#these guys aren't interesting in legitimate discussion or criticism

[thenotoriousscuttlecliff]

Putting aside the fact that costumes really don't need to look worn or dirty unless it is in keeping with the aesthetic of the show (and fandoms really need to get over this obsession with gritty realism), this really sums up what current twitter is like and why it is such a waste of time ever responding to someone with a blue tick.

[stachehand]

It feels rather relevant to speak about this here, so I'm going to get it out now.

To some folks I recently offended, particularly SkarureSonic, and CrushertheDoctor over there, I don't hold any ill-will towards any of you personally, and I never did. I've made remarks at a few things going on in your circle, but not out of malice or in anger, only in head-scratching confusion because I've seen firsthand what effects the continuation of such repetitious activity and involvement in drama has had on yourselves (like disappearing from Tumblr without an announcement for weeks).

Perhaps my word choices here and there weren't the best, and I'm sorry for that. I'm also sorry for bringing flashbacks to painful moments in the past, that was not my intention in the least. Besides not having the full story of things, I wasn't defending the crazed side of fandom or overly vitriolic defenders of a certain writer, or really talking about those groups to begin with. The only people I discussed (and wanted to keep the discussion about) were you guys and, again, that certain writer (on their own), and how comments on them over what they do and say feel a bit (or really) blown out of proportion at this point.

I'll say it again, because I don't think I'll be able to stress it enough for as long as I live: I'm not a fan of you-know-who's work (yeah, I don't feel like saying their name again, you know whom I'm referring to). I find their good stuff a fluke, and the other 95% of the time it's middling at best and terribly misguided at worst. So, hardly what you would call the mark of a raging fanboy. I care not about others finding it outright terrible, you do that as you please. Really. No sarcasm, I'm serious. Also, you don't have to ever stop talking about the person and criticizing them, I just find it weird to go beyond criticism and rave like they're that bad a human being at most (if not all) opportunities that come up. Seems like a waste to engage in such a vitriolic fashion further. You haven't said anything extreme, but it still has become consuming a little too often.

I mean, they haven't come any closer to hitting the event horizon than the duo who rhymes with "long laugh", and during both tenures, the mistreatment has been treated as okay while those who recognize the unfairness are a minority who get written off as butthurt apologists (though the other writer we have these days has it fairly easier in comparison).

Also, I wasn't trying to insult anybody's fan fiction. I've no problem with fan-made stories being shared, talked about, and having pride in what's been done for them. I do that too, and it feels nice. All I heavily disagree with is having bitterness - I repeat, not disappointment, but bitterness of the "I'll show you how it's done!" variety - towards current source material as part of the process, especially if what the official creators have put out isn't anything legitimately offensive or tasteless.

Also, Crusher, I take back my post about how you react to Doctor Eggman getting the spotlight stolen from Villains-of-the-Week. But, I do really hope any future occurrences of the trope don't sour your enjoyment of Sonic content to come (like if it happens in the 3rd Sonic movie, or the next mainline game if you wind up liking that). Eggman can be loved for more than just possessing a perfect main antagonist record in stories.

And all of you guys, never forget the great thing you have as a group of friends, and enjoy the best of your fandom to the fullest. Think what you will about me, just know that I have ZERO interest in being an antagonistic figure in this rich and vocal community. I think you're alright. In the series writer debacle, however, I take no sides (since you-know-who does have highly disagreeable conceptions they aren't too subtle about - Knowing Smiles are the least of the problems).

Since it's easy to be overwhelmed by how the rest of the overall fandom looks at us, I just want to reiterate again that I'm glad the friends I have in it are people like you. :)

:3

"Kicked out of the fandom, but not the franchise" is a good reminder, yeah. And even in the hypothetical scenario where all Sonic blogs will have me blocked and I won't be able to share any post, nothing can stop me from gushing and being happy with my friends :)

[talkfantasytome]

Going to delete ask posts that directly linked other people's posts, based on this feedback and suggestion (which I thoroughly appreciate!), as I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone or directly tell a specific person they're wrong. I'll repost the general content, with a summary of what was asked, starting with this post.

Anon Ask: Some people are saying that SJM has confirmed Vassien by saying that she'd like to do retellings of firebird legends, swan lake, and Vasilisa the Beautiful, using some shots of her comments. What are your thoughts on this? And the time on facebook that Sarah said E\ain and Lucien have a lot of "tension, growth, and healing to be found (together)".

The most important thing to consider here is timeline. Both of the twitter shown were made in April of 2015. The first one is, honestly, fairly irrelevant. First of all, she's just saying fairy tales she might like to retell. And, for the record, she has also said she'd like to do a retelling of The Little Mermaid, yet often people disregard that as an argument for Gwynriel. So, either her comments on what she'd like to do a retelling of matter, or they don't.

And, if they're saying that those comments are foreshadowing a Vassa + Lucien book, then clearly The Little Mermaid comments are foreshadowing a Gwynriel book. And then...where's E\ain's?

E\ain is getting a book, so which fairy tale gets the short straw?

Or, maybe, the story won't be exactly like the fairy tale.

I do think that both of those comments are important, but Sarah said she wants to do a retelling.

That could literally mean anything. All that tells us is that she will take themes and ideas from the story. I'm not saying Vassa won't be important in a later book, but Sarah can retell the story any way. She could have Vassa betray E\ain, get Koschei to transfer the curse over to the middle Archeron, and now E\ain is the swan on the lake (cause, come on, E\ain's def. a bit swan-like), and Lucien has to rescue her. Or, maybe Jurian is the one that rescues Vassa while Lucien and E\ain deal with Koschei?

There are so many options in a retelling that to say SJM telling us she wants to do a retelling of these stories is a clear sign that Vassa + Lucien are endgame is, honestly, not a very critical analysis.

I'm going to address this tweet next:

This twitter exchange happed April 30, 2015. ACOMAF was published in May of 2016. This post can not be used as foreshadowing of Vassa + Lucien, because it happened before we found out E\ain and Lucien are mates. That "at some point further down the road" literally means "any time after book 1".

People keep using this tweet and presenting it as if Sarah's response came recently. They're spreading misinformation - it may not be purposeful, they may not have seen or noticed the date, but this twitter exchange can't be used as proof that Lucien's person has to be someone other than E\ain, because when it was made we did not know about the Lucien and E\ain possibility.

That doesn't mean it definitely is talking about E\ain, but my point is that this is not proof of Vassa + Lucien, of someone else + Lucien, because of when it was posted.

As for other comments on retellings Sarah would like to do - it's the same argument as the first one. Sarah said she wants to do a retelling of the firebird and swan like. We all know this. It's not new information. People who are saying Vassa + Lucien won't happen aren't ignorant of this fact. We're well aware, and we're also well aware of every other thing Sarah has said, mentioned, foreshadowed, and we're tying it all together. Focusing solely on stories Sarah has mentioned she'd like to retell - not confirmed she will retell - and ignoring everything else doesn't provide a solid analysis. You have to weave how those stories would fit into the grander scheme, and look at the other surrounding factors as well.

And, again, we need to remember that Sarah can do whatever the hell she wants in terms of the story and how she chooses to retell a fairy tale. I mean, how often is Little Red Riding Hood turned into a werewolf story? And sometimes even Red is the wolf?

Writers use fairy tales as a base, a foundation, but then they make it their own. No writer is going to tell the fairy tale exactly how it first was. They're going to adjust it...a lot...to make it their own story.

I'd also like to point out that both times she mentions Vasilisa, she says "Vasilisa the Beautiful". The first time she also said 'the Brave', but the second, solely 'Beautiful'. Vassa is beautiful, of course, but one of E\ain's defining characteristics is her beauty. Even in ACOSF it was again mentioned, discussed, about how her beauty made others hate her.

Could Vassa be Vasilisa...of course. However, I think people are a bit blinded by the similarities in names. Remember, Vasilisa the Beautiful wasn't the firebird - those are different stories. And, honestly, after doing a bit of research into the tale, I'm starting to get more and more sure of the thought that the character who would portray Vasilisa is E\ain.

I think I'm going to do a post on it...

In the later comment on retellings she'd like to do - which we know came after the first as the first came out in August 2015 and that story she's telling was given after the second set of books was confirmed - I also find it interesting that she said Vasilisa the Beautiful (specifically) and Swan Lake, subbing out the firebird.

Why would she do that? Perhaps because she's already brought in the firebird pieces she planned to bring in. We already know that retelling, and how it's come to play. Vassa is a firebird by the curse.

I'm not saying it couldn't end in a Swan Lake thing, as that is what the curse reminds me of. But, personally, I think the fact that she's saying Swan Lake now is also symbolic of something more, possibly another character getting trapped by Koschei.

As for the other piece you asked about, I don't have much to say about it, because it feels like the closest we'll come to an elucien confirmation.

That was also posted a while ago, back when ACOMAF came out. So, it's not like this is recent information Sarah is providing us. However, we know that Sarah can sometimes end up choosing endgame based on gut and things that just hit her. Cassian and Nesta - literally didn't know about them until she wrote them on the same page and was like "oh shit". So Sarah saying that she and Lucien didn't see E\ain coming...I'm sorry, but that feels almost more telling than even the next part of the sentence - where she says they have growing and healing to do together.

That's so huge. And we haven't seen that yet. We've only really seen the tension.

Sarah said this back when ACOMAF came out. And it was around writing or publishing ACOWAR that she got the okay for the second set of books (I think?). Which means she was likely thinking about the longer-term stories before that. Which would explain why we didn't get that growth and healing in ACOWAR.

Instead, she left them in a spot where it seemed like a possibility, and then for the later books has just added more tension. But that journey is still there. She's had it planned for so long. And yes, maybe she could change her mind, but we only know of two cases where she did just that:

Az and Mor

Nesta and Lucien

For Az and Mor it was because she decided to make Mor bisexual and unable to be in an emotional relationship with a male. This was due to complaints over diversity. It's the closest Sarah's probably come to 'fanservice' - except, admittedly, this is so not fanservice. Fanservice is doing something like, say, having Voldemort and Bellatrix have a secret love child despite the fact that Voldy never once came off as having any form of romantic or sexual feelings for her or anyone, ever. (Seriously, that guy was asexual and that is a hill I'll die on.)

Adjusting a character due to legitimate complaints and concerns on diversity, not just fanservice. It's more a full on social service, really, to try and provide that representation better. Yes, it wasn't done in the best way, but she did make an attempt.

The second one - Nesta and Lucien. That was her general plan, until she put Nesta and Cassian on page together. Then it all went out the window. Just like all of Nesta's thoughts when she saw Cassian. Just like Cassian's entire brain when he saw Nesta. 👀

And we get it, because we see it too.

So, while Sarah could have changed her mind about E\ain and Lucien, the only reasons she'd do that don't yet apply. She's already made a change for the diversity complaints, and I don't see her doing that with these two. As for finding out they actually belong with someone else when she sees them on page - well, that hasn't happened yet. She made the E\ain + Lucien decision after we see E\ain and Azriel interact, so clearly Az is not that for E\ain. And we've seen Lucien and Vassa on page together. There's nothing there except Lucien being pained about her curse - which, yeah, she's his friend. How often is one IC member described as looking pained for another? Or thinks about how much it hurt them to see their friend hurt?

But we know what it looks like when the chemistry is so undeniable it will adjust Sarah's plans. And if you're not sure - go back and read all the Nessian scenes in ACOMAF. And then see the one scene where Lucien and Vassa are on page together - I think you'll find there's another male there that, with Vassa, rings closer to the Nessian home.

There was no on page chemistry between Vassa and Lucien, and certainly not enough to change Sarah's mind. Which would also mean E\ain already wasn't meant for Az, which is likely why no one arguing for Vassa + Lucien seems to care as much about that, because most people who ship them are already dead set on E\ain + Azriel.

So, there you have it, my point of view/rant on those two pieces. But it's always important to look at the context of a post, and especially the "source material" people use to provide proof. It's why I tend to stick to the text where I can, and only use SJM statements that don't have an expiration date to their importance. SJM saying something about how she loves happily ever afters, for example, no expiration date. SJM telling us in 2015 that there is someone special for Lucien down the road - an expiration date after the first sign of a possible love interest for Lucien. Once E\ain was declared to be his mate, that statement became irrelevant, because regardless of whether it will be E\ain or not, you can no longer state that it's clearly hinting at someone else, since E\ain is a love interest for Lucien.