#this isn't about trans women

[kuntya]

This may be a moment of weakness, but I'm starting to have more sympathy with female separatists.

"Women are people and deserve the same rights as you" didn't work. The first generation of men to see first-hand that equal rights means they won't get a wife/mommy/slave went hard right.

50% of marriages end in divorce. 70% of divorces are initiated by women. For every 2 divorced men who want to remarry, there's only 1 divorced woman who wants to remarry. 1/3 of men 18 - 24 haven't had sex in the last year.

Men are better off with you barefoot and pregnant. And they know it.

The incentives and opportunities for men to enslave women are just too strong. I don't know what to do about this.

[juney-blues]

its been said before but replying to conversations about transmisogyny with "teehee we should all stop fighting and arguing and instead make out and have kinky sex with eachother ;D" is just, in addition to being incredibly dismissive and shitty, brazenly misogynistic.

i have no patience for "we're too polarized and need to reach across the aisle and put aside our differences and work together" types at the best of times, but god if that attitude isn't especially frustrating when paired with the additional layers of viewing trans women as purely sex objects who just need to touch grass and get the transfeminism fucked out of them so they can be normal well adjusted members of the community, who won't speak up when they're being mistreated like a *good* tranny.

like do you people hear yourselves, is this not blatantly fucked to you, am i insane

[lisaquestions]

Stay the fuck away from trans women

everything in this post is TMRA garbage, not worth even arguing with.

People like this have no business speaking to or about us, let alone insisting that we should be in community with them. This is just tortured rationalization to treat us like garbage and reify patriarchal hierarchy by placing men in authority and power over women.

Trans women, you do not have to let toxic dipshits like this into your lives nor do you have to listen to them. They do not know what they're talking about, they only want to define our place as subordinate to them even as they move through the world as actual men. Be free of this garbage, be yourselves, don't let this shit drag you down.

people like this love to accuse us of terf rhetoric, but that entire post is literally terf rhetoric

also could someone who is not one of these unhinged woman-hating MRAs explain how people got to "white trans women are more male than other trans women" like they realize they're just trying to litigate excuses to say that shit and this isn't real analysis or theory right? Especially given how often trans women of color are ~suddenly white~ when people are mad at them?

[uncanny-tranny]

"If men got periods/needed abortion/got ovarian or breast cancer, those resources would be handed out like candy! They'd be more plentiful than ATMs!!"

You mean perisex cis men. You mean perisex cis men. Say what you mean.

I'm a trans man. I avoid all medical care because ninety percent of my doctors have not treated me properly because I am a trans man. I am acutely aware that doctors would be more than happy to not provide me care on the basis of my being trans, even if it costed my life.

Every time I so much as think about the doctors, I'm reminded of men like Robert Eads - of how my care is at the whim of the opinions a doctor has about my life. And because of my own past negative experiences, I hesitate to open my patient portal to schedule an appointment. When I have gotten a good doctor, it's not been the rule, it's the exception. I have a doctor right now who I'm lucky to see, who actually treats me like a human being. I'm celebrating that a doctor finally treats me like a person.

If you want to group all men as being the same, I hope you're willing to have that blood on your hands. Because that care is routinely kept away from men, and it's a real, tangible, systemic issue.

I don't talk about this because I see being trans as this negative thing, but because I want to continue living and I want my trans siblings to live. I understand the frustration that people have who say this - it's another systemic issue that also costs lives. However, I am alarmed at the trend of... forgetting or perhaps erasing that this is still an issue for men, that we literally aren't treated the same as somebody like a cis perisex woman. No doctor has ever treated me like one, and of that I know for a fact. And this is a simple fix - be clear about who you mean when you talk about a group of people or a specific phenomenon. That applies when you are talking about any group of people because, generally, these overgeneralizations will be useless because it can't apply to everyone, and might just hurt a group of people you may not even be intending on hurting.

[lazylittledragon]

I've been loving ur mombin comics, but where is the other mom? what trans hottie is not paying her child support out here? (this is said with a lot of love and affection, im very curious abt how she got into that situation, if you have thoughts abt it <3)

ajsjhsdfh i wasn't going to answer this because it's explained in the next comic but kudos to you for being the only person to say 'who's the other mom' instead of 'WHO'S THE DAD'

also the way this is worded made me laugh for like 5 minutes thank you so much xx

[frogfacey]

every day you get reminded of how much of this website's politics seems to be "(progressively) being transgender is a white people thing."

[rwuffles]

tme/tma is a shitty binary to sort people into because it leaves no room for nuance (i.e. intersex people who aren't transfem getting perceived as such and therefore are subjected to transmisogyny, gnc men ((tmasc & cis)), etc.)

transandrophobia & transmisandry don't imply the existence of androphobia nor misandry; the 'trans' is there for a reason

the oppression of transmascs & trans men is rooted in misogyny. we never said it wasn't

trans men don't have privilege over trans women in the public eye because they're still perceived as girls. girls who don't know any better about what they're doing to their body — no matter how old they are — and no matter how well they pass, them being trans can completely change a person's perception of them

passing for transmascs & trans men (especially those in unsupportive households) is no easier than passing for transfems & trans women

any "privilege" we have from being perceived as cisgender women... are you serious? are we being serious right now? we AREN'T cis. we AREN'T women. that's like, the whole thing! you know that, right? you aren't just looking at us and thinking Women Lite, right?

on top of that: what transmascs & trans men are being told is the exact same thing that most of us have been told our whole lives. to "shut up" because we're "girls" who can't understand the topic being discussed; it's just that now, we're being told to because we're men who can't understand the topic of misogyny and oppression. despite many of us having grown up as women & girls, and a lot of us still being perceived as such.

but we're on the internet, and nuance doesn't exist.

transmisogyny & transandrophobia both exist in the real world. those are issues that we, as a community, need to work towards solving in our current day and age. what isn't a real-world problem? about whether or not trans men & transmascs have privilege over transfems — or, god forbid, that we even face oppression in the first place.

p.s. you can be trans and still be transphobic. your identity does not exclude nor excuse you from hate. there is no identity that makes you incapable of wrong. if you think there is, i need you to take a step back from the internet & talk with real people.

[webcxre]

more kidpix art bc im getting a kick out of it

[miraculouslumination]

You know sometimes it just hits you that so much of queer "discourse" is basically one group of queer people trying to cultivate a subcommunity for themselves and their identity while another group of queer people cry and scream about how that group, who is just trying to exist and have their own bubble, is the cause of all their own group's problems

[mime-rodeo]

give me transmasc characters who still like wearing skirts and makeup and looking pretty.

give me transfem characters who are tomboys or androgynous.

give me trans characters who don't change their name.

give me non-binary characters who have typically masculine or feminine names.

give me non-binary characters in pink dresses and grey suits.

give me characters, trans and cis, who don't give a shit about pronouns and responds to any.

give me cis characters who are completely androgynous and still cis.

give me cis women with facial hair.

give me cis men with tits or wide hips.

give me cis women who are taller than average and cis men who are shorter than average.

give me cis characters who go by a different set of pronouns.

give me cishet characters who uses the term "partner" instead of gendered terms.

let's abolish the idea of gender norms completely, instead of unconsciously reinforcing new ones.

[princessefemmelesbian]

Transandrophobia truthers are so damn racist and white oh my fucking god y'all actually piss me the fuck off every time you tokenize Black and brown men for your stupid as fuck "mra but make it trans-inclusive" ideology created by a creepy guy with a corrective rape fetish(something I'll never let up on for as long as I live, btw). If I ever see another one of y'all say "Black and brown men face discrimination because they're seen as overly masculine and that's why masculinity in men is oppressed in this society" I will literally kill myself. Stop using Black and brown men as brownie points for your bullshit arguments about misandry being real when you don't have the slightest idea how racialized oppression works. White boys are so annoying and dumb istfg.

@punkeropercyjackson @punknicodiangelo @pinkpinkstarlet

[pinbones]

There's two types of people who use transandrophobia to decribe transmascs' and trans mens' experiences:

- Simply specificity, language used to hone in on a specific way being trans affects people who just happen to be men

- As both the above and as a springboard to discuss how societal misogyny, radical feminism, gender stereotypes, and bioessentalism affect all people who can be pecieved as men or masculine by others, and how bigotries compound in meaningful ways with stereotypes and bigotry surrounding maleness and manhood

Like. Half of you are saying "maleness is a hollow experience which is standard, and exists in opposition to gendered oppression, and transandrophobia is therefore when dudes experience misogyny and transphobia"

and half of you are saying "Being percieved and/or transitioning towards male uniquely affects how I am treated, because, for example, how people perceive my blackness or mental illness or kinkiness or femininity is compounded with my manhood in ways that don't usually happen to gender conforming cisperi women"

Which are two fundamentally different approaches to transandrophobia as a concept. One suggests that maleness is a simple downy layer of privilege that coats a person through their male life, and the other acknowledges that a man (or somebody perceived as masculine/male) can experience oppression in ways that those NOT perceived male may not.

Only one of these interpretations is intersectional. Black individuals who are policed more hashly when interpreted as masc know they are risking dangerous experiences when transitioning to male, as has been discussed before on here (to no avail). Male or percieved male people with personality disorders are treated as more dangerous than women with similar symptoms, and are sometiems diagnosed with different disorders entirely based on percieved gender differences. This affects transmascs too, especially considering the already dire state of queerness in psychiatric institutions. Being a male birthing parent is a whole shitshow of transphobia because men are not supposed to give birth, and transmascs are lucky to access related healthcare at all, let alone access it without being ceaselessly misgendered and treated as a stigmatised 'other' to deleterious affects on parent and baby. These are just a few examples, there are many more ways maleness can screw a person over. And that's not to say that female privilege is a thing instead of male privilege, but rather to emphasise that men are not supposed to be minorities. Men are not supposed to be assaulted, men are not supposed to be outliers, men are absolutely not supposed to be trans.

When a man is autistic, he's not just autistic, he's an autistic male, and that makes him more likely to be killed by cops (especially if black). When someone says "you claim you're not ableist but you're scared of the homeless x on a bus talking to xself", they always say the person is a man, because that sounds more significant (and cops think so too). Consider when a person's rape/abuse is considered to not be all that serious due to the victim being male, or when a man's attraction is considered to be more exploitative than a woman's, or when a fat man is considered more creepy/sexist than a thin man or a fat woman. Consider why so many caricatures of evil and creepiness are men with deformities. Consider the fact that men's bathrooms don't have baby changing tables, and that a man may get less support from others after their child's death than the mother might. Maleness can negatively compound with things like minority status, vulnerability, aggression, sexuality, etc. in ways that screw that person over, both in social spaces (such as queer communities that dislike/distrust maleness and masculinity, or how isolation affects men harder), and in more tangible ways, like their rates of suicide and being murdered.

There are tangible ways in which transitioning to male can negatively affect a person's life even if you remove (hypothetically, not really possible) the transphobia element, and these also constitute as worthwhile topics of discussion. If you think maleness is the lack of gendered oppression, then you're not intersectional in your feminism at all. If your life as a male is genuinely sunshine and rainbows (apart from the transphobia if trans), then good for you, genuinely that's great, but not everyone lives in a radfem fantasy world.

Being unable to tell the difference between men talking about mens issues/liberation, and right wingers talking about oppressing women more, isn't feminist. It's ignorant and antifeminist. (MRAs don't care about actual mens lib, and are actively worsening it because they are sexist and opposed to gender lib. You guys know that, right? That male and female liberation aren't oppositional or binary, but the same gender liberation that is entirely oppositional to patriarchy?)

These men and mascs talking about issues facing men aren't ignorant womanhaters who deny misogyny and want ultraprivileged men to be coddled, they are good faith members of your community with experiences just as varied and valid as yours. Treat them like it.

[uncanny-tranny]

Men, it's fucking normal to have stretch marks and even cellulite. It's normal to not have a flat stomach, to have body acne (especially because of hormones/puberty), to have unbalanced hair distribution along all parts of your body. It's normal to have deep hair lines, to have thin hair, for hair to regrow odd.

Very, very few of us will live in this world unscathed. You owe nobody the conformity of man. So many problems that are seen as "womens-only" occur in men, too, because it is a part of the human condition to have weird bodies.

[iseetheisland]

Trying to gatekeep actors who are trans from playing evil characters just because you think it could villianize trans people is anti-trans btw.

Mingling their personal life into the storytelling to change the narrative is disgusting. Anyone doing that is just as gross as the few and far between people who actually do think the way that your conspiracy theory implies. Don't cater to transphobes by shaming trans people from taking whatever roles they want.

Let actors act. Let trans women play cis women. They are women. And forcing them being trans into the narrative when it's not actually part of the story, then demonizing it, is transphobic.

Cut that shit out.

[mocacheezy]

I very recently saw a post where someone said that trans men are a minority, and not talked about enough. Now this could just be a case of having different social groups, but in my friend and acquaintance circles I know more trans men.

Pretty much every trans person I meet is ftm.

It was only very recently I met a trans woman! In the years of actually seeking out & hanging out with other queer people, I've only ever heard about trans-men. Even in online spaces, probably bcs I have mutuals who are trans-men, but still.

So I am curious. Is this just a case of WIDELY different friend groups and queer communities elsewhere, or is ftm transness really not talked about nearly as much as I think it is?

If you feel comfortable you can add where you're from, but it isn't necessary.

[ I have not majored, graduated or in any way acquired the title of Knows-All-The-Right-Terms when it comes to queer, lgbtqa+, alphabet mafia, so-on-and-so-forth community. Even if I speak english well, I am not online 48/7, and can admit I lack understanding of certain terms, or references, or things like that. So in case you have something new to share with me, by all means, I love learning! Just be nice about it, being queer doesn't mean I know everything. ]

[kuromi-hoemie]

“if she doesn't want to be called dude i won't call her that” - you are assuming you and your friends read as people trans women feel safe enough to speak up to, while already demonstrating you don't take other people seriously enough.

Your habit and lack of self restraint/awareness matter more than common sense i guess. Like i would never call a transmasc “girl” because that would seem like obvious misgendering, but it's different for trans women apparently.