#this is an a+ post that explores how nuanced and beautifully written the holts are as a toxic ass family that loves & hates each other

[andonutty]

#ngl i'll make fancier tags eventually because i do not wanna clog the adf tag but this'll do#this was not supposed to be my first post yet i feel very strongly about this topic and the holts so um#here we go i guess!#cannot stress enough the literal dev of interior night has said the holts do want what's best for each other#they just have different ideas of what that best is! so it comes out wrong and warped and sometimes mean spirited#but they aren't just 2-bit abusers with signs on their heads saying : i hate jay and abuse him on the regular im a monster kill me#like do you know how much it wrecked me going through variations of the jay in prison scenes and seeing him say like#that tyler might even be happy out there as a fugitive. and that jay wants that for him? for tyler to be happy?#even jay himself comes into his wisdom which has always been there and acknowledges his love for his family#and the fact tyler and dale were miserable going on the way they were. just like he was!#the game centers around the holts and the walkers because they are two families that love each other and fumble the landing of it#jim lies to vince over something unforgivable. yet lying is all he knows. yet he did it out of a selfish love for his son#michelle cheats on vince which is awful and tries to paint it as something not important but she loves vince#is even willing to let him indulge in petty revenge ( which is missing the point ) so that they can stay together!#terrible things they're doing but it never takes away from the fact they love vince and zoe#a sentiment echoed by the holts!#idk like i know this take might get me killed but seeing morally gray games get the black and white treatment kills me#you are missing the true brilliance of adf's writing! you are missing some amazing characters!#also jay is not some unflawed creature. he literally can get so jealous over some girl that he isn't dating to the point of MAIMING a guy#he could've killed todd. he probably almost did! vanessa even says he might be more like his family than he thinks#and even if you don't choose this option it is still inside him. this paranoid jealousy and brutal violence#he can shoot vince or watch him die. he can let his dad die. he can bury someone alive. he can kill a cop and some poor ranger#dale and tyler and jay might be different characters and were shaped differently but they're still the same at their core

while only a minority share this view, i do find it somewhat tone deaf when people claim jay's ending is the best outcome for an abuse survivor -- either directly or indirectly implying everyone in the holt house was an abuser that jay, their sole little victim, had to get away from. for starters, none of his endings are happy ones. not even the fugitive path where he's holed up amongst nature, has a dog, and is bathed in solitude. maybe if you close your ears to what jay's saying during that scene you could see this as good for him, but his dialogue is stifled with an achingly loneliness, a sadness. this idea that he craved being alone in the wilderness is not one jay paints himself, it's only something that's said by tyler ; someone who clearly doesn't understand the younger on any level, much less grasps his desires. yes, jay wanted out, he likes nature, though no human can stew in their own space for years without this affecting them mentally. and that's not even taking into account that his entire life is over! he can't travel, he can't visit other countries or get lost in other areas of wood lands or plains, jay is infinitely stuck where he is. it's not a prison cell but it's a cage nonetheless, as the old saying goes : a golden cage is still a cage, after all. he tells zoe these beautiful sights have grown dull on him, laments about missing his family, vanessa, and is so chained by his want for connection he reaches out to a desert dream victim of all people. like, what about this muted cynicism, this barren home, seems happy? maybe he wanted this, some whimsical dream of this, before. now though? it's not what jay thought it'd be, and he lacks any power to change it. this is not some amazing ending for abuse survivors, it's still sad in a melancholy way, simply because jay is visibly unhappy with said circumstances.

but moving on to this, ah, ‘poor little victim in a lion's den’ narrative ... what? i think a lot of people fail to grasp how complex the holt household is in terms of toxicity and abuse. something that's very common nowadays due to how much people project rather than see what's in front of them. and don't get me wrong! projection is fine, you do you, we all consume and parse through media differently -- but this narrative is, by canon evidence, rather fictional. to be completely blunt, jay is not the only victim stuck in the holt house ?? the abusers have always been bear ( physical abuse, verbal degradation ) and sharon ( passive in the face of her kids' abuse, emotional manipulation ) ... and we are literally told point blank by the story itself and another character that these two favored jay immensely compared to their other children. now i'm obviously not saying that he has not faced trauma, he has! favoritism in a house like this does not shield you from the toxicity, sometimes that favor makes things worse, but he was protected to an extent, in ways tyler and dale were not. those two very clearly faced the brunt of bear's physical abuse ; for each other, for jay, and just overall caught their dad's ire more because they stood up to him. tyler takes a beating, a sight that's not at all new by his grim acceptance of this and the fact he states he's been doing this since young :

so, this is normal for tyler. getting beaten by his dad ( which isn't even mentioning the horror story bear can tell to ash, about how he literally threatened to cut tyler's ear or finger off ) and having his mom overall turn a blind eye to it, even going as far as to dismiss this fighting as childish behavior rather than what it is. and dale? we don't see much of him and bear in general, yet the second he steps up to defend tyler, with something as measly as a shove back, bear wastes zero time in hitting him so hard he's practically out of commission for the rest of the fight. he didn't even think about it, merely swung at dale as hard as possible on instinct alone before tyler hastily stepped up to defend him. what happens when jay tries stopping the fight, though?

both parties grab for him so they can toss him out of the way so he doesn't possibly get hurt. you can speculate bear was only doing this in order to finish his punishment on tyler, he'd deal with jay later whatever, although why not punch him like dale? why, out of all the moves on his belt, does he do the more merciful option? bear, who is nothing if not made of violence and has been molded to respect it? his fist that's raised in the air isn't for jay, since the next frame is jay shoved out of the way and him hitting tyler again ... hell, in dialogue where bear and jay are sitting on their porch, the youngest can even say bear beats on tyler and dale specifically. why not say “you beat on us”? like, the game is heavily implying that while jay is traumatized, there are some methods of abuse he simply did not face. one of them being the physical abuse prominent at home. and no, i'm not counting whatever pranks dale's pulled on jay ( like shooting him six times with a bb gun lmao ) because honestly? that's just older brother behavior, and we know that despite the morbid pranks, he still looked out for jay in the ways that counted. like protecting him from pa and to an extent tyler, something which, again, jay says himself!

back on topic a bit, the notion people seem to have of jay and his family seems overly simplified to me. people just looked at dale being his usual asshole self and went ‘abuser’, people looked at tyler's rather drastic and not usually like himself reactions to a high stress situation and went ‘abuser’, and that's a bit ridiculous to me. can't say i'm shocked! since so many people nowadays just see someone mean to their favorite character and decide woobifying said fave while demonizing their opposing force is exactly what canon intended. as dusk falls couldn't be a game more clear about it's main theme of family and the fact there's no purely good or bad people in this world, two statements that correspond directly to the holt family. are they bad for each other? probably! but that's a different discussion compared to, say, every single soul in that house violently abused poor jay and they should reap the consequences of that. dale and tyler, like their beloved younger brother, are also victims of abusive parents and a toxic home life. in turn, they both show signs of this abuse in ways that aren't entirely sympathetic or easy to swallow, especially when they've been dealing with it longer than jay and have never had their parents' favor the way he did. i see people get angry at tyler for the famous cabin scene, but nobody turns a critical eye to sharon ; who for all intents and purposes is watching this unfold without a care. she never physically stops tyler and her attempts to kill the fight are weak compared to her previously steely commands. and, honestly, the fact that tyler was that stressed about sharon getting on that bike so she can be protected, when she's the most capable out of the three of them, is way more strange than tyler's outburst -- when he's in a high stress situation, his baby brother's dead, and his life as he knows it is over. a life he didn't even have to begin with, since it was stolen due to his abusive upbringing.

whether this excuses what he did or not is entirely up to the player! i personally don't think it does, though i also understand where this is coming from and the game makes it clear this is not usual tyler behavior. throughout other people's views it's hammered into us that tyler has a cool head relatively, is the most sensible and smart out of his brothers. so, no, i do not think he was choking jay out all the time for his misplaced resentment -- i think his obvious disliking came from his stilted interactions with jay, and his lack of bond with him at all. we see in book one two times he reaches out to jay, demanding that he eats ( a minor, small thing to fret and worry about ) as well as panicking when he sees jay away from the rest of them during a shoot out. dale constantly looks out for jay as well, going as far as to take the heat from romero if they get caught and something as small as taking blame for jay's mistake in the barn scene. are his brothers more prone to violence and apathy? sure! yet they clearly love jay regardless. abusive households are not easy and see through. in fact in many cases the different levels of abuse the kids suffer does breed life altering resentment later on, envy that can damage these bonds permanently. honestly the holt family intrigues me deeply because of how well written they were as a unit, the effects of abuse and toxicity subtle and not overt in a ‘psa message’ kinda way. and these horrible relationships and ideals shared do not negate from the even more horrible fact that there is love in this messed up family, even bear clearly loves his sons, but that doesn't make it better. it almost makes it worse, seeing all the good intentions and care. knowing it doesn't excuse what they've done to each other nor does it make them better. they're a picture perfect family of an ugly wound! which is fascinating! i only wish more people saw that wonderfully shown depth rather than this bland and lukewarm take on the holts overall.

jay is a victim, he is traumatized, he deserved to one day spread his wings and put some distance between himself and his family ... but he was not the only one who deserved that ending, and he was not the only victim there. he was merely the only one with easy to parse trauma responses.