#this isn't charlie bashing btw!

[kiwibirbkat]

I rly hate the lack of Tori content

Like, I understand why most of the content is about Charlie and heartstopper because! There's more content there, and they have a TV show, and an ongoing plot, and like, Charlie is the main character, and he goes through a lot, so naturally he's going to be the main focus! But like...

Tori has a whole book about her. Not just her own book, but the first book. She's the first character in the Osmanverse. Every other character technically stemmed from her.

In that book, it is almost entirely about her depression, and her struggle, and her downward spiral, and-

Like. Charlie obviously has a lot of struggle. Obviously. But so does Tori, and I wish some people would get that? Like, I get some people haven't read Solitaire. But, like, even in the TV show you can see her struggling in the background and I wish some people would just acknowledge that.

[chrysalis-the-butterfly]

I've seen the most imbecilic take about Angel on Tiktok, people were again using the "he harrassed Husk" argument that is not even worth adressing right now because it was solved in canon and discussed enough in the fandom, but omg, people were literally saying "oh I believe Charlie's dream is possible but... ANGEL ISNT A GOOD CONDIDATE AND I'M GLAD HE WASNT REDEEMED. Husk and Pentious are great tho" ????????

And their whole argumentation was based in (tw for f slur): "Angel is an annoying f*ggot, and I heard somewhere that Italian mafias did cannibalism, so I guess Angel was a cannibal for some reason" lmao so fucking stupid. So Sir Pentious, that tried to destroy the Hotel twice, caused a tuff war in the Pilot, betrayed the Hotel to work for the Vees (and slutshamed Angel when confronted about it), is just a misunderstood boy who did nothing wrong... Husk, who was an Overlord that owned people and gambled for their souls is another misunderstood boy who did nothing wrong and was victimized by the evil twink... but Angel, a victim of abuse that was struggling with hypersexuality AND chose to do sex work to ran away from his family, is a bad guy? Fuck off. Those people on Tiktok were clearly homophobes and shamed Angel for being abused and for doing sex work.

Btw about the redemption part: Husk and Angel werent redeemed yet for a reason, probably because their souls are still under contract. But like. I'm really sure both of them would hate to live in the Heaven that was represented in the show LMAO

Thanks for sharing!

This is me trying to make sense of the TikTok you referred to:

"ANGEL ISNT A GOOD CONDIDATE AND I'M GLAD HE WASNT REDEEMED."

I think the best way to counter that point is with this anon who posted to the Angel Dust RP blog @angie-long-legs:

What, just because you've fucked up you can't ever get it together? Snap out of it. By that logic people that "are worthy" of redemption are the ones that don't even need it. You need to be flawed in order to fix your flaws, it's kinda the whole point. Making mistakes is what puts you in a situation where you are in need of redemption so how could it be the same thing that makes you unworthy of it? This logic just drives you into a wall.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

"Angel is an annoying f*ggot."

Firstly, I really hope they didn't actually use that slur, because that would make everything so much worse.

Secondly, whether or not someone is annoying isn't always a moral issue. Some people do set out to deliberately irritate their peers, and that's not great, but other people are deemed "annoying" for stuff they can't change or aren't doing on purpose, in which case the annoyance is more in the eye of the beholder.

"Being annoying" shouldn't be a metric that disqualifies you from getting into Heaven.

"I heard somewhere that Italian mafias did cannibalism, so I guess Angel was a cannibal for some reason."

So they didn't bring up anything from the show itself to support their argument that Angel is a bad candidate for redemption? They instead tried to appeal to real-world history, but without even doing any thorough research? I can understand where your annoyance is coming from.

My (admittedly brief) Internet search has not found evidence of mafia cannibalism in New York at the time Angel would have been alive. The closest I could find was a New York Times reporter called William Seabrook who claimed to have eaten human meat sometime before 1931. No mafia connections as far as I can see.

Also, even if Angel really was a cannibal, shouldn't that mean Alastor and Rosie need to receive equal amounts of condemnation? Why single out Angel?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I do not understand all this Angel-bashing.

When there are so many other characters in the Hellaverse you're clearly supposed to hate, such as Valentino (the pimp who drugs and rapes his employees) and Mammon (the exploitative boss who was willing to make sex dolls out of a child's likeness), it seems just a smidgen nonsensical to target Angel.

Yes, Angel did harass Husk, as you mention. But a) Angel never went so far as to assault Husk, whereas someone like Valentino would have done so, and b) Angel actually stopped doing the bad behaviour eventually, which is more than can be said for some characters.

I did wonder if the reason why Hazbin-critical people focus on Angel is because they see him as a stereotype of gay men and they want to see (what they believe is) better gay representation. But the fact that this TikToker used a homophobic slur blasts a hole in that theory. So I'm still confused.

Eh, whatever. I like Angel, and I know why I like Angel, and that's what really matters!

As for why Angel and Husk haven't been redeemed yet - I think their souls still being owned is part of it. And there's also the fact that their situations (addiction and self-destructive behaviours and deep-seated self-loathing) are more complex than Sir Pentious' problems.

And yeah, Heaven is probably a bit too relentlessly happy for Husk. He'd be like LEGO Batman in a world full of Unikittys. LOL! And Angel would probably not enjoy being slut-shamed by the likes of Lute. But maybe he'd be able to bear it as long as he could be with Molly...

[foreverautumn89]

@linklonk06

I completely agree with you. You're right. I know they'll never like Jonathan. Because the real reason the anti-jonathan st fans hate Jonathan is because of how he looks. Their: ''Hes ugly'' comments every 5 seconds don't help keep it a secret either. It's not about anything else. The anti-Jonathan fans made that perfectly clear a bunch of times. They're shallow and hung up on his looks and everyones looks [another way they're like the town of Hawkins btw]

And since its about looks and Jonathan/Charlie's looks are never going to change, so then the fans are never going to change thier attitude towards him and they're going to continue to bash him and make up lies and paint him as a villain in scenes where he was a victim you know the usual…

Looking at this logically: The real reason why they hate Jonathan isn't because of anything hes done. They're just excuses for their bad behavior. Because if it was about stuff hes done wrong then why doesn't that mentality apply to all their favorite characters then? there are SO SO many characters on this show that they adore or sympathize with who have done a lot worse and intentionally done horrible things intending to hurt ppl while jonathan only did something bad ONE TIME which was an accident and he apologized for [but according to them he didn't-another lie they tell].

AND the fans had to even blow that situation out of proportion that whole scene and claim it was something completely different than what it actually was so they could make him look really bad. And they added lies on top of it that almost all the other fans took as the holy gospel too.

Oh thats another way they make it obvious what its really about// why they really hate Jonathan: So you know how when they try to explain to us why they hate Jonathan so much/why we should hate Jonathan and we're horrible ppl if we don't…

It's about how BOGUS their reasons and excuses always are.

so...they either straight up lie about something hes done OR its always some far fetched take on it that you don't understand how they reached that conclusion. Or it was it explained on the show already that it was a misunderstanding. [S1] for example.

But they ignore that and keep up with their narrative on it anyway. that Jonathan is a monster and a pervert ext ext even though they've been proved wrong already or their conclusion was so wild and far fetched and grasping at straws that you don't even know where they got that idea from.

So either they're all delusional and can't follow a straight line or possibly never even watched the show and just are getting their info on it from tumblr OR they know they're fully aware that they are full of it and lyijng and making stuff up and its really about his looks [that they also make it a point to bring up and bash every 5 seconds]. Add to that: that they excuse the other characters bad behavior if they find them attractive even when those ppl have done REALLY HORRIBLE UNFORGIVEABLE THINGS especially when compared to Jonathan, but they forgive those ppl, but Jonathan is a villain.

It's just like 1+2=3. It's just that simple.

And in the cases of some of these anti-jonathan ppl: we are talking about ppl who defend Vecna here. Now I'm all for playing devil's advocate and trying to understand a character and see their depth but this is something different. they can understand yk somehow like Vecna and sympathize but you can't with Jonathan? What does Vecna have that Jonathan doesn't? Hmm….. lets think Fans react to Vecna: 'I love him. hes so so hot I want him to Vecna me' Fans react to Jonathan: I hate him and omg he's so ugly'

Its not a big mystery what its really about. They tattle on themselves and I don't think they realize it.

So trying to argue with them about the things Jonathan has done wrong [most of which they misunderstood/or spun it to make him look like the villain/or they're just straight up lies] is pointless. It's not going to make them see reason because thats not the real reason why they ever hated Jonathan in the first place.

[hydrogenuranium]

I am here to share our ramblings. So buckle up

Wanna know what I want. A fanfic where Sera isn't horribly villainized

Yeah, she can be a villain or something, but like, don't make her into an abusive ass who wants nothing more than to crush Emily's dreams and kill Charlie.

I'm all for different interpretations of the same character. I see Lucifer as a depressed dreamer trying to make up for not being there for Charlie. Others might see him as a horrible father who doesn't care about Charlie.

I just really hate Character assassination. LIKE THE WIKI IS RIGHT THERE

What I'm trying to say is, I just want more fanfics were Sera isn't a horrible person. lol

(btw I'm not bashing anyone who likes/writes evil Sera fanfics, I'm just saying)

Alright, rambling is over

[hyperfixatinglove]

1, 4, and 7!

1) what’s a Hot Take you have about your f/o?

Murphy is not and never has been the Worst Silent Hill Protagonist nor is his game the Worst of Silent Hill and I will die on this tiny hill.

Some theorize Murphy kills himself after canonical ending since he repeats "someplace I gotta be" which another character said before they jumped to their death but I do not buy that.

4) do you feel like you have to defend your f/o all the time? 

Yes

I feel like I need to defend his game all the time and by extension, him, since majority of fanbase and (especially) the die hard SH fans who only acknowledge the first 3 maybe 4 and consider the rest to be garbage. Yes, Downpour has many things that aren't great or could've used more time to flesh out but it is still Silent Hill game & everyone just pretends it isn't.

This extends to Murphy. He gets forgotten, sidelined, mocked, compared to James all the time (who btw is great protagonist pales to Heather) and bashed. The only thing I've seen is some people saying at least Murphy/Downpour are better than Alex/Homecoming which isn't high praise at all & is just another way to bash him & his game.

Every time there's any video essay on Downpour my gut feeling is it's just excuse to bash Murphy and his game. I've only found one which was good on him & Downpour as whole.

There's reason I don't engage with Silent Hill fandom at all. There's too many purists of Team Silent around.

7) did your f/o deserve better?

HE DEFINITELY DID

From critics, from fandom, from his own damn game, yes Murphy did and does deserve better! He deserves everything good and wonderful in life, my downpour to my sunshine, my religion to my paganism, the calm to my storm!

He goes through so much shit in his own game! Losing his son, ending up in prison, losing the only person who believed in him AND THEN AND ONLY THEN dropping into Silent Hill, attacked by monsters, mocked & reminded of his failures. his trauma of Charlie poked and opened the festering wound at every turn, having someone he doesn't even know chase him around with intent to kill!

Even after he's free he's canonically fugitive! What life does he have?! Maybe he gets lucky and is presumed dead but he most likely has to change his name or pretend to be identical stranger or something.

[sending-my-two-minutes-notice]

I hate how Hazbin fans keep bashing Lucifer

Like yeah, he isn't perfect, but you fucking know what? He's a better dad than mine. Lucifer is the dad I wish I had. But no. I get a shit dad in this life. Who doesn't give two fucking shits about the people he hurts.

I just get tired of people basically calling Lucifer a bad father while not outright saying it. And they keep saying how I'm "a better parent." Okay first of all, I'm canon divergent-- Charlie is an adopted little sister to me, not my daughter.

Secondly: if you're still set on making me out to be a "good parent" (and btw the show makes it very clear that canon!Alastor is doing it to piss off Lucifer, PERIOD, so do with that what you will), you can do it without putting down Lucifer.

Like for fuck's sake