#violently repulsed by the thought of having children and pregnancy in general. So much so that I got permanently sterilized. HOWEVER. MARCO.

[standfucker]

Marco with a nesting instinct. You get pregnant and he's just compulsively buying more and more pillows and blankets. An absurd amount and he can't stop hoarding them. Keeps gifting you stuffed animals. Bringing you food in bed. And he's not even really aware he's doing it until you wake up one day and realize your bed has turned into a literal nest.

[serenagaywaterford]

16) another thing that connected them in S2. Motherhood. Which is weird. Bc Serena is delusional about Nicole being hers. k) "how nobody really paid proper attention when it was building."And I mean, isn't this INCREDIBLY realistic and terrifying? Being inactive, indifferent about others and especially apolitical and undermining the threat...History is like a circle, always repeating itself in the end. I may be critical of the series, but its political observations are always on point. Like

17) that episode where June is separated from Hannah (at the same time the US-Mexico border crossing takes place). l) "Nobody deserves what those women get but it’s important to think critically about these characters and if June recognises she was idle until it was too late, I think as viewers we should be able to say the same" June makes it VERY clear that she feels guilty about i. her last interactions with her mother, ii. her inactivity. That's not victim blaming. It goes WITHOUT saying that

18) that NO woman deserves Gilead. Period. m) "Although I am also someone who counts restorative justice as a viable option for some crimes. I don’t think punitive/retributive justice is always the answer." As if I didn't have enough reasons to like you. I'm with you and I hear you. However, I do understand that some methods are not very feasible IRL due to various limitations. Back to Serena. What do you think will happen to her on the show? Will she survive Gilead's destruction? Will she stand

19) a democratic trial for her crimes? Will she get killed before Gilead goes down? Will she get lynched by an angry mob? I think I'd like it if the series dived more into the dark subjects of mob mentality and eye-for-an-eye types of punishment, but with flipped roles. Sth along the lines of "Can some victims (and their families) become as cruel as the Gilead!criminals in their quest for revenge?" There are the particicutions and Emily's arc, but still. n) "Maybe you have a theory? It’s one of

20) those things I don’t get. Is it cos she’s jealous June has a child and she doesn’t? Is it just a power play thing?" I think it's a combination of both actually. In S1, it's clearly the latter. Serena's being cruel and manipulative: she lets Hannah briefly see her child in order to emotionally torture her. But in S2? It's mostly the former. Obviously, Serena is envious of June's pregnancy, why wouldn't she be of Hannah? Especially given that Hannah (unlike Nicole) comes from a happier place

21) time in June's life. (Aka "God has blessed this /immoral-sinful/ woman with 2 children, why not me?" That must stink.) Another reason that she denies her that time is bc she feels betrayed that her prisoner tries to manipulate her, instead of befriend her. *eye roll* Duh, Serena. (Aka "After everything I've done for her and this is how she repays me." Bitch. You've done NOTHING. Try again.) Her desire to connect with sb, bc she doesn't have anything/anyone left anymore, makes her

22) desperate and a little naive/dumb, lol.

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I am so onboard with k) to m)! I can’t really add anything more of value (or interest) lol cos to me it just seems so obvious. I don’t know why some people miss it. Although I think EVERYBODY was sort of knocked sideways by how relevant the Hannah/June thing was with current US events. Hit a little too close to home. And GOOD.

You’re very right. Restorative justice is limited by a lot of things, but in theory, I do find it a positive angle to approach some kinds of crime. It’s a small scale sort of thing, generally, and very time and effort intensive process.

As for Serena’s fate... OHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhh. Sometimes I don’t like to think that far down the line cos I honestly do not see her getting anything even remotely happy. How she ultimately is dealt with, I don’t know. It really depends on the points the show wants to make. Will it be hopeful, will it be retributive, will it be melodramatic, will it be depressing af? Do they care about how angry viewers will be? Do they have enough for Serena to DO to make it to the final seasons or will her usefulness as a character expire early? (I’d wager they’d want to keep Yvonne around as long as possible but I’m biased.)

Personally, I suspect she’ll be held accountable in a democratic legal system. Although the thing that makes me pause is how Tuello suggested she defect. He very much presented an idyllic future. Now, it could have been a lie to trick her into turning herself over to the (remaining) US for punishment. But, on the other hand, they seem to REALLY want her propaganda. I don’t totally doubt that they see Serena as more valuable as a source of intel/propaganda than to hold her accountable. At this stage, arresting and sentencing her for her crimes wouldn’t really accomplish much for the US yet in the grande scheme of things. IMO, anyway. She seems a better asset for them than a convict or POW locked away/dead somewhere. 

>> “Will she get lynched by an angry mob? I think I'd like it if the series dived more into the dark subjects of mob mentality and eye-for-an-eye types of punishment, but with flipped roles. Sth along the lines of "Can some victims (and their families) become as cruel as the Gilead!criminals in their quest for revenge?" There are the particicutions and Emily's arc, but still."

I fucking LOVE this approach. It’s something I’ve rolled around with for quite a while. If you’re going to deal with mob mentality in terms of the creation and continuation of a fascist system, what about the other side of human reality? Mob mentality can easily swing the other way with the right tinder and spark. Like, we see absolutely justified anger and disgust by survivors/refugees in Canada and then comes the question of what constitutes reasonable reaction to such a repulsive regime. Is violent mob revenge the answer? (I honestly can’t make that determination. I’ve never been in anything remotely like war or fascism.) Maybe it is. Maybe it’s not. And it is the sort of thing I think THT could deal with. Like you said, it’s sort of touched upon with Emily. But put that on a large scale. Is violence sometimes the answer? Is war the only answer with totalitarian regimes? How to you truly hold war criminals responsible?

Of course there would be viewers praising a mob if they kill Serena. I’ve seen people admit as much on this hellsite. (I dunno if I can make a judgement on that either but I personally find that perspective incredibly problematic. But it begs the question: what is justice then?) I think it would be incredibly disturbing to see. Yet, I’m also someone who thought June should have shot them lol. (Not really truly. But I felt the urge to see it during that episode--when I got over the fact the box she was opening wasn’t actually crackers but shotgun shells lol. But it really doesn’t fit with June’s character. Like she considers killing Serena more than once (3 times IIRC), but never does because it’s simply not right and she’s not that sort of person.)

Personally speaking, I don’t want Serena killed. Other characters, I hope die in painful ways. *coughfredcough* *coughallthemeninpowercough* But having her killed by a mob would be quite impactful. And not, imo, all that unrealistic. I just don’t want it. I don’t need absolutely everything to be brutally honest and realistic. Gimme some of that feelgood hope lmao.

>> Another reason that she denies her that time is bc she feels betrayed that her prisoner tries to manipulate her, instead of befriend her. *eye roll* Duh, Serena. (Aka "After everything I've done for her and this is how she repays me." Bitch. You've done NOTHING. Try again.) Her desire to connect with sb, bc she doesn't have anything/anyone left anymore, makes her 22) desperate and a little naive/dumb, lol.

WORD, LMAO. TO EVERY SINGLE WORD re: Serena/Hannah/etc. (ITA agree and thank you for your perspective on the Hannah thing!) 

Like she’s so delusional/in such denial. Serena, girl, you’ve done literally nothing of actual substance for her and often times went out of your way to make things 100x more miserable for her and then wonder why she won’t be your BFF? Just cos you think your jail warden is your friend (Fred), doesn’t mean it’s actually true and transferable.

(I love it? (Not in the way that I think it’s good, morally. Just story/character-wise. It’s so interesting to me how weird and sad she is sometimes.))

In a way I actually feel sorry for Serena, even if she did get herself into this disaster, and she’s perpetuated it in the worse possible way she could. (She’s so unbelievably cruel, esp in S1, and then throws a tantrum when June doesn’t just fall into her arms, so to speak. C’mon, lady.) I think that's what I love about her character. She’s so wrong on so many levels, but she still evokes quite strong feelings the other way as well. Like, her growing desperation and loneliness and need for connection as Gilead goes on is actually... sad? I know many, many fans who bristle and word-vomit at just the suggestion of any such feelings towards her.

I dunno. I’m an idiot and a sucker cos I think when she actually connects with June (and loses the insecurity/jealousy), there’s a whole other person. It’s really fascinating how she changes. And switches back and forth. (Yeah, yeah, I’ve read the criticisms that that’s typical abuser behaviour but... ah. Like I said, me=sucker. I won’t deny I totally understand it but. Gah. I think it’s more complex. Am I woobifying? Yikes. I hope not.)