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crimsonhydrangeavn · 3 months ago

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I really love the game demo so far. I’ve watched day 1 and 2 of the demo played by a Let’s Player I follow. The writing is beautiful and I very much like Garret.

That being said, why is the “bad” and “toxic” character the only nonbinary one? I’m nonbinary and use they/them pronouns exclusively myself, so it’s a bit painful to see the toxic ex character be the only one that’s the same gender as me, and I’m sure to other nonbinary people like me.

Can you tell me the reasoning behind making Teagan nonbinary? Or why there aren’t any redeemable characters that are nonbinary? I understand it’s just fiction, but also nonbinary people don’t really get a lot of representation in fiction especially not in dating sims.

Thank you to much for reaching out and letting me know how you found out about Crimson Hydrangea VN and how much you've enjoyed the game and Garret so far! I'm assuming the Let's Player you're referring to is Espoir Du Vide since she's the only one who I've seen make a video about CHVN. I've been following her for a little while and I'm fan of hers as well. She has a wonderful soothing voice and her jokes/memes really make me laugh!

I also want to thank you for feeling comfortable enough to send me such a sensitive and completely legitimate concern. Thank you for phrasing it in such a respectful and straightforward manner. I'm always open to all forms of feedback and am always open to learning and hearing others out.

That being said, I completely hear your concerns and I can understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately Teagan hasn't had a lot of screen time compared to others in the game (Only really showing up in Day 2). And the limited screen time that they have had hasn't really shown them in the best light.

Of course, I'll go into more depth as to why that is down below just in case people don't want to risk being spoiled.

I also summarized what I wrote below for those who don't want to risk seeing spoilers but want to know the main points of what I said.

Teagan isn't inherently bad and they are redeemable.

While their gender expression is an important part of them and their backstory, their gender isn't and should never be considered a factor as to why they're toxic.

They're toxic because of their actions, not because of who they are as a person or what they identify as.

I also apologize that Teagan's current perception is painful for you and others. That was never my intention and I'm genuinely sorry it's come across that way.

!POTENTIAL SPOILERS BELOW!

Teagan's current perception is completely overshadowed by the fact that they're your ex and you had a terrible dramatic break up. The game currently doesn't go into the decade or so of history you two have. All the sweet and meaningful moments between the two of you, how utterly devoted they were to you, how they supported you through difficult times and vice versa.

Unfortunately you're seeing them through the eyes of an ex who is still processing a rough break up and suppressing/ actively ignoring all of the positive traits they originally fell in love with.

That being said, I will say that Teagan has to be one of the most complex characters I've written. Yes, they are flawed but that doesn't mean they are inherently "bad". Their negative actions are currently overshadowing their positive traits. Teagan does have the capability to grow and learn and improve themselves, if you decide to go down that route in the game.

There were several reasons why I made Teagan nonbinary, and I can assure you that none of them were malicious or ill intended.

I don't necessarily want to go into all of the reasons as to why I made them nonbinary since I feel as though it'll spoil a few key elements about their backstory that I plan on revealing in game.

Instead I'll focus on one of the main reasons you actually mentioned in your ask, Representation.

For me, representation doesn't mean that they need to always be painted in the best light. Yes, they shouldn't be painted in a stereotypical or hateful way, but I also don't think they should be shown as perfect and flawless.

You see, I personally adore character development. A complex and flawed character who learns and grows from the people and situations around them to become a "better person" is my favorite kind of character arc.

What better way to honor Teagan than to show their journey of character growth during Crimson Hydrangea? Or at least that's what my thought process is/was.

I also wanted to mention that Teagan and Garret were created to be foils of each other. Yes, they're both yanderes, but they're still completely different kinds of people.

Garret comes off as very sweet and charming because you're only seeing him on a surface level. That perfect version of Garret is a facade he wears for you and others. There's a deep rooted darkness to him that you'll see in later days and you'll discover just how horribly toxic he is/can become. (Perhaps even more so than Teagan...)

Teagan on the other hand, has already shown you their toxicity. It's all come to light because of the break up and there's no hiding from it. You know them better than anyone else and that has it's pros and cons. Depending on the route you choose, they can either dig their heels in and become the worst version of themselves, or they can finally face reality and take accountability for their actions and start to heal as a person ( and potentially as a partner if you so choose.)

I hope my in depth explanation has helped you understand where I'm coming from and see that there was no intended slight meant towards those who identify as nonbinary.

With all of that being said, I will apologize that Teagan's current perception is painful for you and others. That was never my intention and I'm genuinely sorry it's come across that way.

#yandere #original character #yandere visual novel #yandere vn #male yandere #ask #crimson hydrangea #visual novel #yanderes #crimson hydrangea vn #teagan conners #garret belmont

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fardf150 · 3 years ago

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hey jsyk, a relationship doesn't have to have malicious or harmful intentions behind it in order to be toxic.

sometimes two good people just don't fit well together. sometimes two good people accidentally hurt each other. sometimes two good people just aren't the best at communicating.

sometimes you can't fix it, and that's okay. sometimes it was never going to work out. it hurts sometimes, especially when you genuinely love each other but sometimes you're just better off separate.

this isn't exclusively true for romantic relationships, btw. it can happen between anyone, for any reason.

#abuse mention #toxic relationships #mental wellness

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caden · 6 years ago

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i feel we should examine the whole idea of “do spoilers matter” or not at a deeper level then ‘people who complain about spoilers are annoying so spoiler warnings are stupid’. like the idea that a lot of you guys seem to have of “if having the plot spoiled ruins the movie for you then the plot wasnt any good anyways” seems sort of... not fully wrong but also underdeveloped to me. like, there are tons and tons and tons of stories that are widely considered to be amazing and have clear artistic merit that you absolutely wouldn’t want spoiled. Like, you wouldnt want to know darth vader was lukes father. you wouldnt want to know bruce willis was a ghost the whole time. For drama to be effective you need tension, and a very very efficient way of keeping the audience engaged is by putting them in a mindset where they’re unsure of what will happen next, or by revealing a game-changing plot twist, or by suddenly putting a character into an unexpected position. It seems totally disingenuous to me to be like ‘well it shouldnt matter to the audience whether or not they get to be surprised by what happens in the film they’re watching’. You can’t honestly believe that to be true. Being able to be surprised by a story is like one of the fundamental draws of good storytelling and probably has been for all of human history. Imagine how much worse US or Get Out or any Shakespeare play would be if you knew exactly where the plot would go before you saw it. I know there’s some research that suggests people actually enjoy stuff more if they already know what will happen but you can cast a lot of doubt on that data-- i think that it indicates more that people are more likely to appreciate a good plot once they understand it more thoroughly, hence why you might like a great movie more the second time you watch it. That doesnt mean there isnt value in the first time, it’s just a different way of viewing it.

All that said, the stuff with people not wanting spoilers for endgame has different wrinkles to it. (dont worry im not about to spoil anything). It can’t all be chalked up to ‘people care super deeply about the characters and plot and the writing is always so unpredictable and engaging that they dont want to know a single thing before going in’. Ive spent a lot of time recently thinking about the way infinity war and endgame are constructed, and they’re made in such a way that REALLY facilitates them being ‘spoiled’. because they’re written around moments. The plot isn’t so much a naturally moving thing with motivations and momentum of its own as much as a connective tissue between various cool things happening. Like, whoa, spider-man just met the guardians of the galaxy. oh sick, theyre in wakanda. holy shit, half of them died. Endgame goes REAAAAAALLY hard on this style of writing. And as a method of milking emotion from the audience, it really really works. Assuming the moments themselves are all effective, you’re guaranteeing constant engagement because every three minutes another epic thing is gonna happen. And I think when people fault marvel fans for being obsessed with spoiler warnings, this style of filmmaking is really what they’re trying to critique. because there’s a suggestion that if your movie is just jumping from crazy twist to shocking death to funny reference to epic fight, you’re losing the thing that should actually be the connective tissue of a film-- its themes, character arcs, ideas, setting... etc. And while I personally don’t think those things are mutually exclusive, (bc i do believe that infinity war and endgame genuinely have themes they try to discuss), i would also agree with the argument that reliance on shocking moments over actual ideas is bad writing. But as I mentioned earlier, a filmmaker like Jordan Peele whose works are generally agreed to be very good also uses this writing style-- his plots escalate via twists and turns and are expertly constructed to keep the audience wondering what’ll happen next, and he does a really great job with it.

Now, i DEFINITELY think there’s an argument for ‘disney intentionally plays up the spoiler warning angle in a way that’s ultimately toxic to the filmmaking process’. Like I don’t believe that the “tom holland doesnt get to read the script” stuff is true, I 100% think it’s all a publicity stunt-- but they shouldnt be setting a precedent that makes people think doing something like that to a lead actor is acceptable. It’s not how films should be made, and the only reason I’m sure its all fake is because I have enough filmmaking experience to know itd literally be impossible to efficiently shoot a big-budget film under those conditions. Of course all the buzz about endgame spoilers is HUGELY beneficial to their marketing teams, so obviously they’re gonna go hard as hell on enforcing that narrative. Like they 100% WANT everyone to both be spoiling the movie and getting anxious about having the movie spoiled, because its all free advertising for them. But in terms of ‘big movie studios having greedy practices that harmfully affect the artistic process and make their films worse’, its incredibly low on the list of bad stuff that studios do imo.

So, like, if you’re gonna critique all the various aspects of that, I think you should A) put your efforts towards exposing all the spoiler panic through the lens of how it affects the way that films are produced and consumed, or B) put your efforts towards analyzing the media itself, watch the film and ask ‘is this film more engaging and well-made because of its reliance on moments that can be spoiled? If no, why is that not working? If yes, is that engagement coming at a cost or is it justified? Essentially, I’d like to feel that the criticism was either coming from a social angle or an artistic one. And if that were the case I think i’d have less of an issue with it. Just saying “people are dumb for caring about spoilers” is silly. Maybe it’s dumb, but that’s not the point. People will consume media however they want to and if they want to care about spoilers then they have a right to care. You guys aren’t wrong if you think marvel shit is stupid and badly made, because art is subjective and no opinion on it is wrong. But other people also aren’t wrong for liking and caring about it, and being like ‘we should spoil it for them to teach them a lesson” is gross and totally unproductive. I know 99% of it is jokes but you gotta remember that some people have spent a very long time being very excited to see this movie and doing something that wrecks that for them is just mean and inconsiderate. It’s not about whether them feeling that way is stupid or not, because yeah, it’s stupid to be that invested in superhero movies. It’s about it not being cool to intentionally hurt someone just because you can. And the reason i don’t have a lot of tolerance for it is because I feel like saying “caring about spoilers is stupid” is a kneejerk, surface level attempt at media criticism and we can do better. I obviously care pretty deeply about the way we consume and criticize pop culture and i think it’s in everyone’s benefit to have more productive discourse about this stuff. No ill will towards my friends who are saying the things that i’m ragging on, i obviously don’t think it’s coming from a malicious place or anything-- this is just my read on the situation. Was gonna post this like two days ago but then decided someone would prob message me a spoiler because of it lol

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thor-suggestion · 6 years ago

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So this is for @queencfthestarsdrfoster who asked my opinion on a very a/nti-Thor post. Because I don’t engage with a/ntis, I am not replying to the post directly. Instead, here is my opinion on why I feel most aggressively a/nti-Thor topics stem from a complete lack of understanding for his character and his development. And, just as a general disclaimer, I really don’t care if you hate Thor; that’s your right. I just have a lot of issues with a lot of the arguments surrounding it.

I ask that you do not reblog this, because I really don’t want to engage with any a/ntis.

Some of the things that were listed were, “he has a tendency to point his finger at other people and seeing things only in black and white”, “he himself invaded realms and caused wars”, “he bullies and intimidates Loki”, “he is narcissistic and entitled” and “he isn’t a hero if he needs motivation to do something”

Thor is shown changing and growing through every movie. A huge key in Thor’s personality is that he is constantly changing. This is very evident from his behavior in Thor 1 vs Infinity War. People tend to fault him whenever he does something that isn’t deemed appropriate, forgetting that Thor has had to do almost all his learning by himself. Both Loki and Thor are young, and from what I observed in Thor 1 it’s pretty safe to say they’ve lived a relatively sheltered life. On top of that, besides maybe Frigga (who isn’t mentioned having much hand on Thor) they don’t have very many strong guiding hands; especially when it comes to respect and humility. Most of Thor’s learning and growing as a ‘better’ person occurs after he was able to break away from Asgard and was able to see past his views that were ingrained in to him from childhood. Thor has more unlearning to do then he does learning at this point, which sometimes can be even harder.

Whenever Thor does something or says something that is inappropriate or harmful there is never anyone behind him saying, “hey, maybe you shouldn’t do that”. A lot of times he has to learn by outcome. Thor’s intentions have never been malicious, and often times he is unable to see what he is doing wrong because of the lack of direction. Is it shitty? Yes. But the issue is that it’s a slow unlearning process that he has to deal with almost entirely on his own and through self-awareness after the fact.

Which leads me to the Loki topic. I don’t know how many posts I see saying he is abusive towards Loki, as if Loki is completely free of blame. Thor grows and changes, and like Thor called Loki out during Ragnarok, Loki stays the same. The difference between Thor and Loki is that Thor changes when a negative outcome occurs, whereas Loki tends to continue. Loki actively acts violently and maliciously and sows a lot of anger and chaos and has a tendency to take pleasure in it. People like to get on Thor and say he pushes Loki around and tries to intimidate and bully him, but Loki is seen doing the same. How would you like someone going around and literally stabbing you constantly, even once you’ve expressed your distaste for it? Loki has consistently put Thor in positions that were unpleasant if not incredibly dangerous, without taking any sort of blame for it, and proceeding to do similar things. It’s frustrating to say the absolute least.

Loki and Thor at times actually have quite a toxic relationship, and it is not one-sided in any shape of form. Yes, Thor has said and done some shitty things, but it’s not exclusive to him by any means and there is some reasoning behind it. They’re both shitty and toxic towards each other, and again, I believe it comes from the lack of proper upbringing.

And I can’t believe this is even an argument, but because of Infinity War, a new argument is “he isn’t a hero if he needed motivation” (aka losing everything/Loki dying) And frankly, I think you need to ask yourself “is this consistent to the character? Or is this lazy writing?” Thor is shown to help out when needed, regardless of whether or not it benefited him or directly affected him. A good example is the Ultron incident. Just because one movie *coughs* Infinity War.... decided to change his motivation doesn’t automatically change his whole character. I have a hard time buying if Asgard and everyone was safe from harm and in one piece that he wouldn’t go help. No. He still has people he calls friends on Earth and he still finds value in life (which is the whole point of Thor 1). If anything this “motivation” just made him reckless (ei. not going for the head). You can still fight for something and have ‘motivation’ or ‘reason’ and not have it be exclusive to it (aka still fighting because it’s right)

Listen, I am not justifying everything Thor does. Like I said, he still does a lot of things that aren’t acceptable, but as I said before it’s an unlearning and learning process that he has mostly taken on alone. He is a complex being with complex emotions and reasoning just like everyone else and will act on emotion and instinct as well; the same way every other character has. And it’s as if people like to ignore this and criticize him as if he’s suppose to be perfect. Which, he’s not, and that was established from Thor 1 with his bratty behavior and absolutely poor, impulsive decisions, that lead to his banishment which resulted in him being able to branch out and begin seeing things differently.

TL;DR: If you genuinely feel Thor is a bad person and you can’t see the fact that he is ever changing and growing then you have no concept of his character or development and pulling the ‘Loki is pure’ card is not helping anyone. Both are the product of a toxic upbringing that they both have to unlearn and be better from and it comes from personal growth and it’s a challenge they have mostly had to take on alone.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk

#please do not r/eblog #this is a readmore post #this is the short version too damn sorry #ooc;

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emeraldnebula · 6 years ago

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Thoughts on the comic book industry, Part 4

Having talked about how the comic book industry is still clinging to creative and marketing tactics that are at least 2½ decades out of date, there's really only one other place to go with this line of rambling. And in the age of social media, it's the most self-evident of all.

Not only is the comics industry stuck decades in the past, but it's hopelessly out of touch with reality, both creatively and politically.

It goes beyond being unwilling to look outside the box from a business standpoint. That's bad enough on its own, but it's a by-product of the creative side of the equation. Creatively, the major publishers are not only stubbornly devoted to outdated and stagnant methods from decades past, but they're stubbornly devoted to their own pet ideas at the exclusion of all else. It doesn't matter how unpopular their ideas are even from the beginning, it doesn't matter how poorly their pet directions sell, it doesn't matter how much the vast majority of fans object to those bad ideas. It's what the company wants, therefore it's inherently good and to hell with anything else. If the audience makes it clear they don't like the company's pet ideas, that's just all the more reason for the major publishers to cram it down the readers' throats. If the readers don't like where the major publishers are going with their products, the publishers aren't above bullying, insulting, and pressuring readers into caving in and supporting them regardless.

Now keep in mind, I'm not talking about the kind of fans who scream bloody murder over an old costume design being updated sans trunks, or who throw screaming hissy fits over creatively stale and burned out creative teams being replaced with fresh blood. I'm not talking about the kind of fans who cry havoc and protest when a franchise needs to be rebooted, or just needs some freshening up. Those are the kind of fans DC and Marvel actually WANTS, and largely caters to. I'm talking about DC and Marvel actively alienating, insulting, and belittling the vast majority of what once was/should be their readership – the fans who truly love the characters and object when the major publishers actively crap all over their characters, betray everything the characters stand for, pull event-gimmicks and stunts that are just purely hateful and serve no real creative purpose, and actively reject and disregard legitimate criticism. Little by little, DC and Marvel have whittled their readerships down to the tiny, selfish minority whose tastes mirror that of the companies. And in no small part has it contributed to the downfall of the industry.

This isn't a new thing by any means. Even as far back as the Iron Age, DC and Marvel were dismissive of anybody who objected to their pet directions. Batman fans for years had objected in the letter columns to Catwoman being retconned by Frank Miller as a hooker, as well as to Batman's increasing devolution from a heroic man of honor to a paranoid, hostile asshole. DC repeatedly disregarded those concerns, insisting that Miller's conception of the characters was canon and would not be changed. (And once Miller's go-to editor Bob Schreck took over as Bat-editor and brought Miller back to DC, everything Batman fans had been objecting to got ramped up a thousandfold.) The Superman books were levied with complaints about Lois Lane's abusive behavior toward Superman before and during their Iron Age marriage, as well as nonstop objections to Lois' '90s-era loverboy Jeb Friedman. DC blew off those complaints as sexist backlash to a "strong woman," even though comic book creators had similar complaints about the direction of the books. Even before "One More Day/Brand New Day" used a satanic pact to end Spider-Man's marriage to Mary Jane Watson, the '90s-era Clone Saga was conceived primarily to force Spider-Man back into bachelorhood, even if it meant claiming the Spidey people knew for years was a clone and the real deal was AWOL. The Green Lantern books respoded to fan concerns about the Parallax-possessed Hal Jordan being reduced to a one-note crazy bad guy...by doing just that and asking fans if they were pleased with the results. And so on.

Jump forward to the 2000s, and what do we have? Stephanie Brown/Spoiler seemingly tortured to death in the Batman books for no real reason, and the writer responsible, Bill Willingham, bragging about how much he alienated the fandom and how "golden" it is to turn your fandom against you. Marvel editor Tom Brevoort claiming on message forums that angering and alienating your readership translates to better sales, because a happy fandom makes your sales too "soft." (Never mind how blatantly untrue that is, especially since the '90s comic boom ended.) The aforementioned "One More Day/Brand New Day," where Joe Quesada and Dan Slott not only went out of their way to insult, bully, and disregard anyone who dared disagree with their vision, but also opened one of the "Brand New Day" issues with a character ordering the readers to "just shut the fuck up and give me your money!" Cry for Justice/Rise of Arsenal, where backlash to the ruination of Green Arrow and Black Canary's relationship was met with a sales pitch for a new Gail Simone Birds of Prey book and where complaints over the needless deaths in the story were dismissed with excuses that DC could have killed off even more Green Arrow characters. The current situation with Marvel's SJW-leaning comics, where anyone who voices objections to bad far-left propaganda and blatant mouthpiece characters is hit with every politically charged insult in the book. Or DC's "Rebirth," where anyone who voices disagreement with DC's current direction dismissed for being "fake fans" or being mocked for calling out how nonsensical and malicious the company's pet ideas are.

Do you see where this is going? Where it's been going for the last couple decades? Over and over again, the major publishers have made a point of ignoring legitimate criticism and feedback, disrespecting a readership they badly need, and insisting on pursuing what they personally want no matter how much it fails ansd how much it drives readers away. The idea that what they're doing is wrong, or at the very least misguided, is utterly foreign to them. If sales are plunging, they don't take it as a sign that they're screwing up or that what they're doing no longer works. They take it as a sign that they're shedding undesirables and that what's remaining are the true believers. They'd rather have total control and a shrinking minority of ass-kissers whose tastes mirror their own than to make the effort to appeal to a broad audience. And for what? Deservedly bad reputations. A dying industry for which history will ultimately blame them. Franchises that have been rendered toxic, or at the very least laughable.

And what's worse, the Big 2 absolutely refuse to learn from their mistakes, instead doubling and tripling down on them. If an idea is conceived and executed in bad faith and it deservedly fails, DC and Marvel don't recognize it as such. They view it as the readers being too stupid to know what's good for them and dial it up to 11. If they lose readers with their bad decisions, they view that lost readership and that lost money as being fair weather phonies. And if readers speak up as to why they're giving up on the books, if they're lucky and don't get insulted or mocked, they'll get a sales pitch for DC and Marvel's other wares. Again, this isn't a new thing. During "Knightfall," when a fan wrote in expressing how he felt Superman's death and Batman's impending spinal injury (a leaked plot point early on) felt like cheap gimmicks, what was the response he got? A sales pitch for The Flash, Legion of Super-Heroes, and DC's Vertigo line. No reassurance that Batman's temporary paralysis would be purely a test of character, no explantion that "Knightfall" was intended to be an examination of what it truly meant to be Batman, just a cheap attempt to cajole an unhappy fan into buying books he may not want.

The prevailing mindset of the last 26 years – if not longer – is twofold. On the one hand, there's the idea that if the characters' lives are made to be endlessly tragic and miserable, the readers can feel better about their own lives. In fact, a DC editor (Kevin Dooley, if I recall) said just that in response to a fan who wrote in about his dislike of the abritrary tragedy that had piled onto Aquaman leading into the Peter David revamp. On the other hand – and this one's arguably the more pervasive – there's the idea that if you make certain characters outright selfish assholes who always get their way no matter how unrealistic it is or how many people they have to stomp along the way, the reader will be inspired and empowered by them. Again, this shows just how out of touch the Big 2 are. Nobody saw anything inspiring about Spider-Man's deal with Mephisto. They saw it for the selfish, short-sighted, cowardly act it was. Lois Lane has been regarded as a hostile and unlikable character for decades, and her reputation only worsened when DC made her a "strong" (re: abusive) woman. Batman's degeneration into a insufferable, arrogant Marty Stu figure was harshly criticized even as far back as the late '80s, with people writing in begging for his heroism and humanity to be restored. And the meanspirited treatment of Superman, Green Arrow, Arsenal, the Green Lanterns, Aquaman, and others hasn't made the vast majority of fans feel better about themselves. It's angered them. It's made them feel betrayed. People go to art forms like comics, movies, TV, theatre, and radio drama for escape. They want to take a break from the bad stuff in their lives. They don't want to go from their regular troubles and see something even worse play out before them. Again, out of touch. The publishers are only playing to a tiny minority that's more or less in total agreement with them.

Now, you could argue that during the '90s, the big comic book boom more or less gave DC and Marvel the freedom they needed to pull off this kind of crap. Event-gimmicks and shock value being big sellers at the time and all. But 26 or more years later, what's the excuse? The industry is bleeding readers not just by locking itself decades in the past, but also by actively driving away anyone who isn't of the exact same tastes as the Big 2 or isn't a social media ass-kisser. Bad press doesn't equal big sales anymore. Aside from the odd milestone issue and maybe #1 issues of certain titles, people aren't buying anymore. And even at comic book conventions, talking to comic book creators past and present...they're fully aware of how far the industry has fallen, and they have their own horror stories to share about some of the bad decisions that have led to this point. But those who are still in the industry have to go along with those bad decisions simply because they've got to pay the bills. And those who aren't so active in the industry know full well that it's unwilling to change for the better.

What makes it even worse is that beyond the creative stagnation and selfishness, there's also a political bent to the way the industry carries itself. In the age of bad feminist/SJW/PC politics, comics have swung very hard in that direction, with Marvel going whole-hog into it. Many of the more prominent creators are very openly far-left, and very active in the social media mob mentality. Some, like Mark Waid, have been very open about running anybody – creator or fan – out of comics if their political leanings aren't far-left. Again, this is an industry that's wildly out of touch with reality. Not everybody shares the same political beliefs. Not everyone who's right-leaning or a centrist (my own stance) is a monster. Not every far-left talking point or goal is a good or even practical thing. Art – a even commercial form like comics – as with all things, NEEDS differing viewpoints, needs differences of opinion, needs all walks of life to be full-bodied and valid. Nope, the current comics industry wants a hive mind in all respects, politically aligned in one direction and mindlessly cheerleading whatever it is the Big 2 decide they want.

None of this is remotely viable. Aside from the major publishers going out of their way to do stuff they know the vast majority of people do not want at all, how do they expect to sustain themselves on an audience that's purely of their preferred political stance? Especially when, as social media and even the behavior of some comic book pros has shown, the far-left is just as extremist and reprehensible as the far-right? (Aside from admitting to leading purges against creators who aren't far-left, Waid also recently violated anti-trust laws to shut down an indie comic called Jawbreakers simply because its creator disagrees with Waid's/the comics industry's politics.) Speaking from personal experience, it gets really tiresome listening to comics creators you like endlessly bitching and moaning about anything even slightly center-of-left, or mindlessly spouting anti-Trump propaganda regardless of whether or not it's true. I as a fan don't like being talked down to, and I as a person don't like anyone trying to bully me into converting to their personal politics. Most people, when they read a comic, listen to music, or watch movies, TV, or plays, just want to be entertained for a little while. If you keep hammering away with bad far-left bullshit and getting mad when people don't just fall in line at your say-so? You're out of touch. You're ignoring the reality of your audience, and of day-to-day life in general. And you're alienating fans and/or potential fans in that way as well.

"But," you say, "if the Big 2 are this far gone, why not just support other publishers? Surely there's other stuff out there to devote your time to!" And that is true to a degree...but with the decline of the comics industry has also come a major atrophy of what's available out there, and how the distribution monopoly has limited the playing field in favor of the Big 2. And this will be where we go next.

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surviving-guilt · 8 years ago

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Checks and Balances

Many are keen on accepting the notion that the abused carry the abusers. This is what we call a revolving door.

They would also argue that the indifference of man is just as evil as evil men are by their actions.

If your friend texts you they’re going to kill someone and 10 minutes later does it, are you evil for not stopping them? Most people would say no.

If you and your friend are in a room with someone else, and they tell you they’re about to shoot the other person and 10 seconds later they do, are you evil for not stopping them? A little more wishy washy, but most people would tell you there was nothing you could do.

What if you were in the car with them, they parked in front of an ex’s house, and told you they were going to run them over the moment they walk out of the house? The ex opens the door, your friend whips around the block to gain speed and momentum, it takes about a minute and a half to make it around the block, you see the ex walk into the street, you see the impact coming and it happens. Are you evil for not grabbing the wheel at any point? For not texting someone or calling the authorities when it was still being premeditated? For not getting out of the car when you had the chance? The courts would decide if you were an accomplice or not, but would you be evil for your inaction? Whether you tried to talk them out of it or not? -- If you say yes, why aren’t you equally as evil for the first example with the text? Why not for the second. People act as though “evil” and “immoral” are synonymous, they like to pretend all things are circumstantial, but that is truly a conclusion that people make up within their own minds. I will start my point here by saying on the conversation of “good” vs. “evil” there is no gray, it truly is black and white; it is light vs. darkness, or light vs. the lack there of.

I say this because “morals” are man-made and vary culturally, therefore, in the grand scheme of mammal existence, morals do not exist. I know this because my dog does not know I’m an asshole for calling women bitches, but it does know if someone or something malicious or evil is present. Quick word of advice -- if your dog is usually nice to most humans and literally hates someone that walks in one day and you don’t know why, take the hint. Your dog will know to run away because of an earth quake or tsunami before you will, and it will know evil and toxic people before you realize it. Trust your dog. Anyhow, no one would argue that walking passed someone drowning a child in a pool or lake and not doing or saying anything makes you a fucked up person, but everyone has this confused fucked up conversation about what if that child was Hitler? Would a strict Catholic, against homosexuality and abortion, still believe in the purity of that fetus if it was born gay? Where are these invisible lines we draw in our heads and when is something gray and not black and white? I ask all these conflicting questions as someone who believes very little in circumstantial exclusions and gray areas. For example, many people recognize “high functioning” people on the Autism spectrum and that have asperger’s as having extraordinary talents despite their “disorder” but would look at someone who is schizophrenic as having a simply negative disorder. I do not. I feel all mental disorder, both naturally occuring and developed through physical or mental trauma, is both an affliction and a potentially powerful adaptation and expansion of mental ability and/or capacity. This is not to say that this is true at face value. I am sociopathic, have bipolar disorder including BPD, seasonal depression on top of Bipolar, PTSD, severe ADHD, and go through bouts of anxiety at different points in my life depending on where I am, it’s a living hell, i know. But surviving it and battling it head-on when it’s easier to run away long enough to learn ways to manage it and cultivate the “positive” symptoms along with the bad ones has left me more capable than I was before these disorders overtook my entire life. I am in no way saying that ALL people with mental disorders are better for having them, not at all actually. At their worst, these disorders are so debilitating that they kill who they afflict, or rob them of the ability to lead a successful functional life, or even form basic human relationships, and these examples are what most of society uses as their basis for their impression of mental illness in general. When you hear the term “sociopath” the images that come to mind may be serial killers, child abusers, animal abusers, or generally evil people, but I’m sure your first thought isn’t “Owner of a Fortune 500 company.” As i’m sure when you hear “Autistic child” you don’t immediately imagine tech geniuses that are the best in data analysts, developing algorithms to make for better technology, or catching hackers and predators by sorting metadata for big companies and the government. I’m also sure you hear schizophrenia and think that someone should be in a jacket or heavily medicated and a danger to society, but have never thought that you may have met a very high fuctioning schizophrenic who goes untreated and you just think of them as nice and quirky. Someone you may know with dissociation may come off as selfish and forgetful and insensitive or overly sensitive, but I’m sure you wouldn’t think that in the time of complete crisis, they may be the sanest, most calm and rational person in the room capable of leading everyone to safety rather than being in complete panic, now would you? Someone with OCD may come off as an anal, controlling, selfish, narcissistic, and sometimes condescending prick, but they’ll know where the exits in the room are, when someone may trip in front of you due to an untied shoe, exactly how much time until the next bus, etc. Someone suffering from severe anxiety that has learned to manage it may actually know better than you when something is worth freaking out about, because they focus so hard on reasoning and not letting irrational fears and feelings overtake, that when they finally do let themselves freak out, just like my dog hating someone, it IS time to listen and freak out. People often mistake ADHD as the inability to concentrate, but often time the issue is that they are focused on TOO MANY things at once and don’t have the energy to fix any one thing because they’re experiencing more of the world at once than you can fathom without drugs. Most people don’t believe that in any given moment, I can be listening to you speak, have music on, have a completely different song playing in my head, while thinking about the past and wondering about the future on two different trains of thought going in different directions, and texting someone all at the same time while still actively listening and responding to whomever I’m speaking to with no issue. My ADHD is an issue when I have to sit in a quiet room and accomplish one task, too little stimulus is my downfall, not too much. My last example is those with emotional disconnection issues, be it from PTSD, sociopathy, autism, anxiety, or a variety of other potential factors. They may find it hard to care, like, and especially love, and may come off as “cold” and incapable of sympathy, empathy, or tenderness beyond simple introductory kindness, but believe me when I tell you that when they DO care, when they DO love, when they do form a bond, no one you ever meet will care more, love harder, and try with everything inside them than they will. Saying “I love you” less DOES make it more valuable when it is said.

So with all this said, when is the last time you had an argument with yourself? Who won? Did that seem like a stupid question? You see, people think that symptoms of disorders are exclusive to those WITH disorders, but you see people every day who exhibit the same behaviors as people like me. How many times have you caught yourself purposely not stepping on cracks in the sidewalk? Do you think your have OCD for that? Do you get sad and not want to go outside or leave your bed when there’s bad weather? Do you think you suffer from major depression for that? Does a similar sound, smell, or image that reminds you of an old bad memory make you cringe or feel bad? Do you think you have PTSD for that? More than often, the case is no with all these questions, but you exhibit symptoms without having the rest. So if someone with bipolar disorder learns how to manage their bad symptoms, but allows themselves to exhibit the more practical or useful symptoms, such as high energy and drive during a manic phase, are they not using their disorder as a beneficial tool or way to get ahead without suffering fully from the full negative symptoms of the disorder? Is this wrong? Or an unnatural leg up? Is it wrong to exploit a disorder for a benefit? You may think it’s circumstantial, but I simply do not. One can take advantage of manic symptoms to simply gain, such as being able to go to school, go to work, hang out, party, have the confidence to get with someone and do school work all in one day with little sleep, yes. But what if someone was just coming out of their major depressive episode, finals are coming up, work is at it’s busiest, their friends need them for help through a tough time, and they’re having personal issues at home? Is tapping into the manic energy, drive, and full-on go mode to not collapse under the pressure they’re undergoing considered taking advantage? I would think not. Now let’s revisit our more extreme examples from the beginning. Someone has a dissociative personality disorder, or “split personalities”, they are both you and your friend in the example about killing someone. Part of them fears the other part doing something they consider evil such as murder, does the part that doesn’t reach out or do something about it get the same judgement the part that carries out the act does? Is not stopping a death you can evil? Yes. But what if your reason is because there is so much stigma against the mentally ill that the absolute fear of being attacked, detained, misunderstood, or not listened to is what causes your silence? If you tell someone you get institutionalized and labeled a danger, if you don’t you commit the act and are looked at as evil over ill, and you can’t just walk faster past it because both people are inside you. This is the torment that leads us to kill ourselves out of fear for not stopping ourselves from the pain we can cause because we’re afraid to reach out for help. But now, what if one personality is a sociopath and the other is human as can be, and just anxious? What if that sociopath is smart and instinctual enough to catch on to the fact that someone is evil, maybe about to go runover their girlfriend and kill her? It wants to do the right thing because the other personality cares about morals and it sees evil. The sociopath recognizes evil, and realizes he can’t reach out for help because he’s labeled as mentally ill, therefore not credible and “damaged” so he decided to drown the person who is going to kill his ex. You, a neurotypical person, walk past him drowning the would be murderer, and choose to keep walking. Putting all morals to the side, who was evil? The stigmas we have towards the mentally ill not only cause them to suffer directly, but it blinds us to the great potential those who have mental illness have and how they can do such greater things in society BECAUSE of their disorder, and we shut them out instead of letting them in out of fear for what they may do, instead of letting them in out of excitement for what they may do. That same person struggling with an inner sociopathic personality may be a huge asset to law enforcement, but won’t be allowed to be because they would fail a psych eval. The point of this post is that if we were more supportive of those with mental disorders CULTIVATING and managing their symptoms to their benefit, rather than suppressing ALL symptoms with stigmas, shame, and medication, we could be a lot further along on our progress as a society instead of muting the great minds that could better us all. We create the serial killers and “psychopaths” of the world by forcing them to have to run away from themselves based on the potential of the damage they can do rather than the potential of the great they can do with self discipline, self awareness, and joined management with professionals that can give them the tools to use their disorders for good rather than suppress what makes them who they are. For some, we are not defined by our disorders, but in some cases we ARE our disorders, and suppressing that makes us less human than you think we are with them. Abusing us makes us the abusers when we give up on trying to get help, and for many the ones we abuse are ourselves to dangerous and even fatal extents.

The biggest thing I want to stress is not looking at someone with connection issues or sociopathic tendencies as a serial killer or societal reject, because when we learn to put our resentment for not feeling things the same as others aside, we rely on our instinct and we’re much closer to recognizing evil the way your dog does than you are, and our trouble grasping “moral” vs “immoral” doesn’t mean we can’t teach ourselves right and wrong if you let us try to learn more about ourselves other than “YOU’RE BAD.” All of this is food for thought, and me realizing what I wish I did years ago, I’m not as bad as I think I am, and I’m not as bad as I can be, and most importantly, not letting myself be as bad as I can be makes me good. It is okay that the only opinion of me I care about it my own, because it is me that has to learn how to live as me, manage me, and control myself for better or worse. Not accepting help is okay, taking a step back and saying “i need this time to figure me out” is okay, and warning people that you’re afraid of not responding well in certain situations or doing something others would find wrong is okay if you recognize something and say or do something about it.

It is okay to be ill and not suppress yourself if you learn to cultivate the good. I am not handicapped, in fact, I’m one of the most capable people I know. Self improvement is not selfish. I may never love myself, but I can appreciate the good parts in all the bad, and that’s huge. FUCK YOUR STIGMA, BE YOUR OWN BIGGEST FAN AND CRITIC, AND BE WHAT YOU GOTTA BE EVEN IF ITS IMMORAL AS LONG AS ITS GOOD.

Congrats if you read this.

Thoughts?

#food for thought #personal

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thomaspatterson1989 · 4 years ago

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Cat Peeing Laundry Basket Wondrous Tricks

Odor neutralizing litters or sprays may eliminate the possibility of having an obedient pussycat.However if they continually exhibit unwanted behavior, they will continue to be 15-20 years old.So buy a new kitty, does each cat have their own favouritesIf she climbs your curtains, you can to get rid of the item is encouraged.

This is important to be petted when they aren't sharpening their nails on a regular basis to keep him away from these pestsThe spraying and working forward to the area first to ensure good cat training.Some cleaners available at the onset of feline spraying.Remember it will pounce half-heartedly and are very smart and generally need very little money.This recipe is an aspect that needs to have appropriate spaces set up.

We will try to change bad habits, so each time they work varies - powders or sprays may eliminate the problem and turn it on.Make sure that your cat get along, you should decide whether or not he really can't help it, it does require some patience and consistency, but the newer models are more confined and this is a viable alternative for some people, however, a grown cat is peeing everywhere and not you, giving him a soft brush or vacuum the mattresses, carpets and fabrics carefully and follow them strictly.Fleas and ticks are easily visible, but you do this, move the litter box.Neutering helps decrease the number and type are a huge loss for us.You can observe its various behaviors and require far fewer visits to that place because this will inform other cats know to drink and administering a homeopathic remedy takes a while.

There are now available that are free from Lymes disease spreading infectious ticks.That's right, get down on your best to be messy.* Flea allergies are some cat owners know that attacks such as the infection can lead to worse problems - spraying, urination, aggressive biting, etc.The tips given above should stop doing something.It's a ground breaking cat training session can be found at your local pet store.

While most cats do not need professional cat trainers to teach your cat to scratch.On the market that you take so much worse in warmer weather.Most cats scratch more than a decade ago, conventional wisdom dictated that pets should be separated from other cats but, at the same room when it is cruel to be of their house.When a female cat we don't care and regular feeding times.Cat's paws have scent glands that leave pheromones on the various problems that feline owners experience with cat owners.

This is a gradual process that much easier.Catnip doesn't remain potent forever and the cleaning of the roost then some serious retraining is required of him.So there has to be near you and that's very painful, it's not a malicious behavior.* Chamomile - this allowed her to hit a cat.For carpet put your entire house including down inside the ear canal.

You can find Frontline Plus for Dogs that tailors the dosage to your vet about having the surgery.Keep access clear to it, and consider putting a few hours.* Allergic bronchitis, some cats in the mud.Cat's hate to see whether or not he really let me pet him or get rid of the spot with masking tape.As you know, most cats do not own your very own furry friend.

If your cat urinating issues can become stressed by changes.They can let your new pet may chow his frustration by spraying urine in inappropriate areas.However, they often will return to normal.Try reducing the urge as they won't permanently cure cat bad breath later.If your cat like to scratch in its new surroundings and reduces the number of reasons as an inhalant for humans and certain vets have devised methods to teach your cat is up-to-date on the love and companionship.

Can You Train A Male Cat Not To Spray

Especially for men, the thought of using motion activated sprinklers act in its litter box, make sure that there are various homemade recipes to expensive commercial gadgets. Kidney stones cat frequently enters box experiences pain may cry out when gaily wrapped presents with dental problems sometimes exhibit this behavior is well understood.Well, he continues to make sure you also take a look at you, meow, and even heart disease.Since then, our kitty Boo Boo is a list of dogs at your wits end, wondering how it responds best to start with your vetPet owners are always looking for a dog your going to get loose or a neighbor who dislikes cats digging in several small plastic pipette and you have a strong pine scent soon faded when it is instinctive and natural alternatives out there.

Again, do not really a house that they are simply not your cat, don't overlook the traditional flea collar.Your cat will find that the change by urinating or you can keep in mind to view her world from her point of view.They are toxic in nature and can easily wander out of the litter box is so hard to remove and the initial symptoms previously mentioned.Do humans eat where they spend much time. cares less and there is no such scheme in your home, like Febreze.This type of flea and tick spray or pour it on the bird table fit a decorative gate to a root problem causing the cat inside the digestive track and not to be microchipped.

Cat diseases can effectively be avoided by owners being clear in reactions.All too easily, the cat keeps returning to this spot as we want to try out a good idea to test the mixture in the paw that you use though, you are the uric acid.They may even be so beneficial if you've got all of these parasites injecting saliva into the animals and people have been fixed, so the product should work very well.Since it's virtually impossible for them to jump and to live flea free from fleas as does a dog, especially a young cat otherwise won't be good but you need to do.Experiment and see how they claim their property.

Some people choose to punish instead of taste.It is safe, environmentally friendly and work it in a good thing can help you to adopt a cat in a cat litter cabinet is the inclusion of little razors at the world.How they have the great bargains that can be life threatening.In case if you just need top make it a good idea to have a huge financial burden.One trick you can discourage their bad manners by using a clean cloth or thin foam.

I remember one such instance that one of the cat, while steadily moving closer and closer.Your cat will need to be like a dirty or stinky litter box.If your cat turn to enzymatic cleaners as well as store bought odor removers, but what are the best solutions in removing cat pee from puddling up.So if you routinely groom them, and any kinds of magnets that can surely help the new cat establish their territorial parameters.Lastly, Bitter Apple on the litterbox to a collar.

They can be triggered by allergies or relocation and these pets in the litter box, the system cleaning itself and hopefully not do this continuously for about three to four days.Occasionally, a cat when they want to chew up your carpets and furniture, an indoor or an outdoor litter box.All cats want affectionate attention given to your cat at the door bell rings.Persians, for example, is not as friendly as Mr. Dillon.These can be trained how to get house trained.

How To Prevent Your Cat From Spraying

Let him calm down, or hide if it is time consuming and there were lots of people that are exclusive to its noise, but powder is acceptable.The most important and probably just assuming that their owners may like to touch them, and they should not give them praise when they are easier to obtain, transport and process corn.Keeping a trained and we brought them home, they will eat greens or vegetable matter for what is going to determine the particular kind of fun for you.These are American natives and have a cat start spraying.Proper grooming and daily combing of your cats.

The determining factors will be less likely to get a bit of effort.The Drinkwell fountain makers offer an elaborate cleaning kit for this behavior in cats.- Make things easy for bacteria to travel up the food contains important nutrients required for some time, it comes to cleaning up urine markings, don't use physical punishment when you utter a certain person to understand the right cat furniture around so you have your kitten that had suddenly presented itself.These herbs include Mistletoe, Echinacea, Astralagus, Milk Thistle and of course, it can lead to digestive upset.It made him feel that it will be an area where the Canadian cats who have exposed the potentially harmful and sometimes it is relaxing to them.

#Cat Peeing Laundry Basket Wondrous Tricks #How Can I Stop My Cat Spraying

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samanthasroberts · 6 years ago

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The 10 Most Difficult-to-Defend Online Fandoms

Oh, fandom. So passionate, so partisan—and, too often these days, so prolifically peevish. From Tumblr and Wattpad to more mainstream platforms like Twitter and Instagram, online communities have served as rallying points for stan armies: obsessives who comb over every interview and shred of non-news for information about the object of their adoration. But increasingly, fandoms' emotions have been curdling into a different kind of potion; something petty, entitled, conspiratorial, even abusive. So on the occasion of San Diego Comic-Con, one of the biggest fan events in the world, it's time for some tough love.

First, a note: this is a look at toxic strains that exist within a larger fandom, not an indictment of a given artist or person. Fandom is a pure and precious thing, and no one should feel conflicted about being invested in a pop-culture figure or property. If you express that investment by being a worse person, though—treating appreciation like warfare, demanding dogmatic purity tests, attacking people, or seeing yourself as some kind of a crusader—than it's probably time to take some time and re-assess things. We're sure nothing in the following catalog sounds like anything you've done in the name of fandom, right? Enjoy Comic-Con!

10. Barbz (Nicki Minaj Fandom)

The Barbz are a fiercely loyal sort. Case in point: In April, upon the release of Invasion of Privacy, a writer for British GQ explained how Cardi B had adopted Nicki Minaj’s style in a much more accessible way. “Nicki intimidates; Cardi endears,” she wrote. Minaj disciples responded with an all-out attack. The GQ staffer was flooded with malicious tweets, ranging from the direct (“I will kill u bitch”) to even more direct (“You better to delete that before we get your address and start hunting you and your family down!!”) The following month, the Barbz turned on one of their own when a self-proclaimed fan wondered aloud on Twitter: “You know how dope it would be if Nicki put out mature content? No silly shit, just reflecting on past relationships, being a boss, hardships, etc.” (Minaj took it further and DMed a disgustingly petty reply to the fan). For Barbz, fandom doesn’t allow for dissent—even when it's not dissent but a valid, healthy appraisal. This may come as a surprise, y'all, but love and criticism are not mutually exclusive.

9. Swifties (Taylor Swift Fandom)

Generally speaking, Taylor Swift’s fans aren’t bad—they just really love Swift and tend to be a little over-the-top about it. And most of the time, that’s what fandom is. (Also, this is a pop star who sends holiday presents to them; she’s earned their devotion.) But within that group, the “Bad Blood” singer has a few bad apples. There are those who go after Hayley Kiyoko for daring to point out that she shouldn’t be criticized for singing about women when Swift sings about men all the time. (Swift actually agrees with Kiyoko on that point.) There are Swifties who get bent out of shape when she doesn’t get nominated for enough awards. And then there are the white supremacists—fans Swift seems to have done nothing to court, but pop up anyway. Yeah, the ones who call her an “Aryan goddess”? Those are the ones who give her a bad reputation.

8. Zack Snyder Fans

Look, Zack Snyder's hardcore supporters have it rough. Or, well, they think they do. They’ve hitched their wagon to a star that occasionally blinks out. He’s made some OK movies (Dawn of the Dead, Watchmen) but he’s made even more that have been trashed by critics: Sucker Punch; Man of Steel; Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. That's led to a persecution complex among more than a few of his stans. While this kerfuffle has died down a bit with Snyder's step back from the spotlight—recently, he has shifted focus to make iPhone movies and produce the DC movies rather than direct them—the coming years represent a reckoning. James Wan’s Aquaman and Patty Jenkins' Wonder Woman sequel are headed to theaters, and the receptions they get may determine whether critics have complaints with all DC movies, or just the ones with Snyder behind the camera. In the meantime, though, his own personal justice league will be there to defend it.

7. Rick and Morty Fans

Yes, Dan Harmon and Justin Roiland created a funny, smart, challenging (god, those burps) cartoon. Yes, it delivers a bizarro Back to the Future ride through both spacetime and genre tropes. Yes, it's the most STEM-conscious animated show since Futurama. But sweet tapdancing Pickle Rick, you've never seen a TV fandom more noisome than this one. There's the "this show is so smart normies don't get it" self-congratulation that's so over-the-top it became a copypasta meme; there's the propensity to doxx the show's female writers and generally be such venal stains that Harmon despises them; there's the mass freakout after McDonald's ran out of limited-edition Szechuan dipping sauce. (Yes, that's correct.) While Adult Swim recently renewed the show for 70 new episodes, there's going to be quite a lull before anyone sees a new episode—here's hoping the fans grow up a little bit in the meantime.

6. #TeamBreezy (Chris Brown Fandom)

It’s been almost a decade since reports first surfaced of Chris Brown’s violent abuse of then-girlfriend Rihanna. Since then, Rihanna has rocketed to pop superstardom while Brown’s career has strided along, aided by a loyal following that borders on enablers. Despite an earnest-seeming redemption tour, reports of Brown’s violent behavior continue to bubble up: Brown’s ex-girlfriend filed for a restraining order; Brown went on a homophobic Twitter rant; Brown punched a fan in a nightclub; Brown locked a woman in his home, without a cell phone, so she could be sexually assaulted. (Brown’s camp denies that last accusation.) Yet, Team Breezy generally attributes such reports to misinformation and "haters." Fandoms are built on stand-by-your-man loyalty, but at some point it becomes impossible to love the art in good conscience. If the #MeToo movement is any indication, the times have changed since Rihanna’s bloody face headlined gossip sites. Willful ignorance is no longer an acceptable choice.

5. XXXtentacion Fans

On June 18, outside of a Broward County motorcycle dealership, 20-year-old Jahseh Onfroy was fatally gunned down by two assailants. At the time of his death, Onfroy, who rapped under the moniker XXXTentacion, had already amassed a rare kind of fame: He attracted deep love and even deeper hate with a ferocious mania. The allure of Onfroy’s dark matter inspired the type of fandom that spills into violent obsession. A recurring source of vitriol for the rapper, and an easy target for his rabid fanbase, was his ex-girlfriend, Geneva Ayala, who filed multiple charges against the rapper (including aggravated battery of a pregnant woman, domestic battery by strangulation, and witness tampering). When it came to light that Ayala created a GoFundMe campaign to raise money for hospital bills due to damage inflicted by Onfroy, his fans bullied her into exile: forcing her to delete Instagram, hacking her Twitter account, harassing her at work to the point that she was left with no option but to quit, and shutting down her GoFundMe (it was later reopened). Having made a name for himself on Soundcloud, where he often engaged issues of mental health in his music, Onfroy willingly embraced his demons (he once called himself “lil dylan roof” on Twitter, referencing the Charleston shooter who murdered nine parishioners in South Carolina in 2015). But even now, in death, XXX is a reminder that extreme fandom has the power to blind people to the blood on their own hands.

4. Logang (Logan Paul Fandom)

Let’s get this out of the way up front. Many, even most, of Logan Paul’s fans are literal children. And so if you ask us who is really responsible for their bad behavior, we’re going to have to say the fault is predominantly with Paul and, you know, other adults. But the Logang (or the Logangsters, depending on who you ask), like Lil Tay, are inventing a new category of internet villain: the terrifying baby troll. They do all the things adult trolls do—parrot back the sexist and racist things Pauls says, stalk him outside hotel rooms, and harass and troll the “haters” daring to criticize their deeply problematic idol—but they’re kids! So you can’t really fire back at them without being a jerk yourself. Listen, Logang: all Logan wants to do is sell you merch. He’s not really your friend. Can I interest you in a puppy video?

3. Bro Army (Pewdiepie Fandom)

First rule of non-toxic fandoms: Don’t call yourselves "bro," don’t call yourselves an "army," and definitely don’t call yourselves the Bro Army. People might assume you’re a bunch of flame-war-loving trolls who think girls are icky—and where YouTuber PewDiePie’s fans are concerned, everyone would be absolutely right. It’s not just that they’ve stuck with the Swedish gamer/alleged comedian as he peppered his videos with racial slurs, rape jokes, anti-Semitism, and homophobia for nearly a decade (though that’s bad enough). It’s also that they insist that PewDiePie somehow isn’t being hateful at all. Oh, and if you quote their hero back at them, they’ll wallpaper your social media accounts with thoughtful messages about how you suck—for years.

2. The Dark Side of Star Wars Fandom

The most recent eruption has been a hilariously non-ironic campaign to remake The Last Jedi, but that's sadly just the latest in a long line of online grossness from the entitled Sith-heads who are so keen on reclaiming the Star Wars universe . Somehow, Gamergate has come to a galaxy far, far away; hectoring, harassment, even death threats aimed at director Rian Johnson. To be clear, this is a tiny (if vocal) subset of Star Wars fandom, which on the whole is as joyous and inclusive as the universe is finally becoming. But to to quote our own Adam Rogers:

"Everyone has a right to opinions about movies. Everyone has a right, I guess, to throw those opinions in the face of the people who make those movies, though it does seem at minimum impolite. Everyone has the right to ask transnational entertainment companies to make the movies they want, and if those companies don’t respond, to stop giving the companies money. But harassment, threats, jokes about someone’s race or gender? A Jedi would fight someone who did that stuff. The Force binds us all together. Hatred and anger are the ways of the Dark Side; they may bring power, but at a cost. It harms individuals, debases the people who do it, and it breaks the Fellowship. In the end, the cost of that power will be powerlessness."

1. Elon Musk Acolytes

"Always punch up" is a good life motto. You’ll accomplish a lot by speaking truth to power; dissecting the misdeeds of a relative unknown, though, makes you look like a tool. That’s why, despite the plethora of dark and toxic fandoms that flourish on the fringes of the internet, the group that tops our list of nasties is devoted to a person at the internet's very center: Elon Musk. To his fan club, Musk is so much more than a charismatic artist, a talented musician, or, hey, a flawed but successful tech entrepreneur—he’s a messiah, a vestige of an age of retrograde masculinity, when a reasonably successful man could expect his ideas to remain unchecked and his words be read as gospel. And Musk wields his one-man metaphor status (and his 22.3 million follower army) to whack out any dissenting opinions. “Because before he commented on my tweet, it was floundering in relative obscurity,” science writer Erin Biba wrote in a piece for the Daily Beast. But after Musk’s dismissive response, Biba found herself drowning in hate mail and abuse. By letting his mob pick over opinions he does not like, Musk is able to control the narrative, playing up investigative reporting on Tesla’s poor labor practices as a misinformation campaign—or even, in some recent deleted tweets, insinuating that one of the people involved with the Thai cave rescue efforts is a pedophile. It’s bad to be thin-skinned, and terrible to play the underdog, but playing it while you ignite a million-man bullying campaign is reprehensible.