#which is partly bc hester and parks were so solid and consistent that whole time vs the outsiders artists who... 😬

[cleromancy]

the specific flavor of roydick when they were queercoded, or at least--i mean theres *at least* a *strong* argument that they are, starting around... maybe devins arsenal mini through titans 99, but *definitely* outsiders all the way through roy leaving the team. but like, they're simultaneously queercoded and maintaining that very late 90s/early to mid aughts-specific heteronormativity yk. a swell couple in an erotic butch and sundance kind of way

(and i mean we do know devin in particular was writing with bi dickie in mind, shes gone on record on that, but like specifically roy and dick in relation to each other...)

and im just. thinking about this because in my beloved The Cheshire Contract in the *80s* they are not actually queercoded, the homoeroticism was just. two bros gettin naked in the same hotel room, being touchy feely bros hetero style... idk man theyre really affectionate with each other in it! but then by the time graduation day rolls around you can't even picture them that comfortable touching each other despite like. still being written as... i mean they're close, you know? *close.*

but they don't touch anymore.

and like thinking about. by contrast. my beloved outsiders #11 where. dkdkckflf. god. grace's famous you boys would make a swell couple in an erotic butch and sundance kind of way quote, roy cuts her off with a kiss, they have sex, and-- god im sorry please just read outsiders v3 because this issue is. insane. anyway then dick and roy have what *eye* would argue is a sexually charged sparring scene, particularly bc of the way it was juxtaposed with roy and grace. and it ends when dick pulls a fucking gun on roy *as an expression of care.* like explicitly that's why he's doing it. like oh my god! the rituals are so fucking intricate!

and like FIVE ISSUES LATER they have this massive blowout fight and-- fkflflfm.

the point is. the point is. my last reblog was about fictional male intimacy needing violence as a pretext. and i was thinking about the specific flavor of heteronormativity at the time and. weighing in my mind whether my beloved outsiders 11 or my beloved action comics 613-618 feels more intimate. thinking about the heteronormativity flavor of, these two guys can't be physically affectionate bc of it vs the flavor where they *can* be physically affectionate precisely *because* heteronormativity means it wouldn't be gay if they did. and i think its not quite a fair comparison bc i do believe the point of outsiders 11 *was* the intimacy, compared to the cheshire contract where it was an easy comfortable byproduct of their friendship. but, well! there most certainly is violence as a pretext, huh?

much to think about.