#will never stop being flattered that people enjoy the metas bc they always feel WILDLY indulgent to me 😅

[sparring-spirals]

I've missed your critrole meta sparring it's been a while (it's been a whiiiiile). hope you're doing well!

Heard it perfectly. and thank you very much, thats very nice of you! ive missed keeping up and writing meta/shitposts :D im doing alright- hope you are too! Mostly wildly busy, and as much as i love CR, trying to catch up can feel like sprinting on an unfriendly treadmill sometimes, even when i have the spare time. and sadly. i do not, currently.

(but! no worries! vibes-based meta, my favorite kind to write, does NOT necessarily require a strong grasp of "plot" or "context". so we get all the fun of dramatic meta with slightly less time commitment.)

[iamanartichoke]

What do you think Loki would think of Kilgrave (from the tv series)? Would Loki be immune to his powers? How could Loki cheat and defeat Kilgrave?

This question has been sitting in my ask box (among others - sorry, anon :/) for probably a couple of months and I think about answering it at least once a week and I haven’t answered it yet bc I have no idea how to express how flaily I am at the idea of Loki encountering Kilgrave (believe it or not, I never thought about it before! Loki teaming up with Jessica, yes, but not crossing paths with Kilgrave.).

I also don’t know how to answer this lmfao, I have no idea. 

Well, I have a lot of ideas, but how accurate and/or in-character they are remains to be seen. .

Idk, buckle up. 

Under the cut bc it’s super long and I’m sure only like three people care about this. 

What do you think Loki would think of Kilgrave (from the tv series)? 

I don’t know if there’s a word that would encompass what Loki would feel toward Kilgrave. I think that there’s a number of things he would think, none of them particularly flattering. I think that the most succinct way to put it would be that Loki would think Kilgrave - basic, is the only thing I can think of. A basic bitch. 

I say that for a number of reasons and it’s not that I think Loki would think Kilgrave isn’t a threat. Kilgrave is evil. Kilgrave is irredeemable evil; there’s no redemption arc, no coming back from the things he’s done. He doesn’t want to come back from the things he’s done. 

It isn’t just that he mind controls people, and it isn’t just that he kills people. It’s the way he feels (or doesn’t feel) about it. 

Kilgrave could be a sociopath. (I don’t know enough about the diagnostic criteria to say that he definitely is, and on tumblr dot com, I feel like I need to disclaim that right off the bat. I’m not armchair diagnosing here.) There’s no empathy in him, no remorse for any of his actions, no inclination to do the right thing. It’s the exact opposite: Kilgrave’s particular brand of villainy is rooted in this purely sadistic need for power over others - quite literally. 

He doesn’t just want his victims to hurt or kill themselves. He wants them to do it as painfully as possible. He wants them to suffer, and he wants them to keep on suffering even after he’s no longer there to enjoy it. 

An example: Kilgrave uses his powers to hustle a ton of money in a poker game, and one of the players confronted him. Kilgrave told him to “see how long it takes to put your head through that post,” and the poor guy goes over and is just slamming his head repeatedly into the post, long after Kilgrave leaves. This is a particularly horrifying aspect of Kilgrave’s ability: the person isn’t freed from the mind-control after Kilgrave is no longer there, and it’s not the kind of mind-control that can be broken with “a really hard hit to the head.” The victims physically and mentally cannot stop doing what he told them to do, either until the thing is complete, or they literally die trying.

It’s brutal and perverse. But it’s significant to note that Kilgrave doesn’t hurt/kill everyone he mind controls. Whether or not he decides to make someone suffer seems to depend on 1) how useful they can be to him, and 2) whether he feels like it or not. There’s little rhyme or reason. He will mind control someone to give him their cell phone, mind control a second person to throw a cup of scalding coffee in their face, and mind control a third person to cut their own hands off, and all three of these things seem to be the same to him. He doesn’t see making someone cut off their own hands any worse than making someone give up their cell phone. He’s not any more horrified by it, and he doesn’t even think about it long enough to attempt to feel any real remorse. 

In this manner, Kilgrave mind controls, torments, kidnaps, rapes, maims, and kills his victims and doesn’t give it a second thought. He forgets them forever once he’s done with them. (What makes Jessica the exception is a whole other meta.) He’s motivated by the feeling that having power and control over other human beings gives him. He’s motivated by feeling invincible, and will do whatever he can to maintain that sense of invincibility. 

These things make Kilgrave terrifying as a villain, both to his victims as well as to the audience. What makes him a particularly formidable villain for the series is that Jessica is literally the only one who can stop him. He loses his ability to control her, and she’s strong enough to take him down. She’s the only real threat to him. When one is surrounded by regular human beings who are completely helpless to this brand of mind control, it raises the stakes and frames him as a villain you are going to be scared of. Ymmv, but I mean, I certainly wouldn’t want to cross paths with Kilgrave on the street. 

So why is he a basic bitch? 

Loki may consider all of these things, and he may further be mildly horrified if he actually saw what Kilgave does to some of his victims (’mildly’ because we don’t know what Loki’s threshold is; who knows what kind of Fucked Up Shit he’s seen by now), and he would conclude that while Kilgrave is certainly a threat in his own, human context, there’s nothing about him that differentiates him from any other would-be villain out there. There’s nothing compelling about him; there’s nothing that sets him apart. His powers are the only thing that make him significantly more threatening than any other human serial killer who kidnaps, rapes, and kills for no reason other than that sheer need for power and control over a victim. 

I mean, Loki’s opinion of the humans is pretty low to start with. When Thor says, “you consider yourself above them,” and Loki is like, “um yes?” - I don’t believe that’s a response that had anything to do with the scepter’s influence and everything to do with the culture in which he and Thor were raised. Odin compares Jane being on Asgard to a goat being at a banquet table. The W4 mention “throwing around a little lightning and they see us as gods” (paraphrase). Loki grew up in a world that is both physically and scientifically millenia beyond humanity, and as a prince besides (which grants him a level of privilege above even other Asgardians). It’s only natural, I think, that he would see the humans as lesser-than his own people. 

If Loki encountered Ted Bundy on the street, he’d not be overly impressed. Likewise, Kilgrave is not overly impressive to him. In the most general “here’s my reaction,” sense, Loki thinks that Kilgrave is what we would call a basic bitch. It’s similar to how he used his last breath to tell Thanos, “You’ll never be a god.” The implication being, you may have power, and you may be frightening, but there is nothing about you that is truly remarkable and there never will be, no matter how hard you try. 

That all said, if we dig a little deeper, I think that Kilgrave would give Loki a lot to think about, in a way? Kilgrave suffered through medical experimentation in order to get his powers, and Loki isn’t a stranger to torture. And I think that, in a comparative sense, Loki would be somewhat reassured at the fact that he finds Kilgrave’s actions appalling. Even going through whatever torture Loki went through, he didn’t turn out like Kilgrave. Kilgrave does things that Loki would never do. (The mind control aside, but to be fair, it wasn’t entirely Loki’s choice to do that.) 

Loki doesn’t enjoy violence just for the sake of it. He takes no pleasure in hurting or killing anyone and, in fact, seemed kind of repelled by it (does anyone else notice how Loki rarely looks at his foe when doing the violent thing?). Loki would never kidnap or rape anyone, and certainly not just to feel power over another person. He would never inflict torture, either. 

I say this fairly confidently because the consistent thing about all the misdeeds Loki has done is that they’re internally motivated. Loki’s desire for power isn’t rooted in the need to victimize others; it’s rooted in this deep-seated self-loathing that has him convinced that power - not just any power, but the power to be a king - is the only way he will ever have any worth. 

He never wanted to rule Asgard. I don’t believe he wanted to rule Midgard, either. It’s like Loki is seeking the illusion of power more than the actual power itself. He wants the worthiness and the validation; he wants to be taken seriously. He wants his own abilities, specifically his magic, to be revered as any other warrior’s skill. He just wants to be seen. 

So I think on some level that Loki, when confronted with bone-deep, unapologetic, irredeemable villainy (for lack of a better word) would think, I could have been worse. Thank the norns I’m not worse. 

Again, I may be completely off-base or wildly out of character - idk, I revised this like 12 times. But this is just my idea of what Loki would think of Kilgrave and I hope, if nothing else, it was interesting to read. 

Would Loki be immune to his powers? 

Yes. This is another thing that contributes to how Loki sees Kilgrave; his powers aren’t a threat to him personally. This is because Kilgrave’s ability is a virus. 

According to Kilgrave’s Wikia: 

Kilgrave’s abilities are due to “a virus that he emits through microparticles in the air. His power was revealed to be a side-effect of the viral treatment used to cure his childhood degenerative disease. His ability is always active as he cannot stop his body from producing the virus and anyone within his immediate proximity is affected” (Source). 

Now, I’m no scientist, but my takeaway from this is that, because Kilgrave’s powers are literally a virus, and said viruses (viri?) have this effect on the humans around him, someone with alien biological insides (Asgardian or Jotun, for that matter) would likely not be affected in the same way, if at all. 

It’s like how ebola or HIV (or covid, ugh), is potentially deadly to humans because of the way our cells respond to the virus cells. Someone who isn’t human wouldn’t have that same response. Of course, it’s entirely possible that a different effect could occur, or even possibly the virus could affect an alien but the reaction wouldn’t be as strong or overpowering. There’s no way to know for sure but, my limited understanding of science-y things leads me to believe that Kilgrave’s ability would be useless on anyone who wasn’t human.  (As a matter of fact, I think that it’s revealed that Jessica was able to break free from the control because she’s enhanced and her biology is different, but I’d have to watch those episodes again.) 

How could Loki cheat to defeat Kilgrave? 

Considering the above answer, there would be no need for Loki to cheat; Kilgrave’s abilities wouldn’t work on him, which leaves him powerless while Loki maintains his arsenal of magic, along with the whole super-strength thing. Loki would probably just have to hit him a few times to take him out. 

I’m sorry this is so long, but I really appreciate the question! Thank you! I hope that this was a decent answer overall.