#thinking about how the trans community cannot continue to ignore intersex history and our part in perpetuating marginalisation
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i do sometimes think about community histories that come from similar spaces, especially pre-certain-words-being coined, and while i do understand the drive to go "no you [x identity] go away, this one is for us!" because often certain queer communities are woefully ignored and talked over, i also have an instinct for wanting to bring communities together because they were often one and the same community, or the words were conflated in certain ways and there's almost never a "this one is for us" that is as neat as people like to pretend (flashbacks to "butch and femme are lesbian-only terms" although ofc sometimes it really is importantly a closed community term, like the word "stud")
sometimes historically you cannot neatly map a label onto a person/group/event/idea because that terminology was different, and we cannot go back and ask what would work best using today's terminology anymore than we can travel to the future to see what it'll evolve into that might work better than today, but also maybe it's important to find some middle-point between a lack of clear terminology and community spaces that are divided into their own, clear sections
but in order for people to not feel overlooked and mocked the work needs to be done from all facets of the queer community to go outside ones own personal identity to make a history queer rather than "just" [insert x here]. and i hope that one day that work will make us more unified as a series of political and philosophical ideals and less disparate groups without bleed-through or overlap, even when one personally may feel quite easily placed within an identity
idk, it's the idea of "personal identity" vs "political coalition" but it's also just quite sad to try and box us in again
#there's a lot within this... thinking about anne lister's rainbow plaque being protested because it included the word *genderqueer*#as well as lesbian#thinking about words like *qpr* and how the ace and the aro community comes from many of the same community groups and ideas#and how ive been very happy for the word aspec to come into use because it also further broadens the Possibilities for the *A*#but also how aspec identities exist within all the other alphabet letters (especially visibly bisexual histories)#thinking about how the trans community cannot continue to ignore intersex history and our part in perpetuating marginalisation#but also how intersex and trans history has often been the same history and cannot be called neatly one or the other#and what this means for our potential futures as visibly othered bodies. what that common ground needs in order to exist#thinking about how so many of us with perhaps clearer distinctions today#would have been in very different community spaces in the past (the likelihood that i might have been a lesbian is one i think about a lot)#(despite my attractions mapping more neatly along queer men aesthetically)#(but also thinking about people like zinaida gippius or dora carrington... for me personally... but also lou sullivan... it ain't that easy#queer stuff#queer history#queer community#queer coalition#queer solidarity#queer politics#queer rights
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Here's what actual trans military voices have to say about Trump's ban.
An estimated 15,000 trans people currently serve in the military.
In June 2016, the U.S. secretary of defense made a long-overdue announcement: The military was ending its ban on transgender service members.
With the 2011 end to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy banning gay, lesbian, and bisexual people from serving, allowing trans people to serve openly seemed like the logical next step.
As then-Secretary of Defense Ash Carter explained, “Our mission is to defend this country, and we don’t want barriers unrelated to a person’s qualifications to serve preventing us from recruiting or retaining the soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine who can best accomplish the mission.”
Fast-forward a year, and President Trump has undone that progress, tweeting that "the United States Government will not accept or allow transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. military."
He cited "tremendous medical costs" as the reason behind his decision despite the fact that a RAND Corporation study found that the total additional cost of allowing trans people to serve in the military is $2.4 million-8.4 million. (For comparison, in 2014, the military spent more than 10 times that on erectile dysfunction medication alone.)
After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow......
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 26, 2017
....Transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military. Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming.....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 26, 2017
....victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail. Thank you
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 26, 2017
But maybe Trump's decision wasn't about cost at all. According to Axios reporter Jonathan Swan, a Trump administration official was quoted as saying the move "forces Democrats in Rust Belt states like Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin, to take complete ownership of this issue."
"How will the blue collar voters in these states respond when senators up for re-election in 2018 like Debbie Stabenow are forced to make their opposition to this a key plan of their campaigns?" Swan quoted the official as saying.
In other words, Trump's decision doesn't seem to be about readiness, cost, or any of the other reasons frequently tossed around by opponents of trans inclusion in the military. Instead, it's just a game of politics, with trans lives as pawns.
There are currently an estimated 15,000 trans people serving in the military. What do they think of Trump reinstating the ban? We asked them.
Amanda Clark was discharged back in 2007 after coming out as trans. While she says she's ambivalent about military service, she sees this as a matter of basic civil rights.
"I can’t possibly fathom what openly out trans people in the military are feeling right now. Hell, I feel scared now just being a trans person in the civilian world. It feels like the f*cking fascists who run this country are coming for us, and openly serving trans people are next. I’m sure a lot of officers/[non-commissioned officers] are going to be thrilled to get involved in paperwork hell discharging folks."
Kristen Carella, who served on active duty 2001-2005 as an intelligence analyst stationed in Germany, pointed out that many U.S. allies (18 in total, including Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Spain, and the United Kingdom) allow trans people to serve without issue.
"Here was an opportunity for this country to move forward, recognizing the sacrifices transgender people have ALWAYS made in the armed forces, by allowing us to serve openly. [According to Human Rights Campaign] stats 26% of the trans community serves in the military at some point during their lives, that is TWICE the rate of the general population. Trump's decision is a stunning reversal that can be taken only as a slap in the face, personally to every transgender person who has ever served. It accomplishes nothing more than making sure transgender people remain a demonized and hated target that right-wing politicians can target to scare their base and push their agendas. Of course, all of this demonization ensures that the ignorant violence which leads bigots to murder transgender people in the streets (particularly trans women of color) will continue."
Penelope R., an intersex trans woman who served in the Air Force for six years before leaving to pursue transition, says "members are going to die" because of this new policy, and she urges those who might not generally support the military to care about this.
"[The] American military, despite its many infelicities, has always been a reliable space for many kinds of marginalized people to hide out in. This is why trans people are disproportionately represented in the military. Enlisting was always a last resort for me — I've known I was trans since I was a child, and knew going into the military meant carving away parts of my identity I cherished, but at the time the alternative was death. Just death. I chose to live, and as a result I met my wife, found a chosen family that makes the sun rise for me, made enough money to afford transition, and qualified me to receive transitional health care from the Illinois VA. ... The military helped make my life worth living. And now it's all gone to shit for everyone. Despite what he says, there's nothing Trump can say or do to stop trans people from serving — he can only get rid of those he knows about. It will only go back to how it was before, with trans service members confined to the closet at the risk of their careers."
Then-Defense Secretary Ash Carter lifts the ban on trans troops on June 30, 2016. Photo by Saul Loeb/AFP/Getty Images.
Landon Wilson, who served in the Navy and was the topic of a widely read 2014 Washington Post profile about trans people in the military, points out that the ban means "honorably serving people" will be removed from service, "effectively weakening our country."
"It's a heartbreaking shame that the President of the United States is choosing to ignore the sacrifices of transgender service members, particularly at a time where so many have proven their dedication to this country. A diverse military makes a strong military; by removing honorably serving people from service, the President is effectively weakening our country, both as a fighting force and as a leader in civil rights."
"Even when we've taken the uniform off, our service never stops." - @HiBoriPrincess #VeteransDay #OpenTransService http://pic.twitter.com/mBdneUM1Sv
— TransMilitary (@TransMilitary) November 11, 2015
Vivian Wise, an information systems technician on active duty in the Navy, came out to her shipmates the day President Obama and Secretary Carter lifted the ban in 2016. She disagrees with President Trump's assertion that trans people serving in the military is a "disruption."
"To say that my service has been a 'disruption' is an outright lie. My Commanding Officer, immediate superiors and co-workers have all been fully supportive of me. I am one of the senior technicians within my division, responsible for training our new sailors and managing our day-to-day and week-to-week work list. I was, until just now, being groomed to lead one of our division's two watch teams for our upcoming deployment, beginning late next year. In that capacity, I serve a critical role in my work center. Summarily discharging me from military service, for nothing more than petty bigotry and electoral politics, is the disruption. The GOP as a whole, and the Trump administration in particular, are degrading my unit and hundreds if not thousands of other units across the armed services by taking away valuable people. We, and the American people, deserve better than this."
Cisgender allies, activists, and experts are voicing their concerns, as well.
In an email, TransMilitary co-director and executive producer Fiona Dawson (who, in 2015, documented the story of two trans service members who fell in love) weighed in on the move, saying she hopes Trump will actually take the time to meet some of the trans personnel he deems unfit for service.
"Donald Trump's assertions against transgender service members are baseless. Science and ethics determine there is no rational reason why the thousands of transgender women and men who have been defending our country and fighting for our freedom for hundreds of years should not be permitted to continue doing so."
Former Secretary Carter offered his opinion on the reinstatement of the discriminatory policy as well, saying that it "has no place in our military."
Ex-DefSec Carter: "To choose service members on other grounds than military qualifications is social policy & has no place in our military." http://pic.twitter.com/Y1SjfYK7Ug
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) July 26, 2017
Advocacy organizations and civil rights groups across the country are issuing press releases, denouncing the tweet on a number of grounds.
The Palm Center called this "a worse version of 'Don't Ask Don't Tell'" and hit Trump over his claims of "tremendous costs."
"As we know from the sad history of that discredited policy, discrimination harms military readiness. This is a shocking and ignorant attack on our military and on transgender troops who have been serving honorably and effectively for the past year. As former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen stated yesterday, their service must be respected. The Rand Corporation has estimated that the cost of medical care for transgender troops is approximately one one-hundredth of one percent of the military annual health care budget, or at most, $8.4 million per year. To claim otherwise is to lie about the data."
Tyler Deaton of the American Unity Fund, a conservative LGBTQ organization, criticized Trump for going back on what he saw as LGBTQ-friendly campaign promises in a statement that is long but worth reading in its entirety:
"President Trump promised to protect the transgender community. As President, he said he was 'respectful and supportive of LGBTQ rights' and would 'protect the community from violence and oppression.' But President Trump has broken his promise and, coupled with his administration's efforts to roll back protections for transgender students in our nation's public schools, he is developing an undeniable pattern of anti-gay and anti-transgender policy while in office. ... As conservatives and advocates for LGBTQ freedom, AUF calls on President Trump to reconsider his comments, and stand with all of our soldiers, including those who are transgender."
Former Justice Department official Vanita Gupta, currently president and CEO of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, slammed Trump's move as "yet another broken promise to the American people."
"President Trump doesn't understand that our military is stronger when there are no discriminatory barriers to service. The civil and human rights community will continue to loudly and proudly stand up for the rights of all who are willing to protect the security of our country, including the thousands of transgender people currently serving in our military."
And of course, there was pushback from a number of Democratic and Republican politicians alike.
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-California) commented on the sad irony of Trump's decision to increase discrimination on the 69th anniversary of President Truman's order to desegregate the military.
.@POTUS has shown his conduct is driven not by honor, decency, or national security, but by prejudice. https://t.co/PHTlXMhEJg http://pic.twitter.com/X9rYhn5Jic
— Nancy Pelosi (@NancyPelosi) July 26, 2017
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-New York) announced plans to introduce legislation that would overrule Trump's decision.
This morning, transgender service members put on uniform and showed up to their military duties...
— Kirsten Gillibrand (@SenGillibrand) July 26, 2017
This new decision is harmful and misguided. It weakens—not strengthens—our military. And I’ll do everything in my power to fight it.
— Kirsten Gillibrand (@SenGillibrand) July 26, 2017
Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-New York) highlighted the number of trans people serving in the military.
To @POTUS: Don't tell me #trans military service members who serve this country are any less courageous or deserving b/c of who they are. http://pic.twitter.com/XNQKKTnWw5
— (((Rep. Nadler))) (@RepJerryNadler) July 26, 2017
Rep. Illeana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Florida), who has a transgender son, spoke out against it as well.
No American, no matter their sexual orientation or gender identity, should be prohibited from honor + privilege of serving our nation #LGBT
— Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (@RosLehtinen) July 26, 2017
Rep. Joe Kennedy III (D-Massachusetts) offered to stand in solidarity with trans soldiers.
To the thousands of #trans men+women bravely serving our nation in uniform: Thank you. We do not take your patriotism for granted. https://t.co/bguuL4tx0f
— Rep. Joe Kennedy III (@RepJoeKennedy) July 26, 2017
Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) said "transgender people are people, and deserve the best we can do for them."
Senator Hatch's full comments on the issue of transgender Americans in the military. #utpol http://pic.twitter.com/EDS6JRXJaj
— Senator Hatch Office (@senorrinhatch) July 26, 2017
And Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-New York) called trans service members "patriots."
Transgender Americans are serving honorably in our military. We stand with these patriots.
— Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer) July 26, 2017
Trans people exist in the world and have every right to engage in the same activities and occupations as anybody else.
This is a big deal, and it's not just a distraction. Nobody should be discriminated against for who they are — not in the military, not in education, not in housing, not in employment, not in health care, not at all.
0 notes
Text
Here's what actual trans military voices have to say about Trump's ban.
An estimated 15,000 trans people currently serve in the military.
In June 2016, the U.S. secretary of defense made a long-overdue announcement: The military was ending its ban on transgender service members.
With the 2011 end to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy banning gay, lesbian, and bisexual people from serving, allowing trans people to serve openly seemed like the logical next step.
As then-Secretary of Defense Ash Carter explained, “Our mission is to defend this country, and we don’t want barriers unrelated to a person’s qualifications to serve preventing us from recruiting or retaining the soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine who can best accomplish the mission.”
Fast-forward a year, and President Trump has undone that progress, tweeting that "the United States Government will not accept or allow transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. military."
He cited "tremendous medical costs" as the reason behind his decision despite the fact that a RAND Corporation study found that the total additional cost of allowing trans people to serve in the military is $2.4 million-8.4 million. (For comparison, in 2014, the military spent more than 10 times that on erectile dysfunction medication alone.)
After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow......
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 26, 2017
....Transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military. Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming.....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 26, 2017
....victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail. Thank you
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 26, 2017
But maybe Trump's decision wasn't about cost at all. According to Axios reporter Jonathan Swan, a Trump administration official was quoted as saying the move "forces Democrats in Rust Belt states like Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin, to take complete ownership of this issue."
"How will the blue collar voters in these states respond when senators up for re-election in 2018 like Debbie Stabenow are forced to make their opposition to this a key plan of their campaigns?" Swan quoted the official as saying.
In other words, Trump's decision doesn't seem to be about readiness, cost, or any of the other reasons frequently tossed around by opponents of trans inclusion in the military. Instead, it's just a game of politics, with trans lives as pawns.
There are currently an estimated 15,000 trans people serving in the military. What do they think of Trump reinstating the ban? We asked them.
Amanda Clark was discharged back in 2007 after coming out as trans. While she says she's ambivalent about military service, she sees this as a matter of basic civil rights.
"I can’t possibly fathom what openly out trans people in the military are feeling right now. Hell, I feel scared now just being a trans person in the civilian world. It feels like the f*cking fascists who run this country are coming for us, and openly serving trans people are next. I’m sure a lot of officers/[non-commissioned officers] are going to be thrilled to get involved in paperwork hell discharging folks."
Kristen Carella, who served on active duty 2001-2005 as an intelligence analyst stationed in Germany, pointed out that many U.S. allies (18 in total, including Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Spain, and the United Kingdom) allow trans people to serve without issue.
"Here was an opportunity for this country to move forward, recognizing the sacrifices transgender people have ALWAYS made in the armed forces, by allowing us to serve openly. [According to Human Rights Campaign] stats 26% of the trans community serves in the military at some point during their lives, that is TWICE the rate of the general population. Trump's decision is a stunning reversal that can be taken only as a slap in the face, personally to every transgender person who has ever served. It accomplishes nothing more than making sure transgender people remain a demonized and hated target that right-wing politicians can target to scare their base and push their agendas. Of course, all of this demonization ensures that the ignorant violence which leads bigots to murder transgender people in the streets (particularly trans women of color) will continue."
Penelope R., an intersex trans woman who served in the Air Force for six years before leaving to pursue transition, says "members are going to die" because of this new policy, and she urges those who might not generally support the military to care about this.
"[The] American military, despite its many infelicities, has always been a reliable space for many kinds of marginalized people to hide out in. This is why trans people are disproportionately represented in the military. Enlisting was always a last resort for me — I've known I was trans since I was a child, and knew going into the military meant carving away parts of my identity I cherished, but at the time the alternative was death. Just death. I chose to live, and as a result I met my wife, found a chosen family that makes the sun rise for me, made enough money to afford transition, and qualified me to receive transitional health care from the Illinois VA. ... The military helped make my life worth living. And now it's all gone to shit for everyone. Despite what he says, there's nothing Trump can say or do to stop trans people from serving — he can only get rid of those he knows about. It will only go back to how it was before, with trans service members confined to the closet at the risk of their careers."
Then-Defense Secretary Ash Carter lifts the ban on trans troops on June 30, 2016. Photo by Saul Loeb/AFP/Getty Images.
Landon Wilson, who served in the Navy and was the topic of a widely read 2014 Washington Post profile about trans people in the military, points out that the ban means "honorably serving people" will be removed from service, "effectively weakening our country."
"It's a heartbreaking shame that the President of the United States is choosing to ignore the sacrifices of transgender service members, particularly at a time where so many have proven their dedication to this country. A diverse military makes a strong military; by removing honorably serving people from service, the President is effectively weakening our country, both as a fighting force and as a leader in civil rights."
"Even when we've taken the uniform off, our service never stops." - @HiBoriPrincess #VeteransDay #OpenTransService http://pic.twitter.com/mBdneUM1Sv
— TransMilitary (@TransMilitary) November 11, 2015
Vivian Wise, an information systems technician on active duty in the Navy, came out to her shipmates the day President Obama and Secretary Carter lifted the ban in 2016. She disagrees with President Trump's assertion that trans people serving in the military is a "disruption."
"To say that my service has been a 'disruption' is an outright lie. My Commanding Officer, immediate superiors and co-workers have all been fully supportive of me. I am one of the senior technicians within my division, responsible for training our new sailors and managing our day-to-day and week-to-week work list. I was, until just now, being groomed to lead one of our division's two watch teams for our upcoming deployment, beginning late next year. In that capacity, I serve a critical role in my work center. Summarily discharging me from military service, for nothing more than petty bigotry and electoral politics, is the disruption. The GOP as a whole, and the Trump administration in particular, are degrading my unit and hundreds if not thousands of other units across the armed services by taking away valuable people. We, and the American people, deserve better than this."
Cisgender allies, activists, and experts are voicing their concerns, as well.
In an email, TransMilitary co-director and executive producer Fiona Dawson (who, in 2015, documented the story of two trans service members who fell in love) weighed in on the move, saying she hopes Trump will actually take the time to meet some of the trans personnel he deems unfit for service.
"Donald Trump's assertions against transgender service members are baseless. Science and ethics determine there is no rational reason why the thousands of transgender women and men who have been defending our country and fighting for our freedom for hundreds of years should not be permitted to continue doing so."
Former Secretary Carter offered his opinion on the reinstatement of the discriminatory policy as well, saying that it "has no place in our military."
Ex-DefSec Carter: "To choose service members on other grounds than military qualifications is social policy & has no place in our military." http://pic.twitter.com/Y1SjfYK7Ug
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) July 26, 2017
Advocacy organizations and civil rights groups across the country are issuing press releases, denouncing the tweet on a number of grounds.
The Palm Center called this "a worse version of 'Don't Ask Don't Tell'" and hit Trump over his claims of "tremendous costs."
"As we know from the sad history of that discredited policy, discrimination harms military readiness. This is a shocking and ignorant attack on our military and on transgender troops who have been serving honorably and effectively for the past year. As former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen stated yesterday, their service must be respected. The Rand Corporation has estimated that the cost of medical care for transgender troops is approximately one one-hundredth of one percent of the military annual health care budget, or at most, $8.4 million per year. To claim otherwise is to lie about the data."
Tyler Deaton of the American Unity Fund, a conservative LGBTQ organization, criticized Trump for going back on what he saw as LGBTQ-friendly campaign promises in a statement that is long but worth reading in its entirety:
"President Trump promised to protect the transgender community. As President, he said he was 'respectful and supportive of LGBTQ rights' and would 'protect the community from violence and oppression.' But President Trump has broken his promise and, coupled with his administration's efforts to roll back protections for transgender students in our nation's public schools, he is developing an undeniable pattern of anti-gay and anti-transgender policy while in office. ... As conservatives and advocates for LGBTQ freedom, AUF calls on President Trump to reconsider his comments, and stand with all of our soldiers, including those who are transgender."
Former Justice Department official Vanita Gupta, currently president and CEO of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, slammed Trump's move as "yet another broken promise to the American people."
"President Trump doesn't understand that our military is stronger when there are no discriminatory barriers to service. The civil and human rights community will continue to loudly and proudly stand up for the rights of all who are willing to protect the security of our country, including the thousands of transgender people currently serving in our military."
And of course, there was pushback from a number of Democratic and Republican politicians alike.
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-California) commented on the sad irony of Trump's decision to increase discrimination on the 69th anniversary of President Truman's order to desegregate the military.
.@POTUS has shown his conduct is driven not by honor, decency, or national security, but by prejudice. https://t.co/PHTlXMhEJg http://pic.twitter.com/X9rYhn5Jic
— Nancy Pelosi (@NancyPelosi) July 26, 2017
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-New York) announced plans to introduce legislation that would overrule Trump's decision.
This morning, transgender service members put on uniform and showed up to their military duties...
— Kirsten Gillibrand (@SenGillibrand) July 26, 2017
This new decision is harmful and misguided. It weakens—not strengthens—our military. And I’ll do everything in my power to fight it.
— Kirsten Gillibrand (@SenGillibrand) July 26, 2017
Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-New York) highlighted the number of trans people serving in the military.
To @POTUS: Don't tell me #trans military service members who serve this country are any less courageous or deserving b/c of who they are. http://pic.twitter.com/XNQKKTnWw5
— (((Rep. Nadler))) (@RepJerryNadler) July 26, 2017
Rep. Illeana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Florida), who has a transgender son, spoke out against it as well.
No American, no matter their sexual orientation or gender identity, should be prohibited from honor + privilege of serving our nation #LGBT
— Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (@RosLehtinen) July 26, 2017
Rep. Joe Kennedy III (D-Massachusetts) offered to stand in solidarity with trans soldiers.
To the thousands of #trans men+women bravely serving our nation in uniform: Thank you. We do not take your patriotism for granted. https://t.co/bguuL4tx0f
— Rep. Joe Kennedy III (@RepJoeKennedy) July 26, 2017
Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) said "transgender people are people, and deserve the best we can do for them."
Senator Hatch's full comments on the issue of transgender Americans in the military. #utpol http://pic.twitter.com/EDS6JRXJaj
— Senator Hatch Office (@senorrinhatch) July 26, 2017
And Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-New York) called trans service members "patriots."
Transgender Americans are serving honorably in our military. We stand with these patriots.
— Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer) July 26, 2017
Trans people exist in the world and have every right to engage in the same activities and occupations as anybody else.
This is a big deal, and it's not just a distraction. Nobody should be discriminated against for who they are — not in the military, not in education, not in housing, not in employment, not in health care, not at all.
0 notes