#though its more in the vain of taking a critical lens than bashing

[animerunner]

Hot Take: Epic is (slightly) improved if the themes weren't about learning to be ruthless, but about learning to be merciless. With the answer being whether or not you were justified in your actions and if you feel regret about them.

Odysseus learning he could never be FULLY ruthless because he does regret having to do most the things he did. For many of his actions, there's no true justification (actions during the war, throwing the baby off the tower, putting his crew in danger by doxxing himself to Polyphemus, sacrificing his crew to Scylla, etc.) and he regrets that he did them and that the choices he made on this journey and the desperation to see his family pushed him to do things he might not normally do. He can be merciless (as with the suitors), but he can never truly be ruthless. And the biggest proof being the final song "Would You Fall in Love With Me Again", where he admits his guilt and regrets and asks if Penelope can still love him.

Honestly, I think THAT would have been a more interesting Odyssey retelling than canon Epic.

TLDR: Jorge should have just full on wholesaled Odysseus being a monster. Rather then occasionally trying to prop him up. And I know one of the songs is popular but really in the terms of story beats we've covered all of that songs story before.

That's actually a fair take. Ruthlessness is one of the songs I still like after all this shit is said and done. I think part of my issue is especially with the later parts it feels like Jorge was still trying to play him up as a hero. Especially by adding Hold Them Down which has threats that the original didn't.

Like I think if we leaned full tilt into it I think I would have liked it more in the latter sagas. Because I was a fan originally. But it still felt like we were trying to justify the monsterous stuff at times (particularly adding the Penelope thing in). And in some cases it makes sense. Especially against the crew.

(Though I could have a whole discussion about issues with the crews writing and in general Jorges choices when it comes to other characters. To try and prop Odysseus at the expense of them.)

Like I think I would still have issues with it overall. (ie: The more I think about it the more I feel God Games needed to be its own saga. Because that would have sold Athenas actions better. Rather then it coming at the end of Wisdom with her sharing screen with Telemachus.) But I know some of my issues with it go back to choices with Ithaca.

Like I know Hold Them Down has a purpose but really Little Wolf and the end of Legendary did an effective job of selling how bad the suitors were. So it feels a bit over the top and trying to sell Odysseus still being the hero in some ways without saying it.

And like I said you've got the point with the suitors across already. So the song feels more like clutter. Not bad sounding clutter to be clear. Just that we've already communicated this before. And you could have Odysseus finding this out within his song.