#this is a quote from aa5 dlc!!!!

[thepoggersdilemma]

Thinking about Wright looking at Polly expectantly until he flusters and tells him to stop 🫷🛑 (does Wright know about the voices in Polly's head telling him to destroy people or not)

[velvees-archive]

save for the dual destinies dlc case, i’ve finished my first play through of the mainline ace attorney games. incredibly solid series. i have a draft with my thoughts on each case in the aj trilogy + game ratings. dunno if i’d wanna post it though, it’s kinda long.

so instead, i’ll post some misc thoughts about phoenix and edgeworth portrayals across mainline/aai + my personal favorite interpretations of them by the writing team!

spoilers for AA mainline and AAI duology

by far, my favorite phoenix portrayal is og trilogy phoenix. the way he interacts with his environment and the people around him is very authentic, albeit rude as hell (which, in hindsight, is even more authentic for phoenix, so…). saw someone’s tumblr post mention that phoenix is such a “straight guy” which…yeah LMAO. real to life accuracy, so much so it’s infuriating. i think what i’ve played of dd’s dlc case captures what i wanted to see from post-trilogy phoenix in that he’s still an asshole and comically stupid, but not actually stupid, if ykwim. something i disliked abt the rest of aa5 and aa6 is how the writing team watered his character down to the following two oversimplifications: “phoenix only wins cases bc he bluffs!” and “uhh...what evidence does phoenix present now?”

don’t mistake a silly man for a stupid man. mia calls phoenix a genius in the og trilogy. phoenix dives in head first but he’s meticulous when it comes to drawing out the truth. most of all, he doesn’t outwardly show how frazzled he is (see that one drew misham quote about phoenix quietly watching the court as he’s accused of forging evidence), even if he feels that way. i get the colorful usage of expressions is for comedic effect but it just makes him look like he doesn’t know wtf he’s doing, and that’s a disservice to his character. yes, he bluffs, but he isn’t clueless. anyway, i’m excited to replay the first trilogy now that i “know” second trilogy phoenix. that might also just be my way of saying “give me back MY phoenix”, bc the last time i’m (mostly) on board w his portrayal is in aa4, and even then i didn’t like the dialogue in his forged evidence trial.

*though, as of writing this, i’ve seen some good arguments abt his forged evidence trial dialogue that make me think ok maybe it was actually pretty accurate. let’s see wht i think on replay

on the other hand, my favorite edgeworth—at least in principle—is post-apollo justice edgeworth. in many ways, i think how he’s portrayed at 35 is how he would’ve been had dl-6 not occurred, barring his career choice. still a bit pompous, still fairly mean (at least on the surface, we all know he cares more than he lets on) and perhaps a bit uptight, but self-assured and just. the writing team makes a point to show that edgeworth doesn’t care about prestige or fancy titles. that feels like him in a way post-first trilogy edgeworth doesn’t. this particular point was fleshed out in aa1 and rfta, tho, so idk if i can give yamazaki credit for it.

there are some things that will always bother me abt post-first trilogy edgeworth (the problems are present in the aai duology as well) where the writing team shoves him into a box teeming with boring tropes for his character archetype.

an example:

creds for both these pictures: me

edgeworth is fine w pictures in the first trilogy, but comes to hate them in the aai duology.

ik it’s small but honestly what was the reason? what justification is there for this outside of wanting to fit edgeworth into a “cold character” stereotype?

bridge to the turnabout and turnabout ablaze are only about a month apart. i’m not buying into the sudden aversion to picture taking, regardless how minute a criticism it is. in any case, i feel like what i’m trying to say comes through w these screenshots: yamazaki’s edgeworth is always just a little off.

i am forgetting where i saw the post and i have too many liked posts to scroll thru to find it again but i saw a reblog?? tumblr post?? abt yamazaki and takumi’s diff approaches to edgeworth, where takumi says edgeworth listens to trot while yamazaki thinks he’d listen to classical music, and if that doesn’t drive the point home, idk wht will.

why then, did i enjoy post-aj edgeworth most? short answer is i’m taking liberties w his development and its implications. while i never completely buy into post-aa3 edgeworth, i can digest and get behind most of him when i’m not nitpicking, unlike w post-aj phoenix. does edgeworth feel a little uninspired and one- as opposed to three-dimensional? yeah, but his core is so strong i can overlook it. i’ll miss seeing a developed edgeworth when replaying the trilogy. him at 35 makes me feel warm inside.

anyway, i didn’t intend to start hating when i made this post bc i ultimately still believe the second trilogy was pretty good, if not overly ambitious with it's storytelling. maybe i'll post that AJ trilogy review.

overall, tho, t&t and aai2 were my favorite games to come out of the franchise. i’m going to do that slow replay of the first trilogy, aai duology, and aj:aa before making final judgments.

[bavaib]

Hey so I was in the middle of making a long post about Phoenix’s characterisation in dd (with quotes from the game to support me) but it got deleted so here’s a summary.

As a preface: this is not intended to single-handedly people who think that aa5 could have done more interesting things with Phoenix’s character development from Apollo Justice, or to shut down people who just don’t like Phoenix’s characterisation in the game anyway. In fact, I agree that there’s a lot of potential there which wasn’t explored (though this is a common thing with ace attorney games - I’d argue Edgeworth was in a similar position before the investigations games elaborated on his character). However, I’d like to give my two cents on the merits (and yes, the limitations) of Phoenix’s characterisation in dual destinies - because, while it may not be brilliant (and may not be executed that well), there is enough valuable there for me to not discount it as a negative change. This analysis does not include soj, however. I have my own issues with Phoenix in that game and the game itself - which does not capitalise on the positives of dd, instead compounding on its flaws and extending them to dd itself (e.g. how Phoenix is still the protagonist despite having literally nothing to do - something which was somewhat justified in dd). But nonetheless, Phoenix’s development in dd still has value, something which I feel is generally ignored in fandom discussion - or is, at least, not explicitly discussed.

Phoenix’s development in cases 2 and 3 (and partially the DLC) of Dual Destinies shows Phoenix intentionally moving away from his closed-off and stoic aa4 self, constructing a new social unit in the WAA which he clearly values, but which is then taken from him as he must grapple with broader circumstances in the dark age of the law and how it (largely through Beanix) affected his relationships - for example, with Apollo, who also values the WAA but cannot run from the unpleasant truths of the dark age of the law and must challenge Phoenix to demonstrate his growth. And furthermore, his courtroom demeanour is a consistent extension of not only Phoenix in the trilogy (which it obviously mimics) but also the character of Beanix below the facade - with the (main) game of dual destinies showing a chronological build-up to his time in court in 5-4 onwards with his improved self (which not only involves more openness a la the trilogy, but also maintains aspects of Beanix’s maturity as expressed in fatherhood - extended from Trucy towards the rest of the WAA). However, in saying that I acknowledge there are several issues in execution which come from merging Phoenix the player-avatar protagonist and Phoenix the developed and unique character. For example, the structure of the game immediately exposes the player to courtroom Phoenix in the last part of the game chronologically (the closest to trilogy Phoenix the game gets) instead of the more subtle moments of character development which the game actually has - making the player experience of Phoenix’s character jagged, which gives more legitimacy for the view of aa5’s developed Phoenix as a retreat to trilogy characterisation. Furthermore, the dlc case has the opposite problem - while released after the main game, chronologically it breaks the build-up of Phoenix’s arc in the courtroom even as it shows Phoenix’s more distinct personality outside of it. But one of the worst problems of characterisation here is how Phoenix’s knowledge of the overarching plot of the game seems to vary in order to preserve the twists of the game (a problem of dd more generally) - with the Phoenix and Edgeworth’s plan to acquit Blackquill (a fair justification to push Phoenix back into law - and a parallel to how Beanix consistently pushed for the Jurist System in aa4 - which with the dark age of the law could function as Phoenix’s swan-song as a protagonist, finally putting to rest the legal issues of the series) contrasting with the minimal knowledge he seems to have on anything regarding UR-1 itself (like, the murder case is public, apparently - though steeped in secrecy - and you’re telling me Phoenix doesn’t know who the victim was or that victim’s connection to his new employee? I can justify a lot of aa5 but it’s very difficult to do so here - it’s not even vagueness, which the dark age of the law is surrounded by, it feels like a contradiction) - which ultimately stems from how the game wants the protagonist to know as much as the audience in this moment (which they didn’t even have to do, but I digress) but how they also want to make the protagonist Phoenix (again, a separate problem of dd) when so much of Phoenix’s character within the game itself doesn’t support this sort of twist reaction.

TL;DR: Phoenix in Dual Destinies has a character arc that works/could work, however there are several issues which either make the arc more difficult to observe or actively work against it, and the game doesn’t do much to resolve them (with some aspects - e.g. the structure - seeming intentionally designed in a way that causes this character confusion). There are positives to the characterisation, and there are negatives to it - this post is not intending to invalidate either side’s points.

[naehja]

ace attorney

1. Favourite Ace Attorney game? Well I love them all. I love AA2 a little less that the others.

So

1)  AA3/DD

2) AA1/AJ/Spirit of Justice

3) AA2/ PL vs PE (more because I was never able to finish it)

2. Favourite case? Hum It’s hard to choose. In AA1? Rise of Ashes + Whe we defend Miles. aa2? Circus case. AA3? All of them. AJ? The last case. AA5? Every case of the game. AA6? Hum...I says that one where Trucy is accused. 

3. Favourite defendant? 1) Will Power 2) Athena and Simon  3)  MAAAYYYYYAAA (please can you stop to be accused one time by game? thank) 4) Trucy 5) Ron Delite 6) Iris 7) Feenie

4. Favourite prosecutor? 1) Miles 2) Simon 3) Franziska 4) Klavier

5. Favourite ship? NaruMisu  (Asouryuu for DGS)

6. Favourite victim?  Mia Fey - Misty Fey (can you please STOP killing maya’s family? thank)

Also 

Clay

7. Favourite murderer? Grant (he scared me first time i played). 

The Murderer in the Circus case was great too but it was so freaking SAD.

Kristoph was scary in his own ways. A vilain who hads never explained his reasons. A vilain who has killed, manipuled, abused and a lot of other thing and never explained WHY.

Good vilain.

I hate him so much.

8. Favourite assistant? ALL OF THEM

9. Favourite witness? Olbag, and Larry

(also the parrot)

10. Favourite quote? “Almost Christmas meaning that it was still not Christmas” and the “udapted auptosie report”

YOUR LEAST FAVOURITE…?

11. Least favourite Ace Attorney game? Justice for All, I love the Circus case but it’s the only case that I love in this game. I admit that the first one was terrible and that the tutorial one is hilarous but....the last was....I didn’t like it.

12. Least favourite case? Farewell, My Turnabout

13. Least favourite defendant?

It would be nice if Maya was not a defendant anymore. Maya, stop being accused of murder dammit!

Seriously Matt Engarde.

14. Least favourite prosecutor? GODOT!!! Payne is the tutorial prosecutor so we forgive his bad sides but Godot? 

SAYING THAT MIA DEATH IS PHOENIX’S FAULT AND THAT HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN HERE FOR PROTECT HER?

DOING NOTHING WHEN HE KNEW THE PLAN AND KILLING MISTY IN FRONT OF MAYA, ADMITTING THAT HE KILLED MISTY EVEN IF MISTY COULD HAVE RESISTED TO DAHLIA’S SPIRIT OR THAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN PEARL?

Yuta comes in place 2, because he has triggered Athena’s trauma IN PURPOSE for trigger a breakdown and that was not cool.

Payne is the place 3 but he’s the tutorial and he’s cursed since 100 years to never be able to beat a nuruhodo (phoenix’s family) XD

15. Least favourite ship? KristophxPhoenix or DalhiaxPhoenix

16. Least favourite victim? The guy from Mia first trial. Terry Fawles. Also the Attorney who has been killed by Yogi in A-3.

17. Least favourite murderer? Hu....How was his name...the detective in AA3? Atmey (even if his plan was freaking clever)   ? Also the murderer in AA1-1 (boring). 

Yogi was boring too, until he finally stopped act like a idiot and assume his reponsabilities.

But the FIRST? THE ONE THAT I HATE THE MOST?

DALHIA!!!

I HATE HER SO MUCH.

18. Least favourite assistant? I love everyone of them.

19. Least favourite witness? Haha...Generally they are great. But I’ll say the Orca XD (a least the parrot could talk)

20. Least favourite memory of Ace Attorney? The Bad ending in AA2

The panties thief too

DO YOU PREFER…?

21. Phoenix Wright or Apollo Justice? Phoenix

22. Maya Fey or Trucy Wright?  

*softly* how dare you make me choose?

Monster!

23. Investigations or trials? BOTH. Well except if Payne is the prosecutor. I rather investigate that dealing with him.

24. College Phoenix or Hobo Phoenix? Feenie or Hobo? Both are awesome. The first is adorable dumbass in love, the other is so sassy and depressed. I love them both.

25. Klavier Gavin or Kristoph Gavin? Klavier.

Kristoph can burn in Hell with Dalhia and Manfred.

26. Ace Attorney or Ace Attorney Investigations? Sadely I never played investigations =(, so Ace Attorney

27. Apollo’s perceive, Phoenix’s magatama or Athena’s Mood Matrix? ALL OF THEM

28. Ace Attorney trilogy or Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies?ALL OF THEM

29. 3D models or sprites? 3D are nice, but the remake in HD are great too

30. Ema Skye as she is in Rise from the Ashes or Ema Skye as she is in Apollo Justice? BOTH! Her relation with her sister for the first, and his sassy mode in AJ. 

MISCELLANEOUS

31. Did you like what they did to Phoenix in Apollo Justice?  I’m happy that he stopped to be a depressed hobo in DD. He breaks my heart in AJ.

32. Your opinion on Dai Gyakuten Saiban? I WANT TO PLAY TT

33. Do you think Dai Gyakuten Saiban and/or Miles Edgeworth Investigations 2 will get localised to the West? Maybe it will happen in 2021 for DGS 1 and 2, the rumors seems more accurate this time. (see the news about the hack of Capcom)

34. Do you think Miles Edgeworth should get another Investigation-game or do you think another character deserves a spin-off? YES YES YES A new Investigation with Phoenix, Franziska, Trucy, but then Athena, Fay and Klavier would follow Edegeworth too (he can’t have holiday with his husband, daugther and sister, right?)

A spin-off with Apollo would be nice too but with no Trucy, No Athena, no Klavier?

I would  pass.

Or maybe spin-off with Mia; with Phoenix as student/co-council but without Maya or Miles then

so I would pass too.

35. Opinion on the soundtrack of the Ace Attorney-franchise? It’s nice =) Some characters have a awesome theme XD

36. Do you like where the franchise is heading or did you prefer the atmosphere in the original trilogy? I think that getting Apollo out of the story was a mistake TT

37. Capcom suddenly announces that Phoenix will no longer appear in the Ace Attorney franchise! Your reaction?

38. Capcom suddenly announces that the Ace Attorney franchise has ended for good! Your reaction?

39. Would you like there to be another Ace Attorney/Professor Layton crossover game? YES!! YES!! Imagine Alfendi as inspector of the case XD

40. Would you like an Ace Attorney anime? We have one. It's super cool =) and there are fillers about baby Miles, Larry and Phoenix. Nick literally wrote a love letter diffused to radio to Miles XD And the whole cas with Iris? AWESOME!!

41. Opinion on anime cutscenes in Ace Attorney? They are cool =)

42. Would you want to play an Ace Attorney game where you take on the prosecutors role? If Phoenix is the adversaire, we couldn't win XD (welcome in Miles hell guys) Also it would mean all our clients would be guilty right?

43. Do you like having DLC in Ace Attorney-games? YES!! It's just a shame that you have to pay “so mcuh” for them when you already pay the game. But Phoenix defending a orca? Phoenix speak wedding with Miles? TAKE MY MONEY!!!

44. Opinion on Lamiroir’s storyline? Sad. Very sad. Now it would be great if she could talk to her kids. Phoenix is nice to respect her will but both Apollo and Trucy deserve to know.

45. One thing you think the Ace Attorney games can improve on? More Athena, More NaruMitsu. AND APOLLO BETTER TO RETURN!!

46. Capcom suddenly announces an Ace Attorney movie! Would you like it to be based on an already existing case or would you like an all new storyline? Why not do a movie with Rise of Ashes? =) Or a New Storyline But the story better to be cool.

47. Capcom suddenly announces an Ace Attorney movie! Would you prefer it being live-action, 3D animated or 2D animated? Like the anime we already had. The live-action wasn't so cool, compared to the anime.

48. If there could be an Ace Attorney crossover with whatever franchise you’d like, which one would you choose? (Does not need to be a video-game franchise) Hum. Professor Layton again. OR a time travel crossover with the Great Ace Attorney. OR Detective Conan.

49. Opinion on recurring witnesses? (Wendy Oldbag, Lotta Hart, Larry Butz, etc.) Olbag is a gift!!! Larry is a treasure!! Lotta is funny =)

50. Do you think Dual Destinies deserved its M-rating? OMG YES YES 1000X YES. I mean have you seen Athena trauma?