#what else does he mean by unchaste ?

[idefilarate]

Why Mr. Rochester and Bertha Mason Couldn't Get a Legal Separation; or, the Utter Madness of Marital Laws

So I saw a Jane Eyre post discussing why Mr. Rochester and Bertha Mason couldn't get a legal marital separation. I've thought a lot about this topic, and in order to procrastinate writing the final for my upper-level Brontë class, I've decided to write this sort of convoluted analysis instead. I know many others have written about this subject, but I wanted to explore a bit further on my own.

Preliminary context about me, the Brontës, their Byronic inspiration, etc.: I've learned a lot about 19th century British marriage laws recently in my classes on old British literature, as well as by having studied Byron, whose marital separation in 1816 was a notorious part of his history & also reverberated through 19c literature. He refers to this separation in many of his works, most famously in his notorious poem "Fare Thee Well." Harriet Beecher Stowe, the most famous American female writer at the time, was friends with Lady Byron and wrote a book defending her called "Lady Byron Vindicated: A history of the Byron controversy from its beginning in 1816 to the present time" (the original callout post).

Insanity accusations did factor in to Byron's separation. Many scholars have remarked how the Queens of Byronic Criticism, the Brontë sisters, took significant inspiration from their well-worn copy of Moore's biography Life of Byron when creating their works. The Brontës would have been very familiar with marriage laws not only due to their knowledge of Byron's trainwreck of a marriage, but also due to being well-educated women at the time who knew that marriage was the most important economic decision of one's life and could very well make or break a person. As a result, marriage plays a significant role in their novels.

More relevant preliminary context about the novel: Jane Eyre actually takes place in the Georgian era, despite most adaptations and anaysis presenting is as a Victorian piece due to the novels publication date (this drives me crazy; same goes for the other Brontë books). Marriage laws did not change drastically from the time the novel is set to the time Brontë was writing the novel, but things were a bit different socially. Rochester was also married 15 years before his attempt to marry Jane. According to this very good analysis, Rochester and Bertha probably married in or around the year 1793: https://jane-eyre.guidesite.co.uk/timeline.

Now, here are the reasons why Rochester couldn't separate from Bertha:

1) Insanity wasn't grounds for divorce/separation in the Regency era.

Rochester himself says that he couldn't legally separate from her because of her insanity, which presumably rendered any of her faults null on the grounds of that marital vow "in sickness and in health." This is possibly one of his biggest reasons:

"I was rich enough now – yet poor to hideous indigence: a nature the most gross, impure, depraved I ever saw, was associated with mine, and called by the law and by society a part of me. And I could not rid myself of it by any legal procedings: for the doctors now discovered that my wife was mad — her excesses had prematurely developed the germs of insanity [..]"

2) Divorce was nearly impossible anyway.

There had only been around 300 divorces in English history at the time. Almost all of them were husbands divorcing their wives for committing adultery. Only a handful of divorces had succesfully been obtained by women, and they were only in cases where the husband had committed incestuous adultery or bigamy, and was extremely physically cruel. So technically after his bigamy attempt, Bertha may have had more grounds to obtain a divorce than Rochester would have, if only she were lucid enough to do so. However, in that scenario infertility would have helped their case, and Adèle's existence would have harmed their case if he attempted to seek a divorce before marrying Jane. Though as the novel explains, Adèle is probably not his, she definitely would have been used against him, as would the fact that he kept Bertha's existence a secret in England. But he wouldn't have tried for divorce that late in the game anyway, considering it was one of the most difficult options.

3) Female adultery was your best bet at divorce or separation, and this probably wasn't applicable to Mr. & Mrs. Rochester.

Although some scholars claim that there is subtext hinting that Bertha was adulterous (which some adaptations, like the 2006, include), you needed substantial proof of the adultery, which Rochester may not have had if it did occur. Being a proud man, he also wouldn't have wanted to be humiliated in that way by letting it be publicly known (as shame is one of his main reasons for hiding their marriage to begin with).

However, I lean toward the idea that Bertha may not have committed adultery. If she definitively did, seeing how affected Rochester was by Céline cheating on him (he shot her lover in revenge and left her with a stipend), if he ever suspected adultery on Bertha's part then I'm sure he would have been at court the very next day. I also think Rochester tries not to be too much of a hypocrite, and he is well aware that he himself is an adulterer, so he probably doesn't want to accuse Bertha of a crime he's committed and which he couldn't definitively prove she did.

Rochester does talk about hating Bertha's "vices" when they lived together, citing drinking, arguing, cruelty to servants, cursing, her being "unchaste," a "harlot," etc. - the last epithets, combined with her supposed lack of morality, and her being described as seductive, heavily imply that adultery could be added to her list of offenses. However, if she did truly cheat on him as well, I don't see why he wouldn't plainly tell this to Jane as well. I would imagine it would be his first complaint, and it would probably be considered his most justifiable reason against her by their cultural standards.

I don't see why he wouldn't jump to take Bertha's infidelity as an opportunity to defend his own actions, considering how open he is with Jane about his own adultery and being cheated on by Cèline Varens. While I can see how some of the textual evidence may strongly suggest Bertha's adultery, we cannot be fully certain, and that may be because Rochester himself is not fully certain. I cannot see why he wouldn't have sought legal advice on that account alone.

In short, if Bertha was an adulterer, there must have been no evidence to convict her.

Also: while the double-standard may seem odd and trivial to us, the reason why female adultery held more weight than male adultery has entirely to due with old patriarchal inheritance laws; i.e the risk of a wife getting extramaritally pregnant and passing the illegitimate child off as her husband's heir was considered too great of an affront. A man could have as many bastards as he wanted because he would know they were bastards and were not at risk of inheriting his stuff. One needed legitimate heirs to justify passing on one's ancestral wealth to. Essentially, marriage was a mere economic tool, and the economy was and is inherently patriarchal. I digress.

4) Rochester's lack of social & economic leverage, and risk of social ruin in general.

Only the wealthiest of the wealthy could obtain divorce or official separation, and it often led to social ruin. Rochester is rich, but he has no title and no great network of supporters due to being a younger son and having been abroad for most of the past 15 years (this was the length of his marriage to Bertha, stated by Mr. Briggs during the bigamous wedding attempt). He doesn't have as much leverage as Lord and Lady Byron had.

To continue on official separation, like Lady and Lord Byron obtained. Just like divorce, this was also a messy and scandalous legal proceeding, and required numerous good reasons to obtain, and being well-connected Lords and Ladies really helped your case. You also needed many witnesses and written statements as evidence. Bertha's family, as we see with Mason, would have been unhelpful to Rochester, and due to his shame and secrecy, no one could really testify on his behalf I'm assuming.

5) Unofficial separation would have been inconvenient, especially in regards to living situations.

Aside from divorce, which was extremely rare, extremely controversial, and only for the wealthiest members of society — there were unofficial and official separations. An unofficial separation was simply living apart from one another. I've often wondered why Rochester didn't simply move Grace Poole and Bertha somewhere else, but my main theory is that it would have been cost ineffective, and due to his family who were implied to be shitty, he probably really didn't want to live at Thornfield anyway so thought it would be convenient to place her there. Rochester says it would be dangerous to place her in his other residence of Ferndean:

"[..] though I possess an old house, Ferndean Manor, even more retired and hidden than this, where I could have lodged her safely enough, had not a scruple about the unhealthiness of the situation, in the heart of a wood, made my conscience recoil from the arrangement. Probably those damp walls would soon have eased me of her charge: but to each villain his own vice; and mine is not a tendency to indirect assassination, even of what I most hate."

6) Annulment was likely impossible given their circumstances.

Annulment means evaporating the marriage, acting as if it never existed, that it was a mistake. This was rare and only granted in unique circumstances, and I believe it was more common with aristocracy and royals. I believe you could possibly get an annulment if you could prove that the spouse was insane at the time of the wedding and you did not know. However, Bertha did not begin to truly deteriorate until after they had been living together for a bit. And while Rochester says that he did not know her mother was in an asylum until after the wedding, having an insane mother doesn't mean that you are insane, which Bertha clearly wasn't at that point, at least not in a way that people would have publicly acknowledged, since Rochester says she attended parties and her hand was highly sought after.

Generally, the longer a marriage had gone on, the harder it was to prove why it could not go on. Rochester says that he and Bertha "lived together" for "four years" in Jamaica while her condition deteriorated and he tried to make things work. And again, after the wedding he found out her mother was "mad, and shut up in a lunatic asylum." So we have more reasons for Rochester's difficulty: the fear of Bertha going to an asylum while she was still mostly lucid in those first four years, combined with the fact that they openly lived together and certainly must have consummated their marriage (things which would further prevent annulment), and were certainly publicly recognized as a couple in Spanish Town society, and her family wanting the marriage to continue so she could have children of "good race" i.e. to produce heirs.

Here's an important passage that to me suggests that Rochester and Bertha not only had an initial flirtation but likely consummated their marriage, likely had a passionate sexual relationship for some time, and likely implies his feelings for her were more complex than we'd initially assume, making annulment not so clear-cut of an option to him at the time:

"My father said nothing about her money; but he told me Miss Mason was the boast of Spanish Town for her beauty: and this was no lie. I found her a fine woman, in the style of Blanche Ingram; tall, dark, and majestic. Her family wished to secure me because I was of a good race; and so did she. They showed her to me in parties, splendidly dressed. I seldom saw her alone, and had very little private conversation with her. She flattered me, and lavishly displayed for my pleasure her charms and accomplishments. All the men in her circle seemed to admire her and envy me. I was dazzled, stimulated: my senses were excited; and being ignorant, raw, and inexperienced, I thought I loved her. There is no folly so besotted that the idiotic rivalries of society, the prurience, the rashness, the blindness of youth, will not hurry a man to its commission. Her relatives encouraged me; competitors piqued me; she allured me: a marriage was achieved almost before I knew where I was. Oh, I have no respect for myself when I think of that act! — an agony of inward contempt masters me. I never loved, I never esteemed, I did not even know her."

7) Spousal abandonment wasn't possible, and on some level he honored his legal and financial obligations to her and the Mason family.

Bertha's family likely refused to house her for legal and personal reasons, and spousal abandonment was forbidden due to the husband's financial responsibility as well as the law of coverture (a wife became her husband's full legal responsibility; some say "property"). Like we see in Anne's Tenant of Wildfell Hall, if a woman ran away from their spouse they would have to live in obscurity and be at risk of being sussed out. You couldn't just abandon your partner. Still, people did, because it was the easiest route to take.

But the more upper-class you were, and the more financial entanglements you had, the more inconvenient this was. We know that Rochester and his family became enmeshed with the Mason family, and he got a lot of money from Bertha, so her father likely would have taken him to court. At any rate, Rochester was legally bound to bring Bertha with him to England when he left Jamaica. If he attempted to abandon her in Jamaica, the backlash it would have brought would have brought him social ruin and foiled his chances at getting away with any bigamy attempts.

All this brings us to a further notice of Bertha's family situation. Based on Charlotte Brontë's positive comments about Rochester's character (https://www.tumblr.com/burningvelvet/731403104856195072/in-a-letter-to-w-s-williams-14-august-1848) I see no reason to suspect him, like many feminist critics do, of being an unreliable narrator or of lying about Bertha Mason's history. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and in mine, that is simply not the novel Charlotte wrote. By her own admission, she wanted his narrative to be a path to further goodness.

It makes no narrative sense for our explanation of his and Bertha's history to be full of lies when he's trying to make ammends with Jane, who never suspects him of lying during his admission, but who does critique him and figure he'd tire of her like she was one of his many mistresses. Jane wonders if Rochester would lock her in an attic too, which he refutes on the basis that he loves her more than he loved Bertha when she was sane, and so he would care for Jane himself. Jane also tells him that it's not Bertha's fault that she's mad. So in my opinion, if Charlotte wanted us to believe Rochester was lying about his and Bertha's history to make himself look better or Bertha look worse, I don't see why she would have been vague about it, and I don't see why Jane wouldn't have called it out like she does everything else. I don't think Rochester is really a villain who locked his harmless wife in the attic for giggles; I think he weighed most of his options and found, like most people back then and even today, that keeping his problems locked up and ignored was the best solution.

Now, on with the point. I have often wondered why Rochester didn't simply "unofficially separate" from Bertha by leaving her with her family when he left. Why did he take her to England? Why didn't he just run away? It wasn't because he was an evil villain who wanted to keep her as a trophy. It's because 1) I don't think her father would have let him, as he was so quick to marry her off, 2) he felt obligated to her, and 3) it was criminal for men to abandon their wives, and it would have attracted publicity, which is what Rochester was avoiding by taking Bertha to England and sheltering her in secrecy.

Many claim that Rochester's adultery is a betrayal of his wife; and while religiously, narratively, socially, we can accept this statement, it was not legally a crime. While Rochester does honor his financial and legal obligations to his wife and her family, he does not take the religious part of the vows into account, and that's why he's cosmically punished and only rewarded after he repents, as he explains toward the end of the novel.

Another interesting point is that when Rochester recounts his decision to move back to England, he tells us that Bertha had already been declared insane in Jamaica and that she was already confined there (presumably around the 4 year anniversary before they left), meaning her father probably knew about confinement:

"One night I had been awakened by her yells (since the medical men had pronounced her mad, she had of course been shut up) — it was a fiery West Indian night; [..]"

Locking away "insane" people was standard procedure then, and if this was done with Bertha's father's knowledge, considering he locked his own wife away in an asylum, then this further absolves Rochester of a lot of the blame in my opinion. It more than likely wasn't his idea to lock her away, but the advice of "the medical men" and presumably her father's consultation as well.

8) Even if he divorced or separated from her, he couldn't remarry. Attempting these, or getting caught attempting abandonment, would have brought negative publicity that would have likely prevented the success of any future bigamy attempts. To him, secrecy and bigamy seemed better chances at securing happiness than the social ruin and likely failure the other options would have brought him.

Aside from Rochester's own explanation (which I supplied in #2 re: the separation veto inherent to Bertha's insanity), the other biggest reason as to why Rochester wouldn't seek a separation/divorce even if she hadn't been declared insane and even if he were willing to accuse her of adultery truthfully or not, is due to the fact that one could not legally remarry upon separation or divorce (unless you were Henry VIII and got God's permission lol). Rochester's impossible dream is that he wants to be married to someone he really loves, and if secrecy and bigamy are his only options then he is willing to succumb; this is shown in numerous passages:

"[..] I could reform — I have strength yet for that — if— but where is the use of thinking of it, hampered, burdened, cursed as I am? Besides, since happiness is irrevocably denied me, I have a right to get pleasure out of life: and I will get it, cost what it may."

"I will keep my word: I will break obstacles to happiness, to goodness — yes, goodness; I wish to be a better man than I have been; than I am — as Job's leviathan broke the spear, the dart, and the habergeon, hinderances which others count as iron and brass, I will esteem but straw and rotten wood."

"Is there not love in my heart, and constancy in my resolves? It will expiate at God's tribunal. I know my Maker sanctions what I do. For the world's judgment — I wash my hands thereof. For man's opinion — I defy it."

Closing remarks on the above's validity: I can't cite all my sources because a lot of this stuff I learned from lectures via my professor who specializes in 19th century English literature & history. But here's some recently published information from a historian, taken from "Inside the World of Bridgerton: True Stories of Regency High Society" by Catherine Curzon (2023):

"And if you were one of the newly-weds, you really did hope things would work out, because in the Regency till death do us part wasn't just an expression. As the Prince Regent himself had learned when he separated from his wife within eighteen months of their marriage, obtaining a divorce in Regency England was no easy matter. He never achieved it, and for those who did the stakes could be high and the cost ruinous in every sense."

"Until the passing of the Matrimonial Causes Act of 1857, which legalized divorce in the civil courts, it was governed by the ecclesiastical courts, and the Church didn't end a marriage without very, very good reason. Even these divorces didn't allow a couple to remarry, though, and they were more akin to what we would today call a legal separation, with no shared legal or financial responsibilities going forward. It was freedom, but only to a point."

"The only way to obtain a complete dissolution that allowed for remarriage was to secure a parliamentary divorce, and these were notoriously difficult to obtain. They began with a criminal conversation case, because they relied on adultery by one of the parties to make them even a slight possibility. If a woman committed crim. con., her life in polite society was over."

[tadpolebobatea]

live slug reaction Chapter 211

thats… not what loop 100 tella looks like. lmao. anyway. Kills me that the only people unchaste worked on are Loop 100 Sean (not mentioned above, he’s dead by now) who is cartoon levels of asshole villain, of course he doesn’t have a loved one. And Tella someone who’s main character trait is his dedication to his boss. Who he holds as more important than anything else in his life, and who’s main conflict is worrying over said boss. tell me tozuka!!!! What is devotion if not love!!! Come on man!!!!

(I’m working on “he wasn’t being honest about what he wanted (i.e not wanting to fight god, not wanting billy to fight god) in his relationship with billy so it wasn’t sincere. Partners talk to each other rather than just being told what to do or something. But I am just coping here)

Poor boy. Dragged into being into being an unwilling Guinea pig… geez. So the crux of this chapter for me is if the ability is going to work on tella. Because I’m invested in-

What the fuck is that

Me when there’s a new chapter

BillyTella nation! we’re so back! It’s so over! results inconclusive!!! (Classic tozuka non-answer… don’t worry tella, i believe you care for billy)

Also oh my god. KURURU I WOULD KILL FOR YOU BBGRL. Grinning little gremlin!!! (Did she brainwash them into playing death metal as well? Or is she death growling over them playing regular idol backing music)

unclear what this means for kurukae yuri nation… I think we might still be on? Narrative foils are fair game

No further comments

get his ass (hi Veronica. Glad to see you’re still like… alive 👍)

I 100% buy this lol. He’s friends with creed who tried to kill him (and succeeded in killing his squad last loop). Billy is just like that…

Veronica being a mercenary does add another layer to Billy’s whole steal the disc and become the worlds enemy angle. And how it was like:

The reader: Wdym you’re going to be a supervillain. Billy you have a wife at home???

The wife in question, probably: FUCK EM UP HONEY!!! Get they ass!!

can you 2 maybe stop smoking around your toddler? Oh and glad to see Mui just being slid in next to the wives. Real casual like.

Glad that my joking prediction of a mlp equestria girls evil battle of the bands is coming true. Good for them (also that kururu eye close up goes hard)

Well good luck girls, unchaste has none of the weaknesses it had last time. Good news for the “Unchaste would be busted if the activation wasn’t so strict” girlies. We were right. This is not exactly good news for The gang though 

[dreamnants-mis]

It's time for yet another "more stuff I noticed while re-reading chapters". Today's focus is on miscommunication, especially when it comes to someone protecting someone else and how easily wrong it can go when one party does things against what the other party wants.

It got really long, so uh, sorry about that.

Spoilers for up to Chapter 183!

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Billy

Ah, Billy. There's a lot to unpack about him.

Billy's greatest flaw is his kindness and protectiveness. His wish to protect others is not a bad thing on its own. Where things go badly is when he decides to protect the younger Union members by betraying them and stealing their powers so they wouldn't have to fight. But of course, right away, this action hurts Tatiana, the girl who he treated like his daughter and who saw him as a parent. Not to mention the hurt feelings of everyone he hurt in the process who saw him as an ally and friend.

There's another thing about how Billy's desire to protect actually ends up in a sense demeaning the people he wants to protect because he isn't quite seeing them as equals or colleagues or shows he trusts them.

Something I don't think really gets talked about is how Billy did everything trying to protect the Union, but as the vision of the original unaltered future showed, forming Under indirectly caused Sean to kill Fuuko during the Autumn quest and her death causes a chain reaction that leads to the end of the Union as a whole. And this would have just broken poor Tatiana since Fuuko was her friend on top of Billy's betrayal. Things only don't end this way because of Anno Un's interference, but I think it really highlights how Billy thinking what's best for those he's trying to protect is quite the opposite since he's failing to communicate with the other party and that would have destroyed the people he was trying to protect.

This all neatly fits into what Unfair's flaw is: Billy cannot use his copied abilities to the same potential as the originals because he doesn't have the same understanding the original users have with living with the abilities. Billy for example uses Undead for regenerating only, but never uses any of the Undead techniques like Parts Bullets because that technique is something only possible for someone who lived long enough with Undead to make pain more like background noise.

There's another moment Chapter 72 has a subtle moment with this with Kururu (Unchaste). Her ability works on infatuation, and this is what she has to say about Fuuko when she tries using it on her:

Note Kururu saying Fuuko "fell in love with the mere idea of romance".

If it's possible Kururu was told this about Fuuko from Billy, than I imagine that's why Kururu was on guard duty even though if you think about it, Fuuko has the best chance of escaping her since Kururu can't do much else to stop her if her ability doesn't work, which it does because Fuuko has grown to love Andy.

But this also shows Billy views Fuuko as naive and thinks of Fuuko's feelings for Andy akin to a shallow schoolgirl crush, especially since he knows Andy protects her to use her to die and therefore he needs to prevent her from fighting in something she got pretty much dragged into. Of course, the latter fact was true. But, while Billy would have no way of knowing about what Andy and Fuuko went through in the Autumn arc, he does overlook that even as early as the Unrepair arc (which happened in September) that Andy was beginning to care about Fuuko beyond just a means to off himself. And Billy also ignores the efforts Fuuko went through to train herself to be stronger. I mean, Fuuko freaking blew a part of his face off with a gun when he betrayed the Union, which I don't think someone without resolve could have done.

While Billy knows what influences the strength of Fuuko's Unluck is how much she likes a person, he also overlooks it's Fuuko that makes Unluck such a dangerous power. Fuuko is a kind,empathetic and determined person that was given a cruel ability that would hurt her the most by putting people she loves at risk or worst. Yet, even at the lowest point of her life, she was still able to cry over a man unable to die who wasn't afraid to touch her surrendering himself to save her life.

AKA Billy doesn't recognize what about Fuuko makes Juiz see her as a beacon of hope and ends up focusing on just her ability, which alone isn't enough to kill God. I think Billy wouldn't be able to summon meteorites if he'd even been able to copy Unluck. And this is something even Billy ends up understanding and accepting after the Spring battle to end up regretting deciding to betray the Union in the first place.

Actually, Billy is also a little like Victor...But where Billy ends up differing from Victor is how he is able to recognize what he just harmed the people he wanted to protect and is able to make up for harming Tatiana to stay by her side until she dies.

Err, anyway, I think I've talked enough about Billy for this post. Let's move on.

Rip and Latla

Rip actually has some parallels to Victor and Juiz while he's mainly a foil to Andy... I focus on Rip for this one, but this also applies to Latla too.

Rip we already know is doing everything to get the Ark and loop to stop Leila's disastrous operation that killed her when Unrepair manifested, and he's done a lot of things (ex.cut his legs off, threaten people, kill people, etc.) in order to make that happen. Therefore, the other party is deceased.

But something interesting is how Chapter 109 reveals everything Rip and Latla have been doing is completely against anything Leila wanted for him or Latla to do. What Leila wanted from them was for them both to forget about her and focus on using their abilities to save others. I interpret these words as a genuine belief in them that despite their abilities being ruined by their Negator powers, there was something they could do with them to help others. Leila wanting them both to not focus on her death but rather the happiness they gave her despite her limited time to then focus on bringing happiness to others.

(Forgetting is actually another thing that pops up every now and then come to think of it.)

Unfortunately for Leila, Rip and Latla only despair and become desperate to do anything to save her, completely forgetting what Leila truly wanted and leading to them wanting the Ark to save her and only her. Something that ultimately ends badly for them both, and Rip in particular becoming a shadow of his former self to get to the Ark.

(Doesn't this sound familiar?)

Rip only remembers after both he and Latla are fatally wounded what Leila would have wanted would have been to work with the Union to kill God, the one truly responsible for her death.

A little detail I've I think is important to think about is the cover of Volume 13:

Leila's posture in this cover has her hands clasped together as if praying away from both Latla and Rip. We don't know what expression she has on her face, but I imagine being forced to watch your childhood friend and sister do anything for your sake, even though that was nothing you wanted, subjecting someone else to unhappiness, would make it a pained expression.

Is Leila praying for someone to save Rip and Latla from themselves before they do something that can never be taken back?

Based on Leila's words on her deathbed, I suspect if Rip had been able to loop and if she knew what it took to save her life was making another man lose the love of his life and dooming humanity in the process, I doubt she would ever be happy with knowing her happiness was at the cost of pretty much everyone else's happiness.

In fact, in the Sick arc, Leila shows signs she doesn't want to protected by Rip and Latla all the time, since she volunteers willingly to have Fuuko operate on her on the battlefield to be bait for Sick as her way of being able to fight alongside them. I mean, I think that speaks a lot you're willing to make yourself bait for a living personification of the world's illnesses and diseases without hesitating that's giving the organization dedicated to fighting them a tough time. So yes, it does still show Rip and Latla both due to their love for Leila end up forgetting what she would have actually wanted them to do, hence miscommunication.

Going back to Leila on Volume 13's cover thinking about it in the context of the Sick arc, perhaps Leila's praying may have been not only a wish for someone to save Rip and Latla from themselves, but a wish that she can protect Rip and Latla in turn after everything they're done for her, which is something she may be able to do in the 101st loop that wouldn't have been possible if Rip had ridden the Ark to save her.

Who knows?

Juiz and Victor

I talked about these two in a different post, but I really wanted to talk about it a little more here because of how these two are mirrors of Fuuko and Andy.

In this case, the miscommunication is very mutual on both ends. I think in the end, the ultimate breakdown of their partnership came when the two stopped being able to communicate with each other. As we learn, what Juiz and Victor want is for the other to be happy. But 99 loops of failure embittered and changed them both for the worst (Juiz became increasingly unfettered and Victor became nihilistic, and both became increasingly distant from their humanity).

Perhaps both of them ended up unable to be honest with each other, Victor not being able to articulate how painful it was to watch Juiz to become someone he was starting to recognize over an impossible task, and Juiz being unable to see what she was doing was starting to make Victor despair.

This part in particular where I felt that disconnect in communication between them. And that showed throughout the earlier conversation where it almost felt Victor couldn't say what he actually wanted as if he thought nothing he would say would get through to Juiz.

And well...we all know what happens next.

In the end, Victor hit the breaking point and tries to kill Juiz after deciding the only way for Juiz to be happy is for her to forget killing God and him and live the last loop peacefully. This is contrasted with how Juiz kept going in the first place because she wanted Victor to be happy, which wouldn't be possible if he kept being unable to die, resulting in her sealing Victor away with Remember so she can continue to try killing God, even if Victor wouldn't be with her anymore.

And the sad thing is in the end, neither of them get what they really want.

Juiz does indeed die like Victor wanted, but it's clear Victor realizes that it wasn't at all what he really wanted, because Victor became so disconnected from his humanity he probably only could understand why the others kept fighting after he lost the person that mattered the most to him. And it's sad on Juiz' end because she never did get to see Victor truly happy again, and could only wish to be able to meet him again in the final loop.

We might not know what might have been Victor's true wish unless he makes an appearance (and he probably will, considering there's actually a line that indicates another Negator near Void hidden by a text bubble in Fuuko's Negator roadmap).

Though I could theorize what both Victor and Juiz wanted in the end was to be able to be happy together. And hopefully, that may not be an impossible task.

BONUS

"Oh my gosh, you still have more to say?"

Err...yeah.

While on the bus today, I remembered that Rip is a foil to Andy and it reminded me of the conversation Andy and Victor had in Chapter 110 that I think highlights something about this theme:

Andy admits he's actually like Rip and Latla in that he wants to see the person he loves happy. But what's interesting is how he also knows, considering the person Fuuko is, if something happened to even someone considered a foe, she wouldn't be happy. Therefore, for her to be happy, they are both necessary for that, leading to the conundrum of whether or not to let them take the points. Ultimately, in order for Fuuko to loop, Andy has to fatally wound Rip because he's beyond reasoning with, and that is something he isn't happy about doing.

It's a subtle thing, but it does show something interesting about why both Andy and Fuuko are the beacons of hope for humanity winning, and I think that's just neat.

Okay, I promise, that's all for this rambling!

[swampy-sayin-it]

Slapping God in The Face Part 1

The Children Suffer

We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law, with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, the unchaste, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted. 1 Timothy 1:8-11

As our country spins ever so faster down the toilet bowl of time we are somehow getting gaslighted into thinking that all this queer crap is just a normal way of expressing one's self in a more theatrical way. So, let us look at this gender questioning ideology nonsense. Why is it so important for people to be conformed to something that they consciously oppose? I believe I have the answer here.

The First Sin When it all boils down to is this. All this queerness, gender confusion is all about questioning God and His creation. This is the original sin in the Garden of Eden when the snake asked Eve," Did God really say that….?"

Gender confusion is that same as telling God He does not know what He was doing when He created us. Those that propagate this garbage are telling people, mainly children, that they are born wrong and need to change.

Picking On The Children Why pick on the children? For one, Jesus loves children and the Satan would love nothing more than to kill, maim, destroy children before they can grow up and think for themselves. Since the demoniacs have taken over the country the "woke joke" is cramming as much of this gay crap into everything we do, consume, and watch on the tube.

The whole is insidious idea is to raise a generation of eunuchs that have their bodies mutilated and their minds warped beyond recognition. This is what they are do to your kids.

Killing the Children If the Satanists in govt and other places cannot kill the child in the womb then there is an all out effort to "kill" them in other ways. If we send our children to the public indoctrination camps called public schools then we as parents are failing our kids.

The demonic overlords are looking to steal away the innocence of childhood from your kids by any means necessary. Let that marinate in your mind some. If they cannot steal your kids gender they will fill his/her heads with other means to steal their innocence. A child's mind is susceptible to non-stop gaslighting of being told that their self worth being useless, and if a certain skin color a victim, or racist oppressor.

In fact, these child molesters we call teachers teach these kids for years that there is no future for them and that they can take all they want, destroy all they want, and murder if they want. After all, you are born in the wrong body, wrong skin color, and in the worst country in the modern world.

Fighting Back Sometimes, we Christians get into this rut of "will pray on it" routine. That is good that you "pray on it", but now what you going to do about it? Are you subscribed to Disney Channel? Are you trading your money for good sold at places that endorse this behavior? The question becomes why?

I have a few ideas that we can do to start making differences.

Run for the local school board and oversee what sort of things are being taught in your school district.

If you can seek alternative education including homeschooling.

Get a hold of your state and federal congressmen and get some answers. If they have nothing more than empty promises and platitudes then work to primary them out. They will do you no good otherwise.

Church support is critical here. Get the church involved in this and yes it is Biblical to support Christian ideas in the public square.

Conclusion This is just a small part of the problems out there that we can control and take over. The only thing stopping us from doing that is not doing anything, or letting someone else do it for you. Think of it this way, those crowns given out by God at the end of time are given for the good things you do in the here and now. I do not know about you, but I want one more for my head. How about you?

“If God is for us, who can be against us?” Romans 8:31.

[sideblog-usernametaken]

@tokiro07

Would've put this in the replies but it would've taken too many parts so I made it a reblog instead:

This would actually make a scary amount of sense if we're being completely honest. Kurusu's tragedy boiled down to "Well, she can't be an idol anymore. What a shame." Compared to basically every other Negator tragedy this is utterly trivial. This is something that not only does happen in real life, but it also happens constantly. While getting mobbed by your fans is absolutely traumatic, it's not really comparable to accidentally killing your parents or killing a colleague on live TV or being forced to live for 445.5 Billion years.

Depending on the activation conditions, someone with UnChaste could live a completely normal life like the holder of UnAvoidable before Void. So it's not impossible that Kaede could've gotten UnChaste, gave up the idol life, then settled down to have a family without ever knowing she's a Negator. Her leaving the idol scene because of UnChaste would also explain why they never told Fuuko about it, how do you explain to your kid that you used to have a successful music career but stopped because your fans got too horny at a concert? Likewise, this is why her grandfather never told her either. However bad it would've been to explain before it's even worse after Kaede dies.

This would also fall into place with our new knowlege of how Negator abilities work. If Kaede used to work with Kurusu, then she probably recommended her to be the next UnChaste. We still don't fully understand how the timing works or what criteria previous Negators look for, but with Unbreakable and UnTruth there's a precedent for choosing people close to the previous Negator despite what kind of tragedy will occur.

Lastly, we come to the UnChaste tragedy itself. The reason Kaede dies in a plane crash is because her daughter developed UnLuck. If she didn't have to give up on being an idol, then she either wouldn't have had children or she would've had them later in life, meaning she never would've been hit with UnLuck. The plane crash could've been a two for one tragedy where Fuuko loses her mother and Kaede has to reside in her former colleague and know that her daughter is growing up without parents (And eventually meeting her in person through Kurusu and finding out just how horrible of a life she's really had).

Now that I've said all this, I would like to address that narratively speaking this is unlikely. The reason is because the current loop has a lot of time dedicated to characters who never got much of a spotlight or explanation on the previous loop. Like, Void didn't really do much in the previous loop either, he showed up and got murdered then he was almost never brought up again outside of Fuuko feeling guilty (Even then that guilt was mostly about Gina). I mean, he never even makes it to a manga cover until the next loop starts yet he's one of the first characters to get an arc dedicated to them. Then there are other characters like Sean who got maybe 5 pages worth of apperances total in the previous loop who are now just part of the main cast.

My point here is that while it is possible Kaede will be UnChaste (It would easily fit after all) Kurusu is probably still going to get UnChaste and be the focus of this arc. However, I'm not going to try to predict either way because Kaede is much more important to the plot than Kurusu and got much less time than her in the previous loop.

There is also the worst option:

Kaede gets UnChaste.

Fuuko accidentally touches her a little bit and a massive stroke of UnLuck happens.

Kurusu gets UnChaste.

Fuuko and Kaede both fail to escape their tragedies despite Fuuko helping to save literally everyone else.

This serves as a breaking point for Fuuko, and a poorly timed one at that because they still have more Master Rules to beat and Andy to save. It would basically be a way to throw a monkey wrench into the whole operation since things have been relatively smooth sailing so far and they seem like they'll genuinely be prepped for Sol at this rate (After all their main issue last time was infighting).

look i just need to say this one thing. if fuuko's mom ends up being unchaste i'm going to fucking scream

[tokiro07]

Ch. 133 thoughts

[The Journey Begins...Again]

So Fuuko DOES have her Union Emblem still, it’s just on her backpack instead. I wonder if it’s technically a part of the Round Table? After all, only those who wear the Emblem are allowed to participate in quests, so that would make sense

The Round Table also remains under Stonehenge between Loops, so I’m guessing that it’s not so much that the Union needs to find it, but the location is a constant for the sake of maintaining a base

How Fuuko befriended Move I don’t know, but it’s cool that she has a method of fast-travel considering that she clearly doesn’t have Juiz’s resources. I’m hoping we’ll get an explanation, but I’m not too worried about it. It’s probably as simple as Move just being nearby and inherently interested in working with the Union for the sake of entertainment (as he said in the Galaxy battle)

The date that Akira became Unknown being different between the current Loop and To You, From Me seems to imply that my suggestion that the timing of Information’s defeat wasn’t consistent, but it also makes me wonder: did...did Fuuko beat Information on her own? She seems to be the only one in the Union currently

Or was it that because it was established in a previous Loop, it’s now preordained?

Fuuko says “G-Liner’s memories,” so it doesn’t seem like it has the vision of the current Loop, but I’m unclear on that. What is clear is that Fuuko explicitly confirms that the third Sacred Spirit Treasure is The Heart, which was one of the two that I suggested previously (sad it’s not the gun, but honestly The Heart felt more natural anyway)

Speaking of things I said previously, I can’t believe I forgot to mention Ichiko last week when I was listing off the Negators that Fuuko could have already met! I mean clearly I was wrong anyway, she hasn’t found ANYONE yet, but I expected that anyway

Looking at the road map, it’s clear that the cast is more or less in chronological order, with Feng, Gina and Nico being the closest to where Fuuko currently is and Phil being much further out and still a baby, suggesting that he got Unfeel almost immediately and before Kururu got Unchaste

Very interesting that Fuuko is including Ruin in her list. Is the plan to recruit him or just to remove him from the equation as a threat? Probably the former considering that everything else in this series has been about making friends out of enemies

Also, it’s been bothering me all day since I read the chapter, but I finally realized who the Negator in the far back just before Juiz is: it’s Lucy! She was so small it was really hard to tell, but that’s definitely her! Can’t wait for Fuuko and Andy to adopt their child with every disease. Weird that no one has added her to the list of Negators on the Wiki yet, but whatever, I’m not going to do it either, so no sense in me complaining about it

I do hope that Fuuko will recruit Unbalance, Unbelievable and Undefinition, plus any others that Tozuka just wants to invent, but I don’t think we really NEED more characters, I’d just like them

I also kind of like that Fuuko doesn’t have access to Remember, since she’ll have to actually, y’know...CONVINCE people to join her cause, but she’ll definitely need to use Remember at some point so that the cast can be considered extensions of their previous selves rather than new versions of them

I’m hoping that Akira finds a way to continue contributing, whether he becomes Unknown again or not, but either way, I’m really excited for this arc. Seeing more of Gina after well over 100 chapters is extremely welcome!

[paradife-loft]

Avoidance

1.2k words, Xiyao, Qinyao, JGY POV. A discussion of marriage. Everyone’s aro in this bar, yes I DO make the rules.

So, allegedly I am “trying to write at least a fic a week or so for Jin Guangyao’s birthday month” or similar? Skating in right under the “deadline” for week 1, of course; how could I do anything else? The other, uhh, vague inspiration going on for me this month is the AroWriMo project happening in February, even if I feel ??? about actually submitting things for it because I’m a weirdo (shhhh) >_> So yeah, I was thinking of that week 1 prompt, “future” for this as well.

-----

“Er-ge. Are you sure nothing is bothering you today, besides the usual small matters? You’ve seemed distracted all through dinner. I know you said everything at Gusu is fine and your brother’s just returned, but if there’s anything at all…”

The slight push, necessary you’ve determined with how oddly quiet he’s been, is kind and, you hope, gentle – but still firm enough, it seems, to make Lan Xichen avert his eyes. Instead of answering you, immediately, he reaches for the pot of tea; holds his sleeve; refills your cup, then his own.

By the time he’s finished, his face has opened slightly - he does not smile, not as you would, nor as he might have if asked the same thing by another, letting the customary warmth of his demeanor freeze over with the thinnest layer of ice. He looks pensive, mostly; uncertain; flesh and blood.

“I have had a few… uncomfortable conversations with my uncle recently,” Xichen eventually admits. He holds the pearl-white clay and its wisps of fragrant steam before his chest, cupping one hand with the other. “He and the clan elders are of a like mind on seeing the continuation of the clan’s main line, and regarding the benefits of a happy marital union that they prefer I not deprive myself of.”

He sighs, perhaps without noticing it, and then this time, he does smile at you, as if apologising for bringing any mention of discordance or turmoil to your door, much less one you’ve already discussed before.

“Would it help to think of it merely in the practical sense?” you offer, trying to imagine it yourself as you do: Lan Xichen, accompanied by a wife, by a Lan-furen, the sort of partner he could deserve and find joy and comfort in. It is difficult; even with your talents and the closer intimacy he has allowed you into compared to anyone else outside his house, you find it a faint and slippery impression to hold. A sect leader ought to be balanced by a partner and his children, but Lan Xichen, for all his kindness, his warmth, rebuffs any attempts to picture him so.

(You remember, suddenly, the outline of a dream he once related to you, sitting calm and drowsing at your feet in little more than an underrobe, while you stroked his hair in your lap. He had flushed to tell it, and ultimately gotten little more detail out than a focal point where you called him, and treated him, as your wife. Not the sort of fantasy you’d been looking for at the time, but you’d negotiated plenty of ideas over the years and a few incompatible ones on occasion weren’t that difficult.)

Not that any of that is, for the moment, practical. You sip your tea, and contemplate how best you might advocate, as Lan Xichen terms, the benefits of a happy union.

Your first comparison, of course, is yourself and a-Su – how could it not be? You know precious few others. Meanwhile, her kindness has dredged your spirit from the depths of some of the most crushing, bloody-bruised days you remember at Jinlintai; through the years, her laughter has infected you; her boldness suggested solutions to puzzles you had otherwise tangled yourself into irreparable knots over. Even if, steadfastly, you had refused all her advances, any unchaste touch, since the time you learned…

With a flicker, you turn that thought into powdery dust, and touch up the pleasant, thoughtful face you’ve donned instead. Lan Xichen still watches you, quiet and polite in the way he indicates his interest.

You lay your palms flat on the table. “Would it be such a difficult thing? To have a companion with you when circumstances don’t permit one of us to travel; to have someone who can help you balance the responsibilities of your sect? Ignoring, for a moment, the presence of a certain type of… passion and sentiment that the traditional texts assume –”

A full smile crosses your face back at him now, and you coax it into amusement, into seeming a bit playful and conspiratorial through a crinkle in your eyes. “I think if pressed, you could certainly find scholars somewhere in your library who might agree with a partnership you’d find more compatible than that, don’t you? A guest in the home, after all?”

Xichen returns your smile, but the shape of his lips is wry, his face tight about his eyes and mouth. “A-Yao... And if I would prefer to not have any guests in my house? What would you suggest then?”

It has the form of the banter you’d hoped for, but little of the substance, and it catches you off-guard like missing a step down the stairs.

You can’t help but duck your eyes once he finishes, your face warming in understanding. You lace your fingers inward beneath the table. “I apologise, er-ge,” you respond, a moment of tightened silence later. “I thought to offer the kind of advice I’ve taken comfort in myself, in the past; I didn’t mean to overstep.”

His smile softens, even if it doesn’t looks much happier. “I understand; I take no offense. But you – have you been having difficulties in your relationship with Jin-furen? To need comforting advice? The pair of you always seemed… but please, if I’ve ignored some distress you’ve had, or if I can offer advice, or sympathy…”

Ah, er-ge. He’s probably aware that you’ve noted the abrupt way he’s slid between topics, but considering… you can let him pretend if he wants this time.

You shake your head. “A-Su and I are as well as always. The notion of marriage can simply be… nerve-racking, for one preparing to enter into it, is all.”

If you were to spare a longer glance cast outside the center of your thoughts, you might more substantively lay eyes on the grain of frustration lurking there, but…

(The obvious aside, as you ordinarily try to keep it, you are not unhappy with Qin Su. She is dear to you; she is lovely and gracious and kind and witty as you could have ever wished a wife to be. But if you had ever wished not to court her, or to court anyone - ? Well. How could anyone turn down the alliances that would be made, the riches changing hands to secure a betrothal?)

(Anyone other than a Jade of Lan, apparently.)

But he nods in agreement at your own polite deflection of the topic; even as, from what you’ve gleaned, his own feelings were he in the position you reference would be characterised less as anxiety and more like dread – with none of the pleasant anticipation you had told yourself you must have felt as well.

You don’t truly mind. Lan Xichen has so few people to care for him as a person, rather than an image; you feel a contentment in being able to do so, even if as now you misstep on occasion.

Perhaps, on this topic, you will be able to try again once the bruises aren’t so fresh.

[nerdygaymormon]

hi! i was wondering what you thought about going to pride (parties/parades/events). i've been told that celebrating queerness or acknowledging that I am gay in anyway other than as an admission of sin or 'i am gay but you know what jesus helped me rise above it so im basically not even gay anymore and i never talk about it'. but i really want to go to pride, but is that bad? like, "celebrating the homosexual lifestyle" is wrong, but is there even a "homosexual" lifestyle? anyway, any thoughts?

I know many gay church members who hold callings and are “out” and known in their congregation and community who go to Pride. Every June my social media is flooded with pictures of them at Salt Lake Pride. 

The Church doesn’t discourage people from going to Pride, or to not acknowledge they are gay or any other similar restrictions (although the Church used to discourage all these things, even counseled against using the word “gay,” but no longer). 

There may be a local leader who imposes his own tougher standard, but he would be out of line. To say you are sinning by declaring you’re gay is contrary to the Church’s position. The Church say it is not sinful to be gay, it’s actions that are sinful. The Church also does not expect Jesus and His atonement to change anyone to not be gay. 

The Church’s requirement is for a gay member to remain chaste (to not engage in sexual activity). You can read more at the Church’s website. Basically, any activity which is permitted for straight single people is also permitted for gay single people. 

Can a person go to support groups for queer people (like GSA or PFLAG or an LGBTQ community center) and be a good member of the church? Yes

Can a member be in good standing and attend a gathering of queer people who are playing games or going to the movies, or to an art exhibit together? Yes

Can a person go to a celebration like Pride and be a good member? Yes.

Can a person be “out” as gay and serve as a missionary? Yes 

Can a person attend a conference for LGBTQIA members? Yes. In fact, Affirmation and North Star both hold conferences in Utah that are well attended. Affirmation’s conference even does a session for LDS Church leaders like bishops and stake presidents

Can someone who is gay hold hands, hug, snuggle with, dance with, date and kiss with someone else who is gay? Yes...unless you’re attending one of the church schools because it’s against the Honor Code. However, while allowed, these things make leaders very nervous because they’re steps along the way to becoming a couple, having a relationship, and so on, but these are not unchaste activities.

Can someone go to a gay bar and remain in good standing with the church? Yes, but this is getting into an area where leaders would also be concerned about straight members going to a bar. However, in many places a gay bar is the only queer-specific space and you could be going there to see a performance or something along that line. 

Can someone vote in support of gay marriage and show that support on social media and remain a member in good standing? Yes. Elder Christofferson clarified this back in 2015.

Can a church member attend a gay wedding and still have a temple recommend? Of course. We can celebrate the milestones of the lives of our friends and family. This is like asking can a member attend an infant’s christening and remain a good member. 

Essentially it comes down to this, as long as you aren’t having sex and you aren’t advocating for the church to be forced to perform gay marriage, or in some other way to use the government to force the church to change its teachings and doctrine, you’re welcome to follow your conscience and still be a member in good standing. 

As for “celebrating the homosexual lifestyle,” what even does that mean? A homosexual lifestyle is however a gay person lives, and there’s many ways to live as a gay person. That’s like talking about a “heterosexual lifestyle,” it’s basically meaningless because however a straight person lives is their “lifestyle.” 

[bookofmormonmemes]

I don't think comp het would be strong enough to lead Corianton to seek out a female harlot when he could have easily Not Done That and spared himself and his family and his church the embarrassment. What else could he possibly have hoped to gain from that decision besides satisfying the lusts of his eyes? I mean, Alma clearly thought that Corianton's horniness was the main problem and there's no evidence to the contrary. Why out of Alma's sons would you think Corianton is gay?

honestly? projection. like not to get personal but comp het was strong enough scare the hell out of my parents with how quickly and intensely physical my relationship with my boyfriend got in my freshman year of college. I’m an afab person and I am not attracted to boys, but for a while I thought maybe it was just because I wasn’t trying hard enough--wasn’t opening up enough, wasn’t letting myself enjoy his affection. At this time, I was still operating under the viewpoint that marrying a man was the only way for me to ever be happy, in this life or the next. If I could endure my discomfort long enough to eventually accept and actually enjoy our physical relationship, that meant that i Could have a happy heterosexual marriage in the future 

and i tried to speedrun it! i went way outside my comfort zone, definitely way outside the For the Strength of Youth guidelines--because the alternative was, if I couldn’t force myself to feel something for him, then i would Never have that happiness. If I Could eventually become attracted to him, then I had a future. I could repent of this unchastity and try again. if i Couldn’t, that was it--I was fully a lesbian and my only choices were either celibacy or apostasy.

(i don’t feel that way anymore. this boy and I broke up after like 4 months. im v happy with the girlfriend I have now and I think our relationship and the affection between us has progressed much more naturally and comfortably and im very grateful for that.)

I think it’s entirely possible Corianton could have had those same (or similar) feelings. Alma specifies that Corianton is in his youth, so I think he might have been just starting to realize he’s different, and didn’t know what to do when confronted with the possibility that he might not like women. So he goes after a harlot, someone who’s already stolen away the hearts of many, someone with enough celebrity for Alma to call her out by name. It’s like when you ask a closeted lesbian her celebrity crush and she just says Chris (Chris Evans? Chris Pine? Just whoever’s most popular, whoever everybody else has a crush on!). Because if he can really feel that lust for Isabel, then afterwards he can repent and find a Good Mormon Nephite Girl to actually fall in love with. If he can’t manage any attraction to Siron’s Top Sexiest Bachelorette, he’s done for. It’s a last-ditch effort to fit the mold.

And it doesn’t work. He comes home, having embarrassed his family and his church, and he sits down for a lecture and he is Not Having A Good Time. Which...I think may be the reason Alma perceives that Corianton’s so worried about mortality and the afterlife. After falling so far and failing so bad, Corianton may have very well been suicidal at this point. If he doesn’t have any hope of Hetero Happiness in this life, maybe his only shot is in the next.

So in the end of chapter 41, Alma talks about resurrection and restoration in a way that I think is pretty key to this interpretation. Every queer member of the Church has heard that they’ll be “fixed” (i.e. made straight/cis) in the Resurrection, but Alma refutes that in this section so hard and so explicitly. In verse 12-13: “Is the meaning of the word restoration to take a thing of a natural state and put it in an unnatural state, or to place it in a state opposite to its nature? O, my son, this is not the case; but the meaning of the word restoration is to bring back again evil for evil...good for that which is good.” Whether good or bad, Corianton isn’t gonna be changed in the Resurrection; he’s not gonna be a different person, he’s not gonna be rid of what he perceives as being wrong with him. That might be a comfort. It might not. But it’s the truth.

In the next chapter Alma goes on to specify that this life is the time to fix what we’ve done wrong. And specifically, that we can fix what we’ve done wrong. And also that that’s not necessarily a get-out-of-jail-free card! Corianton should NOT have abandoned his mission to go after Isabel, regardless of his reasons. And he’s not gonna change his nature in the next life. So right now, he needs to repent. He needs to accept his nature. He does have hope, and he has that hope of happiness in goodness, in treating others with truth and mercy and service. 

 Alma closes chapter 41 not with a call to be more virtuous or pure, but to be merciful and just with his brethren and to do good--focusing not on how righteous we are in our own selves, but how we treat one another. Finally, he closes chapter 42 (and his talk to corianton in general) similarly: “Go thy way, declare the word with truth and soberness, that thou mayest bring souls unto repentance, that the great plan of mercy my have claim upon them.” Basically: you screwed up, kiddo, but I love you and I believe in you and you’ve got good work to do. Don’t worry. Be kind. Keep determined. Find joy in community. You have hope.

also when all is said and done corianton goes on the cool sailing pilgrimage with hagoth & co. which is Very Gay if i may say 

So. Do I think Corianton was gay, and do I think I have good reason for that? Yes. Do I think he was out to his dad, or that Alma would have been supportive, or that Nephite society would have the same homophobia and heteronormativity as the Church today? I don’t know. I’m more of an artist than a scholar--I interpret based on how I feel. I liken the scriptures to myself. This is the evidence I see, this is the story I feel is behind it, this is the eisegesis I’m choosing to take from it. Because it speaks to me, and I relate to it!

I hope this has been a thoughtful adequate answer, but to really tl;dr it basically he’s gay cus im gay and i said so, and that’s really all there needs to be to it! Thank you for sending me this ask and thereby allowing me the space to really study and wax long-winded about this jsdfghjdjfg. gay sailor rights and i hope u have a lovely sunday

[nightwingvixen23]

JayRoy short fanfic I whipped up inspired by this god damned song right here lol👇

@aceofenderdark i was in a legit mood lol

💘💘💘

Roy speaks in the way that Siren’s sing, flooding venom in to my mouth and watching it drip like a ruptured peach to the sting of front teeth. Ripping such fragile skin into nasty pieces of flesh, letting lay bare the very salacious core hidden in the seam. 

His flaming hair has grown out (frequently used to twisting or tying it up into a knot) tonight it remains loose. Untamed. And my fingers play through that somehow flawless shit storm, tangling each lock into madness; they overall might dangle into his glaring eyes but that does nothing to befog the fire smoking from within. He looks wild above me. Never have I asked to be such a blooded piece of meat at the ready to be gutted; staring into the yawning mouth of the lion, of whom, is fucking starved. 

Right now, I know that he knows that it’s not his nails nor teeth that I fear will gift me new damage, but his eyes. They inspire, burn, destroy. I’m left suspended in the company of a gore leaking orifice that bellows ‘look at me’ should my mind toe outside the line of our depraved Love Nest; this being no more then the feral charge then skirmish to the floor of a Gotham City safehouse.

We sure are givin’ some poor son of a bitch a show, I think, spotting the newfangled surveillance camera I hadn’t noticed sooner, newly installed high left. My mind darts to Tim making my hands sweat, however, Roy’s fingers bruising my chin pull me back down into the waters of our fucked up little fantasy. 

The holsters loyal to each my thighs are disengaged, followed by the faint skidding rattle of two M1911 pistols being launched across a cement floor. This all titters a secret to me that I am now in the hands of no mercy.

It’s during a moment like this (offering myself over to be caught in the line of fire) that I swear by the unholy mess in me that Roy Harper is some sort of Saintly Deity of Insanity that which no god can put a name to. Why else would I worship this fucker’s dick like i do ? Call me crude, vulgar, whatever...doesn’t change the fact that the shitty ass truth, is in fact, the shitty ass truth. That truth being that I demand his unsympathetic grip akin to an infant demanding it’s very first breath of life. The affliction of every scar mapping my body is something that I didn’t fuckin’ ask to be met with, nevertheless, something about the power that comes with directing an overdose of a serpentine thirst such as this one that makes me feel more in control then when my hands are gripping lead. 

Our lips meet with vigor. I’ve never known it to be smooth. Never known us to take our time, yanno ? It’s always fierce. Hot. A clash of potent teeth seeking to grip and rip apart tender skin. To taste blood. And what’s a good fuck without the taste of blood ? C’mon. We’re deep. We’re thorough: two adrenaline filled junkies having gotten our first real swallow of the golden necator that has seduced us, dripping from uncut fruit laying bare in our wake while with instructions to never have one bite; we’re obsessed.

The tinkering jangle of an unhooked belt. The lick of Roy’s tongue into my mouth still tasting of shitty liquor from the corner store. A sinners Paradise. I tilt my head back for him and let teeth ascend onto my neck. I’m the lamb, sticking it’s neck out for the butcher. I want this. I want him to brand me intensely then cool it with a kiss because that is something that this world has done too many fucking times to me, and I’ve got the scars to prove it. 

Yeah, only because the world never did leave a kiss of apology.

Chewed mint gum, stale tobacco, and secrets kept out in the rain for far too long, left to tarnish with the coming of nightfall; this is his eternal flavour. 

Isn’t there some goddamn way for us to endure this way ? Twined together ? Just like this. Simply him ritualizing my abdomen that rose and fell with shaky gasps, his tongue marveling the carved indent of muscle there, tracing every groove proving personal fortitude. Proving that my ass didn’t get dropped down onto this fuckin waste land of a planet just to roll over like a creature without fight.

A trifling jungle, Life is.

“God. What a million mother fuckers would trade to see the Red Hood in this wrecked state. You wanna beg for me, doll ? That’s right. Beg for me then,” Roy’s voice is an instrument. His words, musical of filth. I’m being serenaded by the devil and it’s mother fuckin’ magical. Even so, I aim to punch him in the throat. I wasn’t gonna do much damage, was just gonna let him know what toes the line, but his hand wraps around my curled wrist and my bicep tenses. I’m straining to reach him. Straining to infect him, however somewhere in the tangle of that violence dance I strained also for his mouth like an addict for a needle. A taboo puppet. A homicidal angel, like he once called me before I spit in his eye earning my face into the wall.

What even are we doing, Roy Harper ? Why do we do this ? And why does it feel so right to scream your name into the hush of a blacked out room while you turn me inside out ? I’d ring God on the manner, but fuck—I just start pissing myself with laughter each time I start.

Gotta love this shade of grey I’ve established my life in the thick of. Grey is the blueprint of a soul caught in limbo. It’s a nice color. The ambiance is sedated, disrupted here and there by the tortured hollar of a condemned conscience—but life ain’t no fucking picnic.

Then again, even a tongue tied fool knows that.

…...

I can feel the frayed corners of ultimate reality beginning to shimmer. Roy watches me rising high even while knowing that soon I’ll crash, we will, together. And it’s so gorgeous for just a second that I could die like this. I know that it gets old hearing others romanticize death, yet I serious in the face of it. Serious and deeply, deeply in enamoured. Swept upon sandy beaches as to evade the lusting leviathan of the sea again and again. But I just wade back into the waters, deluded at times. Something like a drunk falling around town with an empty bottle of gin; everyone stares but no one will give directions to the nearest pub.

The vast gulf of the abyss beckons nearer with breath peppered by wanderlust and saliva spiked in moonshine. I can only take so much, however I’m forced, and so gorge on this easy feast.

Has a human ever been so unsteady and yet resistant ? So crippled and yet defiant ? I have many bones to pick with myself. I’ve splintered the masterpiece of my life into something ugly.

But I am a beast, aren’t I? And a Beast has always been one to see the Beauty in crude things. There is peace in the bloodstains, there is marvelous enrichment in the grimace of the faces. Cut me deeper Roy, squeeze red from my flesh so to let me continue my artistry. Open up the brushes of my fingers with your fangs and allow this woeful composer to create something for us both to laugh at.

Each finger in my mouth taste like pure sin. They scrape my gums until lips go down onto mine; then the fingers are put back into place. I choke. He chuckles. Fucking bastard.

Through these eyes of mine white with carnal tears, I look up and into the face of the man I didn’t mean to fall in love with wearing my blood upon his lips like a god damned badge of honor.

There’ll be no victor at the end of this unchaste warfare and I feel the cannon fires terminal blow. Yup. that’s my fucked up heart. What a tool.  

But it’s been this way for centuries, hasn’t it ? 

Sensuality is the baddest of bitches with hips that carve into yours tastefully. She’s the perfect fusion of warm and wanton that leaves you so powerfully drugged, that when you turn over to sleep soundly for having seen Nirvana it’s self, she’s able to hijack your shit with ease. Now your ass is left high and dry. But hey, you gotta relish her; notably on the day you find Sensuality knocking at your door again for having conceived with you a child named Regret, something that she drops off for you to raise alone. Now you’re in solitary as Regret clings to you tightly, sucking the life from your chest, but yet, still you nourish it. You love it because shit, it’s half of Sensuality isn’t it ? And had she not once been your reason worth living ?

I twist my fingers around Roy’s cross necklace still finding a way to glint silver in the dark, and pull him down into me with a grunt. For once, it’s his eyes that are glossed with hysterical fever, swimming and asphyxiated by all 7 of the Deadly Sins.

Yeah. That’s right fucker. At least for tonight, “You’re mine.”

Was that his whine that I heard ? Unquestionable was his moan. I think I hear him praying, but that doesn’t change the fact that come sunrise

We’ll both be waking up alone; 

the bruises I left on his neck the only souvenirs of my Love.

[nightwingvixen22]

Shaded In Grey

Summary : Jason loves Roy just as much as he loves the bruises that he paints into his skin; but to hell if he’ll ever let him know that and change the interplay of their lusting dance amongst the grey

💘💘💘

Roy speaks in the way that Siren’s sing, flooding venom in to my mouth and watching it drip like a ruptured peach to the sting of front teeth. Ripping such fragile skin into nasty pieces of flesh, letting lay bare the very salacious core hidden in the seam.

His flaming hair has grown out (frequently used to twisting or tying it up into a knot) tonight it remains loose. Untamed. And my fingers play through that somehow flawless shit storm, tangling each lock into madness; they overall might dangle into his glaring eyes but that does nothing to befog the fire smoking from within. He looks wild above me. Never have I asked to be such a blooded piece of meat at the ready to be gutted; staring into the yawning mouth of the lion, of whom, is fucking starved.

Right now, I know that he knows that it’s not his nails nor teeth that I fear will gift me new damage, but his eyes. They inspire, burn, destroy. I’m left suspended in the company of a gore leaking orifice that bellows ‘look at me’ should my mind toe outside the line of our depraved Love Nest; this being no more then the feral charge then skirmish to the floor of a Gotham City safehouse.

We sure are givin’ some poor son of a bitch a show, I think, spotting the newfangled surveillance camera I hadn’t noticed sooner, newly installed high left. My mind darts to Tim making my hands sweat, however, Roy’s fingers bruising my chin pull me back down into the waters of our fucked up little fantasy.

The holsters loyal to each my thighs are disengaged, followed by the faint skidding rattle of two M1911 pistols being launched across a cement floor. This all titters a secret to me that I am now in the hands of no mercy.

It’s during a moment like this (offering myself over to be caught in the line of fire) that I swear by the unholy mess in me that Roy Harper is some sort of Saintly Deity of Insanity that which no god can put a name to. Why else would I worship this fucker’s dick like i do ? Call me crude, vulgar, whatever…doesn’t change the fact that the shitty ass truth, is in fact, the shitty ass truth. That truth being that I demand his unsympathetic grip akin to an infant demanding it’s very first breath of life. The affliction of every scar mapping my body is something that I didn’t fuckin’ ask to be met with, nevertheless, something about the power that comes with directing an overdose of a serpentine thirst such as this one that makes me feel more in control then when my hands are gripping lead.

Our lips meet with vigor. I’ve never known it to be smooth. Never known us to take our time, yanno ? It’s always fierce. Hot. A clash of potent teeth seeking to grip and rip apart tender skin. To taste blood. And what’s a good fuck without the taste of blood ? C’mon. We’re deep. We’re thorough: two adrenaline filled junkies having gotten our first real swallow of the golden necator that has seduced us, dripping from uncut fruit laying bare in our wake while with instructions to never have one bite; we’re obsessed.

The tinkering jangle of an unhooked belt. The lick of Roy’s tongue into my mouth still tasting of shitty liquor from the corner store. A sinners Paradise. I tilt my head back for him and let teeth ascend onto my neck. I’m the lamb, sticking it’s neck out for the butcher. I want this. I want him to brand me intensely then cool it with a kiss because that is something that this world has done too many fucking times to me, and I’ve got the scars to prove it.

Yeah, only because the world never did leave a kiss of apology.

Chewed mint gum, stale tobacco, and secrets kept out in the rain for far too long, left to tarnish with the coming of nightfall; this is his eternal flavour.

Isn’t there some goddamn way for us to endure this way ? Twined together ? Just like this. Simply him ritualizing my abdomen that rose and fell with shaky gasps, his tongue marveling the carved indent of muscle there, tracing every groove proving personal fortitude. Proving that my ass didn’t get dropped down onto this fuckin waste land of a planet just to roll over like a creature without fight.

A trifling jungle, Life is.

“God. What a million mother fuckers would trade to see the Red Hood in this wrecked state. You wanna beg for me, doll ? That’s right. Beg for me then,” Roy’s voice is an instrument. His words, musical of filth. I’m being serenaded by the devil and it’s mother fuckin’ magical. Even so, I aim to punch him in the throat. I wasn’t gonna do much damage, was just gonna let him know what toes the line, but his hand wraps around my curled wrist and my bicep tenses. I’m straining to reach him. Straining to infect him, however somewhere in the tangle of that violence dance I strained also for his mouth like an addict for a needle. A taboo puppet. A homicidal angel, like he once called me before I spit in his eye earning my face into the wall.

What even are we doing, Roy Harper ? Why do we do this ? And why does it feel so right to scream your name into the hush of a blacked out room while you turn me inside out ? I’d ring God on the manner, but fuck—I just start pissing myself with laughter each time I start.

Gotta love this shade of grey I’ve established my life in the thick of. Grey is the blueprint of a soul caught in limbo. It’s a nice color. The ambiance is sedated, disrupted here and there by the tortured hollar of a condemned conscience—but life ain’t no fucking picnic.

Then again, even a tongue tied fool knows that.

……

I can feel the frayed corners of ultimate reality beginning to shimmer. Roy watches me rising high even while knowing that soon I’ll crash, we will, together. And it’s so gorgeous for just a second that I could die like this. I know that it gets old hearing others romanticize death, yet I serious in the face of it. Serious and deeply, deeply in enamoured. Swept upon sandy beaches as to evade the lusting leviathan of the sea again and again. But I just wade back into the waters, deluded at times. Something like a drunk falling around town with an empty bottle of gin; everyone stares but no one will give directions to the nearest pub.

The vast gulf of the abyss beckons nearer with breath peppered by wanderlust and saliva spiked in moonshine. I can only take so much, however I’m forced, and so gorge on this easy feast.

Has a human ever been so unsteady and yet resistant ? So crippled and yet defiant ? I have many bones to pick with myself. I’ve splintered the masterpiece of my life into something ugly.

But I am a beast, aren’t I? And a Beast has always been one to see the Beauty in crude things. There is peace in the bloodstains, there is marvelous enrichment in the grimace of the faces. Cut me deeper Roy, squeeze red from my flesh so to let me continue my artistry. Open up the brushes of my fingers with your fangs and allow this woeful composer to create something for us both to laugh at.

Each finger in my mouth taste like pure sin. They scrape my gums until lips go down onto mine; then the fingers are put back into place. I choke. He chuckles. Fucking bastard.

Through these eyes of mine white with carnal tears, I look up and into the face of the man I didn’t mean to fall in love with wearing my blood upon his lips like a god damned badge of honor.

There’ll be no victor at the end of this unchaste warfare and I feel the cannon fires terminal blow. Yup. that’s my fucked up heart. What a tool.  

But it’s been this way for centuries, hasn’t it ?

Sensuality is the baddest of bitches with hips that carve into yours tastefully. She’s the perfect fusion of warm and wanton that leaves you so powerfully drugged, that when you turn over to sleep soundly for having seen Nirvana it’s self, she’s able to hijack your shit with ease. Now your ass is left high and dry. But hey, you gotta relish her; notably on the day you find Sensuality knocking at your door again for having conceived with you a child named Regret, something that she drops off for you to raise alone. Now you’re in solitary as Regret clings to you tightly, sucking the life from your chest, but yet, still you nourish it. You love it because shit, it’s half of Sensuality isn’t it ? And had she not once been your reason worth living ?

I twist my fingers around Roy’s cross necklace still finding a way to glint silver in the dark, and pull him down into me with a grunt. For once, it’s his eyes that are glossed with hysterical fever, swimming and asphyxiated by all 7 of the Deadly Sins.

Yeah. That’s right fucker. At least for tonight, “You’re mine.”

Was that his whine that I heard ? Unquestionable was his moan. I think I hear him praying, but that doesn’t change the fact that come sunrise

We’ll both be waking up alone;

the bruises I left on his neck the only souvenirs of my Love.

[gwenpaint-blog]

==> Candy coatings

The trickstering of Paint and Karkat

@theuniverseisher @croupiergin

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Last Saturday at 9:45 PM

This is a bad day to be you. You being Gwen Paint, nurse of the Midnight Crew. You admit that this is partly your fault for panicking, but it didn't help that the grunt who'd agreed to go with you to restock the pantry had up and vanished. After being ditched and the sky going nuts and being told to run, you'd gotten into a rather big bit of trouble. The man chasing you had a knife and even though you'd thrown your money to him he still pursued. He laughed and talked of selling off  your meat. You'd managed to get out of his line of sight long enough to hide behind some garbage cans and send a frantic text before turning it off so the buzz wouldn't give give you away. He's walking around the alleyway, calling "Come out little piggy. You're not escaping going to market!" Oh dear Frog! He's getting closer! The garbage cans are pushed aside as you pull out the gun you were given and take aim. 

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Last Saturday at 9:55 PM

"NOT THAAAAT'S NOT NIIIICE~" You arrive in a shimmer of starlight, the alleyway warping around you as you materialize behind the would-be mugger.  The man turns with a confused shout, and then you're on him, quick as a flash.  You just love how he squirms as you tickle and kiss him, and you love even more the pretty red stains he leaves behind on the floor and down your dress and iin your mouth! Slurp!  So sweet. You stand to full attention once more and you beam brightly at the frightened miss with the gun. "THERE YOU ARE, SWEET GIRL~"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Last Saturday at 10:02 PM

You stare up at her, gun trembling in your hands. Even in this state, she is an impressive and majestic figure. You've never seen the black queen, Snowman, before, but you don't doubt this is the regal queen of the felt whom you've been avoiding online. This is not who you'd hoped might rescue you. And to top it off, you've just watched your attacker get torn open by her. You panic screams at you to run, but what's to keep you from ending up like him? She's the universe, so shooting her is not an option. You lower the gun and offer a nervous trembling smile as you slowly stand. "Th-thank you for saving me.... Your m-majesty, yes?..." you say, praying to make it out of this alive.(edited)

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Last Saturday at 10:07 PM

"YES INDEEDY DO, SWEET PEACH~" You float over to the poor trembling thing and you take her sweet, soft face into your hands, coating her in that sweet red as well.  When you give her cheeks a pinch and a pull, they aren't quite so loose and elastic as Scratch's before, and you can feel the hard shell of a carapace below.  How cute!!! You smile wide and say, as you continue playing with her cheeks,  "AND WHO MIGHT YOU BE, SWEET SNOWCONE?"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Last Saturday at 10:13 PM

"G-Gwen Paint...." you're used to blood. You're not used to blood being smeared on to your face and you feel a little ill. The pinching hurts a fair amount, but you bare with it and keep your nervous smile. "S-seems to be an interesting n-night..." you attempt to converse. Hopefully if she takes a liking to you you'll walk away okay. Your more pessimistic side whispers to you 'Not a chance.'

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Last Saturday at 11:29 PM

"GWEN PAINT~ PAINT PAINT PAINT I LOVE PAINTING DO YOU LIKE TO PAINT?"  You begin to paint little flowers and stars across her sweet pale face, a hum in your throat as you create your art.   Your head bops this way and that as though you're dancing along with an unheard song, and you say, "IT SURE IS~ IT'S SO LOVELY AND EXCITING, ISN'T IT~?"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Last Saturday at 11:35 PM

You do your very best to still your trembling as she works on your face. Smiling a little more sincerely, you say, "Yes, I love to paint... I um... have my sketchbook if you'd like to see..." you offer hoping to distract her from all the blood she's painting on your face. Keep her happy. Keep her happy. If you're amusing you can live maybe is what you repeat to yourself again and again.

October 14, 2018

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 12:14 AM

Your eyes light up and you beam widely, and you clap your hands and give a twirl!! "OH YES, PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE WITH A CHERRY ON TOP, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE~~~"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 12:20 AM

Pulling out your sketchbook, you open it to some of the little watercolor paintings you'd done. Lots of flowers and a few portraits of yourself and other crew members.  You offer it to her saying, "I'm still practicing always, but I'm pretty proud of these..." Maybe conversing is becoming easier the longer you're not getting disemboweled, or there's something else at work in making you feel less in danger...

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 1:03 AM

You sidle up close--real close--to the good Miss Paint, your arms slung around her neck in an all-too-familiar hug.  You peer down intto her sketchbook and you smile and coo, giving her an excite squeeze at each new painting you're shown.  "OHHH, GWENNY GWEN YOU'RE SO GOOD AT THIS~!! OH MY GOODNESS YOU SHOULD PAINT MY PICTURE TOO!! YOU SHOULD, OH YES, PLEASE, WOULD YOU~?"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 1:09 AM

"Oh, certainly... I don't have my paints with me here, but I can create the sketch?" you offer, hoping she's not going to be disappointed that you can't paint for her exactly. But maybe this is your chance? "If I can get home I can get my paints and meet back with you..." you offer, doing your best to not make it eager sounding. Just an offer, there if she wants it. Wow she is really close to you... You've only had people this close to you recently and that was people you'd gotten to know. If you'd ever heard of the word, scaroused you'd be confident that you are that in this moment. Maybe that's the effect of queens.

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 8:03 PM

"OHHH, BUT I DON'T WANT YOU TO LEAVE~!!!" Your arms squeeze around her and you pull her close, squashing her face rather brazenly against your bosom.  You pout down at her, though you can't even fake that expression for long before you're all smiles again.  "PLEASE DON'T LEAVE~ I WANT TO SPEND SO MUCH TIME WITH YOU!!"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 8:07 PM

You're squished against her and your sketchbook is smashed against your chest as you nose is plunged into her own chest. You can't even speak, not only from anxiety, nerves and panic, but also also because you face is enveloped in boobs. You make a little panicked sound.

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 8:13 PM

You've got her pinned there, and you know, she is just the prettiest thing! Even if her shell's all wrong, this hair of hers is the prettiest red you have ever, ever seen!!  You lean in and nuzzle your face against the top of it and you say, "PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE, I THINK I SHOULD LIKE TO KISS YOU VERY MUCH NOW~ YOU'RE SUCH A GOOD FRIEND AND A SWEET FRIEND AND I BET YOU TASTE LIKE MARSHMALLOWS~"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 8:17 PM

"K-k-k-k-kiss?!" you squeak as you pull away only long enough to get in that one stuttering word. Oh Frog... What happens if you tell her no? You remember what the Inspector told you about the infectious nature of this madness and you are terrified. You can't help it, you're trembling again as she holds you and nuzzles your hair. Of all the days to have gone out for groceries...

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 8:49 PM

WELL you take that as a yes! With careful and loving and bloody, oh so very bloody!, hands, you tilt Gwen's head upward and you press your lips to hers in a loving kiss! It's just as you suspected--she does taste like Marshmallows~

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 8:57 PM

Your face is being moved again and your brain hardly processes it as her lips are pressed to yours. As your mind catches up, you make a muffled sound of surprise into her mouth. Then you feel it, creeping, crawling, seeping and oozing through you. Like sweet sweet happy happy sugar melting off her lips and into your mouth and filling you from head to toe! You start to smile into the kiss and drop your sketchbook as your hands rise to softly cup her cheeks. You start to giggle wildly and pull away long enough to say, "Well isn't this the BEST first kiss a girl could ask for~!!!" Then you smash your lips on hers again, seeking the sweet sweet candy that is her. You need it so so much. She's so so so amazing at kissing. Wow, wow, WOW!!!

Nyssa (Karkat)Yesterday at 9:04 PM

Your name is KARKAT VANTAS AND BOY ARE YOU PISSED!! You heard that Paint was in trouble and went with Hearts as soon as possible to help her. Once you're near her last known location, you hear yelling and sounds of struggle, and absolutely book it in front of Uncle Hearts. Smart? No. But you are not smart. You see Snowman macking on Paint and before your brain can realize what that means you howl in fury and run towards them, shoving them apart and Paint behind you. "You stay away from her!" You yell to basically a deity, and then your brain catches up. "...Fuck." You turn and yep, That's A Trickster. Mother FUCKER.

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 9:09 PM

"YOUR FIRST KISS~?? OHH, I AM SO HONORED TO HAVE IT~" You dive back into her seeking lips happily, and oh, you could just die here like this!  Your hands are starting to move to locations Most unchaste when a shout brings your attention up and away!  Though you're loathe to break away from that kiss, and indeed, it is a struggle to, you turn your head to stare and Smile at Karkat at the mouth of the alley! "MY MY, MYMYMY HELLO THERE~!!"  You're holding onto Paint, but you take a step forward, your heel digging into the messy remnants of the man you decimated before with an audible squish.  You're smiling brightly, and your teeth are still covered in his blood.  "AND WHO MIGHT YOU BE, CUTIE~???"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 9:14 PM

Oh wow! OH WOW! You love her hands! You love how she touches you! But oh now she's paused and turned away. But then you see why and you're just so HAPPY! You beam at Karkat. You're so so happy to see him! "Karkat! Karkat it's you!!!" you yell as you hug him tightly and rub your cheek against his. "I was in so so much trouble and Ms Snowman saved my life~!!!" you say joyfully. Ehehe... That squish sound is funny. Ehehehe....

Nyssa (Karkat)Yesterday at 9:17 PM

"Oh, fuck me running." Is all you're able to say before you're being gently and fondly squished by miss Paint's admittedly EXTREMELY soft cheeks. No. No, don't get distracted!!! "Oh, did she? Uhhh. Hello, miss Snowman." You feel embarrassed. She's...you know. And you're......you know. Even as a crazed trickster she's so much more than you. "Thanks for taking care of Miss Paint."

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 9:20 PM

You clap your hands excitedly as you float up and give a twirl in the air, hands tucked under your chin as you float in close--real close.  Why, now YOU'RE cheek to cheek with Karkat as well!! What soft skin he has! So warm! "SO YOOOOU'RE KARKAT~ HELLO, DARLING, IT'S SOOOO GOOD TO FINALLY MEET YOU!!! YOU'RE SO MUCH CUTER THAN I COULD HAVE EVER DREAMED!!!"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 9:24 PM

"Isn't he just?!" you agree vehemently. You continue to hug him cheek pressed to cheek as you say, "Karkat is one of my very BEST friends! He's got the BEST tastes in movies and books too!" You reach your hands to Snow and squish Karkat between the two of you as you add her to the hug.

Nyssa (Karkat)Yesterday at 9:25 PM

Well now you're fucking blushing on top of being squished between, let's be frank here, boobs. You are too damn short to not be smooshed into tits right now. You clear your throat and make feeble attempts to move. "Well! If...you're okay, Paint, that's great! I was worried. I should. Go??"

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 9:47 PM

"NO~" You take Paint's hand and squeeze it gently, before looping your other arm around the boy and her and gather them both in a tight, floating hug! All of them, floating! Just a little, just a foot off the ground now, but oh, you just can't help it!! You say, "PLEASE, NO, STAY~!! WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU HERE WITH US~"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 9:55 PM

You giggle in delight as you float. It's so nice to float and you love it~! "Don't leave Karkar~ That would be so sad!" you plead making bright green puppy eyes at him. You want your best BEST friend to see how happy you are and maybe he'll want to be happy too!

Nyssa (Karkat)Yesterday at 9:59 PM

Why, in this godforsaken timing, can you only think of "cursed" in your stupid, useless brain. Anyone else would have been able to get out of this. Anyone else wouldn't have even gotten INTO this. Fuck. "Er....I.........Guess I have to because we are in fact, floating in the air and I am not blessed with blood powers."

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 10:15 PM

You laugh and you say, "WE'RE NOT FLOATING VERY FAR, YOU KNOW~ IF I DROPPED YOU NOW, YOU WOULDN'T HURT..." You then float Much further up in the sky, above the two story next to you, and then you say, "BUT IF I DROPPED YOU FROM HEEEERE....~"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 10:19 PM

Oh wow this is so so fun!!! But you do hold Karkat tighter just in case. He is your BEST friend after all and you'd never let anything happen to him! "It's so so pretty up her Ms Snowman!!! I wanna kiss you up here~!!!" you squeal in delight.

Nyssa (Karkat)Yesterday at 10:20 PM

"Oh lord. Yep. Yep, I would fucking straight up die because I am not fancy at all, I am in fact rather mortal." To your utter mortification, you have to cling on both of them because AAAAAAAAAA!!!! "I don't wanna get in between your sugary makeouts, haha"

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 10:29 PM

"NO SUCH THING, KARKAT~ KARKAAAAT, KITTY, KARKITTY~ SEE, BECAUSE, I WANT TO KISS PAINT AGAIN, IT'S TRUE--" You turn your face to stare at him, nearly eye-to-fucking-eye now.  "BUT YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE BETTER?? KISSING THE BOTH OF YOU, RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW!!"

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 10:32 PM

More of your giggles fill the air as Snow speaks. Wow she really just has all the best ideas! "You'll like it Karkat~! She's a great kisser! So so great~!" you declare. "You should say yes. Yes, yes, YES~!!!" And if he said yes to Snow, maybe he'd say yes to you too!

Nyssa (Karkat)Yesterday at 10:35 PM

"Uhhhhhhhh" What fucking choice do you even have? If you bore her she might drop you despite Gwen's death grip on you, and you aren't joking about not living long through a fal like that. You take a deep breath. "......Fuck it. Sure."

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 10:37 PM

You gasp with delight, even though you never once doubted that he would say no! I mean, who says no to KISSES??? You sure as hell wouldn't!  So when he says sure, why, you dive right in to press a kiss to the corner of his lips, leaving enough room for Paint to get in on this good good kiss boy too!

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 10:39 PM

He said yes! He said yes!!!! You join Snow in the kiss and it is so so sweet! You hope Karkat is tasting all that sweetness like you are!

Nyssa (Karkat)Yesterday at 10:41 PM

You don't have very long to think about what a nightmare your life is right now, because you are being kissed. And, yeah, you've been kissed before but it's never been quite so...electric. Or probably not electric but more like your body is going into septic shock from the sudden rush of candy. This is it. This is how you die. You kiss back, giggling at both of them.

Carro (DD/08/WQ)Yesterday at 11:05 PM

Oh, you're so delighted, you could just scream! The three of you, kissing and twirling and floating in the air, together!! Ohh, what a dream come true, that you didn't even know you had until just now!!  You continue to float through the air as you make out ever-higher into the technicolor sky!

Lissa (Paint/Feferi/Kanaya)Yesterday at 11:10 PM

You kiss them both in delight before throwing your head back and whooping loudly into the sky! It's getting harder to breath but isn't that just so NEAT?!

Nyssa (Karkat)Yesterday at 11:13 PM

When you pull from kissing you're so lovely and sparkly and openly wearing all your hearts right on your sleeves! You beam at them both and cling to their hands, interwining their fingers and kissing the backs of both. You are nothing if not a romantic after all! "You're both INCREDIBLE!"

[live4thelord]

Why the Road to Hell Is Wide and Many Walk on It

In the gospels there is a warning from Jesus that too many people just brush aside:

Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few (Matt 6:12-13).

I have commented at some length in the past on the serious problem of universalism (the notion that nearly everyone goes to Heaven). I will not create another post on that topic just now, but you can read one of those older posts here: Hell is for real and not rare.

To summarize, most people today have the teaching backwards. Whereas Jesus said that many are on the road to destruction and only a few travel the narrow road (of the cross) to salvation, most claim that many go to Heaven and only a few (if any) go to Hell. Don’t make that mistake. Jesus is not playing games with us. No one loves us more than Jesus does, and no one warned us more of judgment and Hell than He did. Even though He didn’t provide exact percentages for each category, do not try to make many mean few and few mean many.

An obvious question to ask is why so many walk the wide road to destruction and Hell. Is it because God is stingy or despotic? No. God wants to save us all (Ez 18:23; 1 Tim 2:4). The real answer is that we are hard to save, and we must become more sober about that. We have hard hearts, thick skulls, and innumerable other traits that make us a difficult case.

If a third of the angels fell, that ought to make us very aware of our own similar tendency to do so. This should make us humbler about our own situation. The fallen angels had intellects vastly superior to ours, and their angelic souls were not weighed down with the many bodily passions that beset us—but still, they fell!

Adam and Eve, possessing preternatural gifts and existing before all the weaknesses we inherited from sin, also fell. Are we, in our present unseemly state and vastly less gifted than the angels, really going to claim that we are not in any real danger or that we are easy to save?

We need to sober up and run to God with greater humility, admitting that we are a hard case and in desperate need of the medicines and graces that God offers. He offers us His Word, the sacraments, holy fellowship, and lots of prayer! We need not panic, but we do need to be far more urgent than most people are about themselves and those they love.

Consider some of the following things that make us difficult to save:

We have hard hearts and stubborn wills. While some of what this includes is specified in more detail below, this is a good place to begin. God, speaking to us through Isaiah the Prophet, said, I know that you are obstinate, and your neck is an iron sinew and your forehead is bronze(Is 48:4). He is talking about us!

We are obtuse in our desires. If something is forbidden, we seem to want it all the more. St. Paul laconically observed, When the commandment came, sin sprang to life (Rom 7:9). If something is harmful, we want it in abundance, but if it is helpful, we are often averse to it. We like our sweets and our salty snacks, but vegetables rot in the refrigerator. In the desert the people of Israel longed for melons, leeks, onions, and the fleshpots they enjoyed in Egypt. Never mind that they were slaves. When it came to the Bread from Heaven, the Holy Manna, they said, We are disgusted with this wretched manna (Num 21:5). We are obtuse; that is, we are turned outward toward sin instead of inward toward God in a Holy embrace. Jesus sadly remarked that judgment would go poorly for many because The light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed (Jn 3:19).

We don’t like to be told what to do. Even if we know we ought to do something or to stop doing something, the mere fact that someone is telling us often makes us either dig in our heels and refuse, or else comply resentfully rather than wholeheartedly.

We are not docile. When we were very young, we were fascinated with the world around us and kept asking, “Why, Mommy?” or “Why, Daddy?” As we got older, our skull thickened; we stopped asking why. We figured we knew better than anyone around us. The problem just worsens with age, unless grace intervenes. St Paul lamented, For the time will come when people will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths (2 Tim 4:3-5).

We love distraction and don’t listen. Even when saving knowledge is offered to us, we are too often tuned out, distracted, and resistant. ADHD is nothing new in the human family. God said through Jeremiah, To whom shall I speak and give warning, that they may hear? Behold, their ears are uncircumcised, they cannot listen; behold, the word of the LORD is to them an object of scorn; they take no pleasure in it (Jeremiah 6:10). Jesus invoked Isaiah to explain why He spoke to the crowds only in parables: For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed (Is 6:10).

We are opinionated. We tend to think that something is true or right merely because we think it or agree with it. There is nothing wrong with having opinions, even strong ones, about what is right and true, but if God’s Word or the Church’s formal teaching challenges your opinion, you’d better consider changing it or at least making distinctions. The last time I checked, God is just a little smarter than we are. His official teaching in the Scripture and the Doctrine of the Church is inspired; we are not. Scripture says, All we, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way (Is 55:8). Can the pot say to the potter, “You know nothing”? (Is 29:16) Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, “What are you making?” (Is 45:9) Despite this, many go on with their own opinions and will not abide even the clear correction of God.

We have darkened intellects due to unruly and dominating passions. Our strong and unruly passions cloud our mind and seek to compel our will. Too easily, without training and practice in virtue, our baser faculties come to dominate our higher faculties, making unreasonable demands for satisfaction. We love to tell ourselves lots of lies. We suppress the truth and our senseless minds become darkened (Romans 1:21). The Catechism says, The human mind … is hampered in the attaining of … truths, not only by the impact of the senses and the imagination, but also by disordered appetites which are the consequences of original sin. So it happens that men in such matters easily persuade themselves that what they would not like to be true is false or at least doubtful (CCC #37). The Second Vatican Council, in Lumen Gentium 16, says, But very often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasoning and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.

We are lemmings. We are too easily swayed by what is popular. We prefer modern notions to ancient and tested wisdom. Tattoos, tongue bolts, and piercings are in? Quick, run out and get one! Whatever the fad or fashion, no matter how foolish, harmful, or immodest, many clamor for it. Hollywood stars get divorces and soon enough everyone is casting aside biblical teaching against it. The same goes for many other moral issues. What was once thought disgraceful is now paraded on Main Street and celebrated. Like lemmings, we run along with the crowd to celebrate what was once called sin (and is still sinful). Instead of following God, we follow human beings. We follow them and the “culture” they create, often mindlessly.

We live in a fallen world, governed by a fallen angel, and we have fallen natures. Many seem to abide all of this quite well and make a nice little home here in this world.

If all this isn’t enough, consider a “few” others: We are so easily, in a moment, obnoxious, dishonest, egotistical, undisciplined, weak, impure, arrogant, self-centered, pompous, insincere, unchaste, grasping, harsh, impatient, shallow, inconsistent, unfaithful, immoral, ungrateful, disobedient, selfish, lukewarm, slothful, unloving, uncommitted, untrusting, indifferent, hateful, lazy, cowardly, angry, greedy, jealous, vengeful, prideful, envious, contemptuous, stingy, petty, spiteful, indulgent, careless, neglectful, prejudiced, and just plain mean.

So, if the road to destruction is wide (and Jesus says it is), don’t blame God. The road is wide for reasons like these. We are a hard case; we are hard to save. It is not that God lacks power; it is that we refuse to address many of these shortcomings. God, who made us free, will not force us to change.

We ought not to kid ourselves into thinking that we can go on living resistant and opposed to the Kingdom of God and its values, yet magically at death we will suddenly want to enter His Kingdom, which we have resisted our whole life. Jesus said that many prefer the darkness. Is it really likely that their preference will suddenly shift? Will not the glorious light of Heaven seem harsh, blinding, and even repulsive to them? In such a case is not God’s “Depart from me” both a just and merciful response? Why force a person who hates the light to live in it? I suppose it grieves God to have to abide such a departure, but to force a person to endure Him must be even more difficult. I am sure it is with great sadness that God accepts a person’s final no.

Yes, the road is wide that leads to destruction. It is wide because of us. The narrow road is the way of the cross, which is a stumbling block and an absurdity to many (1 Cor 1:23), who simply will not abide its message.

So, we ought to be sober about the Lord’s lament. We ought also to be more urgent in our attempts to secure our own unruly soul and the souls of those we love for the Kingdom. The blasé attitude of most moderns is rooted in the extremely flawed notion that judgment and Hell are not real issues. That is a lie, for it contracts Jesus’ clear word.

Why is the road to destruction wide? Because we are hard cases; we are difficult to save. We ought not to be unduly fearful, but we ought to run to Jesus in humility and beg Him to save us from our worst enemy—our very self. If you don’t think you’re a hard case, read the list above and think again.

[fevie168]

Friday (June 16):  "If your eye causes you to sin"

Scripture:  Matthew 5:27-32  

27 "You have heard that it was said, `You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.  29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body  be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole  body go into hell.  31 "It was also said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'  But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Meditation: What does Jesus mean when he says "pluck out your eye" or "cut off your hand and throw it away" if it leads you to sin? Is he exaggerating here? Jesus used forceful language to urge his disciples to choose for life - an enduring life of joy and happiness with God - rather than for death - an unending death and total separation from a community of love, peace, joy and friendship with God. Jesus set before his disciples the one goal in life that is worth any sacrifice and that goal is the conformity of our will with God and what he desires for our well-being and happiness with him. Just as a doctor might remove some part of the body, such as a diseased limb, in order to preserve the life of the whole body, so we must be ready to part with anything that causes us to sin and which inevitably leads to spiritual death.

The great stumbling block - bad example Jesus warns us of the terrible responsibility that we must set no stumbling block in the way of another, that is, not give offense or bad example that might lead another to sin. The young in faith are especially vulnerable to the bad example of those who should be passing on the faith. Jesus teaches that righteousness involves responding to every situation in life in a way that fulfill's God's law, not just externally but internally as well. Jesus says that evil desires spring from the heart. That is why the sin of adultery must first be dealt with in the heart, the place not only of the emotions, but the mind, will, thought, and intentions as well.

God's intention from the beginning God’s intention and ideal from the beginning was for man and woman to be indissolubly united in marriage as “one flesh” (see Genesis 2:23-24). That ideal is found in the unbreakable union of Adam and Eve. They were created for each other and for no one else. They are the pattern and symbol for all who were to come. Moses permitted divorce as a concession in view of a lost ideal (see Mark 10:2-9). Jesus sets the high ideal of the married state before those who are willing to accept his commands. Jesus gives the grace and power of his Holy Spirit to those who seek to follow his way of holiness in their state of life - whether married or single.

The power to live a holy life If we want to live righteously as God desires for us, then we must know and understand the intention of God's commands for us, and decide in our heart to obey the Lord. Through the gift and working of the Holy Spirit, the Lord writes his law on our hearts and gives us his power to live his way of righteousness and holiness. Do you trust in God’s love and allow his Holy Spirit to fill you with a thirst for holiness and righteousness in every area of your life?

"Lord Jesus, begin a new work of love within me. Instill in me a greater love and respect for your commandments. Give me a burning desire to live a life of holiness and righteousness. Purify my thoughts, desires, and intentions that I may only desire what is pleasing to you and in accord with your will."

Psalm 116:12-17

12 What shall I render to the LORD for all his bounty to me? 13 I will lift up the cup of salvation and call on the name of the LORD, 14 I will pay my vows to the LORD in the presence of all his people. 15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints. 16 O LORD, I am your servant; I am your servant, the son of your handmaid.  You have loosed my bonds. 17 I will offer to you the sacrifice of thanksgiving and call on the name of the LORD.

Daily Quote from the early church fathers: The fuel of adultery, by Chromatius (died 406 AD)

"Because adultery is a serious sin and in order to uproot it, lest our conscience be defiled, he [Jesus] forbade even lust, which is the fuel of adultery. According to the words of blessed James in his epistle, 'Lust when it has conceived gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown brings forth death' (James 1:15). The Holy Spirit speaks concerning this to David: 'Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock' (Psalm 137:9). The symbolism here is that the blessed and truly evangelical person roots out the desires and lust of the flesh arising from human weakness. He does this immediately before they grow, at the onset, through faith in Christ who has been described as a rock" (1 Corinthians 10:4) (excerpt from TRACTATE ON MATTHEW 23.1.6–7)

[automatismoateo]

My extremely religious Mormon father read through my JOURNALS. via /r/atheism

Submitted February 19, 2020 at 05:52PM by imreallytryingdis (Via reddit https://ift.tt/38SIshL) My extremely religious Mormon father read through my JOURNALS.

***sexual repression; brainwashing; lingering issues

Last night, I couldn’t find my passport. It’s expired but I needed it for a renewal and in my scramble to maybe find it, I lugged one of my big memento boxes from my kid’s room and opened it on the kitchen floor.

Soon I was laughing and sharing the items inside with my SO and then I got to my journals. I kept many journals for years. I was the classic “boy-crazy” girl from a strict religion and my posts entailed two week “updates” on my life in high school, college and after my mormon mission. Since I left the church a few years ago, THIS box was in my parents possession for many years and since I have lots of siblings, I assumed my stuff was left alone as the stuff belonging to my siblings. **I stopped keeping a journal when I left the church, it all seemed unnatural by then and I chose to live life fully each day instead.

But as I was reading entries out loud to my spouse, I came upon MARKINGS in my journals. Beside a certain story of my feeling shame and guilt (as usual because I was raised to feel daily guilt for ANYTHING I had done wrong or may have done or thought to “chased away the spirit of the lord”)... beside a story was my dad’s handwriting and it says “THE CHURCH IS TRUE.”

I stop and realize, my father had read through my journals. I frantically start going through hundreds of pages and I keep seeing marks, arrows, little notes and sentences with certain pronouns are underlined. Mind you, THIS IS THE DRIBBLE OF A BOY CRAZY GIRL WHO NEVER DID ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF KISSING BEFORE MARRIAGE. In high school, my dad would punish me all the time for dating those he didn’t approve of and would constantly me accuse me of being “unchaste” and always asked me if I was still “morally clean.” This lead on to college, same old shame and hate for myself. I hated how boys would be turned on by me and i would feel dirty. I hated the sexual attention i got for my body and i held extreme standards and boundaries for YEARS, making some men feel ashamed of their natural reaction to our physical contact. For years I felt dirty for the fact I kissed a lot of boys in my life and by the time I got married, I was a dumpster fire of sexual repression that continued on for 8 yrs in marriage before I got help.

I spent years afraid of the judgement of my dad. In college, I went to a school 1000s miles away and when he would call, my blood pressure would sky rocket even though he knew nothing personal in my life across the ocean. I was always answering to him even after kids, he would call and criticize how I was raising the kids and etc. So, when I left my religion and got therapy, rebuilt my marriage and myself, I stopped caring what my parents thought. They went CRAZY when i resigned from the church and their behavior was so verbally abusive, I cut them off for 7 months because they threatened me by saying my kids were also “their blood” and how dare I prevent them from the “gospel.” They are mormon crazy to a T but to invade my privacy? I didnt know he would stoop so low.

So now I know he read through my journals to critique my choices and character and use them as examples to see when I was being good and righteous VS. when I was being myself but young and naive. Don’t know if I’m overreacting but I am very hurt he would disregard my privacy and still treat me like I’m a failure since I’ve chosen to bring up my little family “in the sinful world.” When I read those journals, I just feel intense sadness that I hated myself for so long. Punished myself mentally and emotionally for being a teen with natural hormones and for giving my husband a bad sexual life for years because of what my father taught me: anything outside of appropriate sexual acts, everything else is wrong and the lord doesn’t approve of it. I want to burn those books but I keep them to show my children what religion does to the brain and development of innocents.

***I realize that just because people know MORE about you, doesn’t mean they’ll like or understand you more. Some people invade your personal to weaponize it against you.

Rant over. Just saddened and disappointed. AND I NEVER DID FIND THAT GODDAMN PASSPORT

[asafeatherwould]

What Qualifies You For An Annulment?

Annulment laws vary a great deal from state to state. The guidelines for resolutions of impediment are particularly confused on the grounds that they depend on state law, yet in addition on the explanation you’re approaching the court for a dissolution. Contingent upon your conditions, you may have a constrained time frame to utilize this choice or you may have a lifetime – yet just if your mate doesn’t predecease you.

Void Marriages

Void relationships don’t lawfully exist in any case – they’re illegal in many states. They incorporate forbidden relationships, for example, in the event that you wedded somebody firmly identified with you by blood. They additionally incorporate bigamous or polygamous relationships, where it is possible that you or your companion was hitched to another person at the hour of your wedding, regardless of whether you knew about it. You can for the most part invalidate these relationships as long as both you and your mate are living, since they were never legitimate by any stretch of the imagination.

Voidable Marriages

Voidable relationships are lawful, yet so imperfect that the law says they shouldn’t be perceived. On the off chance that your life partner deceived or constrained you into wedding, on the off chance that you or your mate didn’t comprehend what you were doing at the time because of mental weakening, or on the off chance that one of you is barren, these are largely voidable relationships and annullable in many states.

Notwithstanding, resolutions of restriction for revoking voidable relationships can run from a couple of months to quite a while, contingent upon your state’s laws. The time period for the most part starts with the date you found out about the condition that makes your marriage voidable. In Colorado, you have just a half year if your life partner deceived or constrained you into the marriage, however a year if your life partner is weak. California permits you four years in these conditions, however you have just two years in Ohio to petition for revocation of a voidable marriage. On the off chance that you or your life partner was not of sound personality at the time you wedded, a few states enable you to petition for cancellation until one of you bites the dust.

Grounds for Annulment in Utah

An Annulment in Utah is a court action that declares a marriage void and dissolves the marriage. This means from a legal standpoint, the marriage is treated as if it never happened. In many cases an annulment is granted because the marriage was illegal. Some couples choose an annulment because it may be more socially acceptable or because their religion prohibits a divorce. Catholics are best known for seeking out annulments since the tenants of their religion prohibit or at least strongly discourage divorce. Couples sometimes marry under unlawful or questionable circumstances that could later lead to the need for an annulment. Also, some spouses might prefer annulment over divorce for personal or religious reasons. To obtain an annulment in Utah, spouses must meet the legal standard set by the state’s annulment laws. If a couple cannot qualify for an annulment in Utah, they have the option of bringing divorce proceedings.

A marriage may be annulled under Utah law if the marriage was prohibited or considered void. The following types of marriages are void under Utah Annulment Laws:

1. A party is presently married to someone else.

2. A party is under 18 years of ages, unless consent by a parent has been given.

3. A party is under 16 years of age.

4. A party is divorced but the decree has not become final.

5. The parties are the same sex.

6. Parties who are related to each other in certain degrees.

The following additional types of marriages have been ruled void under Utah common law:

1. Fraudulent inducement to marry.

2. Avoidance of procreation/failure to consummate.

3. Premarital unchastity.

4. Insanity.

5. Pregnancy not disclosed.

6. Severe duress.

7. Epilepsy.

8. Breach of ante nuptial agreement.

9. Mistake in identity.

10. Sexual incapacity.

11. Habitual Intoxication.

12. Racial, religious, or political differences.

13. Legal competency.

Things you should know about some of these grounds

It’s hard to get a marriage invalidated for extortion in Utah. The misrepresentation must be outrageous enough that the other life partner wouldn’t have gotten hitched if that companion thought about the extortion. In the event that a mate needs a dissolution for extortion, the misrepresentation must be legitimately identified with the marriage.

14. The legitimate age for marriage in Utah is 18; 16 with a parent’s assent, or 15 with a parent’s assent and court authorization. A marriage won’t be repealed in Utah for a life partner being underage if the companion had the best possible assent at the hour of marriage. A parent or gatekeeper can petition for cancellation for the underage companion’s sake. The court can in any case will not give an invalidation for an underage life partner if the judge trusts it is in the mate’s well being to remain wedded.

15. In request for distortion to give adequate grounds to dissolve a marriage in Utah, it must be deception of present actualities. For instance, in one Utah case, a spouse shrouded a criminal record and advised his significant other he needed to pay youngster bolster when truth be told, he was spending their cash on fines and compensation; his better half was allowed an invalidation.

How Do I Get an Annulment?

You request an annulment by filling a “Complaint for Annulment” in the district court of the county where either you or your spouse has lived for at least 90 days. The spouse filing for annulment is the “petitioner” and the other spouse is the “respondent.” Ask your district court clerk’s office if it has a sample forms you can use to file for annulment. See the “Resources” section below for a link to contact information for all Utah district courts.

Your complaint should give the full names for you and your spouse, as well as any minor children (under 18). You’ll need to state which spouse lives in the county where you’re filing. State the legal grounds for your annulment. Be sure to list all the things you need the court to address, such as child custody, visitation, child support, alimony, and property division. Ask your district court’s clerk’s office how to serve a copy of the complaint on your spouse.

Once your complaint has been filed and served on your spouse, the court will schedule a hearing. Bring any evidence or witnesses that can help prove your grounds for annulment to the hearing. If the judge believes you’ve proven your case, the judge will sign an order annulling your marriage.

Effect of an Annulment

An abrogation implies your marriage never existed. You were never legitimately hitched to your life partner once the marriage is invalidated. All things considered, the judge can in any case choose similar issues during an abrogation case as during a separation: authority, appearance, kid backing, divorce settlement, and property division.

Offspring of revoked relationships are viewed as authentic, which means they have indistinguishable rights from youngsters from substantial relationships. Real youngsters can acquire from either parent or reserve the option to be monetarily bolstered by the two guardians.

How Do You Qualified for Annulment in Utah?

Marriage annulment is legally possible in Utah but only if your marriage qualifies under certain conditions. Unfortunately, most couples are not able to meet the legal requirements to have their marriages annulled, and will instead need to consider a divorce.

How Does Annulment Differ from Divorce?

Annulment and divorce are both legal procedures for dissolving a marriage. Both procedures, once complete, return each party to single status with the ability to remarry.

The main difference between the two is that divorce simply ends the marriage, while annulment is a legal declaration that the marriage never existed. With an annulment, the marriage is erased, as if the two parties never married in the first place.

What Are the Grounds for an Annulment in Utah?

Many couples seek to have their marriages annulled for religious or financial reasons. Others prefer to avoid the social stigma associated with divorce. But in fact, annulment is not a viable option for most couples. The circumstances in which the courts will approve an annulment are extremely limited.

A marriage can be annulled if one spouse is under the legal age and does not have a parent’s consent, or if one spouse has a previous marriage that wasn’t legally ended prior to remarriage.

Incestuous marriages between close relatives can also be annulled. Misrepresentation, fraud or refusal to consummate the union also may be recognized by the court as valid legal causes to annul a marriage, although the burden of proof is onerous. Unlike some states, the length of the marriage is not grounds for annulment in Utah.

How Do You Obtain an Annulment in Utah?

The process for an annulment is similar to that for a divorce. You begin by filing a petition with the court, stating the legal grounds under which you believe your marriage is qualified to be annulled. This petition must contain all of the issues that the courts will address, including alimony, property division, and child custody and support. Because it can be difficult to obtain an annulment

Common-Law Grounds

Notwithstanding the grounds set up by rule, the Utah courts perceive different explanations behind conceding a dissolution. A state court can concede a dissolution on the off chance that one of the companions demonstrates distortion or trustworthiness with respect to an issue identified with marriage. For instance, a life partner may have lied about being single or having the option to have youngsters. A companion may likewise demand a revocation if the other life partner is reluctant to perfect the marriage through sexual relations.

The process-In expansion to the grounds built up by rule, the Utah courts perceive different purposes behind allowing a cancellation. A state court can concede an abrogation in the event that one of the mates demonstrates deception or deceitfulness with respect to an issue identified with marriage. For instance, a mate may have lied about being single or having the option to have youngsters. A companion may likewise demand a revocation if the other mate is reluctant to perfect the marriage through sexual relations.

The procedure to petition for invalidation in Utah is like the procedure required for a separation. However, in contrast to a separation, a dissolution does exclude a residency period that requires the applicant to have lived in Utah for a particular timeframe. The individual mentioning the cancellation must record the underlying grumbling, otherwise called the request, with the neighborhood household relations court. The protest may incorporate the applicant’s inclinations seeing lawful issues, for example, property division, kid authority, appearance, and budgetary help through provision or youngster support. The other life partner has a chance to record reaction papers. The abrogation doesn’t produce results until the court gives a last request giving the appeal.

To petition for cancellation in Utah is like the procedure required for a separation. However, in contrast to a separation, a cancellation does exclude a residency period that requires the applicant to have lived in Utah for a particular timeframe. The individual mentioning the abrogation must record the underlying objection, otherwise called the appeal, with the nearby residential relations court. The objection may incorporate the applicant’s inclinations seeing legitimate issues, for example, property division, youngster care, appearance, and money related help through divorce settlement or kid support. The other companion has a chance to document reaction papers. The abrogation doesn’t produce results until the court gives a last request conceding the appeal.

What Goes to the Essence of Marriage in Annulment Cases?

Annulment isn’t an easy fix for an “oops” marriage. In fact, it’s typically far simpler to get a divorce, because all states now recognize some form of no-fault grounds. An annulment is a ruling by the court that your marriage should never have existed in the first place, and it can be difficult to prove that. That is particularly true if you want to establish that your union is the result of something that went to the essence of the marriage.

Reasons an Annulment Will Be Approved

Annulment isn’t a quick and easy fix to a bad marriage, although it’s sometimes rumored to be. Much like fault-based divorces, you must prove certain grounds to the court before it will grant your request. These are lawfully satisfactory reasons why your marriage can’t or shouldn’t proceed. With all states presently perceiving no-deficiency divorces – where you don’t need to demonstrate bad behavior with respect to your life partner – getting the court to allow you a revocation is generally the more troublesome procedure.

Marriage Between Relatives

Most states restrict relationships between close relatives, now and then alluded to as association. North Carolina enables first cousins to wed. New York and Texas have explicit arrangements of relatives who can’t wed, including nieces, nephews, aunties and uncles. By and large, on the off chance that you and your mate share a blood relationship, the laws in numerous states consider your marriage void, which means it wasn’t legitimate in the first place in light of the fact that the law denies it. You don’t generally need court endorsement to dissolve a void marriage, however don’t accept this is valid in your state without looking for legitimate guidance.

Underage Life Partners

You regularly can’t get hitched without parental or court assent in case you’re not of legitimate age, however lawful age diffes from state to state. In North Carolina, wedding younger than 16 gives motivation to abrogation. In Ohio, the age is likewise 16, however just for young ladies; the law necessitates that guys be 18 years of age to wed. Underage relationships are normally voidable, not void, which is a significant contrast. With a voidable marriage, mates can remain lawfully wedded on the off chance that they consent to do as such. Accordingly, finishing a voidable marriage includes going to court and accepting an announcement or judgment that ends the association. At the point when mates are minors, their folks or gatekeepers can petition for revocation for their benefit.

Purposes Behind Disavowal

The most widely recognized explanation a court may deny an invalidation is on the grounds that you don’t have appropriate grounds. You should build up that something was so amiss with your conjugal association that it ought to never have occurred. In many states, grounds for the most part incorporate plural marriage, or the way that you or your mate was at that point hitched when you got married. Grounds likewise incorporate intimidation, if your life partner by one way or another constrained you into wedding, and extortion, in the event that he fooled you into wedding him. Kids under the period of assent can’t wed without a parent’s authorization in many states, so these relationships can be dissolved also. On the off chance that you got hitched on motivation when you were intensely affected by medications or liquor, your marriage is generally annullable. In opposition to mainstream thinking, the length of the marriage more often than not makes little difference to whether a court will abrogate it. A few states, for example, Florida, require you not to have had sexual relations with your accomplice after you understood that something about your marriage was generally off-base.

Alternatives To Annulment

Courts will for the most part deny an abrogation on the off chance that you neglect to demonstrate your grounds exist, and this can be a strenuous lawful procedure. Your life partner has the privilege to contend against your case. In case you’re denied an abrogation, or on the off chance that you would prefer not to attempt the test of attempting to get one, you can petition for no-deficiency separate. You don’t need to demonstrate no-flaw grounds under the watchful eye of a judge will allow you a separation, and your companion can’t challenge your no-shortcoming grounds. He can just challenge issues, for example, property division, guardianship or backing. In many locales, it is a lot simpler to get a separation than a cancellation.

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When you need an Annulment Lawyer in Utah, please call Ascent Law LLC (801) 676-5506 for your Free Consultation. We want to help you.

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Source: https://www.ascentlawfirm.com/what-qualifies-you-for-an-annulment/