#they're literally mr darcy and elizabeth come ON

[vinicenkov]

kieran and mary-beth

[blush-and-books]

QUESTION how does darvey compare to ur other ships?? i feel like their shared body language and the way they convey HISTORY is so unique ahaha

this is actually a great question and i would absolutely love to know your own other ships vs darvey, bc darvey is so different from so many of my ships!!!

i will say that joyce x hopper from stranger things is probably the only ship i have that even comes close to having any similarities to donna and harvey because of that sense of shared history, partnership, and platonic support leading into romantic support. but for the rest of my ships, it's like so opposite.

one of my main ships that is one of my most tagged ships on my blog is Julie and Luke from the netflix series Julie and the Phantoms!!! this series devastatingly only got ONE SEASON but had a huge following on tumblr. compared to donna and harvey's nine seasons and canonical 13 years of buildup, that inherently makes the ships very different, because Julie and Luke do not become "canon" (although mutual romantic feelings are made pretty darn clear). Julie and Luke have history together in an offhanded way - Luke is a ghost, and when he was 17, he actually met a young Julie's mom before she had Julie, and then he died, got trapped in purgatory(?) for 25 yrs, and then was brought back into the world as a ghost where he met Julie (after her own mom had passed away). This has resulted in a LOT of theories regarding them being soulmates - their characters mirror each other so well to the point that the colors of their costuming is often matching or inverted to each others clothing. They both have an undying love for music, mommy issues, and they fit together like two peas in a pod. Literally there's only one season of buildup, and there are over 3,000 works of fanfiction for them on ao3. Julie and Luke truly couldn't be more different lmao, because a lot of the magic that comes from them is a sense of destiny, inevitability, and their instant ability to be vulnerable with each other. With Donna and Harvey, the romance comes from the steadfast partnership and daily choice they make every day to choose each other.

Another big ship of mine is Anne and Gilbert from Anne with an E (or the whole Anne of Green Gables book series lol, but them in the AWAE tv adaptation is so good)!! They have a good amount of buildup and a sense of choosing each other, but the stakes are nowhere near as high as they are in Suits. Gilbert is so down bad for Anne the whole time. He's so the perfect man that I have a framed photo of him in my home. The TV show introduces us to their plotlines and character arcs as parallel tracks as they are finding their way through life and eventually meeting at the same place, whereas Donna and Harvey are definitely just on their own crazy journeys until they crash into each other and are finally in a place to be together. However, a very silly parallel that Anne/Gilbert has with Donna/Harvey is there is a sequence of Person B running to Person A when they realize that they're meant to be together. And Person A is a redhead.

Other ships I have are like Nina and Fabian from House of Anubis, or Zuko and Katara from ATLA. Also Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennett from P&P. I think a lot of my ships involve the man blatantly worshipping the ground that the woman walks on and constantly being complimentary and admiring of her; where we get only crumbs of that kind of dynamic with Donna and Harvey. Harvey definitely thinks, and has stated as such, that Donna is the most amazing woman he's ever met, but because Donna and Harvey are not thee main plotline of the show or even arguably the main relationship (when compared to Mike and Rachel), there's a lot less room for there to be blatant moments where Harvey is like "wow she's amazing!!!" because he's just not that guy.

please also let me know your thoughts on this and what ships you have!!! do we share any?

also, my response to your domestic!Darvey ask is still unfortunately in the works. i just want you to know i did not forget about it!!! <3333

[taradactyls]

Trying to Tread Water: Chapter Sixteen

The Marriage of Convenience fic no one asked for

Elizabeth must stave off the impertinent questions of Kitty and Lydia the day following her wedding, and it seems half of Meryton has converged on her to pay their respects now she is Mrs Darcy. Everyone has opinions, Mr Wickham has requests, and Charlotte tries to keep a straight face as Elizabeth declares she now believes she and Mr Darcy are friends. Especially when an impromptu dance at Lucas Lodge hints at a great deal more than friendship between Mr Darcy and his new bride.

Read on Ao3 here

First reviews: "I love this story so much, it's mutual pining but they're married so they get to bypass so much of the awkward conversation restraints but still have enough in place that the oh my gosh I like him like him realisation hasn't hit Elizabeth yet and Darcy is just there doing the hand clench scene internally each chapter. Perfection." "You wrote the dance so well! The anticipation, the tension, and the growing chemistry between the two was palpable." "*soft chanting* kiss kiss fall in love already." "Thank you thank you thank you for this lovely installment of THEY'RE SO IN LOVE, YOUR HONOR" "Every chapter I exclaim at least five times to myself how well you've got the characterization down." "You’re the highlight of my weekends ... You’re being very generous sharing your beautiful writing and this amazing story I couldn’t thank you enough for it <3" "I adore this narrative, just as the original story it covers that excitement you feel when reading a new romance ... I’m like Lydia over here giggling." "I literally had to pause my reading to turn away from my scream and do a little silent scream." "I loved all of this."

Story updates fortnightly, with Chapter Seventeen coming out on the 3rd November.

Story tags: Elizabeth/Darcy, Marriage of Convenience, Unrequited Love, Not Really Unrequited Love, Slow Burn, Pining, Pining Despite Being Married, Mr Darcy thinks his worst enemy is Wickham but maybe it's himself.

[seeker-ophelia]

But wait there's more.

Forewarned,

#Long Post, and also a (bad) Literary Analysis by an Electrician.

Okay, I've been in angst for so long I re-watched a much of older Jane Austin moves on Netflix and... you guys... they're all solavellan.

Solas & Predjudice

A slew of miscommunications and “prejudices” cause a kerfuffle for the Bennet family. The main couple, Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy, eventually find love after throwing away their pride, and the prejudices they heard about the other from untrustworthy sources. All of the attraction between the two is conveyed without them touching, halted broken voices, the infamous “hand,” etc.

Austen is thought to have taken her title from a passage in Fanny Burney's Cecilia (1782), a novel she is known to have admired: "The whole of this unfortunate business," said Dr Lyster, "has been the result of PRIDE and PREJUDICE. ... if to PRIDE and PREJUDICE you owe your miseries, so wonderfully is good and evil balanced, that to PRIDE and PREJUDICE you will also owe their termination."

The American novelist Anna Quindlen observed in an introduction to an edition of Austen's novel in 1995: Pride and Prejudice is also about that thing that all great novels consider, the search for self. And it is the first great novel that teaches us this search is as surely undertaken in the drawing room making small talk  (hello, DragonAge Dialogue) as in the pursuit of a great white whale...

Next is Jane Eyre, in which the male Protag, Edward, might be the best comparison to Solas I can imagine.

Jane (well spoken, soft, witty, good, kind) falls in love with a loner but rich landowner (Edward). There is something fishy about him tho, we are led to believe there's something dangerous/off about him, if he is housing a demon/animal, or is in fact a demon himself. They attempt to marry, but the ceremony is stopped. Its discovered "the demon" is his wife, a mentally unstable woman who Edward married to save. He literally calls her “My own demon.” He wants to protect this deranged woman (out of duty? misplaced duty?) but loves Jane deeply. Jane runs away, makes a life for herself, feel guilt, then goes back to him to find his house burned, the woman dead, and Edward blind. They kiss, you assume happy ending.

Edward thought to protect Jane by NOT FUCKING TALKING TO HER Bro like come on what are you even... like you should have fucking told her. Gods damn it Solas Edward just use your outdoor voice and talk to the pretty lady.

They do end up together, but only after Edward has gone through great physical and emotional strife, pretty much of his own doing, I think we can all agree.

And I'd be remis to not talk about Persuasion, because the scene is set so perfectly for Veilguard.

In Persuasion, the book starts up several years after protag Anne breaks off her Engagement with Love Interest (TM) Captain Frederick Wentworth.

Once AGAIN, through NOT FUCKING TALKING TO EACH OTHER, they think the other has moved on, and they try not to intrude on the others life. But (in the movie), Wentworth writes her a beautiful confession letter, which I will put here with some *minor* modifications:

Dearest Inquisitor Levellan, I can listen no longer in silence. Vhenan, you pierce my soul. Dare not say that man forgets sooner than woman, that his love has an earlier death. I am half agony, half hope. I know too much time has passed, and you have moved on, but I will never forgive myself if I do not tell you this. You alone have brought me to heel. For you alone, I think and plan. But of course, you have not seen this, how could you? Because your love has not lasted as long as mine. Vhenan, I have loved no one but you and I don’t think I ever will. I have thought many times about how to tell you this. But the pain of a love unrequited (except for Soals it’s the pain of perceived duty/guilt) rendered me silent.  Tell me not that I am too late. My love for you has never faltered. Yours, eternal, Solas Fen’Harel What is even your real name just tell me cuz its NOT FUCKING WISDOM YOU DUMB EGG

Solas is so ANCIENT, and GDL voices him SO WELL, with that welsh-tinge, its so hard NOT to put this love story in with the romance classics. Especially with the main theme being JUST TALK TO EACH OTHER YOU FUCKING IDIOTS.

I am just hoping and praying and huffing that copium that we get a happy ending, and not a sad one.

Or even better, through our interactions with Solas' memories, that we get to choose.

remember recent posts about that scene?

it was mostly about a solavellan reunion

it suddenly hit me and unblocked a bonus fear: solavellan ending just like in the movie/book. like a bit melancholic yet happy ending in which love wins and future seems much brighter than before and... then you found out it isn't real, it's just a story told by someone else as a try to make things right for them and bring a happiness because they deserved it even if the reality was never kind to them.

Varric, a storyteller, if you will try to make this Atonement thing to me, I will find you and I will kill you.

Movie: "Atonement", 2007

Book: "Atonement", Ian McEwan, 2001

[nerdishfeels]

Jane Austen April Wrap Up! 🌸🍁

@mercy0121 @hklunethewriter @shadowtearling

So this month, I wanted to read The Invasion of the Tearling but unfortunately I didn't get enough time (I know, I am failing badly at buddy reading lol). However, I did finish two Jane Austen novels for uni, which were Pride and Prejudice and Persuasion. I thought it would be cool to review them here! Spoilers below!

Pride and Prejudice:

Rating- 5*

I have to admit, my uni is getting me more into classics, which i'm loving!

At first, I was a bit worried I would find it difficult to understand the archaic language in these books (although I had read Jane Eyre when I was younger and I enjoyed the writing and the victorian setting so I had high hopes of enjoying it). And I was pleasantly surprised when the words started to flow easily. I even got the gist of some words I didn't know.

I loved reading from Elizabeth's point of view. I found it really refreshing, having a heroine questioning the need for women to marry men purely for their fortune.

This was exactly what I wanted in a romantic book, to see the emotional connection between two people (I.e Elizabeth and Darcy) and how they make each other better.

I thought it was cute when Darcy would randomly walk with her, without saying a word 😉

I liked the range of relationships that were shown and how they contrasted with the main couple.

My favourite scene (excluding the romantic ones) had to be the one where Lady Catherine and Elizabeth have a dispute. I loved how Elizabeth countered everything Lady Catherine said and how sassy she was. For example, when she says that even though there isn't an official engagement between herself and Darcy, if Darcy did propose to her, she wouldn't refuse. Elizabeth literally shuts Lady Catherine down nicely.

There were times when not much happened, but those were very short moments.

I loved how close Elizabeth was with her sister, Jane and her father, Mr Bennet (like how he told Elizabeth he would never forgive her if she did marry Mr Collins 😂). I always love seeing sweet family dynamics in books.

Mr Collins is a pretentious jerk. That is all.

What I also liked is how it related to my culture, with the idea of arranged marriages. At the time of Orientalism, there's always been this notion that the west think they're superior and not "barbaric" like the east. But the funny thing is that the West and the east are very similar, especially in the sense of marrying men who are rich. Ironic, huh?

Persuasion:

Rating: 5*

I thoroughly enjoyed this book too!

I felt I could relate a lot to Anne as a character, with her being relied on to solve everyone's problems and her lack of self-esteem. It was really nice seeing her develop and grow more confident with her abilities and feelings.

Even though Anne rejected Wentworth first out of duty, I felt like it was because she knew how obsessed her family were with money and status so she thought if she let him build his status, he would be more favoured by her family (which does happen).

I liked Wentworth as a character. I understood how hurt he must have been when she rejected him. Even though he tried to ignore Anne, I was at least glad he wasn't mean to her in any way (obviously because he still loved her and he was kidding himself by acting otherwise 😂).

Again, I liked seeing different relationships, especially admiral Croft and his wife. It was sweet to see how close they were and how they travelled a lot.

Unlike pride and prejudice, I felt sad that her family practically ignored her. Her father was such a judgemental guy (I have never seen a guy so obsessed with appearances), Elizabeth was meh and Mary was very annoying (yeah, there were times when she was alright with Anne but come on, she isn't exactly the "best" sister. Even at the end, she was like, if Wentworth earns as much as her father, she would stop associating with Anne, like what??).

I enjoyed reading about the navy and how they earned prize money after the napoleon wars (pretty cool!).

I loved the scene when Wentworth gives Anne his letter ("I am half hope, half agony". How romantic is that??).

I felt like the novel just ended, you know? I wanted to read more!

I'm really glad I had a chance to read Jane Austen's novels! I'm definitely gonna check more of her works. Let me know what you think of these books. Which Jane Austen book should I read next? 😁

[blush-and-books]

Top 5 all-time favorite ships?

TEA!!!

Warning - this list is literally just the same m/f couple in different fonts. A lot of these were more formative and influential in my childhood or were from series that are from a couple years ago. I am naming these as my top five because of how insane I went over them/how hard I hyperfixated on them.

When I made this list I was disappointed to realize that there hasn't been a wlw couple from a series or movie that has influenced me this powerfully, but I hope to find it soon and if you have any recs lmk! :) Will also include honorable mentions!

1. Kirsten Clark and Cameron Goodkin, Stitchers (2015-2017)

This is tied with Julie and the Phantoms for one of my biggest hyperfixations ever. Kirsten and Cameron were a slowburn that was done really beautifully and nobody was doing it like them. I watched this show at a very pivotal developmental point in my life, and I think these two taught me a lot about the work that a relationship takes and the fact you have to be willing to put it in - they were a healthy relationship example for me at a time that it was necessary for me to see it. They have a lot of character development over 3 seasons but grow together in healthy ways, and the writers kind of bake it into the plot that they're meant to be lmao. They also are just a great example of loving someone for everything that they are. They definitely made me a little mentally ill but also inspired me to be a writer, so...

2. Julie Molina and Luke Patterson, Julie and the Phantoms (2020)

I don't know how long you have been following me anon, but if I've been on your dash at all in the past couple years, it was most definitely related to Julie and the Phantoms, and probably related to Julie and Luke. In one season, they had insane development and beautiful chemistry. The way their characters were written made them naturally fit together, and made me cry "soulmates!" quite often. I will forever mourn what they could have been, and be grateful for some of the most stellar works of fanfiction I've ever read that were produced in their name.

3. Anne Shirley Cuthbert and Gilbert Blythe, Anne With An E (2018-2020)

Technically they're from the whole Anne of Green Gables Universe but AWAE is one of my Shows Of All Time ™ lol so I'm crediting them to the show!!! Just everything about them..amazing. Definitely gave me unrealistic expectations for love tho bc who tf assaults a man and still bags him in the end!??? Anne. She's that bitch and I haven't reached that yet but I'm working towards it.

4. Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy, Pride & Prejudice (2005, dir. Joe Wright)

This is another one of those ships where I'm like if you've followed me long enough you could have seen this coming lol. These two are from the general Pride & Prejudice Universe, first created by the lovely Jane Austen, but P&P 2005 is by far my favorite movie of all time, and it is still breathtaking every time I watch it. Keira Knightley and Emmy Award Winner Matthew Macfadyen are really a perfect pair and their adaptations of the characters are so genuine and whole. Everything I do, I do for them.

5. Nina Martin and Fabian Rutter, House of Anubis (2011-2013)

My original Ship of All Time. Was very mentally ill over them. I rewatched this show last year and I expected to be like "oh god this is cringe how did young me like this so much" but instead I was like "oh god this is so well written how could anybody hate this show." Yes it has its silly moments but I could write essays on how well it was written. The foundation of trust between Nina and Fabian was more powerful than any "do you trust me?" YA teen fantasy movie moment of the 2000s. Fabian was the blueprint for every fictional crush I have had since.

HONORABLE MENTIONS:

Kaz Brekker and Inej Ghafa, Six of Crows Duology and Shadow & Bone TV series

Aziraphale and Crowley, Good Omens

Su-hyeok and Nam-Ra, All Of Us Are Dead

Joyce Byers and Jim Hopper, Stranger Things

Zoya Nazyalensky and Alina Starkov, Shadow & Bone Trilogy and TV series (yes I am a Zoyalina truther sorry)

Dan Humphrey and Blair Waldorf, Gossip Girl (will I receive hate for this one? to be determined)

Steve Harrington and Eddie Munson, Stranger Things

John B and Sarah Cameron, Outer Banks

Ethan and Sarah, My Babysitter's a Vampire

[iwouldservehim]

Caroline is literally a character aware Jane Austen is spinning some unrealistic fairytale bullshit for Jane and Lizzy.

She is angry not because she is desperate but because she knows she's got everything and that she can very well account for hopes to marry as high as Darcy. It may be very well that Darcy has appeared to give her hopes (maybe even considered it). They clearly get along at the start, he's amused by her flirting but not in a dismissive way. He has agreed to come for a long term stay in a house with an unmarried sister of high prospects. If he returns the favour and invites them to Pemberley and she's introduced to his only family, which when it comes to Lizzy later it's clear Darcy sees as very significant, things are going down just right. And clearly Caroline can already see the road ahead just like that.

But then the Bennet sisters appear, hanging by the thread of Mr Bennet's lifespan in their society, with limited prospects and even lacking in education (even Jane and Lizzy in that quarter). And of course Charles is just a fool and falling for a mere pretty girl is so typical of him, and she can handle it.

But what the fuck is up with Elizabeth? She is not even TOO beautiful, and Darcy is no fool like Charles about that stuff anyway. She excels in nothing. She has nothing but her wit to recommend her, and in regards to Darcy she sometimes uses it in a rude manner with him particularly. And so can someone break the fourth wall of this Jane Austen novel that thinks it's so neat?

But they leave and she's probably just like "woof, what even was THAT?" Life goes on as it SHOULD'VE. They spend time in London with Darcy. They're on the same wavelength again, probably gossipping about Jane being in town and assuring eachother about it being dismissed. (Darcy says he knew she was in town, but Jane only communicates with Caroline and they don't frequent the same part of town). And all continues as planned. They get invited to Pemberley. (And, again, Darcy is showing the Bingleys too high preference, giving them so much of his time).

And then Lizzy shows up at Pemberley, and she actually understands it's the end somehow. And it's dumb. How would this even happen?

To continue about Caroline Bingley's marriage prospects, many people tell me that no one would want her with that terrible disposition. Now I have a few things to say about that.

Firstly, we see Caroline at her worst in Pride & Prejudice, she is jealous of Elizabeth and angry that she lost Darcy to such a woman. However, when Caroline tries to be charming, she is, even Elizabeth finds her agreeable occasionally at Netherfield.

Secondly, Darcy likes Caroline's behaviour, that is why she does it. Jane Austen actually puts a lot of his thoughts in her mouth. We know Darcy is worried about the inferiority of Elizabeth's connections, Caroline quips that he can put a portrait of Mr. Phillips (the low class type of lawyer) beside his great uncle the judge. These are likely Darcy's own thoughts. And before he fell for Elizabeth, Darcy was happily insulting her and the whole family with Caroline (and Louisa). Caroline is basically a mirror for what Darcy thinks which seems to be what some men like (I assume).

But here is the more important point, some men want a woman like Caroline, someone ambitious. Marriage is a partnership and in many ways a financial/business one. For example, Thomas Palmer from Sense & Sensibility wants to be elected to parliament, Caroline Bingley would be all over that. She would schmooze her way across society all you wanted. Mr. Elliot from Persuasion went for wealth over ambition, but as a young barrister a wife like Caroline probably could have greatly helped his career since their money all came from referrals and connections.

Lucy Steele and Mary Crawford may not have been suited to their possible clergyman husbands, but would they have made them bishops if Edward and Edmund wanted that even slightly? I would bet real money on it. Mr. Collins is ambitious and he got the best wife he could have asked for. Charlotte is clearly on the campaign for his prospects, even going so far as to hope Darcy does like Elizabeth because he has patronage in the church.

Here is Lucy in full ambition mode by the way:

As for Colonel Brandon, she was not only ready to worship him as a saint, but was moreover truly anxious that he should be treated as one in all worldly concerns; anxious that his tithes should be raised to the utmost; and secretly resolved to avail herself, at Delaford, as far as she possibly could, of his servants, his carriage, his cows, and his poultry.

Robert Ferrars may occasionally fight with his wife, but I'm sure he loves that Lucy's wheedled her way into mommy's heart. They are both trying to get the biggest slice of inheritance possible and for a man like that, Elinor Dashwood or Fanny Price would be perfectly useless.

So I am sure Caroline would be a desirable asset to someone who is not an Austen hero, because building connections, charming the right people, and understanding how to acquire more wealth is not what Jane Austen's men (and women) are into, but the wider world certainly was.

[taradactyls]

Thank you so much for finding and sharing that resource! Such a good read. I actually used a lot of his stats and research when talking other times about how Mr Bennet failed his family and making my estimates, but it was from remembering Hume from studying Austen at uni and getting the information again from essays which reference the work, rather than having access to the original. I'm glad I get it to save it to my essay folder now! Anything about finances in Pride and Prejudice or the reality of Elizabeth's financial situation is a favourite topic of mine - to no one's surprise. I mean, this post is an author's note of a fic where I literally use the sudden risk of Mr Bennet dying just after the Netherfield Ball, and the financial implications, as the justification for the premise, haha. I'm always happy to read more research about it.

This post is actually second in a bit of a series I occasionally do about finances in Pride and Prejudice in the author's notes. I'm not making any claims to being particularly academic and it's certainly not equal to peer-reviewed essays, I'm just helping to give context about the financial aspects that modern readers don't necessarily understand the same way contemporary readers would have. Also, I just enjoy applying maths to the amounts they could be saving and see what we end up with. The first part here was actually begun by a throw away comment about how much the Bennets would need to have saved to give the girls £10,000 a piece and then delves into what would be suitable dowries for their position, and how much money they would have if their parents had annually saved ��450, £200, £100, or even only the interest of the £5,000 settlement. It mentions they're in the top 1% and slightly touches on Mr Bennet's personal culpability towards not providing for his family. (Small note for anyone who's new to my maths: I assume Jane Austen always listed the profits of estate incomes, not simply revenue. The only amount I believe we have clarity for in any of her book's is Darcy's £10,000/y, which, as Wickham calls it 'clear' means that's the amount remaining after all expenses necessary for the maintenance of the estate.)

The 40% of income put into savings (though I suppose the half that is meant for emergencies could be a similar amount to what the Bennets were spending on that purpose, just without explicitly saving for it) that Trusler recommends is new to me, as is some of the others referenced. Even Hume's recommendation of 20% is more than I expected. I've been treating 10% as the recommended (which, with reinvesting Mrs Bennet's settlement, in the 4%s comes to £19,647 total for her and the girls at the start of the novel), based on the 1823 'A New System of Practical Domestic Economy'. A blog post which sums up the relevant bits for Austen fans is here and I very much recommend checking it out. The book isn't a perfect contemporary, but it's certainly close enough to be useful and comparative to others Hume references. I love seeing the variety of different opinions on respectable savings, and how similar it is to the variation of advice we receive today. Humans are humans and will always have different opinions.

Luckily, I don't have to determine which is the most realistic for the Bennets income or respectable in the eyes of society, I just get to do more MATHS!

Assuming Hume's (and Trusler's, if we exclude the half of his 40% which is meant for emergencies) 20% of the income saved, over 23 years in the 4%s, we get:

£19,647 if none of the interest from Mrs Bennet's settlement is saved. Making the girls FOUR times richer than they are in canon and equivalent to what their mother had as a dowry.

£21,112 if 20% of the interest from Mrs Bennet's settlement is saved.

£26,971 if all of the interest from Mrs Bennet's settlement is saved. That means, given a few more years, it wouldn't have been hard for Mr Bennet to give his daughters £6,000 EACH. Which would be in line with what Pride and Prejudice implies are good dowries for their father's income and quite likely been enough to stop anyone from having serious financial doubts about marrying them.

If we do Trusler's 40% and presume, through some impossibly good luck we're indulging the existence of purely for funsies, the 20% saved for emergencies was never needed and so contributes to the girls dowries, using those same stipulations, we have:

£29,294, or about £6,000 for each girl if their parents die at the start of the novel.

£32,224.

£41, 618, or over £8,000 each at the start of the novel, a staggering amount compared to the meagre £1,000 they're going to get in canon.

Of course, those last three amounts would never happen. But interesting to see that, with Trusler's view on economical savings, an amount somewhere between the first three and last three is possible if the emergency fund always had something left over at the end of the year. (Though, I imagine Mrs Bennet would soon, if she doesn't already, grow to consider a lack of new gowns and cushions an emergency).

Also, I'm so sorry, Skarabrae, since I want everyone to see this link your reply is being used as the base for me adding extra information for everyone and answering some things I saw pop up in the notes. No good deed goes unpunished.

Not that it really matters for the calculation of taxes, but as a point of interest, Jane's age at the start of the novel is more likely to be 22 than 23 as we know from the first chapter that her parents have been married for no more than 23 years. Late 21/early 22 actually seems to match best with the age differences between the others, since we know Elizabeth (who mentions being 20 in March 1812) and Lydia (who turned 16 in June 1812) are between five-years-and-two-months to four-years-and-three-months apart in age and there's two sisters born within that period. Setting the gaps between their births at an average of 20 months or 17 months. Of course, some births might be closer than others (it might help explain why Mary is the odd one out if she's not born so close to the others, and why Lydia so easily takes charge of Kitty if their age gap is smaller) and there could be a stillbirth or miscarriage in between Jane and Elizabeth. But, given their closeness and Bingley's own age of 22 when he heard of Netherfield, I think it's safe to assume Jane begins the novel at 21 or 22.

How much Pride and Prejudice was revised and when we should set it is an interesting question we'll never have a perfect answer for. For the purposes of my fic I set it in 1811/1812 as I think Austen's revisions means she wanted it to be contemporary upon publication, but she definitely didn't update everything to be modern. Lots of minor things, like the 'nature and freedom aren't good for children' side of the educational debate that Caroline Bingley exemplifies, and positions of the militia, are all very mid 1790s. Whether character incomes were adjusted or left at their 1796/7 amounts changes an awful lot about the exact details, as you pointed out. As an additional source to the Hume essay: an Ellie Dashwood video essay I shared in another post says that, due to inflation from 1795 to 1815, prices earned from agriculture and land rents went up an average of 90%, but expenses of goods and services only went up 25-33%, so (excluding tax changes) land owners increased their income despite all the fluctuations. If Darcy's income after expenses wasn't adjusted from 1796/7 we might expect it to actually be about £16,000/y by 1812, for instance.

(To answer someone else, that's also why Mr Bennet wouldn't have to be a careful landlord to have kept his income steady or even increasing. I don't touch on the estate aspects of the finances deeply because that's a weaker spot in my historical knowledge and the text isn't definitive on his level of involvement. He isn't mentioned to be as involved as Austen's heroes tend to be, and we don't see anything praise worthy, but that doesn't mean he was negligent. He probably fell around the middle. Given his general lack of financial care and lackluster execution of his responsibilities I think it's fair to say Mr Bennet only ever did enough to keep the estate running as it always had been, but his love of independence and desire to avoid Mrs Bennet's complaints make it less likely he would allow it to go backwards. As with most other things in the book, it appears what he did stir himself to do was mediocre, and it's what he could avoid doing that caused the worst problems. Ultimately, his estate management may never have been a problem we considered if he was sensible enough with finances in general to have saved enough for his daughters. One could be good with saving but bad with knowing how to improve an estate, and vice versa, after all.)

Of course if Jane Austen knew about the level of inflation, or felt the taxes imposed since writing the first draft changed anything drastic, she would've adjusted the incomes to be what we see on the page during her revisions. So when considering finances it's logical to presume the numbers are accurate to 1811/1812. If she didn't alter anything we must assume she didn't feel like it changed the story much - but perhaps she was not so focused on how grand incomes were affected by inflation and taxes in so detailed a way as she was small expenditures in her daily life. She certainly never mentioned incomes fluctuating to a large degree, whether through inflation, taxes, unpaid arrears, or otherwise; let alone depicted it as a huge concern.

Which does mean we also have to wonder - as fun as applying reality and calculating exact numbers is - we're still attempting to fit fiction into a purely historical context. It's a difficulty no one seems to discuss in their essays and break-downs of the finances. Jane Austen was still writing a creative work within the limitations of her own knowledge on the subject and what she wanted to include for narrative purposes. So, whilst from a purely historical perspective, we might doubt the true amounts and reliability of the incomes Austen and her characters mention; from a fictional point of view, in the world she created, these amounts and the trust she places in their continuation are canon. How realistic vs simplistic she felt she was being with the larger sums we'll never quite know, though her avoidance of specified landed incomes in her later works might indicate she understood better as she grew older that great fluctuations could occur year to year. Which, in turn, would mean she later came to feel the amounts in the earlier works aren't perfectly realistic (though, again, if she felt it too unrealistic she would've altered them when she revised Pride and Prejudice). She knew of financial hardships and management herself, but on a far small scale to the incomes we're discussing here. The finer details of estates, taxes, and the changes to inflation might not have been her forte; and even if it was, she may have consciously chosen to ignore it in favour of creating the world and ending she desired for the story she was telling.

Would Jane Austen say all her main characters have had steady incomes for the rest of their lives, despite the cuts to interest and rising inflation and changing taxes, and always have had their money invested in banks that didn't collapse? Given financial stability is certainly part of all her happily ever afters, I lean towards yes. Which means we must accept a level of authorial voice over-ruling the real-world in favour of the fictional. Which is why I tend to treat the incomes and fortunes she gives us as more stable than they would be in real life. I'm not claiming that as the superior position to take, but I had to make a decision when writing fic and doing fun maths and sometimes I need to explain my stance. It's still fascinating to see both the bleaker and more optimistic analyses of others based primarily on contemporary economical research.

Some other things I saw people mention in reblogs and tags hypothesising about where the Bennets spend/spent their money:

Servants: The number of servants (personally, the most convincing research I've read makes the case for 8 interior servants - gardeners and the like is harder to quantify) is higher than it needed to be, but not unusual for their class and the estate's wealth. They would only really be able to save £20-50/y if they cut back on one or two servants and that would be the lower limit of what they could maintain the house/grounds and respectability with. In conjunction with other economies it could certainly help, but alone makes little difference.

The sharing of horses between carriage and fields: I know it was mentioned as a potential mismanagement, but I actually count it as a good use of economy. The problem isn't that they save money on keeping fewer horses (which were very expensive) but that the horses seem to not be prioritised for the farm as often often as they should been. The Bennets are actually living the situation that Anne Elliot of Persuasion wanted her father (whose extravagance meant he insisted on keeping two pairs of horses despite everything) to do in order to repay his dept. Interestingly, this could be evidence of an area where Mr and Mrs Bennet did cut back funds... perhaps they once had a pair of horses specifically for the carriage and were obliged to sell them to supply some of that 'five daughters out at once' money.

The décor of Longbourn: This doesn't have direct support in canon, but drawing from Mrs Bennet's love of fine things, lack of economy, and focus on comparing with her neighbours, it's a sensible guess. It would be a standard undertaking when the squire married for the wife to make her adjustments to the home, but I can completely believe that the initial expenses were disproportionately large. Alterations and additions probably also occur more frequently and expensively than necessary - whenever Mrs Bennet desired a change, or her neighbours did something she had to equal, I imagine.

Trips to London and more hosting: Specifically earlier on in their marriage. Both these ideas are purely speculative, but hosting more often back then (though they don't skimp on dinners now, either) is something I feel plausible enough that I included a mention to it in my fic. As to London trips, though there's no evidence in the text, I can imagine that's an experience Mrs Bennet would've wanted to have, and Mr Bennet young and in love enough to agree to. We can even headcanon that perhaps some of Mr Bennet's dislike of town is partially the result of going there with Mrs Bennet, and that being where their differences first became impossible to ignore. It would be so much easier for him to gain true knowledge of her character when seeing how she interacted with wider society, likely couldn't converse sensibly with his friends, and Jane Austen does use big meeting places like London to exacerbate characters' focus on finery and foolishness. Good musing for fanfic, and certainly fits into their early habits of expenditure, but I wouldn't try to defend it critically.

Mr Bennet's library: Actually this deserves a proper breakdown, because the way readers of Austen view this is interesting.

Now, I absolutely feel Mr Bennet has a good library that he's spent a lot of money on; I use it in my fic and mention it in the first post as something that could've been driving their expenses up. But it isn't actually canon. Though a very fair supposition that I also hold, we have little indisputable evidence for it and it's solidly in the realm of non-contested fanon. Since I've seen the idea pop up quite often that we 'know' Mr Bennet has a large library and orders new books, I thought I might list the facts we actually do have for everyone...

We know Mr Bennet 'was fond of the country and of books,' that 'with a book he was regardless of time,' and see him reading twice. But it's always possible he's rereading what he already owns and utilising circulating libraries (as we know his daughters do). Not once in Pride and Prejudice is the number of books he owns, or whether he orders at all, mentioned. For an idea of what he owns, we know he has a collection with multiple folios, and we can presume books on history and at least some poetry, theology/philosophy/morality (it was a heavy overlap at the time), and natural science since the girls 'were always encouraged to read' as part of their education and Mary moralises about books most likely from his library. But a collection is still not a distinct size, and everything else is pretty standard for what must be a library of many generations’ work, and doesn't definitively say how much Mr Bennet himself added to it. Readers – myself included – conjecture the rest based on the family's poor spending habits and Mr Bennet's enjoyment of books and the room itself.

Though, even the latter: he spends a lot of time in his library, but in this era, for his class, the library was simply a room a house the size of Longbourn would be expected to have, and almost a masculine equivalent of the drawing room. Looking through floor plans of fashionable London townhouses of the era shows that almost every layout has a room titled library on the ground floor (in my experience almost universally facing the road and to the right of the front door), even though certainly not every occupant would be a reader or have enough books to warrant it. It was less solely a library and more multi-purpose. The room is more what we would think of today as a study and receiving room: we see Mr Bennet reading and answering letters there, sitting with Mr Bingley when he calls and Mr Collins when he visits, and using it as a place to retreat to 'leisure and tranquillity' (note, he does not specifically mention reading or books) away from his boisterous family. And one of the two times we do see him reading (after the Meryton Assembly) it's possible he wasn't even in the library but a more public room, given how the ladies join him to chat, further showing we shouldn't interpret a library as only a room to read in.

All that to say: I agree Mr Bennet has spent a lot of money on his library, but it’s an interpretation of the facts, not itself a canon fact.

We actually have surprisingly little canon facts about where all the Bennet money went, and continues to go. Which only makes it easier for modern readers to interpret the Bennets as financially-strained and barely clinging to gentility, when in reality they're a spendthrift 1% family living in luxury as long as Mr Bennet lives. We don't automatically see the hints of money mismanagement and understand what fiscal responsibilities the parents (particularly Mr Bennet) failed that the contemporary audience would see. So instead, when we hear the words of Mrs Bennet, see the stress of some of the girls, and how other characters view their small dowries, it's easy for us to mistake them as poor without any ability to have ever been otherwise. Jane Austen didn't talk about the causes explicitly, but her original audience wouldn't have needed it in order to understand that this was preventable, and a duty Mr and Mrs Bennet should've taken seriously from the start.

The full Bennet Family Finances endnote from Ch33

I’ve been doing some more maths (ch26 has the initial discussion) on the savings that our characters might do/should’ve done since it’s fascinating to me and some of the comments I’ve been getting have been making me think more about it. One of the common themes is surprise at just how negligent the Bennets were at saving, instead of merely being stretched thin by expenses. I understand this completely, as it isn’t something that’s explicit in an easily recognisable way for modern audiences.

So, where could they have been more economical? They don’t go to London, no one has a gambling addiction, all travelling (which was EXPENSIVE) is done cost effectively, and they certainly didn’t spend all the money on tutors and the like for their daughters. I’m sure there’s actual academic papers by historians on this (I miss my uni access to those so much) but I can take some educated guesses.

We know Mrs Bennet is just bad with household management. Part of which might mean ordering too much food (it’s mentioned she keeps a good table, so this is as close to canon as we can get) and perhaps not being efficient with what she does order, ie wanting different meats from night to night, instead of having the leftovers served as stews or whatnot, not keeping an eye on the prices of sugar, salt, etc to buy when they’re cheap, making special orders instead of purchasing what’s readily available, etc. We know none of the Bennet women assist in the kitchen (as the Lucases do) so that’s more work for servants and thus likely to contribute to the need of an extra servant or higher wages. Household management could also be more innocuous things like always buying the expensive bees-wax candles, instead of using tallow when guests aren’t around or in out-of-the-way rooms. And being inefficient with candle usage (this is likely a Mr Bennet flaw too, if he enjoys reading in his library at night) in order to have a room better lit than strictly necessary. There was a reason families all tended to gather in one room after dark, and the Bennets notably don’t. Also having fires in all the principal rooms instead of just the ones likely to be used that day. If there’s ways to be inefficient with funds when it comes to cleaning, I’m sure they found a way there, too. Basically, anything that requires forward planning to help with economy would be lacking.

 But that’s all ‘essentials’ just done inefficiently, what luxuries might they have had? They have the income to warrant their carriage, horses, and it seems Mr Bennet does hunt, but that’s also a standard expense for his wealth, so let’s focus on what might be pushing them to their limits. Other than the over-provisioned dining table, which we’ve mentioned, nothing about their socialising habits seems excessive. Mrs Bennet’s love of fashion could be pushing her wardrobe bill up, Mr Bennet’s love of books could be a VERY expensive hobby, and of course – five daughters out at once. Having five daughters out (especially unnecessarily as Lydia and even Kitty were quite young to be out) cost a LOT of money. Lady Catherine was rude as anything, but her surprise at the fact was warranted. Other than money, it also meant the daughters were in direct ‘competition’ for the same limited amount of suitors, which theoretically might hurt the elder girls’ chances. Five distinct wardrobes for young women which needed gowns for all occasions, going through dance shoes and gloves very quickly, bonnets, etc, all added up. At the start of the book multiple hundreds of pounds a year would be going to keeping their daughters looking the part while mixing in society.

But Jane’s only twenty-one or twenty-two at the start of the novel, and came out at fifteen at the earliest. Yet the Bennets still never saved money, and never overspent their income, so there were other expenses they were able to drop which had been preventing them from saving money for the first sixteen or so years of their marriage. I think it’s fair to assume there’s random, one-time bigger expenses that were undertaken with any substantial spare money: perhaps the hermitage Mrs Bennet mentions is a newer addition, was the coach (which are normally ordered around the start of a marriage) refitted more recently, how often is the décor of Longbourn updated (and on that note, are things like the sofa reupholstered or completely replaced), do they impulse buy vases and sculptures, make sure whatever alcohol they do buy (which appears to be a reasonable amount for their class) is the expensive stuff, etc. Whatever it is, it’s a both parent problem. Mrs Bennet is bad at money management and instead of changing her habits or preparing her daughters for financial hardship puts pressure on them to marry (preferably rich, but she doesn’t seem to have a complaint about Wickham in that regard). Mr Bennet is smart enough to see that there is a problem and how to fix it, but after his first idea fails (have a son to break the entail and thus provide for his widow and other children – which doesn’t even necessarily mean the girls would get a dowry, just that they would never live in poverty) does nothing to reassess the issue or find a solution. He essentially shrugs his shoulders and lets his daughters shift for themselves. One parent is too stressed about money and only addresses it negatively, and the other isn’t stressed enough and doesn’t address it seriously at all. Neither do anything productive, even though changing their habits would be enough to fix it. I love them, but MASSIVE parenting failure on their end; and hinted to occur because the parents were too used to comforts and different themselves to be able to work together and act on a solution.

Now for some actual MATHS! Which, yes, I realise I am strangely excited about.

The idea that most of the Bennets’ money is spent by having so many daughters out at once seems to keep popping up in my time on the internet. So, I thought it would be interesting to see what their dowries could be if that five-daughters-out-at-once money wasn’t spent on other things before any daughters were out. Costs of this could vary a bit between families, and though we know Lydia’s expenses were almost £100 per annum that includes board and food as well as little gifts from Mrs Bennet, so we can’t simply multiply that by five and be done with it. But, given Mrs Bennet’s desire for fashion and the poor financial management we see from her and some of her daughters, it’s quite possible clothes were being bought new rather than pulled apart and remade more than they ought to be, so spending £50 to £60 a year on each daughter being ‘out’ seems reasonable. For the purposes of this, let’s look at a total of £250 and £300 a year for all five, and in the 4%s because that’s where the money settled on Mrs Bennet apparently is. After sixteen years of marriage (when we will assume Jane comes out) that’s £5,456 or £6,547. Meaning that just doubled their dowry, even if they save nothing else after that. If the interest is left alone, that’s more than £1,000 that’s added to it before the novel even begins. Suddenly Mr Bennet dying at the start of the novel would leave his widow and daughters with between £11,500-£13,000 instead of the meagre £5,000 they actually have.

And the girls didn’t all come out at once, so just to put some numbers to it for math purposes, let’s say Elizabeth came out one year after Jane, Mary two years after her, Kitty another two years later, and Lydia the following year. For simplicity, each girl coming out is going to remove the same amount of money (when realistically it’s likely Jane, who needs everything new, and Lydia, who’s spoilt, would have cost the most). With the lower estimates of expenses, that’s £8,062 saved at the time of the novel, taking the total for Mrs Bennet and the girls to £13,602 or £2,612 each, assuming nothing else is saved. At the higher cost for the girls being out, that’s £9,676 saved and £14,676 that they’ll eventually inherit a share of. Still below what they should have as dowries, but a vast improvement, and proof of why having five daughters out at once was an additional strain but not THE strain. It was just another element in a mountain of problems.

“But what if it was in the 5%s?” asks no one but me. I think they would stick to the more stable bonds Mrs Bennet’s dowry is in, but if they didn’t, the same situation as above would save £9,243 (or £14,243 total) or £11,090 (£16,090 to share or £3,218 each).

For pure funsies, the numbers if Mr and Mrs Bennet had also saved the interest of the £5,000 settled upon her (which by itself would grow to £12,324 in the 4%s) in addition to these savings are:

£20,387 (£4,077 each at the start of the novel) with the £250 expenses estimate. At £300 for all five daughters out, we get to £21,998. Both of these numbers suddenly mean the Miss Bennets would never have to fear poverty when Mr Bennet died and they would individually each be as rich as their mother was, and though they wouldn’t be counted as rich themselves, would at least have something respectable. They might not cost their husbands money to marry.

AND THEN if everything is in the 5%s but that original £5,000, and the interest it gains is also moved to the higher interest account, the grand total would be either £22,528, again assuming the £250 expenses, and £24,376 at the £300 estimate.

I’ve been doing some equations for Darcy, too. So, let’s talk about that next chapter, to give me time to really figure it out.