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loopy777 · 4 years ago

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I think I can agree with you that Long Feng was in denial, but I have always operated under the (most likely incorrect) assumption that military men have to be a little more realistic about their prospects. Besides, once Long Feng was out of the way, they agreed to work out an invasion plan based on Sokka’s intel, so we can probably argue that the military wasn’t operating under the delusion that Ba Sing Se could never possibly fall. This raises an interesting question though why the military

[cont] never tried to wrestle control of the Earth King away from Long Feng. They could even present themselves to the people, who adore the Earth King, as trying to return power back to their leader, all the while making said leader their puppet (though that sounds oddly familiar, doesn’t it?). I wish we knew more about Long Feng. He was always the most interesting villain to me cause I never really understood him.

First of all, I want to call out that you correctly use “raises a question” instead of “begs the question.” That’s been a pet peeve of mine since I learned the difference. XD

But as far as the “Council of Five” General Dudes go, I think their own denial is on display right when the gAang meets the first of them:

General Sung: It is an honor to welcome you to the Outer Wall, young Avatar, but your help is not needed.

Aang: Not needed?

General Sung: Not needed. I have the situation under control. I assure you, the Fire Nation cannot penetrate this wall. Many have tried to break through it, but none have succeeded.

Toph: What about the Dragon of the West? He got in.

General Sung: Well- uh- technically, yes. But he was quickly expunged! Nevertheless, that is why the city is named Ba Sing Se. It's the Impenetrable City. They don't call it Na Sing Se. That means 'Penetrable City.'

And then later when his dumb Terra Team falls to Ty Lee and Mai:

General Sung: We're doomed!

Sokka: Get a hold of yourself, man!

General Sung: You're right. I'm sorry.

Toph: Maybe you'd like the Avatar's help now?

General Sung: Yes, please.

That pretty much summarizes the Generals’ view in a nutshell, IMO. Despite Iroh proving that their defenses are fallible, they really think they’re invincible. And when things get bad, they look to get bailed out- and then go back to the same over-confidence.

(I like to headcanon that the Earth King’s father was disastrously adventuresome in his attempts to fight the Fire Nation, and Long Feng’s taking over and implementing an isolationist strategy was seen as a relief by all involved, even including his keeping the Earth King in ignorance of the war through his childhood- until things got creepy with the ‘No War in Ba Sing Se’ and the Earth King still being kept ignorant after growing up. But by then, Long Feng was fully in control.)

As for the Generals implementing Sokka’s invasion plan, it’s possible they have enough patriotism that when the opportunity presents itself, they’re willing to help out the rest of the country by taking direct action in the war. Perhaps they were also persuaded by Long Feng having fallen. It’s also possible they’re only doing it because the Earth King gave them orders, and whatever their personal feelings, they will honor all commands from their liege. Maybe the Avatar’s support makes it doubly-important that they abandon their preferred tactics. And I do have to acknowledge that maybe some of the Generals were itching to fight back. I’m referring to them collectively, but they are individuals and likely had individual agendas. But I figure the isolationist approach was what was winning the day.

But whether or not I’m right, I would love to know the specifics of how Long Feng maintained power in the years before Aang arrived. As we saw in the cartoon, the Dai Li can hit those Generals and capture them without any real opposition, so perhaps it was merely the threat of Dai Li action that kept them in line. Perhaps Long Feng also made a point of keeping the Earth King from meeting with his Generals directly, or at least not without heavy supervision. It’s possible the Generals also had families that were under threat by Long Feng.

I mean, even if they were okay with turtling their way through the Fire Nation’s invasion, I can’t imagine they liked the Earth King being ignorant of it. I figure the Dai Li itself was the main deterrent, but it would be cool to see exactly how Long Feng made them into such an omnipresent threat.

While we’re at it, I want to know Long Feng’s fate. But only if it means he gets to return in a cool story. If Azula just killed him, keep it quiet and let me keep using him in fanfic. ;)

#Anonymous

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visit-ba-sing-se · 4 years ago

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I am adding more onto 2.) because thinking about alternative universes is how I escape reality atm:

so book 2 and Azula and Zuko are kind of on team avatar (even though they obviously still have a lot of things to unlearn)

Aang is the first one to give them a hand because that is just how he is, and that turns out to be especially good for Azula (at first she is really sceptical and always assumes he is planning something/ expects something in return when he says something nice or does something supportive but eventually she kind of accepts that he is just a kind person who cares about her without demanding anything)

The Swamp episode but Zuko and Katara have a long talk because they both see their mother (Azula sees her father, looking at her in disappointment)

In occupied Omashu they still meet Mai

Mai gets a glimpse of Azula when she chases the “rebels” who attempted to attack her family during the first night there and is just like “was that...always doing everything to be firelord one day Azula? here? in the earth kingdom? Undercover??”

And Azula on the other hand gets excited and wants to get her for the team but then again is very aware of the possibility that Mai could just turn them all in since that is what they were raised to do, plus after everything that happend and especially the time with the gaang she realised that she was not really a good friend to Mai in the past)

Anyhow they kind of run into each other during the hostage trade and Azula is prepared for a great scene but Mai is just like “treason huh? Sounds more interesting than just sitting around with a straight face and I hate it here anyway. Are we getting Ty Lee, too?” (obviously they still have things to work through but now they have time and an environment that makes this possible)

Yes I also just want this so that Aang and Ty Lee can be friends and you may judge me but i am right

The Beifongs are not really affected by the earth kingdom being taken by fire nation, except for Toph`s wrestling matches being even more underground and illegal so Toph joins them like in canon

Mai and Toph bond about having to put up a facade to please your parents and finding relief in developing great fighting skills even though their kind of bonding mostly means training together and insulting people

Also Azula gets really mad about how Toph is treated by her parents (because how can they undermine her talent ?!?!? Why would you waste those skills ?!?!). This leads to her getting into an argument with Zuko when she claims that “Our father would never done that, he always made sure we trained our bending” and Zuko is like “Huh you mean like he kept pushing us to our limits and pitting us against each other? Because that also was not good for neither of us”

She runs off after that but Katara finds her obsessively training her bending and talks to her until she is ready to return and reconcile with Zuko (”look, I know big brothers who think they know everything can be annoying from time to time but in the end I think he is trying the best he can to protect you” “I know, and I think I also know that he is right. But if I admit that I have to give up on the image I have on my father, and on everything he made me out to. And then I don`t know how much will still be left of me”)

Anyhow they still head for Ba Sing Se which is under fire nation rule but the earth king is still there as their marionette and they hope to convince him to openly call his people to arms for an uprising during the day of the black sun

I am going to make a cut here because this got so long again but I have more stuff stored in my brain so...what if I shared that later....hahaha jk....unless...

How do you think the story would change if lu ten survived? His death seemed to be the starting point of a lot of major events in the series, so I'm curious as to how they might've changed (for worse or better, if they even happened at all) if he didn't die

Okay so I thought about this a lot and basically came up with 2 alternative universes. Starting point for both is the assumption that if you Ten had not died, Iroh would have continued the siege and emerged victorious, returning to the fire nation as the conqueror of Ba Sing Se (it is very important here that we have to keep in mind that this is not grand master of the white Lotus Iroh. This is “You should visit Ba Sing Se before I burn it to the ground Iroh.) Ozai, on the other hand, sees his chances to become fire lord being vaporised and decides to take action (in the from of poison in Iroh’s tea). From here, there are two alternatives:

1.) Ozai succeeds and becomes fire lord as planned. He still banished Zuko, who only now is accompanied by Lu Ten who refuses to believe the official story behind his fathers death (which was that Iroh had accidentally killed himself by making tea from a poisonous plant)

Zuko is hell bent on finding the avatar, Lu Ten the the older one and experienced soldier kind of acts as his impulse control

Lu Ten gets more and more suspicious about the circumstances of his fathers death, especially after meeting Zhao who drops some hints (since he is Zhao who you really should not entrust with things. Not even if you are fire lord. Especially not if you are fire lord)

It all falls into place for him when Zhao tries to have Zuko killed

This is in fact his “damn maybe the fire nation is not so great” moment

He has another of those moments during the siege on the north, where he sees Zuko who he sees as his little brother nearly killing himself just to please his cruel father

Also during this siege he is able to see all the pain and destruction meanwhile during the Siege on Ba Sing Se he basically just saw the glory for him, his father and his nation

Book 2 would of course be already more different due to the fact that Ba Sing Se already is fire nation territory but the sub plot for Lu Ten and Zuko would still be two royal fire nation kids learn that imperialism is bad

Lu Ten actually struggles a lot with the image of himself and his father which he has to completely revise but end of book 2 is ready and willing to make up for what he did and all the harm he caused (even though he knows that he never fully could)

He decides to fight the fire nation now openly and asks Zuko to side with him, but Zuko decides to return home with Azula instead

Book three kind of stays the same, Lu Ten escapes to find the masters of the white lotus who he had picked something up about during his travels now more then determined than ever to fight

He eventually helps to free Ba Sing Se (”I cannot make up for what I did here in the past, but I can fight to give these people back their future)

2.) Ozai fails and is found out. He is either executed for his crimes or dies after a dramatic Agni Kai against Iroh. Iroh shows the rest of his family mercy, but of course the kids, especially the fire bending prodigy Azula, are a burden. So he offers them a way to restore their and there fathers honour: bringing him the Avatar

Of course both would be determined to do so (Zuko also probably still has a scar from when Lu Ten mockingly challenged Azula to an Agni over the same matter. Zuko stepped in for her, not because he did not trust in his sisters skills, but because he knew that Lu Ten had always had a tendency to cheat. His instincts proved to be right)

It would take them a while but they would actually grow closer to each other during their search since Ozai would not be there to push them against each other anymore

Zuko still tries to protect his younger sister as well as he can (from the knowledge of what their mission truly means, from the people they encounter and the hopelessness that just increases more and more. Prodigy or not, she is his little sister, and some things are bad and can’t be fought with bending, not even lightning)

Azula on the other hand has sworn to end this mission successfully and afterwards make Zuko the next fire lord instead of Lu Ten

I feel like under this circumstances their tipping point for “maybe the fire nation sucks” would come quite early, for Zuko it would probably be Zhao blowing up their ship with Azula still on it (”they say we are without honour and they are the honourable ones, but how much honour can a man have who can’t even look the girl he wants to murder in the eye when he does?). For Azula it is when Zuko nearly dies during the siege on the north (he had held onto the mission despite not believing in it any more until then since he knew how much it meant to her and how important it was to have a goal to focus on and a hope to kling to)

Which leads to a very awkward “yeah we were chasing you before but we are just unlearning everything we got indoctrinated with and want to be good now so...can we join your team maybe?” either of the end of book 1 or beginning of book 2 (I feel like they would probably fight everyone before making that announcement. Azula bends lightning into a tree just to use the moment of surprise to talk)

After some back and forth, the gaang accepts them in

Iroh might not be planning to use Sozin’ comet the way Ozai did but someone still had to kick the fire nation out of the earth kingdom so the quest goes on but I am really unsure on how expect for that Mai and Ty Lee should be involved

Maybe Iroh can be reasoned with after meeting the actual avatar?Or after seeing his own niece and nephew turning against their own nation so fiercely? Or maybe he just becomes the fire lord he was meant to be after his father and loses all traces of good qualities he had along the way

Of course way more theories are of course possible but I found those two quite interesting and I hope you did, too, lovely anon!

#lu ten lives au #zuko #azula

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