#though i'd like to know how this is affecting the present in a time paradox sense? solomon mentioned it but like

[journey-to-the-attic]

Thoughts on the new game for Obey Me coming out and how it relates to IK?

(Sorry if I am super late to the party on this ask btw)

i played through a chunk of it today and it really exceeded my expectations in terms of story!! definitely has already outdone at least s3 + s4 in terms of character development. very curious in particular about barbatos' role in mc's time travel, and also his past self's beef with solomon

though i have two chief complaints - 1. the 3d models unnerve me (mostly in in the knockoff tiktok app and that one video call during the tutorial, where you see them and the really awkward expressions up close - it's not as bad from afar in the wanderer's whereabouts hangout things. speaking of the ww feature, i like the concept, but the harry potter reference does piss me off a little)

2. i HATE the remixes they use for the rhythm games. they sound so bad. please just use the original songs for the love of GOD

i'm also a little confused by solomon's role - i appreciate him being a lifeline, but he's weirdly blasé about the whole situation, and i can't tell if he's being written with his relationship with mc kind of out of focus, or if we're meant to be suspicious about it. also i would like to know more about what's going on in the present? wonder if there'll be any cutaways in hard mode that might tell us

ANYWAY all that aside, about ik!! i do confess i've already started thinking of how she'd cope in the same situation as mc, but there's a lot that we'd have to change about the situation - 1. ik can't do magic, so a lot of mc's feats are unaccomplishable for her, and 2. given the major size difference between demons and humans in jtta, it'd be very hard for anyone to mistake her for a demon

tbh one word for ik in this scenario: burnout. she's trying her best but the love of god can she not have a peaceful life

also (and this may be a little evil), honestly i don't think i'd give ik the present-solomon lifeline. i've got this sorta idea in my head of a different kind of lifeline, where ik's pact with the brothers and the sheer strength of their found family bond, plus the weird nature of time around her, means that every now and then, the present-brothers briefly snap into the minds of the past-brothers that ik's currently stuck with

the only thing i've done with this concept is the idea of present-lucifer briefly zapping into past-lucifer's consciousness, and comforting ik about how cold the past-brothers are with a hug - then midway through the hug, he gets booted out again and past-lucifer zaps back in. he just sort of finds himself holding that random human kid, and for some reason he just keeps hugging her. he's not sure why, he just feels like he has to...

idk what the exact set-up the devs were going for with the time jump, so i'll leave that to the theorists for now, but we could say that in the jtta version, ik needs to re-forge her pacts to be able to give out a strong enough magical signal across time for barbatos to get her back home

[inkblackorchid]

So I accidentally went down a rabbit hole on YouTube and long story short ended up on a video about time travel and I just wanted to say that your idea that the Emperors not being able to change the past enough to change their future is actually backed by actual time travel theory that says that no matter what changes you make, history will correct itself so the future ends up staying the same (this is how paradoxes are solved as well). So, uh, even if Paradox had succeeded, Duel Monsters would have continued somehow. Even if ZONE had succeeded in destroying the city, the apocalypse *still* would have happened. Which...depending on how you look at it could actually be depressing when you realize that that *could* mean that Yusei can't change that future either. (OR it could mean that he still can because he's not trying to change things via time travel. Like, this is still his future. If that makes sense.) Anyway. Just thought I'd throw that fun tidbit at you (provided you didn't know that already anyway 😅).

Oh, that's neat! I had no idea it was an actual, genuine part of time travel theory—I personally knew this method of handling time travel from a different piece of fiction and a couple of videos on the topic (from a writing perspective) on youtube, and it's probably my favourite way to handle the topic in general, because as interesting as devastating-butterfly-effect-risk-in-every-action time travel is, I just enjoy the internal consistency of people from the future not actually being able to affect the past. (There's also something to be said about the message it sends, of course. Something something "don't try to change the past by brute force, learn to accept the present and look towards the future, which is still open to you, instead".)

As for how this specific version of time travel would affect 5Ds, I think that depends on which school of thought, so to say, you belong to. As you said, there's two options here. Personally, I'd interpret it in the second way you suggested, meaning that the Emperors of Iliaster cannot change their future by going back to the past, but because the past is the present for Yusei and the others, they can change the future. (Of course, if you take this a step further, this would mean that the Iliaster "present" and Team 5Ds' future aren't actually the same thing, which, in turn, would suggest multiple timelines that are all self-contained and internally consistent, I think? This is the part where that method gets complicated.) But on a purely technical level, the more depressing option would also be internally consistent, in that the future stays ruined anyway, no matter what anyone does. Given the tone of 5Ds' ending, I'd go as far as saying that at least where the show is concerned, this isn't canon, though. (Which is not to say that anyone who might wish to write it in that manner shouldn't do so; please do.)

One way or another, I think it's a neat concept and it's interesting to hear that it's part of actual time travel theory.

[jullbnt]

@xxbuttercup I'm answering your comment this way cause my reply is way too long! Skyward isn't my fav but these Link and Zelda are still so cute, I'd love for them to be that close again in a future game 😊

For the time travel thing I was talking about all the incoherent stuff that happens with the Gates of Time, not the timeshift stones ^^ Buckle up cause this is probably going to be long and fastidious, but I'll do my best to explain myself clearly haha

So when you first arrive to the Sealed Temple at the beginning of the game, you can already see Zelda sleeping in her cristal through the door and old Impa has Zelda's bracelet on her wrist, even though you haven't yet witnessed Zelda sealing herself or giving her bracelet to Impa. That means whatever the characters are going to do in the distant past has already happened, and they only have to go through all of it again to prevent time paradoxes. That's a time loop, and though it's not the way I would write time travel let's say there's no problem with it as long as the story manages to stay coherent.

Now you remember that tree you need to plant in the past in order to bring a fruit to the Thunder Dragon? Well it only appears in the Sealed Temple if you've gone through this part of the game, which contradicts what I just said about this time loop thing. Link also leaves the Master Sword in the past after defeating Demise, but it is only visible in the cutscene at the end of the game. So now Link is doing these things "for the first time" and his actions affect the present/future??

That's illogical but I'll admit these are minor points. The HUGE problem with this whole story for me is that Link fights Demise in the past and then seals whatever remains of him in the Master Sword. I really don't understand how that can work even in a time loop, because if Link has killed Demise already (the same way Zelda is asleep from the beginning of the game) there can be no Imprisoned, and Link's quest now has no reason to happen in the future? Unless Demise and the Imprisoned are two different beings but I think that's clearly not the case.

To me there's no way this doesn't create a time paradox and a new timeline or something like that, but if anyone has another take on this I'll gladly discuss it!! It's been bothering me for years.

Now I'm going into headcanon territory, but the only way I can wrap my head around Skyward's story is by thinking there are two timelines at the end of the game: one where SS happens and Link uses the Triforce to destroy Demise, and one in which SS Link comes from the future and kills Demise before returning to his own time, opening a whole new future for Hyrule (that would also kinda make him the Hero of Time of that timeline, which is fun!!). There would still be a few problems like what happens to the Master Sword since Link would be leaving it in that new timeline, but it still makes more sense to me (and the Master Sword allows Link to travel through time in OoT and also goes to Zelda without any explanation in TotK, so it looks like it can do pretty much whatever it pleases with time).

I've been thinking about this new timeline thing a lot, especially with BotW/TotK not really fitting anywhere on the official timelines and ignoring existant lore (like what happened to the Triforce and the Golden Goddesses? Why does everything in Hyrule suddenly revolve around the Zonai??). So yeah, I don't know if anyone's with me on this, but I like the idea of a completely different timeline emerging because of Skyward Sword and maybe leading to BotW/TotK. The games have a lot of things in common (Hylia is everywhere, the springs from SS, the three dragons, the sky islands...) so I think it makes sense to connect them. Or at least I think that could be interesting and I've been working on this idea.

And that's it, I really hope this is understandable!!

Hello again :D I could be wrong, but I think Skyward Sword has the Zelink romance you're looking for! Or at least it's heavily implied!

Hello!! Oh yes Skyward Sword clearly has it and that’s what I love most about it!

The thing is, SS is one of my least favorites in the series :/

I found the game a bit tedious and the motion controls really made SS Link look like an idiot haha (especially after TP’s amazing combat). Also the time travels make no sense it drives me crazy!! I can elaborate on this point if anyone is interested but I will spare you this rant for now ^^

(I’ve been thinking about this lately because of a project I’m working on, and may have a few ideas to fix it. I’ll tell you more about it someday if I ever manage to make things coherent)

So to sum up yes I love SS Link and Zelda!! But I’m not nearly as obsessed with their game as I am with others ^^

Now if the question is "will I draw these two someday", the answer is definitely yes :))

(Also I think Zelink is implied in BotW/TotK as well, but they’re not my favorites either)