#there's also an interesting element with coerced sex as a tool of power and control

[pynkhues]

https://www.tumblr.com/pynkhues/767837690335019008/httpswwwtumblrcomdownstairsbar76764587027983?source=share

Catching up on stuff, and this post is really interesting and well-thought-out. Can I ask--I've been seeing more discussion about Armand and whether or not Louis could consent to him, or when, and today I saw someone bring up the 1.6 "dissociating" sex scene between Louis and Lestat and call it dub-con. It doesn't really feel like that to me, even though it's obviously sex in a toxic relationship? But Louis gets distracted as Claudia is talking to him, Lestat stops and says his name, then only continues when Louis kisses him--they pretty explicitly have Lestat waiting for permission/encouragement to continue, and the whole thing is rather different from "we're having sex after I've done various mind-wiping/mind manipulation things on you, plus I am hiding the fact that I was directly responsible for killing your daughter and torturing you".

idk where the line is between "this is fucked up" and "this is non-con/dub-con" comes in a show about fucked up vampires lol. But whatever, that scene is hot as well as fucked up, which seems to be their intention in how they shot it. Side note, it's also crazy how those gifs that rotated the scene 90 degrees make it even hotter? I don't know why that is.

Thank you for your kind words, anon! It's definitely an interesting area to explore, especially given how questions of both mental and physical autonomy and agency are so deeply entwined with the themes of the show.

And mmm, I mean, Louis does talk about general disassociative episodes around that sex scene in 1.06, but I'd agree with you, I don't think he was actually disassociating in that scene, and I don't think there was any dub con there. As you identified, Lestat actively seeks consent from Louis when he feels Louis pulling away, which Louis gives, and so it's kind of a non-starter of an argument for me. If anything, it comes worryingly close to implying that people with depression can't consent to sex, which is infantilising at best, and, well - - a pretty dangerous line of thinking at worst.

Not all consensual sex is joyfully passionate lovemaking, especially in long-running relationships, regardless of how toxic they are. People have sex, and want to have sex for a lot of reasons, and I think Louis' resignation to his relationship with Lestat at that point was a resignation not to a lack of power or choice in the relationship, but a resignation to the fact that he's in love with him.

He's taken him back, he knows that he's always going to take him back, he wants to have sex with him, he wants to be close to him, but that doesn't change the gaping wound of a fact that their relationship isn't working. Lestat's still lying and cheating, Claudia's being extremely punishing to Louis over taking him back, he's lost the last of his family twice over, first with his mortal one, then with his immortal one with Claudia no longer willing to be his daughter (an infant death indeed! Louis has to grieve the loss of a child twice over), he's lost his business - something that's vital to his identity - to say nothing of the fact that he's still healing emotionally from what Lestat did to him.

Again, Louis' depressed, but he's consenting. I actually don't even find it that fucked up, like, I think Louis' there because he wants to be, he's just miserable that he wants to be there, which if anything, is just really sad.