#this is about the imperial system of measurements

[juney-blues]

is it really "more intuitive" or are you just used to it

[cometchasr]

actually reading that one scene in the son of neptune(?) where percy calls using rugby fields "normal" enrages me

[bepisconsumer]

With every passing day I become more and more convinced that by far the most controversial opinion I hold is that Fahrenheit is a perfectly fine measurement system for temperature actually

[https-chaos]

Is anyone else totally jarred when a BBC show uses feet and inches as a unit? Maybe I’m just American™️ but I could have sworn the UK used the metric system? It’s almost always feet though. “Oh that thing is 30feet in diameter.” Its jarring!! ESPECIALLY when it’s scientists saying it, or people in sci fi. Why are they using imperial units? If someone knows please tell me because it’s killing me.

[pisscord]

i would like to propose that the republic and mandalore use different measuring systems, like metric vs imperial. bonus points if the clones prefer metric (trained by mandalorians) and then have to suffer through republic imperial in the GAR

[camelpimp]

absolutely loving the math poll stuff. not too keen on the metric users having A Normal One™ in the tags but what you gonna do i guess. ┐⁠(u⁠ーu⁠)⁠┌

I personally love the people going all like "well actually you don't give the height so I can't find area." That's volume, jackass

[tejonterrible]

I know I'm not usamerican when I want to kms and not mph

[oliviawebsite]

as a communist who actually does work in my community i'm interested to hear why you think not voting in an effective manner against project 2025 is a logical and helpful course of action.

i doubt you asked this in good faith but ill entertain you just this once

1) i live in california. biden will win this state easily. my vote LITERALLY does not matter.

2) to say im "not voting against project 2025" is disingenuous as all hell. im obviously opposed to that platform and i intend to vote down-ballot for candidates who would oppose its measures in congress. also joe biden has done NOTHING to protect trans people. look at how his admin has recently dropped all support for youth trans healthcare. he is not fucking helping us. honestly not a fan of the way you worded this its deeply condescending.

3) i intend to cast a vote for a candidate who will not use our military force and imperalist wealth to exploit and murder people all over the world. i am opposed to united states imperialism before anything else and believe this country needs to stay out of everyones business. im sick of seeing our "leaders" excuse the ceaseless murder of palestinians with a smile on their face. as a "communist" this should be your main driving force as well anon, tbh. as long as democrats run imperalist candidates i will not vote for them

4) if biden somehow manages to win this year, the dems are still famous for their concessions to the right. what makes you think he wouldnt sign half of proect 2025's policies into law for the sake of "reaching across the aisle" or some bullshit. plenty of dems have given up on protecting trans right because its a "bad look" and they are the party of spineless cowards setting that aside the right just regroups and makes project 2029, 2033 and so on. to blame individuals for "not voting effectively" (are you sure youre actually a commie anon lmao) is missing the forest for the trees. fascism is already entrenched in every aspect of american politics. this is a cultural sickness enabled by a system that allows hatred-as-politics to thrive. its the fault of the monsters who want to do this in the first place not some internet tranny in a blue state who wants to at least try and vote my true conscious.

there is no moral justification to vote for biden. to blame me and people like me for project 2025 is honestly disgusting. you should be ashamed of yourself and never send me or anyone else an ask like this again. if you are really a "communist" sit down and think about what you are REALLY supporting when you chastise people for not wanting to vote for EITHER of the Senile Genociders being presented by the 2 party partnership. see ya

[phoenixyfriend]

The next time someone outside the US tries to Give Shit about not using metric, I'll just ask when they're transitioning out of a base 24/60 time measurement.

Get back to me when you have a ten-hour day and 100min hour.

Until then "but we've always used this, it would be so annoying to change over when we're all used to these seemingly unreasonable ratios, it feels natural to us," is a justifiable answer for continuing to use the Imperial system.

No you would not get to retroactively grow up with the time. Your people and government would have to manually adjust as fast as possible because... IDK aliens showed up and the rest of the galaxy thinks we're weird for not using base 10. The boomers will complain, the teachers will panic, and you will have to sink so much money into changeover for signage and computers across the world.

EDIT: I am FULLY AWARE of the transition from imperial to metric in places like England (incomplete though it may be).

This is not about people who lived through that transition, because those are not generally the people who are snobbish about it. The worst attitudes, in my experience, come from people who grew up on metric and view others as idiots for preferring something else.

The post is about how the argument that metric is Objectively Better is hypocritical if you aren't also willing to change the time system.

The argument is Stop Being Dicks.

[legobiwan]

For the drabble prompt list

"none of this is your fault" mario and luigi

Drabbles, they said, Ha! I answered. Anyway, I have no idea where this came from, but enjoy this barely-edited not-drabble. I am apparently incapable of concise writing right now :D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“None of this is your fault, Lou.”

Luigi scoffed, pushing dampened sleeves up both arms, smearing dark, sweaty grease across his skin in wide, impressionistic lines.

“You tell that to Toadsworth in three days. I’m sure he’ll be happy to believe you,” Luigi groused, tightening a stubborn, thick bolt with a violent twist. That should keep the engine boosters from flying off at speeds exceeding thirty miles an hour. (Or as they were counted in the Mushroom Kingdom, five hundred and two mycelia per second, a measuring system so opaque - and infuriating - that Luigi had sat through an entire five-hour Toad Council meeting just so he could petition the government to introduce a bill to launch a public vote on switching to any other quantifier that made a modicum of sense. The notion, of course, was voted down in a manner of seconds. Tradition, Mister Luigi, Toadsworth had sniffed, rapping his long-handled gavel with an imperious gesture, closing off all debate on the matter).

Snobby old toad could stuff it up his spore holes.

“He’ll get over it,” Mario said. “What’s he going to do, anyway? Make us sit through another boring state dinner?”

Luigi poked at a serpentine belt that resembled some slices of old cheese he once found in the back of their fridge in Brooklyn. How these guys managed to stay competitive with equipment in this condition was a complete slap in the face to basic physics.

“You like those dinners.” Luigi crawled out from under the dented chassis, sitting back on his haunches as he gestured at his brother with a ratchet-wrench, making curly patterns in the air as if he were a Magikoopa casting a spell.

“I hate those dinners as much as you. They’re hot, stuffy, and the food is an insult to the entirety of Brooklyn. It’s not my fault I get to sit next to Peach and you’re always stuck with Lady Maitake and her hundreds of onion bulb-pup photos for two hours.”

“Don’t remind me. Did you know she’s trying to train them to do circus acts and take them on the road?” Luigi ran a finger down one of the dusty schematics strewn about the stone floor. “Hand me that spanner, will you?”

Mario shook his head, chuckling, handing off the hooked tool to Luigi, who shimmied once more underneath the maroon-and-black kart. “Look, you got hoodwinked into a bad contract. I should have looked over the fine print before you signed.”

“You’re not my keeper, Mario,” Luigi grumbled, trying to keep the irritation out of his voice. “And it’s not even the contract that I care about. Frankly, I’m impressed Bowser’s been able to get these things to do anything beyond cough up smoke and crash into the nearest palm tree. It’s a good challenge to get them running again.”

“So what’s the issue, then?”

Luigi stilled, his hands guts-deep in a mess of wiring and cables that looked like an earthworm graveyard. After a moment, he sighed, letting the spanner tool clatter to the floor with a bright, metallic jangle. 

“The issue,” he began, staring up at the internal electronic system of one of Bowser’s so-called best racing karts. “Is that he’s probably going to win. Bowser, that is. And everyone will make nice about it at the awards ceremony and Bowser will get too drunk on elderflower wine and get kicked out of the post-race party.”

“That happens every race, Lou.”

“Yeah, but you know Bowser. He’ll let it slip that I was the one doing repairs on his karts. And then in the morning, there will be a meeting. And Toadsworth will go on about the standing of the Kingdom being compromised and it being a diplomatic catastrophe that we allowed Bowser to win and that,” Luigi adopted a whiny, pompous voice. “Mr. Luigi has once again strained his credibility within the Mushroom Kingdom.” 

“Look, that stodgy old Toad has no chance of making those charges stick. You were exonerated, Weeg. Nothing that happened with Bleck - “ Mario clenched his fists, hissing through his teeth. “Nothing that happened in that place was you. That wasn’t your fault, and neither is this.”

Luigi reached towards one of the dangling battery coils, playing with the violet and yellow wires between his fingers. “Sure,” he breathed. “Not me.”

“Not you,” Mario insisted, his voice steely. “And besides,” he continued, a hint of humor creeping into his words. If you’re so concerned about Toadsworth, why don’t you sabotage Bowser’s fleet?”

Luigi pushed himself out from under the kart, snapping up to a seat in wide-eyed horror.

“And ruin my reputation as an engineer? No way, bro. I’ll risk the treason charges, thank you very much.”

Mario guffawed, ambling over to take a seat next to his brother, the two coming shoulder-to-shoulder, backs set against the passenger door of the Koopa Coupe. “I think your reputation is beyond reproach, Lou.” Mario gave a small, uncertain smile. “After all, you did build two killer robots in the span of two weeks.”

It was a huge step forward, just being able to talk about the whole incident in Flipside, no less joke about it - the ordeal with Bleck and the jester and Luigi’s brainwashing. Mario had stayed tight-lipped about the entire debacle for weeks after they had gotten back, much to Luigi’s aggravation, until things came to a head one night due to a series of ill-conceived plans on the part of the Toad Council, the most brazen of which featured a misserved cup of tea laced with a dubiously legal truth potion.

Luigi sniffed out half a chuckle, nudging his brother in the shoulder. “Well, I can’t let Bowser think I’m slipping, right?”

Mario eyed his brother carefully, his features brightening as he caught the note of mischief in Luigi’s voice. Grinning, he clapped his brother on the knee. “You’ve got an idea, don’t you? The Old Koopa King doesn’t know what he’s got coming.”

Luigi straightened, composing himself into the picture of innocence. “Dear brother, I am a man of my word. Bowser will win the race, just like the contract stipulates.”

“And?”

“Aaand,” Luigi drew out the word, schematics and thermodynamic equations taking shape in his mind. “Let’s say the engine modifications I’m making happen to engage a set of rocket boosters at a certain speed threshold. Bowser’ll like that. But then maybe the activation of those boosters, given a certain location and time input, temporarily cede control of the brakes and steering to a pre-programmed route of the engineer’s choosing.” Luigi paused for dramatic effect. “All after the race is finished, of course. No injuries. No harm. Just a little post-race joyride through the forest.”

Mario gave a joyous whoop, bringing his brother into a tight, side-hug. “They’ll hear him screaming all the way in Rogueport! Ha! You know he’ll threaten to invade during the after-party! No one will care if you worked on his kart once he shows back up breathing smoke!”

“He’ll do that regardless,” Luigi laughed, feeling lighter than he had in weeks. “But you know how these modifications are. Always a chance of overburdening your circuits.”

“And at least it’ll be a while before he tries to trick you into doing his dirty work again,” Mario added.

“I hope so.” Luigi placed a warm hand on his brother’s shoulder, smiling. “Thanks, Mario.”

Mario beamed back at his brother, playfully flicking the brim of Luigi’s hat. “Come on, Lou. Show me how to build a sentient robot race kart.”

~~~~~

Drabble writing challenge: Make me sweat!

[niteshade925]

April 13, Xi'an, China, Shaanxi Archaeology Museum/陕西考古博物馆 (Part 3 - Qin dynasty to Sui dynasty):

First up is one of many bronze edict tablets of the 2nd emperor of Qin dynasty, made in 209 BC. Inscribed upon it in Seal script is one of two edicts, specifically the one from the 2nd emperor of Qin dynasty (秦二世), which basically is a continuation of Qin Shi Huang's edict on standardizing all weights and measurements. Here Qin Shi Huang/秦始皇 is referred to as Shi Huangdi/始皇帝, where shi/始 means "origin", and huangdi/皇帝 means "emperor".

^The edict inscribed is as follows (this is my VERY rough translation, please take this with a grain of salt, I'm not great at reading Old Chinese; original text is on bottom right of picture):

“First year (209 BC; first year of 2nd Emperor of Qin's reign), [We] issued an edict to chancellors Li Si and Feng Quji: Shi Huangdi pioneered this effort to standardize all weights and measurements, since then all such edicts have been inscribed on bronze. Now that [We have] inherited this Huangdi title, [We] shall not refer to Ourselves as Shi Huangdi here. Likewise, should Our descendants continue to produce tablets of Shi Huangdi's edict, they shall not take credit for Shi Huangdi's achievements. [We] hereby inscribe this edict on the left, so that all may be clear."

Ever since Qin Shi Huang tried to standardize systems of measurements for the entire country, every dynasty since Qin dynasty has also done the same. These are the standardized weights and volume measurements (all made with bronze) from Western Han dynasty (202 - 8 BC). Those volume measurement tools are very much like oversized measurement spoons, since they are mostly used to measure liquids and grains (in ancient China grains can be measured by volume).

Looks like I forgot about this one in part 2, this is a bronze sword from Warring States period (475 - 221 BC), I believe. It's decorated with carved pieces of jade (some are on the scabbard, but the scabbard has presumably decomposed over time):

The painted and carved stone doorway to a Eastern Han dynasty (25 - 220 AD) tomb. The actual (double) doors are in the middle, and the pieces around them are the side jambs and the lintel. Note the animals, mythical creatures, and humans depicted. On the double doors, in order from top to bottom, there's a pair of Zhuque/朱雀/Vermilion Bird, a pair of symbolic door knockers shaped like a beast carrying a ring in its mouth, and a pair of oxen. On the top right and top left of the lintel piece, you can also clearly see the sun crow and the moon toad, respectively.

The layout of some Western Han dynasty (202 - 8 BC) mausoleums. Note that the "pyramids" on the model aren't stone pyramids like the Great Pyramid of Giza, they are actually fengtu/封土, or artificial mounds of earth on top of the actual tomb to symbolically seal the tomb (feng/封 means "seal" or "to seal"), and can serve as tomb markers. Fengtu can differ vastly in size according to the social status of the deceased, so the fengtu of imperial tombs are usually huge, some so big that they are like small hills. However, while Western Han dynasty imperial tombs have these square-ish fengtu mounds, in Eastern Han dynasty (25 - 220 AD) the fengtu mounds became circular, and imperial tomb fengtu have been circular pretty much ever since. But fengtu wasn't just reserved for the elites, common folk also built small circular fengtu mounds on top of graves (these graves are called fen/坟; graves without fengtu are called mu/墓), and this is still practiced today, albeit much more common in rural areas since there are less people and more land. When people tend to the graves of their family members and ancestors on Qingming Festival, if the grave is a fen grave, people would pile more earth on the fengtu to make it rounder as part of the upkeep process.

A set of pottery figurines of entertainers from a Western Han era tomb. I love how they set the display up here, you can practically imagine the music and the dancing

More pottery figurines from Western Han era tombs

Western Han era hollow clay bricks depicting the Four Symbols/四象 of the cardinal directions: Qinglong/青龙/Azure Dragon of the East, Zhuque/朱雀/Vermilion Bird of the South, Xuanwu/玄武/Black Tortoise of the North, and Baihu/白虎/White Tiger of the West.

Left: a piece of intricately painted lacquered wood, I forgot where it's from but it was probably a piece of decoration on a larger artifact. Right: a piece of gold decoration inlaid with turquoise from Western Han era

The biggest decorated yubi/玉璧 (jade disc with hole in the middle) found so far, from an early Western Han dynasty tomb. Its diameter is 43.2 cm (~17 inches). If you zoom in, the inner band is decorated with these almost tadpole-like little swirls, and these are called gu pattern/谷纹, since they might represent sprouting rice kernels. The outer band is decorated with 4 sets of kuilong patterns/夔龙纹 and 4 sets of dragon-phoenix patterns/龙凤纹. It's speculated that the patterns here together depict the universe, and the hole in the middle is where the spirit of the deceased will travel through. This particular yubi also has 六百六十一 ("six hundred and sixty-one") carved discreetly on the side, presumably a "serial number" left by the artisan who crafted this piece.

Decorated backs of bronze mirrors. I didn't take a picture of the plaque so I'm unclear on what time period these are from (may or may not be from the time period indicated at the beginning of the post):

Left: a hand-held incense burner. Right: a particular type of incense burner called a boshanlu/博山炉, so named because the lid was made to look like a mini mountain

Various Northern Zhou dynasty (557 - 581 AD) painted pottery figurines. Below middle arranged in a circle is the metal pieces on a belt.

Sixteen Kingoms era pottery entertainer figurines:

[thyfleshc0nsumed]

hey crazy question, since you said there is no evil what would you call hitler evil? trump? mussolini? genghis khan? jeffrey dahmer? jeffrey epstein? KKK members? IDF? and if they're evil then i guess you're telling me child rapists are the only ones that shouldn't be called evil? why is that?

I'm gonna ignore your bad faith misreading of my ideas and your attempt to insinuate I am a child abuser and answer your first question for other ppls sake, cuz I think it is a reasonable thing ppl might be grappling with.

In a word, no.

In a few more words, I think the question fails to properly interrogate what I mean when I refer to evil. 'Evil' is a component of a moral framework, and I feel that moral frameworks are by and large shallow and not very useful in furthering for understandings of the world around us, or very conducive to creating material change, from an individual scale to a societal scale.

The central idea I put forward in that post is that it is not some grand moral badness that enables violence and abuse, but rather systems of power. All of your examples speak to this. You mention the wealthy, political leaders, a state backed by a global superpower, and a group that was comprised of people with systemic power over their victims.

Viewing them merely as "evil" is frankly uncurious and in some ways, cyclical and thought terminating. It begs the question: "they're bad because they're bad because they're bad."

We have NO disagreement in the fact that what those people do or did have produced violence and harm, many on a scale which is difficult to fully comprehend the magnitude of. It is equally difficult to understand even how one could act with such cruelty towards fellow human beings. But just because it is difficult to understand does not mean it is impossible. They didn't do those things because they were born with some kind of evil gene or soul.

They, like you and I, were created by the context of the world around them. If Adolf Hitler died as a child, would Germany have been rid of its antisemitism or have lost its imperial ambitions? Would war have been averted? Certainly not. There were specific, relatively measurable conditions which allowed fascism to flower. If not him, someone else would have helmed that movement.

If Adolf Hitler were born in another place and time, he would not be Adolf Hitler in any meaningful sense. A person is more or less a sum of their environment. People cannot exist outside the context that they do in fact exist in.

And so to then declare someone as 'evil' amounts to saying just about nothing. It's zero sum. If people do harm simply because they are evil, then what can be done? Create a list of them and then systematically exterminate them?

Many people have twisted my words and claimed that what I am saying is that we should expose our bellies and allow bigots to gut us, or that I equivocate violence against oppressors and violence against the oppressed. This is categorically untrue. When violence is brought against you, violent response can be prudent.

But what happens after the relations of power have been altered? When the abuser or oppressor no longer has the power to harm you? Is there reason to harm them besides to punish or sate a desire for revenge? If they no longer have the means to do 'evil,' then what purpose does violence against them serve besides for the sake of our own bloodlust?

You will not see me shed a tear for Israeli settlers killed by opposition forces, or for abusers killed by a victim defending themself because those relations of power are still in place. Settlers can leave, soldiers can dodge the draft, and abusers can stop abusing.

But if they settle, kill, and abuse because they are 'evil,' then what choice did they have to begin with? And what can be done to stop colonialism, state violence, and abuse in the future? Are evil people just going to stop being born?

The framework of evil adds nothing, gives no solutions, and hinders progress by giving us amnesty for not looking at our own relationship to power structures. But a materialist, analytical framework provides us tools to deconstruct those structures and hopefully move beyond them.

[fatehbaz]

Endangered Indian sandalwood. British war to control the forests. Tallying every single tree in the kingdom. European companies claim the ecosystem. Spices and fragrances. Failure of the plantation. Until the twentieth century, the Empire couldn't figure out how to cultivate sandalwood because they didn't understand that the plant is actually a partial root parasite. French perfumes and the creation of "the Sandalwood City".

---

Selling at about $147,000 per metric ton, the aromatic heartwood of Indian sandalwood (S. album) is arguably [among] the most expensive wood in the world. Globally, 90 per cent of the world’s S. album comes from India [...]. And within India, around 70 per cent of S. album comes from the state of Karnataka [...] [and] the erstwhile Kingdom of Mysore. [...] [T]he species came to the brink of extinction. [...] [O]verexploitation led to the sandal tree's critical endangerment in 1974. [...]

---

Francis Buchanan’s 1807 A Journey from Madras through the Countries of Mysore, Canara and Malabar is one of the few European sources to offer insight into pre-colonial forest utilisation in the region. [...] Buchanan records [...] [the] tradition of only harvesting sandalwood once every dozen years may have been an effective local pre-colonial conservation measure. [...] Starting in 1786, Tipu Sultan [ruler of Mysore] stopped trading pepper, sandalwood and cardamom with the British. As a result, trade prospects for the company [East India Company] were looking so bleak that by November 1788, Lord Cornwallis suggested abandoning Tellicherry on the Malabar Coast and reducing Bombay’s status from a presidency to a factory. [...] One way to understand these wars is [...] [that] [t]hey were about economic conquest as much as any other kind of expansion, and sandalwood was one of Mysore’s most prized commodities. In 1799, at the Battle of Srirangapatna, Tipu Sultan was defeated. The kingdom of Mysore became a princely state within British India [...]. [T]he East India Company also immediately started paying the [new rulers] for the right to trade sandalwood.

British control over South Asia’s natural resources was reaching its peak and a sophisticated new imperial forest administration was being developed that sought to solidify state control of the sandalwood trade. In 1864, the extraction and disposal of sandalwood came under the jurisdiction of the Forest Department. [...] Colonial anxiety to maximise profits from sandalwood meant that a government agency was established specifically to oversee the sandalwood trade [...] and so began the government sandalwood depot or koti system. [...]

From the 1860s the [British] government briefly experimented with a survey tallying every sandal tree standing in Mysore [...].

Instead, an intricate system of classification was developed in an effort to maximise profits. By 1898, an 18-tiered sandalwood classification system was instituted, up from a 10-tier system a decade earlier; it seems this led to much confusion and was eventually reduced back to 12 tiers [...].

---

Meanwhile, private European companies also made significant inroads into Mysore territory at this time. By convincing the government to classify forests as ‘wastelands’, and arguing that Europeans would improves these tracts from their ‘semi-savage state’, starting in the 1860s vast areas were taken from local inhabitants and converted into private plantations for the ‘production of cardamom, pepper, coffee and sandalwood’.

---

Yet attempts to cultivate sandalwood on both forest department and privately owned plantations proved to be a dismal failure. There were [...] major problems facing sandalwood supply in the period before the twentieth century besides overexploitation and European monopoly. [...] Before the first quarter of the twentieth century European foresters simply could not figure out how to grow sandalwood trees effectively.

The main reason for this is that sandal is what is now known as a semi-parasite or root parasite; besides a main taproot that absorbs nutrients from the earth, the sandal tree grows parasitical roots (or haustoria) that derive sustenance from neighbouring brush and trees. [...] Dietrich Brandis, the man often regaled as the father of Indian forestry, reported being unaware of the [sole significant English-language scientific paper on sandalwood root parasitism] when he worked at Kew Gardens in London on South Asian ‘forest flora’ in 1872–73. Thus it was not until 1902 that the issue started to receive attention in the scientific community, when C.A. Barber, a government botanist in Madras [...] himself pointed out, 'no one seems to be at all sure whether the sandalwood is or is not a true parasite'.

Well into the early decades of twentieth century, silviculture of sandal proved a complete failure. The problem was the typical monoculture approach of tree farming in which all other species were removed and so the tree could not survive. [...]

The long wait time until maturity of the tree must also be considered. Only sandal heartwood and roots develop fragrance, and trees only begin developing fragrance in significant quantities after about thirty years. Not only did traders, who were typically just sailing through, not have the botanical know-how to replant the tree, but they almost certainly would not be there to see a return on their investments if they did. [...]

---

The main problem facing the sustainable harvest and continued survival of sandalwood in India [...] came from the advent of the sandalwood oil industry at the beginning of the twentieth century. During World War I, vast amounts of sandal were stockpiled in Mysore because perfumeries in France had stopped production and it had become illegal to export to German perfumeries. In 1915, a Government Sandalwood Oil Factory was built in Mysore. In 1917, it began distilling. [...] [S]andalwood production now ramped up immensely. It was at this time that Mysore came to be known as ‘the Sandalwood City’.

---

Text above by: Ezra Rashkow. "Perfumed the axe that laid it low: The endangerment of sandalwood in southern India." Indian Economic and Social History Review 51, no. 1, pages 41-70. March 2014. [Bold emphasis and some paragraph breaks/contractions added by me. Italicized first paragraph/heading in this post added by me. Presented here for commentary, teaching, criticism purposes.]

[communistkenobi]

i’d love to get your take on the physical geography/human geography “divide”. we spent a lot of time debating the merits of having both in my first year phd course and in my opinion as a physical geographer the opportunities for interdisciplinary collaboration far outweigh any of the issues with housing physical and social scientists together

my familiarity with this debate primarily comes from the academic discourse around the concept of the “Anthropocene” (ie the period in Earth’s history where human beings have made a measurable, global impact on the environment, almost always spoken about in the context of climate change). The way I’ve seen this term used is to argue that the period of the Anthropocene is collapsing the physical/human geography divide, that even if we could separate these disciplines in the past, we can no longer partition the environmental from the social.

I’m partial to critical interventions in this discourse (which is how I will answer your question) - that the ‘human impact’ we’re talking about is actually a function of colonialism, imperialism, and capitalism, not some abstract universal ‘human impact’. Modern human beings have existed on Earth for nearly two hundred thousand years, and human-made climate change has only occurred in roughly the last two centuries - a microscopic timeframe when talking about Earth’s climate. People in the Global South, in imperialized countries, and indigenous and Black peoples in settler colonies are not the classes who produce industrial levels of carbon emissions or wreak industrial-scale environmental devastation - that is the ruling class & the imperial states of the world. Hoelle & Kawa (2021) argue in Placing the Anthropos in Anthropocene that we should call it the plantationocene or capitalocene, because human-made climate change is a function of specific historical and material processes, not some generalized, ahistorical "human impact." Likewise, "human impact" is an imprecise and colonial definition of human involvement with the environment, which dismisses Indigenous peoples' complex and highly sophisticated relationships with what are understood by the Western world to be "pristine environs" (arising from the doctrine of terra nullius, or empty land, which justified colonial expansion into the American continent because there was "no civilization there") such as the Amazon Rainforest, which should be understood as a human-made ecological system the same way we understand farmlands to be human-made (see Roosevelt's 2014 The Amazon and the Anthropocene: 13,000 Years of Human Influence in a Tropical Rainforest).

therefore I think it's productive to think of the divide between the physical and the human geographies as a colonial framework, or at least one that is deeply implicated in colonial thinking - it positions the environment as an ‘object’ terrain that ‘subjects’ are situated on top of, as opposed to understanding human beings as part of nature. This is part of the logic that relegates Indigenous people to the status of animals ("savages"), as "part of" nature, while human 'subjects', ie white bourgeois Europeans, are separated from nature (see Quijano's 2000 Coloniality of Power, Eurocentrism, and Latin America). This type of thinking is attributed to climate change-denialism in fascist circles (see Acker's 2020 What Could Carbofascism Look Like?), whose denialism is premised on a settler colonial understanding of the environment as a resource to be dominated and extracted from - the environment has no agency in this framework, no ability to react to the violence of colonial extraction, it is a purely inert economic resource. Likewise, this psychical/human divide obfuscates the fact that historical processes like colonialism are also environmental processes. In North America, the genocides of indigenous peoples carried out by European settlers over the past five centuries have been so monumental that the resulting reduction in carbon dioxide output by human bodies is measurable in the geological record (see Hoelle & Kawa again). The environmental devastation of silver mining in South America led by Spanish colonizers, and the resulting misery inflicted on colonized peoples forced to conduct this mining (see Galeano's 1971 The Open Veins of Latin America) was foundational to the forming of the modern Spanish nation-state, who imported so much stolen silver into Europe that they crashed their own economy (see chapter 3 of Perry Anderson’s 1974 Lineages of the Absolutist State).

Likewise, efforts at environmental protections from Indigenous nations has resulted in unique advancements in the law, such as enshrining legal personhood on rivers, as was the case with the Whanganui River in Aotearoa (see Brierly et al's 2018 A geomorphic perspective on the rights of the river in Aotearoa New Zealand), or the forsaking of sovereign mining rights by the state in order to protect indigenous land claims for environmental protection, as was the case in Ecuador (see Gümplova's 2019 Yasuní ITT Initiative and the reinventing of sovereignty over natural resources). These are social, political, and legal efforts at environmental protection, done with an eye towards decolonization (or at the very least, decolonial policy regimes), and separating the environmental from the social in trying to understand this subject would be absurd.

And so the question of discipline specificity is obviously bound up in these debates, and the academic production of environmental scientists on the one hand and geographic social scientists on the other is part of the maintenance of that divide. Environmental protection policy requires specialised knowledge of the environments being protected, and that specialised knowledge likewise requires expertise in how state policy functions. And it has required decades and centuries of resistance and legal challenges for Indigenous people to be involved in these respective sites of knowledge production - all of this is bound up in debates about if we should keep the physical and human geographies separated. I think the example of medical doctors talking about “shit life syndrome” (ie the medical problems faced by people as a result of poverty and inequality) speaks to a consequence of the debates around disciplinary divides - most medical doctors are not social policy experts, it’s not their job to write legislation or policy programs, their job is to provide medical services to people, but they are nonetheless identifying in their supposedly separate discipline of medicine and human biology the harmful social outputs of capitalist societies, which is intense systemic poverty

[rhaenin-time]

It's all, "The Targaryens are colonizers," until you point out that they left Valyria and assimilated into the local power structure, whereas the Andals still live in a very particular type of feudal societal structure that does not occur 'organically' and in fact is the result of a collapsed previously-centralized imperial power structure which in this case is also a settler-colonial power structure that was fueled by their version of Manifest Destiny and enabled through genocide of the remaining Children and the imposition of their self-described "universal" culture, power structure, and faith-system upon the pre-existing population. All of which resulting in a particular kind of power structure enabled by and deeply connected to that history that, I repeat, they still live according to. In which case the Targaryens, having distinguished themselves from the imperial power structure that they left, divested from, and took measures to prevent from rising again, and having proceeded to embrace change and adaptivity (to the point of assimilation) are actually less colonial than the culture they assimilate into.

And then it's still, "The Targaryens are colonizers." Because these people don't understand or even really care about colonialism. It's just another word for "foreigner I don't like."

[bodymachine]

regarding the “the american education system didn’t teach ___ so i never learned it” posts, some of you are veryyyy much missing what’s wrong w/ those statements when you give the blanket retort that the american education system actually did teach ___. newsflash: public school curriculums aren’t the same in every school/district/county/state. but to take it a step further, the quality of public education depends on state laws and the funding available to schools, which funding depends largely on local property taxes, which means low-income communities end up with low-quality schooling, fewer extracurricular programs, fewer resources for disabled students, more corrupt administration. the system is not about problems with curriculum, it’s much more and much worse than that.

besides the property tax funding, standardized tests also play a huge shitty role in this mess. schools that don’t have high test scores, i.e. underfunded schools often with majority low-income black and brown students, are considered “low-performing” and actually get less funding from the government as a result, like needed funds can get cut, and their teachers get paid less (and don’t even get me started on how programs like teach for america are sending young, white, fully inexperienced teachers to the poorest schools).

standardized tests are chosen at the state level, so states with huge wealth disparities and obviously segregated districts (like CT where i’m from) are measuring the performance of poor kids and rich kids using the same content and scoring system to arbitrarily determine who’s smart enough to deserve a better funded education. so the tests, i.e. the government, clearly favor the success of rich, white students. and the problem isn’t so much which content gets taught and how, as it is how little the american government actually cares about kids learning and having promising futures. like, education truly isn’t the point of american public schools. what they care about is deciding who gets to thrive in the world once they become adults.

since schools with majority white and wealthy populations essentially set the bar for what kind of performance is “standard,” everyone else whose circumstances (academic or otherwise) don’t allow them to reach that level are set up by the system to fail. being a “low-performing” school means kids are forced to repeat grades, and graduation becomes something out of reach. the schools don’t care about their students’ needs (especially when the teachers and administrators are mostly white), and real-life factors beyond students’ control cause them to struggle in school and they end up getting punished/suspended/expelled at horrifying rates, and yeah there’s a whooooole host of reasons why school can fucking suck and i’m barely scratching the surface.

anyway, what i’m trying to say here is YES the american education system sucks—not just because certain topics related to racism and imperialism and american history and other countries are glanced over or fully left out of curriculum, but also because success is being gatekept by the white and wealthy. it’s actively a racist system. not being taught important things about the world, or not being taught in a way that is actually engaging, is a problem that anyone anywhere can face, but it’s particularly insidious when you realize that the school system is TRYING to harm poor, black, brown, and immigrant communities.

so just to circle back to the real problem on display in those ignorant posts, it really makes me sick that white liberals can develop such a whiny complex around their own insular lack of curiosity when they don’t even know what “american education system” they’re talking about. and trying to look better than them by saying they just weren’t paying attention in school is completely completely beside the point.