that chemical hair dyes had on my life. Not only because of their toxicity, but also because…

In 2004, Scientific Studies Showed Hair Dyes cause BLOOD CANCER

You can read more about the study here – a Web MD summary article.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! I may be a foolish guinea pig, but I would never use anything KNOWING it’s going to cause cancer.

I wanted a NATURAL and SAFE alternative

I Was About to Settle For My Aging Appearance

Believe it or not, 2 years ago, I was about to just accept my aging appearance as the inevitable work of time! I looked everywhere but couldn’t find the information, let alone the solution I needed.

First, I scoured local health food stores and the internet for products that looked good…and literally tried them ALL…like a human guinea pig.

I found that none of them worked effectively over the long term. It was very frustrating!

“Darker, Fuller, Healthier Hair…in 3 months”

I just got done reading the book you wrote. It was very well written, very informative, and everything you said was direct, to the point, not complicated to understand, and very professional. It was short and sweet. I put the program to work immediately upon receiving it and have noticed much darker, fuller, healthier hair in just a matter of 3 months. I have since recommended it to family not clients since that would be taking away my business!! Tommy Mizrahi Owner – Rust Hair Salon Los Angeles, CA

Back to top

…Fast Forward One Year…

I did not give up! You might say I did “extreme” research.

Through a connection with a former boss, I actually got to interview a retired PhD chemist who had worked for a large French beauty products company.

My source had done a lot of research, on his own, about natural treatments for reversing gray hair.

What he told me was shocking!

It turns out that he not only knew about natural treatments to reverse gray hair, but also,…

“…Never shared it with his bosses because he knew they wouldn’t like it – it was not a money maker”

Well, as you can imagine, I was eager to get his formula, which I was eventually able to pry out of him.

I was not sure I believed it until…I tried it for myself and discovered it really does work.

My Friends – IT’S TRUE . . .

But you don’t have to take my word for it…read the numerous testimonials of people who have shared their success stories with me!

Success Story

Dear Joe,

I just wanted to let you know that after 3 months on your program, I couldn’t be more happy with the results. My wife seeing how happy I am is elated herself. Believe it or not, our marriage has become stronger in part because of you! Needless to say, I am very happy with the results.

Thanks!

Dennis Clifton, NJ

Success Story

I wanted to let you know that I was looking for something like this and wish I could tell everyone about it. I think I do look younger now. I have started paying closer attention to my stress levels per your suggestions in your stress manual and I think that’s helping out a lot. I also really like the fashion tips for men. Kudos on a great product!

Scott Scottsdale, AZ

Success Story

Hi!

At only 27 years old I started going gray Quickly. I really didn’t want to start coloring my hair. I turned to the web for answers and voila! the first site I landed on was ReversingtheGray.com – I was a bit skeptical at first, but you offer a money back guarantee that I couldn’t pass up. It was the best investment of my life. I’ve paid for this manual 1000 times over with the amount I save not coloring my hair at a salon.

Thanks!

Stacey R Chicago, IL

WARNING: Not All Natural Hair Remedies Are Created Equal!

Be careful, there are a lot of bogus products on the market.

There are none that I am aware of that work like this one, that have been researched by a guy from within the chemical industry… .

With Reversing the Gray, you obtain your goals with ease – in 90 days or less.

You CAN stop wondering what to do about your graying hair, once and for all…

“you never ever have to go back to being unhappy with your aging appearance or feeling less than anybody else ever again”

FIRST . . .

Let me give you a sample of what you will find inside this eBook…

You Are Seconds Away From Looking Younger & Feeling More Confident . . .

The bottom line – it works!

*FREE* BONUS BOOKS With Your Order!

If you purchase “Reversing the Gray” before , you’ll receive 4 bonus books (Retail Value: $99.80) – Yours Free with This time-limited offer!

Bonus Book #1 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The World’s Simplest Guide to Hairloss” A 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss. A collection of the latest thinking on hair loss and how to prevent it. It’s a must read for men and women who are serious about preventing hair loss.

Bonus Book #2 (a $29.95 retail value)

“Sit Back, Relax, and Say Goodbye to Stress” Find out how to recognize stress before it takes a serious toll on your life. Included are techniques to relieving stress and anxiety. Stress CAN have an impact on the color of your hair.

Bonus Book #3 (a $9.95 retail value)

“Style Tips for Men and Women” Just what the title says. A compendium of 15 fashion tips for men and 10 essential fashion tips for women. It’s a must read for the fashion “Dufus” (like me).

Bonus Book #4 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook” Incredibly useful complete guide to how coconut oil can benefit not only your hair, but also your skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart. Some of the best kept secrects on this “superfood” are in this eBook.

But wait, here’s the clincher….

60-Day 100% Moneyback Guarantee. We are so excited and so sure you will look and feel better after trying the remedies in “Reversing the Gray”that we will give you 100% of your money back if you are not satisfied for ANY reason, even 2 months after your purchase. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You’ll spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

If you want a formula that actually works, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Copy of Reversing the Gray™

Rated:

4 / 5 based on 14 customer reviews

Product description:

The Secret Remedy for Reversing Gray Hair Naturally

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

In stock

I understand I am purchasing state of the art e-books that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book immediately after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following FOUR BONUSES worth a total of $99.80 absolutely FREE…..

The World’s Simplest Guide to Hair Loss ($29.95 value)- 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress ($29.95 Value)- Insider tips on how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! The truth staying in good mental health.

Style Tips for Men and Women ($9.95 value)- 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook ($29.95 value)-Complete guide to how to use coconut oil to benefit your hair, skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart

I also understand my purchase today will be backed by a 100% risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: If after trying the techniques in Reversing the Gray, I am not looking more youthful and confident – I will receive a full refund of the purchase price

100% Secure No-Risk Order:

The proof is in customer results! Here are actual testimonials from folks just like you that are currently benefitting from the techniques found only in Reversing the Gray

Success Story

So glad I found your site. I’m beyond satisfied with the results I’ve noticed since trying out your program. Friends who I never thought would notice have made comments on how good and healthy my hair looks…

Michael S. Seattle, WA

Success Story

Thank you for writing such an easy to read book about how to combat graying hair. I am very happy with the results I have noticed in just over a month using your program. Finally, a program that actually works for a change…

Shelly Tobias Denver, CO

Back to top

Once you start noticing your new and improved look, your confidence will shoot through the roof!

Success Story

Joseph,

I finally finished reading the e-book. I am happy to say that I learned quite a few new things that I hope to put into practice to enhance my appearance, my health and my overall wellbeing . I look forward to continued results.

Tony Pensacola, FL

If you’re not completely satisfied with what you see when you look in the mirror – you NEED this information!

Success Story

Dear Joseph,

I have to say I am so glad I found this e-book. Reversing my gray hair took a bit longer than usual, but when I finally started seeing results, I was ecstatic. I also really like your manual on Stress reducing techniques. I use them on a regular basis! I look forward to meeting you in person to give you hug!

Sean N. New York, NY

Success Story

This book was extremely helpful. Reversing the Gray, is an honest, heartfelt guide that addresses many concerns that we gen x’ers have about our hair color. I can honestly say that this is the only book of its kind. I saw my few gray hairs fill in with my previous color at around the two month mark

Thanks!

Monique P Knoxville, TN

Success Story

This was the best money I ever spent on myself. I read all of the reviews, but until I tried it for myself, I was a non-believer. Well, I’m on the bandwagon now! My hair looks darker, fuller, and healthier. I’ve seen my gray hair be cut in half and look forward to more results.

Jake Birmingham, UK

Success Story

Dear Miracle Worker,

I just wanted you to know that since I started reading “Reversing the Gray” program, I really do feel more confident when I go out. Just knowing I’m taking the time to look my best really does make a difference. I surprised myself with the astounding results. Thanks.

Sean Dallas, TX

Back to top

But wait, there’s even more….

You have nothing to lose. We are so excited and so sure you will look better after trying the techniques in “Reversing the Gray” that we are offering a 100% money back guarantee. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

We’ve kept the price extremely low so that anyone can afford to find out this valuable information.

If you want results that last a lifetime, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Ebook Copy of Reversing the Gray™

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

I understand I am purchasing an e-book that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book less than 5 minutes after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following two bonuses worth a total of $39.90.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress – Find out how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! This cutting edge information is a MUST for anyone who wants to know the truth about staying in good mental health.

Fashion Tips for Men and Women – 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

I also understand my purchase today will be backed 100% by the following better than risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: “If after sincerely giving the techniques found within Reversing the Gray™ a try, and do not find your hair returning to its youthful appearance – I will give you a full refund of the purchase price – and you can take 60 days to decide.”

Order Your Copy Today:

Click on the button below to process your order online with our safe and secure merchant, Clickbank. There are three ordering options: 1) Pay with a Credit Card, 2) Checking Account, or 3) Paypal Account.

Thanks to my immediate download feature, you can find out ALL the valuable information on how to look your best and gain the expert advice in Reversing the Gray™ in just seconds from now!

Get Your Copy Now!

[allenmendezsr]

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

New Post has been published on https://autotraffixpro.app/allenmendezsr/natural-remedy-to-reverse-gray-hair-massive-conversion-rate/

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

 Buy Now

    Joseph Maynard Founder ReversingTheGray.com Joseph@ReversingTheGray.com

My Dear Friend,

Be honest with yourself. . .

Like me, you are probably Afraid you are developing gray hair too early in life

…It’s making you LOOK MUCH OLDER, and more importantly, FEEL MUCH OLDER…

And worse yet, it is affecting your CONFIDENCE, your LOVE LIFE, and maybe even Your ABILITY TO GET A JOB.

In today’s competitive world, Gray Hair is a DISADVANTAGE you don’t need.

I struggled with all of the above for over five years!…..I couldn’t find a job, was a loser in the dating scene, and worst of all, I felt like I was too old to compete with people younger than me.

I was tired of using hair dyes…not only because they were TOXIC but also, after it wore off my hair looked even MORE gray than before….

“I Was a Non-Believer At First”

Joseph,

I embarked on my search for a good program to reducing and reversing gray hair to recommend to my clients…I’m so glad I found your E-Book! I had been looking for months for something like this. I was a non-believer at first, but I really liked the fact that it’s so easy to do. I tried it myself and am happy to say I noticed stunning results after just a few months. My gray hair started diminishing and my hair looks GREAT!Thanks for all the help.

Michael Jersi Owner, Jersi Salon, Beverly Hills

I wanted to Break Free of the Trap that chemical hair dyes had on my life. Not only because of their toxicity, but also because…

In 2004, Scientific Studies Showed Hair Dyes cause BLOOD CANCER

You can read more about the study here – a Web MD summary article.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! I may be a foolish guinea pig, but I would never use anything KNOWING it’s going to cause cancer.

I wanted a NATURAL and SAFE alternative

I Was About to Settle For My Aging Appearance

Believe it or not, 2 years ago, I was about to just accept my aging appearance as the inevitable work of time! I looked everywhere but couldn’t find the information, let alone the solution I needed.

First, I scoured local health food stores and the internet for products that looked good…and literally tried them ALL…like a human guinea pig.

I found that none of them worked effectively over the long term. It was very frustrating!

“Darker, Fuller, Healthier Hair…in 3 months”

I just got done reading the book you wrote. It was very well written, very informative, and everything you said was direct, to the point, not complicated to understand, and very professional. It was short and sweet. I put the program to work immediately upon receiving it and have noticed much darker, fuller, healthier hair in just a matter of 3 months. I have since recommended it to family not clients since that would be taking away my business!! Tommy Mizrahi Owner – Rust Hair Salon Los Angeles, CA

Back to top

…Fast Forward One Year…

I did not give up! You might say I did “extreme” research.

Through a connection with a former boss, I actually got to interview a retired PhD chemist who had worked for a large French beauty products company.

My source had done a lot of research, on his own, about natural treatments for reversing gray hair.

What he told me was shocking!

It turns out that he not only knew about natural treatments to reverse gray hair, but also,…

“…Never shared it with his bosses because he knew they wouldn’t like it – it was not a money maker”

Well, as you can imagine, I was eager to get his formula, which I was eventually able to pry out of him.

I was not sure I believed it until…I tried it for myself and discovered it really does work.

My Friends – IT’S TRUE . . .

But you don’t have to take my word for it…read the numerous testimonials of people who have shared their success stories with me!

Success Story

Dear Joe,

I just wanted to let you know that after 3 months on your program, I couldn’t be more happy with the results. My wife seeing how happy I am is elated herself. Believe it or not, our marriage has become stronger in part because of you! Needless to say, I am very happy with the results.

Thanks!

Dennis Clifton, NJ

Success Story

I wanted to let you know that I was looking for something like this and wish I could tell everyone about it. I think I do look younger now. I have started paying closer attention to my stress levels per your suggestions in your stress manual and I think that’s helping out a lot. I also really like the fashion tips for men. Kudos on a great product!

Scott Scottsdale, AZ

Success Story

Hi!

At only 27 years old I started going gray Quickly. I really didn’t want to start coloring my hair. I turned to the web for answers and voila! the first site I landed on was ReversingtheGray.com – I was a bit skeptical at first, but you offer a money back guarantee that I couldn’t pass up. It was the best investment of my life. I’ve paid for this manual 1000 times over with the amount I save not coloring my hair at a salon.

Thanks!

Stacey R Chicago, IL

WARNING: Not All Natural Hair Remedies Are Created Equal!

Be careful, there are a lot of bogus products on the market.

There are none that I am aware of that work like this one, that have been researched by a guy from within the chemical industry… .

With Reversing the Gray, you obtain your goals with ease – in 90 days or less.

You CAN stop wondering what to do about your graying hair, once and for all…

“you never ever have to go back to being unhappy with your aging appearance or feeling less than anybody else ever again”

FIRST . . .

Let me give you a sample of what you will find inside this eBook…

You Are Seconds Away From Looking Younger & Feeling More Confident . . .

The bottom line – it works!

*FREE* BONUS BOOKS With Your Order!

If you purchase “Reversing the Gray” before , you’ll receive 4 bonus books (Retail Value: $99.80) – Yours Free with This time-limited offer!

Bonus Book #1 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The World’s Simplest Guide to Hairloss” A 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss. A collection of the latest thinking on hair loss and how to prevent it. It’s a must read for men and women who are serious about preventing hair loss.

Bonus Book #2 (a $29.95 retail value)

“Sit Back, Relax, and Say Goodbye to Stress” Find out how to recognize stress before it takes a serious toll on your life. Included are techniques to relieving stress and anxiety. Stress CAN have an impact on the color of your hair.

Bonus Book #3 (a $9.95 retail value)

“Style Tips for Men and Women” Just what the title says. A compendium of 15 fashion tips for men and 10 essential fashion tips for women. It’s a must read for the fashion “Dufus” (like me).

Bonus Book #4 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook” Incredibly useful complete guide to how coconut oil can benefit not only your hair, but also your skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart. Some of the best kept secrects on this “superfood” are in this eBook.

But wait, here’s the clincher….

60-Day 100% Moneyback Guarantee. We are so excited and so sure you will look and feel better after trying the remedies in “Reversing the Gray”that we will give you 100% of your money back if you are not satisfied for ANY reason, even 2 months after your purchase. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You’ll spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

If you want a formula that actually works, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Copy of Reversing the Gray™

Rated:

4 / 5 based on 14 customer reviews

Product description:

The Secret Remedy for Reversing Gray Hair Naturally

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

In stock

I understand I am purchasing state of the art e-books that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book immediately after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following FOUR BONUSES worth a total of $99.80 absolutely FREE…..

The World’s Simplest Guide to Hair Loss ($29.95 value)- 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress ($29.95 Value)- Insider tips on how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! The truth staying in good mental health.

Style Tips for Men and Women ($9.95 value)- 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook ($29.95 value)-Complete guide to how to use coconut oil to benefit your hair, skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart

I also understand my purchase today will be backed by a 100% risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: If after trying the techniques in Reversing the Gray, I am not looking more youthful and confident – I will receive a full refund of the purchase price

100% Secure No-Risk Order:

The proof is in customer results! Here are actual testimonials from folks just like you that are currently benefitting from the techniques found only in Reversing the Gray

Success Story

So glad I found your site. I’m beyond satisfied with the results I’ve noticed since trying out your program. Friends who I never thought would notice have made comments on how good and healthy my hair looks…

Michael S. Seattle, WA

Success Story

Thank you for writing such an easy to read book about how to combat graying hair. I am very happy with the results I have noticed in just over a month using your program. Finally, a program that actually works for a change…

Shelly Tobias Denver, CO

Back to top

Once you start noticing your new and improved look, your confidence will shoot through the roof!

Success Story

Joseph,

I finally finished reading the e-book. I am happy to say that I learned quite a few new things that I hope to put into practice to enhance my appearance, my health and my overall wellbeing . I look forward to continued results.

Tony Pensacola, FL

If you’re not completely satisfied with what you see when you look in the mirror – you NEED this information!

Success Story

Dear Joseph,

I have to say I am so glad I found this e-book. Reversing my gray hair took a bit longer than usual, but when I finally started seeing results, I was ecstatic. I also really like your manual on Stress reducing techniques. I use them on a regular basis! I look forward to meeting you in person to give you hug!

Sean N. New York, NY

Success Story

This book was extremely helpful. Reversing the Gray, is an honest, heartfelt guide that addresses many concerns that we gen x’ers have about our hair color. I can honestly say that this is the only book of its kind. I saw my few gray hairs fill in with my previous color at around the two month mark

Thanks!

Monique P Knoxville, TN

Success Story

This was the best money I ever spent on myself. I read all of the reviews, but until I tried it for myself, I was a non-believer. Well, I’m on the bandwagon now! My hair looks darker, fuller, and healthier. I’ve seen my gray hair be cut in half and look forward to more results.

Jake Birmingham, UK

Success Story

Dear Miracle Worker,

I just wanted you to know that since I started reading “Reversing the Gray” program, I really do feel more confident when I go out. Just knowing I’m taking the time to look my best really does make a difference. I surprised myself with the astounding results. Thanks.

Sean Dallas, TX

Back to top

But wait, there’s even more….

You have nothing to lose. We are so excited and so sure you will look better after trying the techniques in “Reversing the Gray” that we are offering a 100% money back guarantee. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

We’ve kept the price extremely low so that anyone can afford to find out this valuable information.

If you want results that last a lifetime, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Ebook Copy of Reversing the Gray™

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

I understand I am purchasing an e-book that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book less than 5 minutes after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following two bonuses worth a total of $39.90.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress – Find out how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! This cutting edge information is a MUST for anyone who wants to know the truth about staying in good mental health.

Fashion Tips for Men and Women – 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

I also understand my purchase today will be backed 100% by the following better than risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: “If after sincerely giving the techniques found within Reversing the Gray™ a try, and do not find your hair returning to its youthful appearance – I will give you a full refund of the purchase price – and you can take 60 days to decide.”

Order Your Copy Today:

Click on the button below to process your order online with our safe and secure merchant, Clickbank. There are three ordering options: 1) Pay with a Credit Card, 2) Checking Account, or 3) Paypal Account.

Thanks to my immediate download feature, you can find out ALL the valuable information on how to look your best and gain the expert advice in Reversing the Gray™ in just seconds from now!

Get Your Copy Now!

[allenmendezsr]

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

New Post has been published on https://autotraffixpro.app/allenmendezsr/natural-remedy-to-reverse-gray-hair-massive-conversion-rate/

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

 Buy Now

    Joseph Maynard Founder ReversingTheGray.com Joseph@ReversingTheGray.com

My Dear Friend,

Be honest with yourself. . .

Like me, you are probably Afraid you are developing gray hair too early in life

…It’s making you LOOK MUCH OLDER, and more importantly, FEEL MUCH OLDER…

And worse yet, it is affecting your CONFIDENCE, your LOVE LIFE, and maybe even Your ABILITY TO GET A JOB.

In today’s competitive world, Gray Hair is a DISADVANTAGE you don’t need.

I struggled with all of the above for over five years!…..I couldn’t find a job, was a loser in the dating scene, and worst of all, I felt like I was too old to compete with people younger than me.

I was tired of using hair dyes…not only because they were TOXIC but also, after it wore off my hair looked even MORE gray than before….

“I Was a Non-Believer At First”

Joseph,

I embarked on my search for a good program to reducing and reversing gray hair to recommend to my clients…I’m so glad I found your E-Book! I had been looking for months for something like this. I was a non-believer at first, but I really liked the fact that it’s so easy to do. I tried it myself and am happy to say I noticed stunning results after just a few months. My gray hair started diminishing and my hair looks GREAT!Thanks for all the help.

Michael Jersi Owner, Jersi Salon, Beverly Hills

I wanted to Break Free of the Trap that chemical hair dyes had on my life. Not only because of their toxicity, but also because…

In 2004, Scientific Studies Showed Hair Dyes cause BLOOD CANCER

You can read more about the study here – a Web MD summary article.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! I may be a foolish guinea pig, but I would never use anything KNOWING it’s going to cause cancer.

I wanted a NATURAL and SAFE alternative

I Was About to Settle For My Aging Appearance

Believe it or not, 2 years ago, I was about to just accept my aging appearance as the inevitable work of time! I looked everywhere but couldn’t find the information, let alone the solution I needed.

First, I scoured local health food stores and the internet for products that looked good…and literally tried them ALL…like a human guinea pig.

I found that none of them worked effectively over the long term. It was very frustrating!

“Darker, Fuller, Healthier Hair…in 3 months”

I just got done reading the book you wrote. It was very well written, very informative, and everything you said was direct, to the point, not complicated to understand, and very professional. It was short and sweet. I put the program to work immediately upon receiving it and have noticed much darker, fuller, healthier hair in just a matter of 3 months. I have since recommended it to family not clients since that would be taking away my business!! Tommy Mizrahi Owner – Rust Hair Salon Los Angeles, CA

Back to top

…Fast Forward One Year…

I did not give up! You might say I did “extreme” research.

Through a connection with a former boss, I actually got to interview a retired PhD chemist who had worked for a large French beauty products company.

My source had done a lot of research, on his own, about natural treatments for reversing gray hair.

What he told me was shocking!

It turns out that he not only knew about natural treatments to reverse gray hair, but also,…

“…Never shared it with his bosses because he knew they wouldn’t like it – it was not a money maker”

Well, as you can imagine, I was eager to get his formula, which I was eventually able to pry out of him.

I was not sure I believed it until…I tried it for myself and discovered it really does work.

My Friends – IT’S TRUE . . .

But you don’t have to take my word for it…read the numerous testimonials of people who have shared their success stories with me!

Success Story

Dear Joe,

I just wanted to let you know that after 3 months on your program, I couldn’t be more happy with the results. My wife seeing how happy I am is elated herself. Believe it or not, our marriage has become stronger in part because of you! Needless to say, I am very happy with the results.

Thanks!

Dennis Clifton, NJ

Success Story

I wanted to let you know that I was looking for something like this and wish I could tell everyone about it. I think I do look younger now. I have started paying closer attention to my stress levels per your suggestions in your stress manual and I think that’s helping out a lot. I also really like the fashion tips for men. Kudos on a great product!

Scott Scottsdale, AZ

Success Story

Hi!

At only 27 years old I started going gray Quickly. I really didn’t want to start coloring my hair. I turned to the web for answers and voila! the first site I landed on was ReversingtheGray.com – I was a bit skeptical at first, but you offer a money back guarantee that I couldn’t pass up. It was the best investment of my life. I’ve paid for this manual 1000 times over with the amount I save not coloring my hair at a salon.

Thanks!

Stacey R Chicago, IL

WARNING: Not All Natural Hair Remedies Are Created Equal!

Be careful, there are a lot of bogus products on the market.

There are none that I am aware of that work like this one, that have been researched by a guy from within the chemical industry… .

With Reversing the Gray, you obtain your goals with ease – in 90 days or less.

You CAN stop wondering what to do about your graying hair, once and for all…

“you never ever have to go back to being unhappy with your aging appearance or feeling less than anybody else ever again”

FIRST . . .

Let me give you a sample of what you will find inside this eBook…

You Are Seconds Away From Looking Younger & Feeling More Confident . . .

The bottom line – it works!

*FREE* BONUS BOOKS With Your Order!

If you purchase “Reversing the Gray” before , you’ll receive 4 bonus books (Retail Value: $99.80) – Yours Free with This time-limited offer!

Bonus Book #1 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The World’s Simplest Guide to Hairloss” A 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss. A collection of the latest thinking on hair loss and how to prevent it. It’s a must read for men and women who are serious about preventing hair loss.

Bonus Book #2 (a $29.95 retail value)

“Sit Back, Relax, and Say Goodbye to Stress” Find out how to recognize stress before it takes a serious toll on your life. Included are techniques to relieving stress and anxiety. Stress CAN have an impact on the color of your hair.

Bonus Book #3 (a $9.95 retail value)

“Style Tips for Men and Women” Just what the title says. A compendium of 15 fashion tips for men and 10 essential fashion tips for women. It’s a must read for the fashion “Dufus” (like me).

Bonus Book #4 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook” Incredibly useful complete guide to how coconut oil can benefit not only your hair, but also your skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart. Some of the best kept secrects on this “superfood” are in this eBook.

But wait, here’s the clincher….

60-Day 100% Moneyback Guarantee. We are so excited and so sure you will look and feel better after trying the remedies in “Reversing the Gray”that we will give you 100% of your money back if you are not satisfied for ANY reason, even 2 months after your purchase. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You’ll spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

If you want a formula that actually works, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Copy of Reversing the Gray™

Rated:

4 / 5 based on 14 customer reviews

Product description:

The Secret Remedy for Reversing Gray Hair Naturally

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

In stock

I understand I am purchasing state of the art e-books that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book immediately after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following FOUR BONUSES worth a total of $99.80 absolutely FREE…..

The World’s Simplest Guide to Hair Loss ($29.95 value)- 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress ($29.95 Value)- Insider tips on how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! The truth staying in good mental health.

Style Tips for Men and Women ($9.95 value)- 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook ($29.95 value)-Complete guide to how to use coconut oil to benefit your hair, skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart

I also understand my purchase today will be backed by a 100% risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: If after trying the techniques in Reversing the Gray, I am not looking more youthful and confident – I will receive a full refund of the purchase price

100% Secure No-Risk Order:

The proof is in customer results! Here are actual testimonials from folks just like you that are currently benefitting from the techniques found only in Reversing the Gray

Success Story

So glad I found your site. I’m beyond satisfied with the results I’ve noticed since trying out your program. Friends who I never thought would notice have made comments on how good and healthy my hair looks…

Michael S. Seattle, WA

Success Story

Thank you for writing such an easy to read book about how to combat graying hair. I am very happy with the results I have noticed in just over a month using your program. Finally, a program that actually works for a change…

Shelly Tobias Denver, CO

Back to top

Once you start noticing your new and improved look, your confidence will shoot through the roof!

Success Story

Joseph,

I finally finished reading the e-book. I am happy to say that I learned quite a few new things that I hope to put into practice to enhance my appearance, my health and my overall wellbeing . I look forward to continued results.

Tony Pensacola, FL

If you’re not completely satisfied with what you see when you look in the mirror – you NEED this information!

Success Story

Dear Joseph,

I have to say I am so glad I found this e-book. Reversing my gray hair took a bit longer than usual, but when I finally started seeing results, I was ecstatic. I also really like your manual on Stress reducing techniques. I use them on a regular basis! I look forward to meeting you in person to give you hug!

Sean N. New York, NY

Success Story

This book was extremely helpful. Reversing the Gray, is an honest, heartfelt guide that addresses many concerns that we gen x’ers have about our hair color. I can honestly say that this is the only book of its kind. I saw my few gray hairs fill in with my previous color at around the two month mark

Thanks!

Monique P Knoxville, TN

Success Story

This was the best money I ever spent on myself. I read all of the reviews, but until I tried it for myself, I was a non-believer. Well, I’m on the bandwagon now! My hair looks darker, fuller, and healthier. I’ve seen my gray hair be cut in half and look forward to more results.

Jake Birmingham, UK

Success Story

Dear Miracle Worker,

I just wanted you to know that since I started reading “Reversing the Gray” program, I really do feel more confident when I go out. Just knowing I’m taking the time to look my best really does make a difference. I surprised myself with the astounding results. Thanks.

Sean Dallas, TX

Back to top

But wait, there’s even more….

You have nothing to lose. We are so excited and so sure you will look better after trying the techniques in “Reversing the Gray” that we are offering a 100% money back guarantee. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

We’ve kept the price extremely low so that anyone can afford to find out this valuable information.

If you want results that last a lifetime, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Ebook Copy of Reversing the Gray™

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

I understand I am purchasing an e-book that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book less than 5 minutes after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following two bonuses worth a total of $39.90.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress – Find out how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! This cutting edge information is a MUST for anyone who wants to know the truth about staying in good mental health.

Fashion Tips for Men and Women – 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

I also understand my purchase today will be backed 100% by the following better than risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: “If after sincerely giving the techniques found within Reversing the Gray™ a try, and do not find your hair returning to its youthful appearance – I will give you a full refund of the purchase price – and you can take 60 days to decide.”

Order Your Copy Today:

Click on the button below to process your order online with our safe and secure merchant, Clickbank. There are three ordering options: 1) Pay with a Credit Card, 2) Checking Account, or 3) Paypal Account.

Thanks to my immediate download feature, you can find out ALL the valuable information on how to look your best and gain the expert advice in Reversing the Gray™ in just seconds from now!

Get Your Copy Now!

[allenmendezsr]

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

New Post has been published on https://autotraffixpro.app/allenmendezsr/natural-remedy-to-reverse-gray-hair-massive-conversion-rate/

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

 Buy Now

    Joseph Maynard Founder ReversingTheGray.com Joseph@ReversingTheGray.com

My Dear Friend,

Be honest with yourself. . .

Like me, you are probably Afraid you are developing gray hair too early in life

…It’s making you LOOK MUCH OLDER, and more importantly, FEEL MUCH OLDER…

And worse yet, it is affecting your CONFIDENCE, your LOVE LIFE, and maybe even Your ABILITY TO GET A JOB.

In today’s competitive world, Gray Hair is a DISADVANTAGE you don’t need.

I struggled with all of the above for over five years!…..I couldn’t find a job, was a loser in the dating scene, and worst of all, I felt like I was too old to compete with people younger than me.

I was tired of using hair dyes…not only because they were TOXIC but also, after it wore off my hair looked even MORE gray than before….

“I Was a Non-Believer At First”

Joseph,

I embarked on my search for a good program to reducing and reversing gray hair to recommend to my clients…I’m so glad I found your E-Book! I had been looking for months for something like this. I was a non-believer at first, but I really liked the fact that it’s so easy to do. I tried it myself and am happy to say I noticed stunning results after just a few months. My gray hair started diminishing and my hair looks GREAT!Thanks for all the help.

Michael Jersi Owner, Jersi Salon, Beverly Hills

I wanted to Break Free of the Trap that chemical hair dyes had on my life. Not only because of their toxicity, but also because…

In 2004, Scientific Studies Showed Hair Dyes cause BLOOD CANCER

You can read more about the study here – a Web MD summary article.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! I may be a foolish guinea pig, but I would never use anything KNOWING it’s going to cause cancer.

I wanted a NATURAL and SAFE alternative

I Was About to Settle For My Aging Appearance

Believe it or not, 2 years ago, I was about to just accept my aging appearance as the inevitable work of time! I looked everywhere but couldn’t find the information, let alone the solution I needed.

First, I scoured local health food stores and the internet for products that looked good…and literally tried them ALL…like a human guinea pig.

I found that none of them worked effectively over the long term. It was very frustrating!

“Darker, Fuller, Healthier Hair…in 3 months”

I just got done reading the book you wrote. It was very well written, very informative, and everything you said was direct, to the point, not complicated to understand, and very professional. It was short and sweet. I put the program to work immediately upon receiving it and have noticed much darker, fuller, healthier hair in just a matter of 3 months. I have since recommended it to family not clients since that would be taking away my business!! Tommy Mizrahi Owner – Rust Hair Salon Los Angeles, CA

Back to top

…Fast Forward One Year…

I did not give up! You might say I did “extreme” research.

Through a connection with a former boss, I actually got to interview a retired PhD chemist who had worked for a large French beauty products company.

My source had done a lot of research, on his own, about natural treatments for reversing gray hair.

What he told me was shocking!

It turns out that he not only knew about natural treatments to reverse gray hair, but also,…

“…Never shared it with his bosses because he knew they wouldn’t like it – it was not a money maker”

Well, as you can imagine, I was eager to get his formula, which I was eventually able to pry out of him.

I was not sure I believed it until…I tried it for myself and discovered it really does work.

My Friends – IT’S TRUE . . .

But you don’t have to take my word for it…read the numerous testimonials of people who have shared their success stories with me!

Success Story

Dear Joe,

I just wanted to let you know that after 3 months on your program, I couldn’t be more happy with the results. My wife seeing how happy I am is elated herself. Believe it or not, our marriage has become stronger in part because of you! Needless to say, I am very happy with the results.

Thanks!

Dennis Clifton, NJ

Success Story

I wanted to let you know that I was looking for something like this and wish I could tell everyone about it. I think I do look younger now. I have started paying closer attention to my stress levels per your suggestions in your stress manual and I think that’s helping out a lot. I also really like the fashion tips for men. Kudos on a great product!

Scott Scottsdale, AZ

Success Story

Hi!

At only 27 years old I started going gray Quickly. I really didn’t want to start coloring my hair. I turned to the web for answers and voila! the first site I landed on was ReversingtheGray.com – I was a bit skeptical at first, but you offer a money back guarantee that I couldn’t pass up. It was the best investment of my life. I’ve paid for this manual 1000 times over with the amount I save not coloring my hair at a salon.

Thanks!

Stacey R Chicago, IL

WARNING: Not All Natural Hair Remedies Are Created Equal!

Be careful, there are a lot of bogus products on the market.

There are none that I am aware of that work like this one, that have been researched by a guy from within the chemical industry… .

With Reversing the Gray, you obtain your goals with ease – in 90 days or less.

You CAN stop wondering what to do about your graying hair, once and for all…

“you never ever have to go back to being unhappy with your aging appearance or feeling less than anybody else ever again”

FIRST . . .

Let me give you a sample of what you will find inside this eBook…

You Are Seconds Away From Looking Younger & Feeling More Confident . . .

The bottom line – it works!

*FREE* BONUS BOOKS With Your Order!

If you purchase “Reversing the Gray” before , you’ll receive 4 bonus books (Retail Value: $99.80) – Yours Free with This time-limited offer!

Bonus Book #1 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The World’s Simplest Guide to Hairloss” A 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss. A collection of the latest thinking on hair loss and how to prevent it. It’s a must read for men and women who are serious about preventing hair loss.

Bonus Book #2 (a $29.95 retail value)

“Sit Back, Relax, and Say Goodbye to Stress” Find out how to recognize stress before it takes a serious toll on your life. Included are techniques to relieving stress and anxiety. Stress CAN have an impact on the color of your hair.

Bonus Book #3 (a $9.95 retail value)

“Style Tips for Men and Women” Just what the title says. A compendium of 15 fashion tips for men and 10 essential fashion tips for women. It’s a must read for the fashion “Dufus” (like me).

Bonus Book #4 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook” Incredibly useful complete guide to how coconut oil can benefit not only your hair, but also your skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart. Some of the best kept secrects on this “superfood” are in this eBook.

But wait, here’s the clincher….

60-Day 100% Moneyback Guarantee. We are so excited and so sure you will look and feel better after trying the remedies in “Reversing the Gray”that we will give you 100% of your money back if you are not satisfied for ANY reason, even 2 months after your purchase. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You’ll spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

If you want a formula that actually works, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Copy of Reversing the Gray™

Rated:

4 / 5 based on 14 customer reviews

Product description:

The Secret Remedy for Reversing Gray Hair Naturally

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

In stock

I understand I am purchasing state of the art e-books that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book immediately after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following FOUR BONUSES worth a total of $99.80 absolutely FREE…..

The World’s Simplest Guide to Hair Loss ($29.95 value)- 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress ($29.95 Value)- Insider tips on how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! The truth staying in good mental health.

Style Tips for Men and Women ($9.95 value)- 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook ($29.95 value)-Complete guide to how to use coconut oil to benefit your hair, skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart

I also understand my purchase today will be backed by a 100% risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: If after trying the techniques in Reversing the Gray, I am not looking more youthful and confident – I will receive a full refund of the purchase price

100% Secure No-Risk Order:

The proof is in customer results! Here are actual testimonials from folks just like you that are currently benefitting from the techniques found only in Reversing the Gray

Success Story

So glad I found your site. I’m beyond satisfied with the results I’ve noticed since trying out your program. Friends who I never thought would notice have made comments on how good and healthy my hair looks…

Michael S. Seattle, WA

Success Story

Thank you for writing such an easy to read book about how to combat graying hair. I am very happy with the results I have noticed in just over a month using your program. Finally, a program that actually works for a change…

Shelly Tobias Denver, CO

Back to top

Once you start noticing your new and improved look, your confidence will shoot through the roof!

Success Story

Joseph,

I finally finished reading the e-book. I am happy to say that I learned quite a few new things that I hope to put into practice to enhance my appearance, my health and my overall wellbeing . I look forward to continued results.

Tony Pensacola, FL

If you’re not completely satisfied with what you see when you look in the mirror – you NEED this information!

Success Story

Dear Joseph,

I have to say I am so glad I found this e-book. Reversing my gray hair took a bit longer than usual, but when I finally started seeing results, I was ecstatic. I also really like your manual on Stress reducing techniques. I use them on a regular basis! I look forward to meeting you in person to give you hug!

Sean N. New York, NY

Success Story

This book was extremely helpful. Reversing the Gray, is an honest, heartfelt guide that addresses many concerns that we gen x’ers have about our hair color. I can honestly say that this is the only book of its kind. I saw my few gray hairs fill in with my previous color at around the two month mark

Thanks!

Monique P Knoxville, TN

Success Story

This was the best money I ever spent on myself. I read all of the reviews, but until I tried it for myself, I was a non-believer. Well, I’m on the bandwagon now! My hair looks darker, fuller, and healthier. I’ve seen my gray hair be cut in half and look forward to more results.

Jake Birmingham, UK

Success Story

Dear Miracle Worker,

I just wanted you to know that since I started reading “Reversing the Gray” program, I really do feel more confident when I go out. Just knowing I’m taking the time to look my best really does make a difference. I surprised myself with the astounding results. Thanks.

Sean Dallas, TX

Back to top

But wait, there’s even more….

You have nothing to lose. We are so excited and so sure you will look better after trying the techniques in “Reversing the Gray” that we are offering a 100% money back guarantee. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

We’ve kept the price extremely low so that anyone can afford to find out this valuable information.

If you want results that last a lifetime, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Ebook Copy of Reversing the Gray™

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

I understand I am purchasing an e-book that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book less than 5 minutes after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following two bonuses worth a total of $39.90.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress – Find out how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! This cutting edge information is a MUST for anyone who wants to know the truth about staying in good mental health.

Fashion Tips for Men and Women – 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

I also understand my purchase today will be backed 100% by the following better than risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: “If after sincerely giving the techniques found within Reversing the Gray™ a try, and do not find your hair returning to its youthful appearance – I will give you a full refund of the purchase price – and you can take 60 days to decide.”

Order Your Copy Today:

Click on the button below to process your order online with our safe and secure merchant, Clickbank. There are three ordering options: 1) Pay with a Credit Card, 2) Checking Account, or 3) Paypal Account.

Thanks to my immediate download feature, you can find out ALL the valuable information on how to look your best and gain the expert advice in Reversing the Gray™ in just seconds from now!

Get Your Copy Now!

[allenmendezsr]

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

New Post has been published on https://autotraffixpro.app/allenmendezsr/natural-remedy-to-reverse-gray-hair-massive-conversion-rate/

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

 Buy Now

    Joseph Maynard Founder ReversingTheGray.com Joseph@ReversingTheGray.com

My Dear Friend,

Be honest with yourself. . .

Like me, you are probably Afraid you are developing gray hair too early in life

…It’s making you LOOK MUCH OLDER, and more importantly, FEEL MUCH OLDER…

And worse yet, it is affecting your CONFIDENCE, your LOVE LIFE, and maybe even Your ABILITY TO GET A JOB.

In today’s competitive world, Gray Hair is a DISADVANTAGE you don’t need.

I struggled with all of the above for over five years!…..I couldn’t find a job, was a loser in the dating scene, and worst of all, I felt like I was too old to compete with people younger than me.

I was tired of using hair dyes…not only because they were TOXIC but also, after it wore off my hair looked even MORE gray than before….

“I Was a Non-Believer At First”

Joseph,

I embarked on my search for a good program to reducing and reversing gray hair to recommend to my clients…I’m so glad I found your E-Book! I had been looking for months for something like this. I was a non-believer at first, but I really liked the fact that it’s so easy to do. I tried it myself and am happy to say I noticed stunning results after just a few months. My gray hair started diminishing and my hair looks GREAT!Thanks for all the help.

Michael Jersi Owner, Jersi Salon, Beverly Hills

I wanted to Break Free of the Trap that chemical hair dyes had on my life. Not only because of their toxicity, but also because…

In 2004, Scientific Studies Showed Hair Dyes cause BLOOD CANCER

You can read more about the study here – a Web MD summary article.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! I may be a foolish guinea pig, but I would never use anything KNOWING it’s going to cause cancer.

I wanted a NATURAL and SAFE alternative

I Was About to Settle For My Aging Appearance

Believe it or not, 2 years ago, I was about to just accept my aging appearance as the inevitable work of time! I looked everywhere but couldn’t find the information, let alone the solution I needed.

First, I scoured local health food stores and the internet for products that looked good…and literally tried them ALL…like a human guinea pig.

I found that none of them worked effectively over the long term. It was very frustrating!

“Darker, Fuller, Healthier Hair…in 3 months”

I just got done reading the book you wrote. It was very well written, very informative, and everything you said was direct, to the point, not complicated to understand, and very professional. It was short and sweet. I put the program to work immediately upon receiving it and have noticed much darker, fuller, healthier hair in just a matter of 3 months. I have since recommended it to family not clients since that would be taking away my business!! Tommy Mizrahi Owner – Rust Hair Salon Los Angeles, CA

Back to top

…Fast Forward One Year…

I did not give up! You might say I did “extreme” research.

Through a connection with a former boss, I actually got to interview a retired PhD chemist who had worked for a large French beauty products company.

My source had done a lot of research, on his own, about natural treatments for reversing gray hair.

What he told me was shocking!

It turns out that he not only knew about natural treatments to reverse gray hair, but also,…

“…Never shared it with his bosses because he knew they wouldn’t like it – it was not a money maker”

Well, as you can imagine, I was eager to get his formula, which I was eventually able to pry out of him.

I was not sure I believed it until…I tried it for myself and discovered it really does work.

My Friends – IT’S TRUE . . .

But you don’t have to take my word for it…read the numerous testimonials of people who have shared their success stories with me!

Success Story

Dear Joe,

I just wanted to let you know that after 3 months on your program, I couldn’t be more happy with the results. My wife seeing how happy I am is elated herself. Believe it or not, our marriage has become stronger in part because of you! Needless to say, I am very happy with the results.

Thanks!

Dennis Clifton, NJ

Success Story

I wanted to let you know that I was looking for something like this and wish I could tell everyone about it. I think I do look younger now. I have started paying closer attention to my stress levels per your suggestions in your stress manual and I think that’s helping out a lot. I also really like the fashion tips for men. Kudos on a great product!

Scott Scottsdale, AZ

Success Story

Hi!

At only 27 years old I started going gray Quickly. I really didn’t want to start coloring my hair. I turned to the web for answers and voila! the first site I landed on was ReversingtheGray.com – I was a bit skeptical at first, but you offer a money back guarantee that I couldn’t pass up. It was the best investment of my life. I’ve paid for this manual 1000 times over with the amount I save not coloring my hair at a salon.

Thanks!

Stacey R Chicago, IL

WARNING: Not All Natural Hair Remedies Are Created Equal!

Be careful, there are a lot of bogus products on the market.

There are none that I am aware of that work like this one, that have been researched by a guy from within the chemical industry… .

With Reversing the Gray, you obtain your goals with ease – in 90 days or less.

You CAN stop wondering what to do about your graying hair, once and for all…

“you never ever have to go back to being unhappy with your aging appearance or feeling less than anybody else ever again”

FIRST . . .

Let me give you a sample of what you will find inside this eBook…

You Are Seconds Away From Looking Younger & Feeling More Confident . . .

The bottom line – it works!

*FREE* BONUS BOOKS With Your Order!

If you purchase “Reversing the Gray” before , you’ll receive 4 bonus books (Retail Value: $99.80) – Yours Free with This time-limited offer!

Bonus Book #1 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The World’s Simplest Guide to Hairloss” A 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss. A collection of the latest thinking on hair loss and how to prevent it. It’s a must read for men and women who are serious about preventing hair loss.

Bonus Book #2 (a $29.95 retail value)

“Sit Back, Relax, and Say Goodbye to Stress” Find out how to recognize stress before it takes a serious toll on your life. Included are techniques to relieving stress and anxiety. Stress CAN have an impact on the color of your hair.

Bonus Book #3 (a $9.95 retail value)

“Style Tips for Men and Women” Just what the title says. A compendium of 15 fashion tips for men and 10 essential fashion tips for women. It’s a must read for the fashion “Dufus” (like me).

Bonus Book #4 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook” Incredibly useful complete guide to how coconut oil can benefit not only your hair, but also your skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart. Some of the best kept secrects on this “superfood” are in this eBook.

But wait, here’s the clincher….

60-Day 100% Moneyback Guarantee. We are so excited and so sure you will look and feel better after trying the remedies in “Reversing the Gray”that we will give you 100% of your money back if you are not satisfied for ANY reason, even 2 months after your purchase. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You’ll spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

If you want a formula that actually works, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Copy of Reversing the Gray™

Rated:

4 / 5 based on 14 customer reviews

Product description:

The Secret Remedy for Reversing Gray Hair Naturally

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

In stock

I understand I am purchasing state of the art e-books that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book immediately after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following FOUR BONUSES worth a total of $99.80 absolutely FREE…..

The World’s Simplest Guide to Hair Loss ($29.95 value)- 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress ($29.95 Value)- Insider tips on how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! The truth staying in good mental health.

Style Tips for Men and Women ($9.95 value)- 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook ($29.95 value)-Complete guide to how to use coconut oil to benefit your hair, skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart

I also understand my purchase today will be backed by a 100% risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: If after trying the techniques in Reversing the Gray, I am not looking more youthful and confident – I will receive a full refund of the purchase price

100% Secure No-Risk Order:

The proof is in customer results! Here are actual testimonials from folks just like you that are currently benefitting from the techniques found only in Reversing the Gray

Success Story

So glad I found your site. I’m beyond satisfied with the results I’ve noticed since trying out your program. Friends who I never thought would notice have made comments on how good and healthy my hair looks…

Michael S. Seattle, WA

Success Story

Thank you for writing such an easy to read book about how to combat graying hair. I am very happy with the results I have noticed in just over a month using your program. Finally, a program that actually works for a change…

Shelly Tobias Denver, CO

Back to top

Once you start noticing your new and improved look, your confidence will shoot through the roof!

Success Story

Joseph,

I finally finished reading the e-book. I am happy to say that I learned quite a few new things that I hope to put into practice to enhance my appearance, my health and my overall wellbeing . I look forward to continued results.

Tony Pensacola, FL

If you’re not completely satisfied with what you see when you look in the mirror – you NEED this information!

Success Story

Dear Joseph,

I have to say I am so glad I found this e-book. Reversing my gray hair took a bit longer than usual, but when I finally started seeing results, I was ecstatic. I also really like your manual on Stress reducing techniques. I use them on a regular basis! I look forward to meeting you in person to give you hug!

Sean N. New York, NY

Success Story

This book was extremely helpful. Reversing the Gray, is an honest, heartfelt guide that addresses many concerns that we gen x’ers have about our hair color. I can honestly say that this is the only book of its kind. I saw my few gray hairs fill in with my previous color at around the two month mark

Thanks!

Monique P Knoxville, TN

Success Story

This was the best money I ever spent on myself. I read all of the reviews, but until I tried it for myself, I was a non-believer. Well, I’m on the bandwagon now! My hair looks darker, fuller, and healthier. I’ve seen my gray hair be cut in half and look forward to more results.

Jake Birmingham, UK

Success Story

Dear Miracle Worker,

I just wanted you to know that since I started reading “Reversing the Gray” program, I really do feel more confident when I go out. Just knowing I’m taking the time to look my best really does make a difference. I surprised myself with the astounding results. Thanks.

Sean Dallas, TX

Back to top

But wait, there’s even more….

You have nothing to lose. We are so excited and so sure you will look better after trying the techniques in “Reversing the Gray” that we are offering a 100% money back guarantee. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

We’ve kept the price extremely low so that anyone can afford to find out this valuable information.

If you want results that last a lifetime, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Ebook Copy of Reversing the Gray™

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

I understand I am purchasing an e-book that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book less than 5 minutes after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following two bonuses worth a total of $39.90.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress – Find out how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! This cutting edge information is a MUST for anyone who wants to know the truth about staying in good mental health.

Fashion Tips for Men and Women – 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

I also understand my purchase today will be backed 100% by the following better than risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: “If after sincerely giving the techniques found within Reversing the Gray™ a try, and do not find your hair returning to its youthful appearance – I will give you a full refund of the purchase price – and you can take 60 days to decide.”

Order Your Copy Today:

Click on the button below to process your order online with our safe and secure merchant, Clickbank. There are three ordering options: 1) Pay with a Credit Card, 2) Checking Account, or 3) Paypal Account.

Thanks to my immediate download feature, you can find out ALL the valuable information on how to look your best and gain the expert advice in Reversing the Gray™ in just seconds from now!

Get Your Copy Now!

[allenmendezsr]

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

New Post has been published on https://autotraffixpro.app/allenmendezsr/natural-remedy-to-reverse-gray-hair-massive-conversion-rate/

Natural Remedy To Reverse Gray Hair - Massive Conversion Rate!!

 Buy Now

    Joseph Maynard Founder ReversingTheGray.com Joseph@ReversingTheGray.com

My Dear Friend,

Be honest with yourself. . .

Like me, you are probably Afraid you are developing gray hair too early in life

…It’s making you LOOK MUCH OLDER, and more importantly, FEEL MUCH OLDER…

And worse yet, it is affecting your CONFIDENCE, your LOVE LIFE, and maybe even Your ABILITY TO GET A JOB.

In today’s competitive world, Gray Hair is a DISADVANTAGE you don’t need.

I struggled with all of the above for over five years!…..I couldn’t find a job, was a loser in the dating scene, and worst of all, I felt like I was too old to compete with people younger than me.

I was tired of using hair dyes…not only because they were TOXIC but also, after it wore off my hair looked even MORE gray than before….

“I Was a Non-Believer At First”

Joseph,

I embarked on my search for a good program to reducing and reversing gray hair to recommend to my clients…I’m so glad I found your E-Book! I had been looking for months for something like this. I was a non-believer at first, but I really liked the fact that it’s so easy to do. I tried it myself and am happy to say I noticed stunning results after just a few months. My gray hair started diminishing and my hair looks GREAT!Thanks for all the help.

Michael Jersi Owner, Jersi Salon, Beverly Hills

I wanted to Break Free of the Trap that chemical hair dyes had on my life. Not only because of their toxicity, but also because…

In 2004, Scientific Studies Showed Hair Dyes cause BLOOD CANCER

You can read more about the study here – a Web MD summary article.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! I may be a foolish guinea pig, but I would never use anything KNOWING it’s going to cause cancer.

I wanted a NATURAL and SAFE alternative

I Was About to Settle For My Aging Appearance

Believe it or not, 2 years ago, I was about to just accept my aging appearance as the inevitable work of time! I looked everywhere but couldn’t find the information, let alone the solution I needed.

First, I scoured local health food stores and the internet for products that looked good…and literally tried them ALL…like a human guinea pig.

I found that none of them worked effectively over the long term. It was very frustrating!

“Darker, Fuller, Healthier Hair…in 3 months”

I just got done reading the book you wrote. It was very well written, very informative, and everything you said was direct, to the point, not complicated to understand, and very professional. It was short and sweet. I put the program to work immediately upon receiving it and have noticed much darker, fuller, healthier hair in just a matter of 3 months. I have since recommended it to family not clients since that would be taking away my business!! Tommy Mizrahi Owner – Rust Hair Salon Los Angeles, CA

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…Fast Forward One Year…

I did not give up! You might say I did “extreme” research.

Through a connection with a former boss, I actually got to interview a retired PhD chemist who had worked for a large French beauty products company.

My source had done a lot of research, on his own, about natural treatments for reversing gray hair.

What he told me was shocking!

It turns out that he not only knew about natural treatments to reverse gray hair, but also,…

“…Never shared it with his bosses because he knew they wouldn’t like it – it was not a money maker”

Well, as you can imagine, I was eager to get his formula, which I was eventually able to pry out of him.

I was not sure I believed it until…I tried it for myself and discovered it really does work.

My Friends – IT’S TRUE . . .

But you don’t have to take my word for it…read the numerous testimonials of people who have shared their success stories with me!

Success Story

Dear Joe,

I just wanted to let you know that after 3 months on your program, I couldn’t be more happy with the results. My wife seeing how happy I am is elated herself. Believe it or not, our marriage has become stronger in part because of you! Needless to say, I am very happy with the results.

Thanks!

Dennis Clifton, NJ

Success Story

I wanted to let you know that I was looking for something like this and wish I could tell everyone about it. I think I do look younger now. I have started paying closer attention to my stress levels per your suggestions in your stress manual and I think that’s helping out a lot. I also really like the fashion tips for men. Kudos on a great product!

Scott Scottsdale, AZ

Success Story

Hi!

At only 27 years old I started going gray Quickly. I really didn’t want to start coloring my hair. I turned to the web for answers and voila! the first site I landed on was ReversingtheGray.com – I was a bit skeptical at first, but you offer a money back guarantee that I couldn’t pass up. It was the best investment of my life. I’ve paid for this manual 1000 times over with the amount I save not coloring my hair at a salon.

Thanks!

Stacey R Chicago, IL

WARNING: Not All Natural Hair Remedies Are Created Equal!

Be careful, there are a lot of bogus products on the market.

There are none that I am aware of that work like this one, that have been researched by a guy from within the chemical industry… .

With Reversing the Gray, you obtain your goals with ease – in 90 days or less.

You CAN stop wondering what to do about your graying hair, once and for all…

“you never ever have to go back to being unhappy with your aging appearance or feeling less than anybody else ever again”

FIRST . . .

Let me give you a sample of what you will find inside this eBook…

You Are Seconds Away From Looking Younger & Feeling More Confident . . .

The bottom line – it works!

*FREE* BONUS BOOKS With Your Order!

If you purchase “Reversing the Gray” before , you’ll receive 4 bonus books (Retail Value: $99.80) – Yours Free with This time-limited offer!

Bonus Book #1 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The World’s Simplest Guide to Hairloss” A 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss. A collection of the latest thinking on hair loss and how to prevent it. It’s a must read for men and women who are serious about preventing hair loss.

Bonus Book #2 (a $29.95 retail value)

“Sit Back, Relax, and Say Goodbye to Stress” Find out how to recognize stress before it takes a serious toll on your life. Included are techniques to relieving stress and anxiety. Stress CAN have an impact on the color of your hair.

Bonus Book #3 (a $9.95 retail value)

“Style Tips for Men and Women” Just what the title says. A compendium of 15 fashion tips for men and 10 essential fashion tips for women. It’s a must read for the fashion “Dufus” (like me).

Bonus Book #4 (a $29.95 retail value)

“The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook” Incredibly useful complete guide to how coconut oil can benefit not only your hair, but also your skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart. Some of the best kept secrects on this “superfood” are in this eBook.

But wait, here’s the clincher….

60-Day 100% Moneyback Guarantee. We are so excited and so sure you will look and feel better after trying the remedies in “Reversing the Gray”that we will give you 100% of your money back if you are not satisfied for ANY reason, even 2 months after your purchase. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You’ll spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

If you want a formula that actually works, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Copy of Reversing the Gray™

Rated:

4 / 5 based on 14 customer reviews

Product description:

The Secret Remedy for Reversing Gray Hair Naturally

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

In stock

I understand I am purchasing state of the art e-books that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book immediately after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following FOUR BONUSES worth a total of $99.80 absolutely FREE…..

The World’s Simplest Guide to Hair Loss ($29.95 value)- 49 page guide on the Causes, medical treatment, and Natural Remedies for hair loss.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress ($29.95 Value)- Insider tips on how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! The truth staying in good mental health.

Style Tips for Men and Women ($9.95 value)- 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

The Complete Coconut Oil Handbook ($29.95 value)-Complete guide to how to use coconut oil to benefit your hair, skin, weight, immune system, digestion, and heart

I also understand my purchase today will be backed by a 100% risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: If after trying the techniques in Reversing the Gray, I am not looking more youthful and confident – I will receive a full refund of the purchase price

100% Secure No-Risk Order:

The proof is in customer results! Here are actual testimonials from folks just like you that are currently benefitting from the techniques found only in Reversing the Gray

Success Story

So glad I found your site. I’m beyond satisfied with the results I’ve noticed since trying out your program. Friends who I never thought would notice have made comments on how good and healthy my hair looks…

Michael S. Seattle, WA

Success Story

Thank you for writing such an easy to read book about how to combat graying hair. I am very happy with the results I have noticed in just over a month using your program. Finally, a program that actually works for a change…

Shelly Tobias Denver, CO

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Once you start noticing your new and improved look, your confidence will shoot through the roof!

Success Story

Joseph,

I finally finished reading the e-book. I am happy to say that I learned quite a few new things that I hope to put into practice to enhance my appearance, my health and my overall wellbeing . I look forward to continued results.

Tony Pensacola, FL

If you’re not completely satisfied with what you see when you look in the mirror – you NEED this information!

Success Story

Dear Joseph,

I have to say I am so glad I found this e-book. Reversing my gray hair took a bit longer than usual, but when I finally started seeing results, I was ecstatic. I also really like your manual on Stress reducing techniques. I use them on a regular basis! I look forward to meeting you in person to give you hug!

Sean N. New York, NY

Success Story

This book was extremely helpful. Reversing the Gray, is an honest, heartfelt guide that addresses many concerns that we gen x’ers have about our hair color. I can honestly say that this is the only book of its kind. I saw my few gray hairs fill in with my previous color at around the two month mark

Thanks!

Monique P Knoxville, TN

Success Story

This was the best money I ever spent on myself. I read all of the reviews, but until I tried it for myself, I was a non-believer. Well, I’m on the bandwagon now! My hair looks darker, fuller, and healthier. I’ve seen my gray hair be cut in half and look forward to more results.

Jake Birmingham, UK

Success Story

Dear Miracle Worker,

I just wanted you to know that since I started reading “Reversing the Gray” program, I really do feel more confident when I go out. Just knowing I’m taking the time to look my best really does make a difference. I surprised myself with the astounding results. Thanks.

Sean Dallas, TX

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But wait, there’s even more….

You have nothing to lose. We are so excited and so sure you will look better after trying the techniques in “Reversing the Gray” that we are offering a 100% money back guarantee. No questions asked!

Go ahead and give it a try. You spend 3 times the cost on one session in a salon

You CAN’T Lose – 100% Money Back Guarantee!

We’ve kept the price extremely low so that anyone can afford to find out this valuable information.

If you want results that last a lifetime, Reversing the Gray™ is for you!

Claim YOUR Ebook Copy of Reversing the Gray™

YES Joseph! Count me in:

I’m taking advantage of your Limited Time Special Offer and understand I will immediately save off the original $59 price, making my order today only $27!

I understand I am purchasing an e-book that will be delivered electronically over the Internet. I will be provided with access to download the e-book less than 5 minutes after my purchase.

I also understand that if I order before I will be receiving the following two bonuses worth a total of $39.90.

Sit Back, Relax and say Goodbye to Stress – Find out how to stay stress free for the rest of your life! This cutting edge information is a MUST for anyone who wants to know the truth about staying in good mental health.

Fashion Tips for Men and Women – 15 essential tips for a man and 10 essential tips for a woman. These are in our opinion the best tips around.

I also understand my purchase today will be backed 100% by the following better than risk-free 60 day money back guarantee: “If after sincerely giving the techniques found within Reversing the Gray™ a try, and do not find your hair returning to its youthful appearance – I will give you a full refund of the purchase price – and you can take 60 days to decide.”

Order Your Copy Today:

Click on the button below to process your order online with our safe and secure merchant, Clickbank. There are three ordering options: 1) Pay with a Credit Card, 2) Checking Account, or 3) Paypal Account.

Thanks to my immediate download feature, you can find out ALL the valuable information on how to look your best and gain the expert advice in Reversing the Gray™ in just seconds from now!

Get Your Copy Now!