#tsod spoilers

[threeimagineryboys]

I've seen some people online saying how shipping Grindeldore is gross due to what Gellert stands for.

I think that's exactly why Grindeldore is such an interesting ship.

We know Dumbledore as this loving and protective character; the greatest wizard of all time. Even the bloody qilin bowed for him.

And yet even he still loves this twisted dark wizard.

We need to know more about Grindelwalds background. I love how Mads said that he believes something bad happened to his family which is why he's carrying this hate around and spreading it.

There has to be more to the story and I NEED IT NOW!!!!

[tearblossom]

As we all know, the aspect of their relationship that’s the most beautiful yet simultaneously the most tragic is how they never fell out of love. Even after everything that happened and all of their years apart, the intensity of that love never dimmed. Both of them only ever loved one man in the entirety of their lifetimes.. each other. I’ve heard it said that the breaking of the blood pact “changed everything” and that “nothing will ever be the same again” between them. 

It’s so ironic because the breaking of the pact did, in a way, “change everything” but in the cruelest way given the circumstances and not in the way that one might think upon seeing a couple “getting divorced.” In my opinion, it only made them love each other more, which tragically only made things that much more difficult for them. And at the same time, it changed nothing. They still can’t bring themselves to kill one other, pact or no pact. In their hearts, there was no “divorce” and never will be.

Albus had an expression of sheer panic when Gellert tried to kiss him and it wasn’t because he was turned off by how evil Gellert was or because he thought him undeserving of his love. It was because he would have kissed him back. He would have comforted the man he loves. He had to remove himself from the situation entirely and he had to do it fast lest he falter in his resolve. As others have pointed out, he did what was right, not what was easy. 

[hannahtheshipper]

*the internal duel scene ends*

Gellert: *internally* shit, this bitch has the audacity to divorce me AND walk away? No fucking way! Say something, say something, make him stop!

Gellert: *aloud* Who will love you now?

Gellert: Shit this didn’t go as planned

[dumbledore-and-grindelwald]

The Secrets of Dumbledore  had some great moments during which Dumbledore’s subtle arrogance, his tendency to focus on the greater good first and to manipulate in its service, and overall the fact that he is chaotic good, shined through.

-When Grindelwald asks Dumbledore how the blood troth feels around his neck, Albus leans in, softens his expression and tells him “we can free each other” with a casual smile on his face. Gellert looks like he’s been slapped.

-When he meets Theseus and Newt: Albus: Has Newt told you why you’re here. Theseus: Was he meant to? Albus: *sassily laughing his ass off* No. As a matter of fact.

-The way he uses his gloves and the cheeky manner in which he takes out the documents Newt needs to get to Theseus.

-Albus: *calls the Erkstag the German ministry’s little bed and breakfast* The prisoners are left to spend their nights and to be eaten.

-Albus: Professor Hicks… assuming you’re not otherwise engaged… *sassily* frankly, even if you are…

-When Newt asks about the case, one of the most important things in his life, Albus casually tells him that it’s in good hands and leaves without any other explanation, while Newt has a lost expression and his hand is still clenched as if he’s holding the case.

-When the gang is at Hogwarts Albus starts by congratulating them and when Theseus is surprised he mentions Newt, Jacob and Lally’s contribution. Then: Albus: And you are alive… and you ‘re well. […] Theseus:  Albus, forgive me, but aren’t we right back where we started? Albus: Actually I would argue that things are…*seemingly thinks of a way to argue in favor of the plan* a great deal worse.

-*Newt says something correct* Albus: Three points to Hufflepuff.

-Albus: Aberforth here will prepare you a delicious dinner; his own recipe. Aberforth: *internally screaming*

-When Newt cannot recognize his case on sight: Albus: Good, I’d be worried if you could *chuckles*.

-Albus: If by teatime the Qilin, not to mention all of us are still alive, we should consider our efforts a success.  Jacob: For the record, no one ever died playing Three-Card Monte.  Albus: An important distinction.

-When the gang is in the room of requirement, Bunty was there before the others entered and the real case was the closest one to her. When Jacob picks a case, he chooses the one in front of Newt but Dumbledore directs him to choose another. Newt notices and is fixed on THAT case thinking that it’s his own. This was such a classic case of Dumbledore’s casual manipulation.

-Albus cares about Credence, but he accepts fast that he cannot save him and he also can’t help seeing that he may be useful in helping against Grindelwald. While he is fast to instinctively use a counterspell when Grindelwald attacks, when Aberforth tried to approach earlier Albus held him back because Grindelwald being publically confronted by someone who was close to him is their best chance. This is a noticeable instance of Albus’ first instinct being to look at the bigger picture and make a choise that is risky but seems to be the one with the best possible outcome.

[heartoftheserpent]

After watching The Secrets of Dumbledore I really understand why Dumbledore is just always so disappointed in Voldemort

like he hasn’t faced anyone for decades, finally he’s facing someone who’s both so powerful he doesn’t need to hold back and so vile he gets to fully cut loose, and Voldemort is just constantly using human shields and flying around refusing to face him

Albus FINALLY has someone he can fight and use his true power against, someone it’s RIGHT to fight, he can cut loose like his husband who is in prison for fully being a supervillain, this is finally his “aren’t you tired of being nice? don’t you just want to go apeshit?” moment

and Voldemort never even has the guts to FACE him instead of constantly running away and setting up weird traps and riddles and murdering innocents, this is WAY less fun than fighting his ex

i’d be so mad lmao

[raccoonrabbit]

Huh.

So the secrets was that BOTH dumbledore brothers boned...

[ohthetasteofhoney]

[apoembymiria]

I wish thinking about... oh, we were closer that brothers... we can free each other... what you’re doing is madness... it’s what you said we’d do... committed to me, to us... because i was in love with you... with or without your help, id burn down their world, albus... love, arrogance, naive, pick your poison... we were young, we were gonna transform the world... who will love you now, dumbledore?... you are all alone... can help me pass my finals

[sweetbutdevil]

TSOD

Here's the thing, I've already seen TSOD about three times and I wanted to make some comments about grindeldore bcs I love them. -Cafeteria scene: boyyyyy everyone looking for the dark magician of the moment and he simply... meets him to drink... tea (that's love, bitches). How nervous Dumbeldore was to see him (I'm expecting someone). As soon as Grindelwald appears we can observe an increase in Dumbeldore's blinks (which usually indicates that your brain is processing too many emotions at once), the smiles, the TENSION in the environment

BECAUSE I WAS IN LOVE WITH YOU (as far as this is concerned, the use of "was"), does that mean not anymore? Is it because he talks about the past? In my opinion Grindelwald was the only love of his life, since, in the rest of the saga we can see that Dumbeldore does not fall in love with anyone else.

The number of times Dumbledore uses "Gellert and I" or takes advantage of any moment or conversation to highlight the fact of how in love he is with him (just the fucking fact that he A LOT of times (even then) refers to him as "Gellert" (just melts my heart)

-The battle: one of the scenes with more tension and sadness of the entire movie. Knowing that you have to fight with the love of your life because the magical world is what it expects of you... omfg I just want to cry. The moment of "hands on the chest", the sound of their hearts, all the time around them stops, it's just the two of them looking into each other's eyes, noticing the other's heartbeat, what would each one think?they separate (we can see how Grindelwald takes a step forward) why? The safest thing is that deep down, as we all know Grindelwald has always had that manipulative part, he knows that he is in control of the relationship, Albus was simply "blinded" by love and the power and ideas of Grindelwald, BUT, Albus separates, doesn't let him invade his personal space and... without Grindelwald expecting it, Dumbeldore simply... turns around and turns his back on him (Grindelwald has just been rejected by Albus), you can see the change of expression on his face, the desperation of being rejected, by someone who for him, he would think would never say no. In the face of the overwhelm, he shouts almost desperately: Who will love you now, Dumbeldore? , knowing that, there will be no one who will be able to love. And to his surprise... he simply tells him that he is alone.

After finishing the battle we can see how Grindelwald "throws back" off the cliff. People look out to see what happened and... we can see the desperation on Albus's face (thinking if he got hurt in the fall?), he will always care about Gellert no matter what. -The fact that he collects the remaining pieces of the pact and despite everything he continues to keep them (and he kept the rest of the years, I will talk about this later)

--Wedding scene: OMFG, yes, the cafeteria scene and the fight killed me inside but WTF, "grindeldore" goes through a "divorce period" and they make poor Albus attend a wedding??? omg my poor boy Everyone is happy, everyone is reconciled, the "accepted" standards of love are those that survive, those that have happiness but, what about them? It's just not what "is well seen" for which, no it will have a happy ending :( And already , in the scene in which Albus looks into the cafeteria , he smiles for those who are happy , for love , for happiness ( because as we know Albus is one of the characters that defends love throughout the saga , even to Harry he explains several times that, above all, the most important thing is love), when HE is the only person he has not been able to love (I am broken inside) -Already at the end of the saga, when Albus dies, we can observe several things: Grindelwald tried to prevent Voldemort from going to Dumbeldore's grave and one of the things that he now understood and that hurts me the most: we can observe that a phoenix arrives later at Grindelwald's cell with something shiny around his neck (IT WAS THEM, IT WAS THE BLOOD PACT) simply together until eternity, because love, if it doesn't survive in life, will survive in death.

[sweetiebriar]

'A son cruelly banished

Despair of the daughter

Return, great avenger

With wings from the water.'

Tycho Dodonus, Prophecy 20.

TSOD SPOILER.

I’ve just been re-reading the Crimes of Grindelwald screenplay, and suddenly wondered: We know the prophecy was proven not to be about the Lestrange family, but could it still be related to the Dumbledore family somehow?

It’s very raw thinking, but hear me out:

A son cruelly banished - could still refer to Credence/Aurelius Dumbledore. As Aberforth’s lover was discovered to be pregnant, she was sent away, forcibly separated from Abe, and their newborn son boarded with (probably) family members on a ship for America. Moreover, in Secrets of Dumbledore, Gellert also convinced Aurelius that he had been banished by his family, that his brothers rejected him, and that his parents Kendra & Percival didn’t want him.

Despair of the daughter - This one is tricky, but as with any prophecies it needs to be interpreted. I believe the daughter here refers to Ariana and her despair to the Obscurus. Something that both Ariana and Credence/Aurelius share. Despair also in the sense of the Dumbledores already suffered such tragedy before through Ariana (whose Aberforth was very close), and must suffer it again through Aurelius, Abe’s own son. It’s a double pain, a punishment. As if the family was cursed by fate itself.

Return, great avenger - During Secrets of Dumbledore, Credence/Aurelius believed to be the forgotten son, the banished "brother". He left Nurmengard when learning that Albus was in Berlin. He followed him in the streets and waited for him to be alone before attacking. He sought revenge, he sought answers. He returns to his "brother" to avenge his abandonment.

With wings from the water - Let’s start with the last part which is the easiest to link. The ship sunk, filled with water, and Credence (then thought to be Corvus) is miraculously saved. He has risen from the water, reborn like a phoenix from its ashes. And then come the first part: The wings of a Phoenix. The Dumbledores' emblem. The family pet. Fawkes who has followed Aurelius since Crimes of Grindelwald. Who was there to watch over him in his agony in Secrets of Dumbledore, protecting him at the end of his duel with Albus, comforting him in Nurmengard when he was receiving the messages of his father (who he didn't know was his father at this time) on the mirror.

Well, that’s simply theories on my part and it might just completely be rubbish. But at the same time, prophecies have such important meaning in HP, and always have proven to be true (thinking especially about Trelawney here). So I don’t think this one would have been thrown into the narrative only to be denied later once Leta’s whole plot was uncovered. Then again, this could still refer to the Dumbledores, but can be interpreted differently from what I did. If you want to take a guess, please be my guest.

[threeimagineryboys]

The reason why I believe that Dumbledore will go rogue in the next film:

People have kept on asking for him to fight and stop Grindelwald.

He has promised to stop him, but fight him? No.

They are yet to realise, something that I believe Albus himself realised at the end of Fantastic Beasts The Secrets of Dumbledore.

The blood pact wasn’t the only reason why he couldn’t move against him. His love for him is eternal. He sees his image staring back at him from the mirror of erised.

Grindelwald is his hearts deepest, most desperate desire.

[hannahtheshipper]

Another thing I noticed while rewatching TSoD is Minerva calling Grindelwad “Gellert” while talking to Albus. I mean, supportive sis clearly knows things. I’m here for at least a little bit of expanding their friendship. She’s just so supportive and caring for Albus while delivering the message about vindicating Grindelwald’s crimes. Same thing in TCoG’s when she’s speaking with Albus in the “It was all very mundane, I’m fine” iconic scene.

[dumbledore-and-grindelwald]

What did you interpret the line who will love you now Dumbledore to mean? Was it grindelwald telling him that he was no longer in love with him and nobody else would/could love him?

Nope.

At this point Albus has started walking away. Gellert's expression is actually hurt and he even takes a step back and steadies himself, if I recall.

I think that:

He did not mean that he doesn't love him, but that Dumbledore won't HAVE a person who loves him. In the beginning of the movie Grindelwald is absolutely absorbed by seeing Dumbledore after so much time UNTIL Dumbledore mentions that they could free one another from the bond. At that point he looks hurt and then he retaliates. Throughout the movie I got the sense that Grindelwald, liking the ensurance that Dumbledore can't move against him while the bond is in place aside, views the bond as a last point of connection that exists even if Albus has shut every other door.

I think that his comment is an unhealthy way of him showing his pain and his way of saying that Dumbledore just completely shut out the one person that really loves him. Funnily enough, it's even more tragic because thereafter Albus never had a person that loved him as much as Grindelwald did, which is quite tragic and poetic.

Another thing: Even after that line, he says something along the lines of 'I was never your enemy, not then or now'. He says it to a crowd but he has turned to Albus and they have locked eyes with each other. If he thought, even in his anger, that he didn't love Albus, he wouldn't have said this.

[heartoftheserpent]

Being obsessed with “blood purity” makes no sense for Grindelwald, a gentle rant

The only thing I truly object to in The Secrets of Dumbledore is the idea that Grindelwald cared about magical blood purity.

That’s just literally not part of my canon.

It doesn’t make any sense, it genuinely doesn’t fit with his ideology that magical people are born with the “gift” of power and that gives them the right to rule.

This is what I mean when I say that the FB movies are fanfiction, As far as I’m concerned that’s just part of the in-universe propaganda machine we know is working against him. This isn’t me being #Grindelwaldwasright, I just genuinely think it was in there to try and make him More Obviously Evil, because that’s a kind of magical racism we can easily understand.

And frankly, I think it came about in the movie!verse because when they wrote and filmed CoG initially, a lot of the actors/test audiences found themselves thinking that Grindelwald had a point, he was understandable, he was too sympathetic. So they had to put in way more signposts that he was Obviously Evil.

I want to see a Grindelwald where they actually ask the really hard questions, where they don’t make him kill baby animals and have his followers kill toddlers just to show the audience that He’s A Bad Guy.

My conception of it (I stole some of this from troth) is that his ideology was directly in reaction to a lot of stuff that was going on in the late 1800s - industrialization, the dwindling of wizarding villages, the way that wizards were essentially being driven farther and farther underground. Of course this would have appealed to Albus - his sister was irrevocably hurt, and his father died in prison, because of the Statute of Secrecy. Muggle boys hurt her terribly, and his father couldn’t even go to the authorities for justice because Ariana posed a threat to the Statute of Secrecy.

The vibe is very much that wizards are not safe, and industrial sprawl keeps increasing. It means more and more safe enclaves for wizards are disappearing. Now, it’s understandable that Gellert’s reaction is, “Okay, then we should be in charge so we don’t get smushed out of existence,” but obviously, this becomes intensely complicated by the fact that he sees Muggles as significantly Lesser than wizards. At best, he would see them like children who needed to be guided and helped into making better decisions. At the worst, he would see them as beasts of burden, entirely unable to fend for themselves and useless except as a wizard sees fit to use them.

This is why my conception of his ideology includes the idea that it was very easy for him to reach out to wizards who feel like they, too, are being legislated and oppressed out of existence - those with Creature blood, poor wizards, landless wizards, queer wizards, Muggleborn wizards, etc. That’s why he was able to gain so much traction for so long - not because he hoodwinked everyone, but because he was very very good at saying, “This isn’t your fault. It won’t always be like this. We can burn the whole system down, and you won’t be the one who’s hurt anymore.”

I just think the movies are afraid of making him look too sympathetic, so they’re giving him easy signposts of Villainy instead of trusting fans to engage with complicated methodology. And I’m not even saying they’re wrong, after some simplistic takes I’ve seen on this hellsite.

But yeah my conception of Grindelwald doesn’t give a shit about blood purity because it doesn’t make any sense for him, thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[raccoonrabbit]

Secrets of Dumbledore spoiler review

Oh dear me. Where to start.

This movie was so much more interesting than i anticipated.

It started and the whole room (which was almost at full capacity!) went silent. The restaurant scene - everyone held their breath in. I could feel the tension all around, it was such a good start. And it kept going and i was just swept away...

Not one moment where i felt bored, quite the contrary, i felt captivated thourgh it all. The political thriller subplot was absolutely chilling!!!

And fuck me if i didnt fell in love with Mikkelsens Grindelwald <3 Honestly im really tempted to watch it again with the original english, instead of the hungarian dub, just to experience the voice acting as it should be.

And the JOKES? I havent watched cinema in years that had such good humour??? There was like 4 four times where the entire room laughed out loud, it was such a pleasure.

And okay i could rant about a few creative decisions that could have been changed to make it more complex, all plot-wise, but i feel like this movie is just not about the plot, strictly speaking? It was about characters, and feelings and had so much heart and soul <3 it really didnt need another half an hour explaining minor details, it would have broken the illusion.

And lastly, grindeldore. THE love story. They handled it so, so, soooo well. That very last battle with the heartbeats. I never experienced cinema quite like this before, this... emotional intensity. The angst, and the love, all present in one small sequence. Truly magical.

Yeah i really could talk about this for hours.

12/10 movie. Go watch it <3<3<3

[grindelwald-alliance]

SoD photo spoiler!