#this is why i can't read gl novel translations

[leet911]

On Translations

So I watched Uranus 2324 and it made me think of something. Overall, the movie was ok to me. The scenery in it is very beautiful (I saw that Thai Ministry of Culture logo at the beginning), Freen and Becky are great, and I did not find the plot confusing as I've heard some others say, and I'll forgive the budget special effects in the space scenes, but the thing that bothered me the most was how stilted the English dialog was in the movie.

I felt all the scenes in English, with the exception of Kath's (Becky's) narration seemed clunky. In particular the astronaut chatter with ground control. The international crew speaking English each in their own way with their own accents is fine, but the word choice and dialog lines for characters/voices which are meant to be native English speakers (like the mission commander) were so cheesy.

Now I know this movie also has a lot of Thai dialog in it, and some Japanese as well, so it's entirely possible that the rest of the movie sounds just as cheesy to native speakers of those languages. But I don't speak Thai or Japanese, so I can't judge those. I'd be super curious what others think though?

This got me thinking about the recent episode of Mate the series, and how everyone is up in arms about Great's outburst to Gen. The subtitles have "open your eyes, not your legs", and I agree that's a terrible thing to say to your sister, but now I'm wondering about translations. Is that literally what Great says in Thai? This construction seems fairly idiomatic to me in English (or even French), but as I don't speak Thai, I can't tell for that. Or did Great use some other Thai phrase that might have the same meaning, but perhaps has less crude and demeaning connotations? If there are any Thai speakers please enlighten us.

[coldzonkprofessorturtle]

An Affair to Remember

Alright, let's get into Affair the Series, which has been giving me brainrot the past few weeks so feels like a good time to get into an analysis of why I find it so fascinating. Eventually I'd love to do a deeper dive into Thai GLs and that industry (that's a whole other thing though) but after having seen my share of them (Gap, Show Me Love, TSOU, The Loyal Pin) I've really found myself falling into the rabbit hole with Affair the Series and the way it depicts friendship, love, and acceptance.

Deep dive below and also thank you gif makers for your work 🙏🏽

(also will go over events from episodes 1-5, so spoilers ahead if not up-to-date)

So first off, I have read the novel, which is the first time I've finished one of those for a GL and quite frankly, the translation wasn't that great but the story still came through. I won't refer to it much and will base this on the show as I think they've done a fantastic job with the adaptation and fingers crossed continue to do so.

Where in most GLs the core conflict is external. The main couple can't be in love typically due to familial/cultural pressure or a man interfering (that still exists to an extent here) the main conflict in Affair is simply that Wan and Pleng love each other too much but they do so in different ways.

When we meet Wan and Pleng they're 17 years old and have spent their entire lives together. They're sisters but not and while Wan seems to have a social circle, Pleng really has no other friends outside of Wan. The spoiled rich girl and the maid's daughter. Couldn't be more different if they tried and yet by circumstance their lives are as intertwined as it gets.

At 17, they have different ideas for their futures. Pleng is musically talented, wins every contest and is financially set. She can live the life she wants. If she wants to be a musician then so be it. Her parents love and support her and there's no pressure. Wan on the other hand has an overbearing mother (and a resentful father), no prospects for her future but at least she has Pleng.

Despite her parents, Wan loves wholly and openly. She knows she loves Pleng and while she doesn't yet know it she does know that Pleng loves her too. I would argue that Wan truly knows herself, which is why she comes across as so self-assured in their younger years. She's slowly trying to guide Pleng to understand herself too.

Pleng, however, has never had to sit with her emotions in the same way. Take this as differences of personality, class and upbringing. Now that they're 17 and entering adulthood, Pleng has to start engaging with the world (and her emotions) rather than hiding behind the rich, insular lifestyle she's had up to this point.

As the idea of boyfriends comes up, Pleng starts to lash out. She's jealous, she's pushy but really she's just in love with her best friend and doesn't know it. Everything starts happening too fast. Wan meets a boy at an art gallery, Aunt Wi pushes Pleng to help Wan get with Ek, Pleng's dad is extremely stressed and she doesn't know to what extent and throughout that Pleng is dealing with her feelings that for some reason just won't go away. Feelings that Wan keeps bringing up in her over and over.

Pleng is a mess. She doesn't know how to connect with her peers, she knows something is wrong with her dad, she sees that Wan is seemingly moving forward in a way that she's not (dating a boy) and whether she realizes it she continues to isolate herself.

From Wan's perspective she couldn't care less about dating Ek. She's already completely devoted to Pleng (in ways that Pleng doesn't even know).

They're 17, hormonal, gay, and incapable of seeing each other's perspective. Wan wants Pleng to let her in. Pleng can't help but push everyone away.

As soon as Pleng starts to really come to terms with her feelings about Wan. That's when everything falls apart. Her dad kills himself, her mom goes into cardiac arrest, all of her family's assets are seized and she's now orphaned and staying with Wan's parents who clearly and vocally have no space for her. Pleng who was already struggling to find her footing before that fateful night now has absolutely nothing to stand on.

The break point is when Pleng finds out about Wan's academic achievements and that Wan had been hiding that truth about herself their entire lives. Wan has always been intelligent and capable but hidden herself behind a veil of ineptitude. Wan in loving Pleng puts her on a pedestal to her own detriment. She has no issue blighting her own light so that Pleng can shine but from the moment we meet 17 year old Pleng in the show we see her pushing Wan to better herself. Wan thinks loving Pleng means her own success doesn't matter whereas Pleng loves Wan and all of her potential.

They both love each selflessly but while Wan would burn the whole world to keep Pleng warm, Pleng loves Wan despite her own existence. So when Pleng leaves she writes,

"Your parents will feel at ease. And you'll finally get to live your life as your true self... I know you love me but I also want you to love yourself. And be proud of who you are."

For Pleng, her leaving is the ultimate way to show her love to Wan. A clean break. She runs away so Wan can thrive but here's the thing Wan needs Pleng to keep her grounded. Pleng does too but she can't see it at this point. Too much has happened and so, in her desperation she removes herself. She is her father's daughter after all.

So when 13 years pass and Wan has spent that entire time holding on to whatever she can to keep herself close to Pleng (becoming a doctor, riding a bike to work, marrying Ek, separating herself from her parents); Pleng has become a ghost of herself. Wan has imbued herself with all the things she thinks/knows Pleng would like while Pleng is stuck in a cycle that she can't get out of: play music, make a bit of money, pay rent, rest, repeat.

Pleng never reaches out to Wan because why would she? Her loving Wan means staying away and on top of that there's a sense of shame of what her life has become.

So when they finally meet again it's too much. Wan is successful but she's still clearly in love with Pleng and while it was all Wan's doing, in a way her success is a direct result of Pleng's influence. In removing herself, Pleng slowly begins to realize not just that she took Wan's smile with her but the why and how. Wan's changed and devoid of the joy and innocence that Pleng loved most.

They slowly fall back into their natural rhythms but Pleng still can't accept her own presence in Wan's life. Wan is back to pushing (albeit more aggressively then before - time was wasted) and in pushing Pleng, Pleng pushes back. If they take their relationship that one step further, what then? What if it falls apart? Why not just stay in a cycle where nothing shifts? What if there's another ringing shot in the distance and everything changes in a moment?

If there's one core trauma to Pleng as a character it's her desperation to not feel like a burden to anyone. Especially Wan. And then she finds out that Wan (though separated) is still married to Ek and she can't accept that she could have ruined Wan's potential happiness. Not understanding that Pleng herself is Wan's happiness. Pleng feels like a disruption because at the root of it the thing she wanted above all for Wan, "I also want you to love yourself. And be proud of who you are" is not something that Pleng accepts for herself.

I'll leave it there and hope the show navigates the situations that are about to come as well as they have so far but kudos as Affair manages to oh so gracefully skirt what could otherwise be an incredibly toxic relationship. Somehow they manage to give these two characters so much grace despite their flaws. And truly that's also a huge credit to Sonya and Lookmhee's abilities.

It's chaotic and messy but in coming back together these two might just realize that's how they both best shine.

[sunriseverse]

complaint time? complaint time! let's talk about my annoyance relating to sapphic, especially lesbian, characters, relationships, and mxtx! because apparently, i love kicking hornet's nests these days (this isn't new, i just usually confine it to dms). this got long, my apologies, so it's going below the cut.

first off, i'd like to clarify that i am not talking about fanfic that makes mxtx characters sapphic/lesbians. i think that's great. i love rule 63. if you want to write these men in an au where they are sapphic, i have been there and support you wholly. this isn't what that's about, though—this is specifically about mxtx.

i've seen the same sentiment over and over trying to go through the chinese gl tag (baihe): people wishing mxtx would write about sapphic characters, wishing that mxtx would write sapphic novels, etc. and honestly, this pisses me off for a few reasons: my thoughts on how mxtx handles lgbt characters generally, the way that these posts clog the tag, and, finally, the way people going "wish mxtx wrote sapphic novels :( too bad she didn't, i guess there's no sapphic cnovels!" cheapens the extant, vibrant baihe field.

one: my thoughts on how mxtx handles lgbt characters

first of all, i'd like to preface this by saying this is only going off of what i know about mxtx, and mxtx works. as far as i'm aware, mxtx is a straight woman, writing about same-sex male relationships. she's the author of svsss, mdzs, and tgcf. i don't know if she's written anything else, but for this post, that doesn't really matter. let's go over these, shall we? mdzs' main couple has a rape kink, svsss' main couple is a teacher-student relationship, and tgcf's main couple is a man who saved a young child who later grew up to worship him. this isn't a judgement—i am a tgcf fan, so i'll be upfront about that; i think the way that specific scenario is handled in canon makes sense, and isn't objectionable to me specifically because of the way it's handled. i haven't finished svsss, and i haven't read mdzs, so i can't make commentaries there. i simply say this to point out the fact that, generally, mxtx couples play into a number of uncomfortable stereotypes about gay men, especially that their sex lives must be particularly "freakish", or that they must be older men pursuing younger men, especially those who idolise them. whether or not this is the message intended in these works, and whatever the characters themselves may think about these situations, they are not their own, real people; they are characters created specifically to be the way they are, by an author who is not a gay man. you can probably see why i, as a lesbian, do not want her writing lesbian characters specifically, and sapphic characters generally.

point two: posts like these clog the tags

any time i scroll the baihe tag, i inevitably run into at least one post where people wish that mxtx would write sapphic characters. while i understand wanting your favourite author to write about characters you feel better represented by, the truth of the matter is that when people make these often-one line posts that aren't actually related to baihe content in any way, and then tag them as #baihe, this leads to the clogging of a tag meant to be specifically filled with content about and surrounding baihe works.

point three: these posts draw attention away from extant baihe (chinese sapphic) works

as surprising as it may be, sapphic cnovels exist! there's actually a decent number of them, in fact. not many are fully translated, but there's a few big ones that are—and, i would say, the quality of the ones that have been translated are at least as good as extant mxtx fantranslations. baihe suffers from being ignored by the mainstream and official english-language publishing/translation houses, for a number of reasons that would take an entire post to even begin to try and unpick, but it does exist. however, when there's a bunch of people acting like no baihe exists and wishing their favourite danmei author would write baihe so it would exist, it creates the false illusion that baihe doesn't exist, drawing attention away from extant baihe—and thus perpetuating the tendency of those in fandom spaces to only ever talk about and promote male-centric works, and erase or marginalise female-centric works, as well as sapphic fans themselves.

in conclusion: i don't have a solution to this. i'm just frustrated by the tendency to act like mxtx is the paragon of lgbt fiction in cnovel spaces, and the way that, rather than looking for extant sapphic cnovels and characters, people seem far more willing to wish that mxtx would write sapphic novels, something that i, as an individual lesbian, think is a foolish idea, and just a generally annoying sentiment.

[discluded]

Hi discluded,

[This is regarding the the literature and not the real life situations.]

I am a fan of watching bl and gl series but I'm more interested in reading the written versions. I have read alot of translated novels/manga /manhua and watched donghua etc.

When it comes to translated works books like The grandmaster of demonic cultivation,SVSS, TGCF, Painter of the night are widely popular now. But that's just the icing on the cake. There are many novels mangas/manhuas with much darker and more violent themes [ All with characters above the age of consent]in the categories of Yuri/Yaoi/hetero.

But what baffles me the most is that though most of the plots of thai bl books and bl series are relatively tame when compared to other danmei/ yaoi stories , the amount of rage present in this bl series watching fandom as a whole.

People get angry at every single thing.They are always warring against each other.Civil discourse is present but very passive aggressive. It's filled with moral policing left and right [Regarding the literature].

Majority of the danmei novels have sensitive themes but the arguments in the danmei fandom are usually very civil . There's not much anger present.

I saw this especially when daemi released Kinnporsche, VegasPete and even Big Dragon . At the end of the day it's just literature....

Like Vegas/Kinn are in the mafia.And Vegas has a lot of unhealed trauma and borderline insane. He obviously isn't going to be acting like a normal person without getting help and Pete's not a psychologist.. How can people expect them to act like the usual couple ? Obviously it's not that simple.

I just don't understand why this bl-series- watching -community gets so angry at everything. There's so much toxicity. Why do people watch and then complain ? The tags are already there.If that form of literature is way too sensitive to consume ,then they shouldn't. I don't consume literature that I find triggering. We all have enough understanding to be able to make a choice of what we want to read.

Why scold the people who consume it ? Why try to act morally superior than the ones who consume and scold them ? I simply don't understand why some of these people behave like this.

What are your thoughts about it ? I would like to know .

As someone who's enjoyed Hannibal and keep watching people trying to cancel Hannibal for being the gaslight gatekeep murder cannibalism show, lol. idk.

i don't bother trying to understand antis' perspective (whether or not they label themselves as antis because they certainly behave like antis) because they don't deserve the energy of me extending empathy when they have none for other people. It's the same mentality as any western group trying to culturally colonize narratives that don't belong to them in the first place.

also wank in danmei fandom is definitely not civil if you've seen people try to cancel MXTX, an author who rarely gives interviews, for existing and having her characters have sex/have any kink, or try to accuse Chinese fans of antisemitism for pointing out the Lans can't be Jewish because they practice Daoism which is also a core tenant of the plot of the novel. or try to cancel me for biphobia when I tried to contextualize historical and modern chinese terminology around queer identity and behavior, which informs self-conceptualization of identity.

You may enjoy @dirtydirtychai's purity wank tag though!

[taohs]

You'll learn even more about characters in the Roberta's Blood Trail arc when you get into the ova season. Revy, Rock, Eda, Roberta and Chang are some of those characters you will learn more about during that entire arc.

Exactly! None of the characters are poorly written at all. I believe that every character is fleshed out in their own ways... Which is definitely a reason why people enjoy the Black Lagoon franchise. That I know of.

Wait till you get into the Yakuza arc. Even more Balalaika backstory in that arc too, and you learn about the yakuza princess too. No more to say about that. You'll see. I won't spoil that for you. More ruthlessness on Balalaika's part.. We'll see if you still like her character during those arcs. Even if her completely ruthless, I enjoy her character a lot.

Many fans will say that the Vampire Twin arc is definitely the darkest arc of the series. Because of obvious reasons that you've already seen happen.

I forgot Roberta! I forgot to ask you about Roberta. How can I forget to ask about her?! She's another interesting character too.

I think the only female character I can't tolerate, in my opinion, is only Janet Bhai. She's the Indian woman who ends up with Benny. She is a well written character, but I find her too annoying for me to enjoy her.

I love Shenhua too, and Frederica Sawyer (the mute goth girl). Like.. I can say, minus Jane, I enjoy just about every female character in this series. And there are even more in the manga. I hope they'll continue the anime so we could see more of the story, characters, everything.

That's definitely one of the reasons why I enjoy the English version so you can her their accents, and the English language makes a lot more sense than most of the other languages. But that's just my opinion.

I think the reason why you don't see subtitles for those scenes is just because Rock is the one translating between characters, and also the viewers who are watching the anime (or reading the manga).

Leigharch is brain dead now so he won't ever be coming back. But his reaction to them being chased by terrorists, while he's too completely high to comprehend what even happened to them.

Actually.. Eda and Frederica Sawyer are characters who actually have their own spinoff mangas, but none of the novels are in English yet.

Honestly? I don't want to spoil anything. So I'll try keeping my whole opinion vague. At least until you watch more of the anime anyway.

I have mixed feelings about Rock in general. If I'm being completely honest.. I can't tolerant people who are pushovers, I believe people do need to stand up for themselves and other people which is why I have never liked this character. I respect that he wants to help people in so many ways, but he does it in a way that is not the right approach. But you do find out why he always wants to help people in the Yakuza arc.

But as the series progresses, at least during Roberta's Blood Trail arc, he is easily manipulated while also manipulating other people too.. So I'm having mixed feelings about his character. He's this antihero now.

But I haven't read any of the new chapters yet. So I don't know how much characters have changed yet, or even stayed the same either.

- 💋

going to put this under read more because lots of thoughts!!

i finally finished the series (plus the ova and omake) a few days ago, and wow, so so many things to unpack. roberta's blood trial was even darker and more violent than i expected. i binged it in one sitting, so the whole thing felt like a movie. roberta feels like a superhuman character, and i think she is probably the strongest, if not one of the strongest warrior in the anime (like WHO is able to just chomp off a machete like she did?? she's on another level). anyway i liked that they fleshed her character out more in this arc. i didn't expect her to make it to the end honestly, i thought either garcia will end up killing her to relieve her of her insanity/pain or she might get killed in battle. i'm glad that she has an opportunity to more forward and heal from the trauma! a lot of interesting things happened too, balalaika, chang and shen hua is always a joy to see. i love that shen hua has a little family with sawyer and the other guy, that was so cute. it was great to see eda getting some action too! even though it feels like we still barely know anything about her lol. season 2 is still my favorite season as of yet though :'D

but that aside i think out of the whole series, roberta's arc might have been the hardest for me to watch. i felt sick watching that scene of revy's flashback and thinking about it now still makes my stomach queasy. also, i don't know what kind of relationship they were trying to push with roberta and garcia?? i thought it was entirely platonic up to the point where he kissed her and i fully shouted at the screen because i did NOT expect that 😭

i see what you mean by janet. i actually don't mind her character, the only time i was a little annoyed with her was when she was rambling in the church. i felt like eda and revy wanting her to just be quiet :')

since i'm done with the anime i can gather my thoughts about rock a bit more: he is a complicated character, but i think season 2 made me dislike his character more. mostly his actions (because i don't hate him), but the things he says and does makes me question him a lot. he's incredibly smart and has the potential to thrive both in the dark and good side, but i find his ideals and "standing in the twilight" to be... hypocritical? he adapted to his new environment and sticks with them, yet he does not want to fully embrace it. i actually loved this in the beginning, like the theme of him remaining a pure light in his dark world, but eventually it doesn't seem that way anymore. he wants to keep his sense of justice by saving people even though he doesn't have the power to do it, and instead manipulates others to do it for him so he doesn't get his hands dirty. he's fine with saving one person at the downfall of another, but again he refuses to be the one to do any of the dirty work. i think that's why he feels like he's on enough of a higher moral ground to be able to lecture yukio about her choices even though he's also living a criminal life, when in reality he is just being indecisive and imposes his thinking on other people. i like that he is still able to be empathetic towards others despite everything, but i hate the way he goes about it. at least that's how i interpret it though. it was more interesting to see rock seeming to shift more towards the dark side in the ova and take on a more villainous role. it makes me wonder what's going to happen to him next and how it will affect his and revy's relationship, because revy for sure wants a way out of the darkness and sees rock as her light. i'm super tempted to read the manga even though i read that it updates really slowly.

balalaika is still hands-down my favorite character; i think the ruthlessness is part of her charm and helps her survive at the top in the world of black lagoon. i can probably go on and on about her :'D her backstory was tragic and i could see how big of a strain it caused her and the rest of hotel moscow. all the peeks into her backstory just makes me want to know more too. i would absolutely read an entire spin-off just about her and her men. i could also listen to her voice the whole day, her voice actress did such a fantastic job on her!!

the omake was such a cute way to move away from all the dark themes though. i loved it so much 10/10

i also read the link that you sent about the gender roles! really interesting to read about how revy and rock seemed to fill different roles in the anime, and it explains a lot of their actions too. rei hiroe definitely does a fine job with his female cast

and feel free to let me hear about your opinions too!

[fanfictionnerdfortoomanythings]

i have been waiting SO LONG TO DO THIS but i'll give my top 15 (sorry i'm late) also these are not in order.

Into The Light Once Again - season 2 art is STUNNING, love the romance + amazing family! Backstory is sad though. [8/10]]

Death Is The Only Ending For The Villainess - sad and dark, but amazing art and plot. also- as a novel reader- DON'T TRUST ANYONE. [7/10]

Who Made Me A Princess - complete, beautiful art and the plot develops really well. if you haven't heard of this you probably live under a rock. [8.5/10]

My Mother Gets Married Again - the mother regresses, but it's from the daughters pov. STUNNING art, and its new but i love it already. [8/10]

I'll Be The Matriarch In This Life - LOVELOVELOVELOVE i adore this, art is clean and pleasing to look at, family and romance is *chefs kiss* and i would die and kill for Clerivan and Larane. also legit has the best dad in manhwa history, everyone agrees. [9.5/10]

I Will Change The Genre - adore the characters and the art is so pleasing to look at! romance is well developed, and main character is so pretty!! few plot twists too. [7.5/10]

Your Majesty, Please Don't Kill Me Again - TRUST NO ONE EVERYONE IS HORRID but love it to death, art is WAY too cute for the story. amazing plot, slowest burn ever. [9/10]

Second Life Of A Trash Princess - ART IS SO PLEASING and love the story so much! i simp so hard for female lead and although male lead is dumb af, love him. also the story is really good! [9/10]

A Stepmothers Märchen - GOD THE ART IS SO PLEASING we stan art improvement. story WILL get dark later on, but romance is well developed. also i feel HORRIBLE for female lead. [8/10]

The Reason Why Raeliana Ended Up At The Duke's Mansion - completed, and a classic. getting an anime adaption this year (!!!!!) but i will hold the comic dear to my heart. decent art, AMAZING story and really lovable characters! [8.5/10]

Inso's Law - most meta isekai i've ever read, but love it! be ready for the love pentagon, but honestly i love all the characters. wish it was a gl, cause yeoryeong deserves female lead the most. [7/10]

Trash Of The Count's Family - a man isekais for once! read the novel before the manhwa, so be ready for a LONG, INSANE ride. love everyone, simp SO HARD for cale, and the art is amazing. [7.5/10]

The Villainess Is A Marionette - GODLY ART, best art i've ever seen in a manhwa, and while it takes around 50 chapters, the plot is REALLY picking up right now! still, the entire story is great - the obsessive younger brother, though he's hot af. [8/10]

How To Get My Husband On My Side - the art is really pleasing, but can also disturb you. it has some REALLY triggering topics like @buse and anor3xia, as well as a DISGUSTING family with a HORRIBLE brother who is GROSS AND I HATE HIM. but male lead is AMAZING, you might hate him at the start but he's BRILLIANT and i simp for him and ruby SO MUCH. also annoying villainess, but the REAL villain is that BROTHER- anyways i ADORE THIS, so PLEASE READ IT IF YOU HAVEN'T! season 2 is yet to release, so it's a great time to catch up! [9.5/10]

Secret Lady - BRILLIANT art, and the story is so well developed! fan translations are horrible, but i still love the story and honestly, just looking at the panels explains the whole story. [8/10]

That's all for now! If you need anymore i have a doc with 130+ manhwas on it- so please ask if you need them!

Sorry is this is formatted terribly, I'm not used to this-

I read most of my comics on zinmanga, but i do say that if you can afford it, PLEASE support the official translations. i personally can't, but at least follow their instagrams/twitters!

Also bonus thing-

READ OMNISCIENT READERS VIEWPOINT I *BEG*

thats all for now!

I lied, here I was saying that I only liked isekai manhwa and crimeboys but I've officially deep-dived through like 50 other fandoms, so expect my dash to completely change fandom-wise out of literally nowhere. the tags are just full of fandoms I am invested in.