#wyll deserves better

[monsterlimbs]

I think whoever wrote the responses to Wyll actually fucking hated him with a burning passion because he'll say "I will be severely punished come nightfall" and all of the responses are "GOOD you deserve it and also I hope your dad hates you and also? I hope you never get laid ever again and you're in a permanent state of worry" after he's been nothing but nice to you.

Every conversation is like

"My father and I... we really didn't have a good relationship. When I was young, I tried so hard to live up to the expectations he set for me. But in the end, it wasn't enough. ...I wasn't enough. He abandoned me when I took on a devilish patron to save the city he so cherished."

1) GOOD.

2) Lol. Skill issue.

3) Kill yourself.

"I've caused every illness in the world I think actually, when I only saved 79 out of the 80 children in need."

1) Yeah. You definitely did.

2) That child suffered because of you. What was one more child saved? Come on. You could've saved ONE more child.

3) You monster. How could you abandon that child?

"I think I deserve everything coming to me.... I try to do everything right but it's never enough. Even my father didn't think I was a child worth loving. But I suppose that's what happens, when you live a life like mine. If my pain is what is needed to relieve others, I will serve without complaint, I swear on my heart and soul."

NO FUCKING RESPONSES AVAILABLE. Why can't I comfort him when he talks to me? Anytime he says something sad, you can either make fun of him, brush him off, or wish eternal suffering on his bloodline. Or when he's like "I deserve all this pain" you just have to say "Onto other matters." or LEAVE. And he so sweetly goes "Understood. These matters are a bit... difficult to hear about. I'm so sorry I burdened you with my history." AHHHHHH

Or when he says something like

"When I was young, the frontiers called and forced me into a line of duty. I'd have it no other way, I live to serve the people and protect the weak." and the responses are

1) Lol nerd.

2) [Durge] I bet I can kill them faster than you can save them

3) I bet the children cry when they see your horrible face.

4) You are so fucking cringe. Did you know that? You talk like a damn book. Get a fucking life.

[gameguy20100]

Say what you like about Veilguard. At least Davrin got an even amount of focus and importance in the plot. More than you can say for Wyll.

And I think this is a valid comparison because they're so similar. Both the "Knight in shining armour" archetype, both monster hunters, both of them approve of "good" acts and disaprove of "evil" ones.

Oh, and they're both the only black companions in their respective games.

Except Davrin gets his own questline, a satisfying character arc, and fully developed romance.

Whereas Wyll gets, a half arsed questline that's more about the Emperor than him, is the only companion without a sex scene. (Seriously, Mizora gets one but not him?! The fuck?!) And Larian has on several occasions ignored him in favour of more Astarion content.

So, thanks Bioware. Thanks for NOT giving the black man the short end of the stick. Here's your mediocre trophy. It's sad how you're still noteworthy for this. 🏆

[churchofsnails]

was playing bg3 and noticed that there’s yet another fuck up with wyll’s greeting line 💀 now instead of well met i’m being talked to like he hates me 😭😭 he deserves so much better i’m so sorry my beautiful king 💔

[gewhanaa]

Somewhere in the hellscape of my consciousness, there is an analysis on Wyll's complex issues with his father and why the ending he gets when they reunite is unsatisfying.

One day I'll write it out properly but for now I'll leave it at this.

Sometimes, character growth looks like learning to be selfish. Being overwhelmingly altruistic and forgiving is not healthy and not necessarily "good"

[skullywullypully]

I'm a bit confused about why Counsellor Florrick Mizora's word (a literal devil) over Wyll's?

[wildskissed]

Spoilery rant under the cut:

So, The Emperor gets a whole 10 minute intimate/sex scene, and Wyll seems to get...nothing?!?

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the Emperor's scene, and I'm more than happy that they gave us Halsin (I was one of the people that was asking for him during Early Access) but like...could they not have added that stuff in for us and given us Minthara as well because we asked, AFTER they had worked on Wyll? Where is his stuff? Why does he feel like such an after thought?

Gale was always going to be my main squeeze because I attach to game characters quick, but I always thought I'd get to go through multiple runs and see what everyone's stories were. The more I see, I feel like Wyll got sidelined in his own game, while the other characters that they added in after the fact, have gotten way more attention, and it's just sad. If anyone wants to prove me wrong, so be it, but all I see is a whole lot of DISAPPOINTMENT.

#JusticeForWyll

[gewhanaa]

See, I'll never get this scene because Wyll might forgive him, but I DO NOT. Over my dead body is Wyll giving up his SOUL for this useless mfer.

Ulder is bad at being duke and bad at being a father. At 17 Wyll was already more mature and better at helping people than Ulder will ever be

Baldur's Gate 3 - Wyllvember Day 7 - Father

[biromanticacemess]

kinda dissapointed with patch 6 so I'm just gonna play the mass effect trilogy again

[girls-with-boys-names]

I stayed up to an ungodly hour finishing this BG3/Robin Hood animatic so hope y’all enjoy ✨

[aureoboros]

wyll in a flowy shirt: the sequel

[loudlittleecho]

“[Wyll’s] supposed to be one of the main characters, a fucking origin character”!!!

honestly i think it was a mistake to add halsin and minthara to the companion pool bc like.... if your main characters are lacking in personality and story, there is absolutely no reason to pile on more work and add more characters who don't add anything. and seeing how they both barely have any content or are bugged, it was a complete waste to prioritize them over wyll.

there's better posts out there going into detail, I'm just venting here, but overall wyll could've been so important to the main plot. he's the goddamn son of the duke of baldur's gate. he's literally connected to the city we're trying to save (or destroy).... like how is it that even the emperor has more depth than wyll's story? even during his quest in wyrmway, it just happens to be about the emperor and wyll is treated as a side character. he's supposed to be one of the main characters, a fucking origin character, and yet he's treated like an inconsequential hireling by the devs throughout the entire game (and dont get me started on people/the devs downplaying his trauma... but no one makes jokes about ast*rions trauma. very professional).

I would much rather have a few fleshed out companions than a massive pool of lifeless bethesda npcs. hell, I'd sacrifice all romance if it meant the main characters were actually well developed. and as much as I enjoy the side companions, I swear it even feels like minsc and jaheira have more involvement in the main story than wyll does. it's just not a good look and it's so frustrating that this keeps happening. I need devs to grow a spine and commit to their work, because if you don't care enough about a character to give it your all, then don't even bother trying. people can tell when media is half-assed. wyll deserved better.

[syundae]

i’ve seen posts about astarion and gale in cowboy hats, but no one mentions cowboy wyll, who objectively looks the best

[gameguy20100]

The fact Gale and Wyll get more hate for info dumping, and trying to save people by selling his soul to a devil than Astarion gets for abducting children and laughing about it makes me genuinely angry.

The hells is wrong with people?

[sauronpilled]

the people princess.

[fihyn]

listen. wyll is good. wyll is earnestly and deliberately good. and I think people are inclined to think he’s somehow boring because he doesn’t appear to struggle to remain good in his heart despite everything that’s thrown at him. and I understand that internal conflict can often be what is most compelling in a character.

but I think the conflict in wyll is just more complex and maybe people aren’t looking closely enough to understand it. I really, honestly believe that being so earnestly good is wyll’s coping mechanism for the horrors rather than something that wars with those horrors within him. like a faith you fall back on again and again because without community or comfort or any other form of support, eventually all you have to hold onto is a desperate prayer. wyll clings to what is “good” and “right” (and sometimes “traditional”) because it is all he feels he has.

he talks a lot about his certainty. he speaks in a very assured and composed way about his ideals and his beliefs in true goodness and heroics. and I do believe he himself has just a depthlessly good heart. but. But. I do think there is some notable repetition in how often he revisits the same ideals if there’s someone around to listen. this repetition, to me, hints at some underlying doubts (NOT doubts about if goodness is worth it or not, just some simmering awareness that the systems that taught him goodness may not be infallible), not to mention an almost frightening martyrdom when it comes to himself.

and. AND. when wyll is struggling the most with these doubts, he turns to classical stories and traditional fables to comfort himself. he molds himself after the qualities of the heroes in his stories and takes very little time to consider what he wants within himself or who he might be outside of those stories. who among us hasn’t turned to fiction for comfort and guidance, when we have so little understanding from other people that we have nowhere else to turn? who of us - maybe especially when we were children - molded ourselves to be just like our favorite characters because we felt inherently unworthy to be ourselves? this is such a deeply compelling aspect of wyll’s character to me.

(quick note that I understand that he does sometimes do what he wants to pursue his own happiness - he is truly the biggest dork ever and loves being The Blade - but this still partially suffers from being what he wants within the framework that he feels he’s even allowed to have wants inside of.)

I think a lot of people think it is ridiculous or even foolish for him to not be angry with his dad. but I believe in the wake of what happened, wyll couldn’t bear to be angry with his dad, because it would mean giving up on the idea that his father is adhering to what is “good.” he’s willing to accept that his father is flawed or misguided in sending him away, but I don’t think he ever allowed himself to think on the reverse, to wonder, “why couldn’t he believe that I was good too? even if I did something that to his eyes, looked like it might have been bad?” because it was too painful to imagine his father as less than good. because wyll learned his ideals of being good from his father - and it is too much for him to let that be threatened. thus the pattern begins - even if it is painful, even if it hurts wyll deeply, it is better to stick to your ideals above all else because it’s just not tenable to give up being good. 

and he clearly does not think this way in regards to anyone else other than himself. he accepts people like vampire astarion and sharran shadowheart and militaristic lae’zel as his friends because he’s willing to give everyone a chance other than himself. everyone else in the world deserves the opportunity to live and thrive and see who they’re meant to be and it’s wrong to cast them out or harm them on the basis that their existence goes against some pre-established ideal… but not wyll. wyll’s wellbeing and happiness never comes above the greater good. he believes that so deeply. listen no one has ever loved this man for who he is beneath the heroics and it hurts but he believes that.

wyll not getting his own choice (apart from the player character’s ideas) in the act 3 mizora scene is frustrating, but maybe. maybe it hints at him feeling completely lost - coming up against this brick wall of a choice that either forces him to once again turn away from his father’s ideals to work with a devil to save that which he loves most (repeat what drove him away from his beloved father years ago) OR. face the idea that all this pain he’s feeling in regards to (seemingly) giving up his father in order to be “good” is something that maybe his father should have shown for wyll as well. ulder ravengard didn’t even appear to be conflicted in sending wyll away, and wyll is facing this terrible choice, possibly for the very first time letting himself wonder if his father was really as matter-of-fact about it as it felt from wyll’s perspective. maybe that’s why he doesn’t choose for himself. 

in any case, I do think we lost something as a natural consequence of having wyll’s character arc rewritten so late in development because it would have been REALLY rewarding to see some more act 3 wyll character arc in the form of “sometimes hard moral choices can’t always be solved just by sacrificing yourself” because I would have loved dearly to see him both come to realize he’s worth fighting for too, and that sometimes there isn’t an obvious “good” answer. not that I think wyll is naive, but I do think he’s come to associate “difficult” choices with the idea that “one of these choices will be painful for me but it’s more important to strive to be good than to strive to be happy” and has grappled less with “none of these choices feel right or good but I still have to make a choice.” 

as a final note I do believe ulder ravengard loves wyll but he is deeply flawed in his relationship to him. he does the exact same thing - wyll learned it from him - “what is ‘good’ and ‘right’ must be followed above all else even if it is deeply painful for me.” and I do believe sending wyll away was deeply painful for him. but he wasn’t even willing to show hesitation, and wyll learned that from him too. wyll never sounds like he’s even questioning his ideals, because his father never did, never showed wyll it was okay to struggle with them. not even when it was wyll himself on the line. also, due to his position as duke, ulder has naturally had to align his ideals with general civilian law, instead of doing what many of us would (what wyll does, when he’s out on his own), and understanding a certain loyalty to your own is maybe more important than perfect righteousness. 

[vitanithepure]

Tagging with spoilers just to be sure, but this is just a general thought. Nothing the companions don't tell you early into our relationships.

But like do you guys ever just stop and think how totally messed up and traumatized they all are? Like the Absolute just broke into a mental institute, stole the records of all the patients and decided "yeah, we need them as True Souls, they're perfect!".

And on top of all that, they get tadpoles, witness horrors beyond everything they ever experienced, get thrown into a crazy cult's plot to obliterate the Sword Coast and they are expected to function?

Like, I sometimes struggle to get out of bed in the morning. How do they cope with all this? It's baffling!

Putting the companion details under the cut.

We have Lae'zel, indoctrinated since she hatched from an egg and started to strangle others for the glory of her lich queen.

Shadowheart, taken advantage of, with her wiped memory and sent on a "don't ask any questions" mission by her goddess and her cult.

Karlach, betrayed and forced to fight in the bloodies and most vicious war this world knows. Her heart stolen, and with it her ability to even touch other people.

Wyll, who sacrificed a part of himself to save a whole city and, in return, was estranged with his family based on a deception.

Gale, groomed and tossed aside, and all he has left from it is a death sentence.

And Astarion, an asshole, turned into a monster by another asshole, with 200 years worth of abuse?

And while some of them did slip up, the resulting trauma they were served was in no way justified. I want to strangle each person that made them miserable.

And this seems to be the crux of all their stories. They all had this one bastard that made them the way they are and are *not* dealing with it the right way because how can they with all the other shit going on?