#this is targeted at you filoni

[ct-hardcase]

been seeing a lot of tcw criticism lately where I want to grab the person by the shoulders and go "the kids show justification isn't a justification for everything but it's absolutely the answer to about 75% of what you're complaining about right now"

[david-talks-sw]

I was watching the Clone Wars featurette about the Holocron arc and Dave talks about the scene where Bane threatens to kill Ahsoka. He says "we're seeing a dark side of Anakin, and in a very clear illustration of why Jedi should not have attachments, we see that attachment get exploited." So clearly at what point in time he understood the whole attachment thing. What happened?

Unlike Karen Traviss, I think Dave Filoni actually understands what "attachment" means, in Star Wars. Apparently, it's the Star Wars theme that he and George spoke the most about.

"The biggest area of the Force and the Jedi [that] George and I have gotten into discussing the whole deal with attachments. And, arguably, that's what Anakin whole life is hinged on, is this - like you've mentioned - he has a lot of attachments to Artoo and how how right or wrong is that? Is it that the Jedi have made themselves dispassionate, that they are actually deceived by the Sith and they fall apart?" - Dave Filoni, Rebel Force Radio, 2012

What I've noticed is that, while understanding the meaning of attachment... Filoni doesn't seem to agree that the Jedi embody the concept of compassion.

He has acknowledged sometimes that "attachment is bad" is the theme of Anakin's story (but question if it's really so bad, unlike Lucas who says it's understandable but bad) but disagrees that the Prequel Jedi represent the obvious counter-theme, "compassion is good."

If you read what Filoni says, he argues that:

The Jedi have lost their way, taken the "rid yourself of attachment" rule and pushed it to an extreme where they've rid themselves of any empathy and thus compassion. They've focused so much on being selfless that they've forgotten how to love.

All except for Qui-Gon, who is the only one that truly knows how to love without getting attached, to love selflessly.

And personally, that strikes me as a coping headcanon, a way of reconciling the theme and feeling the Jedi like Mace, Ki-Adi, even Yoda and Obi-Wan are stoic, unlikable and too different from Luke.

Sure, they're not perfect, but nowhere in the films is the Jedi's stance on love framed as "bad" by the narrative. The narrative agrees with their philosophy, and George echoes it.

In fact, among 772 collected George Lucas quotes, I've never seen him state that theme while adding the asterisk that "of course, the Jedi of the Prequels have forgotten how to be compassionate, except for Qui-Gon who was the true Jedi."

And of course he doesn't do that. Because doesn't that muddy the waters so much?

Supposing Qui-Gon truly is the only character that embodies the concept of "compassion"... doesn't killing him off in the first film confuse a targeted audience of children?

Bearing in mind that the Prequels are about how greed makes people and institutions become the very thing they swear to destroy, and Star Wars as a whole is about being selfless instead of selfish:

In one corner, we have Anakin and the Senate showing what you're not supposed to do.

In the other, you got Padmé, Shmi and the Jedi, showing you what you should do instead.

Simple. I can see a kid getting this (and I did). But according to Filoni, that second point is incorrect. Instead, it's:

In the other, we have... Qui-Gon, who is one of the first film's four protagonists that dies at the end, without openly stating anything about the trilogy's theme. Theoretically, there's the Jedi who state and address the theme, but they don't themselves embody it so they don't count. So really... in this corner we have nobody (?)

That seems overly complex, a whole lotta hoops to jump through. Doesn't make sense. But hey, good luck learning the lesson, kids.

So yeah, Dave Filoni gets what attachment means. He just doesn't think it's as bad as Lucas' films frame it as, and disagrees on the Jedi narratively embodying the concept of compassion.

And I think it's coping. It's connecting non-existent dots, Always Sunny-style, to justify not liking characters that weren't meant to be developed much, due to their calm, collected nature and secondary/tertiary role in the story.

Coping and coming up with headcanons are what any irritated Star Wars fan does when they're confronted with something they're unable to make sense of.

“I care because I passionately believe that important stories ought to make sense.” As well you should—and when a story does not, you apply that passion to finding a way to make it make sense. [...] When a rational and inquisitive mind is confronted by the engaging yet irrational, it often responds in this manner. This process is not usually appreciated by those undergoing it; the most common reaction is a deep irritation. But isn’t that always how pearls are formed?” - Don DeBrandt, Star Wars on Trial, 2006

Unless they choose to make documentaries and click-baity YouTube video where they decide to spew hate and get angry pointlessly. Which I'd argue is still worse.

[dalekofchaos]

How do you fuck up a show about Boba Fett?

I will forever be baffled by how Filoni and Favreau botched Boba Fett's show nor will I ever forgive them for how they did Boba Fett dirty just to be used as a fucking stepping stone for Din and Grogu. Even worse is how Disney refuses to give Temuera Morrison the audience or time to grant him a season 2.

A Boba Fett show on paper should've been the easiest thing in the world. I already made a list of ways how season 1 could've been better. But here's a smaller list.

Boba Fett actually being a crime lord and acts like the ruthless bounty hunter only doing it on his terms

Give us flashbacks to Jango during the Mandalorian Civil War(bonus points. Jango killed Tor Viszla, but Deathwatch refused to give up the Darksaber. By rights Jango is the rightful ruler of the Darksaber and for that very reason is why the weapon is cursed with hints that because Boba is Jango's son, Boba Fett is destined to wield the Darksaber)

GIve us flashbacks of Daniel Logan during Boba's rise as a ruthless bounty hunter and you know, give us the cut Bounty Hunter arc via flashbacks

Keep the helmet on. He shouldn't even take it off for Fennec. If I wanted to see Temuera's face, I would advocate for a Captain Rex show. The mask IS BOBA'S FACE

Instead of being this dumbed down idiot who's more of a sheriff instead of a Godfather like criminal. Boba is 10 steps ahead of everyone. He knows how this game is played and will use the knowledge he's gained from his father and working with Jabba. Instead of being hunted down by the Syndicate, it's him hunting them down.

A good Boba Fett story is easy, it just needs proper execution.

He just needs to be a darker version of The Mandalorian. Instead of being on the run, he is hunting. Instead of showing mercy, he has little.

Where Din and Grogu are the heroes, Boba and Fennec are the clear seedier and morally grey figures.

Hell just make John Wick in space. Spice Syndicate gets ballsy and fucks up his little kingdom, so Boba Fett dons the helmet and doesn't take it off until he's dismantled the entire syndicate one boss per episode tracking them across their galactic network. And when the syndicate bosses thinks Boba's left them alive, Fennec is there to finish the job. Fennec's role is to assassinate targets that could cripple rival syndicates and enrich their own empire. You can have guest stars and cameos, which would be interesting to see pre-established characters react to his ruthless effective extermination. Hell, maybe some object so strongly they fight Boba Fett so the boss battle of an episode is against a good guy.

Or hell. If the rumors of Mace returning are true, maybe you could center the season around that. Mace Windu is Boba's Moby Dick and he's chasing him throughout the Outer Rim. But when he finds Mace, he's just a tired old man who cut himself off from the force after his failure. When the audience thinks Boba might forgive him and give up his vengeance, BAM! Boba shoots him dead. Boba has no mercy.

I mean this shit isn't hard to outline, which is why what we got was confusing.

Boba Fett in Mando was physically portrayed as even more of a threat than Din and took out SHIPS of stormtroopers single-handedly and morally he was honorable but still grey.

Now all of a sudden he's completely different. He constantly needs a bacta nap. He barely fires his weapons. He is easily duped by everyone. He wants to "rule with respect". He gets duped by everyone. And the out of place Mods.

You know what would've been an easy fix to all of this? No Din Djarin, no Grogu and it's all about Boba and Jango Fett.

Imagine instead of Din and Grogu. The Mandalorian was about Jango and Boba Fett. Jango is the Mandalorian and we see his back story and him training Boba.

It could’ve honestly been a generational story

S1: Jango story that fleshes out his time before the prequels to his death

S2: young Boba post prequels to his escape of the Pitt

S3 Boba’s journey post Pitt to after sequel timeline

[eothawne]

a lot of ppl think cx-2 was originally intended to be tech and then the writers backtracked… i don’t think that’s the case. honestly, i almost wish that was the case, because at least that would be less disrespectful than what i think they actually did.

i think the cx-2 was originally written less tech-like, and then more tech-like details were added after everyone saw the fan reaction and so many people speculating “no body no death.” i think this was a fan-prompted decision to generate hype and speculation. i think that even more than that, it was an attempt to keep the incredibly dedicated fan base tech had watching until the end, despite his death.

but it also feels like teasing the fans who thought he might be tech. saying “ha ha, you thought!” to the fans that know typical star wars plot points and enjoy those associated patterns in their stories. i understand subverting a trope or turning one on its head for the purpose of storytelling or trying to pivot into a different genre - but this seemed fan-targeted. not viewer-targeted - fan targeted. it makes me wonder if filoni even likes writing these stories anymore, or if he’s feeling stifled by the constraints in the universe (that he’s mostly created) and the associated canon-typical plot points. it has me worried.

[tired-night-owl]

Blood Runs Cold

Fandom : Star Wars The Bad Batch

One shot ?

I tried to write a small fic about Crosshair and Omega in the new promo that’s been released because I can’t wait to see them together in the new season even if I know my heart is gonna get crushed by Dave Filony again… Hopefully I am the opposite of last season and I am soooo wrong and they will all be reunited as a big family where no one dies or sacrifice themselves for the others ! Anyway I hope you enjoy :) 

Word count : 866

Summary : Crosshair has much to think about in his new conditions, what doesn’t help is when a far too bubbly and optimistic teenager comes and ruins his peaceful self pity moment.

Notes : brief mention of torture I guess, small but graphic description of tech’s death, Siblings!crosshair x omega, Spoilers for the new promo clip !

He noticed it a while ago, when they first started their wicked experiments on him. He tried to keep it under control mostly for his pride because seeing as with such a condition, his (now rendered useless) talent would be even more so wasn’t helping his morale. Crosshair didn’t mind it too much for now because not one clone in this cursed facility was in any shape or form to judge him in his misery. That is until the girl showed up. 

That child has been the sole cause for any misfortune he had to live though in the last couple of months he thought, but scolded himself to at least not make it show. She has enough to deal with too at the moment without having to suffer his endless wrath and sorrows. Still she cost him everything. His family, in more ways than one, his station, attempting to save her branded him a traitor and a VIP ticket to Hemlock’s test table and —

His mind went silent 

His brother Tech…. He had to give his life for hers. Skull smashed to pieces because they didn’t heed his warning. There's no way the batch can survive without its brain now. 

His mind whirled with thoughts like these locked in his dark cell all day. Some would say they were enough to drive a man insane but Crosshair already knew insane, and it wasn’t by his choice. Now he sees it, the effect that damn chip has had on him. How it made him turn on the only people who ever cared for him. He couldn’t turn on this one now. 

« Crosshair… »

« Crosshair ! I tried to come earlier, but there are too many guards watching me…»

He tried to calm his usually snappy tone for the sake of the girl who must be as terrified if not more than he is at the moment.

« You shouldn’t be down here at all » he tried to make her realize a little harsher than he wished.

It was foolish of her to put a target on her back by snooping around, on THEIR backs. In a situation like this where there is no hope, it’s best to comply and hope you die as painlessly as possible. Though that seemed unlikely for him at the hands of that sick scientist. But there might be hope for her yet if she stopped escaping her quarters.

The girl continued with her misplaced energy and optimism.

« How else are we gonna plan an escape ? »

An escape ?! Had she gone insane? Did she not realize they were in the middle of no where, in an unknown imperial playground, surrounded by guards with no moral compass except loyalty to the credits they earn at the end of each shift filled with screams of tortured people. Better to kill that idea in the egg before she gets too altruistic. 

The sniper resumed his usual cold and unapproachable attitude, hoping the girl would realize that planning an escape in a place such as this with only 1 ally was foolish already but with no one, it was simply stretching your neck to help the executioner do his job. 

« There is no WE, and there is no escape… I’ve already tried. » 

The young clone didn’t budge.

« Every stronghold has a weak point ! Maybe I could convince Emerie to help, she’s one of us. »

His brothers has taught her well he could tell, and by that he meant by filling her head with useless idiotic tactics and informations for a obviously changing galaxy. Besides if they shouldn’t trust one person in this Sarlac pit, it was HER. That double crossing scientist woman. Testing on people was bad enough but on her own « brothers » that was being a plain sociopathic hypocrite. 

« Not every clone is your ally ! » The sharpshooter reminded her.

« You trust too easily… »

He expected a reply and one sounding similar to that one too, so he doesn’t know why her words struck him so. 

« Maybe you don’t trust enough. » Omega replied with that same misguided hope as earlier.

An uncomfortable silence surrounded the two and then it started again : the shaking.

The stupid shaking he couldn’t stop. The best sniper in the whole GAR with quivering hands, how ironic. He felt uneasy having her see him like this. It was as if his own brothers could see how low he had fallen and for a prideful man like Crosshair, it was not an easy feat to overcome. 

« Crosshair ? »  The young girl asked after her gaze fell upon her brother hiding his hands from her. 

Not so long ago he would’ve snapped at her for simply seeing him in a state like this, desperately trying to steady his once reliable hands but now, he just didn’t have the heart or the energy to do so…

« Just… Go. » he simply said. 

« Before you make things worst for both of us… »

In this moment he came to the conclusion that yes, he didn’t want to be punished for the girl’s misbehaviour but he also mostly didn’t want her to suffer because of him. 

Knowing Hemlock, he wouldn’t even do it to punish Omega… but he would do unexplainable things to the girl to make HIM suffer. 

[supremechancellorrex]

Now, I gotta say, I find it interesting how there are some people that target you for stating your opinion on fiction. I've had this same Jedi-stan user sending me tens and tens of comments which are based on denial and opinion rather than any logical argument. Now, they're telling others not to read my arguments because... what, it's too scary? They literally reblog my post with a quite insulting argument and then quickly block me because they don't want me to respond.

Well, too bad.

This isn't even an argument based on logic. You just stated your opinion and acted like it was a fact, anyone else who believes differently is doing so "foolishly", more "foolishly" than a child apparently. Because despite much evidence to the contrary in children's media, apparently 'villains' never have any depth or say the truth ever, according to you.

Slick: "Yes, she offered me money. But she offered me something more important, something you wouldn't understand: freedom!"

You know the one thing Slick doesn't actually have? It's freedom. Because, he is a slave, that is a fact. Let's go through the fact that slave isn't a title you award but a state of existence and being, a slave by definition is: "a person who is forced to work for and obey another and is considered to be their property; an enslaved person." That is the clones to a T. Just because Slick was selfish doesn't just invalidate he described a situation which still has not been refuted and instead has been only proven over and over again.

Now, you say "the clones are property of the Republic", and they are under the command... of the Jedi, who are generals and part of the Republic command structure. Legally, the Jedi may not have a say in the fate of the clone troopers other than being in charge of their daily actions and organisation for years, but illegally? Are you claiming that the Jedi could not even think to organise a mass desertion? When the law is unjust, you challenge it, you break it. Now, you try to absolve them here by saying that they had no choice because the Separatists were a threat to the Republic, an institution that supports slavery for its own ends. You may hate it but "Cool motive, still slavery" still applies here. Any institution that supports having an enslaved army does not deserve to exist, and that includes the Jedi Order's support of the Republic.

As for your non-sequitur on the placement of the episode, this is just pointless. There is no basis to discount an episode just because it wasn't in Season 4. This adds nothing to your argument and is just a complete fallacy.

You can't really make this argument on a number of basises. One, the writing intentions have clearly changed since that initial George Lucas' quote decades ago. Not only this, but George Lucas doesn't even own Star Wars anymore and Disney are now in charge, with Dave Filoni and a number of other writers making significant contributions.

Dave Filoni: "So I think that trying to draw these paths of the Jedi and the choices they make and how they wind up good or bad … Yoda isn’t afraid in the prequels to say the Jedi are flawed and that they’ve become greedy and self-interested and arrogant. That helps you understand why they’re going to lose the Clone War and why they’re so ripe for the picking."

I think this quote speaks for itself. Also, I think it was very clear that George Lucas, a man well-known for changing his mind and who was still the executive producer, was on Ahsoka's side in the Wrong Jedi Arc. Otherwise at some point the narrative would have refuted her assertions on the Jedi Order, that's just basic storytelling.

Now, onto the clones. You essentially admit that the draft is essentially slavery in the clones' case. The clones are property and are referred to as such, they can't leave, they can't vote, they have no rights and this has been the case since they were fetuses in tubes. Let's look at Umbara again.

Fives: "We did it. We took Umbara."

Captain Rex: "What’s the point of all this? I mean, why?"

Fives: "I don’t know, sir. I don’t think anybody knows. But I do know that someday this war is gonna end."

Captain Rex: "Then what? We’re soldiers. What happens to us then?"

Considering the fact that the Senate are voting on whether to "decommission" the clones like a product in the Bad Batch, I think it's safe to say that Captain Rex's fears were confirmed. Senator Riyo Chuchi, an actual good person in a bad system, is literally fighting to give the clones any rights at all in the Bad Batch, and she is a lonely voice.

Riyo Chuchi: "[The Clones] are not droids to simply be shut down. These are soldiers who defended us, defended our worlds"

Meanwhile, when the Jedi wax on about the end of the War, they just assume they'll be fulfilling the same duties they did before the war. This is because the Jedi are privileged and are treated as citizens during the War, able to walk around completely uncumbered and engage on a conversational level with the elite. They can also leave the Order, especially if they break the code, which is not something allowed for the clones. They may be servants, but they aren't property, and they have more tools to push back and fight the Senate, which they can walk around freely in a venerated position. You practically say this throughout your argument. Over all, the Jedi are drafted, the clones are slaves. There is a difference in the power dynamic.

The Clone Wars waived the right to be dismissed solely as "It's just a superificial kids show, don't criticise" when it decided to deal with dark, serious topics, including the Republic's growing authoritarianism, political maneuvering, slaughter and murder. All those cases of the Jedi challenging their leaders simply make it more egregious that the Jedi never advocated for the clones to the same level. The fact Mace Windu is willing to fight tooth and nail for the Zillo Beast, however demonstrates no passion to fight for the clone rights, who are slaves soldiers under his command, is actually a pretty bad look. There are also clones that died around the same time as Even Piell, yet they get no rites either.

It's funny you mention Qui Gon Jinn because his opposition to the Jedi Council has been noted previously and it is a critique of the Jedi Order.

Dave Filoni: "I think Qui-Gon in a lot of ways represents the kind of path the Jedi are supposed to be on. He’s the one that’s the most compassionate. But he has no ambition to be part of the council. He feels he can’t do what he needs to do if he’s a part of that. That thinking and that philosophy is from what Dooku taught him. Dooku was a free-thinker and was looking out for people."

Oh, you know Dooku too? The guy who said "The Jedi blindly serve a corrupt Senate that fails the Republic it represents." Looks like he imparted some spirit to his Padawan. Ultimately, this actually supports my arguments that the Jedi Order have lost their way as an institution. Now, earlier you say it "sucks" the Jedi can't allegedly speak out because of the draft, at the same time you... have Jedi speaking out on every topic that isn't clones. Hmm.

Well, mademoiselle-cookie, you have crossed into antisemitic territory here and it's shockingly disgusting of you. The Jedi should not be considered an expy of Jewish people, because that would be really racist of the writers and very misrepresentative. Jewish people are not a fictional order of magic monks that wave lightsabers around, fighting wars with state-owned clone slaves, believe it or not. Going through your argument until now has been bearable, but this really takes the cake. I've warned people to stop using real-life minority groups as meat-shields for their fictional favs, however it seems that privileged people will often use minority groups instinctively for their benefit. The fact you accuse me, a mixed race gay man, as being the type to fall for Nazi lies because I critique the Jedi Order is just the icing on the cake.

Also, you argue "it's a kid's show" and then it's a direct allegory for the Holocaust, one of the darkest periods in human history, at the same time, huh? If this were the case, it would mean it's portrayal is even more important to critique without exception.

But, moving on from your just completely inappropriate allegory. So, the Jedi have a "choice" as you just state. That's much more the clones ever had and that is a privilege. You're essentially arguing for the Jedi to stand back and do nothing by choice while earlier you also argued that the Jedi had to do something in regards to the War as it was the moral choice but also that they 'don't' have a choice. Meanwhile, the Jedi were shown to be willing to overthrow Palpatine given the 'proper motivation', but due to their lack of compassion I guess the enslavement of millions of men such as the clones just wasn't important enough. Your argument falls apart because the Jedi did try to overthrew Palpatine in the end, just not for the slaves.

Using the "Bad guys lie" trope in an absolute capacity is also not an argument. You're just stating your opinion as a fact again and it's very 'convenient' your metric. I could reply "Good guys can be wrong and don't always tell the truth" and we'd, like your point, get nowhere.

Finally, an interesting point. There's no denying that Ahsoka did not make the situation as squeaky clean in her desperation, however ultimately my point still stands that Mace Windu, and I quoted him, said "I understand your sentiment, Obi-Wan. But, if the council does as you suggest. It could be seen as an act of opposition to the Senate. I'm afraid we have little choice."

At the end of the day, the Jedi do have a choice despite what Windu says. The choice was political. The ruling isn't unanimous, because doubts are expressed, but as Mace Windu says what they view as important in response to Obi-Wan saying things don't add up regarding Ahsoka is to focus how it looks to the Senate, a Senate that supports authoritarianism, corruption and slavery. The Jedi arguably lie to themselves and say they support justice, but they don't ultimately. As Jedi Master Dooku, the described "free-thinker", says: "The Jedi blindly serve a corrupt Senate that fails the Republic it represents."

Hmm, you don't seem to understand what an "unreliable narrator" actually is. With your use especially, every single character ever could be described as an unreliable narrator, I can describe Mace Windu as an unreliable narrator or Obi-Wan. I could literally flip your argument and claim the Jedi are unreliable narrators who only think they're doing good because they were raised in an environment which told them this from a young age and ultimately they were propping up a failing, authoritarian, corrupt 'Republic'.

I don't think you realise that Ahsoka's story would not have been presented the way it was in Season 7 if the narrative was not on her side. There were key cues in its structure and quotations that were critical of the Jedi Order, who were mostly in opposition to Ahsoka narratively.

Ahsoka: "This is why the people have lost faith in the Jedi. I had, too, until I was reminded of what the Order means to people who truly need us.” 

What a coincidence that Obi-Wan, a man gifted with the gab, fails to counter this criticism as well. Just like Slick.

We literally see the Jedi propping up the Republic system for the near entirely of the War. They allowed "the destruction of innocent life-forms", the clones, men brainwashed and forced into combat. They also conducted military investigations, deferred to the Senate, and I think it's very telling that Rex did not reveal Cut Lawquane's location to either the Jedi or the rest of the Republic. As Generals, they are a part of the hierarchy, and they support the Republic, a hegemony of laws and demarcations. Also, last I checked, Satine isn't a slave, I only wish Obi-Wan had gone out of his way to protect the clones as people, but I guess he only does that for citizens.

As for Order 66, again, this isn't an argument on your part. I'm well-aware of events, nor did I say they deserved to be murdered. The Jedi Order, specificially their leadership, made "poor choices" and it screwed them over. I also find your Nazi allegory more disgusting personally, but whatever. Now, let's see what the Jedi are actually doing.

Dave Filoni: "They’ve, as an institution, existed for a very long time. It doesn’t mean they’re evil or bad, but they’re making a lot of poor choices, and they can’t get out ahead of things in part because they’re desperately attempting to do things the right way and take an even stance.”

The centrist stance the Jedi take on most matters clearly contributed to their downfall. They made "poor choices" and I am critiquing them for it because allowing slavery at the heart of the Republic is not just a poor choice, but a stupid and immoral one. They are 'desperately attempting to do things the right way', but they don't, and this is why actual criticisms are levied at them. Again, I never argued the Jedi were evil, I argued they should be held accountable for their flaws and mistakes, like everyone should be.

I like how you completely misunderstood my point here despite many other people getting it. The problem is that the Jedi do have a choice, it's just a difficult one. However just because doing the right thing is difficult does not mean you shouldn't do it. The problem with the Jedi allowing countless clones, who are slaves, to die for years and that not prompt them to confront, combat or even overthrow the Republic is it makes them very morally bankrupt. As soon as the Republic said it was going to utilise slaves, the Jedi should have realised the Republic was the enemy of human decency itself. But, as we know from just watching Star Wars media with basic critical thinking or this exchange in Rebels...

Ezra: "Master Yoda, you’re powerful. You must know a way to destroy Vader and his Inquisitors.”

Master Yoda: “Padawan, thousands of Jedi once there were. Then came war. In our arrogance, joined the conflict swiftly we did. Fear, anger hate. Consumed by the dark side the Jedi were.”

I think you need to add more depth to your idea of "good". The Jedi were complicit in their own downfall. The fact you have to jump through so many 'logical' hoops to 'explain' and 'absolve' them is evidence enough. The fact you also dismiss all criticism of the Jedi as anti-Jedi propaganda, even when coming from its own members, from Yoda to Ahsoka, who clearly the narrative sides with. Now, as for your 'the citizens did nothing too' whataboutism argument? Yep. So, if you're arguing the Jedi are as bad as Republic citizens who also enabled clone slavery, then sure, a little 'harsh' of you, but that's what you're actually saying here. Plus, you keep both stating the Jedi have a choice and don't have a choice when it suits you throughout this argument.

And, regardless of whether the SW writers verbally acknowledge the word slavery, it is the story they present by saying the clones are "property" who "have no representation in the Senate". You should watch the Riyo Chuchi episodes in Bad Batch again, because this should be impossible to miss in the discussion of "clone rights". Your attempted use of 'rhetorical' questions instead of an actual argument is also pretty uninspired.

You literally didn't "debunk" anything, mademoiselle-cookie. As usual, you used ad hominem attacks, misused terminology, made antisemitic allegories, and now you're upset someone expressed an opinion you dislike. The fact you warn other people not to read my opinion as if you're the guardian of Jedi stan tumblr and they couldn't bear having someone make a post they don't agree with is also hilarious, I would hope people are full of sterner stuff. After all, people always have a choice, whether to read or not.

[ooops-i-arted]

I don't care to follow this show closely, but people in tags have been talking about it for weeks. Not surprising that the Ahsoka/Anakin reunion turned out disappointing and devoid of emotional depth, because what did I expect from Filoni and Disney Star Wars after all?

At this point, I just have to ask .... does Filoni know that he's supposed to be writing characters? Like people with personalities? Relationships between people with shared history? Dialogue that sounds natural coming from an individual with a functioning brain? Because we have characters like the live action Ghost Crew who are described as stilted and don't even act like they are close. We have Ahsoka and Luke scenes that feel hollow and tacked on, ("so much like your father" girl explain how something Luke said made you come to that conclusion or was it just for fans to get nostalgic about clone wars?). The last time Anakin and Ahsoka met, he tried to fucking kill her and we would think there would be more of a reaction from this. But no, the focus is on battle scenes and snarky clone wars skits.

Oh my bad, Filoni's target demographic is people weeping over the next cameo and something he poached from Legends. He can probably make something look like a flashy video game cutscene. But more effort is put into showing off choreography and making Ahsoka look like the bland, stoic and bestest OC ever, rather than writing something truly meaningful and it's really obvious.

The problem imo is that the fandom has acted like Filoni shits gold for so long Disney/Filoni has no incentive to improve. Every piece of nostalgia-laden schlock Filoni squeezes out of his butthole is treated as a masterpiece by the majority of the fandom. They have zero incentive to keep making fresh, original things like Mandalorian season 1 or Andor (haven't watched that yet, going by word of mouth) when low-effect TCW fanfiction makes the loudest Star Wars fans cream their pants.

Honestly I think the Ahsoka show is just Filoni playing with his dolls with all the high-end special effects at his disposal and still couldn't make Hera look halfway decent. Tbh I feel a bit bad for all the voice actors and animators who first brought these characters to life and gave them soul now being tossed aside for the new shiny live action versions, just because there's this idea that animation is less prestigious/for kids. Like I'm no fan of Ashley Eckleswhatever but there is no doubt she is dedicated to Ahsoka and the fans and I've heard tons of lovely things about her. Not to mention the Legends authors getting ripped off and no credit for their ideas. (Don't even get me started on Hayden Christensen. Okay, obviously I don't presume to know how he feels, hey if he's happy with this good for him and I 100% support him. But if I starred in the prequels and had my performance constantly mocked and maligned for years, finally returned to Kenobi and had tons of fans now cheering and praising me for an emotional reunion with the character & actor that were the heart of RotS..... I wouldn't exactly be thrilled to lick the orange butthole of some guy's fanfic OC next.)

(Also also I hate the TCW designs. In the 2D Clone Wars Anakin does not wear any armor, which imo much better shows how reckless and borderline arrogant he is about his abilities.)

[nicki0kaye]

We need to talk about expectations before Ahsoka comes out

there are two points that need to inform fans expectations;

its a goddamn miracle it exists At All

Clone Wars and Rebels fans are Not the target audience

Genuinely, no production, no creative project like Ahsoka has existed before. No cartoon for children gets to evolve into a full adult-centric live-action serial led by the same director. No cartoon for children based on and trusted to elaborate on a beloved blockbuster film franchise by the director and writer OF SAID FRANCHISE gets to evolve into a full adult-centric live-action serial, funded solely on the reception and merit of other live-action serials within that universe, ALL overseen by the cartoon’s original director.

I need you to understand the tight-rope the creative team has been walking these last few years, when you assess Ahsoka. 

I need you to understand the impossible expectations they are required to meet.

This is a show that is trying to tell and ultimately complete the stories of two series that no one fucking watched.

I know I watched it and you watched it, but Disney doesn’t care. We don’t make it enough money to fund this. It is entirely reliant on wide appeal. Its existence has been entirely reliant on the wide appeal of every previous Star Wars show to date.

I am genuinely amazed that they haven’t pulled the plug and that is a testament to the care, craft, and sacrifice the creative teams have made in the last several years. This has been a gauntlet of project management, where every creative choice has the possibility of kneecapping all future productions. There is only so much time in the day, so much mental load a group of writers and artists can expend, only so much oversight they can skirt while under constant scrutiny by the people funding their projects. 

Please, for the love of Bendu, understand that this show cannot be perfect, it’s going to be a goddamn wonder if its even good. It was not funded to appeal to you, but to people who only know Ahsoka from her Mando cameo. Not even her Boba cameo, her single Mando cameo. There is only so much Deep Lore that can be alluded to before that audience feels left out. Dave Filoni has not forgotten the stories he helped bring to screen, he is not being allowed to address them because it would alienate the target audience. It would be a bad idea on his part to make those references, so he doesn’t. Because he wanted to get This Far, and has FURTHER YET to go.

This is Monkey’s Paw levels of ‘Getting your heart’s desire within the Most Painful, Fucked Up of limitations’ and needs to be evaluated as such

[thecleverqueer]

I’m kind of glad that I decided to create a Star Wars Twitter lurker account because if I hadn’t, I would have completely missed this whole DinBo / Katee Sackhoff debacle.

Like… to preface, Katee says some crazy shit in interviews. She’s clearly joking around most of the time. I think it’s great, entertaining and funny. Katee is great. I mean, see the 2% comment among other crazy things that she has said in interviews. And during that particular interview (the 2% interview), she’d mentioned that “they’d” (not clarifying who, but my guess is her and Brendan Wayne) discussed a potential DinBo situation but that it wasn’t going to happen because of the whole Din-doesn’t-remove-his-helmet predicament.

So, I chuckle because 1.) Dave isn’t going to canonically pair his strong women with anyone “just because” his words, not mine and 2.) Narratively, DinBo just doesn’t make much sense as both Din and Bo are busy as shit doing their own things that are not going to be conducive to a romantic relationship… at least not now.

So… when I heard that Katee said that they’d cut out a kissing scene during that moment where Din pledged his loyalty to Bo on that ship on Mandalore, I was taken aback. Mainly because while I know there are A LOT of cishets that swear there were romantic subtexts in that scene, I just failed to see it. There could have been as there was ample opportunity. If Din had just touched Bo in that scene; a shoulder touch, a soft caress in the small of her back, I may have seen the touchdown, your het vision… but you horny hets are trying to throw a Hail Mary at a target that isn’t even there. He was, like, two feet from her the entire scene. And, we obviously could not see Din’s face or the look in his eyes as he said it. The body language, the looks, they weren’t screaming “BONE”.

But then, a day later, Katee had to clarify in a Tweet that it was all a joke. That Brendan Wayne helmet bumped her AS A JOKE and that it wasn’t planned or written anywhere that “the kiss” was supposed to happen… and Katee was completely surprised at how her words were so hopelessly twisted.

And, once again, this tells me two things that I already knew… 1.) Dave is NOT going to put his strong women in relationships canonically “just because”. The only way it will happen is if it is absolutely required to serve the story. A Din and Bo relationship would actually completely railroad the current direction of the narrative. 2.) Narratively, DinBo just doesn’t make much sense as both Din and Bo are busy as shit doing their own things that are not going to be conducive to a romantic relationship… at least not now. Bo-Katan is going to rule Mandalore. She’s going to have to stay on Mandalore primarily to do that. Her WHOLE ASS character arc has been about her calling to rule Mandalore after her sister’s death. This is the way. Din is going to train Grogu in the ways of the Mandalorians by bounty hunting for the New Republic. He didn’t even bother to set up his homestead on Mandalore for even periodic “I’m-in-the-neighborhood-so-let’s-nookie” time with Bo. He settled on Navarro with Grogu… just he and Grogu.

Side Note: I think it’s totally okay and fair for Katee to ship Din and Bo. She’s a cishet, and you guys do this. I think it should be taken with a grain of salt though. After all, Katee also said that Bo and Ahsoka would absolutely discuss that ass slap from the first time they met the next time that they got together, and I just can’t see that being a “narrative win” that Filoni would allow. Ultimately, Katee does not have any more clairvoyance into future stories than we do. I know this because when you work for a company that likes to keep secrets, they tell you absolutely nothing. She will know before we do, but she will also sign a NDA that will prohibit her from saying anything.

And, at the end of the day, you DinBo hets will probably forget all about DinBo if Din shows up in the Ahsoka series, and you’ll start shipping Din with Ahsoka then… which, also will not happen. But, I guess you can keep dreaming.

[mandalorymory]

Sabine Wren’s problem in Star Wars Ahsoka.

Sabine has been ruined.

And yes, I do just wanna state right away that OF COURSE I understand that Filoni is borrowing ESB’s interpretation of The Force. Resides in all being, you must open your mind, etc The Midichlorians thing established in TPM served little more than to provide needless scientific edge to The Force and made it more exclusionary, I’m glad it seems to go unused nowadays

My issue is that regardless of how feasible it is, Sabine really DID NOT need to take upon this whole arc of becoming a Jedi. While I do understand that this show isn’t supposed to be about The Mandalorians and we already have a show for this, it is bizarre how Sabine’s arc has taken such a radical change off course after Rebels. Her Mandalorian roots look like they have been utterly buried in favour of this new arc of her learning to become a Jedi, something that wasn’t remotely insinuated towards at any point in Rebels. I think we could agree that seldom anyone felt this is the course her character was going after Rebels, where the character’s arc was largely defined by her shamed past and building up to confronting past mistakes and fixing broken bonds with her people.

Sabine doesn’t really FEEL like the same character anymore. Out of everyone in the show, she has the most radically different course for her arc. You might seldom have even thought it was Sabine if it wasn’t for the armour she wore, pretty much the only reminder of what the character resembles from Rebels left.

Sabine was already a questionably convoluted character, by adding The Force and Jedism to her I believe Filoni has made this character a big red target for Mary Sue debates, which is something I was always afraid of for Sabine and something she was a target enough for as it is during the course of Rebels.

And furthermore, if Filoni wanted to have the classic “learning to be a Jedi” trope, I especially don’t see why he had to make Sabine the subject of this when Jacen is RIGHT THERE, practically BEGGING for it.

Throw in some general issues like the actors/material not being the best, and the problems just get a little more blatant. So even if one were to find this both a feasible and logical arc for Sabine, I think anyone can seldom say it was compelling. There was more gripping storytelling to Sabine in Trials Of The Darksaber, a single episode of Rebels, than there was to the entirety of this show.

Remember when Sabine was an explosives expert who liked graffiti and art? I did, I missed her for years. She’s been my favourite Star Wars character for years now, even back during the earlier Rebels years.

I was really disappointed to not find her again in Ahsoka.

[maxime-is-back]

I have no real strong opinions on Ahsoka, it's definitely better than Mandalorian season 3. I'm not necessarily looking forward to it each week (in fact I'm a few episodes behind) but at least I'm not bored, there's even some things I was genuinely excited by.

A lot of my issues with the writing were the same with Rebels but I'm maybe subconsciously less forgiving with a live action series than with an animated show (which was more open with the fact that its target audience was children)

I also believe the show should have had more writers, Filoni cannot write good dialogue by himself please just give him a hand! A more diverse set of writers probably couldn't hurt especially considering the cast and characters. (BREAKING NEWS: Local TTRPG guy thinks collaboration makes for better storytelling)

What I love about the show is that it's not ashamed of the prequel trilogy like a lot of Disney stuff has been. This was also not the case for mandalorian and obi-wan but I feel it even more here.

Anyway, can you believe it's been a year since ANDOR premiered??? Perfect show, no notes, you're doing amazing sweetie

[levitatingbiscuits]

Truly wild how people in this fandom will use any excuse to turn Star Wars content that isn't about Jedi to spout more anti Jedi takes. Like aren't these fans tired? I'm happy Andor is doing well in showing us just how cruel and terrifying the Empire is without needing to feature Favroni OCs in every other episode, and I hope it continues to do so. However that doesn't mean stories about Jedi and the Force are suddenly no longer meaningful to this universe? They were persecuted and nearly wiped out by fascist rule, you can't separate them from the horrors of the Empire. As an Asian person, I still see people constantly claim how values that are important to Buddhism are why Jedi deserved their own genocide. It's disgusting. Personally I'd love to see more of BOTH in the future, well written stories that focus on rebels and also on Jedi rebuilding their culture. Lbr we've barely had any Post ROTJ content really showing this.

Also anyone who thinks we've already had a lot of decent Jedi content is lying, not when Filoni is too busy giving us stories that don't do justice to Mace or anyone else from the council besides his OCs. I want Asian writers who are able to tell beautiful stories of the Force philosophy without misinterpreting "attachments" like so many Star Wars writers have already done. Like you all realize you can celebrate good Star Wars stories without bringing up how you are glad a religious group, nearly eradicated by the Empire, is absent and should stay absent in future Star Wars media? I've had enough.

Star Wars desperately needs Asian and Buddhist writers if we're ever gonna do the Jedi justice. Lucas tried his best on the philosophy, but he also used some clearly racist stereotypes when designing many alien characters. Plus the Bad Batch show apparently had an evil Asian character commit a sci fi Tiananmen Square, so Lucas's successors are also racist.

And the fandom is a massive shitshow. It is incredibly uncomfortable to see rhetoric used IN REAL LIFE to minimize or deny or victim blame victims of genocide in fucking fandom discussions. STAR WARS IS FOR KIDS, KIDS KNOW MASS MURDER IS EVIL, SO WHY THE FUCK CAN'T ADULTS GRASP THIS?

The Empire is evil BECAUSE it's genocidal. The Jedi were its first and primary target. We really deserve to see them rebuild and thrive, but what did Disney do? Kill them off AGAIN. Destroy their last remaining relics. What a great message for kids.

One reason I liked Visions so much was because it was clearly made by people who actually understand the real-life philosophy that inspired the Jedi, and thus actually appreciate them. And what did Western fans do? Whine about there being too many Jedi. In STAR WARS. Literally go watch something else, no one's stopping you.

I haven't seen Andor yet, but I'm glad it's good! I'm trying to avoid Star Wars burnout. I can't consume too many Star Wars things at once, and TV series are a huge time commitment. Plus I think it'll make me very sad, considering how poor Cassian's story ends :(

[starplusfourletters]

Imagining the early stages Clone Wars planning meeting where they realize 1) ALL their characters have established arcs and canon deaths 2) their characters are 90% men and 3) kids are the target audience for this show and the youngest character is 19 and problematic And someone has the idea to kill three birds with one stone But they’re also like “idk does Anakin Skywalker’s arc have room for a WHOLE OTHER RELATIONSHIP? Especially one that help but being at least a LITTLE bit filial? Like how are we actually going to pull this off??”  And someone at the other end of the table (presumably Dave Filoni) says, “How do you put an elephant into a refrigerator? You open the refrigerator door, put the elephant inside, and close the door.”

[rebelsofshield]

Star Wars The Mandalorian: “Chapter Twenty: The Foundling” - Review

The Mandalorian’s third season reaches its halfway point in an awkward and meandering chapter.

Now officially Children of the Watch, Din Djarin and Bo-Katan Kryze settle into their new roles in the fundamentalist Mandalorian faction. However, when a giant predator snatches up a Mandalorian foundling, the two must lead a rescue party across a hostile landscape.

Seasonal pacing is a pretty consistent issue with Star Wars television. For every standout episode or story arc, there seem to be several that do little but spin their wheels or tread water. The Mandalorian absolutely isn’t immune to this, but “The Foundling” may be the most aimless episode of the series ever produced.

This isn’t to say that the episode penned by both Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni doesn’t feature a plot. There is an episodic story that involves a giant dragon like predator snatching up young Mandalorians to feed to its young, but it’s the most literal of monster of the week plots. As wonderful as the effects and design of this creature may be and how solid Carl Weathers’s direction comes off, it’s just hard to find much of note about this entire adventure outside of its spectacle. Sure, we learn that the foundling we met in the season premiere is Paz Vizsla’s son, but considering that Paz is barely a character to begin with, the revelation doesn’t really mean much emotionally or thematically.

If “The Foundling” is trying to tell us a story, it’s about two people being welcomed into The Children of the Watch and how they adjust to this new place in their lives. The first, and arguably the foundling that the title refers to, is Grogu. Now committed to joining Din as a Mandalorian, his surrogate father begins to train him in the ways of the Mandalore, which at this point concerns dueling other children with paintball firing gauntlets. It’s a cute little moment and it’s fun to see Din acting the teacher again, but Grogu as a character is still hard to access. The puppetry work is phenomenal, but I’m never quite sure if I’m supposed to read him as a literal infant/toddler of if he’s at a more developed space mentally/emotionally. The show seems to want it both ways, reveling in the cuteness while hinting that he’s secretly more mature than we might assume, but it ends up confusing the issue.

This also ends up being a big episode for Grogu as we finally get a flashback that reveals how he escaped the purge of the Jedi Temple. However, like Obi-Wan Kenobi before it, the operatic tragedy of this moment that has been portrayed in Revenge of the Sith and even other media like The Clone Wars or Jedi: Fallen Order has been replaced with chaotic, CG heavy action. If last week’s Coruscant segments pushed the limits of The Mandalorian’s budget, the frayed edges are rapidly tearing in “The Foundling” with several shots feeling not unlike the horrendously dated green screen environments Attack of the Clones.

The big, buzzy reveal from this episode though is that Grogu was rescued by a relatively obscure Jedi named Kelleran Beq, who is played by former Jar Jar Binks actor Ahmed Best. As a fan, it’s genuinely nice to see Best, who suffered well over a decade of targeted abuse for his role in The Phantom Menace, get to play an action hero who rescues a new fan favorite character, but it’s a storytelling move though that only makes sense if you understand the real life drama outside of it. In terms of actual narrative, it’s a flat decision that doesn’t add much in the way of drama or emotional depth to Grogu’s escape. This is not to say it would’ve been better if some recognizable Jedi smuggled our little green hero to safety, but Beq being such an enigma to us as viewers makes the entire sequence feel even more lifeless. This could have easily been solved if we had gotten to know Beq and Grogu’s dynamic even a little bit before the lightsaber tricks and speederchases, but that’s not the case here.

“The Foundling” does manage to mine some intrigue out of Bo-Katan’s inclusion in The Children of the Watch. Unlike Din, it’s unclear where exactly she stands in her relationship to this cultish enclave of Mandalorians. Part of this comes from the still overly murky history surrounding the Purge and the groups founding, but Filoni, Favreau, and Katee Sackhoff paint Bo-Katan as a conflicted woman who is unsure about her loyalties as we are. Even as she holds the Children of the Watch in contempt, she has the chance to interact with other Mandalorians in a way she hasn’t been for quite some time. But, in the episode’s best moment, The Armorer remains dismissive of Bo-Katan’s revelation that she personally witnessed a living mythosaur dwelling beneath the Mandalorian surface. Even as she begins to trust the Watch, its leader may not be willing to do the same to her. It sets up a complicated dynamic going forward and the meatiest interpersonal drama that the series currently has on the table.

“The Foundling” is not without its merits, but it’s just as often confused and lifeless. It represents a continuous backslide for The Mandalorian’s third season after its lively, if silly, premiere. Let’s hope the second half of this season starts to find itself.

Score: C+

[psalmsofpsychosis]

okay so i have read a lot of stories during my life, but there have been few stories whose protagonist i wanted to save from the story the way i want to save Anakin from star wars and star wars fans alike. like, the way star wars and its fans are hellbent on misunderstanding Anakin is kind of exceptional in very fucked up ways. Greg Lickass sat to write a story about a boy who points out that the emperor, in fact, is not wearing clothes, but he was so afraid of the story himself that he ended pointing a finger and saying "yeah, the boy is the villain here". And then you get Filoni doing a whole 7 seasons of targeted character assassination by painting Anakin as this irrational, HeebyJeeby-driven nonsensical person who's Born Evil And Will Become It Anyway, It's Just A Matter Of Time. Everything happening in legends more or less builds up on that foundation, and the fans often add the "he's simply evil there's nothing to it" explanation as the cherry on top.

And i mean, one day i'll finish my anakin essay and post it, but until then, i'll just sit in this corner and think about how differently Anakin would've been treated by fans if he was a woman. Because a lot of you seem to be blind to how feminine his traits of "divine madness" are, just the way Luke is such a feminine-coded character. Like, y'all wouldn't stand for the way the majority of fandom writes him if he was a woman, but he's not, so you dont see the fucked up way that his character is stripped of all nuance and depth and complexity and simply portrayed as "an irrational, borderline-comical presence that Just Feels Things And Acts Stupid About It".

[miss-spixx]

disrespectfully demanding that the mouse gives boba fett his show back