#when labyrinth runners came out but all ppl talked about was hunter. made me have a slight disdain for that little white boy ngl

[saturnniidae]

Worst thing ever is when a tv show has a racially diverse cast of main characters, but the fandom favorite is The White One.

[welcometogrouchland]

sorry if I'm bothering you but I FINALLY FIND SOMEONE ELSE WHO PREFERS FTF BUT PURELY BECAUSE OF OUR LOVE FOR WILLOW (we're the only ones right about her) like yeah, it's DEFINITELY not a perfect episode but IT'S ABOUT THE CHARACTERS. and I LOVE TTT TOO BECAUSE OF LUZ but tbh I didn't like being in the fandom when TTT came out because THERE WAS SO MUCH STUFF ABOUT HUNTER, TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE THOUGHT HE SHOULD BE THE MC AND NOT LUZ??? I love my boy but I felt overwhelmed at all of this so him not getting too much in FTF was fine for me :)

Firstly, I'd like to say YES!! FOR THE FUTURE SOLOS!!! LITERALLY SOME OF THE BEST CHARACTER WORK, ART DIRECTION, SOUNDTRACK, BOARDING, HUMOUR AND HORROR IN THE WHOLE SHOW!!!

Secondly I'd like to say that this is SUCH a can of worms that I've held back on talking about for A While™. Tbh it kinda feels like u read my mind I was literally thinking about this this morning.

(BIG ASS RAMBLE UNDER THE CUT. I AM NOT JOKING THIS POST IS SO LONG IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY)

Both episodes are really fucking good, both on their own merit and when you take into account the circumstances under which they were made. I do not want to labour this point. I hate pitting two bad bitches against each other.

I AM however interested in investigating why, when two episodes are of similar quality, but with different priorities and focuses and (for lack of a better word) Vibe™ does the fandom demonstrably prefer one over the other?

Thanks to Them is BIG on plot. It's big on "establish what the kids have been doing, introduce Lore and Mystery, do the possession, fight the bad guy, get back to the demon realm, bada bing bada boom!!". I don't think it's nearly as relentlessly paced as some people think, and I think there are definitely emotional moments to be gleaned out of characters who AREN'T Luz, Hunter or Camilla- but overall it's similar to the most plot focused episodes of season 2. Your knock knock knocking on hootys doors and your hollow minds.

But for the future is a lot more concerned with character. Everyone gets some small moment to shine, though you're correct in saying that the focus is mostly on Luz, Willow and then probably the collector. But Camilla, Gus, Amity, Hunter, King, Eda and Lilith all get more emotional depth in a few lines than like. Willow did in half of thanks to them. even Belos gets more screentime this ep than he did in thanks to them, screentime that's much more illuminating (do love the moments he had in thanks to them but they weren't huge character moments really, just him villain-ing it up).

Less plot stuff happens, if you count the main goal as "get into the titans skull" then that's only introduced about a quarter of the way through the episode, whereas "get back to the human realm" is established as the goal of thanks to them in like. Negative screentime lmao. You basically know it's the goal coming in because you've watched king's tide already. For the future isn't like this!

And I GET IT MAN! checking in on the YouTube progress bar at the 3/4 of the way through elicited pure fear in me! But I feel like the fandoms fear of plots going unresolved and questions going unanswered has created this. Like. Attitude that the episodes need to be completely spartan or they're wasting time.

Like, with bringing back Boscha and Kikimora. Some people consider that a waste of time because they weren't Big Bads in seasons prior, meaning they should be low priority and don't belong here. And ppl are entitled to feel that way!

But I don't think you can call them wasted! Or irrelevant! I think the writers put a lot of work into making their storyline fit with the themes of the show! I have an essay I may never finish in drafts about this but- one of the most popular aspects of seasons 1 and 2 was the whole corrupt government storyline, which reached it's climax in king's tide but still had no resolution, same way hexside had no resolution from what happened after labyrinth runners. The writers combined these storylines by showing how hexside wasn't going to become a mini dictatorship like the isles old system (hence the title of the episode, changing things for the better "for the future"). That's efficient storytelling! Combining two plots into one in order to resolve both at the same time!

But people don't take this as an example of efficiency because it's not Lore or Plot based. And I think that's a real shame.

Both episodes have pacing and balance issues but I don't think one is especially egregious compared to the other? Nor do they have more pacing and balance issues than say, Clouds on the Horizon, which I'd say is one of MY least favouritely paced episodes of the show. Maybe thanks to them just had more novelty factor because of the setting (not to mention it probably benefitted from having one less subplot to juggle, but eh)

And about the fandom response after each episode....yeah. yeah.

I love Hunter. He's my baby. My scrimblo bimblo. He is like my twin brother. Literally. For reasons I cannot begin to explain here, hunter the owl house is like my twin brother.

And in all fairness to the fandom, plenty of people are normal about him. I know this because I've curated my experience to entirely be the people who are normal about him.

But the people who are not normal about him...my god.

Tbh I think this issue of focus actually lands on why I prefer for the future to thanks to them (THOUGH AGAIN. THEY BOTH SLAY)

The ending of thanks to them was so abrupt and emotionally charged that it felt like a betrayal, almost. The show went so hard and so fast that afterwards there was no breathing room and I didn't fully trust the show to be able to pull back afterwards. I thought either Hunter is going to eat up more and more screentime next episode by having to deal with the implications of every that happened five minutes from the episodes end, or they are literally never going to touch on him again. The ending of thanks to them was SO MUCH in so little time that I literally could not fathom a middle road.

Whereas the ending of for the future was a lot more. Aha, eureka! Moment to me. Like "OHH so that's what we're dealing with next episode!!! Nice". There was excitement and yeah, fear that things wouldn't land, but overall there was more trust in me. And of course, they did find a lovely medium between it being the Hunter show and addressing his trauma adequately. His arc was very emotional and satisfying this ep, without the borderline hard-to-enjoy turmoil that the ending of thanks to them put me through lol.

But I think, to some people, the sheer angst of thanks to thems ending was more emotionally rewarding than the well paced stability and slight ominousness of for the future. They felt that episodes end was too "mid". Too soft. The end of the show needs to go all out all the time, so this episode that focused more on emotional arcs and early season callbacks and payoffs is weak.

And to be honest, maybe my analysis here isn't as in-depth or as in-touch with fandom complaints as it could be! I've generally avoided the people harshly criticizing for the future because I like it when fandom is fun. I don't like watching one of my favorite episodes to date get dunked on. But that in and of itself (combined with the leak situation) has led to an inability to really Go All Out with fandom engagement rn. It's a struggle!

I've seen people describe for the future as en episode where Everything happened, and yet nothing happened. I get why! I personally prefer it to thanks to them because I feel like too much happened during that episodes climax to the point where it didn't even feel like the episode had true resolution.

But also, I get that for a lot of people, it's not even about construction. It's just about expectation and preference. People weren't expecting hexside, and when they got it, they got upset. People weren't expecting Willow, and when they got it, they didn't like it. And I get that. Really I do.

But this show is so fuckin wild. It does so much and throws so many curve balls at you. Never the big twists either, always the shit u don't expect. And it's great. I've honestly grown really fond of the way this show pokes me in the ass with something I didn't really expect or consider.

Not everybody is though and like. That's fine. But I do wish sometimes people would just. Kinda. Let it go when something goes in a direction they didn't expect. Because I didn't expect the direction FTF went in at all and I loved it once I stopped to think about it. But that's just me.

I think this is only like. 25% a direct response to things you said in the ask, so to conclude by answering/engaging with your ask point by point:

Willow stans and For the Future stans unite. This is our nation. Also shout-out to the fellow willow understanders I am mutuals with/follow you guys were really keeping us going in the pre for the future times

It's not a perfect episode but circumstances considering, it never could've been, and I'm okay with most of the ways it falls short. I'm also fully willing to hold out and see whether or not watching and dreaming rectifies any of my complaints, considering several of the issues I took with thanks to them were solved this ep, lol

Luz and Camilla literally stole the show in thanks to them and while I understand that the ending of that ep was very hunter centric, hence the hunter centric fandom atmosphere afterwards, I do prefer the environment in fandom rn that's appreciating this mother daughter duo rn

Hunter is not a main character imo. Not because he couldn't be but because his story is rendered infinitely more interesting when he is a supporting character. It's one thing to tell us that Hunter lives for other people and is made to forever be a second- best underling. It's another thing to show us this with his narrative role as the ultimate foil. He Is Better Off This Way. Also this point is dumb but I fully believe Hunter would be miserable as a main character. He does not want this

Also Luz is genuinely one of my favorite main characters in television. Maybe ever. If I start talking about her we'll be here all day. Just look at literally anything sepublic has written about her it's all on point

For the future had the perfect amount of Hunter content tbh. No episode should have more or less. I'm banging my gavel like a judge decreeing this to be so