#they might have him do something out of character in btsv to make people like him less?

[fiepige]

I know it's irrational but still!

[basim-ibnishaq]

I’m seeing a lot of discourse about Miguel being out of character compared to his comic self. I kinda disagree because I think Miguel is going through a character regression. In the comics, Miguel started off (in Xina’s words) “an arrogant pompous jerk” who relied on an authoritarian system (Alchemax) to achieve stability, something he never had in his past. In a way, Miguel retreads similar ground in ATSV where he comes off as an antagonistic force (a jerk :P) who relies on an authoritarian system (the Spider Society) to maintain stability for the Spiderverse after being traumatized by the destabilization of his alternate dimension. I think the creative team is implicitly tying this aspect of Miguel’s origins into his film arc while placing it in a new context to better fit the Spiderverse trilogy and introduce new audiences to his story.

I think the reason why Miguel is retreading this aspect in the film is because he’s trying to hide his true comics origins. Despite Miguel’s first intro showing a near replica of his first comic issue (creating the assumption that he’s going to tell his comic origins like the other Spiderpeople thus far), he instead states that he’s the leader of the Spider Society (essentially making up his own origin story where he’s framed as the “ultimate” Spiderman). One reason why he might be hiding his true origins is that it might delegitimize his position as head of the Spider Society, since the majority of Spiderpeople get bit by a spider. Another reason could be that he views his origins and the implications of his transformation being too traumatic to disclose (something Miguel in the comics does as he hides the abuse he faces from Conchata). With both of these reasons, Miguel uses his high position at the Spider Society to create a fresh start where he’d only be seen as Spiderman. This way he doesn’t have to deal with the trauma of his past nor the lack of closure he has regarding his relationships with Gabriel and Xina (considering the ending of the 90’s comics).

However, Miguel ignoring his true past ends up becoming his folly in ATSV. While becoming Spiderman was the catalyst for Miguel’s growth in the comics, Spiderman becomes the facilitator for his regression in the film as he delves into the responsibility and guilt aspect of this persona. By trying to shed his civilian self and donning his Spidey persona full time, he forgets the true essence of Spiderman (which is to always try to save people) and the progress he made in the comics as he’s now boiled down to his fatal flaws: rage, guilt, and self-hatred. Plus, since the Spiderverse films are “a meta-commentary on art while still being art,” Miguel not mentioning his backstory and him constantly going in and out of different dimensions could be a comment on how modern iterations of his comics don’t take place in his home (dimension) of 2099 or feature his full cast.

I feel like Miguel’s true self would emerge once his real comic origins and story are revealed in BTSV, which includes the loss of his interpersonal relationships in his home dimension. By being truthful to himself and others, Miguel would be able to merge his Miguel and Spiderman persona together instead of viewing them two separate entities (something he struggled with in the comics). This could even lead to reconciliation between him and the Spider Squad as the other Spiderpeople (ie. Peter B, Gwen, Miles) experienced the same issue in the trilogy. Overall, I think BTSV will truly do Miguel justice by allowing his backstory to be told, affirming him as both Miguel and Spiderman, and by going back to his home dimension to show that his issues can be fixed ( hopefully seeing Gabriel and Xina). Hopefully after BTSV, it will inspire creatives to continue/reboot Miguel’s story from the 90’s and have it be set in 2099 with his full cast in the future.

(I’m sorry this is so long! It’s just SV Miguel isn’t really popular in the sm2099 comic fandom rn, but I can’t help but draw this connection and believe this is Miguel’s direction in the trilogy. Hopefully, you can share your thoughts on this, but I really just need to get this idea out there, privately. Thank you for reading all of this though!)

hey! this is an interesting read and i'm glad you shared it with me, i can see what you're saying and agree with elements of it but personally (and this is purely my opinion) i'm not sure i'm seeing all of it the same way as you

firstly, i do think it's a bit too harsh to describe the spider society as authoritarian - there are thousands of spideys in the society who all belive in miguel and what he's set out to do, he's not forced them to be there and demanded they do everything he says, and in the movie we only see a couple of events out who knows how many they've dealt with overall - and we can gather from the reactions of others that this is the first time miguel's reacted like this. miguel is their leader but he's not an authoritarian leader, he doesn't demand absolutely obedience in fact we know from dialogue that he's discussed how to handle miles with a few of them at least and he tries to explain everything to miles to give him all the information about what's going on, he doesn't just lock him up straight away and refuse to divulge any information, so he leads them yes but being a leader doesn't make you authoritarian, if he was not one of those spider characters would have joined him because they wouldn't trust him?

i'm also not sure he's ever tried to frame himself as the ultimate spiderman, he says he leads an elite strike force which is true? miguel is a man who can be very self assured yes but this is normally in the context of his work, not acting like he actually believes he's the greatest man to ever walk the planet and i don't think he'd ever do that as spiderman either - to have him act like he's the ultimate spiderman is so ooc for how miguel faces being spiderman, he thinks he has to do this because of what happened to him and he still doesn't think doing so makes him a good person let alone better than everyone else who is also has a spiderperson - i don't think he's even framing leading the spider society as his origin i think he just considers that to be all anyone needs to know about him because his origin is so traumatic to him that it's too personal for him to be sharing with gwen (and therefore the audience) right off the bat. he's painfully open about the elements of himself that are relevant for people in the society to know, namely him going to the other universe and its subsequent destruction, and therfore why he believes the things he does about canon events etc. i do agree with you that he's probably keeping his origin completely to himself because it's traumatic, because this way he can be viewed as the person he chooses to be not what other people in his past have made him to be.

honestly i don't think miguel has forgotten the essence of being spiderman and trying to save everyone, he has every reason to believe that letting canon events play out will save more people in the long run by preventing the destruction of entire universes, he is trying to save people, that's his entire goal with the spider society - to preserve the multiverse and prevent complete destruction and the loss of billions and billions of lives - whether the canon theory is 100% accurate we don't know yet but i don't think it's fair or accurate to suggest that miguel isn't trying to save people because he so clearly is, he's just doing it by letting events play out as its projected they're meant to instead of miles' approach which is to believe he can, in his words "do both" when it comes to saving the many or the individual, neither of them are bad or stupid for doing it their particular way - they're both unlimately trying do to the right thing

i absolutely agree that sharing more of who is is outside of spiderman would help reduce that separation he has between spiderman and miguel o'hara, because the spider society is a huge support system for people who understand each other and i think it would help miguel greatly to be open with even just a few of the other spider characters, but like you said we also know that his personal identity and how he sees himself is something he really struggles with in the comics

i do hope btsv does him justice and shows us more of the miguel characteristics from the comics, i like the idea of us getting a solo movie/series that's much more grounded in the 90's run so we actually get to see more of miguel outside the spider society (and the spider society is set in his home dimension but i get the gist of what you're saying)

thank you again for sending this though, it's interesting to see other people's interpretations!