#this is why I roll my eyes when stansas cry about the hate Sansa gets cause they want to assign unreasonable blame to every other character

[fromtheseventhhell]

Not Arya, Robb, and Jon catching strays for not "warning" Sansa about Joffrey?? As though they didn't all meet him at the same time and have equal opportunity to understand what he was like?? It just blows my mind that somehow everybody can be blamed for her actions regarding Joffrey but Sansa herself. Apparently, she can't be expected to understand anything because nobody sat down and slowly explained everything to her using small words (not even when Ned does just that lol). And then they just ignore the fact that Sansa had a crush on Joffery and actively wanted to marry him? To the point of excusing his behavior when she witnessed his cruelty first-hand? Then they pretend that she was just "coping" with her engagement when she actively argued against Ned breaking it and went to Cersei because she thought she could stop him from doing so. There's no way they like her actual character if this is what they have to come up with to cope with her writing.

[alinaastarkov]

I hate how stansas are all like "Sansa will become a genius at the game of thrones, but she'll keep her moral compass so she'll be the perfect queen". First, they should stop pushing that stupid idea that being good at the game is the same as being a good ruler, it just isn't. Second, Sansa's compassion is not nearly as significant as to say it will definitely stop her from playing dirty, she is not the mother theresa fandom thinks she is. And third...

[Cont.d] ...ALL the characters are getting darker next book, I'm an Arya fan and I'm mentalizing to face that she'll do dark stuff next book, Why tf would Sansa be above the rest? For god's sake she's gleefully following a plan for her personal benefit that relies on her own cousin dying without feeling too sad about it. Among other things. Sansa is not that special, she'll get her hands really dirty just like the rest and being naive isn't going to be an excuse.

Yeah it is kind of infuriating. Aside from the game, which I’ll get to in a minute, we are told constantly that being a leader requires a certain hardness, a willingness to do morally questionable things, that it leads to a colder or darker personality given the difficult decisions, and makes the leaders lament their lost naivety and wish they still had little responsibility.

Look at Jon:  

You would weep as well if you had a son and lost him, Sam almost said. He could not blame Gilly for her grief. Instead, he blamed Jon Snow and wondered when Jon's heart had turned to stone. Once he asked Maester Aemon that very question, when Gilly was down at the canal fetching water for them. "When you raised him up to be the lord commander," the old man answered.

- Samwell III, A Feast for Crows

Jon felt as stiff as a man of sixty years. Dark dreams, he thought, and guilt. His thoughts kept returning to Arya. There is no way I can help her. I put all kin aside when I said my words. If one of my men told me his sister was in peril, I would tell him that was no concern of his. Once a man had said the words his blood was black. Black as a bastard's heart. He'd had Mikken make a sword for Arya once, a bravo's blade, made small to fit her hand. Needle. He wondered if she still had it. Stick them with the pointy end, he'd told her, but if she tried to stick the Bastard, it could mean her life.

- Jon VI, A Dance with Dragons

It’s stated, plain as day, that Jon becoming Lord Commander marked the end of his days being, for want of a better word, kind and emotional, as he started having to make tough decisions that would not please everyone and would absolutely break some, but were necessary to keep his people safe and ensure victory. In the second quote, we see this sense of duty and coldness over emotion also applies inwardly, as he curses the fact that he can’t help Arya when he desperately wants to. Choosing to help Arya is ultimately what cause his death too, and coming back from that will only make him even darker.

Let’s look at Dany too:

She dreaded what must come next, yet she knew she had put it off too long already. Yunkai and Astapor, threats of war, marriage proposals, the march west looming over all . . . I need my knights. I need their swords, and I need their counsel. Yet the thought of seeing Jorah Mormont again made her feel as if she'd swallowed a spoonful of flies; angry, agitated, sick. She could almost feel them buzzing round her belly. I am the blood of the dragon. I must be strong. I must have fire in my eyes when I face them, not tears.

- Daenerys VI, A Storm of Swords

"No . . . no." He shook his head. "I never meant . . . forgive me. You have to forgive me."

"Have to?" It was too late. He should have begun by begging forgiveness. She could not pardon him as she'd intended. She had dragged the wineseller behind her horse until there was nothing left of him. Didn't the man who brought him deserve the same? This is Jorah, my fierce bear, the right arm that never failed me. I would be dead without him, but . . . "I can't forgive you," she said. "I can't."

"You forgave the old man . . ." [...]

“Remove this liar from my sight,” she commanded. I must not weep. I must not. If I weep I will forgive him. Strong Belwas seized Ser Jorah by the arm and dragged him out. When Dany glanced back, the knight was walking as if drunk, stumbling and slow. She looked away until she heard the doors open and close. Then she sank back onto the ebony bench. He's gone, then. My father and my mother, my brothers, Ser Willem Darry, Drogo who was my sun-and-stars, his son who died inside me, and now Ser Jorah . . .

"The queen has a good heart," Daario purred through his deep purple whiskers, "but that one is more dangerous than all the Oznaks and Meros rolled up in one." His strong hands caressed the hilts of his matched blades, those wanton golden women. "You need not even say the word, my radiance. Only give the tiniest nod, and your Daario shall fetch you back his ugly head."

- Daenerys VI, A Storm of Swords

One would be dead before the sun went down. No queen has clean hands, Dany told herself. She thought of Doreah, of Quaro, of Eroeh … of a little girl she had never met, whose name had been Hazzea. Better a few should die in the pit than thousands at the gates. This is the price of peace, I pay it willingly. If I look back, I am lost.

- Daenerys VIII, A Dance with Dragons

Dany has not been as affected by Jon, she is still a young girl with a lot of hope and sympathy, but it’s clear throughout that she takes being queen to heart and she knows that means showing strength at times rather than tears. Much like with Gilly, Dany has to make the hard decision with Jorah, even if she wanted to pardon him. He was not contrite so she could not forgive him without seeming weak or foolish. And we see this internal struggle again with the fighting pits, a practice she abhors, but knows she must endure it for her people. Being a leader, she makes tough decisions and has to desensitise herself as much as possible, and Winds promises that she will be darker too.

Hell, we even see this happen with Robb.

Only Robb and baby Rickon were still here, and Robb was changed. He was Robb the Lord now, or trying to be. He wore a real sword and never smiled. His days were spent drilling the guard and practicing his swordplay, making the yard ring with the sound of steel as Bran watched forlornly from his window. At night he closeted himself with Maester Luwin, talking or going over account books. Sometimes he would ride out with Hallis Mollen and be gone for days at a time, visiting distant holdfasts. Whenever he was away more than a day, Rickon would cry and ask Bran if Robb was ever coming back. Even when he was home at Winterfell, Robb the Lord seemed to have more time for Hallis Mollen and Theon Greyjoy than he ever did for his brothers.

- Bran IV, A Game of Thrones

This rings extremely close to Jon not sitting and eating with his friends as he used to. So, even ignoring the game of thrones cause none of these are playing it, being a leader creates a sterner, harder person than when they weren’t leaders, and this isn’t even everyone we see this in. Same happens with Bran for a time, Tyrion, Arya, etc. so there’s no way that if Sansa ever became queen she can stay the perfect little ray of sunshine who makes no bad or questionable decisions they all think she is (not that this was ever really the case).

We are constantly told the game of thrones is a bad thing.

"Oh, but it was, my lord," Cersei insisted. "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground."

- Eddard XII, A Game of Thrones

"Rhaenys was a child too. Prince Rhaegar's daughter. A precious little thing, younger than your girls. She had a small black kitten she called Balerion, did you know? I always wondered what happened to him. Rhaenys liked to pretend he was the true Balerion, the Black Dread of old, but I imagine the Lannisters taught her the difference between a kitten and a dragon quick enough, the day they broke down her door." Varys gave a long weary sigh, the sigh of a man who carried all the sadness of the world in a sack upon his shoulders. "The High Septon once told me that as we sin, so do we suffer. If that's true, Lord Eddard, tell me … why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones? Ponder it, if you would, while you wait upon the queen. And spare a thought for this as well: The next visitor who calls on you could bring you bread and cheese and the milk of the poppy for your pain … or he could bring you Sansa's head.

- Eddard XV, A Game of Thrones

"As to that Wall," the man went on, "it's not a place that I'd be going. The Old Bear took the Watch into the haunted woods, and all that come back was his ravens, with hardly a message between them. Dark wings, dark words, me mother used to say, but when the birds fly silent, seems to me that's even darker." He poked at the fire with his stick. "It was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell. But the old wolf's dead and young one's gone south to play the game of thrones, and all that's left us is the ghosts."

"The wolves will come again," said Jojen solemnly.

- Bran II, A Storm of Swords

Marillion's face seemed to float before her, the bandage pale across his eyes. Behind him she could see Ser Dontos, the crossbow bolts still in him. "No," Sansa said. "Please."

"I am tempted to say this is no game we play, daughter, but of course it is. The game of thrones."

I never asked to play. The game was too dangerous. One slip and I am dead. 

- Sansa I, A Feast for Crows

He did not like the taste of this. It smelled of deceit, of whispers and lies and plots hatched in the dark, all the things he'd hoped to leave behind with the Spider and Lord Littlefinger and their ilk. Barristan Selmy was not a bookish man, but he had often glanced through the pages of the White Book, where the deeds of his predecessors had been recorded. Some had been heroes, some weaklings, knaves, or cravens. Most were only men—quicker and stronger than most, more skilled with sword and shield, but still prey to pride, ambition, lust, love, anger, jealousy, greed for gold, hunger for power, and all the other failings that afflicted lesser mortals. The best of them overcame their flaws, did their duty, and died with their swords in their hands. The worst …

The worst were those who played the game of thrones.

- The Queensguard, A Dance with Dragons

Even Sansa herself is used to tell us this game is a bad thing, that the smallfolk suffer for it, and those who play it are destined to fall. And we are also shown that those who play are poor leaders because they allow the smallfolk to suffer as they play. The characters who do play the game - Cersei, Tywin, Tyrion (sort of), Varys, Littlefinger - are all either morally questionable or straight up villains. Why do all these people so desperately want that for their fave?

This question of Sansa’s actual compassion has often been asked and I think it’s clear that her compassion has a limit. It does not extend to people below her social class, and it gets exasperated very quickly. Look at Jeyne Poole and more importantly Sweetrobin. She wants to keep this kid away from her, so locks him out of her room even though she knows he goes to her for comfort as his mother just died and he suffers from seizures. So, no, she’s not the most compassionate anyway, and she already has begun to play dirty. If she ever becomes a leader, as illustrated above, this will only get worse. 

We have all accepted that our faves are going down darker paths. Tyrion is already there, Dany is bound to and honestly we can’t blame her, and most of us are actually excited to see Jon and Arya’s darker paths. Sansa is closer to it than Arya is already, and I’m excited to see how grey she is going to become. This complexity is what makes good characters, and the expectation that Sansa, whatever scenario she’s in, will suddenly become perfectly innocent and pure when she never was before, and we can clearly see no-one is getting lighter, is completely ridiculous. The rabid stansas may never change their minds, but Winds will prove this to them at least, if we ever get it.