#this is also the hannigram relationship progression and YES I SEE IT. I KNOW. i know what i like.

[cringefailvox]

ideal radiostatic relationship progression for me personally is friends to enemies to codependency

[tirsynni]

I know you talked about it like ages ago but I just came across your opinion on Hannigram and Aeon relationships and I must say that what sticks out to me is the balance and imbalance of power and an impact, or lack thereof, they're leaving on each other. The entire Hannibal series is about two equals. Will is trying to suppress his dark side but eventually embraces it and so it begins a really messed up but really fun to watch game between him and Hannibal where they take turns to fuck each other up. With Aeon however... Ada always gets the upper hand and always gets what she wants at the end. Her and Leon's encounters look the same. It's not a bad thing, I'm not being mean here. But you can't really see any noticeable changes in them AFTER their meetings. Their behaviour, way of thinking never changes under each other's influence. They seem affected by each other only during the missions, for a moment. After that everything goes back to what it was, Ada is still morally grey and Leon is still a noble man.

Unfortunately, I couldn't say for sure because Will and Hannibal have several seasons to develop while we only get flashes of Leon and Ada. It doesn't help that I'm still not sure that Capcom actually has a plan for Ada.

Because of the irregular interactions, it's difficult to talk about growth. Capcom failing to recognize that the characters should actually be doing things in between games and interacting doesn't help. I wouldn't say, though, that they and us as the players/watchers don't get anything out of their interactions. Even regarding the power imbalance portion, while Ada usually gets the upper hand, there is no denying that Leon definitely messes with her, even if it is on a more emotional level than a power level. There is an impact and the pair together provides more information on the individuals.

Leon is noble, yes, but he's far more morally flexible than many other heroes in the series. Can you imagine Chris being sorta friends/allies/whatever they are with Ada? Chris is very much right/wrong, black/white, while Ada repeatedly shows us that Leon isn't. Leon tends to be people-focused. He has a strong sense of justice, but his definition is very different from Chris's. I'm not sure if any of the heroes could bend enough to have the tentative relationship that Leon has with Ada.

His relationship with Ada also shows other parts of his character: as much as he likes to give other people the benefit of the doubt, he remains a very clever man. Even in RE2, when he went along with her story of being a FBI agent (I'm not that familiar with the original), he was able to quickly adapt to new information and act on it. Later, when they meet again, Leon is able to talk with her, but he knows to be wary. Multiple conversations occur with the pair pointing weapons at each other.

Also, while Capcom loves painting Ada as the woman of mystery and all that bullshit, we are repeatedly shown Leon's effect on her. At the end of the RE2 remake where you play as Ada, Wesker is annoyed with her because he thought she was focused more on Leon than her job. Only her showing that she had a sample got him to back off. Hell, in RE2, her life would have been simpler if she just shot Leon at the end, but she couldn't do it. In RE4, Wesker orders her to kill Leon before later ordering Krauser to do it after Ada makes absolutely no progress. Wesker probably knew that Ada wasn't going to do it and Krauser was a backup, if not more. There are repeated instances of Ada taking the time to help out Leon even when she has other things going on, stalling off her own plans and delaying her escape/next steps to assist him. Her relationship with Leon is the clearest indication in the series that while she can be a ruthless mercenary, she has some soft spots, too.

But yeah: because of the completely different formats, it's difficult to compare a three-season show like Hannibal to a game series extending over two decades with multiple years occurring between the games and movies. Hell, it's challenging to even comment specifically on Leon's growth when the setup for the games are so radically different: RE2 = rookie, RE4 = government agent, RE6 = government agent who literally starts the game by shooting a friend in the head and then going through a situation straight out of his nightmares. Also the fact that there's six years between 2 and 4 and fifteen years between 2 and 6.

I really, really wish Capcom would give us more, but really... at this point I would just be happy if they brought some of the old characters back in RE9.

[existingcharactersdiehorribly]

Hannibal S4 Dreams, VIII

And more of our Hannibal S4 dreams!

happy hannigram :)))

Gay

Murderhusbands killing every rude person very aesthetically on a beautiful tropical island

Hannibal and Will on a murder spree together

More screen time for the wonderful dynamic of Hannibal and Will.

That it will be even more aesthetically beautiful than the last three.

Will and Hannibal riding into the sunset together

Hannigram kissing. I'm trash. I don't care. I need murder husband making out and plenty of it.

The short of it, Murder Husbands... I want it to involve Will accepting Hannibal, and all that entails. It doesn't have to happen all at once, they can continue with the slow progression, even after he's made the decision to go with Hannibal.

Some domestic Murder Husband scenes

Consummation.

To FINALLY learn the exact results of the Fall ( maybe some

Will Graham pink shorts. No, but really, I want to see Hannibal let himself be vulnerable, at least to a degree. I want to see just how much Will has changed him, and I want to see how Hannibal has changed Will. Meaning, murder husbands murdering together. Please!

Openly queer and happy Murder Husbands. :) <3

Omg, I have so many! But the one hope I have is just seeing the process of recover for both Will and Hannibal. And I'm not only talking physically, I'm talking mentally and emotionally. Because I know when they jumped off that cliff, Will meant for the both of them to die. And yeah, maybe they'd just go straight to being murder husbands but I kinda really want to see that period in their lives when Will really says yes. And maybe he already did, maybe there is no hesitancy for Will cuz he's already decided. But if it ever comes to it, sorta want to see that kinda slow burn even though the entire show was already a slow burn haha. I guess I just love to suffer.

I'm really excited for Bryan to tell this strange, new chapter of Will's life, including his relationship w/ Hannibal. I want to see blood, and breath, and radiance!

Murder Husbands becomes canon.

Hannigram love and to see how the ladies of Hannibal are doing <3

Will Graham accepting his becoming, finding security with Hannibal in their apparent disappearance.

Please come back and let the 2 be at a small cottage up in thr woods. Hidden away. And Lecter guiding Will on how to kill. How to make sure he is safe and secure. They can have a real romance, with thrm naked in bed. Holding eachother while sitting back to chest, under some heavy warm blankets. I want to see that. I need the romance to materialize. Other charactersssss, they can all turn better to the light. But if they turn towards the dark and never come back. Thats okay too. A few funerals wont hurt the plot too much.

A hannigram kiss!  Or even better, full sex scene ;)

That it will exist

Hannigram Canon

Haaaaaaaaaaaaannigram!!

bearded Hannibal because why not.

im not really sure! more murder husbands content + also i'm hopeful for the scenery because the atmosphere is always really nice

Our boys together, murder, at least a kiss god damn. Alana and Margo being a kickass power couple. DOGS. Where is Winston? More Jack, probably done with this shit tbh. Honestly I just want season 4, that would be a blessing.

Hannigram Sex Scene

Murder husbands

Murder husbands

A Hannibal/Will canon sex scene :)

Marlana survive

[dragonlands]

hannigram - an abusive relationship?

Spoiler alert: it’s not. (But it kind of is. I’ll go in depth about that in a moment.)

I wrote this for a conversation I had in twitter, and thought I wouldn’t need to post it here, but since I saw yet another person claiming that hannigram is abusive I thought I’d post this.

People use the term abusive about relationships that are unhealthy (in their opinion), as evindence for why it should not be shipped/supported. The correct definition of abuse is:

“Treating badly or injurously, mistreating, especially psysically.”

And of relationship abuse it is:

“A pattern of abusive and coercive behaviors used to maintain power and control over a former or current intimate partner. Abuse can be emotional, financial, sexual or physical and can include threats, isolation, and intimidation. Abuse tends to escalate over time. When someone uses abuse and violence against a partner, it is always part of a larger pattern of control.”

So according to this it is abusive, I get it. They both try to kill each other multiple times, they manipulate and lead each other on. They don’t sexually abuse each other though, which at least in my opinion is the worst sort of abuse and I couldn’t ship a couple who did that to one another.

The other thing in this description that doesn’t quite match Hannigram is “abuse tends to escalate over time – it is always a part of larger pattern of control”. The mental abuse between them is at it’s worst in S1 where Hannibal manipulates Will into believing he’s a killer - but this is not to show his power over him, it is simply the only way Hannibal can bring Will into his life. Hannibal has after the first half of S2 been ready to drop the manipulation and violence between them as soon as Will does. And I haven’t seen anyone blame Will of being the main abuser, even though it could be argued that it’s solely his fault that the abuse continues.

The reason why Hannigram doesn’t fit the normal description of abuse is because their relationship is meant to be read as symbolic, not as a literal ideal of love. It’s fiction, and it should be treated as such. Fiction is great, because we can explore possibilities and relationships etc. that aren’t possible in real life. Thankfully the majority in this fandom are really intelligent and understand this, and only few people have failed at understanding what the shoe is about. That group still exists, and that’s why I felt the need to post this

What I believe the antis actually mean when they say it’s abusive is not just that it is violent and manipulative, but that “It’s an abuser/abused relationship, Hannibal is evil and Will is innocent, their relationship won’t work and does more bad than good for both of them, or at least for Will”.

Like I said earlier, it’s not a healthy relationship and it’s not one that I literally want for myself or for anyone I care about - but it’s not unbalanced. At least when we reach the end of third season they are certainly equals, there’s no denying it. I understand that some people don’t ship it because it’s too far from an ideal realtionship, and that’s okay, but hating on it and denying the fact that they’re equals who both choose each other in the end is just plain ignorant.

Will has always been alone, always been different. His relationship with Hannibal gets so close so fast because Hannibal is the first person who actually sees him. I’m gonna quote a Hannigram fic here because I think it described their relationship so well. (Will to Hannibal:) “You always wanted me to be the best version of myself when no one else accepted me for what I already was.” Just like Hannibal let Will see him, Will also let Hannibal see him. Hannibal didn’t “make an innocent puppy become a murderer”, he helped him to become what he already had the potential for.

If the antis and/or deniers have only seen season one, I need to admit that I understand them. Will did kind of seem like an innocent dog loving introvert back then if you didn’t pay much attention to details (like how coldly he treats the parents of the missing girl, how he isn’t afraid of human contact but despises it, how his humor is so dark that it often shocks his colleagues and friends and so on. I could make a post about this, if anyone is interested about that let me know). The first season is about Hannibal manipulating everyone into thinking Will is a killer, experimenting on Will and he does seem like a coldhearted psychopath there.

In season two we see Will gaining more power back, him manipulating and even seducing Hannibal. He isn’t afraid to kill a man in the progress, he eats people with Hannibal almost flirtatiously. This is not what an “innocent” man would do, or even what innocent man physically could do. The darkness inside him is becoming more clear, and even he himself admits that even though he wants to, he can’t hate Hannibal.

Will (to Peter): “I envy your hate. Makes it much easier when you know how to feel.”

He still betrays Hannibal in mizumono (even though he does call him at the last minute to warn him). Before I always though it was just because Will was still trying to cling to some sort of morality, but after Hugh’s comments it is obvious that Will was also afraid Hannibal didn’t and/or couldn’t love him the way he loved him, and so he thought it would be dangerous for him to run away with him and trust Hannibal with his life and wellbeing. Here is what Hugh said:

“I think Will has probably in some way never conceived the possibility that Hannibal could be in love. I mean, he’s got such a black heart. The awareness that they have this connection is something Will knows and is probably in some way profoundly ashamed of, and is also, you know, he keeps coming back to and actually kinda fills him with joy as well. But I don’t think he’d ever give it the name love, because I don’t think he’d ever associate love with Hannibal. – He’s never thought of Hannibal as being capable of love. Because like most of us, he probably had love put off on a kind of pedestal, as an idea, a more perfect thing, as he made the awful realisation: ‘Oh crap, maybe this thing I’m feeling is like love.‘”

I think it is clear to everybody at this point that Hannibal loves Will. His love, though, isn’t your typical “murderer obsessed with a beautiful and innocent woman (obviously man in this case)”. Hannibal loves Will because they understand each other, because they share a way of seeing the world, but also because they have interesting conversations and because they share the same sense of himor and have fun together. In a way, it’s just normal love, just deeper and richer since neither of them has ever had a change to explore that kind of love with anyone else before.

So to conclude: if you take it literally, yes, it is abusive, but that doesn’t make it wrong to ship it, by Hannibal standards at least. (The whole show is a little fucked up so if you can’t live with that why are you here?) Also, it has been abusive until this point only because they (well, mostly Will) have still struggled to accept their feelings for each other. Hannibal has only physically hurt Will if he has betrayed his trust or tried to hurt him first. Personally I don’t believe Hannibal would ever hurt Will again if they were to be a real couple. He also stopped the mindgames and manipulation as early as when Will got out of prison, knowing what he was. And Will has hurt and betrayed Hannibal mostly because of the reasons I stated earlier, because he thought it was the only way to save himself. If they stopped their game of cat and mouse (a game of cat and mouse where the roles change from time to time, or maybe even better description would be a game of cat and cat like Bryan called it) I wholeheartedly believe that they could live in a relationship where neither of them abuses the other.

Like Bryan once said, the core of their relationship is that:

“They had imagined they were unique before they saw each other. Obviously it took Will longer to appreciate that because he didn’t quite realize what he was dealing with in Hannibal, but Hannibal sees it instantly. It’s two people who have never been - I mean Will probably wears it heavier - but still, essentially alone in the world and then see some kind of, maybe not mirror image but the other side of their coin.”

And like Hugh said:

“In a sense the two of them have been wandering the Earth, totally isolated, because they have such a specific and elevated mentality. Not identical, but it is as if not only are you the greatest chess player on the planet, you’re actually the only person on the planet that can play chess. And then suddenly you walk into a roon one day and there’s a guy playing chess. I think that’s how they feel about each other.”

If you leave out the murder and cannibalism and manipulation, Hannigram is about two people who are different than anyone else finding love in each other. Their relationship evolves slowly from friends to lovers, and even though they try to move on neither of them can because they share something so intimate. So in its own, weird and symbolic way, i think Hannibal and Will’s relationship is build on a much better base and is possibly even healthier than many other ships and canon couples out there.