#violence vs sex

[starsarefire824]

Normally I keep to basic tags or empty reblogs for this fandom, but I'm gonna open my mouth for this one. Sorry if you don't want this in an ask but I felt it was more appropriate to send it here than as a comment on your post.

I didn't even know what vore was until today (how tf did I dodge that coming from the spn fandom lmao). One more thing to filter out I guess. Anyways. I assume it's implied that the anon was asking about vore as a sexual kink, otherwise they'd have used other terminology. In this fandom, yes it apparently incriminates people that age up characters. That is a no-no here since the characters are canonically under 18. There's also an assumption in this fandom that minors are not the one creating and/or consuming this content.

"I'm confused, do teenage boys not get hardons?" Apparently in this fandom, no. They don't. Or they do but you can't acknowledge it. (Also, just want you to know that when I read this I legit lol'd. The problem at that age is usu preventing boners. Getting one is easy.)

For some reason, this fandom has deemed violence is more morally/ethically appropriate than even a hint of sexuality. They view that sexualizing characters under 18 in any way, including even kissing (idk if you were here for that), is unacceptable. That being said, that difference in moral/ethical correctness might be marginal. There's still some backlash against violence and dark themes.

It doesn't make sense to me since the show literally has scenes with sex and sex jokes with teenage characters as well as physical and sexual violence against children. Yet. If someone points out or analyzes these things, they will be bullied sometimes to the point of leaving (idk if you were here for hosegate or when people were being called out for analyzing the rape metaphors in s1 and s2). The environment here is such that it is impossible to have a good faith discussion about these topics... And if you can't discuss it bc it's so taboo then exploring these things in writing or art, even if it's just implied, is also taboo. And these are just for the topics already in the show.

Yes like you said it's purity culture. It is funny to me that in this case, cannibalism is OK but vore isn't. And it's also funny to me that a love scene would be less acceptable than cannibalism since sex is not OK (graphic or implied) but violence is OK (graphic or implied). And if fiction tastes reflect people irl (not my belief, but has been a repeated topic of fandom discourse) then the fandom is more OK with cannibalism irl than making love. It's wild.

Sorry for writing so much and getting a bit off topic there 😅

Uhm, THANK YOU SO MUCH for dropping this in my inbox. I completely agree with all of your points.

And pretty much sums up the entire point I've been trying to make since I've been in this fandom. I will never, ever, understand, the very American pov I might add, that approves of violence, lets their children watch violent films and play M rated violent video games, but then won't let those same kids go see the PG 13 or R rated movie because tHe ChAraCteRs HaVe sEx for fifteen seconds. And if it's a movie about a person experiencing sexual violence? Forget about it. That's the only kind of violence they won't let their kids see.

I've seen it time and time again with people in my life, my parents themselves to an extent, and definitely extended family were like that when I was younger.

[isawthismeme]

[gmos]

i feel like gun literacy should be a solution people push for more often instead of the whole conversation being gun control vs no gun control

[pulsarex]

The only reason why I like staring at the pessimistic void is because if I focus too much on the bright hope of this world, my eyes strain too much and they begin to hurt. There's a reason why they tell you not to look directly at the sun for too long. Meanwhile, the darkness helps me sleep better. It's also sexy.

you may notice i use the phrase "my beloved" frequently. this is because i am in love with the world and everything in it. hope this clears things up <3

[mrsparkjimin18]

Part 2: Embers of Midnight

Early in the morning, you sit across the table from Hoseok, your fingers curling loosely around your coffee mug. Over the last few weeks, this ritual has become almost second nature. The steam rises in lazy spirals, a fleeting illusion of normalcy, but you know better.

This day is anything but normal.

Hoseok studies you from across the table, his dark eyes steady and searching. You feel the weight of his gaze, as if he’s probing for any hint of doubt, though you’re determined not to give him any this time.

“You’re sure?” he asks, his voice quieter and deeper than usual, as though speaking too loudly might shatter the fragile peace surrounding you. “Once we start, there’s no going back.”

You meet his gaze without flinching. “I’m sure.” Your voice is firmer than you expected, but it feels right. After everything – him, you, the angel – it’s the only certainty you have left.

A flicker of something crosses his face, a brief softening of the lines around his mouth. It’s not quite a smile but close enough, an expression that makes him look startlingly human. He tips his head back, finishing his coffee in a single swallow before setting the mug down with a decisive clink.

“Then let’s go.”

The library looks nothing like you remember.

As a child, it was a wonderland of towering shelves, sunlit corners, and the comforting smell of old books. But now, it’s as if time itself has turned against the place. The bricks crumble like brittle parchment, vines snake through shattered windows, and the faded sign above the door hangs crookedly, its painted letters barely legible.

The air feels unnaturally still, swallowing every sound. You hesitate, glancing at Hoseok standing beside you.

“This…I know this place,” you murmur, more to yourself than to him.

His gaze flickers toward you, unreadable. “It’s where you’re starting.”

“Starting?” 

Hoseok doesn’t reply, pushing the door open instead. It groans in protest, and you brace yourself for the sight of a ruined interior – rubble, dust, collapsed ceilings – but what greets you instead is something alive.

The walls ripple faintly, as though they’re breathing, the rhythm syncing with something deep in your chest. Shelves stretch into impossible spirals and arches, glowing softly with a golden light. Some hover in midair, defying gravity, while others twist upward into a darkness that shouldn’t exist. The air smells like parchment, leather, and something faintly metallic.

“It’s alive,” you whisper, almost afraid to disturb the surreal stillness.

“It’s the other side,” Hoseok answers, stepping forward with the ease of someone who belongs here. “You’ll get used to it.”

“You call this ‘starting simple’?” You try for sarcasm, but your awe betrays you.

Hoseok finally turns to face you, his expression serious. “Compared to what comes next? It is.”

You move closer to him, avoiding the edge of a floating staircase that definitely wasn’t there seconds ago. “Why can I see this? Be here? I’ve never-”

“You’re with me.” Hoseok says it like it’s the most obvious thing in the world. “I’m your guide on this journey to find the relic.”

“But I’ve never-”

“You’re not ordinary anymore.” The weight of his words settles over you. “Whatever you were before, you’re not just that now. The more time you spend with me, the thinner the veil gets. You’re seeing what’s been here all along.”

You stare at him, trying to process the impossible. “This…has always been here?”

“Yes. To humans, it’s just a ruin. A forgotten building.” Hoseok gestures toward the golden light that streams down like sunlight. “To us, it’s a place of knowledge and power.”

You glance around again, taking it all in, and the beauty of it terrifies you.

“And my parents…they used to bring me here.”

Hoseok doesn’t say anything, but his silence feels heavy, suggesting he knows more than he’s letting on.

You follow him through a labyrinth of spiraling shelves, the golden light dimming with every step. What was once wondrous now feels ominous, as though the air itself has shifted – waiting for something.

“What are we looking for?” you ask, your voice hushed.

“A book.” Hoseok’s answer is clipped, his focus razor-sharp.

“A book?” You glance at the endless shelves. “In here? That’s like finding a needle in—”

“It’s not endless,” he interrupts, his tone calm but firm. “It’s…selective.”

That doesn’t make you feel any better.

He stops in front of an unremarkable shelf – dusty, untouched, and bathed in shadow. As you step closer, you realize the shelf doesn’t quite belong here. It’s carved from a darker wood, and the titles on the spines seem to shift the longer you stare at them.

“There,” he says softly, pointing to a crimson book nestled in the shadows. Its gold lettering writhes like it’s alive.

Instinctively, you reach for it, but Hoseok catches your wrist. His touch is firm but gentle.

“It’s not that simple,” he warns.

You glance at him, frowning. “What do you mean?”

Hoseok looks at the shelf like it can hear you, sense you, even reach out and grab you. “This part of the library doesn’t just hand over what you’re looking for. It demands something in return.”

“Like what?”

He shrugs one shoulder, unnervingly casual. “Proof.”

“Proof of what?”

“That you’re worthy of it.”

Before you can protest, the air changes. It feels thicker, pressing against your skin like unseen hands. The shadows around the shelf darken, and the book begins to glow faintly, almost beckoning you. Your heart begins to hammer in your chest.

“Don’t overthink it,” Hoseok says softly. “Just…walk forward.”

Your heart hammers in your chest as you take a step closer. “And if I’m not?”

He hesitates. “It’ll know.”

“That’s not ominous at all,” you mutter, but you take a deep breath and step forward anyway.

The shadows shift as you approach, pooling at your feet like liquid ink. The shelf seems to stretch taller, the book retreating farther out of reach.

You hear whispers – soft, insidious, like a thousand voices speaking at once. They know you. They know your fears, your doubts, the memories you try to bury.

You’re not strong enough.

You’ll fail.

Why do you think he chose you?

Your steps falter and the voices coil around you like smoke, tugging at every insecurity you’ve ever had. Behind you, Hoseok is silent, watching, waiting. You want to turn back, but something stops you.

If you stop now, you’ll never know.

You take another step.

The whispers grow louder, sharper, until one voice cuts through the chaos.

“Why do you keep going?”

You stop, chest heaving, fists clenched at your sides. “Because I have to.”

“Why?”

You swallow hard. “Because…I’m tired of feeling lost.”

The words hang in the air, raw and honest. The shadows pause, almost as if considering your answer.

The darkness begins to recede, pulling away like a tide. The shelf shrinks back to its normal size, and the crimson book falls from its place, landing softly at your feet. The whispers fade, leaving only silence.

You crouch and pick up the book, the leather cover warm under your fingers. The gold lettering solidifies into a title you can’t quite read, but it feels important – like it’s been waiting for you.

You turn back to Hoseok, holding the book up triumphantly. “That wasn’t so bad.”

His lips curl into a victorious smile, but when he reaches out to take the book, it doesn’t budge.

Hoseok frowns and tries again, still, the book doesn’t move.

“What the hell?” He glances at you, his expression unreadable. “It’s bound to you.”

“Bound to me?”

“It chose you,” he says quietly. “And only you.”

The depth of his words bites into you like teeth, and for a moment, neither of you speaks. You clutch the book tighter, suddenly aware that whatever just happened, it wasn’t normal – even for this place.

“What does that mean?” you ask finally.

Hoseok’s gaze lingers on you, dark and knowing. “It means you’re more important than you realize.”

The warmth of your fireplace wraps around you, the cryptic book resting heavily on the table before you, and it calls to you without making a sound. The room is quiet, save for the occasional crackle of the flames, and the contrast to the eerie chill of the library you’ve just left is almost jarring. Your fingers hover over the book’s cover, taking in the intricate swirls of gold and silver symbols that seem to pulse faintly in the dim light. It doesn’t feel like any book you’ve ever touched. It feels alive. Watching.

“You’re staring at it like it’s about to bite,” Hoseok says, his voice pulling your attention. He’s lounging in the chair across from you, his casual posture doing little to mask the sharpness in his eyes as he watches you.

“Maybe it will,” you mutter, glancing at him. “You’re the one who said this thing could only be taken by me. What if it’s cursed?”

His lips quirk into a half-smile. “If it were cursed, you’d already know. Besides, the library wouldn’t have let it leave unless it wanted to be with you.”

The words don’t comfort you as much as he might think. You swallow, steel yourself, and place your palm against the cover. It’s warmer than when you first held it at the library, the surface almost yielding beneath your touch. The book shudders faintly, and the symbols light up, rearranging themselves in a fluid dance of gold and silver. Slowly the cover creaks open, revealing pages that shift and shimmer like silk caught in a breeze, tantalizing your curiosity.

Hoseok leans forward, curiosity etched into his features. “What does it say?”

Your eyes scan the shifting ink on the pages, a mix of apprehension and awe tightening in your chest. At first, the symbols twist and turn, unrecognizable, and you wonder if you’ve made a mistake in opening the book. But as you focus, the chaotic shapes begin to settle, forming words that spark an eerie familiarity deep within you. 

A chill creeps down your spine, but determination takes root, outweighing the fear. This is your path now, for better or worse. But as you focus, they settle into words – words you somehow understand. You read aloud, your voice steady despite the odd familiarity of the text. “‘The path forward lies in the ruins of light. Where the heavens fell, shadows bloom. Seek the mark of the forsaken…there lies the second key.’”

You glance up at Hoseok, a frown tugging at your lips. “What does that mean?”

He tilts his head, his expression thoughtful. “Ruins of light…it’s probably referring to the celestial ruins. An old battlefield where angels fell during the war.”

The mention of a battlefield sends a chill down your spine. “Why would the next key be in a place like that?”

“Because the relic doesn’t desire convenience or comfort,” he says simply, his tone grave. “It thrives in chaos. It was created to bridge light and darkness. The places it left its marks… they’re not places of peace.”

You close the book, your hand lingering on the cover. Its warmth now feels strangely reassuring, as if it’s recognizing you in some way. “So, we’re going to a battlefield next?”

He nods, standing from his chair with fluid grace. “You’ll need to be ready. The library was only the beginning. What lies ahead will demand more of you.”

You raise an eyebrow at him, a smirk tugging at your lips despite the tension. "You really think I’m ready for this?"

Hoseok smirks, that faint glimmer of amusement returning to his eyes. “After seeing you emerge victorious from the library…absolutely.”

The room settles into a comfortable quiet after Hoseok’s teasing remark, but your thoughts remain restless. The weight of the moment, the discovery of the book, and the realization that it all hinges on you feels heavier than ever. You sink into the chair by the table, cradling your head in your hands.

“I don’t understand,” you murmur, the words slipping out before you can stop them. “Why does it have to be me? I thought I was ready, but after the library…I almost ran away. What if I’m not as ready as I thought I was?”

Hoseok’s expression softens, his usual sharpness melting into something warmer. He steps closer, crouching so he’s at eye level with you. “Angel, look at me.” His voice is low, steady, and for a moment, the storm of doubt in your chest calms.

You lift your gaze, meeting his. “The other night, I felt ready. Something inside of me was… released. Now, I’m doubting whether I belong in this world you’ve dragged me into.”

He reaches out, gently taking your hands in his. His touch is firm yet soothing, grounding you. “You think I would’ve come to you if you weren’t meant for this? You’re stronger than you realize. And you’re not doing this alone…I’ll be with you every step of the way.”

His thumb brushes against the back of your hand, a subtle gesture that feels intimate, comforting. The tension in your shoulders eases just a fraction, but not enough. He notices, of course he does, and a faint smile touches his lips.

“Follow me,” he says softly.

The warmth of Hoseok’s hand in yours grounds you as he leads you down the hallway of your own home, each step heavy with unspoken questions. Doubt claws at the edges of your thoughts, whispering warnings about the dangers of trust and vulnerability. Yet, with every glance back he offers – a flicker of reassurance in his dark, steady gaze – you feel a fragile thread of resolve winding tighter within you. You grip his hand just a little firmer, clinging to the promise of safety his presence silently conveys. You don’t question where you’re going – the quiet intensity in his gaze as he glanced back over his shoulder left no room for doubt. But when the door to your bathroom opens, you halt mid-step.

This isn’t your bathroom.

The walls are adorned with intricate mosaic tiles that shimmer like a kaleidoscope, catching the light of dozens of candles placed artfully around the room. Pools of wax create abstract designs, as if painted by time. In the center, a sunken bath rests, steam curling from its surface. Lily pads and lotus flowers float on the water, their petals glowing faintly, dancing and swaying like artistic swimmers. The air is thick with the soothing aroma of lavender and vanilla, wrapping around you like a gentle embrace.

“Hoseok,” you start, your voice trembling with confusion. “Where…how…”

He steps closer, his hands settling gently on your shoulders. His gaze is soft, reassuring, but behind his calm exterior, there’s an intensity that sets your pulse racing.

“You’re safe,” he says simply, his fingers brushing a strand of hair from your face. “This is my realm. My home.”

The words send a shiver down your spine. Your mind reels, questions tumbling over one another, but before you can voice them, he leans closer, his forehead resting against yours. “Trust me,” he murmurs, his breath warm against your lips. “Just this once, let me take care of you.”

For a moment, you waver. Doubt whispers in your mind, reminding you of the risks, the uncertainty of surrendering to someone you barely understand. The weight of everything you’ve seen – what you’ve learned – tightens in your chest, making it hard to breathe. But then, there’s Hoseok. His eyes hold no deceit, only a quiet resolve that pulls at something deep within you.

“What if I can’t?” you whisper, the question slipping out unbidden. "What if trusting you is a mistake?"

His expression softens, and he steps closer, his hands cupping your face with such tenderness it silences the storm in your mind. "Then let it be a mistake," he says, his voice low and steady. "But it’ll be ours to make together. You’re not alone in this, Angel. You never have to be."

The sincerity in his words disarms you, and despite the hesitation lingering at the edges of your heart, you find yourself nodding. It’s not blind trust – it’s a choice to believe in something beyond fear. To believe in him.

You hesitate, the weight of his words pressing against your uncertainty, but then you nod, the depth of his gaze anchoring you.

He guides you toward the bath and begins to undress you, his movements slow and deliberate. “You just need to relax,” he murmurs, his voice a balm to your frayed nerves. “Today was difficult, so let me help you unwind.”

You don’t respond. Whether it’s the surreal transformation of the room or the calming effect of his presence, words fail you. You let him guide you, his touch careful and respectful as he peels away the tension with every article of clothing.

Once undressed, he takes your hand and helps you step into the bath. The moment your skin touches the water, a sigh escapes you. It’s unlike any sensation you’ve ever felt – warm and soothing, yet invigorating, as though the water itself recognizes you.

Hoseok begins undressing with the same unhurried precision. When his body is revealed, your breath catches. Every inch of him is proportional, powerful, and undeniably beautiful. Your body hums at the sight, a reaction he seems to sense as his lips curve into a knowing smirk.

Hoseok kneels at the edge of the tub, his hands gliding over your shoulders and down your arms, the touch both calming and electrifying. As he leans in, his lips brush the curve of your neck, soft and teasing.

“You’re so tense,” he murmurs against your skin, his voice a low rumble that sends heat pooling in your core.

He slips into the water behind you, his arms wrapping around your waist to pull you against him. The feel of his bare chest against your back steals your breath, the solid warmth of him a stark contrast to the liquid softness surrounding you.

“Let me help you let go,” he whispers, his lips grazing your ear, his words both soothing and provocative, a gentle coaxing that matches the rhythm of his hands on your skin.

The teasing brushes of his lips along your neck and shoulder make your pulse race, and yet his movements remain unhurried, deliberate. His hands slide down your sides, his thumbs tracing the curve of your hips before slipping lower, his touch both exploratory and reverent.

When his fingers find you, a gasp escapes your lips. His touch is soft at first, a gentle pressure that has you arching into him, craving more. He doesn’t rush, taking his time to learn every reaction, every shiver and sigh.

“Look at you,” he breathes, his tone laced with admiration as though the sight of you undoes him. “So beautiful, so perfect.”

The words make your chest tighten, but before doubt can creep in, his fingers press more firmly, drawing a moan from your lips.

“Don’t hold back,” he says, his voice low and rough now, a plea wrapped in a command. His breath tickles your ear as he adds, “I want all of you.”

He turns you in the water, his hands guiding your thighs to straddle him. The look in his eyes causes your heart to palpitate and skip beats – a mix of hunger and tenderness, as though he’s been starving for this moment but refuses to let it slip by without savoring every second.

When he enters you, it’s slow, calculated, and so intimate that tears prick at the corners of your eyes. The stretch is almost too much, the sensation overwhelming, but his hands grip your hips, grounding you, encouraging you.

“You can take it,” he murmurs, his voice thick with restraint. “You’re mine, Angel. You were made for this.”

The words send a shiver through you, and as he begins to move, the world shifts. It’s as though the connection between you unlocks something deep within – a portal to a part of yourself you never knew existed.

Each thrust is deliberate, measured, designed to make you feel every inch of him and every emotion he pours into you. It’s not just physical - it’s transformative - as though he’s unraveling every thread of doubt and fear you’ve ever held and weaving them into something new.

Your fingers dig into his shoulders as the pressure builds, your body arching into his as his pace quickens. His name falls from your lips like a prayer, and he responds with soft groans and whispered encouragement, his hands guiding your movements as though orchestrating a masterpiece.

When the release finally comes, it’s greater than the first time with him. The pleasure is all-consuming, but beneath it is a profound sense of liberation, you truly feel your body release the doubt and free yourself.

Hoseok holds you as you tremble in his arms, his lips pressing soft kisses to your hair and forehead. His own breaths are ragged, his body taut with the effort of holding back, but his focus remains on you, his hands soothing over your back.

He presses a lingering kiss to your temple, his voice a soft murmur against your skin. “You’re safe here, Angel. Always.”

When you step out of the bath, Hoseok wraps you in a thick, plush towel, his hands lingering on your shoulders before guiding you out of the bathroom. The cool, earthy scent of the enchanting forest beyond greets you, but it takes a moment for your senses to catch up. This isn’t your home.

A wave of wonder sweeps through you as you take in the expansive open space before you. The polished stone walls and floors glow faintly with an otherworldly warmth, and the ceiling stretches high above, giving the illusion of endless space. In the center of the room stands a magnificent double-sided fireplace, its flames dancing languidly on either side of a glass partition. The crackle of the fire blends harmoniously with the soothing sound of rushing water, and as you follow the sound, your eyes are drawn to the view beyond the floor-to-ceiling windows.

The world outside is breathtaking – a magical forest bathed in the shimmering glow of twilight. A waterfall cascades down the side of a mountain, its mist catching the soft light of an aurora borealis that stretches endlessly across the sky. The colors - vivid greens, purples, and blues - seem to pulse and shift as though alive, and you feel the pull of their beauty deep within your chest. For a moment, the sheer wonder of it all is almost too much. You reach for the grounding presence of Hoseok, your thoughts tumbling in awe and disbelief.

“Where are we?” you whisper, your voice barely audible, caught between astonishment and uncertainty.

“My home,” Hoseok replies, his voice steady and grounding, yet carrying an edge of pride. He steps behind you, his hands settling on your waist. “A realm of my own creation, outside the constraints of your world.”

The enormity of his words settles over you, and you glance at him, a thousand questions swirling in your mind. Who is he, truly, to wield such power, such beauty? Yet the calm conviction in his gaze quiets the storm within you, replacing it with awe.

His fingers trace soft circles against your hip, tethering you to the moment. “Do you trust me?” he asks, his voice soft yet firm, as though the answer holds the weight of worlds.

You nod, the depth of his question mirrored by the calm conviction in his eyes. “I do,” you say, the words carrying a resonance that surprises even you.

He guides you through the space, the warmth of the stone beneath your feet contrasting with the cool air that drifts in through the open windows. The transition from the bath to his world feels seamless, as if this moment was always meant to happen.

Finally, he leads you into his bedroom, and it feels like stepping into a dream. An enormous canopy bed, draped in layers of soft fabric, sits at the center of the room, its carved wooden posts blending seamlessly with the natural lines of the space. The walls, made of smooth stone, seem to hum with quiet energy, and the view beyond the floor-to-ceiling windows is captivating.

The magical forest stretches endlessly, the trees bathed in an ethereal glow as though kissed by moonlight. Above, the sky is a masterpiece of swirling colors, a neverending aurora borealis that casts shimmering hues across the room. In the distance, the sound of the waterfall echoes faintly, a soothing melody that seems to sync with the beat of your heart.

Hoseok steps behind you, wrapping his arms around your waist as he rests his chin on your shoulder. “It’s beautiful, isn’t it?” he murmurs, his voice like a soft caress that mingles with the serenity of the scene.

You nod, unable to tear your gaze away. “I’ve never seen anything like it.”

Hoseok lifts you effortlessly into his arms, carrying you to the bed as though you weigh nothing. The world around you seems to fade as he lays you down, the mattress cradling you in comfort. He climbs in beside you, his body warm against yours, his hands steady as they explore every curve, every inch of skin.

The intimacy begins again, slow and deliberate. Each touch, each kiss, feels like a silent promise, a confession of everything he’s yet to say aloud. As he moves within you, the connection deepens, the pleasure mingling with a profound sense of belonging.

When the moment reaches its crescendo, it’s as though the universe itself holds its breath, the stars above shining brighter, the aurora pulsing with vibrant intensity.

Afterward, Hoseok pulls you close, his arms encircling you as though he never plans to let go. The sound of the waterfall outside lulls you into a tranquil haze, his quiet words grounding you in a way nothing else ever has.

“You’re everything,” he whispers, his voice thick with emotion.

And as sleep claims you, you find yourself leaning into his presence, no longer fighting the pull.

The sun hovers low in the sky as Hoseok’s car finally arrives at the edge of the city’s old warehouse district. It is massive, stretching along the riverbank, a labyrinth of decayed buildings and rusting structures that seem to hum with an unnatural energy. The water nearby glistens unnaturally under the fading sunlight, as though it holds secrets far beyond the mundane.

Hoseok stops, scanning the surroundings with a critical eye. “This is it,” he says, his voice quieter than usual.

You hesitate. “How can you tell?”

He gestures toward the river. “The celestial realm draws its power from water, and this... this place reeks of it. Feel that hum in the air?”

You nod, suddenly hyper aware of the faint vibration beneath your feet. You swallow hard and step closer to him, the weight of the moment pressing down on your chest. Each step into the district feels heavier, as though the very air is resisting your intrusion.

Hoseok suddenly comes to a halt before the largest warehouse, its rusted doors barely hanging on their hinges. A faint glow seeps through the cracks, pulsing like a heartbeat. Hoseok pushes the doors open, and the sight inside leaves you speechless.

Inside, the warehouse floor is covered by a vast pool of shimmering water, golden light rippling across its surface. Patterns of celestial geometry reflecting on the walls, creating an ever-shifting tapestry of light and shadow.

Hoseok steps forward cautiously, his movements fluid yet tense. “This is a gateway,” he says, looking back at you. “Once we cross, there’s no telling what we’ll face.”

You nod, clutching the strap of your satchel. Together, you wade into the glowing water. The moment the liquid touches your skin, the world tilts, and the warehouse dissolves in a cascade of brilliant light.

When your vision clears, you find yourself standing in a place that defies logic. Bone-white structures jutting from the ground like the skeletons of ancient giants, their surfaces glowing faintly in the ambient light. The air is thick with the scent of ozone, and beneath your feet, the ground seems to hum with restrained power. Rivers of light flow through deep channels, crisscrossing the landscape in intricate patterns.

“It’s beautiful,” you whisper, though unease prickles at the back of your mind. The beauty of this place feels hollow, as if the light is concealing something darker.

In the distance, a golden orb floats above a jagged pedestal of stone, its light casting long, twisting shadows. A strange pull begins to gnaw at you, drawing you toward it despite the growing dread pooling in your stomach.

Hoseok reaches out, his fingers brushing your wrist. “Wait,” he says firmly. “This feels... wrong.”

But the orb’s allure is overpowering. As if in a trance, you step closer, the world narrowing to the golden glow before you. The moment your fingers brush the orb, the light explodes outward, swallowing everything in an instant.

When the light fades, you find yourself standing in a familiar place – a dark country road, rain pounding against the windshield of a car. Your heart clenches as you recognize the scene.

“This can’t be real,” you whisper.

Yet every detail is vivid, from the harsh glare of the headlights cutting through the downpour to the frantic voices of your parents in the front seat.

Suddenly, the car screeches to a halt, and brilliant lights surround you, blinding and pure. Figures emerge from the light – angels, their presence chilling you to the bone.

“Your parents defied their purpose,” one of them says, his voice devoid of warmth. “They chose weakness, and now they pay the price.”

You freeze, the words pierce through you like a blade.

“They’re gone because of you,” another says, their glowing eyes locking onto you.

The memory of their deaths floods back, and for a moment, despair threatens to consume you. But then, a spark of defiance ignites within you.

“No,” you declare, your voice trembling but resolute. “My parents fought for me because they loved me. Their strength lives on in me.”

As you speak, a spark ignites within you and a light bursts from your chest, growing brighter and brighter until it shatters the vision completely.

When you awake, you are back in the ruins, but the orb is gone and replaced by a glowing sigil carved into the ground. A group of angels emerge from the light, their forms cold and imposing, surrounding and taunting you.

“You are the daughter of the unworthy,” one growls. “You do not belong here.”

The ground beneath you begins to tremble violently, as if on the verge of collapsing, leaving you with the terrifying image of being swallowed whole by the earth.

"You’ve wandered too far, daughter of the unworthy,” another snarls, his voice dripping with disdain. “You will come with us.”

Hoseok surges forward, tackling one of the angels out of the way just as they move to strike, his body a shield between you and the looming threat.

The angels begin to attack, their divine weapons slicing through the air. Hoseok fights back, his shadows clashing against their light, but the odds quickly turn against him.

Just as an angel lunges toward you, a torrent of crimson flames erupt around you.

The demons burst into the celestial realm like a thunderstorm unleashed, their ferocity shaking the very ground you stand on. They tear through the angels with primal intensity, wings of shadow slicing through radiant light. The air explodes with the clash of forces, sparks of divine and infernal energy illuminating the battlefield. The angels regroup, attempting to hold their ground, but the demons’ sheer power is overwhelming, forcing them to falter. The struggle grows fiercer, a chaotic dance of light and darkness, giving you and Hoseok the precious seconds you need.

“Go!” one of the demons roars, his voice booming above the fray.

Hoseok doesn’t hesitate. His hand wraps around your wrist as he leads you away from the battle, his movements quick and deliberate. The celestial realm trembles as if it too was desperate to trap you. But with one last glance at the chaos unfolding behind you, you follow Hoseok through the thinning veil of light and shadow.

The vibrations of the celestial realm linger even after you are back in the car, the faint hum coursing through the tires as Hoseok speeds down the road. Only when the sensation fades completely does he slow, pulling into a dimly lit truck stop by the side of the highway.

He parks in the farthest corner of the lot, the neon lights of the diner casting strange reflections on the car windows. For a moment, neither of you speaks, the weight of what just happened pressing down on the silence.

Finally, Hoseok exhales, his hands gripping the steering wheel tightly. “That was...close.”

You nod, your voice caught in your throat before you manage to speak. “The angels... they blame me. They call me the daughter of the unworthy.” You look at him, your chest tightening. “What do they mean?”

Hoseok’s jaw clenches. “They’re trying to mess with your head. Angels aren’t as pure as you’ve been led to believe, though not all of them are bad, still the majority are treacherous beings. That’s why they try to break you, to make you question yourself.” His voice softens, a rare vulnerability creeping in. “But you don’t break.”

You stare out the window, the glow of the truck stop lights blurring in your vision. “I don’t understand any of this. The book... my parents... me? Why would the angels want me so badly?”

Hoseok hesitates, as if weighing how much he should reveal. “Because you’re more important than you realize… to both sides.”

Before you can press him further, the sound of an approaching vehicle breaks the silence. You turn to see a sleek black SUV pulling up beside you. Hoseok’s posture shifts immediately, tense but not surprised. The passenger door opens, and a familiar figure emerges – tall and commanding, with molten gold eyes that catch the light like fire.

The demon leans casually against the car door, his sharp smile returning. “You’ve been busy.”

Hoseok crosses his arms, his stance rigid. “What do you want?”

The demon’s smile doesn’t falter, but his tone turns serious. “The magic book is a trap, rigged to lure her into their hands. We follow its essence to her house,” he says, nodding toward you. “When you aren’t there, we think we’ve lost you. But then she calls us.”

You blink in confusion. “I call you?”

The demon’s gaze flickers to you, his amusement returning. “That burst of light back there? Your power. It cuts through the realms like a beacon. It leads us right to you.”

You glance at Hoseok, the unease in your chest growing. “If the book is a trap,” you ask, “how do we find the relic now?”

The demon straightens, folding his arms as he regards you both. “The oracle,” he says simply. “She’s the only one who knows its true location.”

Hoseok’s jaw tightens further, but his voice is calm. “Then we go to her next.”

The demon’s sharp smile widens, his gaze lingering on Hoseok as he steps back. “Good luck. You’re going to need it.”

As the demon retreats into the night, the air grows still again.

You watch Hoseok’s face, searching for any hint of what he’s feeling, but he remains a fortress of unreadable emotions – at least, that’s how it seems.

“Angel,” he finally breaks the silence, his voice softer than you’ve ever heard it, “there’s something I need to tell you... I-I just don’t know how.”

When his eyes meet yours, you don’t see the confident, alluring Hoseok you’ve grown used to. Instead, there’s something raw, almost vulnerable, in the way he looks at you – like his eyes are holding back a sadness too heavy to share. Yet, his aura shifts, and you can feel it – a swirling mix of hesitation, protectiveness, and something deeper that makes your chest tighten.

“I think it’s a little too late to play coy,” you tease lightly, trying to ease the weight in the air. “Hoseok, you can tell me anything.”

But your attempt at humor doesn’t break through. He breaks eye contact instead, his shoulders sinking as he stares down at his hands. A deep sigh escapes him, like he’s carrying the weight of the celestial realm itself.

“I-I…” He hesitates, his fingers curling tightly against his lap before finally continuing, “I just don’t want anything to happen to you. So, I’m thinking… maybe we should stay at my place from now on. Only I can enter my realm or allow others in, so it’s the safest option. If, and only if, that’s okay with you.”

The words come out in a rush, like he’s afraid of what your response might be.

You reach over, placing your hand on his. Your thumb traces soothing circles across his knuckles as you offer a small, reassuring smile. “Honestly? I think that’s the most practical decision we’ve made since we met.”

His lips twitch upward into a faint smile, but his eyes betray him. There’s more he isn’t saying, and deep down, you know it. Still, you decide not to push him. He’ll tell you when he’s ready. The connection between you has always been inexplicably strong, and now, you can feel something strange radiating from him – lingering traces of fear and worry mingled with anger and something similar to passion brewing within.

Hoseok remains paused in the moment before nodding. He gently pulls his hand from yours, starts the car, and turns onto the empty road. The low hum of the engine fills the silence as the truck stop disappears in the rearview mirror, and you can’t shake the feeling that Hoseok’s thoughts are elsewhere.

The journey to his realm is quiet, the kind of quiet that feels heavy rather than peaceful. When you arrive, his home seems different – still beautiful, still otherworldly, but tonight, it feels like a sanctuary desperately trying to shield you both from the outside chaos.

That night, when he wraps his arms around you, his touch feels different. There is a new intensity in the way he holds you, like he’s afraid you’ll vanish if he lets go. His body is warm against yours, but his breathing betrays him – steady, yet just a little too deep, as though he’s grounding himself.

You don’t say anything. You don’t need to. The quiet between you speaks louder than words, the weight of everything unsaid pressing gently against your chest. You nestle closer, your head resting against him, and for a fleeting moment, you feel safe.

But the questions linger in your mind, along with the undeniable sense that tonight has changed something between you.

The morning comes too quickly, and with it, the next step of your journey. The oracle waits, and though you don’t know what answers she might hold, you can’t escape the gnawing feeling that they will change everything once again.

As the car moves through a landscape shifting from the familiar to the extraordinary, you once again feel the weight of silence between you and Hoseok. The road stretches endlessly until the terrain begins to morph. The skies shimmer in unnatural hues, and the air seems to hum with energy. By the time you arrive at the oracle’s realm, it feels like stepping into the pages of a sci-fi novel.

Towering structures pulsate with glowing light, and pathways crisscross the sky, suspended by invisible forces. Beings of every shape and size move through the streets, some humanoid, others unlike anything you’ve ever imagined. Hoseok guides you through the bustling city to a nondescript door nestled between two towering spires.

“This is it,” he says, his voice steady but his eyes betraying a flicker of apprehension.

Inside, the world is alive with music and chatter. The oracle’s domain is a club that seems to defy the laws of physics – floating platforms hover midair, and the walls shift colors and shapes in time with the music. In the center of it all stands the oracle, her presence commanding yet ethereal. Draped in shimmering fabrics that appear to move like liquid light, she greets you with a knowing smile.

“You’ve come,” she says, her voice resonating in a way that seems to speak directly to your soul.

The oracle wastes no time. Her gaze, sharp and unyielding, locks onto yours, as though she can see straight through your skin and into the very essence of your being. Her lips part, and her voice – low, melodic, yet weighted with an otherworldly power – begins to weave a story you haven’t known you were ready to hear.

“You carry their light, you know,” she says, her eyes narrowing slightly as a faint glow reflects in her irises. “Your parents. They knew this day would come, though they feared it more than anything. The whispers of your destiny haunted them, even as they tried to shield you from it.”

You blink, startled. “They…they never told me anything like that.”

“They didn’t have to,” the oracle replies, tilting her head. “They saw what you were – what you are. You are no angel, no demon, but something far more dangerous to both. You are balance itself, child. A tether. A bridge. The kind of being that can tip the scales of the universe with a single choice.”

Her words send a shiver down your spine. “What does that even mean?” you ask, your voice barely above a whisper.

“It means,” the oracle continues, “that your existence is a thread in the great tapestry of the realms. Angels, demons, mortals – all of them tug at it, desperate to shape it to their will. But you…you were born to hold the threads together. To keep the chaos and order in check.” She leans forward, her gaze softening slightly. “It’s why the relic calls to you, why you can see things others cannot.”

Her words strike like lightning, illuminating truths that feel both foreign and deeply familiar. You struggle to breathe under the weight of it all, a sense of dread gripping your chest as a flood of emotions surge – disbelief, confusion, fear. Yet beneath it all is a strange sense of resonance, as though pieces of a puzzle you didn’t know you held were clicking into place. A connection to something greater than yourself, and the idea lingers, pulling at threads deep within you, stirring something primal, something you can’t name.

The oracle watches you closely, her piercing gaze reading the turmoil in your heart. “You’ve felt it, haven’t you?” she asks, her tone neither accusing nor gentle but steeped in certainty. “The pull. The connection to something greater than yourself. It’s not a coincidence. You were born to walk this path.”

“But…what does that mean? What am I supposed to do?” you ask, your voice trembling under the weight of it all. “Who am I supposed to trust?”

The oracle tilts her head, her expression unreadable but not unkind. “Trust,” she says slowly, “is a fragile thing. You will find it where you least expect it and lose it in the places you believe it to be safe. But that is not the question you should ask.”

“Then what should I ask?” you press.

“You should ask yourself,” she replies, “who you will be if trust is betrayed. If you are strong enough to walk this path regardless of the hands that reach for yours.”

You open your mouth to respond, but she continues, her words shifting like silk over steel. “Your future is not a single thread, child. It is a web of possibilities, branching out in ways even I cannot fully see. Which thread survives will depend on the choices you make.”

She pauses, her expression darkening as she speaks of the relic. “It is a source of unimaginable power, capable of restoring balance or obliterating it entirely. In the wrong hands, it will bring devastation to all realms – angelic, demonic, and mortal alike. Even those who seek balance must beware their own temptations.”

The room seems to dim as her voice grows quieter, darker. “You were born to hold the balance. The relic calls to you because it knows this. But power…power always demands a price. Will you pay it?”

Her words linger in the air long after she finishes speaking, leaving you with a feeling of unease you can’t quite shake.

Finally, she reveals the relic’s location, speaking its name like a hidden key that unlocks a door in your mind. It feels both distant and perilously close, a destination that will mark the next step in your journey. Her warning is clear, her gaze sharper than before. “Be sure you are willing to pay the price before you claim it,” she says softly, her voice almost a whisper but carrying the weight of a scream.

The oracle steps back then, as if retreating into the shadows of her domain, her words a haunting echo in your mind as you stand on the precipice of a destiny you never sought to claim – born to walk this path.

After the intensity of the oracle’s revelations, Hoseok suggests taking a moment to explore the peaceful realm. It is a rare sanctuary, a place where violence is forbidden, and the energy of the realm soothes frayed nerves. As the two of you wander through the narrow streets, the grandeur of the city gives way to quieter corners, where the hum of activity softens into a tranquil buzz.

“Did you know about all of this?” you ask hesitantly, breaking the silence as you walk beside him. “The balance, the relic, my… role in all of it?”

Hoseok glances at you, his expression guarded. “I had my suspicions,” he admits after a pause. “But it’s not something you just… bring up in conversation.”

You frown. “Suspicions? You’ve been guiding me through this chaos, and all you had were suspicions?”

“Would you have believed me if I’d told you everything from the start?” he counters, his voice calm but laced with frustration. “You barely believe it now.”

He isn’t wrong, but his words don’t ease the unease twisting in your chest. “It feels like everyone knows more about me than I do,” you mutter. “Like my whole life has been leading to something I didn’t even know I’m a part of.”

Hoseok stops walking and turns to face you, his gaze steady. “Your life is still yours,” he says softly. “No one can take that from you – not angels, not demons, not anyone.”

His words carry a surprising sincerity, and for a moment, you feel a flicker of reassurance. Before you can respond, the two of you reach a small pub tucked away in a shadowed corner of the street. Its wooden sign sways gently in the breeze, and the soft glow of lanterns spilling from the windows makes it look almost out of place in the grand realm.

“Come on,” Hoseok says, nodding toward the door. “Let’s take a break.”

The pub’s interior is cozy, with warm lighting and a scent of spiced cider that immediately wraps around you like a comforting blanket. The two of you settle at a corner table, where Hoseok orders drinks, his choice of a deep red wine once again catching you off guard.

As you sit in the tentative quiet, you can’t help but ask, “Do you ever get tired of all this? The secrecy, the danger?”

Hoseok’s lips quiver into a small, humorless smile. “You get used to it. But tired? Yeah. Sometimes.”

“Then why do it?” you press. “Why keep helping me if it’s so exhausting?”

“Because someone has to,” he says simply. “And because… I believe in you.”

Your heart falters at his words, but before you can say anything, the moment is shattered by a voice cutting through the pub’s warmth.

“Demon Prince,” the figure says, their tone reverent yet bold as they approach your table.

You stiffen at the title, your gaze snapping to Hoseok. His jaw clenches, and a flicker of annoyance crosses his face. “I told you not to call me that,” he says sharply, his voice low but firm.

The figure hesitates, their expression faltering for a moment before they bow their head slightly. “Of course. My apologies.”

Your mind races, the stranger’s words echoing over and over. Demon Prince. The title carries a weight that can’t be ignored, and the way Hoseok reacts – defensive, irritated – only adds to your growing unease.

As the figure moves away, you lean toward him, your voice a hushed whisper. “What is that about? Why would they call you that?”

“It’s just a nickname,” Hoseok says quickly, his tone casual, though his eyes refuse to meet yours. “An old joke from another time.”

You don’t believe him for a second, but the intensity of his expression makes it clear he isn’t going to say anything more. The rest of your time in the pub passes in strained silence, the warm atmosphere doing little to thaw the tension building between you.

By the time you leave, the words Demon Prince linger in your mind, impossible to dismiss.

The drive back to Hoseok’s realm is unbearable. The silence stretched taut, every moment amplifying the questions you’re too afraid to ask but can’t keep inside any longer. Finally, you break. “Is it true?” you ask, your voice trembling. “Are you the Demon Prince?”

He doesn’t answer right away. His hands grip the steering wheel tightly, knuckles pale against the dark leather. For a moment, you think he might deny it – dismiss the stranger’s claim as baseless. But then he exhales, his voice low and weighted with regret. “I didn’t want you to see me that way.”

Anger and hurt surge, breaking through the thin veil of calm you’ve been clinging to. “If you can lie about this,” you say, your voice cracking, “what else are you hiding? How am I supposed to trust you now?”

Hoseok flinches at your words, the flicker of pain in his expression only amplifying your frustration. He tries to explain, but his answers feel evasive, and every word only widens the chasm growing between you. By the time you reach his house, the argument has spiraled into a storm of emotions you can’t contain.

“I need to go home,” you say firmly, your voice leaving no room for debate.

Hoseok’s eyes darken, the calm mask he’s worn earlier now completely shattered. “You can’t,” he says, his tone almost pleading. “It’s not safe for you out there – not until we finish this.”

But you shake your head, overwhelmed by the oracle’s revelations, the looming danger of the relic, and now this crushing sense of betrayal. “I can’t stay here. I just… I need space.”

Hoseok looks as though he wants to argue further, but after a long pause, he relents. “I can force you to stay here…but I won’t. At least take this with you,” he says as he hands you a glowing dagger, “if you run into any trouble, it’s been enchanted with a magic that can harm any celestial being.”

You accept the dagger, “Fine, now can I go home?” You try to sound stern, but your heart aches as you ask him.

His shoulders slump, and with a wave of his hand, the bathroom door shimmers and shifts, revealing the familiar sight of your apartment beyond it. The magic is seamless, but the ache in your chest is anything but.

As you step through the portal, you can’t bring yourself to look back. You tell yourself this is what you need – that space will bring clarity. But as the door closes behind you, severing the connection to Hoseok’s world, you feel the hollow ache of uncertainty settle deep in your chest.

The days pass in a haze of monotony, the kind you used to crave when life felt too chaotic. You go back to work, immersing yourself in tasks that once made you feel accomplished, but now, everything feels hollow. Your coworkers invite you to dinner, drinks – anything to pull you out of whatever funk they think you're in. You politely decline each time, excusing yourself with a smile that doesn’t reach your eyes.

At night, the silence of your apartment feels heavier than before, and the city noise outside your window does little to fill the void. Sleep becomes elusive, your dreams haunted by visions of Hoseok. In them, he reaches for you, his eyes filled with desperation, but every time, just as your fingers are about to touch, he disappears into the shadows.

You startle awake one night, the image of him crumpled on the ground etched into your mind. His face pale, his body broken – it feels so real, too real to ignore. Shaking your head, you push the thought aside, blaming it on the stress of everything you’ve been through.

In an attempt to calm yourself, you shuffle to the kitchen and set a kettle on the stove for tea. The rhythmic ticking of the stove timer is interrupted by a sound that sends a chill down your spine – a heavy thud against your front door.

Your heart races as you reach for the weapon Hoseok had insisted you take with you. The handle feels foreign in your grip, but the weight of it gives you a strange sense of comfort. Slowly, you approach the door, your breaths shallow.

When you swing it open, the sight before you makes your blood run cold. Hoseok collapses into your entryway, his body battered and bloodied. “Hoseok!” you gasp, dropping the weapon and rushing to his side.

He groans, barely conscious as you hook an arm under his shoulder and struggle to drag him inside. The door slams shut behind you as you half-drag, half-carry him to the couch. His wounds look deep, blood soaking through his torn clothes, but as you clean them, you notice something strange. The gashes are closing before your eyes, knitting together with an almost supernatural speed.

With everything you’ve been through, it’s another magical occurrence that only keeps you astonished for a brief moment, before reminding you that life will never be normal again.

Hoseok’s eyes flutter open, and he gives you a weak smile. “I… couldn’t stay away,” he says, his voice strained but steady. “I tried to get the relic on my own, but…”

His words trail off as your emotions surge – relief that he is alive, anger at his recklessness, confusion over his sudden reappearance. “You shouldn’t have gone alone,” you say, your voice trembling. “What if you hadn’t made it back?”

“I had to,” he murmurs, his hand reaching up to cover yours. “I can’t do this without you.”

As you stare into his eyes, the weight of his words settles over you. “Why, Hoseok? Why do you need this relic so badly?”

He hesitates, his expression torn. Finally, he answers, “Because I want to be free. I want to live as a mortal again. To feel what it’s like to truly live – love, marry, have children, and grow old. I’ve spent centuries trapped in this endless cycle, and I can’t do it anymore.”

His voice breaks, the raw vulnerability in his tone catching you off guard. For the first time, you see him not as a guide or even a demon, but as a person – someone carrying the weight of lifetimes of pain.

Your anger softens, replaced by a mix of empathy and uncertainty. “Hoseok…” you begin, but the words catch in your throat. You don’t know what to say, and deep down, you’re not sure if anything can make this easier.

He reaches for your hand again, his grip firm but gentle. “I lied because I didn’t want you to see me as just a demon. I wanted you to trust me for who I am, not what I am. I didn’t mean to hurt you.”

The vulnerability in his words stirs something in you, but the ache in your chest reminds you of everything that’s happened – the oracle’s revelations, the stranger’s words, the secrets he has kept.

You sigh, leaning into him, placing your forehead against his. “I still need time,” you say softly as you look sorrowfully into his eyes, before gently pulling your hand away. “This is all just too much to process.”

That night, you watch over him as he sleeps, the rise and fall of his chest steadying your frayed nerves. His wounds are almost completely healed, but the scars they leave on your trust will take longer.

The silence of the room is broken only by the faint sound of the city outside, but inside, the air is thick with unresolved tension. As dawn begins to break, you can’t shake the feeling that this is just the beginning – that the choices you make now will ripple far beyond anything you could foresee.

And somewhere, deep in the recesses of your mind, you know the journey is far from over.

[starsarefire824]

Okay, so I don't really understand vore, but from what I've seen people were mostly concerned because of the anon going around.

Like, they were essentially asking people to write porn? Which, you know, maybe don't do unless they've specified they're okay with it?

Also, I guess the cannibalism AU (which I don't get either, so take this with a grain of salt) involves more than just the act, like the serial killer aspect of it, for example. Which all goes back to anon just asking for porn out of nowhere.

At least, that's how I took it 🤷🏽‍♀️

I can't say I am well versed in vore or cannibalism as kinks tbh. It's just not my personal cup of tea as far as reading for fanfic. Or any genre of story.

But from what I saw the vore anon had put *non sexual* in most of their posts when they asked. As well as when they talked to me expressed there being more to it; such as a demon au would be something they'd want to read. Which in my mind makes it a little more of something that's not any different than what we've seen in films or read in books, or....in a show called Stranger Things.

Violence is violence. This is just a different version of a human being mutilated. And again, I don't see any difference in wanting to read a vore fanfiction and reading the Hannibal Lecter novels. You're getting inside the head of someone who on some level gets sexual gratification from consuming human flesh. And okay fine---most humans reading it probably don't get off on it---but I know for a fact that there are people who DO.

And to me, as long as this is just a fantasy in their head, that no one is hurt in the process, in REAL LIFE, than there isn't really anything wrong with it. In fact, it's a healthy and safe way for people with extreme kinks to explore their fantasies without violating consent or causing harm.

So Idk, in all fairness, yeah maybe anon should have vetted the blogs they chose to ask better. Bu I just think instead of shunning, making fun of, and running people off the internet, why not just ask a couple questions. It was pretty simple to get to what the anon was looking for after a few questions. And their request, in the end, really is about something entirely different than getting off sexually.

So, even tho I personally don't give a flying f*ck what fuels people's jets. You do you boo. My main point is how this fandom treats violence vs. sex, and the people who derive different things from their fandom experience. It's become super tiring and I've never experienced this level of gatekeeping and purity culture in any other fandom I've been apart of.

Thanks for offering intelligent, calm discussion. 🖤

[gunzomi]

Anyway I'm really fucking angry about being looked down upon for being horny about stuff in the year of our lord 2024. I'm in spaces where there aren't any children but I still get made to feel bad for being raunchy or appreciating art based on my attraction to the characters depicted and its fucking exhausting. I spent my whole life being sexually repressed only to find that in my favorite queer friendly spaces I'm being looked down upon for finding some joy in my new sexual freedom. it's not cool or funny and you're not making any community safer for doing this

[qweerhet]

"no children are being forced to take hrt or have surgeries that change the appearance of their genitals" intersex children are, actually

"everyone was assigned a gender at birth" there are intersex people who were not assigned a gender at birth

"trans women are amab trans people and trans men are afab trans people" there are intersex people who were assigned male at birth and later transitioned medically and socially to male, and intersex people who were assigned female at birth and later transitioned medically and socially to female

"assigned gender at birth is a 1:1 predictor of tma vs tme experience" there are intersex people who were assigned female at birth and experienced violence for being a woman with a penis + testes + secondary sex characteristics like facial hair + having a testosterone-dominant hormone profile, and had to transition medically and socially to be socially and medically recognized as women as adults

"bodies born with sex variations are medically nonbinary" no, they are intersex, and intersex people can be a binary gender if they want to be

"nonbinary people who want non-cisnormative sex variations are mentally ill/diseased for wanting a disordered body" no, bodies with sex variations are not disordered, and it harms intersex people for them to be seen as disordered regardless of if the body in question was born that way or created through surgery

"cis women don't experience transphobic body policing/will never understand how it feels to have your womanhood constantly in question and subject to violence over things you can't change" intersexism overlaps heavily with transphobia and an intersex woman can both identify as cis and have a penis, testes, be testosterone-dominant, etc, and have visible signs of those traits. an intersex woman can also have been amab or be currently legally designated as male by the government and still identify as cis.

stop saying intersexist shit in your trans discourse thanks

[opencommunion]

since people are talking about Imane Khelif, some reminders for discussing intersex issues: "Disorders of sex development" or "DSD" is an intersexist term that contributes to medical violence and social alienation. The correct word is "intersex," a neutral term for the characteristics that the term "DSD" others and pathologizes.

You can be intersex and cis. You can be intersex and trans. A lot of intersex people have more complicated relationships to those concepts/terms. Being cis or trans doesn't make someone more or less intersex.

Gender testing in women's sports is both transmisogynistic and intersexist. In practice it usually impacts intersex cis women because trans women are already disqualified by their social histories. Intersex cis athletes subjected to abuse and discrimination due to gender testing results are victims of intersexism, not "misdirected" or "mistaken" transmisogyny. Intersexism, transmisogyny, and misogynoir all overlap in many ways due to the intertwined histories of sex, gender, and race categories.

"Proof" that an intersex cis woman is not a trans woman (i.e. that she was AFAB'd) will not stop TERFs from attacking her, because TERFs also do not view intersex cis women as real women (case in point).

No one's private medical info should be reported on the news, but when an athlete is outed as intersex in this way, trying to defend their honor by claiming they're not really intersex only reinforces intersexism. Arguing over what kind of intersex variation someone has (e.g. hormonal vs. chromosomal) and whether it "counts" is intersexist and also weird. Leave us alone!

anyway, congrats to Imane on her win

[problematic-yuri-poll]

Problematic Yuri Tournament Season 2 - Finals

Malcatras' Maiden vs. Murciélago

Malcatras' Maiden (visual novel by Nadia Nova)

thriller, action, erotica

Sexual Content: HIGH; Gore: MODERATE; Violence: HIGH // Note: contents in question are mainly described in text.

Mod submission.

Mod-submitted problematic elements:

A doggirl maid is in love with her master and adoptive mother, and overall navigates complicated and toxic relationships with her family.

Official content warnings:

Malcatras' Maiden is a game for adult audiences only. This work contains intense themes of toxic relationships, manipulation, child abuse, regular abuse, dubiously consensual sexual acts, incestuous themes and explicit bloody acts of heavy violence, including death and murder.

Mod-submitted propaganda:

Battle maid visual novel with cool powers... We love messy relationships and toxic incest yuri and messed up broken maid girls... we love Liliana.... trans puppygirl maid who just wants a place to belong..

Murciélago (manga by Yoshimurakana)

action, comedy

Sexual Content: HIGH; Gore: HIGH; Violence: HIGH

Submitted 2 times.

Submitted problematic elements:

Main character is a serial killer lesbian. theres incest, rape, body horror, emotional manipulation, among others

Protagonist is a serial killer, sexual predator, and a pedophile. She's basically the worst woman of all time. She also manipulates several women into sleeping with her.

Submitted content warnings:

oh yeah i mean tw for violence, incest, rape, bullying, children in peril and others

Extreme violence and gore, explicit sex, sexual assault, pedophilia, child murder, cannibalism, and just a general mess of nasty stuff

Submitted propaganda:

Its got an actually evil lesbian MC who has a lot of depth. Its funny as fuck and its got really interesting narrative, amazing action and compelling characters. Its also very sexy and beautifully drawn

Kuroko Koumori is the best character in yuri history and absolutely nobody does it like her.

[genderkoolaid]

Over the years, I have observed that it’s easier for people to digest sex work when it’s done in a subversive way. Think of the way pro dommes are celebrated because their job is “to treat cis-men like shit”, or of the recent marketing trend around “ethical” porn. Yet, being a true ally means accepting sex work in all of its forms. If you find sex work praiseworthy when it’s queer and anticonformist, but you frown upon it when it’s done for the male gaze, I would like to invite you to examine your feeling as internalised whorephobia. What you praise is not what most sex work is like. The majority of sex work is not queer and it’s not anticonformist — the majority of sex work is focused on cis-men. It’s true that doing sex work for the male gaze mostly perpetuates social gender dynamics, but I would like to ask how damaging that really is if it’s done consciously and consensually. It’s a little bit like kink and domination: women who decide to be submissive in BDSM are replaying social gender dynamics, but they choose to do it for different reasons. I would apply the same line of thinking to sex work. If what we do in traditional sex work is consensual, it’s infantilising for people to call us out as pure objects of male desire without agency – that is objectifying us too. If you think that sex work is not feminist, that’s because the society we live in is not feminist. This discussion is too complex and nuanced to be tied to the black-and-white view “no male gaze equals empowerment” vs. “male gaze equals disempowerment.” Violence against sex workers is everywhere on this planet, and one of the factors (besides bad laws) that contribute to that is people seeing us as lesser humans, deserving of little or no respect. That makes us easy targets, the punching bags people can abuse without feeling guilty or ashamed. That’s why it’s important to produce a cultural discourse where sex workers are respected for what they do, even when it’s for the male gaze. Dancing for the male gaze in the strip club might not contribute to changing society, but the question is: is the strip club or any of our workplaces the right place to change society? Doesn’t change come from other places? From schools, from families, from social circles? Our workplaces are for the exact purpose they are called: for work. I never saw anyone asking a plumber to be responsible for societal change. We still have bills to pay, we happen to pay them by exploiting the male gaze, and it’s whorephobic to condemn us for that. Sex workers are tired of being scapegoats for society’s problems.

[synchodai]

HBO's Continued Insistence on Dumbing Down Westerosi Politics

So there have been countless thinkpieces already on how GOT simplified the feudalist politics of Westeros (by giving a lowborn sellsword lordship over The Reach, by having no consequences for destroying the Sept of Baelor, etc.), but I haven't seen a lot of people talking about that for House of the Dragon.

The worst being that the show presupposes that Rhaenyra is the lawful heir when the books showed there are plenty of lawful arguments why she wouldn't be.

Mind you that I've been enjoying the show a lot so far. This is just to vent out my frustration with the writers' failure to fully engage with the values and protocols of the Middle Age-inspired setting. The show seems uninterested in laws of the Realm in a story ostensibly about politics, save for when they're using it as an excuse to amplify depictions of sex and violence.

Blacks vs Greens wasn't a matter of misunderstanding of who each side thought Viserys wanted on the throne. It was the Targaryens' belief of their absolute authority clashing with the Realm's established traditions. Everyone always knew who Viserys chose as heir. In Fire and Blood, Grand Maester Orwyle said as much when he was parleying with Rhaenyra on behalf of the Greens.

Rhaenyra heard his terms in stony silence, then asked Orwyle if he remembered her father, King Viserys. "Of course, Your Grace," the maester answered. "Perhaps you can tell us who he named as his heir and successor," the queen said, her crown upon her head. "You, Your Grace," Orwyle replied. And Rhaenyra nodded and said, "With your own tongue you admit I am your lawful queen. Why do you serve my half-brother, the pretender?" Munkun tells us that Orwyle gave a long and erudite reply, citing the Andal law and the Great Council of 101. Mushroom claims he stammered and voided his bladder. Whichever is true, his answer did not satisfy Princess Rhaenyra.

(For non-F&B readers: Munkun is the Grand Maester who served Aegon III, the king who came after this civil war. Munkun's book, The Dance of the Dragons, A True Telling, is one of Fire and Blood's source texts. Mushroom is the King Landing court jester from Viserys I to Aegon III's reign. One is a source written with academic rigor but is secondhand at best. The other is a firsthand eyewitness account but is from a literal fool who will take every chance to make things more scandalous and sexual to please the crowd.)

In House of the Dragon, they replaced Orwyle with Otto and Orwyle's discussion of legal precedent with Otto handing Rhaenyra a book page from Alicent. It's quite evident here that the writers, much like Mushroom, thought a discussion on the actual laws of the Realm were negligible in this story about a succession war.

Even Alicent made no pretense that Viserys chose Rhaenyra over her children and I have no idea why the HBO writers decided to make her mistakenly think otherwise. Maybe they thought a queen regent pushing her son to take the throne over another woman made her appear unsympathetic as a character, but if anything, this only makes show!Alicent less politically savvy and more delusional than her book counterpart, fully believing an addled king's vague muttering on his deathbed was sufficient grounds to change heirs last minute.

Book!Alicent following Andal laws instead of her husband's wishes makes sense given her Andal upbringing, her devotion to the Faith of the Seven which enforces said laws, and her desire to protect her children from Rhaenyra given that Rhaenyra has shown she's not above murdering family (see: Laenor).

In the books, there was a long discussion between the former king's council on who should succeed Viserys.

Here are the arguments for Rhaenyra:

Rhaenyra was older than her brothers and had more Targaryen blood

the late king had chosen her as his successor, that he had repeatedly refused to alter the succession despite the pleadings of Queen Alicent and her greens

hundreds of lords and landed knights had done obeisance to the princess in 105 AC, and sworn solemn oaths to defend her rights.

Here are the arguments for Aegon II:

many of the lords who had sworn to defend the succession of Princess Rhaenyra were long dead [...]

Ironrod, the master of laws, cited the Great Council of 101 and the Old King’s choice of Baelon rather than Rhaenys in 92

the hallowed Andal tradition wherein the rights of a trueborn son always came before the rights of a mere daughter

Ser Otto reminded them that Rhaenyra’s husband was none other than Prince Daemon, and “we all know that one’s nature. Make no mistake, should Rhaenyra ever sit the Iron Throne, it will be Lord Flea Bottom who rules us, a king consort as cruel and unforgiving as Maegor ever was [...]”

Should the princess reign [...] Jacaerys Velaryon would rule after her. “Seven save this realm if we seat a bastard on the Iron Throne.”

Once again, the show chose to cut out this long political discussion. Instead, the council had already made up their mind and decided to stage a coup (when in their perspectives from the books, it would definitely not be a coup).

For all their marketing how two sides are equally grey, HotD is actively delegitimizing Aegon II. The strongest argument for him is how his claim follows the laws of the Realm, but the show doesn't seem to care about the laws of the Realm or the political need to maintain a more predictable/tested transfer of power.

Instead, the show focuses on Viserys's relationship with his daughter and the mysticism of the Targaryen bloodline. In doing so, they emphasize Rhaenyra's strongest arguments for succession — that she's more of a Targaryen than her half-brother and that her father prefered her.

And what for? Because in our modern-day, we don't have male-prefered inheritance and people can only imagine misogyny as the only injustice here? What about the injustice of a monarch exercising absolute control, thinking that his "superior" heritage makes him above the established laws of the native people?

This is not to say Aegon II is unquestionably the heir. But this is to say that the show removed the political nuance of why people are questioning in the first place. Precedence isn't the end-all-be-all of succession, but neither is "because daddy said so".

[talesfromthecrypts]

Every time you get behind the camera on a film you are, consciously or not, putting yourself and your beliefs into the art, which makes it political. This is especially true for horror. How do you treat your women (boobs in the first 30 seconds on poster), your POC characters (black guy dies first), your queer characters? When your characters are in a country that isn't your own how do you portray the people there? If you're making a slasher what is the final girl's relationship with sex: Jess getting an abortion, Laurie nervous and innocent, Alice having an affair with the man running the camp? How you portray violence, who the violence is directed towards, how you use your nudity, how you shoot your sex, how you shoot your gore. How James Whale being gay or Karyn Kusama being a woman, or Ernest Dickersen being black will change their perspective on the world and how that informs their work. The police mistaking the black man at the end of Night of the Living Dead for a zombie; the Sawyers losing their jobs in Texas Chainsaw Massacre; the way the boys treat Ginger as soon as she's sexually available in Ginger Snaps; Glen/Glenda being gender queer in a wide release horror sequel in 2004; Louis as a slave owner in the IWTV novel vs a black business owner in the show; the characters in X and MaXXXine being porn stars and sex workers. Every building block you use to make your movie is inseparable from the life experiences of the people making it, from the lives you create for your characters, which makes any art you make inherently political. Its also what makes it worthwhile.

[evidence-based-activism]

you’re still ignoring WHY the rates for men are so high, because women get underreported and don’t get taken seriously at all when they commit crimes. Women abuse children more and initiate 70% of domestic violence, yet men are still portrayed as the villains. You should read the comments or some of the reblogs under that post. Full of people who have been abused by women and have been safer when around only men,and never been taken seriously. You say it’s a strawman fallacy but no it’s not, radfems say this shit all the timesee. and are very gender essentialist themselves. Maybe you’re not saying it but a lot of popular radfems are, to mostly agreement from other radfems,so you can’t really blame people for seeing that and understanding it to be a popular TERF take.

Hi -

So, I'm going to answer this ask and the one that includes the bustle link that I expect was also sent by you? However, I'm not going to continue putting in this degree of effort (i.e., reading and researching the information you send) unless you start matching that effort. It will be difficult for you to do so in an ask (although I suppose you could try), so I suggest you reblog this post to further discuss.

So, on to the response:

---

No, there is not a significant reporting gap (at least, not one caused by sex).

You said "women get underreported and don’t get taken seriously at all when they commit crimes", but there is no evidence that is the case. Let's take the crime data from two sources: the criminal victimization survey by the BJS [1] and the FBI crime data explorer [2]. These two sources are helpful for this discussion because the BJS attempts to determine total offenses including those not reported, while the FBI only looks at reported offenses.

For 2022 (rounding numbers) and looking at violent offenses (excluding homicide as the BJS report is interview based):

Male violent crime: 4,750,000 estimated by the BJS and 1,990,000 reported by the FBI for an overall 42% reporting rate

Female violent crime: 1,220,000 estimated by the BJS and 777,000 reported by the FBI for an overall 64% reporting rate

These numbers would suggest that more female offenders than male offenders are reported (i.e., a greater percent of female offenders, even though in absolute terms there are far fewer female offenders). However, there are some caveats to this data that makes me reluctant to state this conclusion:

The crime definitions between the BJS and FBI differ slightly. For example, I had to search through the "other crimes" for the FBI to find simple assault and several additional sexual assault categories to try and match the overall BJS "violent crime" statistic.

These stats are incident based not offender based. So, for example, if John commits 10 aggravated assaults and 5 of his victims report the assault to the police, 5 incidents are recorded in the system. Therefore, recidivism may or may not play a role in reporting rates.

I calculated the rate using the offender stats for individual offenders and "both male and female offender". Proportionally speaking a greater percent of female offenders are in the "both" category (23% vs 6%). Other statistics suggest more severe crimes are more likely to be reported to the police (e.g., 50% of aggravated assault is reported vs 37% of simple assault). If we make the assumption that violent crimes involving multiple offenders are more likely to be severe, then this could partially explain the disparity.

However, this point is essentially irrelevant, as the statistics previously discussed in the CDC report don't rely on reported crimes, they specifically interview representative samples in order to determine prevalence rates. (The difference between this data (and data in the BJS report) and the number of reported cases is how we know these crimes are under-reported.)

Just to drive the point home: the BJS study, which again, looks at both reported and unreported crime indicates:

Men take part in 84% of violent crimes and the only offender(s) in 79% of violent crimes (the stats for women are 21% and 17% respectively)

The offender-to-population ratio is 1.6 for men and 0.3 for women. That means the share of men in the "offender population" is 60% more than the share of men in the US population. The share of women offenders is 70% less than their share of the US population.

And before you send me another debunked myth: no men are not victimized more: the victim-to-offender population ratio for all violent crimes is 1.0 for both men and women.

I've also talked about how men don't under-report abuse (at least, not anymore than women do) in the past, so see this post for a couple more sources.

There's also no evidence that crimes committed by women get taken less seriously. However, it is true that when women do commit crimes, they tend to be less severe than the crimes committed by men (i.e., women commit more simple assault and aggravated assault). Given this, women's crimes may be taken "less seriously", but that's because the crimes are less serious, going by the accepted definitions of the crime. (And this is not my personal opinion! There is an actual "crime hierarchy" used in the American justice system that ranks crimes by degree of severity.)

In terms of legal consequences, women and men receive similar sentence lengths with one major caveat [3]. Caretakers of children, especially, young children, routinely received shorter sentences. Since women are more likely to be the primary caretaker of children, they'd be more likely to see this sentence reduction. However, this gap has been closing since the introduction of mandatory minimum sentencing. Some research suggests women may receive harsher sentences than men for "traditionally male crimes" [4].

Either way, crimes by women are clearly taken at least as "seriously" as crimes by men.

---

No women do not abuse children more.

You said "Women abuse children more", but this is an oft-repeated statement from terribly misinterpreted data.

The misconception comes from data from the child maltreatment report from the HHS [5]. This report looks at reports of child abuse and neglect. In it they found that 52% of victims had a female perpetrator and 47% had a male perpetrator. At first glance, this looks like women abuse more children (hence the wide-spread misinterpretation), however this neglects to take several things into consideration.

First, since about 51% of the population is female, even if we considered nothing else, these values would suggest parity in maltreatment (abuse + neglect) rates. Of course, even this interpretation is deeply flawed, but I thought it merited pointing out.

Second, and perhaps most important, these stats are not looking at incidence or even prevalence rates. This isn't a rate at all. For example, you may be tempted to interpret these as "52% of children in a women's care are abused" or "52% of women abuse children". These are, and I must stress this, completely incorrect interpretations. These stats say only that of child maltreatment (abuse+neglect) victims identified by CPS, 52% of them were maltreated by a women.

Next, these stats fail to take into account the fact that many more women are the primary caretaker of children. According to the American Time Use Survey (ATUS), mothers spend 80% more time caring for children than fathers. This disparity widens even further when you exclude the "entertainment" categories like playing or reading to children (130% increase, or more than double) [6]. This matters because it provides some insight into how rates of abuse would be different. You need to adjust for time spent with children to get a meaningful rate. Another way to look at this is that despite mothers spending almost twice the amount of time around children as fathers, they account for the same number of perpetrators. This alone should tell you that a child is more likely to be safe in the company of a randomly selected woman than a randomly selected man.

In case you still aren't convinced however, the report also clarifies that the perpetrator sex varied widely by maltreatment type. Women were the perpetrator in 58.5% of neglect cases (vs 41%) and 70.5% of medical neglect cases (vs 29%). But men were the perpetrator in 49.5% of physical abuse cases (vs 49%), 89% of sexual abuse cases (vs 8%), and 59% of emotional abuse cases (vs 41%). While no form of child maltreatment is ever acceptable, I hope I don't need to explain how abuse (which "requires an action") is different from neglect (which "occurs from an inaction") and requires different responses.

Speaking of neglect: there is much discourse on how much of the neglect (and medical neglect) registered by CPS is "true neglect" and how much is a result of poverty. This is particularly relevant considering single mothers are much more likely to live in poverty than married couples or single fathers. Examples of this may include: a mother doesn't have enough money to buy food and pay for rent so she and her child eat very little until her next paycheck, a single mother can't miss work without being fired so she sends her sick child to school, a single mother can't pay for child care so she has to choose between leaving her child home alone or having an unfit adult (her own abusive parent? an unsuitable boyfriend?) watch her child. In all of these situations, something absolutely needs to be done to help the child, but it likely isn't the same something as a child who's being beaten or sexually abused by his father.

Other notes on neglect: even the relatively higher proportion of female perpetrators for neglect and medical neglect in this sample are well below parity when adjusted for time spent with the child. It’s also likely that men’s rates of neglect are likely severely under-reported here. Why? Because a neglect case is rarely (if ever) opened for absentee ("deadbeat") dads; it's also unclear how many men with non-primary custody are listed as perpetrators of neglect. (I ask you: if mothers are considered neglectful for failing to intervene on behalf of their child in abusive/neglectful situations, why aren't fathers?)

Other studies on child abuse perpetration (sadly no national reports) show:

Evaluations of child fatalities in Missouri over a 8-year period showed men inflicted 71% of fatal injuries on young children [8]

Evaluations of fatal and nonfatal abusive head trauma over a 12-year period at the Children's Hospital of Denver found 69% of the perpetrators were male (including 74% of the perpetrators of fatal head traumas) [9]

Data from conviction rates and victimization surveys suggest that 4-5% of adult, child sex offenders (as in child sex offenders who are adults) are female, meaning that 95-96% are male [10]

Altogether, this indicates that men are more likely to abuse a child in their care than women. Unsurprisingly, it’s safer for children to be around women than around men.

---

No, women do not initiate more domestic violence/commit the same amount of abuse.

You said "women ... initiate 70% of domestic violence". It took me a while to find a source for this statistic, but I eventually found out it comes from a poorly done study that unfortunately finds company with a number of other poorly done studies touted by MRAs and anti-feminists.

Before we address that study specifically: a brief history of the nonsense plaguing domestic violence research.

To be clear, this is not a new discussion, we (the general we) have been having this same discussion about whether there's gender parity in domestic violence for, oh, 50 years or so. It is, possibly not entirely, but certainly mostly the result of the "Conflict Tactics Scale" (CTS). Intended for use in family violence research, it has several methodological flaws which make its results ... let's go with unreliable.

I really thought I'd discussed the CTS before now ... but can't find anything on my blog. But there is this post which is a nice pictograph about this next topic, which I will loop into our discussion of the CTS.

So ... why is the CTS so unreliable? Because "domestic violence" is not a homogeneous phenomenon. If I asked someone to picture an abusive relationship they are almost certainly going to imagine an abusive man controlling his partner through intimidation, likely restricting her behavior, and possibly hitting or otherwise physically harming her. This "typical" dynamic is what we think of when we hear "domestic abuse/violence". (I'd argue that it's what we should think of when discussing domestic violence, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise.)

Notably, what this doesn't include is the -- far more common -- case of situational violence. A "typical" example of situational violence is arguments that "gets out of hand" and end with one partner slapping/shoving/etc. the other (switching between perpetrator for different incidents) or two people who routinely get "nasty" (name calling, personal insults) to each other during arguments. There's no intimidation or controlling behavior and it doesn't escalate. It also is generally not associated with significant victim hardship (i.e., no/little increase in depression, anxiety, or PTSD; little fear or feeling unable to escape the relationship; no or few physical injuries; little or no economic hardship; etc.). It's also what's predominately being measured by the CTS.

This isn't to say that situational violence is "okay". It clearly isn't, no more than a bar fight or slapping a co-worker is okay. It is, however, far more comparable to these examples (bar fight, slapping a coworker, etc.) than it is to the standard conception of domestic violence (which itself is more comparable to being a prisoner of war [11]). Some people have tried to resolve this by renaming the standard conception to "intimate partner terrorism" or "domestic abuse with coercive control". I have ... mixed thoughts on this, so I'm going to leave it at this for now.

If you'd like to read more about this, Michael P. Johnson at PSU (who originally proposed this division back in the 1990s!) has written a book and also has numerous articles about the topic.

I have a lot of sources about the CTS/differences in violence perpetration rates, but this post is already very long and I plan to make a whole separate post about this at some point. So, I'm going to briefly summarize the points and give some references that would be particularly helpful.

So, the issues with CTS include:

Failure to include a full range of possible violent behaviors, including many that are almost always perpetrated by men, including: rape, murder, choking, and suffocation.

Failure to examine post-breakup/divorce time periods, despite post-separation being one of the most dangerous time periods for abused women (but, notably, not men).

Failure to examine context. This gets back at the paradigm I mentioned above: studies that do examine context have shown that the vast majority of coercive controlling violence (i.e., traditional abuse) is perpetrated by men and the vast majority of responsive violence (i.e., self-defense) is perpetrated by women.

Failure to examine the severity of the violence and/or violence impacts. Studies have also shown that women routinely receive the more severe injuries than men. That applies to both the injuries received from coercive controlling violence and from situational violence. Notably, men are rarely ever injured from responsive violence. Women also routinely report more severe psychological and social problems as a result of abuse.

Extremely poor phrasing of the questions. The CTS is unique in its false positive rate, as has been established by several other measures of violence. For example, simply adding the stem "Not including horseplay or joking around..." reduced the number of violent incidents reported and also showed higher rates of female victimization than male victimization.

Inconsistency with every other scale/measure used for determining prevalence rates of abuse! Hopefully it is obvious why this is an issue, but as an example: if I created a new measure for "depressive symptoms" and I found that it correlated very poorly with every other accepted measure of depressive symptoms then my new measure would be considered to have very poor "convergent validity". In non-politicized situations, my measure would likely never make it to the publishing stage, and would certainly fall out of use once this poor validity demonstrated by another study. Unfortunately, science is not immune to politics any more than the people conducting it are, as we can see with the survival of the CTS.

I gathered this information from a bunch of sources, but I've selected a few reviews (i.e., papers that "review" or condense many other papers into one) that would be helpful to you [12-16]. I recommend [12] in particular, although [13] touches on much of the same information and is much shorter. Ultimately, the CTS can, at most, be considered a measure of situational violence (and it's not even very good at that!).

---

So, finally, why is the 70% study [17] particularly bad?

All of the above problems with CTS apply, but in addition to all of that, they didn't just use the already flawed measure as it was ... no they, narrowed it down into 6 total questions. In total it asked about the respondent's perpetration of victimization of the following forms of violence: threatening with violence, pushing/shoving, throwing something, slapped, hit, kicked. They then "assessed" severity by asking a single question about injuries ("How often has partner had an injury, such as a sprain, bruise, or cut because of a fight with you?" and the corresponding victimization version.)

So, let's see ... failure to include predominately male forms of violence? Check. Further exclusion of even the existing items on the CTS that do examine this? Check! Failure to examine time past the relationship? Check. Failure to examine context? Check! Failure to examine severity of violence? Check. (Asking about a sprain or a bruise but not hospitalizations? broken bones? concussions?) Inconsistency with all other measures? Definitely!

Other problems with the study: they asked individuals to rate their perpetration and victimization, they did not examine their partners responses to such questions. This is a problem for a study like this, given that men tend to over-estimate their partners violence towards them and under-estimate their own violence towards their partner, and women do the opposite over-estimating their own violence and under-estimating their partners [12]. A note that a related problem has also shown up for the original CTS (i.e., if you asked both partners to complete the scale, their responses may agree on the "explaining a disagreement" item pair, but there was little if any agreement on the severe items like the "beating up" item pair).

To make a bad problem even worse: they condensed their multi-item (8-point) scales into binary (yes/no) categories and 3-item (low/medium/high) categories. This reduction in variance likely created artificially high rates for women and artificially low rates for men.

Hilariously (infuriatingly), they make it all the way through this data and then acknowledge that their study may not actually have examined domestic abuse at all! Instead it describes "common couple violence or situational violence", which, again, goes back to what the paradigm I introduced earlier. Of course, they don't revise their title or abstract to be less misleading ... that wouldn't be sensational enough.

Also, just to point this out: even this poorly designed, misleading study still showed "men were more likely to inflict an injury on a partner than ... women". So ... there you go. Even tipping the scales/design as far in favor of a "gender symmetry" result as they can possibly go, women still end up injured more than men.

---

So, for the rest of your ask:

"yet men are still portrayed as the villains"

well when 1 in 3 men around the world openly admit to abusing women, and they are the perpetrator of 90+% of homicides, and 10-67% of men openly admit to believing non-defensive physical and sexual violence against women is at least sometimes okay it's pretty easy to see why women can see them as the villain/enemy.

"You should read the comments or some of the reblogs under that post. Full of people who have been abused by women and have been safer when around only men,and never been taken seriously."

This is one of those cases where critical thinking skills are pretty important! Let me start you off:

Do I think that a social media post will garner a representative sample from which to draw conclusions? Or is more likely that people who agree with the post will comment on and re-blog it, spreading it more people who are more likely to agree with it?

Can I see the re-blog I'm making comments about (i.e., evidence-based-activism's re-blog?). If not, (hint: it's not in the re-blog viewer :)) is it possible that there are other hidden replies that are disagreeing with this post?

Maybe most importantly: do I need female-on-male or female-on-female violence to be as common as male-on-female and male-on-male violence in order to show compassion to those who do experience it? (Hint: you shouldn't!! Something doesn't need to be common to deserve sympathy and rare =/= excusable.)

In addition, this is touching on a pretty common issue with discourse these days -- the prioritization of "feeling" over "being". Someone (male or female) may feel safer around men, but statistically speaking they are safer around women. It's reasonable to respond to and accommodate people's feelings on an individual basis, it's not reasonable to base an ideology or policy around them.

"You say it’s a strawman fallacy but no it’s not, radfems say this shit all the timesee. ... Maybe you’re not saying it but a lot of popular radfems are, to mostly agreement from other radfems,so you can’t really blame people for seeing that and understanding it to be a popular TERF take."

Similar to the last point ... views on social media are not representative of a population. Views that you, specifically, are seeing are not representative! If they were, then "well, I see more posts preemptively criticizing people for not including men than I see posts excluding men" (which is true, almost every post I read now-a-days includes caveats like "but men are abused too!! and women can be abusers!!") would have been a valid counter-argument to your ask. But see, I know that my experience on social media is not universal, and I should hope you can acknowledge the same of your own!

Also ... to be fair to all these unnamed "radfems", I'm guessing that you would consider my posts (like this response) to be an example of someone "saying this", which is very much not the case. I am acknowledging social trends and making reasonable generalizations to allow for communication about a complex topic (you know, the way people do for any and every topic ever), but I'm not claiming that no women is ever abusive or that no man has ever been abused. I'm guessing that these other posts are pretty similar (if less verbose).

side note, you also said: "radfems ... are very gender essentialist themselves".

Either you don't know what "gender essentialist" means or the people you are talking to/about are not radfems. I acknowledge that there are a number of people going around and saying they're radfems, but the nice thing about a political group like this is they have (at least some) defined beliefs.

So, for example, if someone went around saying they are a communist, but then when asked to describe their desired economic system, describes an economy based around the free market and decentralized production ... then they aren't a communist no matter what they call themselves. A command economy is a central tenant to communism, so much so that a desire to implement one/have one is intrinsic to being a communist.

In the same way, if someone is calling themselves a radfem, but supports the preservation of gender/gender roles or believes that femininity/masculinity is biologically innate ... then they aren't a radfem.

---

TL;DR:

Violent crimes for women and men are reported at similar rates.

Women and men are punished similarly for violent crimes (i.e., people do take crimes by women seriously).

Children are safer in the company of women than men. There is insufficient research to accurately describe perpetrator demographics of "minor" child abuse/neglect, but there is significant research indicating that men are the perpetrator of the the vast majority of severe injuries, fatal injuries, and sexual abuse.

Men commit the vast majority controlling domestic violence (the type of violence people think of when thinking about domestic violence); women's violence is predominately responsive. Women are also the recipients of the vast majority of injuries (minor and severe) and are the victim of almost all fatalities.

Social media posts are not representative studies.

Critical thinking skills are important!

And, everyone -- regardless of sex or any other demographic characteristic -- deserves compassion when harmed. It is still appropriate talk about trends and create policies that assist the majority of those harmed.

A reminder that I will expect a reasonable degree of engagement with this information if you plan to engage in further discussion! I'll answer the bustle link ask, but after that I'll simply delete asks that don't make a genuine attempt to think critically about this information. (Clarifying questions are okay to ask though :)).

---

References below the cut:

Criminal Victimization, 2022 | Bureau of Justice Statistics. https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/criminal-victimization-2022.

“National Incident-Based Reporting System (NIBRS) Details Reported in the United States .” Federal Bureau of Investigation Crime Data Explorer, https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend.

Myrna S. Raeder Gender and Sentencing: Single Moms, Battered Women, and Other Sex-Based Anomalies in the Gender-Free World of the Federal Sentencing Guidelines, 20 Pepp. L. Rev. Iss. 3 (1993) Available at: https://digitalcommons.pepperdine.edu/plr/vol20/iss3/1

https://web.archive.org/web/20240406064949/https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2019/jan/12/intimate-partner-violence-gender-gap-cyntoia-brown

Child Maltreatment 2022. https://www.acf.hhs.gov/cb/report/child-maltreatment-2022.

“Average Hours per Day Parents Spent Caring for and Helping Household Children as Their Main Activity.” Bureau of Labor Statistics, https://www.bls.gov/charts/american-time-use/activity-by-parent.htm.

Shrider, Emily A., Melissa Kollar, Frances Chen, and Jessica Semega, U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Reports, P60-273, Income and Poverty in the United States: 2020, U.S. Government Publishing Office, Washington, DC, September 2021.

Schnitzer PG, Ewigman BG. Child deaths resulting from inflicted injuries: household risk factors and perpetrator characteristics. Pediatrics. 2005 Nov;116(5):e687-93. doi: 10.1542/peds.2005-0296. PMID: 16263983; PMCID: PMC1360186.

Starling SP, Holden JR, Jenny C. Abusive head trauma: the relationship of perpetrators to their victims. Pediatrics. 1995 Feb;95(2):259-62. PMID: 7838645.

McCartan, K. (Ed.). (2014). Responding to Sexual Offending. Palgrave Macmillan UK. https://doi.org/10.1057/9781137358134

Comparison Between Strategies Used on Prisoners of War and Battered Wives | Office of Justice Programs. https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/comparison-between-strategies-used-prisoners-war-and-battered-wives.

Michael S. Kimmel. (2001). Male Victims of Domestic Violence: A Substantive and Methodological Research Review. The Equality Committee of the Department of Education and Science. https://vawnet.org/material/male-victims-domestic-violence-substantive-and-methodological-research-review

Flood, M. (1999, July 10). Claims About Husband Battering [Contribution to Newspaper, Magazine or Website]. Domestic Violence and Incest Resource Centre Newsletter; Domestic Violence and Incest Resource Centre. https://eprints.qut.edu.au/215068/

Walter DeKeseredy & Martin Schwartz. (1998). Measuring the Extent of Woman Abuse in Intimate Heterosexual Relationships: A Critique of the Conflict Tactics Scales. VAWnet.Org. https://vawnet.org/material/measuring-extent-woman-abuse-intimate-heterosexual-relationships-critique-conflict-tactics

Shamita Das Dasgupta. (2001). Towards an Understanding of Women’s Use of Non-Lethal Violence in Intimate Heterosexual Relationships. VAWnet.Org. https://vawnet.org/material/towards-understanding-womens-use-non-lethal-violence-intimate-heterosexual-relationships

Shamita Das Dasgupta. (2001). Towards an Understanding of Women’s Use of Non-Lethal Violence in Intimate Heterosexual Relationships. VAWnet.Org. https://vawnet.org/material/towards-understanding-womens-use-non-lethal-violence-intimate-heterosexual-relationships

Whitaker, Daniel J., et al. “Differences in Frequency of Violence and Reported Injury Between Relationships With Reciprocal and Nonreciprocal Intimate Partner Violence.” American Journal of Public Health, vol. 97, no. 5, May 2007, pp. 941–47. PubMed Central, https://doi.org/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020.

[insanitysilver]

OK....sooo about the swearing in Ao3. What's considered Mature vs Explicit.

I’ve been chewing on this ask because coarse language is just so subjective. What counts as objectionable will vary between cultures, country-to-country (see US vs UK cursing), region-to-region, and even amongst family and friend groups. The internet leans towards liberal cursing as the norm, but even fandom norms will vary (South Park vs Pokemon).

►What does AO3’s TOS say?

In general… the creator should use their best judgement. “We encourage creators to consider community norms, whether fandom-specific or more general (such as how you'd expect a video game or movie with similar content to be rated), when selecting a rating.”

With that in mind, I can really only give you...

►My Personal Playbook:

» General Audiences -- The content is unlikely to be disturbing to anyone and is suitable for all ages.

G. Something I could read aloud to a 5yo and not get in trouble for. No cursing.

» Teen And Up Audiences --  The content may be inappropriate for audiences under 13.

PG-13. Light cursing. Couple scattered “shits”, “damns”, maybe a “fuck” or two, but sparingly.

» Mature -- The content contains adult themes (sex, violence, etc) that aren't as graphic as explicit-rated content.

R. Heavier cursing. “Fucks” abound + possible light usage of racially/gender-charged terms.

» Explicit -- The content contains explicit adult themes, such as detailed sex scenes, graphic violence, etc.

NC-17. Obscene cursing happening frequently. “Fucks” are swarming. Slurs are coming out of the vents and dripping down the walls.

►Helpful Additional Tags:

T for Language, Rated for [Character]’s Mouth, Canon-Typical Language, Slurs, Canon-Typical Slur Usage,  Homophobic Language, Racist Language, Sexist Language, Derogatory Language, etc.

[theunknownpoetandrewfoster]

I want to take a minute to talk about the books that are in the therapist's office in 'The Gang Gets Analyzed'. Now, I've watched this episode at least ten times, and I never once paid much attention to them, but upon viewing it today, they finally stood out.

The first one that caught my attention was the Child Sexual Abuse book sitting atop the Lesbian Subjects one. I had to pause and rewind, and immediately I couldn't help but think they were referring to Dennis, Charlie and Dee (I've read speculation about her sexuality and it's a definite possibility as we know Glenn stated that all the characters are a little gay).

Let's look a little closer at the other titles - (I can't make out the very first one on the left, no matter how close I zoomed in), but from there we have Soul, Mind, Body, Medicine : A Complete Soul Healing SYSTEM for Optimum Health and Vitality (again, Dennis, anyone?), Psychological Research in Prisons (Mac and his daddy issues?), Power vs. Force (a book that explains how anyone can tap into their inner power to change their lives and the lives of those around them) (Again, this cries Dennis to me), Identity and Anxiety (Mac again), and finally, Listening Perspectives in Psychotherapy, a book that illustrates four distinctly different styles of listening that have emerged in psychoanalysis (Dennis and how he analyzes the other four).

I just found the titles not only interesting, but quite specific to the characters' traits.

Moving on...

Next up, on the top shelf, the first book Medicine Without Menopause felt like a dig at Dee, followed by Adult Children of Alcoholics (Dee, Dennis and Charlie), (And I Can only partially make the next one out) The Handbook of Psychiatric x (I can't make out the part in white but it sounds like something Dennis would've ingested at some point), Sex After Sixty (Frank, no doubt), and lastly Collective Behavior which the very definition of describes the gang to a t - {Excerpt from the book} Collective behavior takes many forms but generally violates societal norms. Collective behavior can be tremendously destructive, as with riots or mob violence, silly, as with fads, or anywhere in between. Collective behavior is always driven by group dynamics, encouraging people to engage in acts they might consider unthinkable under typical social circumstances.

Then we have the other books that are standing - The Human Animal (Charlie and possibly Frank), Adult Bipolar Disorders (Dennis, Mac?), When Life Becomes Precious (a book about taking care of a loved one with a terminal illness i.e. in reference to Charlie's Mom Has Cancer?), Woman Heal Thyself (another dig at Dee), and lastly, How to Live Well on a Shoestring Budget (Frank and Charlie).

This screenshot was taken in the last few minutes of the ep, and look! A new book has been added to the pile - Childhood Socialization. I don't know why I found that one to feel like it was calling out Charlie specifically, but could quite possibly refer to them all as well.

I feel like all of these titles weren't just mere happenstance and that someone picked these out to represent the gang as a whole or individually.

Either way, just thought there were a lot of interesting choices in the mold. Thank you for listening to my ted talk regarding the Gang Gets Analyzed.