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astralartefact · 1 year ago

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NieR Reincarnation The People and the World Amber Spoiler Post & Theory Hour

Mama on Mama on Mama on Mama in this one. And I'm going to look a little bit too deep into that. Far too deep actually.

What can I say. They did a good job with the shitty gacha game. I'm so sorry, but I am once again validated in my opinion that this is the best NieR writing right behind YoRHa:Dark Apocalypse. It's just. Chef's Kiss.

And sure, I still prefer Sun/Moon over People/World as a story since that one just managed to weave the themes so well with the stories and everything whereas this one has certain moments where it doesn't really line up with stuff it has already established (some/many of the stories kind of seem to disregard parts of their hidden/ex stories which feels weird, also where are hina and yuzuki in all of this as rogue cage wanderers, i have a feeling they're not going to address them at all (which imo would be fine but kind of disappointing)), but we're finally getting the lore payoff we know to expect from Drakenier and it feels so good.

And you know, I did notice that all the seasons so far were in two distinct parts that lined up with their name - and as this was obviously the The People part I was wondering before playing this morning what the The World part would be about. But it didn't even occur to me that we could be going to the "Real World"... (Put a Pin in that)

But let's get into it.

Mama meets Accord (who I'm sure somebody has called mommy before)

I mean at this point we know she's coming - we just don't know when and how. I do wonder if these more and more overt mentions of her might be setup for the next NieR/DoD4 because I feel like Accord as a character would be prime real estate for the new big game, but of course it would also make perfect sense for her to show up here, she already has an established presence in the Cage - and I mean she could just do both!

It's interesting to note btw that the coffer that Yudil's story explicitly points out has recently appeared in the most recent Bakuken stage play (the one that's called Finale even though it's not the final one) where a portuguese merchant (The Cathedral City is on the Iberian Peninsula) called Michael (you know, like the Dragon) had it. Of course, they might also just have reused the prop since they made one for the YoRHa stage play Accord appeared in...

Mama meets Mother

She's giving Mother and she's back with a vengeance rhythm game. Amazing. Tens across the board. I love her fascinator head piece.

As the Mother Expert that I call myself I have to point out some things here:

a) What exactly is Mother Mourning? The Watchers have up until now only been described as motivated by a fervent hate of Humanity and anger - the Gods want to claw themselves free of their humanity-imposed seals and devour the world - so why is this version explicitly shown as sad? Her battle dialogue also kind of sounds... betrayed in a way? "Why Protect People? Destroy" and "Our objective. Why?" seem to hint that maybe Mama (points right at the name) was in with Mother this whole time but has now turned against her. And it makes me wonder if the Cage is a way for humanity to enslave the gods they sealed for profit...

But also, given recent Developments in SinoAlice JP's Ending Arc, there's likely something else in the Cage that the Mourning Mother could be talking to. Maybe the thing we saw in that one cutscene is actually protecting humanity?

b) With some of that already in mind I was thinking about her pose and was trying to find some connection to the dance of her Intoner version in the DoD3 Final Boss when it occured to me in a one-two punch: She's shackled. The Cage is for Her. She's what is Caged. And doesn't that sound like a seal that keeps a certain Round Egg at bay that I have an exciting theory for-

Tangent: Mama meets my Round Egg Theory

okay so strap in because it's time to bring up the thing I bring up every chance I get!

We know there's a connection between the Memory Tree and the Moon Server Data through two things:

a) In the Replicant Remaster's new Ending Kainé goes into the Memory Tree's Data to bring Nier back - which of course means that the Memory Tree contains Nier's data. This is important because

b) In YoRHa:Dark Apocalypse (My Love <3) the Red Girls have a Seed (we'll get back to that in a second) - and out of that Seed grows a Tower that contains "Ego Collectives" of People, which is basically the collection of memories that makes up one person.

Now I know that everyone just handwaved that away as a way to have cheap Replicant references as the first two bosses with the Remaster coming up but lol wouldn't that be easy, did you forget who you're dealing with? Because the exact two bosses used (Knave of Hearts and Hänsel and Gretel) means there's only one person this Ego Collective could belong to: Nier, because only he fought Hänsel and Gretel. (let's ignore that Weiss was there too bc that would be a dumb!!! this is much more fun bc of the implications!!!)

And I'm positive that this was intentional because in the remaster ending - in a scene that's eerily similar to the fight in Tower at Paradigm's Breach - Kainé only fights her memory of Gretel without Hänsel, so they knew.

Why does that matter? It doesn't really, I just wanted to bring it up as a little fun fact, but what does matter is that Y:DA establishes that whatever that Seed the Red Girls have recreated is, it also contains all the memories from the Memory Tree, because that's where those memories were recorded. And they were recreating it, which implies there was a basis to recreate. And that was always the big future overarching NieR plot thread that Y:DA left me with - sure, we know this is where it all ends, the Watchers are over now and this time forever through collaboration and power of friendship - but how did we even get here? How did the Red Girls get a Seed to recreate?

And now it fits right in with what's happening, especially now that we know what exactly the Moon Server can do:

The Moon Server/The Cage can peer into different universes - we know that since at least Hina and Yuzuki (Yuzuki knows Reinkane exists as a game but also their EX stories) - but as far as we know the Seeds only exist in Drakengard's Universe. So why do the Red Girls/The Watchers/The Mourning Mother want to get into the Moon Server/Cage so Bad? (It was even sort of highlighted in the Automata Anime where Adam transformed into a giant Reincarnation Mob - implying really hard that the Red Girls/Logic Virus is indeed behind the attacks on the Cage) Well, maybe it's because they want the Round Egg, because they have been separated ever since DoD1's Final Boss and they need it to Dark Apocalypse.

Before this chapter I thought that the entire Memory Tree might have been built from Seeds in the first place and that's why the Red Girls want into the Moon Server to get a basis to copy - I thought it would make sense that humanity somehow got that dimension-crossing technology needed for it out of a Seed - but that would require the NieR world to have Seeds to use for that and we know next to nothing about them so I just kept it in the back of my mind until something else comes along to strengthen it. I also didn't want to base too much on the cross-over one, even if I personally really don't understand why people are so hesitant to call it canon, it's definitely canon, it's one of the few things Yoko Taro is directly credited to have written the past few years and he literally always writes stuff that right away retcons things, so even if it changes details with Automata he has done the exact same thing multiple times now. ("It's not DoD3's Ending A that leads to DoD1, it's the version of Ending A in this specific novella that's basically the same except for one small thing.")

But you know what other tangentially related thing I can bring up that you won't believe I will stuff into this theory? Why yes, It's Yuki Wada's Breakout Hit Voice of Cards: Forsaken Maiden. And fair warning, this is where it gets entirely unfounded. And also spoilers for that game's ending.

I have the long and well-documented theory that the Spirits from VoC:FM might be the Watchers. In that game Maidens need to sacrifice themselves to the Gods so they 'keep humanity save' in return - but it ends with Laty (the female MC) going into an eternal slumber to sort of 'trap' the gods in her everlasting dream so humanity is save without them. And because I always found that very reminiscent of Drakengard 1's Goddesses I theorized that VoC:FM might have been the folkloric 'inception story' of that system, humanity just reiterated on the mechanics of it so it's spread over multiple people instead of one so nobody has to go to sleep forever.

So with that as an foundational thought, what if humanity did that again? What if they extended it again on more people so fewer people have the sort of responsibility Laty or Furiae had? What if they didn't only extend it to a finite number of people - what if they extended it to every human in every dimension that ever experienced any form of prolonged misery (or whatever else the requirements are to end up in the cage lol)

So what if the Cage is the Seal? What if keeping the Seeds locked up is the purpose of the Cage? What if the Cage is a Cage?

And if the Cage is just NieR's Goddess Seals then the Watchers have a really good reason to get in there: The exact same reason as in Drakengard 1.

But I'm not done. Because what if Mama didn't know that. What if Mama just knew there's a server on the moon and basically every single person ever is trapped in it, eternally doomed to relive the most horrible pain and suffering imaginable for some reason - and some figure, a mother figure if you will, told her she could fix their suffering. That she could change the system for the better by giving them hope and respite by giving them an afterlife. But that was a lie. The figure just wanted her to weaken the system built on sin and suffering so she could break through it and reach the Seeds.

What if Mama (points at the name) realised she was tricked by Mother and is now trying to fix her mistakes? And that's why Mother is Mourning, because she betrayed her?

Don't think so. Mama didn't seem all that "remorseful". But maybe something along those lines though.

Depending on SinoAlice JP's ending whatever other being the Library turns out to be might also be involved - maybe the Library is a god that turned away from the Watchers to help humanity and the Cage is instead a way to protect the being that is the Library which in turn protects humanity... That would be a full circle moment to VoC:FM too...

Either way I'm so stoked to find out what's really happening!!!

Mama meets Mama in the Real World

Already talked alot about Mama, but let's just all applaud ourselves for reading the room! We did it! We knew!

Just as theorized she was 10H all along! Probably should go reread her story to see if it still lines up with what I theorized above... And she's pretty. And has almost the same haircut as Hina and Marie. Hmm. Maybe they should have chosen one of the other Marie designs.

(Small correction: I read that last scene wrong, seems like Mama isn't 10H but Pod 006 - but since the character we're getting is 10H I'll still say we were right :3 ...and yeah, we do control the pod in that scene, makes sense, don't know why I went straight to Mama has to be 10H)

What I'm actually more interested in though is where we're going with this. Like what can she even do in the "Real World", doesn't 10H die constantly in her story for disobedience? So she can't be allowed to do all of this, right? I do think a "We rebuild the Cage on Hopes and Dreams" is in order, but the way to get there... ah! Look, it's the Pin I made you keep in mind!

What if they don't go to that Real World. What if they go to our Real World? Hina & Yuzuki - who came from our or at least another Real World - are notably absent from this arc. And that could just be because the true ending being optional makes things harder for the devs to write around and they want the spotlight off of them bc they were the main characters, but still: I would love a chapter or even just a scene of their perspective of what happens to the Cage. I mean what happens to them now that the Cage falls apart? Could Dark Mama and Papa save them just like Mama did with the others? Do we maybe even meet Dark Mama's and Papa's real forms?

But there's another character that immediately comes to my mind when we talk about "the Real World". And it's because of a throwaway line that I never see anybody bring up... mainly because nobody likes Y:DA.

In her final letter to Konogg, Anogg explains that at some point she visited another world (likely when she fell into the Pseudo-Seed) and in doing so she learned that both her and the world are constructs - which implies she knows that a Real World exists from which this world was created. And sure, that could have been a meta-joke about haha video game. But her constructed self also displays several similarities to moments in Noelle's Chapter - which came out vaguely around the same time - and now all of this lines up with what's happening in the Cage. So yeah. What if the ending scene is her emerging from the Cage to save Konogg just like these characters have done this entire arc? All I have to say is #AnoggForReincarnation. She would be perfect. Do it.

#nier reincarnation #nier #drakengard #drakenier #yoko taro

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eviltothecore13 · 1 year ago

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The photo isn't even sexual! In the original it's a totally unsexy pose. In the remake it's maybe slightly sexier but I've been informed some people just do that to stretch. Either way it seems to be an official sports team photo taken because she was on the RPD basketball team. It has "recruit" written on the back in English, or "the expected new member" in Japanese--which makes it sound like an official photo that was given to him, perhaps one that simply fell out of her file.

It's hidden because...it's an easter egg. Its purpose is primarily as something for the player to find rather than as any kind of in-universe information. The fact you have to search to find it doesn't need to be any kind of proof that he hid it deliberately (I regularly have to search for things that I definitely didn't hide deliberately!), just that it's not in somewhere where it's easy to spot at first glance--again, perhaps it fell out of her file and was at the bottom of a drawer somewhere.

And either way, the photo is clearly one Rebecca was aware of and chose to pose like that for. Whoever took it (there's no real reason to believe Wesker took it, the team would likely get a photographer in) probably didn't have any kind of questionable intentions, there's probably photos of the whole team. And again in the original game the pose is also very unsexy. In the remake they reused the top half of her body from an image of her standing up that was used in promotional material for RE0 to show off the basketball outfit alternate costume, so the pose is different, but still fairly innocent really. The only thing that makes people see this as a "sexy photo" is the outfit, and I highly doubt Wesker designed the RPD basketball team's uniforms because why the fuck would he. That's so far from his job...

In canon, when Wesker interacts with and talks to Rebecca or talks about her, he shows no sign of any attraction to her or interest in her at all--he shoots her without even looking at her in fact.

I know on the RE Recollections site there was a post saying him *recognising her* in RE0 combined with the photos proved he had a thing for her, but A) those posts are not canon (yes they are written by Capcom employees, and some of them are fun, but they're not written by *RE writers*, they're written by like...Capcom USA publicity people, who have played the games but ultimately know nothing more about RE than any fan and have no control over its content or behind the scenes knowledge about the writers' intentions), B) it was in a very joking tone (imo not a very funny joke but), C) it's stupid, of COURSE he recognises her, she works for him! this proves nothing! And there are more jokes in Recollections posts about Wesker being attracted to Chris than to Rebecca. I think they were written by different people with different ships...they're literally about as canon as any fan's Tumblr post. And if we're going by "official but not strictly canon", when Richard Waugh was asked if Wesker was attracted to Chris, Claire or Rebecca, he said Wesker was interested in those who challenge him and he could see him being into Chris and/or Claire. Didn't mention Rebecca at all, and while she's very intelligent and this is not to dismiss her, but they never had any significant rivalry or enough interaction for him to see her as an interesting challenge.

There really is not the slightest bit of canon evidence that Wesker was even attracted to Rebecca, let alone that he was planning to groom her or abuse/assault her as some people insist.

tw for mentions of pedophilia

i’m actually so fucking pissed bc i’m so fucking tired of this fuckhead on tik tok spreading misinformation and acting like it’s real canon information

first of all you are fucking REACHING saying he’s a PEDOPHILE. ur absolutely fucking disgusting. it’s an EASTER EGG. a fucking goof. it is not canon information whatsoever and you’re acting like it’s real proof he’s a creep. yes, rebecca is young, but she is not underage. stop loosely throwing around the word “pedophile” you look fucking dumb

you’re ALSO the same person who said they laughed at lance reddicks death, so you’re also a fucking scumbag JUST because you hate wesker. literally fuck you. lance was a REAL person

i don’t care if you don’t like wesker. that’s completely in your right to have that opinion. what i DO care about is you throwing around terms you don’t know the meaning of and trying to make him seem like a pedo and a creep.

as someone who was a victim of pedophilia and has to constantly deal with it everyday of her life this is fucking disgusting that you want to say shit like this like it’s canon and act like capcom would ACTUALLY make wesker a pedophile. that hurts victims and general viewers of that content alike.

the fact that you want to throw around terms and act like it’s true is so disgusting. yes, he sucks. he’s a villain. he’s not a good person. but he is NOT a pedophile, nor is he a creep.

its an EASTER EGG. you’re fucking reaching and you’re a disgusting human being. the fact you have such a following is beyond me. get some fucking help and stop reaching for the fucking stars

#resident evil #wesker #albert wesker #rebecca chambers

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