#was DC and Dan DiDio were racist.

[morgantheblue]

I know you said you're ignoring authorial intent, but like why? Why are people so willing to give DC a pass for all this. Cassandra Cain took those mantles not for any of those in universe reasons.

But because DC were being Racist.

Because Dan DiDio didn't want a non-white Batgirl. Its as simple as that. Its also why they sent her to Hong Kong. A city she had no connection with aside from it being in Asia and Cass is Asian.

Orphan was the most insulting and I'm glad Brombal is making it clear, Cain is just "That man" he's not Cassandra's real father. Neither Cassandra nor Shiva consider him such.

Cass, Names, and the Black Bat Era

With a Black Bat mention in 2025 (read Batgirl (2024) #4!!), it seems as good a time as any to look back on one of Cass' most fleeting identities. We all know why Cass took up Batgirl and Orphan, but we don't get to see the thought process behind Black Bat. I'm going to consider why Cass might have chosen Black Bat as her name, and what it means for her relationship to Bruce and the Bat symbol.

This analysis will purely consider events from the characters' perspectives, ignoring authorial intent. There is like a negative percent chance any of the connections I make here were intended, and Black Bat probably was just a name they randomly picked. This is essentially me trying to make sense of the little Cass bits we get during the Batman Reborn era.

Background: Batgirl and Orphan

Growing up nameless, Cass associates names with personhood and autonomy. Batgirl was the first (and the most important), and a large part of Batgirl (2000) showed how Cass only thinks of herself as Batgirl.

Batgirl (2000) #7

"You need to relax, Cass--sorry--Batgirl." Barbara's 'sorry' indicates that Cass' identity is purely Batgirl, disliking any other name. (For a more in-depth exploration of this moment, see renaroo's meta!). This shows how it's not just the mantle, but the name - the actual word - that matters to Cass.

A very similar thing happens in Batman & Robin Eternal #26:

Once again, Cass is extremely particular about what people call her. And once again she rejects one identity in favour of another - she struggles with being more than one thing. Whatever identity she adopts, it contains her whole self.

Which is why when she loses herself, she becomes nameless:

Batgirl (2000) #73 / Red Robin #17

In the first panel, Cass has just 'killed' Shiva and forsaken Batgirl. "She thought she was a bat. But she came to find she wasn't that either." Without the bat, she becomes a girl "named Cain." While not technically nameless, Cain is just her father's last name - she has no first name of her own. This namelessness occurs again in Red Robin. After Bruce tells Cass to give Steph Batgirl, Cass is left without the bat again - and, again, she becomes nameless. Tim gives her a bat costume, asks her what she needs, and she says "to... just... be...".

If she takes up another name, she will become something - a name is not only identification, but transformation. When she has no idea who she is or who she wants to be (as seen in the end of Batgirl (2000) and Red Robin), she chooses namelessness.

The Gift

Cass remaining nameless not only shows her lack of identity, but her rejection of Bruce and the Batfamily.

Red Robin #17

Here, Tim says it doesn't matter what Cass calls herself, they'll always be family. Cass' answer is cryptic: "But family is not always home..." If we look at Cass' history, the only times she leaves her family is when their relationship becomes unbearable. She runs from David Cain because he makes her kill; she leaves Babs because she calls her stupid; she leaves Gotham the first time because of Steph's death; she goes to Hong Kong because Bruce makes her give away Batgirl. Family isn't home for Cass only when something awful happens.

For Cass, family and names have always been linked. In my gift post, I talked about how Batgirl was presented as a gift, and how Babs says gifts are things that make you "feel[...] not alone" (Azrael: Agent of the Bat #61). Batgirl, a gift, makes Cass feel "not alone." The mantle represents her connection to the Batfamily.

In fact, Red Robin parallels the original gifting of the Batgirl suit:

Legends of the Dark Knight #120 / Red Robin #17

Tim explicitly links the gift of the Bat symbol to family: "the...family... has settled down. I thought maybe... it was time to make it all official." (This also somewhat parallels Bruce's adoption of Cass, which Tim was also there for). But Cass doesn't accept the gift this time, telling Tim that Steph is already Batgirl, and that 'family isn't always home'. She keeps the suit, but the ambivalence in her response shows her ambivalence to her family.

Batgirl and Orphan are both familial names, one linked to the Bats, one linked to David Cain. Names to Cass represent both her own identity and her relationship to other people. When Batman took Batgirl away, he was essentially revoking her place in the family (Batman R.I.P happens right after her adoption too). Though we never explicitly get Cass' feelings, her hesitance at Tim's gift says a lot.

What Was Tim's Gift Anyway?

When Tim first sees Cass, he thinks to himself:

Red Robin #17

This is a great insight into what Tim was actually offering. The first thought reveals that Tim wasn't suggesting Cass be Batgirl again, which Cass assumed. He knows Cass doesn't want to be "who she was" - he thinks she's being true to what "she wanted to become."

What does he think Cass wants to become?

Batgirl (2000) #59

In Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood, Cass tells Tim the "the only thing" she's ever wanted was to be Batman. This is the only thing she wants - when Tim says she's being 'true to what she wanted to become', it's likely he's thinking of this conversation. So when Tim offers the batsuit, he's offering the bat mantle. He's offering what she always wanted to be: Batman.

But Cass' conception of Batman is clearly tied to Bruce ("take over for him when he's... done"), which in turn ties the concept of Batman to Gotham. Cass does become the Bat of Hong Kong, but she doesn't take the Batman name (which she totally could, since Bruce and Dick are sharing the name; or she could be 'the bat' or whatever).

Instead, she chooses Black Bat. Both Batgirl and Orphan are taken from other people, so this is strikingly the only name Cass invented (even Kasumi was probably not her invention? It was a disguise anyway). But was Black Bat actually Cass' invention?

Tai'Darshan All Along

Batgirl (2000) #40

Black Bat is also taken from someone - from Cass' first canon love interest, the one and only Tai'Darshan. I seriously don't think DC knew they were taking the name from him, but they did and that means Tai is extremely important to understanding Cass' Black Bat era.

Because Tai doesn't just represent teenage hormones. Like Lady Shiva, Tai'Darshan was a foil to Batman, someone who opposed him in almost every aspect. He is Cass' first proper rebellion, kickstarting the downfall of Cass and Bruce's relationship in Horrocks' run; he also died because of Bruce's interference, something that Bruce himself thinks is the reason Cass doesn't trust him anymore.

Batgirl (2000) #47

Though Bruce and Cass make up in #50, there is something permanently secretive about Black Wind and Cass' relationship. Bruce says "she won't tell me what" happened, and Tai's last conversation with Cass is about secrets:

Batgirl (2000) #44

Tai'Darshan represents Cass' secret side, a side "buried" from everyone (particularly Bruce). Tai's reference to Cass' "real name" is poignant - in a way, he was the first person who liked Cass for Cass, who asked her to take off her mask and admired her face underneath. He never knew who she really was, but he loved her anyway. The 'bat' in Black Bat doesn't refer to Bruce, but to Cass. It makes sense that at a time of complete identity loss - after giving up Batgirl at Bruce's orders - Cass would turn to a nickname from someone who caused her falling out with Bruce, who represents secrets, rebellion, and a self defined outside of Batman.

Black Bat

Gates of Gotham #4

I wrote elsewhere about how Gates of Gotham, and this conversation with Dick in particular, is Cass rebelling against Bruce's (and DC's) decision to boot her from Gotham. In GoG #5, she tells Tim she's staying. Black Bat as a mantle is not really Cass becoming 'the Bat' of any place - it's something different, something new. It's a reconfiguration of the Bat symbol as something that's hers.

I think Tim bookending this Black Bat experience is important, too. He gives her the Bat symbol in Hong Kong - she comes back to Gotham to tell him she's returning permanently. Black Bat and Red Robin are syntactically similar, and Black Bat is very similar to one of Tim's name suggestions ("Black Robin"). For Tim, Red Robin was punishment made into redemption; he took the name from Jason and made it his own. Black Bat, in its own way, is Cass doing the same. By taking a nickname from Tai'Darshan, she is using the bat name/symbol without attaching it to Bruce; in fact, the memory of Tai is against Bruce. She's taking back the symbol that means so much to her and making it her own.

Conclusion

This was honestly a big excuse to remind people that Black Bat comes from Tai'Darshan. As one of 4 Tai fans on this website, I just think his role in Cass' life is really interesting and underappreciated! His storyline may be awful in every way, but I'll always have a soft spot for him as a character.

Also I was writing this before Batgirl (2024) #4 came out and it does somewhat complicate this reading. Shiva is implying that Black Bat, like Orphan (and Kasumi) are identities that Cass affects, that she's "aspiring to be somebody else". I don't think Shiva is being quite fair - Orphan, for instance, is as much in defiance of David Cain as it is an homage to him. But it's interesting that even when Cass is constructing her own identity, she consistently defaults to using other people's names. In that way Shiva is right - for Cass, names are gifts, so she never tries to name herself. She also, even in this reading, clings to the image of the bat. I'm highly interested where Brombal's investigation into Cass' identity will take her, especially in regards to superhero and legacy mantles.

[morgantheblue]

If you think Cassandra Cain should go by any mantle other than Batgirl

You better mean she should go by Batman.

Orphan and Black Bat were titles given to her because Dan DiDio hated the idea of a non-white woman having the Batgirl mantle. She didn't lose the mantle for "Character Development" She lost it because DC was racist.

Cassandra Cain is the only one of the Batfamily who is loyal to the Bat. The Symbol and what it represents, before anything else.

Dick Grayson is Nightwing.

Jason Todd is Red Hood.

Tim Drake is Robin.

Damian Wayne is A Mistake.

Stephanie Brown is Spoiler.

Duke Thomas is Signal.

Barbra Gordon is Oracle.

And Cassandra Cain is Batgirl.

[dailycass-cain]

Can you tell us more about Gabrych and the end of the 2000 run? Why was it cancelled?

Near the end of the comic book event "Infinite Crisis", Batgirl Vol. 1 was axed. This was not due to low sales (several DC Comics at the time were selling worse and continued on when the relaunch "One Year Later" program was to hit) but for a rather sexist reason.

Back in 2010, the inker for Batgirl Vol. 1, Jesse Delperdang, posted on Deviantart the real reason the series was canceled, "canceled to make room for the coming Batwoman."

That "coming Batwoman" was an ongoing series by Devin Grayson, and would never see the light of day (DC got cold feet when the character got more publicity than they realized and decided to retool the character (which we got with Greg Rucka and J.H. Williams III over in Detective Comics a few years later).

Because more than "one female bat comic" was one too many. Not only that but just last year Dan DiDio posted on Facebook the original outline he had for "OYL" regarding Cass:

Of course, DiDio always changed his mind and instead, we got the racist caricature in OYL. Nor would this be the last time DiDio would change his thoughts on what to do with Cass (2009, 2011, and 2016. Each a can of worms of themselves).

So that's why Batgirl Vol. 1 was canceled, due to sexism.

As for Gabrych, he continued to work with DC until an Omega Men mini in 2006-2007 and began to go back to his life outside DC Comics. He did come back to write a 2010 graphic novel Frogtown for the Vertigo label.

The thing is, DC Editorial under DiDio was a nasty business. Sometimes you followed the edicts or didn't and walked altogether (Kelley Puckett for a brief run with Supergirl Vol. 5 in 2008 and Dylan Horrocks with the "War Games" event when he and Grayson objected to Stephanie Brown being brutally murdered and DC taking away Babs from the comic too). Or you got nasty pricks in editing to deal with like Eddie Berganza (a noted DiDio toadie). It was just a toxic culture altogether, and I'm glad it is over when DiDio got fired in early 2020.

Two have left comics altogether (Puckett & Gabrych) and Horrocks is doing indie comic work in his native New Zealand, but avoiding the Big 2 after the "War Games" experience.

The sad truth is, if you write a Batgirl ongoing there's a 75% chance you're gonna get out of the industry. Literally, there's only a handful of Batgirl writers who've done stories on the ongoings and not left.

We just got Bryan Q. Miller back to DC in a few months (they're also reprinting the Batgirl Vol. 3 run he did), and that's probably cause most of the old regime left (see an SDCC 2020 Batgirls panel he was on with Sarah Kuhn and others where he goes onto a tale regarding his clashes with the heads over Cass).

Puckett did do a new foreword to his Batman Adventures run which got an Omnibus recently. So MAYBE there's hope for him too.

I hope I answered your question to the fullest on why Batgirl Vol. 1 ended and why Gabrych left the industry.

[canonmisogynyvictimstournament]

PRELIMINARY ROUND - DC COMICS

PROPAGANDA

Cassandra Cain

1.) essentially her character premise is that shes more or less an unbeatable martial artist due to the way she was raised. in the comics, she's the second batgirl and had a very popular solo series from 2000-2006. However, essentially DC editorial really didn't like that a teenage chinese girl was a better hand-to-hand fighter than batman, and so mandated that she be turned into a extremely random (also remarkably racist, as she was more or less turned in a 'dragon lady' stereotype) villain, which completely derailed and destabilized her character enough for her to almost entirely disappear from comics for the next decade. this is a far more detailed write up if wanted: https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/pdue0e/american_comicsdc_comics_the_saga_of_cassandra/

2.) Following the events of One Year Later, Cass was turned into a homicidal villain who led her own league of assassins and wanted to force Tim Drake into murdering people. This was later retconned as her being drugged, brainwashed, and manipulated by deathstroke.

3.) Literally canonically a better fighter than Batman and probably most of the DC universe. Killed one person once and because of the way she grew up (never taught to speak, learned to communicate by reading body language, in order to make her the ultimate weapon), saw what he experienced as he died and then refused to ever kill again. Had an awesome initial run… And then got hit with "evil mind control" that made her go completely OOC, depopularizing her character so much that a lot of people don't even know she exists.

Barbara Gordon

1.) Was shot as angst value for Bruce and her dad, implied to be sexually assaulted in The Killing Joke with absolutely no respect for her long career as Batgirl. When Alan Moore asked if he could, the editor said "cripple the bitch." She became paralyzed from the waist down. THankfully, an actually good writer picked her up from there and then wrote one of the best stories ever written (Oracle Year One: Born from Hope). Was one of the most iconic disabled characters in comic book history, hell, as Oracle, she was definitely up there as one of the most iconic disabled characters ever as well as a fantastic character, period. There were a few moments where people kept trying to make things out of her disability and had her be shitty to other women for no reason but for the most part, she was awesome. During her time In 2011, Dan Didio and some other misogynistic/ableist comic book writers were responsible for "curing" her disability and forcing her back into Batgirl, despite her having shown absolutely no desire to do so, as part of the New 52. They also made it an editorial mandate that she couldn't have glasses, a cool secret base, and her time as Oracle couldn't be referenced. This was because those writers were nostalgic for the 60s Batman show where Babs was played by an actress they all had the hots for and couldn't accept she'd grown up and moved on. That was bad enough, but over time, she's been increasingly deaged and reduced even further to just Dick Grayson's on and off again girlfriend and a generic girlboss. Batgirl of Burnsides burn in hell.

2.) Famously fridged in 1988, which was so popular with misogynists it became canon. After almost 2 decades of being one of the only disabled characters, was rebooted to a younger, more fun version of herself whose only history is that she was fridged but not disabled by it.

3.) The Killing Joke is one of the biggest comic examples of a female character getting hurt to motivate male characters. Also tbe way different cannons will trade off who her romantic intrest is out of Batfamily is pretty disturbing ranging from Bruce Wayne in Batman the Animated series universe (ew) to Tim Drake in the Arkham games (ew). Not to mention DC now is not letting her grow out of being Batgirl taking away her legacy of other young female heroes taking up her mantle and her getting to mentor them instead forcing her into a Batgirl cycle of purgatory when she was always better as Oracle (Its a little more complicated in the new Batgirl book but its still not solving the issues in a way that feels meaningful enough to make up the damage).

[bluebeetle]

ooo those comic asks let's go 1, 2, 9, 12, 15, 23, 34, 42 sorry that's so much i just want your comic takes

answering this was difficult bc my cat decided she needed to walk all over me and my laptop the moment you sent this

1. How has DC/Marvel/publishing company wronged you, specifically?

oh god in many ways. For dc:

>making talia evil >making cass evil and then ignorable

>making jason suddenly an antihero with no development to go from villain to hero

>letting babs walk again

>the whole mess with wally west after the reboot and the two wallys. also he hasnt talked to pied piper YET ITS BEEN YEARS

>almost everything about the n52 reboot honestly

>countdowns existence but esp the plotpoint where they took my fave minor character pied piper and handcuffed him to trickster and then had trickster be homophobic to him for most of the 52 issues; this is not treated as a bad thing. also trickster has known pied piper for years and was never homophobic before i hate dan didio

for marvel:

>constantly making the comics more like the MCU pls fucking STOP i hat you so much

>trying to make loki evil again. die.

>everything theyve done to wanda. everything. but esp making her not related to magneto again. or the incest thing in ultimates. ugh

2. What character death for the sake of drama was the worst?

dc: hmmmm most of the deaths i can think of i dont mind. i guess most ppls deaths in Heroes in Crisis, esp roy's. that was so dumb ugh. not big on them killing damian but the writing in batman and robin was rly good so it makes up for it. im sure theres someone im forgetting--oh WAIT

bart allens death in the flash it sucked so bad and one of his creators was so upset and died before bart allen was revived. that one definitely that one.

i blocked it from my mind

marvel: WANDA WANDA WANDA WANDA WANDA STOP KILLING ER OFF FOR DRAMA DEAR GODDDDDDDDDDDDD

9. What’s the worst plotline you’ve read?

oh boy. does all star batman and robin count its rly bad ghhgf i also didnt rly get checkmate (2021). also i guess theres a lot of talias bad writing that i went thru for damian ):

for marvel uhhhh i dont read enough marvel so i have nothing to say. maybe when i read house of M well say that one lol. i did read some of civil war in middle school?

12. Are there any comics you’ve read knowing they’re bad and why?

not many. all star batman and robin bc its so bad its funny. parts of rhato for that jason content but ive never finished it and i think rhato vol 2 isnt always bad.

for marvel, nah

15. Tell me about a plotline that could have been interesting if anyone else wrote it.

anything devon grayson does tbh like dealing with dicks stress over murder and guilt or him being romani (Tho him not knowing is dumb). it was so bad and racist ugh. other than that I think the spyral and ric grayson arcs coulda been good if they were like, combined maybe? and shorter. lmao

also the current robin 2021 run tbh... i think the idea of a tournment and damian grappling with guilt could be fun but the writer cares waaaaaay too much about his ocs to give damian real breathing room

speaking of damian: teen titans 2016 coulda been SO fun if they werent so racist and wanting to make damian a bad guy for caring about immigrants and people of colour lol. i rly loved what few good moments he had with wally, emiko, jackson, and the others.

for marvel... mybe trial of magneto coulda worked if the writers cared about magneto and wanda lol. or x-factor 2020 it had some good ideas but was ruined by the writers weirdness about akihiro and david... like just the racism combined with weird views of bi men lol

23. If you could erase one comic book from canon, what would it be?

oh this one is so hard.... either heroes in crisis (wally being a mass murderer) or batgirl 2011--no more abled babs she doesnt exist.

or countdown. i rly fucking hate countdown.

for marvel idk. can i just destroy the mcu instead

oh wait. ultimates avengers. pls i dont want to think about the ultimates universe maximoff twins ever AGAIN

34. Which retcon do you hate the most?

for DC, four come to mind:

>Parallax isn't Hal Jordans fault

so if u dont know hal jordan back in the 90s broke down after his city was destroyed by doomsday and he lost many loved ones. as a result he went full on villain (parallax) and ended up destroying most of the green lantern corps and caused the zero hour event

he then was killed and later came back as the hero spectre, basically being a ghost hero and trying to atone for his actions he did in the lowest point of his life

anyways later on geoff johns got the reins and revived Hal and said it wasn't hal's fult at all, he was just possessed by an evil space bug made of fear, the real Parallax.

aaaand i hate that. I hate taking away Hals role in everything and making him a victim. I dont mind the other retcons Geoff Johns did to GL lore--hell i prefer it because he really fleshed things out and added the other colours and explained the weakness to yellow even!--but I think it all could have been done without stripping Hal of any wrong doings or guilt. Its rly lame.

>Babs can walk again!

ok not rly a retcon bc she was still shot but i hate it i hate it so much die die die die die die die die

>Jason was actually a rly mean, stupid, and bad robin and no one liked him and his death was inevitable

He had his momentts of violence, yes but his anger had a trigger; he wasnt angry all the time, he was a sweet and intelligent kid who loved Bruce a lot and had a rocky relationship with Dick at first but they did eventually get along. He had a few friends, knew the titans, and was well liked by his family.

too many stories stress his violence and impulsiveness and make him out to be a bad person with at least trying to explore why he is that way and sympathsize with him.

not only that but the treating of his death as inevitable or his fault or anything like that frustrates me so fucking much bc the weight of death in the family, of its aftermath and a lonely place of dying, of under the red hood, really hinges on the fact that jasons death was a tragedy, one that shook Bruce like no other. because he lost his child who he loved!!!!!

wait fourth one

>theres two wally wests with the same powers

super lame. shoulda either made the black wally into bart allen with some explaination for the fake name or just kept the black wally and given him white wallys memories and stuff. maybe aged him up idk. it was such a cop out

for marvel. well we all kn ow what its gonna be

>WHY THE FUYCK IS MAGNETO NOT WANDA AND PIETROS DAD ANYMORE? WHAT THE FUCK? IT RUINS SO MANY STORIES AND ITS STUPID AND ITS JUST STUPID MCU BULLSHIT I HATE IT SO MUCH FUCKING UNDO IT

42. What’s a fandom trope you hate?

oh boy.

>Dick and/or Damian get rescued by the mean racists by Bruce and/or Tim and/or Jason. Cass and Duke are mysteriously absent.

>Bruce has all his kids with him! Who's Cassandra? (....who's duke?)

>Jason was manipulated by the big mean Talia into hating his dad. He has never done anything wrong in his life, its all Talia who hates Bruce so much she wants to marry him or something idk i never read a talia comic in my life

>Redhead jason. let it fucking DIE

>tim is the best robin ever and a lil uwu bean and damian and jason are just soooo mean and always wrong esp damian whos 10

>whats a woman

>did you guys know you make Dick hot without making him a '''''slut'''' esp since hes an SA victim.....

>im so tired of jokes about republican wally esp since none of these ppl have ever read his flash run or even know who linda park or hartley rathaway are

>making jack drake way more abusive than he actually is in canon (hes neglectful at times yes) for sad white boy points or making jason a victim of CSA for sad white boy points (also you guys know someone doesnt have to have been assaulted to hate sexual assault right????)

>making tim asian and jason latino. holy racist stereotypes batman

im sure theres WAY more i could do but theyve been blocked out of my mind for now

for marvel tbh i dont deal with the marvel fandom much so!

the most i could say is

>forgetting loki is bi and genderfluid bc they wanna fuck a white cishet boy

i did all of this and realised i only talked about dc and had to go back and add marvel btw jvfdhghfdhgfdh

[themyskira]

Based on that WW #750 (which sounds like I need to buy mostly for the good parts), I take it you don't like 5G's idea of having Diana be the DCU's first superhero. At least, I think you do? How do you feel about that and the whole 5G thing as a whole? Just curious.

I have less than zero interest in 5G because I haven’t read a single thing about it that suggests it’s any different than the New 52, or Rebirth, or any other Capital-C-Crisis over the past fifteen years.

Dan Didio and his cohort of graduated comics fanbros have this utterly boring preoccupation with creating a Grand Unified History of the DC Universe that takes all the messy, sprawling, sometimes contradictory stories and characters across the last eighty-odd years of comics and organises them all in neat little lines and boxes.

It’s an obsession they’ve argued is about accessibility for new readers -- and both n52 and Rebirth did offer a superficial degree of accessibility by creating clear jumping-on points with fresh story arcs in new #1 issues -- but in practice it looks a lot like Dan and his bros reconfiguring the universe around what they think matters (while erasing or simply ignoring anything they think doesn’t).

It’s the reason the New 52 retained all four male Robins and their key character arcs while erasing two Batgirls and infantilising the remaining one.  At the end of the day, Dan Didio, Jim Lee and their pals made the decision that every male member of the core Batfamily (along with their somewhat complex histories of adoptions and assassin babies, deaths and resurrections, and growth into their own iconic vigilante identities) was Important -- and that the three Batgirls and their comparable growth arcs were not.

The past couple of reboots have been riddled with these kind of value judgements, privileging what Dan and the boys see as worthwhile (or what they see as appealing to their narrow target audience of white, heterosexual, cisgender 18-35 year-old men) while sneering at everyone else. They’ve also been plagued by poor planning, poor communication and poor follow-through: in both the New 52 and Rebirth, writers would regularly contradict or confuse the new canon simply because it wasn’t clear to anyone on the books what was and wasn’t in continuity.

So when I yet again hear the words “new timeline” and “Dan Didio” in the same sentence, I don’t care how awesome 5G is as a concept on paper, I don’t trust that it’s going to be implemented with any particular care or aptitude.

And, well. This is just a personal view, but I don’t find it a particularly interesting concept. I don’t read comics for overarching metaplots and crossover events. Nothing turns me off a book faster. I follow characters and I’m drawn to stories that build on a hero’s personal arc, their relationships, their world. It doesn’t particularly worry me exactly how an individual book or arc slots in with the broader timeline of the universe. Shared comic book universes have always been tangled, convoluted places and I’m cool with a bit of handwaving; like a lot of comics fans, I’m long accustomed to flat-out ignoring the bits of canon I don’t like (it’s so sad that Barbara Gordon hasn't appeared in a single DC comic since 2011, don’t you think?).

I much prefer a big wide sandbox, with all its oddities and contradictions and forgotten treasures for writers to draw upon to build interesting stories, over a prescriptive crossover event that derails stories and character arcs in favour of a meta story I’m never going to read anyway.

As for making Wondy the first superhero, I’m... ambivalent. The idea of Diana being an early source of hope who saw the potential in all humanity and inspired others to stand up is lovely, but the more I reflect on it the less comfortable I am with re-anchoring her origins in WWII-era America and the patriotic narratives that are likely to come with it.

It’s of course possible that a writer might use this opportunity to thoughtfully interrogate how the Wonder Woman we know would navigate and push back against the violent bigotry of 1940s America -- but we’re more likely to see a retread of the original propagandistic Golden Age narrative of a heroine who helps the virtuous Americans topple the evil Axis powers, both because of a likely reluctance on DC’s part to get too ~political~ (you know, by acknowledging America’s racist history exists) and because the DCU’s history is intended to follow a similar path to our own world’s (which means Wonder Woman can’t be allowed to change society in any noticeable way aside from ~inspiring~ other heroes... and that immediately creates a rather depressing vision of the eighty years she’s spent in Man’s World).

And that’s the real problem: they’re moving her origin story back to the forties not because they have anything new to say or any particular story they want to explore with the character in that era (like, for instance, Superman Smashes the Klan is doing brilliantly at the moment), but because the five-generation scheme they’re going for requires that Diana (as a designated first-generation hero) appear in the forties. Because Dan and the bros have a Vision and their Grand Unified History of the DCU takes precedence over piffling things like good storytelling and rich characters.

oh and the other problem I have with 5G is the dumbass name because it just puts me in mind of those fucking Telstra ads.

[tessatechaitea]

Dark Nights: Metal #3

I'm trying to be more positive so I'd like to praise John Romita Jr. for how well he draws monster teeth. If he drew them, that is!

How come heroes always say shit like this? Have they never been around their friends when their friends are drunk? "Good" goes out the window pretty fucking easily.

The Flash races out of a giant ankh to rescue Superman from the Bat-inspired evil Justice League. He takes him to The Oblivion Bar where Detective Chimp reminds everybody that the DC Universe heartily sucked for a long while because Dan DiDio believed it wasn't a place for fun and whimsy. Of course, that's all being taken care of now with this Rebirth and Watchmen shit. Now all the idiots who thought Comics Shouldn't Be Fun Again are backpedaling and pretending it was the fault of everybody but the editors in charge. "It was the Watchmen! They changed it all for the worse!" "It was the fans! This is what they said they wanted!" "It wasn't Jim Lee, Geoff Johns, or Dan DiDio at all! Stop looking at us! I mean them!" Oh! Tomorrow is Friday the 13th! I have to remember to play the Friday the 13th video game tomorrow because they have to do something special, right? Like maybe log the IP of everybody who plays and send Jason around to murder us all? How fun would that be! Seriously! Please somebody kill me. This country has gotten so terrible.

Racist! Or anti-golem? Whatever it is, it's probably gross, right? Am I doing youth correctly?

Other people hiding out in the Oblivion Bar are Steel, Mister Terrific, the Justice League, Green Arrow, Damian Wayne, and Plastic Man stuck in the form of a giant egg. But even as an egg, he's able to vibrate out a message. Wonder Woman translates it as "Oh. OH! OoOoOoHhHhHh! OH ZEUS YES!" Mister Terrific translates it as coordinates to deep space, beneath Atlantis, and the center of the multiverse. What kind of chart can graph those coordinates? An XYZZZZZZZZZZZ chart? I buy that Mister Terrific can figure them out but how the fuck did Plastic Man do the math on them? He's just a petty, clumsy crook turned accidental superhero! I don't remember him being a maths genius! Plastic Egg also gives some negative coordinates and Mister Terrific is all, "These don't make sense! I may be a genius but I don't understand how coordinates work!" Luckily Superman is there to be all, "Nobody pay attention to this whole thing about negative numbers not being valid coordinates! He probably means the Dark Multiverse!" And everybody is all, "Whew! Good save, Superman! That certainly was a job for you!" Deathstork arrives to help out because he has a Promethium sword. It's not Nth metal but it'll do the trick when it comes to hurting the Batjerks. Now everybody can split up and go explore all the coordinates Plastic Egg vibrated into Mister Terrific's ear. Ear? Yeah, it was probably his ear. Steel, Flash, and Superman team up to rescue Batman from the Dark Multiverse. Mister Terrific, Green Lantern, and Plastic Egg team up to head into deep space. Doctor Fate, Green Arrow, and Wonder Woman head to the Rock of Eternity. And Aquaman and Deathstork head to the place beneath Atlantis. Most of the teams have an easy job, following the coordinates. But Superman's team has to rely on Superman making up a theory as to how they can get to the Dark Multiverse. Luckily, it's a comic book so science that is pure speculation is usually good enough to get the job done. Superman makes it to the Dark Multiverse but finds that it's a trap! Surprise! Batman was trying to warn Superman not to save him but Superman was too dumb to figure out Batman's genius code. So typical of Superman. He never does the smart thing. He should have listened to Nightwing. Everybody should listen to Nightwing! He's the only one that ever knows what's going on. Not only is it a trap but it's part of Barbatos's plan. He needs Superman's body to be the battery for his gadget to turn Earth-Main-Earth into a hell dimension. It's too bad that all of the ancient texts Hawkman and Hawkwoman read didn't say something about Superman being the key to the rise of Barbatos. All the clues pointed to Batman! So once again, Hawkman fucked up. What an idiot. Dark Nights: Metal #3 Rating: Not too bad. I mean, Mister Terrific, the world's third smartest man, made a stupid mistake. But that's to be expected when Not the World's Third Smartest Man is writing the comic book. It's hard to write a genius when you have to know things. Which sucks because writers are writers so they don't have to know stuff! You get to just make shit up! I mean, sure, you can do research. But what if you don't know you need to do research when you're writing about something like, say, coordinates?! Obviously all coordinates must be positive, right? How can negative coordinates exist in the world?! That doesn't make any sense! Which is why latitude and longitude are totally fake news. Those places in negative latitudes and longitudes either don't exist or are composed of pure evil. Mainly I'm excited for the Aquaman/Deathstork team-up. I hope that becomes a forty-five issue maxi-series.

[dailycass-cain]

so this is my first time reading Batgirl (TYSM for the guide!) and I'm pretty new to comics in general. I've made it to #41 so far, and I can't help but notice the huge decline in writing from #38 onwards with the change of writers. Maybe it's just exacerbated by how good the previous issues were; but it really feels like Cass drastically went from a rare female character that is actually written with the same respect and depth as the male characters to being turned into a "girl superhero" with boy troubles who gets forced into bikinis and love triangles. Since you seem to know a lot about what was going on behind the scenes at the time, did something happen? I know there's misogynistic/racist men in the industry who hated Cass so I was wondering if that was already brewing back then during her 2000s run

I think when it came post-Puckett era, Dylan Horrocks was faced with a choice: ape off Puckett or try something different with the character.

I'll be honest, the early Horrocks' stuff you're in hasn't aged well. The ideas are interesting, of exploring sexuality and Cass realizing she can "see" what men think of her, and I think the utter realization of Babs making a mistake is good. It's just the overall execution is more of a miss.

The thing is, #41 gives us an excellent in-character reason for her choices. It's just this is all balanced with Bruce being pretty awful to Cass during this period (because this is all in a lead-up to Horrocks "big" story for #50).

Horrocks run can best be summed as: starts "meh" has interesting ideas, but fails to fully execute them well. There are some standoff amazing moments in the comics (I think the Doll Man issue is quite underrated).

Though, you're right. This is the era when Dan DiDio began to rise to power within the DC Comics Company, and it shows during this particular run.

So during this "run" we had A LOT of things happen outside the comic.

#1 Batman: Hush going on, and that story is particularly infamous for neglecting Cass due to story writer Jeph Loeb's distaste cause she wasn't Barbara Gordon (artist Jim Lee, who now currently runs DC too had this idea but since 2020 has softened this stance and realizes the mistake made).

Add this with DiDio's bias toward the Bronze Age "iconic" characters (Barry, Hal, and Babs) you have this growing problem.

#2 Cass DID get to be involved in another comic. The Justice League: Elite maxi-series. Though she didn't show up in THE Batman story, Cass was showing up in two other series at this time. One, well is in my "infamous" Cass reading guide (Batman: City of Light), and JL: Elite.

The later series did a nice job with the "twist" that Cass was on the team and as an agent of Batman spying on them. It is an actually interesting and good story.

#3 This is the era the "editorial edicts" started to come in. So a rather infamous thing during DiDio's reign was editorial edicts that would force changes in comics (leading to some outrageous OOC moments). This happened TWICE in Horrocks' Batgirl run.

At a certain point, Horrocks is told via top brass that he's losing Babs as a supporting cast member and has to write her off the comic. So he has to write a Babs/Cass go their separate ways due to well you'll see.

The other is in regards to Stephanie Brown who'll be back in the comic past #50 (she left the series in #38). What Horrocks didn't know until a Bat summit around this time (where all the Batman book creatives discussed where to take the books in the coming months) is that Stephanie's days were numbered.

She was coming back (and as Robin), but they were killing off the character. Horrocks and Nightwing writer Devin Grayson HATED the idea and objected to it.

Sadly, they were outvoted and well whatever else occurred in those meetings (or after) resulted in Horrocks quitting the Batgirl series and DC Comics itself by #57 (this is why Horrocks' run on the book just ends abruptly with no real end). Horrocks is still currently just enjoying the life of writing and doing Indie comics.

Interestingly, whatever Horrocks said or did it's interesting to note his is the only run never collected fully by DC Comics. Sadly, the only Batgirl issues that were EVER put in a trade were the stuff that made him walk (Batman: War Games, the event that killed Stephanie Brown). That was until the mid-2010s when DC released a HC Batgirl Anniversary trade that also included stories of Bette Kane, Steph, and Cass as Batgirl. #45 (aka Cass wearing Babs' Batgirl costume) is in the trade collection.

Ironically, this bad management editorial would also eventually affect Kelley Puckett (who returns to DC with Supergirl Vol. 5 #23-29, 31-32) around 2008 to 2009 but then ALSO decided to leave DC and comics altogether.

Not those two, but also the writer who'd replaced Horrocks, Andersen Gabrych (who was one of the minds behind War Games). However, I honestly do love Gabrych's run on Batgirl more than Horrocks. It's just the edicts and the rushing toward the end of his run kind of sours it.

I hope all this information is helpful.