#to clarify im at the end of s11

[sp3akfromtheart]

warning: opinions on 13th doctor era

[hiddensneker]

For the jay being conceived to do it. Alright yeah I can kind of see it. But jay has been friends with the ninja for god knows how long. Like 10 years now. So it would kind of a lot to turn jay completely agaisnt his friends. I think elementalmasterofrandomness said that said that they think libber could convince jay into doing it. Which I think would be a good concept to run off of, even if I don’t think evil jay is exactly the route it should end on. Probably like jay going semi evil but then realizing “whoops my mom sucks lol” and going back to the ninja would be more compelling in my personal opinion. It would address jays insecurities and take a moment to reflect on the WHOLE TEAM including jay then just narrowing in on the affect jay has.

Also Zane did have a bit of a motive or conflict that I think kind of sets up ice emperor and that’s his conflict with being human and being robot. While it’s not especially said until s11, you can definitely see some hints of it as the series goes on

And I never said people can’t have fun, I just said I don’t understand it. I even clarified that the only part of it that I’m genuinely not buying even for a second is the Nya part because again. I think it’s mysognistic ((mostly trying to imply that if the writers themselves are hinting that then it’s certainly misogynistic)). I don’t see the motive behind it for the reasons I stated. I’m sorry if my wording was a bit vague ((adhd issue dw about it)) but I was trying my best to say “hey I don’t want to ruin anyone’s fun but I don’t see these things working out in the show”. I even say “I’m sure evil jay can work in fanon, but right now this ain’t it” trying to imply that while these concepts are great in these peoples own fanseasons fics and extra. But in the context of the SHOW which these predictions are trying to imply will happen in the SHOW it just won’t work story wise. In fanon I fully support discarding whatever you want for the sake of angst, it’s your work do whatever. But in show doing things for the sake of angst and not really understanding characters or there motives will kind of well.. undermined them. Which I was trying to say. Now I’m not saying all these ideas are undermining jays character because there angst. But what I am trying to say is that angst shouldn’t be the only reason characters do something in a SHOW, not fanon, SHOW.

Im not ever trying to imply people can’t be creative, or have fun, or make theories. Please do not assume that is the type of person I am or accusing me of trying to do so. Or if you do atleast just don’t accuse me of that in front of other people, it’s kind of embarrassing, and while I don’t want to accuse you of doing that on purpose because I know you didn’t. Your not the type of person to do that. It’s really not fun to have that happen. Like I said in the original post. I’m open to have people rebuttal me for why it might work and I’m interested in hearing it. I know why it kind of sucks to have people not understand why your passionate about something. So that’s why I tried to encourage people to give me there reasons if they have any.

Am I the only one like genuinely confused on evil jay. Like I don’t want to sound rude but his motivations don’t make much sense. Like 2 lines about Kai being a bit of a jerk isn’t really enough to impact jay as an entire character to go evil. And I don’t really see what his plan would be.

To be with Nya? Well he’s already with her. To have power? Well we already have two plots regarding ninja going evil because of power in staffs, seems a bit tedious to do it again especially when it’s only been 2 seasons since s11. To be respected? I’m sorry but jay getting turned evil by an obviously evil staff even though he knows touching obviously evil staffs from obviously evil people is a bad idea, it will just make him look like a bit of a idiot then anything intimidating. To be admired? Dude has an entire cult and is decently respected by the ninja, like yeha sometimes they make jokes at his expense, but they genuinely listen to him and they respect the things he build like the bounty and such, unlike Kai who’s accomplishments are always being squashed by someone else taking the credit or wu being an asshole. Is it because Nya didn’t say “I love you” wow that’s a really dumb reason and kind of misogynistic. Women don’t owe any man that phrase. And it’s not like Nya doesn’t like jay, because they very obviously love eachother.

“But there’s going to be a relationship problem with jay and Nya, which means he has to be evil”. May I remind you who’s on the poster for the ten year anniversary, you know the year that these seasons are coming out.

Also do you guys honestly expect evil jay, who’s only motive so far is two lines Kai said, to continue being evil for an entire special and two seasons???

It’s cool what idea is coming from it. But making jay evil because of “you want angst” is kind of undermining his entire character just a tiny bit. Im sure evil jay can work in fanon, but right now this ain’t it 😔

This post isn’t ment to be passive aggressive at all. I just genuinely don’t see how evil jay can work in the story, if you guys have any rebuttals for why this can work then I’d be interested in hearing it. But I’m not convinced at the few points I’ve seen. My only big gripe with this concept is the “Nya doesn’t say I love you” thing which is like... nooo... that reason completely destroys the respect in the relationship and makes jay seem like a nice guy.

[elizabethrobertajones]

Hey you, during the course of this season i Have seen more and more people leave the fandom or grow disinterested in spn, and im confused why that it. I get why maybe s12 wouldnt be a fave season but if I look at the wank and bads of the previous ones (destiel fiasco in/out the show s9, charlies death Dean cruelty to Cas in s10, Dean/baby love interest s11) s12 didnt really do much that would drive people away en masse I feel? Yet it seems like more people left it :(

Heya! :D

Idk, maybe it was that more vocal people drifted off? I always feel like people’s attention spans are usually only a few years or so. I mean, I feel like I’ve been in the fandom a Long Time and I’ve only been here since the end of season 9, so really this is only my 3rd hiatus, and coming up to 4th year watching with fandom, on a 12 year show I’ve been watching for nearly 10 years, for the most part as a moderately casual viewer… I think I clock up about 5 years major interest and then drift, based on me vs several other things like how invested I was in LotR or Harry Potter or Animorphs, or whatever (to go back in time to my pre-teen interests :P) and it’s not a bad thing and I still love 2 of those franchises and have engagement in them but back to being a casual fan (if “religiously watches LotR at Christmas” is casual allowing for cultural/social stuff, but I’m not composing Legolas/Aragon smut in my teenage journal in secret code any more :P) 

Anyway the season 8 bubble of fandom could be deflating about now - that’s long enough for people to feel they’ve given the show their full attention and it’s still going so it’s getting tiring. That’s the major feeling I get - people are exhausted and we had a baby boomer fandom around season 8 so that ~generation~ of fans is now reaching the natural end of its attention span in a very human natural way. But there’s a ton of new or newer fans who are still enjoying the heck out of it, and the fandom’s still huge and full of people with a commitment to the show or ships. And some people don’t work like that and are loyal from start to finish or commit to TV shows fully to see them to their end. I would dump a show I was getting bored of but come back to watch the end later in a big marathon to find out what happened, but Supernatural hasn’t given me a reason to get totally un-invested until that time… I suspect a lot of people will watch the entire show ONE DAY but don’t want to do fandom and give it all their leisure time any more either.

[under a cut for meandering rambling]

But yeah I think you’ve named some pretty big mass exodus moments (I would like to clarify “Dean/baby” is “Dean/Amara-as-an-infant” right? Because Dean/Baby totally was a thing in 11x04 and it was GLORIOUS :P) and I feel like I DID lose people from my dash all through the time I’ve been watching. Heck, I hit up fandom right after 9x18, and started following people, and that was the JIB of “we don’t play it that way” so I immediately was following several abandoned blogs and I’d barely even started to get to know the landscape :P I feel like people HAVE been jumping ship the entire time and I remember most of those instances as sadly clearing several favourite people off my dash or turning them into different fandom blogs that I eventually unfollowed out of confusion… 

I don’t know, I think people leave when they want to leave because as long as you like the core of a thing and it holds your interest, you can forgive or ignore or scowl at but hold out for better the bad bits and problematic parts. I’m sort of weary of them killing all the women and PoC but I’m still at the stage where I identify it sucks, but I still care too much about the main characters that I’m sort of stuck on this ride with them. 

(I have 2x21 paused on the screen next to me right as Sam meets all the special children, aka introducing Lily the lesbian who dies horribly as a disposable red shirt to show how awful this situation is, and Jake, a black guy whose power is being super strong and to fall to Azazel’s manipulation, kill Sam, and then get killed with extreme overkill by Sam. In the same season he set the cops on Gordon, also a black man who was really aggro and cruel, but in the next season becomes a monster and Sam kills him also one of the most brutal kills he has up there with Jake. Basically, the show’s always had some issues and if we carried on watching all the way to season 12, well, apply self-reflection, but at this point if you’ve been watching as long as I have, you just kind of accept the show sucks at certain things, and for ME personally it’s not kicking off the sort of weariness that others felt about Billie and Alicia and Eileen being killed off this season)

… I don’t really have a point, expect about the demographics of fandom during season 8 getting to the end of their interest now. I don’t think EVERYONE who did will leave, and we’re getting fresh blood all the time, but I think that’s just part of the nature of being in fandom. I don’t think season 12 is particularly bad from my experience, although some pretty high profile bloggers have gotten exhausted - again, they’ve been maintaining blogs and producing content since single digit seasons so they’ve contributed a LOT to the fandom and there’s a fatigue about contribution as well… 

That’s partially why I meta and gif and write fic and occasionally make random shitposts… I don’t want to burn out because any one of those things on its own can get pretty boring, even writing fic. Or especially, idk, as a writer I tend to bounce around projects, so this is keeping me weirdly focused on writing my original fiction on one side of my brain and fan fic on the other and it seems to be a better way of splitting my attention… But I digress. :P 

I know how to manage my own brain to some degree but I have a lot of time to contemplate and self-reflect on why I’m in fandom and what I get out of it, and mostly I just conclude I’m bored and house-bound and I’ve found a few tried and tested things that get me some positive attention in a non-weird rat with a pleasure button way like people running hate blogs or something… But I know my own head and that I can get bored of stuff so I marathon a lot of other shows and think about other things than fandom stuff as much as possible and just let this be the gutter my brain drains into when my attention span is too shot to hell to do anything else and I just want to slump over a keyboard and do the easiest activity I know bar playing Animal Crossing for hours. 

Other people with busier lives and actual jobs and energy and limbs that don’t just randomly stop working when they do anything for more than 5 minutes and so on might not be casual fans but they make a certain space in their life for fandom and get out of it what they need but it’s a high quality demand thing so if their carefully allocated me-time isn’t rewarding them like it should it’s totally their right to go find another OTP to amuse themselves with a fandom producing stuff they want to see and a media source that’s giving them what they want immediately and in a way they don’t have to “look for scraps” as some people were saying about Destiel in season 9, 10 and 11 while things were thinner on the ground.

And as one of the too-much-free-time fandom contributors, I’ve got an enormous luxury to stick out things people who don’t have time for being jerked around or over-analysing to find what they want to see have… Although I’ll try and pass on my thoughts for the people with less time to think them to try and help them enjoy themselves as much as possible :P Anyway I think a whole range of reasons happen that people might get fatigued of the show especially as lives change and people blogging enthusiastically one day might get a job or a new relationship or a dog or SOMETHING and just not spend quite so much time online and then discover they don’t NEED to spend so much time on fandom, and drift naturally… Then try and find some reason on the show they’ve stopped watching, but often it’s just that things look worse after time away when the spark has started to fade because it’s not being nurtured in the same way any more. 

And 12 years is a LONG ASS TIME to be invested in something, so I think in general the fatigue or changing interests is all over the place and we might see it more and more as people drift… People who might watch it all as a catch up one day maybe a year or two after the show ends, but just don’t have the patience to stay in fandom and put in that energy over and over and over. 

Also the show is in a really weird place where it has some of the best writers it’s ever had in Berens and the newbie writers, and Dabb’s doing some fascinating things with the plot, but Buckleming are the executors of the story, in several interpretations of that phrase :P And there are people who skip MotW and find them unimportant or would judge the season on the plot, not the heart of the story… It’s a pretty precarious place, quality-wise. I think season 11 and 12 are a proper like, silver age revival of the MotW (with Nancy Won and Robbie giving last season a massive boost) where I think those episodes are really innovative and interesting, and the writers are being allowed a lot of freedom to play on THOSE canvases, but while the character development and *reasons* for the story have been fascinating and important, obviously 5 of the plot episodes this latest season were Buckleming and crucial to watch to know wtf was going on, even though the writers of those episodes seem to have such a terrible problem with hating the audience (literally, it’s in their scripts and off-screen comments), the genre, second drafts, common human decency towards characters and understanding why they’re important, pacing, you name it… :P So the show literally has 2 faces these days and depending on which one you see when you think of season 12, probably defines how you feel about the show as a whole and all that. I treat the plot episodes these days as a necessary evil between episodes written by people who actually like the show and care about it and its characters (see also: my non-stop sobbing about 12x22 since it aired)… But seeing the other face can really cast a cloud over the show and I’ve seen it make people wonder why the other writers even try. (I mean Perez did an incredible salvage job on Crowley in 12x15 only for it to immediately get yanked away again the next time BL wrote him and I think only they really got to play with him for the rest of the season, meaning all that work to make it seem important and thematically relevant that Perez had set up in 12x12 and messed with in 12x15 ended up being for nothing and Dabb had no time to do anything deep with Crowley, because 12x13 turns out to be the big Crowley & Rowena farewell episode, except for how it flubbed the entire premise of Grand Send Off Episode a la 7x10 or something despite all the ingredients being there…)

I am just rambling now so… Gonna hit post. Hope this makes sense :P This is just my interpretation of how people are feeling/how fandom as an entity seems to work, so it’s pretty subjective and others might feel very differently especially people who have been in negative echo chambers while I’ve built myself a reasonably positive one plus SENSIBLE and CONSTRUCTIVE wanky criticism that doesn’t go off the deep end :P