#too much of a lore nut to let the discrepancy go

[haven-gum-rockrose]

Why does Verlaine have to exist- I want wizard Chuuya so bad. Let me spoil my little guy

[zombiequincy]

Headcanon: Gory Details and All - What do Giselle’s Zombie’s actually want from her and how does her blood affect them?

So this is going to be something of a very LONG and very rambly theory post combined into a headcanon because I doubt we’re ever going to receive any sort of canon explanation for this but it is interesting to consider perhaps the further ramifications of how Giselle’s blood effects the people she zombifies, looking more closely this time at their own state of mind and how they are effected by it rather than just Giselle’s own understanding of her powers (because in that regard it probably be as simplistic as ‘ahahah zombie making machine go brrr--’)

For starters, it’s important to note that none of the high ranking officers (i.e. people who Giselle zombified while they were still alive) never once turned to Giselle and beg her or talk to her or really even communicate with her, unless it’s the follow her orders and have a much lower sort of mental awareness and than her other zombies (at least in regards to Toshiro who is almost completely silent in his fight against Mayuri). The only one who does actually look at Giselle, and either ‘defies’ her or asks her for something, is Bambi. And while she never clarifies what exactly she wants from Giselle, it’s pretty obvious that the item of her want is Giselle’s blood (I think even CFYOW confirms this).

So here we have this this slight discrepancy, between how the blood effects those who are living and those who are dead. I’ve written in some threads already how it’s more like an instinctual call to action that Giselle’s blood possesses within her zombies rather than a verbal or actual soul binding ability and I still think that’s true for the most part. Seeing as it can be reversed with the excess of poisons and toxins of Mayuri (if the subject in question is still alive) that suggests it is still very much a physical power that cannot simply be strong armed or broken through will alone but requires some sort of bodily intervention to circumvent, hence why we see no characters fighting back or ‘breaking her spell’. HOWEVER, should be noted that the living members of Squad 11 did have some semblance of understanding of what was happening to their bodies when they were being commanded by Giselle to kill themselves and one another and they were begging (and failing) to fight back against her in that regard.

(Lets all strum a song on the worlds smallest violin for these poor folks)

So maybe it has to do with just exactly how ‘alive’ her zombies are when she turns them. When you’re a fully still alive, and you are infected, you’re still ‘yourself’ but you can’t control anything your body does and you are painfully aware of this, up until you are told to die. How fun! (Though what constitutes as being alive gets pretty strange because for Kensei and Rose, it’s described that Giselle came across their ‘corpses’ but then we go down a rabbit hole of vagueness in what constitutes actually being ‘dead’ and by Soul Society standards, I think it means when your spiritual pressure is completely eradicated. So they were technically ‘dead’ but maybe still physically alive enough that Giselle could turn them. In human terms I can imagine it’s sort of like how your heart can stop beating and you’re declared ‘dead’ but your brain still function so you’re still alive in some sense? This is the one part I’m not super certain of so please feel free to correct me on it!)

Going back to the body and will power thing, Mayuri notes that the living zombies have no trace of any personality, not like Bambi where it’s almost the inverse of how she acted when she was alive, but they just don’t make any demands or beg or act out of line or cry or feel fear, they are completely void of any free will. Giselle explains this as being down to when you turn somebody before they die, their mind still dies in the process so it’s easier to control them.  

And while this is grim and the reasoning and rationale is a little bit... off (I admit I’m not an expert on brain death in the body and whether what shes saying makes even a lick of rational or objective sense), I think it shows that Giselle’s blood has more of an effect on the instinct and bodily nature of the people she controls rather than like, a little voice in their head or an actual manipulation of their way of thinking and understanding. At least until we go into how it effects Bambi.

Now I want to go more into the nuts and bolts of the actual actions of the zombies and see if that can tell us a bit more about what her blood does to them on a mental level.

Again, we’re going to have to discern it from the living and the dead, and when looking at the living, it doesn’t seem like it does a whole lot other than complete autonomous control over their actions and abilities. (WHICH GRANTED SEEMS LIKE A LOT, but I’m thinking more in the realm of their reactions and personality and this idea of free will). The living zombies have none, but her undead zombies, or singular, zombie, Bambi does. (Also a fun little titbit, Giselle is noted in CFYOW as refusing to keep any of her undead zombies around, with Bambi being the singular exception. So she really is the only one who is effected like this! Isn’t that fun?)

A theory that might be plausible is the idea that her blood can heal, but I don’t think the healing factor is really one with much validity considering a lot of her zombies get bruised and beaten and battered despite being under her possession and Giselle heals them using her preferred method that I like to call ‘well they aren’t using it anymore so finders keepers!’ in which she steals body parts of others, breaks down the flesh and reforms it, we see her do this twice, once for Candice and once for Bambi. Although when healing herself, she seems to want her own blood back rather than just dead bodies to use, which makes it more likely that the healing benefits do more for her than they do for her zombies, so healing qualities for her zombies can be out of the equation here.

Well, what about embalming? Maybe her blood is more of a preservative than a simple healing tool! That might be true, but I can’t really confirm or deny it based on the evidence considering that we don’t really see much of her zombies rotting and needing her blood in that regard, bUT the inverse is also true. We don’t see them rotting full stop, so that might hint that it is an embalming fluid of sorts because it’s stopped the decay of their bodies! Could be either or, this is probably going to come up in a crack thread or headcanon about her working as a mortician so we don’t need to consider it super deeply until then.

Now, for how her blood effects her undead zombies on a mental level. I’d say it functions as a sort of addictive drug of sorts, though it is hard to discern to what sort of level because we only see it affecting Bambi, but her dynamic with Giselle still does show us a lot. Pursuing from the canon manga interactions Giselle has with Bambi as well as some very bare bones translations of the CFYOW novel, Bambi’s entire feisty and cruel personality is gone, replaced instead with a subservient almost dazed and blank canvas of a personality that only responds to Giselle’s commands. Bambi can still feel her emotions though, she can still fear for her life and call out for her comrades, still recall moments of her past with a strange sort of joy as well, express some sort of delight at Giselle giving her attention but all of these are almost entirely antithetical to the Bambi we know from earlier scenes. And all of them, especially her eagerness and willingness to do Giselle’s bidding, is always undercut by the desire to get more blood from Giselle.

I think the closest analogy would be that it’s similar to the bond a vampire has with their familiar or ghoul, which generally is someone who feeds on the blood of their master and from that point is basically possessed to do all their dark bidding and is constantly needy and demanding for more and more of their evil undead blood. Another good comparison might be the ‘healing blood’ from the Bloodborne lore, which is described as being intoxicating and giving people who drink it great powers, though if you drink too much of it, you risk losing all of your humanity and turning into a beast that needs to be killed. 

On the last point, (god help you if you read all this rambling) I think that point about gifting the person with ‘great powers’ I do think there is an element of Giselle’s powers which allows her victims to act very much without restraint and unbridled with any concerns or worries that they might typically carry when alive and constantly thinking through the ramifications of what they’re doing, who they’re hurting and why they’re attacking. To have these stripped away, and replaced with just a guttural instinct to only listen to commands and obey. It runs the risk of curing you in one sense, but also turning you into a mindless beast in another.

[hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger]

Absolute Carnage vs. Deadpool #1, Venom vol. 4 #17, Absolute Carnage: Lethal Protectors #1, Absolute Carnage: Miles Morales #1 Thoughts

I’m trying very hard to both cover Absolute Carnage in reading order and also not bog down said coverage of the tie ins, i’m hoping to give the main book and ASM tie-ins my full attention but for all the other ones handle them less comprehensively. Obviously that depends upon their respective content.

The Deadpool issue had great art, funny dialogue, a brisk pace, some clever moments and a refreshing acknowledgment that the Peter/Wade dynamic is stupid. 

Having Carnage acknowledge Deadpool as the motherload of codexes because of his bonding with the 4 Life Foundation symbiotes (a.k.a. also collectively referred to as the Hybrid symbiote) from Wade and Kasady’s last encounter was a great use of continuity. My hope is the lack of acknowledgement of his time with the Venom symbiote (see Deadpool’s Secret Secret War and Deadpool: Back in Black) confirms that those stories are not to be taken seriously as canon, at least as far as Spidey or Venom continuity is concerned.

The only real problem is that, whilst the start of the story technically precedes Absolute Carnage, when we get to the symbiote stuff it happens during Absolute Carnage #2 and thus really is best read after that comic as it does give a few minor spoilers for it.

Venom #17 was fantastic!

Now, as I said in my Absolute Carnage #2 post, the plotting is out of whack. Venom #17 should be read BEFORE Absolute Carnage #2!

The story itself, whilst basic, is effective. The Maker is as morally grey (or flexible if you like, get it!) as ever. Dylan is characterized well, believable as the son of Eddie Brock. Normie is underserved but this isn’t his story. Something that did bug me though is that the art depicts them as probably about the same age with Dylan dominating their dynamic. But really Dylan should be younger. Dylan was born between Venom Along Came a Spider (1996) and Anne Weying’s death in like 2000 or 2001. Normie meanwhile was born in the mid-1980s!

That’s a small complaint though and easily No. Prized.

Now as for the rest of the comic Cates pulls off a masterstroke in how he’s structured this event, at least in relation to the Venom book.

Absolute Carnage seems set to be the book where all the thrust of the story happens, that’s where you go to see Carnage and I suspect going forward where you will go to follow Brock/Venom. Meanwhile the actual Venom book is going to be following Dylan, who’s been adequately built up by this point. It helps make the Venom book relevant but not demand that you go other the same events twice or ping pong between it and Absolute Carnage to see the next part of the story, it’s happening adjacent  to the main events but it’s also not a meaningless side quest!

There is also a lot of great use of established continuity in this book. Venom himself might not be in it much, but his LEGACY is. Dylan is his son (and remember he’s as much the son of the symbiote as he is Anne and Eddie) and so are the Life Foundation symbiotes. The Sleeper symbiote also shows up.

I confess I’m only vaguely familiar with Sleeper because I didn’t read Venom: First Host but I believe he’s strongly connected to Venom’s past, I think he is maybe literally the first host of the Venom symbiote.

There is also an interesting angle in this story because the lead is Dylan, the sidekick if you will is Normie and the antagonists are the family from Separation Anxiety, 2 of which are also little kids. I hope this factors in somehow as it seems there is a theme of family underlying this corner of the event! You could even extend that to Normie as the theme of family, especially dysfunctional family, is very relevant to the Osborns and is obviously now relevant to Venom/Brock’s immediate ‘family’ as well as the Separation Anxiety nuclear family.

The ar is also stellar. It’s not Stegman good but it’s still beautiful eye candy and looks enough like Stegman that the change isn’t jarring. I’m very happy Coello did the War of the Realms tie-ins as a taster and ‘warm up’ for this in fact.

Just great, I’m loving this one!

Lethal Protectors #1 was one of the tests for me about the strength of this event.

See of all the tie-ins this was the one I was least interested in. I don’t hate Cloak, Dagger, Iron Fist or Morbius, but I’m also fairly indifferent to them. I only liked Morbius in the 1994 cartoon (though I hear his 90s stories were quite good) and to me Iron Fist is dull outside of when he’s hanging out with Luke Cage.

So I checked this out but only out of a desire to be a completist.

I was fully braced for this issue to be what derailed the event’s thus far strong batting average.

Nope.

Even this issue delivered.

Granted it also kind of DIDN’T deliver since the cover characters aren’t even mentioned at all. Instead the closest thing to a protagonist is Misty Knight. Now I have no hate for Misty Knight but to my recollection her connection to the symbiotes began only in the Web of Venom: Cult of Carnage issue that this continues off from. I suppose having a vibranium arm makes her an obvious combatant against symbiotes, but she’s got less connection to the lore. She seems more like the vehicle to introduce the above mentioned ‘lethal protectors’ into the story. And I guess that’s fine but either include her on the cover or feature the title characters in the issue.

That’s mostly a nitpick though, the rest of the issue is great. More fun violent horror stuff with a creepy romance added on for good measure in the form of Carnage and Shriek’s toxic relationship.

The reintroduction of Demo/Demagoblin was interesting. I knew it was coming and I knew it would be a new female version but the fact that it was Shriek took me by surprise, I was sure it was going to be Lily Hollister a.k.a. Menace. Truth be told I’m disappointed it wasn’t as that would’ve been an organic use of a pre-established character and wouldn’t have swapped out Shriek (who is also very interesting) for Demagoblin.

It’s not a BAD direction but I’d have preferred the Carnage family from Maximum Carnage be reassembled differently. But seeing Demagoblin and Carnage make out is delightful in how over the top nuts it is!

They mention reintroducing Carrion and I really, really hope that happens!

The art, whilst not being as good as in other tie-ins is still doing a solid job!

Much like the other tie-ins this series is opening up a new front in this event and exploring it quite well thus far, so I’d recommend this too!

And as a plus they remember to tell you when this happens in relation to the main event book.

Miles Morales sadly...was the first slip up in this event.

Now I’ve made my criticisms of Miles (in the comics) vocal before and I don’t want to sit here and tell you this issue sucked shit or it was bad because Miles was bland in it. To be honest MOST of the protagonists of Absolute Carnage are fairly bland. Miles for instance was a knotch more interesting than Misty Knight.

In fact I wouldn’t call this issue BAD at all.

There were just some things wrong with it.

The most noticeable of these was how the events depicted towards the end don’t quite jive with the end of Absolute Carnage #2. If you just wrote them down on paper they would seem to. Miles and Scorpion are fighting Carnage cultists, Carnage/Osborn is there in charge, Scorpion breaks away from the fray, Venom shows up, Miles stands alone but is overwhelmed, he is taken over by the symbiotes.

However when you compare the art and dialogue of the two comics there are a number of discrepancies which is annoying because up until now you could make everything fit together one way or another.

Among the discrepancies, and this is a nitpick, is that the Carnage cultists are wearing their Ravencroft uniforms, which IIRC they don’t do in any other appearance. A more contrived aspect to them though is Gargan recognizing the tattoo of one of them. How? They are all covered head to toe in symbiote their tattoo’s would be obscured!

I also didn’t like how the Carnage Cultists were treated as so disposable. My impression was they each have a bona fide symbiote bonded to them so would be on a similar power level to Venom at least, so Scorpion impaling them wouldn’t be a big deal, they could heal from that. But they come off more as just super strong zombies, and not even as strong as Venom at that.

Grant that’s an issue perhaps with the event as a whole but it was most noticeable here.

The other problem with this book is that half of it is little more than a standard superhero fights super villain yarn until halfway through when it abruptly becomes an Absolute Carnage tie-in. It even kind of does that at the very start of the issue where the recap page randomly interrupts the story in progress for no reason, putting it ahead of the first page wouldn’t have spoiled anything.

It seems like a waste especially since the cliffhanger is identical to the cliffhanger of Absolute Carnage #2, it doesn’t progress the story at all it simply provides some preamble and not particular plot relevant preamble at that. It’s not that difficult to deduce Miles was probably fighting Scorpion before they were attacked.

What’s even more annoying, but not a problem with this book per se, is that the comic discloses that this should be read after Absolute Carnage #2 but similar disclaimers weren’t made for other tie-in issues. I don’t even think reading this between AC #1 and #2 would make much difference. There aren’t any spoilers for AC #2 because it simply depicts the same events regarding Miles in greater detail.

My final problem with the issue is one that’s more a problem with Miles in general regarding his status in the 616 universe. Let’s put aside how it inherently undermines the character for a moment, the recap page alone shows you how problematic it is to have him migrate to Earth 616. The blurb summarizing Miles’ backstory has to be so ridiculously generalized and use dialogue implying he might be from another universe but could equally be taken as poetic hyperbole. I don’t blame Ahmed, I even sympathize that he kind of HAS to write it that way. It’s just stupid is all and undermines the emotional resonance of Ultimate Venom being associated with the death of Miles’ mother. But then again DID she even die now? See what a mess this is?

I don’t want this to sound like this issue was terrible, it wasn’t it was just okay at best though sans the art. Absolute Carnage has thus far had good to great art and this issue is no exception.

As a standard Spidey v. Scorpion rumble goes this was fine, it was fun and got the job done, standard superheroics so I can’t complain too much. The only contentious part was Miles’ ineffective Venom Blast.

It didn’t work because Scorpion’s suit was insulated.

This is a double edged sword when it comes to analysis.

On the one hand that is inconsistent with the Venom Blast’s established power. It can work against electrical powered foes like Electro AND extremely powerful demonic beings like Blackheart. But you telling me some rubber lining enables Scorpion to just shrug it off? Bullshit.

On the other hand though...Miles having a cheat code power like that has always been reductive to his character.

The final thing I have to say on the comic is that the editors weirdly hype up the issue. In other tie-ins they praise Ahmed for reinvigorating the Scorpion, for even making him scary and a straight up killer. Putting aside how he was a fucking cannibal in Thunderbolts and Dark Avengers, Ahmed honestly didn’t do anything like that.

Scorpion is a standard supervilalin who DGAF about innocent life or killing, he just wants to preserve his own life and make a payday. He lands some effective hits on Miles and is a threat but...there is nothing revolutionary or reinvigorating about it. It’s not tired and bad it’s just standard and effective that’s all.