#turnus

[luthienne]

Rosanna Warren, from "Turnus" as featured in Gods and Mortals: Modern Poems on Classical Myths

[notacluedo]

Doodle of Camilla and Turnus first meeting (they’re best friends forever)

[firebird04]

Apparently even the ancient Romans had these dreams where you try to run but are seemingly stuck to the spot.

Some things just seem to be universal human experiences.

[pmreaper]

do you ever think about turnus

[trucywright]

The fact that most translations and commentaries I’ve read says that

alius Latio iam partus Achilles, natus et ipse dea

Now/already another Achilles has been born [Latio], and he too is the son of a godess

refers only to Turnus really downgrades the ambiguity in this statement. Because Latio could mean in Latium, in which case it’s Turnus. But it could also mean for/on behalf of Latium. And it’s Aeneas who’s been consistently called the son of a goddess and who will take Achilles’ place at the end when he essentially recreates the Trojan War in Italy. 

This is the ambiguity of prophecy where it refers to two people at once. It’s not just Turnus because, in the end, Turnus isn’t the inheritor of Achilles. Aeneas is.

[reaper-art]

So saying, she flung a burning branch at the youth, and planted the brand, smoking with murky light, in his chest.

[lastwave]

ive gotta know. what are your turnus opinions

HE MAKES ME SO SAAAAD DUDE. direct parallel to aeneas in an unwilling executor of the gods wills. aeneas showed up and as far as turnus is aware, ruined his life. i dont think he wore pallas's belt as a trophy, he wore it to remind himself to stay human. but aeneas was so jaded at that point he couldn't see that at All.

[ulteriusnetendeodiis]

thinking, as always, about turnus and amata's relationship.

turnus' mother was a nymph, as was his sister. we can assume that they were off doing their nymph thing and weren't exactly present figures in turnus' life (i have my own thoughts about juturna and turnus' relationship as well but that's another post).

meanwhile, amata did have a son at one point, but one who died probably in infancy. i don't bring this up to devalue the relationship amata surely has with her daughter, lavinia, but i think it's important to note that amata at one point expected to be the mother to a son.

so you have turnus without a mother figure, and then you have amata without a son. and once turnus starts visiting latium on account of the marriage proposal, i really think that amata would start seeing turnus as a son she never got to have and turnus would love the maternal affection she offers.

i also feel like this contextualizes amata's suicide- not only is she convinced of aeneas' victory, but she's also lost a son for the second time. thats a horrible grief to have, one that opens old wounds as well as ripping open new ones. and on turnus' side, when he hears about amata's death, he goes to the duel he knows he'll lose.

idk. i just feel like turnus and amata genuinely loved each other as family beyond just "hello there son-in-law." there's so much implied in the few words relating between the two of them and it makes me feel ill in the best possible way

[dijeh]

Virgil, Aeneid

trans. Stanley Lombardo

[stephenbland]

[yellowmanula]

WIERSZE W MIEŚCIE 2024 | Janicki | DJ Yellow Manula | Jamal | performance

[luthienne]

Rosanna Warren, from "Turnus" as featured in Gods and Mortals: Modern Poems on Classical Myths

[Text ID: when your knees buckle and you look back]

[notacluedo]

Fortune favours the bold amirite

[fieriframes]

[And the cheek is just delicate, falls apart, you taste the flavor, the veggies are fresh. Turnus accepts the divine call to arms with such regard for the end result. Outstanding. Great job. I appreciate that.]

[pmreaper]

This is so Juturna and Turnus coded. they were siblings!!!!!! they were siblings!!!!!!!!!

[classicschronicles]

Hi lovelies,

Okay so my first A-level is on Tuesday and it is the World of the Hero paper, basically the Iliad and the Aeneid. I was getting on with my Aeneid revision when I realised that, other than the fact that I am in love with him, I actually don’t know that much about Turnus. So today I’m going to try and write about Turnus in the hopes that it forces me to go and read up on him. (Also I need to revise my Homeric allusion and the comparisons between the Greek and Roman hero so imma throw that in too).

Okay so to start off with some basic info, Turnus is the Prince of the Rutilian Tribe and the leader of the antagonistic forces against the Trojans. Like all main heroes, he is a great warrior and superior to everyone else in combat. Now despite all of this, it is important to note that Turnus doesn’t actually want to fight. Let me explain.

Turnus is engaged to Lavinia, the princess of Latium, a neighbouring Italian tribe. Aeneas arrives and to cut a long story short her dad changes his mind and says “nah you’re gonna marry Aeneas instead”. Also random but Turnus is also meant to be the best looking of all the Italians, so smash ig. But anyways, when Aeneas steals his fiancé, Turnus doesn’t really care, he lets him have her and makes his peace with it because he knows there is nothing he can do against fate. However, surprise surprise, enter Juno. She’s all like “nawh come on I need someone to fight the Trojans bc I hate peace”, so she sends the Fury Alecto to infect Turnus with a lust for war. So anyways, he wakes up the next day and he’s like “hey that’s my fiancé” and proceeds to start the second Trojan war to win her back. If this sounds oddly familiar, it should.

The purpose of Turnus’ character in the second half of the Aeneid is very similar to Dido’s character in the first half. Like Dido, is an individual who has been corrupted by the gods- more specially Juno- and lacks any autonomy. Therefore, he follows what he thinks is his will to the point of excess. Much like Dido’s furor for lust, Turnus’ furor is militant. It is Turnus who then goes on to raise the flag of war and instigate chaos. When Alecto burns him with a desire for war he begins to exhibit multiple character flaws, such as disorder. His individualism is diametrically opposed to Aeneas who is dutiful and embodies pietas, supposedly.

Book 9 is truly the point where we get a sense of just how deep Alecto’s influence on Turnus is, as he becomes depraved and thirsty for blood. Any sense of the moral compass he demonstrated in book 7 is gone as he flaunts the death of his Trojan enemies by raising their heads on spears for all the Trojans to see. Aeneas, by the way, is missing for all of book 9 so Turnus has no equal and therefore becomes the most deadly man in the war. As soon as Turnus learns of Aeneas’ absence he leads his army towards the Trojan camp and when he can’t find a way in, he sets fire to their ships (the ships are immortal or some shit tho so they’re fine). Night then descends, and the Latins attack the Trojan fortresses. Turnus then sees a high tower standing just outside the main gate which he sets on fire and then they get in and kill a bunch of Trojans. The Trojans then chase the Latins away but when they seal the gates they accidentally lock Turnus inside with them. A Trojan is then like “you can’t win in the camp of your enemies”. To which Turnus then says this really arrogantly hot thing, ssshhhh I know he’s red flag but it’s like one of my favourite colours. Virgil writes, “Turnus replied, smiling calmly: ‘If there is any courage in you, then come and fight. You will soon be able to tell Priam that here too you found an Achilles!’”. Eventually he does realise that he is outnumbered and he escaped.

In book 10, Turnus carries on with his slaughter spree. Turnus spots Aeneas’ returning ships and leads his troops towards the beach so that he can confront them, battle commences. Pallas fights a little too well and attracts the attention of Turnus. Turnus challenges Pallas to a duel and Pallas, desperate to prove himself, agrees. There’s this really funny bit where he’s fighting Turnus but stops to ogle him (“Pallas marvelled at these proud commands and stood amazed at the sight of Turnus, running his eyes all over that mighty body,”- me too bro). There is then this great Homeric smilie about Turnus as a lion and Pallas a bull. Turnus kills Pallas and steals his sword belt, which is actually Aenas, as a prize. The stealing of the sword belt is the action that later seals his death. Again, if this is sounding a little familiar, it should. Aeneas hears about what Turnus has done and goes berserk, but Juno asks that Jupiter spare Turnus (he can’t do this but he does agree to prolong his life a little). Anyways, Juno created a phantom Aeneas and so Turnus goes chasing after it and follows it onto some ships which then set sail and send him away from Aeneas. This is that classic argument of are the gods self seeking? In this instance yes, Juno humiliates Turnus by making his follow a phantom Aeneas so that when he escapes he looks like a coward. She protects his physically, yes, but his honour is shot to pieces. Also she doesn’t actually care for Turnus, she just cares that he can keep fighting the Trojans.

So then book 11 rolls around. Messengers arrive from the Latin camp and ask for a 12 says truce so that both sides and can bury their dead. The Latins all think that Turnus should fight for Lavinia in single combat against Aeneas rather than risk any more deaths. A man called Drances blames the whole war on Turnus arrogance, at which point I wanna point out that Turnus is a baby girl and that non of this is his fault, but actually Juno and Alecto’s. Turnus, however, says that if the Latins want single combat then he will fight Aenas without fear. The way he says this, though, is very sarcastic and arrogant and exemplified how reckless he can be. But at this point, Trojans start marching towards the city so the Latins have to fight again.

Now the dreaded book 12. Turnus decides that he has to fight Aeneas in single combat, and when urged to surrender by Lavinia’s father he declines (again sound familiar?). Juno worries about Turnus because she thinks Aeneas might outmatch him and so she calls Juturna (Turnus’ divine sister) to watch out for her brothers safety. Juturna, however, doesn’t want her brother to fight in the duel and so she disguises herself as a Latin officer in order to break the truce and start all out war. Some stuff happens, Aeneas gets shot in the leg and has to leave and it gives Turnus some renewed hope. Aeneas returns to battle and both he and Turnus kill a lot of men. Turnus then hears cries of suffering from his fellow Italians and calls for the Trojan siege of Latium to end, and for the duel to commence. Okay so quick play by play, Aeneas and Turnus toss sears, Turnus sword breaks at the hilt, Turnus runs from Aeneas, Juturna gives him a real sword. Aeneas then casts a spear which hits Turnus in the leg and Turnus tumbles to the ground. He begs Aeneas for mercy in the name of his father. Aeneas is prepared to show mercy, but remember that sword belt I mentioned earlier. Well Aeneas sees the sword belt and then goes batshit insane and kills Turnus on his knees whilst he begs for mercy.

Okay so now some quick analysis, because apparently I have to be able to do that. The characterisation of Turnus is interesting in that is mirrors Dido. We as readers admire both leaders in the few pages that we see them before they are plagued by the gods. The branding of Turnus with lust for war strips his of any autonomy and from that point in book 7 onwards he looses any semblance of his own characteristics. He goes from being clement and diplomatic to being bloodthirsty and arrogant. And yet, the reader is never truly able to hate him. Much like Dido, we may tire of him sometimes but we always keep a trace of admiration and at times, awe or pity. For example, whilst me may not agree with his actions in the Trojan camp, one cannot deny that they were impressive. But the relief one usually feels when reading about the death of Turnus was not present in Turnus’ death. At that moment in time we feel sorrow for him and admiration that, despite knowing he would not win, he still fought Aeneas. There is one suggestion that Turnus is the anti-hero. The villain we cannot hate, and often find ourselves liking more than the actual hero. That is certainly true for Turnus as there are times that the reader cannot stand Aeneas, for example his human sacrifice and murder of Mezentius in book 10.

The other thing that is really interesting about Turnus is trying to decipher the Homeric allusions that Virgil was trying to demonstrate. Every time I say ‘sounds familiar’ it’s because it is Virgil’s way of making throwbacks to the Iliad. So for example, Turnus (Hector) taking Pallas (Patroclus) sword belt/ armour that belonged to Aeneas (Achilles). But the thing that I find really interesting is the way that Virgil does it. When we read the Iliad, sure there are times when he winds us up, but we don’t hate Achilles at any point. We understand his rampage against the Trojans, we understand (although we might not agree with it) why he did what he did to Hector. But when it comes to Aeneas, do we really even find him that likeable? To be honest, I don’t think so, although your opinion might be different. But a lot of the reason I think for my point of view is because of the characterisation of both Pallas and Turnus as parallels of Patroclus and Hector respectively. What I mean by that is when we read about the death of Pallas it is not nearly as emotional as the death of Patroclus. We see the relationship between Achilles and Patroclus, even in death, we spend 16 books of the epic getting to know Patroclus. Whereas, when it comes to Pallas, we know him for about 2 books before he is killed. His character is not developed in the same way. And that’s not to say that Virgil isn’t capable of creating the same level of sorrow, I mean think of the deaths of Nisus and Euryalus who were mentioned all of twice. In all honesty, I think Virgil did this deliberately.

Then there is the question of Turnus and Hector. We feel an immense amount of sympathy for both, but even still we understand Achilles actions far more than Aeneas. Hector stripped Patroclus of his armour, tried to keep the body for the Trojans, flaunts the armour of Achilles, and he does this all of his won accord, not because he is being used by the gods. Turnus, on the other hand, whilst he does take a prize, he doesn’t strip Pallas bare, he simply takes a sword belt. Turnus returns the body to Pallas’ father, he allows 12 days for burial, and on top of that, non of this was of his own will.

I think ultimately, a lot of it comes down to the characterisation of Greek and Roman heroes. Where a Greek hero fights for personal fame and glory and honour, the Roman hero is not as equally motivated by the spoils of war, but rather pietas (duty to the gods, family, and country). And therefore, when Turnus fights we see him as fighting for his people and giving life for his people (roman word- devotio).

Basically, Turnus big slay I love him and icl it is too late for me to say anything more intelligent than that. If you’re still here I hope you learned something new or at least enjoyed my ramblings. Hope you all have a lovely rest of your weekend <3

~Z