#there’s no good outcome (unless you’re a warden) but I was not prepared for the outcome

[wren--bee]

Firstly, not letting these tags hide.

Secondly- I’ve been talking to a friend who has yet to play the game and giving my impressions without spoilers. And I talked at length about choices in the other games. Many of them are very obvious- either obvious to the player, or obvious in character, including a fair amount of “take a third option”.

And… you know, I love the first three games. (Especially DAO and DA2. Yes it’s at least partly nostalgia.) But there aren’t many times I’ve really agonised over choices. I don’t remember ever stopping and going “I have NO idea what to do.” (I HAVE gone “nooo that’s not what I meant to do at all!” but that’s another matter.) With DAV there have been choices I’ve been unsure about, options I’ve explored differently and changed my perspective on, things I’ve chosen to do and found myself regretting. (The thing about Davrin’s quest and the First Warden is one example because I had NO idea it had an impact later until I played it differently!)

The really interesting thing is that the choices you make are so tied into your perspective, your views- or possibly those of your characters. And not in a way which makes taking another path nonsensical or illogical or just plain evil! It’s just- how do you view the world? Culture? Heritage? Family, hopes, dreams, anger, grief, oh especially grief? These choices are grounded in real perspectives, real depth- it’s not “be nice to everyone or murder someone”, or even “risk people to take a third option and make everything perfect with no downsides.”

Bioware has a tendency to pull its punches with its choices, and I think it’s because a lot of players will refuse to engage with the pain of the choice. (Cue Mass Effect 3 and its “in war you must make hard choices but there are also definitely Best Choices here.”) Look at the people who decide there’s a “correct” answer to Treviso vs Minrathous! But the best choices in games are the ones which aren’t “moral decisions”, good vs evil. They’re the ones which are interesting, which challenge us to look at ourselves and ask why we make a choice, why we do certain things, why we consider this more important than that- and give us an insight into people who might feel otherwise by making the other choice valid too.

And yeah. To back up those tags… Veilguard does do that extremely well.

I'm a little irked by people saying that Origins had moral dilemmas, though. You can complete the whole game no problem by being kind and the "evil" choices are never advantageous. The game teases you with "you need this dark thing to win" but you never do. I guess that's part of the story, though. For example the option to broker peace between the elves and werewolves cheapens that story (As I always pick it, what reason is there to not?)

Some people's definition of a "moral dilemma" is the Megaton choice in Fallout 3. The choice is nuke a city for fun or don't nuke a city. That's not a moral dilemma that's just bullshit. Just because you are given the choice to do an evil thing doesn't make it a moral dilemma. It's an option to do an evil thing.

The impossible choice with no right outcomes that was Treviso vs Minrathous is something that the games before could have used a LOT more of.

[wolffyluna]

Camellia Tabris

...this was meant to be short. And then it ended up as ~1k of backstory for one of my Wardens. So, introducing Camellia Tabris, my perpetually worried city elf rogue (who unlike Sereda, is unambiguously a good person.)

Camellia Tabris grew up on her mother Adaia’s (sanitised for children) stories of her adventures and scrapes. Camellia loved them, and wanted to grow up to be just like her mother!

She got taught knifeplay, a bit of swordplay, and of course, how to steal anything that wasn’t nailed down (and how to remove the nails from things that were) by her mother. Camellia was on track to be the alienage’s next wild child, the one that was kinda concerning but who had the best stories— (She wanted adventures not because she wanted the excitement or the fame, not entirely. She wanted them so she could save people. All the best stories were about saving people.)

Adaia died when Camellia was thirteen. She wasn’t reckless—but she stood out. She was a tall enough poppy that when there was trouble, she was a good enough scapegoat.

 Some say that she just ran out of luck. You can escape Raleigh, but you can’t escape Raleigh and the hangman. There’s only so much luck to go around.

Camellia knew about death, of course she did—but she hadn’t realised that her mother’s adventures, that standing out, could get you killed.

She didn’t want to die. She wanted to live. (It’s a thing about her—even in the worst of situations, she always wants to live. She always wants everyone else to live, too.) So, she stopped standing out. She became quiet and meek and scrupulously polite. She learned how to be unnoticeable. (Not the same thing as being stealthy. She wasn’t sneaking around, that was noticeable if you got caught. She just faded into the background, even less noticeable than another face in the crowd.) She wanted stories about her—but she couldn’t really have them without risk. So, she was going to be the least remarkable elf in Denerim. She’d clean other people’s laundry. (Maybe pick a few pockets, but that wasn’t really remarkable, and she was rather good at it.) She’d get married. Raise equally cautious kids. Avoid pissing off any humans. She’d play by The Rules of being a city elf, and live till she was old.

This is about the time she developed her resting worried face. She was constantly evaluating risks, trying not to stand out.

Then came her wedding day. And all that entails, in Dragon Age: Origins.

 It spins her world onto a new axis, just as much as her mother’s death. She’d lived a fair few years staying quiet, staying out the way, staying out of notice, Playing By The Rules, because that’s what would keep her safe. That’s what she’d been told would keep her safe.

 And it didn’t.

She’s afraid. Of course she’s afraid.

But there is a thread of incandescent anger, because why did she make herself smaller when it didn’t even help.

 She plays along for a bit, because that’s her default. She’s running on autopilot, and her autopilot is ‘be polite and don’t say no.’ But even so, she doesn’t expect that to help, or keep her safe.

And then she gets a sword.

And all bets are off.

Because she is going to fucking murder her way through here. She’s going to save everyone, or die trying. And she doesn’t want to die, and you know what? She’s more likely to live with a sword. And with a sword, she can save the other women, and that’s the most important thing.  

It’d be nice to say ‘And from then on she was a dual wielding badass who gave no fucks’ except, no, that’s not true. As soon as the adrenaline wore off, she went back to being good ol’ Camellia ‘perpetually worried and polite’ ‘I FUCKED UP’ Tabris.

She gets recruited in to the Grey Wardens. She isn’t thrilled, but it’s better than swinging. And while the Grey Wardens aren’t respected much, she’ll get some respect. And even if it’s risky, she can save people. She doesn’t have to be a small Tabris, she can be… a medium sized Tabris. (Camellia still wants to not attract too much attention. Even though she knows it doesn’t keep her safe, old habits die hard.) She just has to follow the Rules of being a Warden. And they’re not so bad as the Rules of Being The Sort of Elf Who Lives A Long Time.

…And then Ostagar happens.

 Even being a Warden won’t save you. Those Rules cannot save you. And now you are hated, and have to save a whole country.

…and she does that. Because Fereldan deserves to be saved. Everyone deserves to be saved from the Blight, if she can manage.

She makes her own rules. They’re kludgey, and they have the cruft of previous rules, but they’ll do

Save everyone as many as you can ·        

Take lives carefully. Only kill if you have to. ·        

Be polite kind. (And polite, if you can.)·        

Stick up for the little people, the people who don’t have other people to stick up for them.

(Be the person handing them the sword, in their own dark rooms)·        

Don’t attract attention 

Unless it’s one of those rare instances where saying you’re a Warden helps. In which case, say it loud and clear, and get those people to help. ·         Don’t play by society’s rules. You cannot win.

If you play by the rules: you lose. If you don’t play: you lose. Be prepared to lose. Be prepared to swing. Know that as soon as the Loghain is dead, as soon as the archdemon is defeated, you will be making a close acquaintance with an elm tree and the Maker.

(She analyses her companions’ problems as being screwed over by Rules. From Leliana, the literal failed player of The Game, to Wynne. …Wynne could have done worse, but Camellia sees how she could have grown old, in Wynne. Wynne could have done so much more. She could have been so much happier.)

She convinces Alistair to go through with the Dark Ritual. She doesn’t want to die, she doesn’t want Alistair to die, this is a way so everyone can live—but, well, she can see what echoes with ‘have this sex you don’t want, and no one has to die!’ She doesn’t want… but it’s the best option she can see.  

She and Alistair… come to terms with what happened there. That revelation of what they are in the dark. But their friendship is different, from then on. It has to be.

Camellia is quite surprised that she ends up hailed as a hero? And alive? She’s aware she took steps to make that outcome happen, but she is still rather surprised that it happened.

…she’s also surprised that she ends up with a wedding that goes well? …okay, it’s several years late, one of the participants is the gods-damned Divine, but no one dies! That is success.

[becky-helene]

Random video game wondering. Long post, sorry mobile app doesn't allow for "read more" and I'm too lazy to post this via means that do have ability to insert "read mores".

I have a question for people who play rpg games (specifically Dragon Age and Mass Effect since those are the particular games I’m more so thinking of, not to mention the only ones I’ve played….or played a bit of and plan on playing more of in ME’s case…but question also applies for Fallout, Skyrim, or any sort of game that allows for character creation and multiple playthroughs so as to experience different story outcomes)

Do you generally consider your first go through of the game/first created character as your main or “canon” game/character? Or do you hold off on really thinking about canon or main until you’ve found the “type” of playthrough (character, romance, story choices, etc) you like the most? (Or don’t think about canon/main at all and are just like “hey, chill, you’re overthinking”, which is a valid avenue to take too lol).

----(cue contemplating own Ryder options, feel free to scroll past if uninterested)----

I’m all bouncing in my seat waiting for Andromeda, and in that excitement I’ve been contemplating on my Ryder. For now, all I’ve really come up with is that I know it’ll be sisRyder, most likely she’ll embody the “precious cinnamon roll, with the occasional snark” archetype since I tend to gravitate towards that a lot, if hairstyle options include any curly or at least wavy options I'll most likely be using them, cause well duh lol, and….that’s kind of it. Well, there’s also practically a folder full of possible names that I either need to trim down or at least settle on some finalist for first Ryder while holding onto the rest for future sisRyders.

I’m still flip flopping on who she’ll romance. Partly because we don’t really know who is romancable by sisRyders…..but mostly because I can’t decide between Liam and Jaal (assuming they’re romancable at all, let alone by sisRyder). Liam is adorable and my Death in Paradise and Downton Abbey fan self is all “yes plz!” at Gary Carr voicing him (though good god I was not prepared for full Brit accent Gary/Liam. Oh god send help I’m dead).

And Jaal….well, Iron Bull is my #1 Video Game Boyfriend, and I’ve developed serious Garrus love even without playing the whole trilogy for myself. So, clearly large nonhumanoids (and sporting some sort of eye covering apparently, since they’ve all got that in common….oh, and scarring of varrying degrees) that invoke feelings of “fuck, I’d climb him like a tree” is my video game boyfriend type. I’m not discounting the idea of Vetra being my video game girlfriend for a later Ryder regardless of who she’s romancable by, but for now my indecisive ass can only handle two candidates.

A part of me is wondering if I should come up with in depth character study, personality, and what not, and really make Ryder to be like….the best and most (at least to me in my own head) fleshed out as she can be, as I've seen other people doing in preparation for their Ryders. But then another part of be is like “why are you obsessing? She’ll just be your first Ryder, who knows if she’s your main”. Which is true. None of my “main” Dragon Age characters have been my first.

---(long drawn out oversharing of Inquistors/Hawkes/Wardens, again, feel free to scroll past if uninterested)---

For Inquisition, what would be come my canon type of game (f!Adaar mage romancing Iron Bull, mage allies, Wardens stay, I think Orláis outcome that would later become my canon was first used here being reuniting Briala and Celene, Inquisitor drinks from Well, Leliana as divine) was my second ever playthrough.

But it wasn't until I'd played through different characters, romances, choices, etc, before I realized that was my absolute favorite. And it wasn't until my I think 20th/5th (if counting both current games and the games I lost when my PS3 had a meltdown and I lost all my save files/only counting that which I've played since upgrading to ps4) game in total that I declared Yasema Adaar (I think 13th/3rd of f!Adaar mage Bullmances) as my main/canon. And the only reason she beat out previous f!Adaars for "canon" title was because she was the first character (f!adaar and otherwise) I stuck through the entirety of all dlcs with, as supposed to giving up on JoH and/or Descent halfway through and moving on to Trespasser. So, that feat alone deserved the title of main/canon character.

As for my main Warden and Hawke, Hawke is somewhat similar---my favorite "type" of Hawke (f!Mage Fenris rivalmance) was maybe my 2nd or 3rd ever DA2 game (2nd was maybe mage and Fenris friendshipmance, 3rd was when I was like yeah I'm kinda liking the rivalmance). The particular Fenris romancing mageHawke that inevitably became my canon Hawke was just the one of many other mageHawke Fenrismances that I happened to have used in putting together Yasema's world state. So she became canon by default.

Ditto on my Warden. My first ever DAO playthrough was an f!Cousland rogue romancing Alistair and became his queen, my second was f!Amell romancing Alistair and became his mistress when he became king. My Amell became canon because, again, by default due to making the Yasema world state triple dose of mage ladies.

Although, if going by what type played most often.....I guess DAO stands apart from DA2 and DAI in that while those two my most played type became canon, I only have 1 Amell playthrough verses like....3 or 5 Couslands, if counting one that I was in the middle of when playstation had its meltdown and I lost saves thus incomplete game, and another that's from me trying to recently revisit DAO on a computer and I gave up on and is therefore also incomplete unless my console gaming preferring self returns to it at some point.

If we're counting only complete plays, then it's about 3 Couslands, 1 Amell, (also have half of an f!Aeducan that was meant to serve as the third Alistair romance outcome of the two remaining Wardens together, but that got cut short due to PS3 having a second and this time fatal meltdown halfway through playing).

And as for Mass Effect, well I'm still in the middle of attempting to play the original trilogy on PC. It's slow going due to my aforementioned dragging my feet when it comes to PC gaming. So, my Shepherd will automatically be my canon since she'll be the only one most likely lol.

----(okay, enough blather, back to the actual point)----

Okay, this got a lot more long winded and ramble-y than originally intended. Sorry about that.

Anyway, so yeah, just curious about anyone who does declare specific portags as their canon/main in any of these sort of games. Is first automatically canon to you, or do you take a wait and see approach before declaring what is your main play through?

Oh and somewhere in all my rambling I think I lost the reason by I started this post in the first place, which is that I'm treating my first Ryder as if she'll be my main/canon, when really my history has shown first ever play through=\=main or canon down the road. Isn't it fun when your ADHD makes you easily distracted *and* hyperfixated? :/ lol