#this is why I hate how people misuses those types of quotes about neutrality in this fandom

[plan-d-to-i]

Just another post to justify JC ignoring life debts toward the Wen Siblings. Funny enough, this person thought WQ would achieve anything by voice her disagreement with WRH becoming the overlord. Or they thought WQ would totally be fine to go against WRH publicly (then again by helping WWX and JC, she and WN did go against WRH in secret and NMJ didn't know that because the ungrateful grape didn't bother to explain how he and WWX owned them).

And hey, so follow this person's logic, because WQ kicked JC and WWX out, so JC didn't own WQ that much (even though she let them stay for three days, took care of their wounds and didn't rat JC and WWX out to WC). Cool, but what about WN? He is the reason JC still alive and be able to retrieve his parents' bodies to do his filial duty. If that life debt is still small for this person to deem not worth for gratitude, then next time if anyone ever offer these types of helps to this person and JC, they shouldn't accept them.

I'm sorry this person and even NMJ are so stupid and insensitive to unable to imagine how dangerous it is for people who live under a tyrant regime to even do a tiny act of protests. Like they expected people to forfeit their lives and families to go against the regime that would wipe them out easily.

I'm almost impressed by how effectively they miss the actual message of the story Re: indiscriminate mass revenge against people is not simpatico...🥲. Bc by their logic killing Granny Wen and A Yuan is fine eh- bc Wens. NMJ is a hothead and he generally has the most extreme opinions.

I think ppl often forget too that Lan Xichen speaking up means something. It means something because The Cloud Recesses were burned down by the Wens. His father died because of them. He and his brother almost died as well, and they were never the recipients of their aid as jiang cheng was.

But above all WWX's words are the most meaningful.

"Wei WuXian, “Did I say something wrong? Forcing living people to be bait and beating them up whenever they refused to obey—is this any different from what the QishanWen Sect does?”

Another guest cultivator stood up, “Of course it’s different. The Wen-dogs did all kinds of evil. To arrive at such an end is only karma for them. We only avenged a tooth for a tooth, letting them taste the fruit that they themselves had sown. What’s wrong with this?”

Wei WuXian, “Take revenge on the ones who bite you. Wen Ning doesn't have blood on his hands. Don’t tell me that you find them guilty by association?”

and

Wei WuXian grinned, “Oh. The Wen-dogs did all kinds of evil, so anyone whose surname is Wen can be killed? That’s not it, is it? Many of the clans who defected from the Wen Sect are quite well-off right now, aren’t they? In this hall, isn’t there a few sect leaders from clans that used to be under the Wen Sect’s wing?”

As the sect leaders saw that he recognized them, their expressions changed at once. Wei WuXian continued, “Since anyone whose surname is Wen can be used an outlet of anger as one pleases, no matter if they’re innocent or not, does it mean that it’s fine even if I kill all of them right now?”

How do people not understand that MXTX had the mc say all of this to point out ppl's hypocrisy. To point out how their kind of thinking is wrong?

Back to that post: "Like what could Wen Qing and Wen Ning possibly have don't to cancel out the Wen Sect's huge responsibility for the massacre of the Jiang Sect" ... 🌝... yes, see this would be the moment for jiang cheng to open his mouth and explain how they were not involved in what happened at LP other than to save his sorry ass.

Love how they cut off the most relevant quotes about WQ too :

I’m the office leader of Yiling, but I was ordered to take the position. I’m a medic, an apothecary, I’ve never killed anyone, much less touched the blood of the Jiang Sect.”

It was true. Nobody had heard of any lives lost by Wen Qing’s hands. There were always many cases that people wanted her to take over. It was because Wen Qing was one of the Wen Sect’s people whose way of doing things was actually normal. At times she could even put in a few good words for people in front of Wen RuoHan. Her reputation had always been good.

and

Although the pack of herbs smacked right onto Wen Ning, he spoke happily, “The medicine that my sister prepared will definitely turn out good. Hundreds of times better than mine. It’ll be good for sure.”

Wei WuXian finally felt relief, “Thank you.”

He understood the fact that one of these siblings deciding to turn a blind eye to them and the other deciding to outright help them meant that they were placing themselves in extreme danger. Just as Wen Qing said, if Wen Chao truly wanted to kill anyone, it was unlikely for Wen Qing to be able to stop him. Perhaps she’d be affected as well. After all, children of others could never compare to children of one’s own.

and instead went w : "She herself is aware of her choice when she tries to kick Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian out so as to not get Wen Ning and their house in trouble." Hm... yes she's aware, exactly, AND SHE DOESN'T KICK JIANG CHENG AND WEI WUXIAN OUT. THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT. ( Φ ω Φ )

[argentdandelion]

It’s Okay to Hate Alphys

Or: We All Have Favorite Characters For Different Reasons

In brief: It's impossible for everyone to have the same experiences, preferences and personality. So, when empathy, liking or "relatability" for fictional characters is based on that, it's Okay to Hate Alphys.

Made with the help of interviews from CinnamonAzzy, Cyanidelemonade, Cielenneige, Ihasafandom, The-keeper-of-round-things, Batter-sempai, Flyingwerekitty, Overdoseofdt, Saltedcarrots01, and Strongfish9-1.

Warning: Contains minor angst. The explanation as to why some fans hate Alphys may also be painful to those who identify with Alphys.

Why People Like Alphys

Undyne: "What is like about you is that you're PASSIONATE! You're ANALYTICAL!! It doesn't matter what it is! YOU CARE ABOUT IT!! 100-PERCENT! AT MAXIMUM POWER!"

Many people consider Alphys “likeable” and “relatable”. There’s a lot of overlap between the two, but a character that is “relatable” has similar traits or has been in similar situations to the reader, while being “likeable” can also mean the character embodies traits the reader admires (whether the reader also has those traits or not).

Alphys is not simply shy, but also very anxious. This personality flaw is a big factor on why people think she is "relatable”, as most viewers can recognize anxiety's place in their lives and are closely familiar with it. Her anxiety isn't her only problem: it's heavily implied she has depression and occasionally suicidal thoughts.1 Alphys's flaws are said to make her "realistic", and reflect the viewers themselves if they also have those mental problems. Alphys' general perpetual anxiety contributes to her other traits, too, such as her specific social anxiety, and wanting to please others with her inventions because she otherwise feels useless.

Alphys shares interests with a lot of people on Tumblr; on Tumblr a love of Japanese entertainment is probably more common than, say, stamp-collecting. Indeed, she doesn’t simply like anime, but is absolutely passionate about it; one fan even even calls it a “hyperfixation”. This similarity instantly makes people like her and empathize with her. Adding onto that, she shares particular character flaws with real people.

Meta-textually, one fan enjoyed that she was a woman (read: adult monster that goes by “she”) who was “imperfect” and “allowed to make mistakes”, especially a bi woman with a unique body type (e.g., a hunched-over, chubby dinosaur). The same fan also liked how she was allowed (meta-textually) to be geeky and brilliant, without making her conventionally attractive, and thought how she represented anxiety and depression was really important.

Why People Dislike Alphys

Mettaton CORE Speech: "Alphys has been playing you for a fool the whole time. As she watched you on the screen, she grew attached to your adventure. She desperately wanted to be a part of it. So she decided to insert herself into your story. She reactivated puzzles. She disabled elevators. She enlisted me to torment you. All so she could save you from dangers that didn't exist. All so you would think she's the great person...that she's not."

To other fans of Undertale, the very traits that make Alphys so “relatable” also make it difficult to empathize with her, or even like her.

A big part of Alphys’ character is her persistent high anxiety and low self-esteem. This likely motivates, causes, or contributes to other traits. One fan, despite liking how she gave representation for depression, found it sometimes “difficult to read”, and felt something akin to second-hand embarrassment because of it.

Though Alphys is desperate to have friends, her anxiety and low self-esteem pose big obstacles. (She may very well have imposter syndrome, in fact.) Some find her “clinginess” and desperation to have friends unappealing, or even embarrassing. Alphys was certainly hasty: one fan pointed out she outright took Frisk’s phone and added herself as Frisk’s friend on the Undernet, and the fan disapproved of this. (regardless of what Frisk thought)

To a degree, Alphys is also selfish: she never did anything maliciously and never wanted to hurt anyone, but she did, many times, because she was only thinking about how things would affect her. (e.g., the Amalgamates) One fan even claimed that, for all the good things she did, she didn’t do it out of “the goodness of her heart”. More specifically, she made Mettaton his body, but put off finishing it because she feared Mettaton would leave her when she was done, and though she helped Frisk through Hotland and the CORE, she set up many of the hazards and obstacles herself.

In contrast to Alphys’s apparently anxiety-driven desire to make herself useful to others, some fans find her habit of trying to making herself look better than she really is (despite being a mechanical genius already) unappealing. On a related note, she also lies and deceives, frequently, whether it’s to make herself look like a better, more likable, more competent person or just to avoid facing shame and disapproval. She tried to make herself look better than she really was with a “malfunctioning killer robot” scheme and by bringing up hazards and obstacles for Frisk, just so she could guide them through it and build her friendship with Frisk (as well as just play the hero).2 This was deceptive, as was lying to Asgore about making a robot with a soul and hiding away the Amalgamates from their families.

Though her flaws and passions are said to make her “realistic”, some fans consider her constant anxiety and characteristic anxious stuttering “realistic” in a bad way. Some fans prefer fictional works that omit the bad parts of reality, either because they’re painful reminders or simply because, in the case of stuttering, it’s annoying to have to read out. In fact, there are fans who feel annoyed not because she stutters, but because she stutters unrealistically.

Strangely enough, the very flaws and passions said to make her “realistic” also lead people to deride her for being a walking otaku stereotype. To be specific, she is not merely passionate about anime: she gushes on and on about her favorite anime, covers her room in posters, and collects anime figurines; she is also anxious, practically a shut-in, and eats ramen.3 (Contrast this to Undyne, who also loves anime) One fan, meta-textually, disapproves or dislike Alphys both in-universe and out-of-universe, viewing her as an example of the handsome Toby Fox's misuse of tropes.

Conclusion

Empathy, unlike compassion, requires figuratively “putting oneself in another’s shoes”, and it’s often dependent on whether others have had similar experiences. It could be that some people just have personalities or experiences that are too different from Alphys’ to empathize with her. Indeed, some people who had similar problems to Alphys (e.g., social anxiety, low self-esteem) responded to them differently from Alphys and disapprove of her actions, so even this similarity isn’t enough to identify with her.

Others emphasize with her, but not to the point of identifying with her or finding her "relatable". Some people thought Alphys’s choice of hiding the Amalgamates away was justifiable, or understandable. Other people point out that it wasn’t her fault all the monsters melted together, but still fault her for not disclosing what happened to the monsters’ families sooner.

Alphys is a complex character; her mixture of traits invoke a broad variety of reactions. Some reactions are a simple, “I love Alphys! She’s so relatable!”, or a “I don't really hate Alphys but I don't like her very much” or even a more nuanced “I sympathize with her issues, but she sure executed that poorly”.

Thus, one should remember: while hating a fictional character is harmless, one should always ask why one holds that opinion, and always remember there are consequences to being mean to real "Alphyses" of the world.

If either Mettaton or Undyne are killed in the Neutral endings, she "disappears". In the King Mettaton ending, she's nowhere to be found even though Mettaton certainly looked. If one calls Papyrus near Waterfall's abyss, Undyne will talk about meeting Alphys and haltingly says Alphys stared over the edge while looking “contemplative”. ↩︎

Not that different from Syndrome from The Incredibles making a killer robot just so he can defeat it, actually, though Frisk was never actually in danger. (and other parts of Syndrome's plan aren't like Alphys' at all) ↩︎

Full disclosure: the author of this article also fits some of these parameters, and loves cheap ramen. ↩︎