#theyre the kind of ship that should never be canon and just be so heavily implied that it drives people insane. do you understand.

[camelspit]

idk sokeefe just feels like the kind of ship that should never go canon. like spirk. do you get it.

[foilfreak]

2/2. I also have my own headcannon about them and the whole band but most of the times his exaggerated both ways. Either he’s too bad or suddenly he’s so good it doesn’t even feel like him. Same with his relation with Noodle. It’s barely portrayed as a father/daughter, mostly from what I see is him being a total bastard to her which in my opinion isn’t true. Yes, he does repeat his own father mistakes, mostly on Stu, but I highly doubt he would abuse a child and let her think no one loves her

(Here’s part 1 of this ask for clarity: Please don’t be sorry for a long answer, I appreciate it so much, that you took your time and also because we are on the same page here! Him being flawed and not perfect doesn’t mean he was bad to her. He even admitted himself he thinks of her as a daughter. Also that part how he’s portrayed by fandom. I don’t like it also. I’m not a biggest fan of 2Doc because of how aggressive they show him and how stupid Stu is in them. There’s only one I read so far that’s good and I can’t remember the name.)

Ah thank you friend your words mean a lot and I love that there are people who actually want to talk to me about the stuff that I like and think is interesting and share some of my opinions!!! Yes exactly Murdoch’s flawed personality shouldnt inherently mean that he was a bad influence much less abusive to her as well. Yes there have been at least one or two instances where Murdoc flat out said that he saw Noodle as a daughter so for people to try and argue that it isn’t true is kind of pointless since, whether you agree with it or not, its stated directly in canon. Now of course its a little hipocritical of me to say things like “oh well its stated in canon therefor you should all just accept it”, especially considering the number of middle fingers ive shown to the canons of all different media throughout the years, but even without the canon statement there is concrete evidence showing that murdoc legitimately cares about noodle as a daughter even with his fucked up personality.

Ya i can’t say im a big fan of how he tends to be portrayed by the fandom either, and the worst part is that its not entirely because i think their characterization of him is 100% off from how he acts in canon, but rather they take what they see in canon and then rev it up to 11, but the main problem i have is that its still somewhat true to the source material because that’s how he’s portrayed in canon as well, especially when it comes to 2D. 2D has been Murdoc’s punching bag from the very beginning and while it was kind of funny in the beginning, as the phases went on and Murdoc continued treating 2D like absolute garbage, it became clear, especially by phase 3, that there was never going to be a happy, healthy friendship between the 2 of them. There are instances in which they seem to get along like best friends without issue, like the various interviews we see in phases 2 and 4, but then a music video will come out and Murdoc will be right back to beating up on 2D like nothing good every happened between them. 2D is a ship that i tentatively like, but it heavily depends on how Murdoc and 2D are portrayed and like you said I don’t enjoy when Murdoc is nothing but an abusive asshole and 2D is too stupid to realize what’s going on. I have read a few good 2D fics in the past where there’s a good mix between Murdoc having issuesTM but not being outright abusive to those around him and 2D being his usual kind of ditsy self but he was also a lot more perceptive than canon 2D is usually portrayed as being. it was nice and the plots were very interesting and it was a really unique but faithful take on how a healthy 2Doc relationship might come about. Its been quite a few years since i read these so i dont remember what theyre called and idk if they would still hold up today but I enjoyed them back when i first read them in 2015 is when i think it was.

A lot of people have their own personal headcanons as to how the band operates and that’s totally fine, im the same way, but i would be lying if i said that most people tended to portray the band (especially murdoc) in ways that I personally don’t agree with. It’s nice to read a fic or a comic where Murdoc is being nice and showing a bit more care and consideration than he normally does, and I do think he’s capable of showing those emotions when the situation calls for it, but some creators do take it a little far and after a while it stops feeling like Murdoc, or vice versa when they make him so bad that its just too much. Maybe a lot of people don’t see the father/daughter relationship between Murdoc and Noodle like we do, and that’s fine I mean people are free to interpret Gorillaz in any way they like, but it really does bring my gears when people get on here and say that Murdoc wasn’t good to Noodle when she was a kid even tho there’s literally no evidence in canon suggesting that Murdoc ever did or would directly hurt her in any way. Murdoc is a product of a really shitty and horrible childhood but like i said before that doesnt mean he is inherently going to treat Noodle, or any other child, in that same manner or make her feel as tho she isnt special or loved.

Again thanks for the ask, these are so much fun to answer and I hope you are having a wonderful holiday!!! 🥰

[sonreiv]

i absolutely despise when ppl paint katsuki as an abuser when horikoshi doesn't even say he's an abuser. Bullying and Abusing has some similar aspects but they are different at the end of it. Katsuki is. a. bully. Izuku recognizes that Katsuki is a jerk and what he did was wrong/bad (and he actually has stated that he hates katsuki, twice) but still sees his strong qualities that make him admire him

(This ask has been sitting in my drafts for the longest time and I thought with the upcoming episodes it was the perfect time to stop procrastinating and finally finish it. Sorry for the wait, nony! I mostly agree with you, but I want to further discuss some points so I hope you don’t mind I got a bit lenghty. You got me an excuse to ramble up some meta haha.)

A TL;DR beforehand: canon analysis supports that Katsuki should not be interpreted as an abuser, but an early bully at most. I also did a little analysis on the early middle school chapter and how it shows BNHA’s society/the peers Deku and Katsuki grew up around set up a bullying enticing enviroment, and how bad translations have us interpret their relationship as more aggravating than it really is - Deku NEVER said he hates Katsuki, for instance. Not once.

I agree that Katsuki is not to be interpreted as an abuser. He does not want to pursue Deku in order to hurt him; instead, he wants to push Deku away from himself. There’s a difference between “I want to possess you, to make you stay around me and hurt you emotionally and physically” - and “I don’t want anything to do with you, go away, don’t interact with me or else”. The first one is abuse. The second one is what Katsuki felt about Deku for most of his life (albeit very simplified). At the times when Katsuki did hurt him - threatening him in middle school, getting out of hand during the heroes vs villains team trial, punching him during the end of the term exam, etc - was because he felt threatened; so his response was to push him away with violence, with an attempt at “teaching” Deku to stay away from his lane.

This is not to defend Katsuki’s actions; this is only a reasoning, not an excuse. His violent behavior towards Deku is still inexcusable. I only want to make clear there’s a difference between “I want to go out of my way to hurt you” and “I will smack you if you push me”, even if his concept of being pushed is distorted to his own experience and it still does not make his violent actions okay. He fears and despises what Deku did at those times: talking to Katsuki as if Katsuki isn’t on the pedestal he grew up believing he was on. This is the core of Katsuki’s feelings. He does not want to abuse Deku. He wanted him to go away, and he WOULD physically/verbally assault him if that meant pushing Deku away from him. And the rest of his threats/aggressive banter is just really how he talks to everyone else.

Even in canon it’s explicitly stated Deku was the one who insisted on following him because of his admiration, and that was what Katsuki couldn’t stand; he wanted him to be away.

And that was way before. The game is changing, and the development of their relationship is one of the core points of the series. Katsuki recognized him as someone who is not allowed to lose, someone worthy of All Might’s trust, and just very slowly started talking to Deku like he does to everyone else.

I also believe that affirming Katsuki would be an abuser in a romantic relationship with Deku misses the point if the person is okay with it if it’s a friendship/platonic relationship, or if they ship Katsuki with other people. Someone who is abusive does not isolate their behavior to one single person, nor does abuse happen only in romantic relationships. Abusive friendships exist. If one thinks katsudeku is okay as long as it’s platonic, if they believe in their growth and healing enough to believe they can start and share a healthy friendship, then the same should be applied to a romantic relationship. Also if Katsuki were to be an abusive partner to Deku, he’d be the same to other partners. If he were to be emotionally manipulative, possessive, constantly putting him down and hurting him while also keeping him - he’d do it to any other partners. The thing is people who ship katsudeku usually don’t ship it hc'ing that Katsuki keeps his ill behavior towards Deku in the relationship - we cherish the character’s growth and development. The canon Katsuki, the Katsuki with the bad behavior in the older chapters, as stated above, didn’t even wish to keep Deku around as a peer, let alone to form some kind of deeper bond. The romantic katsudeku ship I personally want is the kind where Katsuki grows and changes (as it’s slowly happening in canon) enough past his insecurities towards Deku to be okay with approaching him like he does to other peers. No possessiveness, no emotional abuse, because I personally don’t see that coming from him.

Since we got to this point, something interesting and relevant that I don’t usually see being pointed out is that in the very beginning of the story, it wasn’t only Katsuki opposing to the idea Deku could enter UA while being quirkless. The entire class laughed at him, and the teacher didn’t bat an eye.

This is not to gloss over the fact Katsuki did show unexcusable behavior towards Deku, but I think the scene was set up that way to show it was not only Katsuki’s isolated behavior, but the system, BNHA’s society is shaped to mock and discourage individuals who believe they can become heroes or achieve certain things despite the conditions of their quirk(lesness). The way the society is shaped was Deku’s childhood bully. He was mocked by his peers as young as 4, while at the same time Katsuki was put in a pedestal because of his quirk - which led to his massive ego complex. We can’t analyse their personalities and relationship without taking in account the context they grew up in. Many people frame Katsuki as the single-handed culprit for Deku’s bullying background without taking this whole context into account, while also casting Deku the role of a submissive, persecuted victim when he deliberately chose to stick around Katsuki, and just generally shows to be a character with a lot more agency than that.

And what’s interesting in this scene is that Katsuki didn’t laugh along with everyone else when Deku says he wants to apply and he might have a chance. Because Katsuki takes that seriously. He takes that as a personal offence. The whole point of Katsuki’s ill feelings towards Deku were always that he

feels as Deku is mocking his efforts by believing that himself, a quirkless boy who didn’t do any kind of physical preparation for a heroics course - has chances of becoming a hero as much as Katsuki, who is a born genius AND presumably prepared himself to apply to UA, with training and studying, going as far as scolding his colleague for smoking because he wanted a clean student record.

he feels threatened by Deku because ever since they were kids, as much as Deku admired him, he also saw Katsuki as someone who was able to get hurt and could have a hand offered to like anyone else; Deku saw him as superior in terms of skill, but an equal as a human being, while all the other kids did not. And that made Katsuki not stand him. Because he’s scared of being anything less than the very best, he’s scared of being someone who can be offered help - in his eyes, someone who can be pitied and looked down onto.

And that’s why he reacts with hostility. He wants to intimidate Deku out of even trying to apply to UA. It’s even stated by Katsuki’s colleagues he got out of hand this time, implying it’s not normal behavior for Katsuki (and I’ve seen people saying it was confirmed by Horikoshi himself, though I don’t have sources so don’t quote me on that). Again, he will only seriously smack Deku down if he feels threatened. He does not go out of his way to put him down on a daily basis because he doesn’t want to interact with Deku to begin with.

Also, Deku actually never stated he hates Katsuki. Not once. What he actually says is closer to “he may be a jerk, but-”, which is how the official english translation translated it, as seen above (stole the picture from this post by @kiraelric because it’s where I found it faster :P). Here’s a post explaining it, and I quote @sugarmagic who gently broke down the first panel - which FA translated as “I hate his guts” - for me:

Basically the word 嫌う, the verb form is “to hate” but 嫌な奴 is “unlikable/disagreeable guy.” So what I’m pretty sure happened is that they didn’t realize な was modifying the word to be an adjective. It’s not describing Deku’s feelings, it’s describing Kacchan’s character. The reading of the kanji is written as “iyana yatsu,” versus “Kacchan ga kurai” which really would be “I hate Kacchan”. Then again, even if they read it that way, the furigana explicitly shows the reading, so I don’t even know what they were thinking.

 The translation group Fallen Angels takes way too much freedom and completely distorts some lines, and the dislike of Bakugou/his relationship with Deku in the western fandom was heavily influenced by interpreting it via FA’s aggravated translations. I had people who know japanese tell me how gratuitously innacurate the translations are - as an example, FA translates Deku thinking Katsuki is difficult to deal with as Deku thinking Katsuki causes him to be aware of his own flaws (source). The translations paint Bakugou’s character and his relationships, specially with Deku, unnecessarily harsher than they really are. In fact, something the localisation usually fails to translate is how Bakugou’s “die!” and similar threats are not be taken as seriously in japanese as one would in english - but rather pretty immature and petty (source).

So! If you read up to this point and you’re interested in reading other meta on Katsuki and Deku’s characters and relationship, you should check @explodo-smash’s meta tag. They’re a pretty smart team and can explain/analyse things better than me - in fact their meta helped me a lot understand better their dynamics post my bloody Fallen Angel readings. That’s all for today, and thank you for taking the time to read.