#this is a really good game :( doing my durge run where i make everyone worse

[aggressionbread]

ok evil astarion kinda breaks my heart tho

[crossdressingdeath]

Jaheira: Drop that stone. You will want your hands free for what comes next. Kyvir: Jaheira... what are you doing? Jaheira: Congratulating you, of course. You have won Bhaal's bloody blessing. Now you think you will step out into the world, and carve your name upon it. Minsc and I, we know better. We stood here a century ago, and watched this same ceremony unfold. We stand here again to show you how it ends: With your bones rotting beneath your father's hall - your name remembered by none. Kyvir: No... Please... Minsc: Jaheira... must it truly be this way? Jaheira: This path was not of our choosing, Minsc. But we must walk it all the same. What about you? Will you protect the world from what he has become? Astarion: I really hoped we could avoid being pawns for a dark god, but here we are, I suppose. I'm with you, my dear. Wherever this leads. Jaheira: Goodbye, Bhaalspawn. Harpers, to arms. Let's defend this city as we always have. Minsc: Boo and Minsc promise to make it swift, evil.

This seems like a good moment to mention that Jaheira's AI... broke this run. So she wouldn't follow me anywhere (I had to control her instead of Kyvir to keep her with the group, otherwise she would literally just stand still where she spawned no matter what I did) and she spent this whole fight standing there doing nothing. Didn't exactly help the tone, although it did make the fight easier.

Anyway. At least with Jaheira and Minsc it's not entirely hypocritical given their history with Bhaal, but Jaheira turning to the vampire ascendant who literally yesterday brutally killed seven thousand people for personal power and openly asking to ally with that guy instead of having any faith in her friend whose literal only misstep so far that she knows of is choosing not to commit suicide by Bhaal by refusing him is still a lot. There's something so self-righteous about Jaheira when it comes to Bhaalspawn; she openly thinks Durge should have died (and she knows full well what a horrific fate they'd suffer given she knew BG2 era Sarevok) rather than obey their father because that's what her sense of morality demands, which I suppose is fair enough on some level but like... the way she doesn't respond like this to anyone else's evil deeds bothers me. I'm not exaggerating, literally yesterday (in-game) Astarion killed seven thousand people and sent their souls to Mephistopheles in a single move for personal power and all she did was grumble about how she was going to keep an eye on him, and now she's asking him to help kill Durge, who in this run only agreed to become Chosen because they knew Bhaal would immediately kill them for saying no. There are so many points in this game where it feels like Durge's actions are treated as worse than everyone else's just because they're Bhaalspawn rather than "just" a vampire spawn or a Sharran or a gith loyal to Vlaakith or what have you, but the game never really engages with that. And I guess an argument could be made that Durge as both a Bhaalspawn and Bhaal's Chosen might be uniquely susceptible to an evil god's control (I don't know what the situation is with Dark Justiciar Shadowheart re the risk of Shar taking over), but even then I'd expect the tone to be more "I'm sorry it's come to this but I have to put you down for the good of everyone including you" and less "You're an evil monster and deserve to die". I'm sure it's all much more suitably black and white if you go full "I am the Chosen of Bhaal and the world is mine for Evil Reasons", but there's something... deeply unpleasant in Durge, feeling like they had no choice but to become Bhaal's Chosen because they knew the most likely fate that would befall them if they refused, outright begging their friends not to fight them while said friends dismiss them as evil and deserving of death with at most a moment's hesitation. If you play Chosen Durge as only doing this because the alternative was death, then Jaheira's basically calling you a monster for not obediently dropping dead for The Greater Good, and the game's total failure to acknowledge that drives me nuts.

[thistle-spores]

Some rambling thoughts on the Shadowlands

(contains discussion of Jaheira and Halsin's deaths)

*Please note that this is my first time really doing the Shadowlands and I'm going into it mostly blind (I do know some major plot stuff, but their locations and how those quests play out I'm not familiar with)

So Standev keeps failing at things and this is definitely because I'm unprepared for the fights, especially the swarming group fights with npcs to protect. That being said it does really add to the ambience of the Shadowlands, and I do think that playing as a Durge has made this even more interesting.

Standev has been very successful so far at overcoming the urges and striking a "balance" between the need to kill on the adventure and trying to only do it for good and productive purposes. But suddenly at the Last Light Inn when they try and do the same thing again, they fail. Isobel was felled running away from one of her attackers before Shadowheart could heal her. Jaheira panicked and cast an ice storm too close, taking out Shadowheart and injuring herself badly. Gale, Shadowheart and Standev died, only able to continue the adventure because Karlach ran around the back of the Inn to escape and got Withers to resurrect everyone. And so Jaheira is dead. Dammon is dead (though we did get Karlach's upgrade first, thank fuck). Everyone is dead.

Poking around Last Light Inn the group found Art Cullagh's corpse and figured out where to find Thaniel. Queue Halsin wanting to enter Shadowfell to find him and well...... he died too. So the Shadow Curse can't be lifted (as far as I'm aware).

These were an interesting series of events as Standev was technically doing everything "right" and "good," but they still failed and the world continued to get worse. They can control their urge, yet good and important people continue to die. Sometimes by their hand!

After the slaughter of Last Light Inn there is some Durge specific dialogue. I only picked 2 of the 4 options because some of them really didn't make sense for Standev (Wyll and Karlach's). I think it's interesting how the dialogue doesn't consider that the Durge just,,, failed to save the Inn. That being said it was very interesting that neither Shadowheart nor Gale lost approval for choosing the dialogue.

Also I don't know if this is part of the game or a glitch, but Standev in addition to Shadowheart was unaffected by the general Shadow Curse. Bhaal and Shar's influence feels very strong. Especially since both Shadowheart and Standev had bad reactions to the blessing of Selune.

Speaking of Shar. I think before the Shadowlands Standev was actually very curious about Shar? The endless night and numbing embrace that Shadowheart talks about is very tempting and comforting to Standev who alternates wildly between murderous urges and ecstasy, and psionic neutrality and deep emptiness/hunger. But then they get to the Shadowlands which seem to be taking away everything they've worked towards. They start questioning what Shadowheart says about the goddess, start doubting how Shar treats her (she has died twice). It's definitely leading up to Standev trying to turn Shadowheart away from Shar.

And on a final note on gods. Standev and crew all had Lathander's blessing (or whatever it's called) when going in to the Shadowlands and it definitely helped when saving the Harpers. So I think there's probably some incentive to go back and get Lathander's blood, since saving the Harpers was the only thing to go right so far, and especially since there's now no way to lift the Shadow Curse. Because Standev was definitely going to leave it and the creche alone (they did not recruit Lae'zel).

Anyways, ramble over I can't wait to see where this shitshow goes next.

(Also can we just pour one out for Karlach. She finally can touch people again only for Mizora to show up that night and then all the bullshit mentioned above rip).

[alicelufenia]

Minthara was my first romance (I technically started Gale and Shadowheart's, but I turned them down in act 2 before Minthara's confession), and it all started when I happened to see a way to justify my Sorcadin siding with the goblins, becoming an oathbreaker, and wanting to see what Minthara's act 1 romance was like. Afterwards, there was no going back, I had to continue the darker path to see where it leads.

By the time we were reunited in act 2 I was 100% on board, completely worth it imo. She has two absolutely banger moments in act 2 that have lived rent free in my head since November, and having romanced her earlier, made them both so much better. Minthara as an ally from start to finish is such an amazing character, and the way she changes without hitting a "redemption" point, is incredible from a writing and acting perspective (Emma Gregory is the GOAT)

By the time I finished that playthrough I got the best, or close to the best endings for everyone, including my Tav. She never gave in to despair at what she did, and spent all of act 2 in a desperate uphill climb to regain her humanity, with defending Isobel at Last Light being the turning point. By the start of act 3 she had reclaimed her oath (Devotion, using a mod to make it Oath of Glory) and was making the city and her companions better in every way, all while rocking maxed approval with Minthara (she was onboard initially with taking control of the Absolute, but ultimately decided, and convinced Minthara, that they can conquer and rule by their own might)

It was sooo fun cause that's nothing like I started the game thinking my character or the companions would go. I really thought I'd be romancing Karlach or Shadowheart, but all that changed the second I met Minthara. You're absolutely right, you can't fix her but she CAN make you worse (or better!)

When it was all said and done, if I could go back I'd do it all again. And plan to! I'm reworking Alice from a Tav into a Durge the next time I play her. Which will have to wait, I'm replaying as a "normal" good Tav to get the default experience, which already feels like a deviation or "secret" path haha 😆.

Your first playthrough will color your experience of later ones, that's for sure. Karlach and Wyll sticking around after act 1? Tieflings in Baldur's Gate? What a concept! It feels like DLC or New Game+.

Speaking of Minthara and Durge, yeeeeaah I guess that dialogue is technically still in the files, though I'm pretty sure they were inaccessible until a recent hotfix, which was reversed in the hotfix immediately after. But, while this is controversial, I agree! There SHOULD be tension between a redemption Durge and Minthara when she's the ONLY one on your side if you choose to accept Bhaal!

In fact, Minthara's disapproval would be the ONLY thing making me actually consider accepting Bhaal if I've been resisting up until that act 3 moment. As a Durge, Alice has excellent reasons not to become Bhaal's Chosen... But what if she could master it instead of denying the power? I love the thought, because in this early writing period (this will be fanfiction long before I can actually play a resist Durge run) I don't know what she'd pick! It really could go both ways, and you can't say that about most Durges, but with this one, and with Minthara, anything's possible.

So yes, even IF another companion manages to blow me away with their story, Minthara will still hold a special place in my heart, an inspiration for my creativity, and proof you can make unrepentive characters still be compelling, multifaceted individuals who make the story so much better with their presence.

Wyll: Why does Minthara call you babygirl?

Tav: Because I am her babygirl. Duh.

Wyll: You’re not worried about her past as…herself?

Tav: Everyone has past. I don’t care about her body count.

Wyll: …do you mean sex or actual kills?

Tav: Yes.

Wyll: And her future plans?

Tav: She plans to conquer the Spider Bitch’s realm. Realistically, that’s gonna take decades. Probably a century or two. All the while, I get to help her doing what I love. Destroying anything associated with Lloth.

Wyll: So nice of you to find a common interest.

Tav: It helps the relationship. You know, vibing at the same frequency.

The thing about Minthara that is so compelling about her is that she is irredeemable. She is that bad bitch.

SPOILERS

When you play as the Durge and refuse his power, she will break up with you. You can ask her about your shared love and she will mock you for it. What is love before literal divine power?

That is the crux of who she is.

I play “good” characters. Which made the prospect of romancing Minthara kinda none existent before Patch 5 rolled around. But then we got a way to get her without the mass murder of innocent people. But still, I approached the romance with Minthara much more deliberately than the others. She’s still ruthless and cruel. You want a hardass woman that goes soft for you, you gotta pick Lae���zel. Minthara will never compromise who she is.

Usually, it’s the established characters that get twisted to fit into a specific mold to romance your avatar. In Minthara’s case, I’m twisting my character to romance her. A good, male Seladrine Drow is usually a character that most people consider as far fetched as a partner for Minthara. And that’s why I like it. It’s a challenge, it makes the characters feel more real.

I guess I just wanna say thank you to Larian to writing a character so compelling.