#this isn't about one thing in particular btw i just saw something earlier and now i'm annoyed lol

[theghostofashton]

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[batsplat]

do you have any random early 00’s motogp era hot takes you want to share? literally any thing

I do feel like 'hot take' implies that I know what people's takes about this era even ARE, but sure I always have a few!

according to mat oxley's reference book, in 2005 at the sachsenring valentino was planning to make a move at the penultimate corner on the final lap to take the win from sete. now, this didn't end up happening, because poor old thoroughly broken sete crumbled to the pressure from valentino at the start of the final lap, which let valentino through and let him take the victory. so I'd actually had this reference book for a while and flicked through the 2005 pages quite a few times before I realised something. the penultimate corner? that's where valentino took the lead from sete at sachsenring 2003 - you know, the race where he'd been lurking and leaving it until almost the last moment, before taking too much of a defensive line into the final corner and allowing sete to just beat him to the line. the race that made him go off and dye his hair and have a bit of a crisis before showing up at brno and beating sete on the final lap. from here:

I double checked, and he definitely gets the lead into the penultimate corner in 2003. for 2005, the reference book says this: "vale planned to attack into the downhill run to the penultimate corner, leaving his rivals no time counter-attack". which, if this is true, let's just sit with that for a moment. we happen to know for a fact that a counter-attack is possible if you don't get the last corner right since we saw it in 2003. so what valentino was planning to do in 2005 was overtake sete in precisely the same place he had overtaken him two years earlier, and this time make no mistake to take the win. to reverse what had been sete's greatest ever victory over him. can you imagine? isn't that kind of funny? isn't that kind of fucked? valentino can you let this man BREATHE jesus christ

my hot take is that valentino popping his champagne right in front of sete's salad at jerez 2005 was unfortunately pretty fucking funny

the hands on hips when the spaniards were booing?? also incredibly funny

walking out onto the podium like this when the spaniards booed him really does make me think how fucking tragic it is he didn't get booed more often. there are few things I enjoy more in sports than athletes being cunts when crowds are booing them. like it just slaps, what can you say. this slaps. look at how delighted he is to rub it in their faces. valentino rossi EYE will boo you

some other under appreciated bad vibes 2005 photos:

catalunya 2004 is a bizarrely underrated valentino duel, and I cannot for the life of me understand why it's not mentioned in the same breath as the other ones (actually I can, it's because a) people don't rate sete and b) it was twenty years ago)

quick catalunya 2005 tangent: I kind of get 2005 not being discussed so much, even though to me it's an integral part of the season and I think it really works in narrative purposes because it's just like? such a specifically cruel way for the whole race to play out? 2005 as a season is kind of about figuring out every single cruel way you can win a race against a rival and trying them all out one by one. if you're into that sort of thing, like a sicko

but anyway catalunya 2004 is just unequivocally a banger of a race if you love one-on-one duels - from right to the start to the very end (which btw you cannot say of either 2007 or 2016, as fond as I am of them) (I cannot stress enough how much I love 2007 but obviously it does also tell you something about that particular era of racing that we still think of it as one of the two valentino/casey duels). my point is that this race slaps, it's part of one of the best series of three races you'll ever come across, and the way 2004 just gradually ramps up the stakes and tension of the sete/valentino rivalry is ridiculously cinematic

let's go back a few years and talk about alex barros

alex barros was valentino's most significant on-track rival in 2002, not biaggi. and, listen, I'm not saying he's on the level of the five feuds TM, but people do completely forget that rivalry, and, like, they had a bunch of fun battles!

this isn't as much a hot take as just a...? point of curiosity. I feel like by the late noughties, everyone was always talking about how all this in-race pressure he'd exert would break biaggi and gibernau. but relatively speaking, he really doesn't do this that much with biaggi - the main way he 'breaks' him is just like... being way better than him. on-track, relatively speaking he's not spending all that much time sitting on biaggi's rear tyre... of course it happens, but extended duels between the pair are pretty rare. he's using that tactic more often on, well, alex barros. plus, barros had a reputation for being evil on the brakes and he was someone who valentino had a healthy respect of in last laps! helps make it more interesting

I know 'why don't people talk about valencia 2002' is a question that can be answered with 'because it was 22 years ago', and I left out the race from my vale race recs list because... okay, look, I had to draw the line somewhere and felt like 'getting people into a bunch of 2002 races without commentary against a rival a lot of new-ish fans haven't even heard of' was very much where that line should be drawn. but I don't know! it's still weird they fought that much on-track and it just sort of gets ignored, including some notable valentino defeats (or, well, two defeats, that's something)

also flattens perception of valentino I reckon, if looking back your understanding of valentino's prime is 'well his two rivals were biaggi and gibernau and he hated them both' makes it easy to forget that at age 25, he really wasn't seen as like... a nasty competitor, somebody who was constantly picking fights... by this point he's won three premier class championships, and he's really only beefed with the guy basically everyone beefed with. that particular perception really stuck to him post-gibernau! it's casey + jorge who are the first ones to kinda be primed for conflict (especially jorge)

anyway, assen + sachsenring 2002 are both available on youtube, and I did include those in the recs lists in large part because they have commentary... personally, I would've made different choices here from the motogp website, but what can you do. they're both fun races though, I promise! it's really interesting that barros is still riding a 500cc machine at this point, so you kinda get that neat contrast between bikes... it's fun how much you can actually see it, like imagine if you got that with all major technical regulations - and with something this radical even the layperson gets to appreciate it

shout out to alex barros' weird and quirky 2002 season... I won't forget u buddy

also, this is a bugbear in general when people talk about title rivals - but it's not always the runner-up who was the title rival! you have to remember how the season actually unfolded in real time, y'know... events happen in a linear order. if you have stronger results towards the end of the season after you realistically no longer had a shot at the championship, then that's very good for you but you are not the title rival. biaggi isn't the title rival in 2002, ukawa is. dani isn't the title rival in 2007, valentino is. dovi isn't the title rival in 2018, valentino is. unless you are able to mount such a dramatic comeback that you have literally gotten it to a title decider (cf 2006 and 2022) then I will check the standings at the halfway point and listen to what they tell me like a sensible person

come on! this isn't even particularly marginal! some title fights can be described as three way like 2003 2004 2008 2013 and some are five way like 2006 2017 and some occur in the year 2020. some involve the eventual runner up never having really been in championship contention and as a society we just have to accept that

(obviously, only one of these things can really be described as 'a title fight', and even that one is a snapshot at a time that happens to be pretty flattering toward valentino right before it all really goes downhill. but anyways it's the principle of the matter, it's just an inaccurate description of what actually happened that season)

biaggi is more of a title contender in 2004 (and even 2003) than he is in 2002... I do feel like sometimes people act like biaggi disappeared when sete showed up. final results aren't everything - mind you at the halfway point in 2004, biaggi was one point off the championship lead, with sete a few more points off... also biaggi was p3 in both of those seasons. he only dropped off when he got the repsol honda seat in 2005 lol

unfortunately, and with all respect to barros who I've been hyping up a lot recently, the lack of a clear narrative hook and indeed a feud makes 2002 the least interesting of the early noughties seasons. you can't even say it's really that much less 'polished' than valentino's 2005 season... like no offence but this is kind of disgusting, even the dnf was mechanical:

thing is valentino also has the clearest machinery advantage over all his major rivals here, it's more fun if you make these guys suffer a bit imo

that being said, I do find it charming and kinda endearing valentino also found this season boring as shit and desperately needed to change things up. he's so real for that, a true warrior against single athlete domination

btw in 2005 the narrative hook is that he's tormenting sete basically the whole year. that one's also way more impressive since the yamaha is still on balance the worse bike than the honda

like I said here:

I don't necessarily think that sete approaching that valentino rivalry differently would've helped him so much in 2005 (though maybe in 2004), but he could have perhaps preserved some of his dignity. there's something about how valentino really makes sure these feuds are conducted interpersonally on his own terms... and his approach is very much conditioned on whether he's operating from a place of strength or not

I've obviously talked about this more elsewhere, but you've got a real shamelessness differential. and sete continually is too concerned with managing perception of that rivalry. whereas valentino, y'know - I reckon he's quite comfortable with people perceiving him as ruthless. first of all, obviously it works out in his favour more often than not because of the intimidation factor... and secondly, from how he's talked about it over the years, he does know that the rivalries are part of the show and also are something he really does consciously enjoy (obvious exceptions apply). he does like playing the arsehole, and he's happy to do it in front of the cameras... that's really where it falls apart for sete, because it almost feels like presenting this as a very 'respectful' and non-biaggi/vale rivalry was a bit of a group project, something they'd both been invested in during 2003 and much of 2004. and valentino just... throws it away. zero hesitation. such a key turning point in that season and that rivalry but also kinda valentino's career? in a way, it's the natural culmination of how he's taken ownership of his own narrative... from the start of 2003, when he was chafing against the constraints set by honda and is searching to reestablish individuality, to then forging his own destiny at yamaha in 2004 - and now he's even stage managing his own feuds. it's all so much more sudden and deliberate and self-assured than anything with biaggi or his earlier rivals. he's ensuring that this whole story is to be told on his own terms. what a spectacle and all that

whereas something like jerez 2005... obviously you have the spontaneity of the move itself - nothing premeditated about that, which you can tell because he fails to make a move two corners earlier (after having made the mistake to let sete past in the first place earlier that lap). so of course the performance in front of the booing spaniards is also completely spontaneous... dealing such a decisive psychological blow on sete was mostly happenstance, though of course valentino did well to take advantage of the hand he was dealt (setting aside moral qualms for a moment). still, it's revealing in itself that it's a victory he enjoyed so much... at the end of the day, there's no way in which he'd rather win a race, the more brutal for the opponent the better. it's something all his big wins have in common

including welkom 2004 btw!! feel like that's sometimes a bit under-discussed with that race - like, sure, it's switching to the yamaha and winning when nobody else could bla bla, but the fact that his two major rivals had been complaining for the whole last year (and in biaggi's case an awful lot longer than that) about how valentino had the best bike and then he goes out and wins with a fucking yamaha first time of asking??? that's got to STING. the more you can make the opponent suffer, the more fun it is lbr

back to 2005 (you can tell these are real 'hot takes' because none of these are in chronological order and only loosely thematically related)

the valentino/melandri rivalry is weirdly flat given the set-up is perfectly compelling? you've got childhood friends and rivals who used to be a lot closer, and then valentino is super successful and melandri is also there, and then at some point melandri is complaining valentino has switched up towards him and seems kinda resentful towards him? and then a few years down the line he's saying valentino's rivals are using yellow chairs as mind games. which, again, I'm writing it out and I can see the narrative appeal, but somehow it never quite comes together. I don't even mind that melandri isn't that competitive in the rivalry, plenty of fun rivalries are like that, but... y'know. not for me

I do have a theory for why this is but it's a bit rude and quite possibly unfair so let's keep it moving

which is why the main rivalry in 2005 as far as I'm concerned is still valentino/sete... but it's important that rivalry exists, because otherwise it'd be another relative dud of a season. as it stands, it slaps!! prime yamaha valentino is great to watch, and there's like half a dozen performances of his that season I'm super fond of. admittedly most of them are the ones where he's ragging on sete, but donington also slaps!!

I know it's mean, but I just have to say again the bit of the brno 2005 commentary where they go (paraphrasing, can't be bothered to dig up my notes) 'it's almost like rossi has a radio with which to talk into gibernau's ear - remember sachsenring, remember how long you led there, remember how you made that final lap mistake' is so wild?? I genuinely don't get how people aren't all over this rivalry (beyond how it's twenty years old, yes yes), like the psychology of this shit is fascinating, the symbolism is incredible... commentators bringing up the idea that valentino can essentially whisper into his enemies' heads, the way they discuss the curse more and more that year... and inevitably, it always does fall apart for sete - remember, brno is the race where his engine!! cuts out!! on the last lap!! that is SO cursed! all kind of creepy, no? in a lot of ways, late 2004 and 2005 is basically an extended horror film. isn't that what everyone wants from their sports...

here's sete after starting on pole at valencia 2005 and suffering a mechanical dnf on lap 3: