#vk science anon

[kmp78]

Hmmm…🤔 Asian anon wants to have the power to shapeshift😜 Ya, what IF in meet and greet I give him a scare as VK or even CD lmaoo

OMG! 😂😂😂

Can science please make this a reality! 🙏

[getoffthesoapbox]

VK Science - Level D, E, and Disease

[GOTSB’s reply:] My sincerest apologies for how long it’s taken me to get back to you on this, my friend. Writing up my post on the latest chapter took all my energy last month, and my capacity for thinking about VK was completely drained. Still I made you wait an abysmally long time, and I’m deeply sorry about it. 

Anyway, let’s discuss your post! =) 

Sorry for the delay. I got ill (still am) and was unable to do much of anything. I also almost lost all of this! I was about to quit! OTL Can I at least get props for my rhyming title LOL? Anyway, since we seem to be on the same page from our last discussion, I figured I would move on to my next theory, which will explain how I think Purebloods “turn” humans into “vampires,” why they are able to do this from an evolutionary perspective, what this may look like on a genetic level, and why I am looking at this from a disease perspective. This will overall help further establish the differences between actual vampires that were naturally born and former human vampires. In the end, this will also explain why a single “cure” wouldn’t work for all vampires and why in VK they should instead be researching a cure for former humans.

[GOTSB’s reply:] I hope you’re feeling better by now, my friend, and I’m so sorry you were sick. Absolutely you get props for rhyming the title. ;) I’d give you a gold star if I had any. =P And cool! I love the idea that a single cure won’t work (though I wonder if Hino is smart enough for this haha)!

Differences between Vampires and Former Humans: Personally, I agree with Aidou’s statement in the beginning of VK when at Takuma’s party, him and the others stated that they are different from Level D’s and especially, Level E’s; although, I don’t agree with how they looked down at them, of course.

Observational: Before discussing any science, we can see that Level D’s are not as strong as other vampires nor do they live as long. The difference is even more noticeable with Level E’s as their appearance no longer fits with the saying, “A beast in human form” because they look terrifying like monsters. I think some of this can be explained with psychology as they appear to lose their sanity, which is evident with their disarrayed appearance and broken speech. Personally, I think the loss of sanity makes sense, but I will cover my reasoning in another point below.

[GOTSB’s reply:] Absolutely agree with you here, and despite Aidou’s snotty attitude in the first arc, I think he was still being intellectually honest back then. =) There’s absolutely a difference between the “made” vampires and the “natural” vampires, if you will.

“Turning” and Genetics: As we briefly discussed last time, Level D’s and E’s were originally human, which should be evident in their overall DNA. If you remember our first discussion, you theorized Purebloods activating a gene, but like I said earlier, this wouldn’t be possible because that means humans would naturally contain the Vmpr gene, but in a dormant state. Honestly… My theory is odd even to me, but it’s the only way I could rationalize how Purebloods turn humans into vampires without “magicz.” I more than encourage other theories and speculation, and I’ll see if I can scientifically explain them :)

[GOTSB’s reply:] Sounds fair enough to me! Anything’s better than “magicz” and “lazy writer is lazy,” so I’m totally open to anything you can give us that can help us escape those two routes. ;)

Genetic Alteration: I guess because I am in Microbiology and I focus on microbes that led me to create this theory. Plus, I also fell ill because of a virus and then a bacterium (my luck…), so I guess that was inspiration? ’(^_^) Anyway, again, going back to our first discussion, when you mentioned that you think Purebloods “give” a gene to “turn” humans, I wondered how that could be possible as it seemed really odd, the idea of giving a gene via a bite. 

[GOTSB’s reply:] Lol! Microbial/bacterial inspiration! (To be fair, I get a lot of my inspiration when I’m sick too–maybe because you have to sit alone by yourself for a long time and can put things into perspective better. ;D) LOL and when you put it that way, my thought does sound really weird, doesn’t it? =P This is why I’m not a scientist IRL fufu. Thank you for humoring me. ;)

Viral DNA: I think it could be possible if the Purebloods naturally carry a virus that is only harmful to the human genome - anyone who doesn’t carry the Vmpr gene. This would be similar to how some organisms are venomous. Although… There’s a lot of problems with this theory too.

[GOTSB’s reply:] Ohhhh that’s interesting! We know vampires get sick and have their own “illnesses” too–Maria was ill for a long time and Aidou’s latest cure just “cured” a vampire’s rheumatism. So basically what this virus you’re thinking of would be is, if a vampire bit anotehr vampire, this virus basically just wouldn’t do anything ‘cause vampires are naturally immune to its effects or have natural defenses against it, but biting a human would activate the virus and it would then just warp their genes? 

How it works on the Genetic Level: Essentially, this virus could hijack the normal replication sites of DNA (likely the promoter region) in humans to replicate it’s own viral DNA. This would alter the DNA in humans, which could include the expression of genes/traits. Now this virus doesn’t have to insert an exact copy of DNA that Purebloods or other vampires have and in VK it wouldn’t. Of course all of this is speculation, but if I had to guess, I would say that it inserts a sequence of codons that code, say for, Vmpr2 - different from what Level A to C vampires carry. Because it codes for vampiric traits and we labeled vampirism as dominant, you would expect this gene to code over the human genes or turn them to a more dormant state. In the end, human traits are not expressed.

[GOTSB’s reply:] You know, this might also explain why different “turned” humans turn at varying rates too, due to individual DNA replication differences. So that’d maybe also explain why Zero took so long to turn (Zero’s genetics are also are partially vampiric thanks to the twin curse + Ancestress DNA, so he’d perhaps be more resistant to this thing), yet Sara’s turned servants became vampires much sooner. 

Why a different gene: I theorize a different gene because if it was the same gene, then we would see Level D’s as more similar to Average vampires, and therefore, they shouldn’t fall to Level E. Although, there are some arguments about why they fall to Level E, which I will address in a different point. Additionally, if it was the same gene, then you would expect a Level D vampire to be as strong as an Average vampire as well as experience bloodlust as frequently; however, again, there are some counterarguments that could explain a different reason that separate the two levels. Plus, as stated before, Hino does not focus on the lower class vampires, so we’re not exactly sure the clear differences between the two. The discrimination towards Level D’s is likely because they are labeled as “former humans” aka “others.” Although, as victims of a vampire attack and as explained by the genetic difference, they shouldn’t even be considered as part of vampire society (not that they can necessarily be part of human society any longer), thus, being placed in the hierarchy. However, from an evolutionary perspective, they could be placed in the hierarchy as servants, which they appear to be.

[GOTSB’s reply:] I agree; it doesn’t seem Level Ds have any sort of status or place in vampiric society unless they’re directly serving their masters a la Seiren with Kaname or Isaya’s servants. From what I gathered, most Level Ds were simply abandoned to fend for themselves until they became Level Es and had to be disposed of (so basically they probably for the most part become homeless vagrants). <– speculation of course. But you’re right, we don’t know enough about the average vampires to be able to cite the differences; I think we encounter average vampires maybe once or twice as side characters, but we don’t get to find out much about them. Still, I think we are meant to “assume” that Level Ds are lowest in all vampiric traits, and that there is a difference between them and average Level Cs.

What this means: This would mean that vampirism is a disease in former humans because this would be a genetic disorder since the virus mutated the human genome with viral DNA. This establishes Level D’s as “fake vampires.”

[GOTSB’s reply:] I like this quite a bit, and it helps explain the differences between them better. 

Issues/Arguments: As much as I would like this theory to be sound, it isn’t complete because I can’t pinpoint what area of the body the virus would hone in on. More so than that… I’ve never heard of an organism naturally carrying a virus that isn’t harmful to it as well, which is different from transmitting a virus/bacterium. That would be a really odd symbiotic relationship (O_o) As much as I would like to say there’s a different microbe (perhaps, in the saliva of Purebloods), it just wouldn’t make sense since I have never heard of any other microbe that could mutate an organism’s DNA.

[GOTSB’s reply:] Wait, organisms can’t carry around viruses that aren’t harmful to them as well? I know fleas carried bubonic plague–but I never knew the virus affected the fleas themselves. Is that how it normally is with carriers? Could it just be that the virus Purebloods carry has different effects in already-vampiric beings (kind of like how rabies manifests differently in humans than in dogs, for example)? (Obviously I have no clue here, but I had no idea this was the case and I find it quite fascinating. =D) As for a microbe that can mute DNA, well, we could maybe attribute that to the climate change perhaps? Or the fact that this is a different world than ours maybe, and so perhaps its micro-organisms have some different proclivities?

Evolutionary Benefit of “Turning”: We did briefly discuss this in some of our discussions about what could be a reason why Purebloods arose and why it would be necessary for them to be able to “turn” humans into their own kind.

Saving Humankind: Looking at it from a beneficial standpoint, it is true that it would prevent humans from getting ill and dying so soon. As you mentioned, this would only be necessary during the appearance of the Progenitors.

Survival of the Fittest: From the Purebloods’ perspective, being able to “turn” humans is a great benefit and ability. Evolution does not care about keeping peace within the two subspecies. In a lot of ways, evolution is even selfish because it is all about one’s own preservation. As such, I think the ability to “turn” humans into “vampires” is really just a means of survival for Purebloods and vampires. It gives Purebloods control over a person from a biological mechanism rather than a social construct (a tighter “leash”), further establishing a master-servant relationship. As masters, Purebloods can use their servants for primarily whatever they desire, be it blood, a weapon, or otherwise, which we see in the wars between the two subspecies.

[GOTSB’s reply:] I think this is a fair point you bring up, and it actually makes far more sense why the turned humans “serve” the Purebloods–they’re meant to ensure the Pureblood’s continued survival (despite the fact that Purebloods are immortal and have insane regenerative capabilities? LOL this is why it would have been better to make them weak or defenseless to something in order for this evolutionary need to make more sense fufu, but whatever). 

Why Level D’s are different: To further establish them as servants, you would expect them to not be very strong, so they cannot rebel against vampires. Their higher frequency of bloodlust also forces them to be more dependent of Purebloods, meaning they cannot live without their masters, which could explain the difference between Level D and C vampires.

[GOTSB’s reply:] I think this is a great point. Plus their masters are the only way to stabilize them, which also by default makes them codependent on their masters, ensuring the system functions in the Pureblood’s favor. 

Disease, Insanity, and Fall of Humanity: …I just love rhyming XD Ahem! All in all, I think it’s pretty straightforward why former humans should be viewed as having a disease.

[GOTSB’s reply:] When you’re sick, your inner poet comes out. XD 

Disease: I said I would talk about why I don’t think Zero delaying his bloodlust is particularly special, so I’ll talk about that here. In short, you wouldn’t expect a virus to take over the body within a couple of minutes. Do not get me wrong, they do replicate incredibly fast. However, you’ll notice that it takes a while for you to see some symptoms and that later you succumb to the disease the virus is causing. I think this would be the same case with former humans. How long would it take for the virus to take over? I don’t know, it varies between viruses and it also varies between people (their immune systems) who are infected. That being said, it appears for Zero that it took him years (maybe months?) before he finally succumbed to his bloodlust, so in some ways, maybe that is a special trait of his?

[GOTSB’s reply:] So in this case the virus would act a bit more like HIV–you can carry it around for a while, and it may activate within a year or ten years. I like this, because it makes it more understandable why the turning rates are so different.

Loss of Sanity: As observed in Level E’s, Level D’s appear to lose their sanity and become obsessed with the thought of bloodlust (the fall to Level E). This could be a consequence of trying to escape the master-servant relationship between Purebloods and Level D’s. However, I also want to remind everyone that Level D’s are people that were originally human, so to have their life altered by desiring blood would harm them psychologically. Similarly to how in the beginning of Tokyo Ghoul Kaneki was unable to accept the fact that he lost his humanity and could no longer live as a human, I’d expect Level D’s to go through the same psychological torture - In fact, I think it would be the same pattern. I think Level D’s would go through weeks, maybe months of denial that they lost their humanity. As such, they would try to suppress and ignore their bloodlust because acting on it would make them have to view themselves as “monsters.” You would also expect them to be ashamed of the fact that they are no longer like the people (humans) that are around them and so they would probably isolate themselves, which also has psychological consequences (people need to be social in some way). Along with the trauma of being attacked by a Pureblood (or vampire in general), self-hate, isolation, and depression, I think it only makes sense that former humans would lose their sanity, and thus, fall to Level E with their bloodlust consuming them. This might also explain why Level E’s are unable to quench their thirst as blood does not seem to help their desire or their state of mind. I would not expect Purebloods to care about this and in times of war, the only people who would be affected would be humans, which again, helps Purebloods and vampires in general.

[GOTSB’s reply:] This coupled with the “call” of the Master/Servant bond (which we know about from Kaname’s memories) would be a very potent case for the fall to Level E, so I agree with you here. Plus these people are ostracized and isolated from all societies with nowhere to turn–vampires care little for them and humans would understandably fear them. To be turned traumatically and then enslaved or isolated would naturally lead to insanity, and then the bloodlust would just take over. 

A cure: If we actually view vampirism in Level D’s as a cause of a virus, then, technically, there wouldn’t necessarily be a cure since viruses are so difficult to fight off. Since I’m in Microbiology, I also want to emphasize that there is a difference between bacteria and viruses since many bacteria are not harmful to us. In fact, some viruses, bacteriophages, can even harm bacteria. Harmful bacteria, however, are easier to treat (with an antibiotic). Moving on, I think it would make more sense for the characters to search for a cure for former humans since they are victims of being attacked by a Pureblood. It’s better than not giving former humans any form of compensation and simply waiting for them to “cause” their own demise (at the expense of their sanity) and kill them. It would be nice if they could shoot a drug at Level E’s instead that would knock them out and reverse the effects of the virus within some span of time, but due to the nature of viruses, it would be difficult to create something like this. If there were to be a cure, though, I think it would have to be something that could be administered within a short time span, say anywhere from 1 to 72 hours (72 hours would really be pushing it).

[GOTSB’s reply:] Well, right, if it’s viral there’d be nothing to be done for the currently turned Level Ds. All you could do is create an anti-virus to inculcate the population with. Sadly, I think the “cure” is going to be for the Purebloods only, as that seems to be the “problem” Aidou and co. care about, which is a shame because it ignores the suffering of the Level Ds/Es. 

Why a single cure wouldn’t work: Well, first of all, I don’t even think they should look for a cure for vampires, which I’ll explain later (-_-) In any case, a single cure wouldn’t work because you would be targeting different genes for every single different class of vampire. I’ll also expand on this more in my next submission about why I do not agree with Aidou’s cure/research from why it doesn’t make sense scientifically to the ethics behind it.

[GOTSB’s reply:] Agreed with you that a single cure probably won’t work, though whether Hino agrees is up for debate (given that vampires are still around when Kaname awakens, though, methinks you’re onto something here–perhaps the “cure” Aidou makes only works for Purebloods, leaving Level Ds/Es in the cold). Looking forward to the rest of your thoughts on Aidou’s research and crap ethics! =)

So yeah… That’s all I got ’(^__^) I was hoping I could come up with a valid explanation of how Purebloods turn humans into vampires, but part of it fell through (  .__.) I guess you could theorize that Purebloods carry some sort of toxin/chemical that could act as a mutagen, but… that involves a lot of chemistry and probably *deep breath* ORGANIC CHEMISTRY, the most hated of all, and I do not know a lot of biologists that would happily explain chemistry XD Nonetheless, I hope you and everyone else found some of this interesting. Maybe you can create some other theories off of this.

Well, until next time!

[GOTSB’s reply:] Haha, I think you did a great job here, and even if it’s not complete, it’s much better than the surface level interpretations I started with, which were only vague thoughts. =) So thank you for taking the time to dive into this, and I’m looking forward to your next post if you still feel like chatting!

[dxscxndxnts]

I've been wondering about school credits and I'd like to hear yoir thoughts. We know they have villain geared classes like "Scheming" and "Self-absorption" on the Isle, with some basic science and history thrown in. But how would that transfer to Auradon? Do you think VKs have a lot of basic "hero/princess" classes to catch up on for their diplomas?

Hello Amazing Anon, thank you for the question! I love questions like this! 😍😍😍😍😍😍

Thinking about the education system on the Isle, there are a bunch of classes that sound like evil classes (Evilectives? Villectives? Take your pick). I don’t think those credits would transfer at all. (No Uma, AP does not stand for Advanced Piracy is Auradon) Why would they transfer? There is probably no equivalent of those classes in Auradon, and they teach evil.

About the ‘common core’ classes like science and history, I don’t think those classes would carry either. The only credible teacher on the Isle of the Lost is Yen Sid, and he can’t teach every single core class. When I think about villains teaching subjects–history especially–I think of all of the governments in the past that have taught their youth a different history to further brainwash them into a certain mindset (The best example I can think of is Nazi Germany teaching their Arian youth a specially designed myth about a chivalrous crusade that they descended from and were to grow up to be like. Another example is what American kindergarten teaches us about Thanksgiving). I’m sure the teachers at Dragon Hall and Serpent Prep, since they’re mostly villains, will teach falsehoods. They’ll say all of their schemes were right and everything the King says is wrong. The VKs would show up to Auradon and say “Wait, Gaston wasn’t defending a long established relationship with Belle?” Or “I thought Jafar was the rightful sultan.” Their history, and probably all of their other subjects, will be twisted by the villains’ biased and surely outdated knowledge.

I’m also positive that the villain kids were encouraged to fail and/or skip these classes. (Show them how bad you really are, kids!) The skipping of core classes is what leads to lines like “Never learned how to count ‘cause I’m number one.”

If the Auradon Prep Board of Education cares about rewriting the wrongs that these kids have been fed with a rusted spoon, then they will compensate for all of their classes. We do see evidence of this. In Descendants, we see a class called Remedial Goodness 101. It was a new class because no one had ever needed to take Remedial Goodness until the villain kids arrived.

Basically, transferring villain kids will include baseline placement tests, and we will see 21-year-olds in eighth grade level classes, but it’s not the kids fault. It’s the villains’ fault.

Damn, this might be a metaphor for modern education.

I hope this was a good answer! Thanks again for asking! 😁

[disneygirl2202]

Bullies (Carlos x reader)

Requested by anon  Request:  I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the story Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde but if you are, can you do a Disney Descendants one-shot where Henry Jekyll used a potion to separate himself from Edward Hyde (thus making him and Hyde have separate bodies) and Hyde was sentenced to prison in Auradon rather than being sent to the Isle and Henry is the science teacher at the school and the reader (Henry’s daughter) sees Carlos being bullied and stands up for him then they end up dating? No smut.

“Dad, why do you insist that we have so much homework?” You ask as you walk into his classroom

“Cause it helps you learn the material you learn in this class.” He says, looking at you over his computer

“Doesn’t mean you need to give me that much. You know fully well that I know the material.” You say

“Sorry dear, you know I have to be fair with all my students.” He says

“Yeah, yeah.” You say with a laugh

You set your bag down and start to work on your homework when you decide to look out the window, seeing a group of students start to walk somewhere.

You decide to get up and go see what they had started to walk towards. You then hear them start to make fun of somebody.

You continued to make your way towards them, knowing that you needed to stop them. When you finally reach the group, you see one of the VKs getting bullied. You shoved your way through the group and stood in front of him.

“Seriously you guys? I thought you were better than this. Just because he mother is a villain, doesn’t mean he is. You saw them at the coronation, they made their choice. Now leave him alone before I report you to Fairy Godmother or my dad.” You say

The students look at you and just shake their head, slowly turning around, and walking away.

“You didn’t have to stick up for me like that.” He says

“Yeah I did. Nobody should have to go through that.” You say

“Thanks. I’m Carlos de Vil by the way.” He say

“Y/N Jekyll.” You say

“Science teacher’s daughter?” He asks

“Yeah. I’m pretty sure I am in the same class as you.” You say

-~-

A few weeks had gone by since you had stuck up for Carlos, ever since then, you two had been hanging out a lot.

“Hey Y/N, would you like to maybe be more than friends?” Carlos all of a sudden asked as you two were hanging out in the forest  

“What?” You ask, looking at him

“I like you a lot more than a friend Y/N, and I guess I’m asking you to be my girlfriend.” He says

“I would love that Carlos.” You say with a smile

[zerolover66]

While I'm never into incest, I still like HaruxJuuri. I think it's more important to focus on the chemistry and journey. I'm sure zekis like HarukaJuuri for its true love, doesn't matter incest or not. I know some fans are salty when zekis are hating on yume but at the same time love HarukaJuuri, even doing all the paralells.

Hi anon. I too have never had a problem with Haruka and Juuri. I also don’t ship Haruka and Juuri.  However I do understand their importance to the story. I really don’t have many ships in VK because we weren’t given enough of their backgrounds for me to invest in the other ships. I do like Senri and Rima. If you asked me why the only answer I can give is something about them reminds me of zeki and I like their laid back nothing really gets them excited attitudes.

So just for the record I would like to say that incest is and never was the reason I personally have NEVER shipped Kaname and Yuuki. I find that couple detestable because of what that relationship did to my heroine of VK. I find it unacceptable to emotionally or physically abuse or manipulate any woman let alone a naive 16/17 year old girl. That relationship not only stole my heroine’s smile but her personality and zest for life. That is why I don’t ship them. 

 I am 100% against incest in reality but I am also capable of reading or watching fiction that has it. I think of VK as a separate fantasy world. Where vampires and hunters exist. Purebloods are not human and they really are only fictional characters. Of course there are some who feel uncomfortable with the topic no matter what and their opinions are also to be respected. 

In royalty from years gone by they actually did only inbreed to keep their bloodline clean and pure. So in reality royalty really did this. Of course it’s a taboo subject and in most parts of the world completely unacceptable now. But it really was a regular occurrence in royal lines of the past. Science has shown all of the problems inherent in children born to incestuous relationships. So it really is not acceptable in a civilized society today.

Also liking or disliking Haruka and Juuri as a couple has absolutely nothing to do with liking or disliking Kaname and Yuuki as a couple. They are completely different even if they have mild similarities. From what Hino has shown us I have seen no signs of emotional or physical abuse from Haruka to Juuri unlike Kaname to Yuuki. So that is why I don’t have a problem with the Haruka and Juuri couple.

Thanks for dropping by :)

[getoffthesoapbox]

VK Science I - Vmpr & Prbd Gene

Soo… I don’t feel like creating a temporary email just for this discussion, so yeah… This is already a “fake email” that I use for my beyond dead account and my currently abandoned fanfic. Not sure if my email is noticeable to everyone, but if it is, I don’t really care which name you decide to call me by lol. And if you’re wondering, I’m trying to quickly reply because there were a lot of concepts that were misunderstood and I don’t want to give misinformation or a theory that makes no sense (Plus, I have the longest break before my class). 

And ah, I love @imaginarylights! Their edits are always pretty :) Anyway, I just figured life caught with you up, and yes, I did resend my ask, but I guess tumblr didn’t like it *side-eyes*.

*Note: I tried to make things easier to understand by writing them as points, so hopefully this helps. Let me know, I guess?

Humans carrying Vmpr gene: So what I actually meant was that your original theory from our first discussion assumes that all humans (past & current) naturally contain a genetic sequence that codes for vampires except the gene is normally turned off. I do NOT agree with this because if you actually try to map out the transfer of alleles or even create a punnet square (granted, it’s already difficult with the lack of evidence like I stated earlier), you would expect humans to birth vampires, including Purebloods, more frequently regardless of the time period in VK. Obviously, this isn’t the case, so no, humans do not carry this gene at all.

The Prbd gene: like I said in past msgs, this would be developed in the Progenitors during human development in the womb where a mutation likely occurred during replication, repair, or even crossing over during meiosis. This just means that, technically, a “misarrangement” of DNA ended up coding for the traits we see in Purebloods. Since there are so few Purebloods, you would expect this gene to be recessive or “rare.”

Arguments: You could argue that it’s also the nature of Purebloods in VK and how they do not reproduce often and many of them were killed off early on in wars. Considering the different levels of vampires and even Senri’s rank, though, I think it just comes down to a gene that is rarely passed on. Although, you could also look at it as that Hino wanted Purebloods to be rare to emphasize the Kuran family’s prestige and nobility, ultimately making Yuuki and Kaname “special” characters in comparison to others.

The environment: I’m not taking back what I said from earlier msgs - I still think it played a role in the ways I stated earlier.

“Failed” or “incomplete” Purebloods (I don’t know how you would want to word that): In short, these people expressed partial traits of what we would now in VK consider the Prbd gene. Because they didn’t express the full gene, their fitness was lower, so they did not have a good chance of surviving and passing on their genes. Therefore, these people would not encompass the Progenitors, thus, lowering the Progenitors numbers.

Your questions: Hopefully my point about humans helped clarify some things. As far as humans duration of pregnancy for Purebloods and “teething,” I can’t answer these questions because I am not the author, sorry. This would all be speculation that has no basis because there doesn’t appear to be any evidence to support any claims.

The Vmpr gene: Basically Levels A through C (Pureblood to Average) vampires would express this (dominant) gene as it encompasses the very nature and expression of vampires. As such, this would mean the Progenitors underwent several mutations prior to birth as this gene would be at a different loci (location on the chromosome). Although, considering how the two are related, I would expect the genes to be relatively close to each other in terms of distance.

Charisma: I’ve seen it mentioned in the manga, but I don’t recall seeing it shown. However, I would presume that vampires have more pheromones to attract humans or that humans are just more attracted to vampires for some psychological reason that I can’t answer.

Blood satisfaction: To me, this is more of a plot device, similarly to the argument of why Purebloods are rare. I think it’s something Hino added for the sake of the love triangle as a way to add drama and romance. To argue that there’s some sort of genetic or scientific basis for this is like saying that there are predestined soulmates that people are fated to fall in love with, which is determined by their DNA… Which just seems odd… There might be a psychological reason, but that’s not my major.

Why I was salty: It’s hard to determine the offspring of mixed classes of vampires and even with humans because we are not shown any examples. Based on her lore, the simple answer is that based on the level of vampire parent(s), the children will fall somewhere in between as seen by (my love lol) Senri’s rank as an Aristocrat. In the case of Ren, I have no idea. Of course that’s not how genetics works and is confusing when considering the children between Average vampires and humans since some may be human (-.-)

Zero: I didn’t use Zero as evidence for vampires reactions to sunlight because Zero was not born as a vampire. My whole theory only encompassed Level A to C and I thought he was a Level D. Regardless, he wouldn’t carry the Vmpr gene and as such, he falls under my next theory that I hope to present, which is how Purebloods turn humans into “vampires” and how Level D and E are different (genetically and otherwise) from the other classes of vampires.

Hunter genes: I know it’s a possible counterargument and my answer is that I still have no idea how Hino’s “pseudo-science” works with hunters, so… Imma side-eye that. Maybe I’ll eventually come up with a theory that can explain her lore and hunters, but until then, I’m not going to address it.

So I don’t know how long this ended up being since I no longer have a limit LOL, but I hope it wasn’t too long. Nonetheless, I hope this helped clarify everything! Let me know if you have any more questions before I move on to my next theory.

Until next time!

I figured your poor ask had been gobbled by the tumblr gremlins again; this new submission post system seems to work much better (and it allows you to have more freedom to outline your points, which I’m sure everyone following our crazy discussion will appreciate). =) Plus it’s easier to respond to, fufu!

@Humans carrying Vmpr gene: Thanks for clarifying this one for me. So you’re saying if humans naturally carried the vmpr gene, we’d see it more frequently across time (even if it was still rare on the whole) rather than all at once in a clump like what Hino implies, which makes it unlikely as a possible explanation. I can definitely get behind that. 

@The Prbd gene: It’s fairly undeniable there was an environmental component to the development of the gene, so we’re in agreement there. (That’s the one thing Hino pretty much directly implies in the story.) And lol @ the Purebloods needing to be rare in order to make the Kurans “special”. (I would not be surprised about this one.) And my questions regarding vampire pregnancy and teething were more speculative in nature anyway; just wanted to know if you had any thoughts on how a human giving birth to a Pureblood would go, given how long it takes Purebloods to develop within fellow Purebloods (though perhaps this is more due to the fact that Pureblood female wombs have other toxins that slow natural development that a human’s wouldn’t, who knows–again, just speculating). Admittedly the whole teething business was a recent addition on Hino’s part, but it’s a bit of a horrifying process to contemplate given the progenitors arrived with human parents who knew nothing of the process.

@The Vmpr gene: Oh that’s quite interesting that there’d be several mutations prior to birth . So of course for Levels A through C you’d expect some kind of vampiric gene dominance. What would your thoughts be on Level Ds like Zero and the other turned humans? Would they pass on human genetics or vampiric ones if paired with, say, a human, rather than a vampire? (Obviously Zero’s kids would be partially vampiric due to Yuuki being his partner.) 

@Charisma: You see this pop up in the story at various points–Rido uses it against Aidou during the Rido battle back in arc 1 (Aidou’s eyes go glassy and he becomes mesmerized until Yuuki has to snap him out of it) and Yuuki when he takes over that kid at the vampire ball where she mopes about Kaname and Sara, and also during the Sara arc everyone’s always commenting on how Yuuki doesn’t have any charisma and Sara’s busy mesmerizing nobles and humans alike. It appears to be from what Hino establishes a sort of “aura” around the Purebloods that draws the eye (she usually uses sparkles or some other screentone to show it). Anyway, my thought was increased pheromones of some kind myself, though admittedly it doesn’t particularly matter and could just be a natural part of the “whole package” of the gene and more of a social side effect rather than an intentional one.

@Blood satisfaction: Okay, I just wanted to confirm you didn’t think this whole bit was scientifically valid from a genetic perspective, as I’m personally also of the opinion that this is just a romantic plot device. ;) I can definitely get behind the idea that it’s potentially just psychological on the part of the Purebloods and has no actual basis on whether or not they should be satisfied with X or Y amount of blood taken from random or less loved parties.

@Mixed Children: That’s really interesting that average/human mixes might have human genetic dominance (at least if this was genetically sound fufu). So do you think it’s possible for Purebloods (or a Pureblood/Noble mix, or Pureblood/Average) to have a throwback human child? Come to think of it, you know, the Hunters having a small amount of the Vmpr gene creates humans with some of the genetic traits–such as Kaien’s long life and youthful appearance, despite his lack of fangs. How interesting would it have been for Hino to have a human or more human expressing Pureblood or Noble character? *ahem* But yeah, it’s a shame Hino was so focused on the top of the hierarchy we never got to see any characters from the lower ends, where the struggles would be more common. 

@Zero: Oh great you’re going to dig into the Level Ds/Es in your next theory. Then I’ll wait to badger you about Zero’s specialness until after you’ve had a chance to dive in. =) (And lol, yes, it’s kinda…bizarre how the Hunters ended up being able to pass down certain vampire genes by just…eating?…the Hooded Woman. Like…pretty sure that’s not how that works lol. But hey, whaddoo I know? XD)

Anyway, don’t you worry a thing about how long your posts are! You have plenty of space now, and if my own responses get too lengthy, I can just put them under a cut now. =) 

Looking forward to your theory on how turning works!

[getoffthesoapbox]

Let’s start with our first discussion and the points you made. You theorized that a gene(s) was switched on/off, which is a concept in genetics however this would typically be seen during the production of a protein as a response to a stimulus. As I mentioned before (a lot lol), this could occur in the case of a virus that switches a gene on to cause a cell to continue to grow endlessly, which eventually leads to the development of a tumor. But… we’re not talking about that. (3/?)

You were actually talking about the expression of genes, but since we can actually see traits of vampires like bloodlust, these would be phenotypes, physical expressions. These types of genes will (normally) not be switched on/off. For example, my DNA isn’t going to regulate that I sometimes express brown eyes and other times don’t. And while, yes, having a gene that is normally turned off turn on by some outside factor is a form of a mutation, this theory assumes that all humans in VK… (4/?)

Considering the basic traits of all vampires as pale skin, beauty, immunity, fangs, nocturnal, and experiencing bloodlust, we can argue that these traits embody the Vmpr gene, making it pleiotropic, a gene that leads to multiple expressions. This would be the basis that determines whether someone is a vampire or a human. However, you could argue that their beauty can be related to their pale skin due to the different beauty standards across cultures. (6/?)

Although from an ecological perspective, enhanced beauty would help them easily attract their prey. You could also argue that their circadian rhythm is nocturnal because their prey (humans) would be tired and unable to see well in the dark, which could lead to them having pale skin since they wouldn’t need as much melanin, a natural sunscreen. This is based on the basis that although adaptations help organisms, they just need to be “good enough” to ensure survival and reproduction. (7/?)

(Salty and was blocked T.T) This also explains why Yuuki and Takuma both referred to the sun as harsh, and why Senri gets sunburned easily. You could also argue that fangs are coded by more than one gene since they might have varying lengths. Continuing with that thought, speed, strength, and mortality vary across the different levels of vampires (well, I’m not sure about speed), so these would be polygenic traits, where more than one gene codes for a trait. (8/?)

It’s also interesting to note that Aristocrats are genetically different from Average vampires as evident by their abilities and not just their wealth. As for the inheritance of abilities for Aristocrats, I’m not exactly sure how this would be coded since we’re not shown, for example, what abilities the child of parents that can manipulate ice or fire would have. I also don’t recall being shown what level the child of an Average and Pureblood vampire would be (9/?)

Moving on to Purebloods, their traits appear to be similar (control of other vampires, turning humans, death by injury to head or heart), so this appears to be another case of a pleiotropic gene that can be referred to as the “Prbd” gene. Ok, so considering everything I said, it’s possible that the Progenitors had mutations at multiple loci (locations of genes), which would explain the numerous genes that code for vampires. (10/?)

And another reason why the Progenitors were rare could be that there actually were some “potentials” that had deleterious genes that decreased their fitness. For example, some may not have had fangs that were sharp enough to effectively consume blood, were not fast enough or able to see well in the dark to hunt. As such, these people would not compose of the Progenitors, as they would probably die relatively early and, thus, limited the Progenitors numbers. (11/?)

Of course, this is taking a more “traditional” view on vampire lore by considering the concept of predator vs. prey, but… Hino kind of tossed that out the window by not making human blood a necessity. So now, there’s the difficulties of mapping this all out in a genetic pathway, which still doesn’t make sense to me in terms of patterns of inheritance, but I’m no expert or geneticist for that matter. Plus… again, fiction. I’m trying to work with what I got here lol :P (12/?)

Ack, I left you hanging on this for over a week; mea culpa. Initially I was waiting for your update for the missing ask we’d discussed previously, but then I got distracted by my new game and didn’t even glance back at tumblr once. >_

Also, @imaginarylights mentioned to me that it might save you a lot of trouble in the future if I opened up submission posts for you. I’ve done so here; if you want to remain anon, you can, but it does require an email address (if you want to be anonymous, you’ll have to sign out of your tumblr account if you use one). I’d recommend just making your name VK Science Anon and creating a temp email or something, that way you can preserve your anonymity if you don’t want to use your real email address. =) But it’s up to you. Anyway, this is now at your disposal if you’d like, that way we don’t have to worry about tumblr eating your asks or giving you limitations. =)

Housekeeping aside, to respond to your thoughts:

Okay so now we’re getting in deeper into genetics than my own pop culture genetic understanding goes, which is great, but I don’t have a lot to say to this one, fufu. I’m trying to wrap my head around this in more of a layman’s form but what you’re saying (I think) is that the initial “prbd” gene (fufu) is one that basically was there at inception for the progenitors, because the traits they exhibit are relatively uniform (with some variants of course) across the board, which narrows us down to this having to be in place for the progenitors since their conception, rather than some kind of external or environmentally induced factor affecting them later on in their lives. The pressure on the genes to express prbd instead of human would have had to have come when they were still egg/sperm mode (or perhaps during development?). Am I understanding that right?

What would influence a regular human’s genetic legacy to switch into this prbd gene? Are you thinking human DNA just always had the ability to express the prbd genes but for whatever reason never did until whatever X factor led to the expression? And since it hadn’t ever expressed itself before, there would obviously be failed expressions of it (such as the shorter fangs, or insufficient blood intake you were mentioning). So okay we know Purebloods need 2-4 years to gestate in a Pureblood parent. What does that mean for the regular humans who birthed the progenitors? Did they just have long pregnancies? And we know Purebloods eat energy until they’re around 8/9, then they “teethe” and their fangs extend–what does that mean for the human parents of the progenitors? Did the Ancestress make her parents her servants accidentally? (Sorry, this is a tangent I know, but it was a disturbing track my mind leapt to that I realized wasn’t ever addressed.)

Anyway, your thoughts on why they would have enhanced beauty and lighter skin make sense to me; they’re about in line with what I’d expect. (Traditionally vampires are pale ‘cause, well, they’re dead, but Hino’s aren’t so evolution for night activity makes more sense.) I think the bigger thing than their beauty though, and this is touched on in the story, at least as far as attracting prey, is charisma. That seems to be the key mechanism for drawing prey to them. That I can definitely see as some kind of genetic expression as well; it enhances or increases some hormone or something that increases personal magnetism. 

Side note, but Zero isn’t really bothered much by the sun (at least not as much as the other vampires). Which is kind of odd, given he’s the lowest class. Do you think this might just be because of his own weird genes which were able to combat the vampiric ones in the womb? So maybe even as a vampire his genes still express more human traits?

I do think predator vs. prey was Hino’s idea for the reasons why vampires were the way they were in her stories, but then she sort of threw a wrench into the mix with the whole “blood of the one you love” business (and that’s more a romantic thing than anything; it’s likely not going to hold up to scientific scrutiny). But I do think on the whole at least we still have predator vs. prey going on. What are your thoughts on how the whole blood satisfaction thing fits into the greater genetic picture? 

I don’t think we’ve seen anyone who is Pureblood/Average, Pureblood/Servant, or Pureblood/human yet. Ren is an anomaly probably given how bizarre Zero’s genetics are (he seems to have Pureblood-attracting charisma and human gene dominance), but Ren’s about the closest we have. Shiki is the only Pureblood/Noble. The rest of the NC appears to be Noble/Noble or Noble/Average at best. We do know that Noble/Human can have children thanks to Aidou and Yori, but what exactly Aidou’s child is with Yori Hino hasn’t seen fit to explore. 

Anyway, sorry again for keeping you hanging here and for my inept response lol. Please carry on with your thoughts when/if you have time! =) 

[getoffthesoapbox]

(VK Science) I think there’s also an inconsistency with turning people into vampires. The Hooded Woman supposedly gave her blood to humans, which turned them into the first vampire hunters. Honestly, I don’t understand why that would be necessary when her heart created anti-vampire weapons, which humans should be able to touch/use hence the name. Anyway, this contradicts the first arc of the story when Rido gives Ichiru a vial of his blood to turn Yuuki back into a pureblood.

Back to the first hunters, I would think that drinking the Hooded Woman’s blood would turn them into Level D’s since in Sara’s arc it appears that drinking a Pureblood’s blood turns people into servants. Also, I don’t even see how drinking her blood would enable them to inherit her genes… But then there’s the whole “magic” of Purebloods turning other vampires into humans, which doesn’t seem to be the same process between Yuuki and her mom, so I honestly don’t know what Hino is going with here :/

I love this ask; it’s a great opportunity to broach a theory I’ve always had in the back of my mind since the ancestor history was revealed. =P~~~

Okay, so to start with the first part of your ask–this is what I can glean from the lore we have:

A vampire’s blood can heal illness if fed to a human (dosage unknown). We know this from Shizuka and Ichiru. Shizuka never bit Ichiru, but she gave him blood. Feeding blood supposedly doesn’t turn humans into vampires, but it can potentially be lethal to them. 

To “turn” a human into a vampire (or a former Pureblood back into a vampire a la Yuuki), all that needs to be done is for the Master Pureblood to bite the human (or former Pureblood). If the newly turned vampire does not drink their master’s blood, they will descend to Level E at some point. 

To “complete” a Level D vampire and ensure they don’t descend to Level E, the Level D must drink their master’s blood. (See the crisis over Zero when Shizuka was killed before he could drink her.)

As for Sara, I’m fairly certain she bit her girls first. She “got permission” (*snort*) and then turned them and fed them her blood to “complete” them.  

Juri and Yuuki/ Isaya and his wife/Yuuki and Kaname are all part of the pureblood!sacrifice!magicz! that seems to have no scientific basis whatsoever. XD (Also like…why was Juri’s spell doomed to fail, and why did Kaname magically know that when Yuuki was still a kid? Nobody knows ‘cause Hino never said! So many loose ends!)

The issue with Yuuki and Rido was that Rido was going to give her his blood and reactivate her memories without actually turning her, I do believe. Basically he was going to do to her what the Hooded Woman’s blood did to some of the hunters–give her a huge dosage and see if she dies/goes mad. Since he wasn’t going to bite her, it wouldn’t turn her back into a vampire to help her cope. I think this is what the ultimate goal probably was (however, I admit that Hino probably was just pulling crap out of her rear during the Rido section and that this is probably an inconsistency). Kaname spares her from this, because he bites her (turns her) and gives her his blood (completes her and spares her from madness).

There’s also the bizarre case of Rido being Kaname’s master despite…only feeding Kaname his blood and baby Kaname’s blood. Yet somehow Rido is Kaname’s master, so I’m assuming? allowing someone to drink your blood makes them your master as well? (Lol inconsistencies again.) This would retcon Shizuka and Ichiru though, because the very reason Shizuka wouldn’t turn Ichiru was because she didn’t want to be his master… *sigh* You’re right, this story’s science (and honestly lore in general) is just bunk. ;D

Okay now that all that’s out of the way, the Hooded Woman’s case is a interesting. I reread the official translations, and it appears the humans on their own weren’t strong enough to wield the weapons for “reasons” (I’ll get to my speculation on those in a minute). The stated reason in the story for the offering of blood was to strengthen them to wield the weapons. She gives them her blood, and a portion of them die ‘cause the blood is probably toxic to them (her dosage was probably much higher than what Shizuka gave Ichiru). The ones who survive probably have some kind of gene switched on or tampered with or mutated or altered to allow them to pass on the ability to wield the weapons genetically. (This is where we devolve into Hino’s ridiculous pseudo-magic!science for “reasons”!) Oddly, the hunters aren’t the only ones who can wield the weapons–Kaname can too, but no other Purebloods can. 

My ancient theory for why the hunters need the Hooded Woman’s blood (and why Kaname and his lineage can also wield the weapons) is that the weapons can only be wielded by her because they’re extensions of her body. Therefore only those who have her blood in them can wield them. 

This would explain why the Kurans a.) become so powerful as a family and b.) begin the incest tradition–they would want to keep the ability to wield the weapons “in the family” so to speak, because if ALL the Purebloods could wield the weapons, there’d be no darn point to creating them. =P 

There are two problems with this theory though: 

Rido was betrothed to Shizuka, and he also had a child with Shiki’s mother. If Kurans weren’t supposed to marry/have offspring outside the family in order not to spread the genes around, Rido/Haru/Juri’s parents royally screwed up.

The sword Kaname wields in arc 2 rejects him but still allows him to wield it? Yuuki’s scythe also initially rejects her until it accepts her? Why do they do this? Nobody knows… It is a mystery.

Don’t know where I’m going with this, but…there are so many inconsistencies! XD What sucks the most is that Hino just brings all this information up randomly in passing and then…never fully explains/addresses it. I wonder if she even has a notebook of worldbuilding to reference. *sigh*

[getoffthesoapbox]

VK Science II - Odds & Ends

So I thought about it, but I hope my straightforward answers don’t come across as condescending! Aside from being blunt, I try not to write too much, but I guess it’s not a problem now? ’(^_^) In any case, before I get to the next theory I want to respond to some of your points :)

Your answers didn’t come off as condescending at all, don’t worry! You just seemed like a typical science-oriented person wanting to make sure everything was accurate before proceeding, which I completely respect.  (I have a thick skin anyway, and I’m fairly blunt myself though without as lofty a reason, fufu. ;D) But yes, feel free to write to your heart’s content, as long posts are a speciality of my blog anyway!

Pureblood Pregnancy: The reason why I can’t answer this is because Hino has full creative freedom to create whatever duration of pregnancy she would like for humans birthing Purebloods :/ Would you expect it to be longer? Probably. Honestly, though, I already don’t agree with her concept of Purebloods having a range of duration of pregnancy rather than a set time as most other organisms do (O_o)

Teething: This could be another reason why the Purebloods were scattered as I would think that this process would terrify their parents and even lead some to, sadly, label their children as “monsters,” abandon them, and leave them for death.

Well, of course Hino can do whatever she wants with the narrative elements; she could go off the rails (and has) if she wants and we’d be stuck having to try to pretend it makes sense. I honestly found her making the pregnancies 2-4 years to be just a ridiculous method to excuse Yuuki’s teen pregnancy and allow her to give birth in her twenties. I don’t think when Hino originally came up with VK that she ever intended the pregnancies to last longer than the human terms–it’s just that Hino needed to make the accident pregancy “acceptable” to shoujo audiences. This is just my personal theory, but for the sake of the story I’d say that the reason Pureblood pregnancies last longer is probably due to maladapted hormones of some kind that require the fetus to gestate longer in order to fully develop. Originally, before the Kaname magic pregnancy, Hino made it clear in arc 2 that Purebloods had a difficult time conceiving (hence why Haruka and Juri only had two kids despite living 3K+ years, and why the Pureblood numbers were shrinking despite them being immortal). That’s just my current thought from where we are, fufu. Really, though, I think it was just Hino trying to make Yuuki’s unacceptable teen pregnancy more palatable. =P

The Vmpr gene: In regards to your question… I’m not exactly sure since we’re not shown any examples. Not just that, but I intend to view human-turned-vampires (I always wonder if I word this write .-.) from a disease perspective. Based on my theory… I guess they would always code for humans since it’s a disease acquired later in life. In Zero’s case, I want to say that they would be human since the majority of Zero’s genes code for human and, again, I do not view the Level D’s as carrying the Vmpr gene, but… Well, maybe my next theory will help ’(^_^)

My thought was in line with yours that Zero (and any other Level Ds/Es) would code for human if paired with a human partner. Yuuki’s Pureblood would obviously be dominant, which would probably place Ren as a Level C or perhaps a Noble at best. 

Charisma: OHHH (O_O) Yeah, I just viewed those scenes as “hypnotism” rather than “charisma.” I see people’s willingness to listen to and follow Kaname as a result of charisma rather than Rido manipulating (hypnotizing) Aidou - they’re two completely different cases. As far as Yuuki’s charisma, I saw it as how she was primarily raised human and wasn’t sure how to act as a Pureblood princess (an authoritative position), so she lacked the same noble nature Kaname and even Sara exude that would attract others. In short, I think it comes down to how you define “charisma” in VK XD

Well Hino’s notorious for not directly explaining things and leaving things up for interpretation, but she makes a point of having the nobles fawn over Kaname in the first arc that he doesn’t use his charisma against the other vampires, implying that it’s an actual ability (if I remember right; it’s been a while since I’ve revisited arc 1). This would of course imply that his personal magnetism could be amplified to control his fellows (which he actually does when he murders the council). But this is assuming of course that charisma isn’t a social construct that the nobles have imagined due to their historical worship of the Purebloods. If it’s actually just in the nobles’ heads, then we’re just working with natural charm and Rido’s and Sara’s abilities are separate from the charisma. Either way, you’re spot on about Yuuki I think. Either she’s just deficient in charisma because she was turned back into Pureblood later in life, or because the Nobles saw her as human first, they can’t go into worship mode for her. Same results either way I suppose. XD

Mixed Children: …This is a weird title for this point considering how I am mixed LOL XD Technically, I can’t answer this, which goes back to why I was salty (=__=) In any case, I don’t think they would birth humans because vampirism is dominant. Due to the percentage of vampiric genes a Pureblood would be bringing in, it’s unlikely they would have a human child. The only evidence that kind of supports this is that it is implied (to my knowledge, at least) that the rise of the Aristocrats came from the Progenitors mixing with humans, which would follow the Night class’s explanation of the higher levels of “human blood” aka DNA as you go down the hierarchy…

Sorry, I couldn’t think of a better simple paraphrase to cover all the potential pairings. XD Hope I didn’t offend, lol. But okay, that makes sense that the vampiric gene would be dominant, so you wouldn’t have any human children cropping up unexpectedly (unless I guess there was another environmental shift that reversed things). 

NaCl: (  O_o) Ah… But are there Purebloods that have some human blood? Is that why the Kurans are powerful? ��Because they have none? Wait… What? UGH that changes everything! This is why I gave up on figuring out the inheritance of genes! X( And in the first place, WHY would the Kurans be the only ones? Huh? Huh?! Did everyone else just “conveniently” die? And I’m not supposed to side-eye that? Yeah, ok, I see you Hino (  T_T) *diffuses in high concentrations of Na+*

Haha, oh no, I don’t think I meant to imply that Purebloods have any human blood, only to question whether or not it was possible for them to birth a human child if the recessive traits lined up right I think? Obviously they’d have no human blood in them as they’d be the purest expression of the vmpr gene, right? Sorry, I got wound up with speculating what the story would be like if two Purebloods accidentally had a recessive human child or if there was a character who was a more human expressing Pureblood/Noble (such as, say, a Noble who had all the traits except no powers manifest, or a Pureblood who had bloodlust but no fangs, or short lived Purebloods, etc.). That was more speculation about where Hino could have taken the story. ;D (See, and here’s where my narrative theory tangenting comes into play, so just smack me when I go overboard, fufu.) But no, I think your theories are right on and it’s not an inconsistency on Hino’s part; it was just me rambling incoherently. XD No need for you to become a pillar of salt over it, methinks. =P

Zero: I’m getting ready to review my theory before sending it in a little bit. Before that, since you’re curious about Zero and I’m sure a lot of your followers are, could you emphasize some special traits of his that are mentioned in the story, so I don’t miss any? I’m not sure I’ll be able to cover them since his hunter genes will play a factor. If I can, I might make it a separate submission. I want to point out that I know that you’ll probably point out Zero delaying his fall to bloodlust and descent to vampirism, but I intend to cover this for Level D vampires in general.

Oh sure! The big one of course is that he overcame the twin curse in the womb, allowing his twin to be born rather than devoured (as vampiric twins are and as hunter twins are due to the vampiric genes they carry). The second unique one is that he can overcome the Master/Servant bond (where a Master can hijack and control his actions). The third, and this is only sort of implied by Takuma during the last battle with Sara, is that he seems to have a sort of weird “Pureblood charisma” effect–where he’s basically to the Purebloods what they are to the Nobles. For some inexplicable reason, they’re all drawn to him/entranced by him despite him being about as low class a vampire as you can get. It’s implied that this is all due to his ability to overcome the Master/Servant bond, but if that was all there was, only Shizuka should be interested in him because she’s his Master. 

As for Zero delaying his bloodlust and his fall, I never saw that as particularly unique to him as Zero (but of course we never got to see a normal person get turned and fall, so we have no idea how long the process usually takes). But given how chill Kaien was about it, and that both Kaien and Kaname seemed to expect “when” it would happen, the process Zero went through in this just seemed to be normal Level D experience in my estimation. Happy to hear your thoughts on this of course, but I myself never saw this as part of Zero’s special characteristics. 

Hunters: I know I said I wasn’t going to address this point, but I did look up some things regarding the hunters. Since the first hunters drank the Hooded Woman’s blood, they didn’t just consume her red blood cells, which contain no DNA, but her white blood cells, which do… Although, someone can double check me on that since I had to look that up. As for what that would do and how that fits into my theory scientifically, I’m not sure, but we know what happens in VK, so meh; we’re already ignoring blood types, so why not? I still don’t understand the science and how it would genetically alter a whole group of people, so that’s all I got for this point.

I didn’t know white blood cells contained genetic info but red didn’t! That’s a fun fact. XD /random nerd 

Well we can just assume that what happened was the Hooded Woman ordered her genes to meld with the Hunters’ legacies so they can pass them on to their children (we know the Purebloods have control over their blood within other people, so we can easily allow for the Hooded Woman to have given the order here, or perhaps the cells just did what they do and took over). 

Thanks for continuing this discussion with me! I’ll send in my next theory soon! Until then :)

I should be thank you for hanging in there with me while I dropped out to play games! =) Will be looking out for your next theory!

[getoffthesoapbox]

Hey, I hope you don't mind, but I was wondering if you could help me understand the science/biology in VK and the logic behind a cure. I understand it from a pacifist perspective, but it doesn't make sense to me in terms of classifications and genetics. Considering that Yori's grandkids attend her funeral, aren't vampires a subspecies to humans? I'm also surprised vampire-born is treated as a disease instead of human-turned-vampire. Plus, how would they go about treatment for all vampires? (O_O)

(Anon who asked about VK science) I didn’t have enough room to finish, sorry… But thinking about what I just said… I guess the cure would treat both naturally born vampires and human-turned, but I thought in the beginning there was a clear divide between the two. And in the case of just vampires, you would be looking at their DNA? Anyway, I just want to add that I just recently got back into the series, so I might be misunderstanding A LOT, but I love your (and everyone else’s) analyses :)

Oh, what a fun ask, my friend! Thanks for bringing it my way. ;)

I think a portion of the problem we have here is that…Hino is a lazy writer who knows her audience probably isn’t a bunch of scientists who can point out how crap her science is. Unfortunately, I’m a creative type myself, so I can’t point out whether her internal logic works or not on a scientific level, but I think I can help piece together what we do know, and then speculate further based on where I think she’s going with this. ;) You can let me know if I miss anything from where you’re standing.

Okay so, here’s what we know for sure:

Purebloods existed before 10,000 years ago, but they were scattered–a great climate change erupted and they suddenly realized there were more of them. (It’s kinda implied Kaname might be Dracula, since he forgot his name, lol.)

These first Purebloods are what we’d call the “Progenitors.” They are all born to human parents and were probably created by some sort of viral infection or it’s some kind of viral mutation that had permanent effects on the initial subjects (at least as far as I can tell within Hino’s worldbuilding), and something (never specified) happened to either “switch” certain people’s Pureblood genetics from “off” to “on” or it distorted an already existing gene into a Pureblood gene. Either way, the effect’s the same–something in the DNA got warped.

In other words, Purebloods are likely a species mutation or evolution, depending on how positively or negatively you want to view the genetic switch. This would make vampirism less of a disease (which would require an external parasite or bacteria) and more of an issue with the genes themselves (probably more akin to a spontaneous cancer, only one that actually effects more than just the internal organs)

Okay, so then you have the vampire “types” that spawn from Purebloods. Purebloods are the eternally lived types who can actually activate or give the vampire gene in/to other people (but this “enslaves” the new vampire to the sire thanks to the sire’s blood being in the new vampire’s bloodstream–Kaname calls this “poison” in the story, and it allows Purebloods to exert their will within other vampires). Purebloods, of course can’t be killed by anything before the invention of the anti-vampire weapons. Next up are nobles, who are probably the offspring of Purebloods and other vampires with the least amount of “human” in them. Nobles age faster, aren’t as long lived, and can’t make servants, giving them more “human” qualities (likely another mutation of the gene). Then there are Level Cs, who are likely the offspring of, say, humans and nobles (such as Aidou and Yori), who would also have shorter lifespans than nobles and be susceptible to regular weapons. Then there are Level Ds, who are the “turned” former-human vampires such as Zero. Then at last there are Level Es, who are Level Ds who go rabid because their formerly human bodies can’t deal with the vampire gene being switched on.

We can assume vampires lower than Pureblood can be killed by normal means (the literature is a little…contradictory on this; Kaname’s past implies people needed the weapons to deal with the massive army of Level D servants, but since only hunters can wield anti-v weapons, and since Takuma kills a Level E back in arc 1, at some point it must have been discovered that Level Es–who are really just insane Level Ds–can be killed by regular weapons). Ruka worries about Kain in VKM 12 after a bomb going off, which means Hino’s probably establishing that anything less than a Pureblood can be killed by normal human means. Plus, nobles and lower are no real threat to humanity since they can’t turn humans–they can only be a parasitic nuisance by stealing blood. No biggie, you can deal with them like regular criminals. The problem, as Kaname and the Hooded Woman note, is the Purebloods.

Ultimately the “cure” is mostly necessary for the Purebloods, but once it’s created, it should be able to take care of any lesser form of the vampiric gene, because all vampires come from the same “source” generally speaking–the Progenitors who had the genes switched on in the first place.

In the past, Kaname begins performing experiments to see if he can do something about the Purebloods’ ability to regenerate and turn humans. His research takes him into two directions: 1.) a weapon to destroy the Purebloods period, and 2.) a potential cure for vampirism. His research on #2 goes nowhere during the Ancestor period, and he leaves his records in the Kuran Manor basement. Instead, he manages to get a breakthrough on the weapons. The breakthrough on the weapons requires the sacrifice of the blood and heart of the person who will become them.

The Hooded Woman steals the march on Kaname, throws her heart in the forge, and feeds the remainder of her blood to the Hunters (thus creating a line of men and women who carry her genetics within their bodies, although they’re still human). This Hunter line is what eventually takes us to the future where Kaien, Zero and Ichiru are born. 

We know that the Hooded Woman’s genetics screw up the human birth process in women who carry hunter babies (whether the woman is hunter herself or human doesn’t matter). If that woman has twins, one twin will “eat” the other (this likely happens for vampires too). This is what is known as the “cursed twins.” Kaien is a completed one of these–a.k.a., a twin who ate his twin in the womb. 

Zero on the other hand is different from Kaien. Zero is the “first” twin to not eat his twin in the womb. Ichiru is born, and the fragment is not completed. Kaname takes a canon interest in this during the course of the story. The stated “reason” for this is that he just wanted to create a weapon against the Purebloods–but uh, if that was the case, any hunter should do for that purpose. =P What was unique about Zero was that his genetics defeated the vampiric genes within the womb. That meant there was “something special about Zero.”

Obviously something backfired during the course of the original series, and probably with Zero turning vampire Kaname gave up on his research since he felt Zero would be useless if he wasn’t human. Instead he switched to just using Zero as a shield for Yuuki and a potential monster against the Purebloods later on. However, it’s important to note that Kaname had the Night Class (and Aidou) creating the first tablets that could curb vampires’ thirst, so he was still experimenting with ways to fix the vampire problem.

Last, and this is also relevant, we know that any vampire can be turned human again by a Pureblood’s sacrificing their life. Isaya’s wife did this to their child, Juri did this to Yuuki, Yuuki does this to Kaname. Hino’s world science is settled that you can “flip off” the gene, and you can also flip it back on via another Pureblood biting and feeding the formerly-vampire human and turning them back. The narrative basically is solidly established that this gene can be flipped on and off with the right sacrifice. Unfortunately, this only works on a one-to-one basis (Isaya’s wife can only turn one child, Juri can only turn Yuuki, Yuuki can only turn Kaname, etc.) It doesn’t work for a universal cure. This is where Zero, or a Zero/Yuuki combination, or Ren will come in. ;)

At the end of the original series, we have it confirmed that Aidou was able to complete Kaname’s research and create a drug that turns vampires human, which could not be used on Kaname due to his heart being too scorched from the forge. So we know for sure that some way, somehow, Aidou was able to complete the cure. The only question is “how.”

Cue events of the story, and here we are in the present time with Aidou’s research picking up where Kaname left off.

What we know about the current state of the research:

Aidou discovers that there was a “missing component” that wasn’t found during Kaname’s Ancestor experimentation days (because Kaname’s notes are from before the sacrifice of the Hooded Woman.

This “missing component” is Kaien’s special genetics. We know Kaien is a completed twin with the Hooded Woman’s genetics in him.

Now, here’s where Hino gets kinda vague–we don’t know exactly what Aidou needs from Kaien. Is it a blood sample? Is it a bone sample? Is it a heart sample? Who knows! Likely a blood sample will do for now, so we’ll just “assume” for the sake of simplicity that’s what Aidou’s working with.

We know Aidou’s research is currently failing to accomplish what he wants, which means likely whatever’s going in Kaien’s blood is a step in the right direction, but it’s not the key to the cure. This brings us back to Zero, remember, who in the womb was able to defeat the twin curse. This means Zero’s genetics likely were able to “switch off” the vampiric genes within him. Kind of like people who are born to HIV+ parents who end up immune to HIV. (Yay evolution!)

What are the potential ways the cure might come about and be created, based on what Hino’s set up?

Okay the first way is the easiest–we just need blood donations! This variant requires no sacrifice on anyone’s part; Aidou just needs the requisite amount of blood from Zero (or Ren, or Zero and Yuuki together, or Kaien), and mix it in the right quantity with whatever else he’s got in his experiment, and presto chango, we have a pill vampires can take that can switch “off” the vampiric genes.

However, we know from the forge business that most of Kaname’s research required some kind of magic “sacrifice” on the part of the person providing the solution. The “cure” may also require some sort of sacrifice, such as a specific organ like a heart or the brain in addition to the blood. Or it may require that the subject be dead so that the gene can’t be “switched back” once it’s in the body of the cured subjects. Hino has a bit of magic in this story, so this is where the science gets a little fuzzy. ;) 

I had a very old theory (a long time ago, back when I thought Kaname was doing the cure solution in the original series) that you would need Zero to drink all the bloodlines of all the Purebloods in order to create the cure. (This was all based on an offhand comment Kaname makes in the 70s about feeling bad he has to “let” Zero drink from Sara). If this is the case, the cure may not be possible unless all “strains” of the genetic defect are accounted for within it–basically kind of like counteracting a bunch of viral mutations. If Zero’s blood only has, say Kurans and Toumas in it, his “cure” will only cure people who have Kuran and Touma blood in them–it won’t cure people with Shirabuki or Hiou or Shoutou blood in them. This would require Zero to have to drink from all the bloodlines, and then (probably) either sacrificed or just a blood bag for the cure. 

So as far as I can tell, there are a couple routes to the cure which either lead to a full on sacrifice on the part of the person who’s the solution or to just a significant blood donation.

Phew that was long. I hope that was somewhat helpful, and that I didn’t confuse you even more. =) If not, I’m sorry! To be fair, there really isn’t too much to go on for how the cure would work; these are mostly just my speculations at this point based on Hino drawing Kaien into the fold for the cure solution. ;)

Feel free to drop by any time!

[getoffthesoapbox]

(Science anon ^_^) Omg I love your thoughts on the science in VK! I actually had the same thoughts about a “Vampire” genetic sequence in human DNA created from a mutation (environmental or otherwise). However, Hino does have some inconsistencies, but... Well, I am in science, so I guess I'm just nitpicking '^__^ (I'm not sure if you'll wish to further discuss them though). A part of me knows that it's a work of fiction and that there's even "magic" thrown in sometimes, but still :/

Fufu, great minds think alike! ;) But yeah I don’t see how it could be much else  other than some kind of environmental or viral mutation given what Hino’s provided. And Hino’s inconsistencies are all over the place–I don’t think she herself has a good grip on her own lore. =P~~~ The “magic” aspect of things kind of ruins the science, but I guess that’s because Hino wants to have a retreat when things don’t make sense. “Magic happened!” (This is how I feel about Aidou’s father’s death–he just “magically” survived being murdered because Reasons!)

If you want to talk more about the nitpicks you have, I’d be glad to talk on with you though! Like I said before, this is such a great topic, and one I don’t get to explore very often. ;) And you’re in science? That must make it even harder for you to deal with all the logical inconsistencies, fufu. I just have to deal with the narrative ones. ;D 

[getoffthesoapbox]

(VK Science anon) Hey, I'm sending an ask because I just have a quick question. Why are the Kurans seen as more powerful Purebloods compared to others? Is it simply because they are more involved in politics? Also, not exactly related, but am I the only one that's bothered that Kaname is not only a Pureblood, but the Kuran ancestor, seems to know everything before everyone else, and a lot of things tend to go his way? Not really judging him, but Hino's character choices :/

The short answer is: ‘cause Kaname needs to be Specialz for Reasonz. =D

The long answer is: As far as I can tell (and of course this is just speculation on my part) Kaname himself was not “more” powerful than the other progenitors. His connection to the weapons and the Hooded Woman and the hunters, and his stance against the more seedy elements of the Purebloods placed him personally in a position of authority (as we see from the end of his memory segment in Night 64). Once he was in this position of authority, I believe he was the one who established the rules of vampiric society before he went to sleep (so the council of Nobles and the rules, etc.).

My theory for why the Kurans themselves were more important/powerful actually lies in an old theory I used to have about the weapons–that only people with the Hooded Woman’s blood in them could wield them. Kaname having drunk from her, would be able to pass the weapon-wielding ability down to his children. This would necessitate two things: keeping the Kuran genes “within the family” (hence the incest tradition) in order to not allow other vampires to get the weapon-wielding ability (which would defeat the purpose of them) and would make the Kuran family (as the only Purebloods who can wield the weapons) the most powerful family by default. Of course, the weapons hurt Kaname but not Juri and Yuuki, so perhaps only female vampires can wield them for some reason, but who knows.

But as for the Kurans being the most powerful Pureblood family, this appears to be more of a social/societal designation than a legitimate power one. They don’t really seem to be any more powerful than any other Pureblood family other than Kaname himself (who has more abilities even than Rido and Haruka and Juri). We never see the height of Haruka and Juri’s power–Haruka’s decimated by Rido pretty easily, and Rido’s not exactly a hard fight himself. Most of the other Purebloods we see are either injured when facing a fellow Pureblood (Shizuka), suicidal (Ouri), incredibly young and likely less powerful due to youth (Sara, Touma), or passed out and killed upon awakening (Hiou, Hanadagi), or pacifistic (Isaya). So we never really get to see the “range” of all the other Purebloods against Kaname–likely they’re all about equal in strength with regular Kurans such as HaruJuri and Yuuki. Kaname’s special probably just because he’s the last remaining progenitor rather than because of any special traits on the whole. (Likely the longer they live, the more they know, the more they figure out about their abilities and potential etc.) The incest of the Kurans may also be a contributing factor to their power being amplified, if indeed it is (which I don’t really see any evidence for given we never got to see any legitimate Pureblood vs. Pureblood battle where Kaname didn’t cheat and use Zero). 

Ultimately, Kaname is probably just smarter than the average Pureblood, and that’s why he appears more powerful. *shrug* And no, you’re definitely not the only one bothered by how easily things work out for Kaname and how many cards are stacked in his favor. This is why I frequently accuse him of being a karma houdini. =P

Those are just my thoughts personally, though I’m sure Hino would prefer us all to think that Kaname is the Most Specialz Everz. =P 

[getoffthesoapbox]

Well, I’m only a Bio major and I’m concentrated in Microbiology, so I won’t say that I’ll be 100% correct ‘^_^ But since Hino decided to add science in her story instead of staying with “magic” that doesn’t need to be explained and even have a character pursue science, I’m going to nitpick :P First things first, in terms of classification, she (or translators?) keeps using “species” when discussing vampires and humans.

If “species” was appropriate to use, then Sayori wouldn’t have had any grandkids because her children would’ve been infertile. Furthermore, Aidou’s research wouldn’t make any sense because you cannot switch between species (-.-) Why not genetically alter my DNA and give me a pair of wings then? I mentioned “subspecies” earlier because that’s the correct term between the two races for them to have fertile children.

Oh-hoh, being a Bio major makes you quite qualified to nitpick Hino’s “science,” methinks! ;) 

Looking through the official translations of the volumes, so far I don’t see Hino mention species at all (admittedly I don’t have the fanbook on me, and I didn’t look through arc 1′s chapters, just arc 2′s). If it is in any of the volumes or the fanbook, it’s probably either a mistake on Hino’s part or Hino/the translators/the fans just don’t know their science very well. (I confess I myself had forgotten the difference between species and sub-species, so your reminder was quite useful! =D) As far as I can tell, though, the series itself just calls vampires by their vampire/pureblood titles or “our kind.” Maybe Aristotle didn’t inspire classification systems in VK’s universe. =P

Traditionally vampires in other lore I believe fall more along the lines of a separate species–once they’re turned, they can’t produce children. But Hino’s of course can, even Level Ds like Zero. Ultimately I think you’re right; what we have on our hands (whether Hino knows it or not fufu) is a sub-species of human which still can procreate with humans. This is a great nitpick, fufu. ;)

[getoffthesoapbox]

(VK Science anon) Ok, first of all... Did you create a tag for this? XD Lol anyway, when I mentioned Rido, I assumed he wanted to turn Yuuki back into a pureblood because he only mentions the vial after Kaname turns Yuuki and I don't think he would want her blood if she was human because... apparently it wouldn't be as "tasty" and wouldn't give him more strength as a pureblood? I don't know, but that's what I got from it :/ With Sara, I was actually referring to her blood tablets...

(Science anon) And I thought she forced Takuma to drink her blood to have better control over him? But I don’t know Sara and her arc just confuse me :P Back to the Hooded Woman, I thought her heart only heated the furnace; although, I don’t know much about creating weapons XD

Fufu, indeed, I gave you your own tag! ;D Well, I think that’s what we were meant to assume back in the original series too, but that renders the whole turning thing inconsistent, because if blood alone was good enough to turn someone, Ichiru should be a vampire. (Methinks Hino didn’t think it through.) But I think we can probably argue that what would have happened is perhaps the blood would have “awakened” her vampire instincts and memories, but given her no actual fangs to be an outlet for her bloodlust. Still, Hino might just be inconsistent on what exactly it takes to “turn” a person–is it drinking blood or feeding blood, who knows. Plus the whole Pureblood sacrifice thing might have its own set of rules we never got to know, because no one cared to explain!

Oh, yeah the blood tablets are a whole different ballpark. I think they just let Sara mind control people if they take enough of them (but again, this makes things really inconsistent because she shouldn’t actually be anyone’s master if she doesn’t directly bite them). But whatever. Hino. *throws up hands*

The Hooded Woman does throw her heart in the furnace, but the hunters themselves don’t forge the weapons like you’d expect. The forge “magically forms” weapons from the Hooded Woman’s heart (Kaname’s forge does the same thing in Night 93), so yet another thing we have to chalk up to “magicz!” =P

Honestly I think the story suffers from Hino being a lazy writer who doesn’t think things through all the way. Her focus is “whatever will make the UST/romance more tragicz and emotionalz,” even if that requires inconsistencies in the lore. ;P

[getoffthesoapbox]

(VK Science anon) Haha of course, it’s no problem at all! I will admit that this discussion is certainly keeping me on my toes. Now I know that I need to reread Kaname’s past and that I don’t understand how a catastrophe could cause people to find each other unless it caused people to migrate to a certain area. However, neither one affect my theory! :) 1/?

(VK Science anon) The environment from 10,000 years ago would be different from the present and we can this in how temperature, sea level, precipitation, and even land changes. Now I’m noticing that some of the issues with understanding this theory are some misconceptions about mutations, so sorry, I am going to spam you this time, but I just want to clear some things up :) Again, mutations are random, spontaneous, so it’s hard to pinpoint a particular reason why one would even occur. 2/?

Just like everything else, DNA replication and repair is not 100% perfect. Sometimes there can be an issue during DNA replication like a nucleotide base is deleted, inserted, or paired incorrectly, which would affect the codon and the gene. As ironic as it sounds, there can even be an error during DNA repair. This would affect development and the genes that are expressed. There also isn’t an age range for genetic alteration. 3/?

Going back to my theory, the environment would only be a factor. It could affect anything from climate to people’s diet. In terms of people’s diets, we know that a pregnant woman’s choices can affect the development of a baby. In terms of mutations when someone is already born/alive, radiation and chemicals can act as mutagens, so location and even job can affect this. Earlier you mentioned a virus, which could also affect someone when they’re already alive. 4/?

In terms of cancer, it could affect gene regulation by keeping a gene “on” and increasing cell proliferation, which is bad. However, because mutations are random, none of these things have to be a factor, but because Hino only had humans birth Purebloods at one time in history, it led me to suspect that the environment somehow played a role during development (Not mutations after being born). So to clear some other things up, a mutation can either be positive or negative. 5/?

A mutation can be beneficial and it is actually mutations that can increase an organism’s fitness, which will lead to natural selection and evolution (yay!). An issue with gene(s) or even the chromosomes can still be referred to as a “genetic disorder” aka a disease (negative). Examples would be Sickle cell and Down syndrome. The question is whether or not you would want to look at naturally-born vampires as having a genetic disorder… 6/? (I think? This is a lot OTL)

Wow, I sent so much that tumblr briefly blocked me (=__=) Obviously, you don’t have to answer all of this at once. But back to my point: If you were to look at naturally-born vampires as having a genetic disorder, I think that would affect if you would classify them as a subspecies of humans (They would still be the same species regardless). However, I think you would have to weigh the pros and cons of their abilities to determine whether or not they can live healthy lives. 7/?

That would include considering the fact that they can’t get ill, they heal quickly, etc.; but then they are nocturnal, need blood, and live long lives, which based on VK and other stories I’ve read, is a bad thing. And then you would have to look at if the definition of a “healthy life” can be different from the norm of a human life. As far as evolution, I’ll leave that to the ecologists :P 8/?

I love that you broke tumblr’s ask quota. =P~~~~ But no, keep ‘em coming, I’m loving this conversation, and don’t worry about spamming my inbox–you’re my only anon for the most part these days, so it would be quite a tumbleweed-infested area without your contributions! ;D

Thanks for clearing up the whole mutations business for me–that’s really helpful, especially since the last time I took a science class was so long ago we’ve probably had a million revolutions since then. ;D I fully admit my ignorance on the subject! 

Okay, so first, the origin of the mutation itself: If I’m understanding you right (and correct me if I’m getting any of this wrong), it ultimately doesn’t matter what “caused” the mutation–whether that be before or after the climate catastrophe mentioned during the Ancestor memory section–because a mutation could be caused by any variety of environmental factors that existed before the catastrophe or after it. And you think the progenitors could have been any age when the mutation hit them? That does make it seem more like a disease like cancer, where it just happens randomly and the body replicates it. And I think you’re right about the progenitors just migrating–that’s the way it appears to be in the origin chapters; the Hooded Woman is wandering around “gathering” all of those of her kind. It does make me wonder if a significant portion of regular humanity was wiped out during that climate catastrophe though, and perhaps that’s why it was easier for the purebloods to find each other during that time. 

Anyway, so the progenitor purebloods still seem to be fairly rare in 10K years ago history; is it normal for spontaneous mutations to only affect a small fraction of people in the same way over large populations? Though that is true of cancer, so perhaps that’s true of the pureblood mutation as well, if it’s “built into” the DNA and just needs the right sequence triggered. But wouldn’t we see some variation in the mutations too? Purebloods all seem to be fairly consistent–they all have immortality, they all are invincible, they all can “turn” humans vampire, they all can create these familiar things from their own blood, they all can (I assume?) regress their cells to any point in their evolutionary development, they all can control their servants. It’s a pretty consistent mutation without much variation, other than perhaps the individual “magikal powahs” each pureblood gets. Thoughts? 

Your musings on beneficial mutations made me think of something else too which I wanted to run by you: so okay let’s assume from an evolutionary perspective, the purebloods are a “response” to something in the environment, a protective response to preserve the species. The good things they get: immortality, attractiveness, power, impervious to disease. The only drawback is that they can “change” other humans into vampires and then control them. But evolution isn’t moral and doesn’t care about free will, so from a species preservation perspective this makes perfect sense–purebloods are an evolutionary answer to some kind of human devastation. They can “save” a human by turning them into a vampire. This human will then have vampire babies, who will also be impervious to whatever devastating factors were causing the necessity for the rise of the purebloods. So in that sense, the purebloods would be arguably beneficial from an evolutionary perspective, as they could protect and ensure the survival of the species by just changing all the remaining humans into vampires.

The problem, of course, is that clearly the environmental conditions reverted or altered to a state where purebloods were no longer necessary in order to keep the species moving forward. So now basically they’re almost an anachronism that can’t be destroyed because, well, their very evolution rendered them immortal and impervious to any damage (they’re too well-built, but not sustaining because of the harmful mental effects of immortality). So I would argue in the current day, their evolutionary advantages are working against them now, but only in a psychological sense, which leads to them killing themselves and/or not procreating (their birthrates are really low according to Kaname in the early Kuran Manor arc chapters, and we know they’re down to a mere 33 purebloods before the story even started, which is even lower with all the murdering Kaname did–33 purebloods isn’t remotely enough to ensure replacement rates, plus with all their darned inbreeding they’re not exactly going to be genetically diverse enough to ensure continued species existence). We know purebloods go bonkers the longer they live and have trouble coping with what to do with themselves for all eternity, but that may not have been the case had all of humanity been turned into vampires. There’s a term for that…the Gini Coefficient I think? Basically, the vampires are “comparing” themselves to their shorter-lived counterparts–humans–and are becoming unhappy precisely because of the comparison. If everyone was a vampire, likely most people would be happier, and the evolutionary advantage would be more apparent I think, especially since vampires can feed off each other and don’t actually “need” human blood? (The other potential problem is that purebloods clearly still have a regular human brain, which may not be properly equipped to deal with their uniquely immortal circumstances.)

Okay, sorry, went on a tangent there. Not sure where I’m going with all that rambling, but I would say what we have on our hands is a subspecies of human created to protect the survival of the species during a period of instability that no longer exists. But because this strain of human is so impervious to disease and death, it’s still around despite no longer being “necessary,” and thus it’s a nuisance to the original human strain, which doesn’t want to “evolve” into the new species (thanks mind control and blood sucking–both gross things!). Basically we’ve got free will clashing with evolutionary necessity I think. I still have a tough time grappling with the evolutionary necessity for “servant vampires,” but maybe that has to do with ensuring those members survive, because the will of the master vampire will protect them or something. (Which of course, master vampires misuse and abuse because, hey, that’s what humans do!) 

I’ll answer your last ask separately, since it’s kind of moving us into a new topic. ;D 

[getoffthesoapbox]

(VK Science anon) Omg I can’t believe you made me a tag XD Ah, but I’m really getting off track of science here. There’s so much to discuss, so I’ll send everything in pieces, so I don’t spam you :) Now that I’m deeper in my major, I don’t know if the average person knows more than “the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell” LOL, so warning: There’s some scientific terms, so let me know if you don’t understand some or if I didn’t explain anything properly.

So back to our first discussion, the rise of Purebloods didn’t necessarily have to be due to a virus. While a virus is a good theory, I question what happened to this virus because we know viruses are resilient :P Mutations are random, so there could’ve just been an issue during human development. I think environmental factors are a better reason because why else would we only see one occurrence of the birth of Purebloods from humans?

In science we like to see trials (if it happens once, it should happen again), but nothing can be replicated if the previous conditions are gone. This theory assumes that the environmental conditions from 10,000 years ago are different from the conditions in VK.

Welcome back, my friend! =D And yes, I thought a tag might be convenient for anyone who wanted to look back through the whole conversation if they stumble upon it at a later date, fufu. ;) (I’m so glad you identify yourself, otherwise this would be harder!)

LOL to be honest, I don’t remember much biology myself, so I wouldn’t be surprised if your average reader didn’t remember much either. ;) It’s great that you’re willing to share your perspective on things, and help us understand the concepts Hino should have laid out better for us. ;D

Anyway, to your points: There’s certainly a fair argument to be made for the mutation merely being environmentally-driven (that does seem to be what Hino was trying to allude to in Kaname’s past chapters, although she messes up the vocabulary and adds some contradictions here and there). The only problem I have–and perhaps you can clear up how this would work better for me–is that from the official translation, it appears that the purebloods were in “existence” before whatever environmental catastrophe appeared to destroy their previous existence. It’s just that they were scattered and the catastrophe allowed them to find each other.

What I was thinking might be the solution to make this weird fact consistent with your environmental mutation hypothesis is that perhaps when the environmental catastrophe hit, the people who would become future purebloods were still in their mothers’ wombs or at the very least still very young to where they were susceptible to genetic alteration or mutation. This might explain why they were scattered, but also “alive” before the catastrophe.

It’s annoying that Hino was lazy and didn’t explain what, exactly, the catastrophe was, but I have to assume that the mutation only affected a certain “population” of people, since purebloods are incredibly rare–to the point where they had to search for each other. This also brings up other questions–why this mutation even occur in the first place? Why did it only affect some people and not others? When did the mutation stop? What conditions were required to pressure it into existence? 

The other question would be (and this might be more easily answered)–if we are indeed working with a cellular or DNA-level mutation, would a mere “drug” be able to cure it permanently? Or would something more invasive or heavy-hitting be required, like a radiation therapy or something? Would it be more realistic to say the drug just puts the vampiric mutation into remission, like cancer? How realistic is Aidou’s drug as it stands? (Obviously we have to “accept” it for the story’s purposes, since that’s what’s stated by the characters, but I still wonder how ultimately realistic it is as an element.)

Ultimately though, we do know for sure that the environmental changes had some effect on the rise of the purebloods. Since they only seemed to “arise” during that period, and all future purebloods are just the offspring of the progenitors, I’d assume your mutation theory to be correct. This brings up some other questions (and I’m not sure we can answer them given how little Hino gave us) are why it only affected a select few humans, the age ranges of those humans, and how long the “mutation window” was for forming this new subspecies.