#there is no moral gray theyre OPPRESSORS

[fandomluver-101]

Talking with friends has made me realize something. I'm likely one of a small few that never liked Caitlyn way back in season 1. The moment she told Ekko "it's a misunderstanding," I hated her. Telling him he was wrong about how the Enforcers treat the people of the Undercity, how they're in Silco's control as well?

There is no defense for such naivety, not when she's ventured into the Undercity and seen what the place looks like, seen a glimpse of their suffering. "This city needs healing," but she had no issue POISONING the city because one person killed her mother. Caitlyn took her mother's work and used it for PURE EVIL. She proved exactly why Piltovans are irredeemable to me.

All of Piltover's progress is built on the lives of Zaunites, their castle is held aloft by corpses. Caitlyn's privileged lifestyle was only possible because of that and the moment she has an excuse, she adds to the pile of corpses with not a HINT of genuine remorse.

But oh, feel bad for her because she was betrayed (after SHE betrayed, abused, used, and discarded someone else)? Have her saved by the very people she saw no issuing brutalizing, poisoning, and oppressing when it suited her mood? Act as if this is a GOOD and TRIUMPHANT thing!?

The writers' idea that Piltover and Zaun are both wrong and set aside their differences against Noxia pisses me off the most. Please note that at this point, Zaun is not ZAUN - they are still Piltover's "undercity." They struggle to breath because of Piltover, they die enmass from lack of basic necessities because of Piltover, they are wrongly incarcerated because of Piltover.

Piltover has always been the wrong party, the bad and morally bankrupt side - even compared to SILCO of all people (in my opinion), Piltover is just the worst and nothing can redeem the. That badass entrance of Jinx and the Zaunites SHOULD have been them decimating BOTH Piltovan and Noxian forces without discrimination. It's literally what Piltover deserves for their actions!

As I told my friends, Zaun literally has NOTHING to lose and EVERYTHING to gain war. Freedom does not come without a war, a fight, a bomb killing the council and a terrorist killing the faces of their oppression (Enforcers). Jinx becomes a symbol of revolution BECAUSE of this. We as viewers love her BECAUSE of this (and her being a complex and sympathetic character in general).

Piltover had everything to LOSE if Zaun was independent, that's literally why they snuffed out any rebellions and have Enforcers to begin with! There is no misunderstanding, there is no moral ambiguity, there is one side in the right and one side in the wrong. And Caitlyn, to me, is the embodiment of that WRONG - she claims to want the best for Zaun until it doesn't go her way and now she will enforce her will and wants on them because she CAN.

She doesn't deserve to be portrayed sympathetically and Piltover did not deserve to be saved.

[arlathen]

my only engagement w the da subreddit is getting into arguments w random people about how c*llen sucks.

[leafy-wings]

Pretty sure when Blue said he was going to burn it all down, he meant "burning down the system". Blue has never wanted to hurt HiveWings and he still stands by that. I know the HiveWings are terrible, but thinking that Blue not wanting to kill them makes him "spineless" is awful.

i guess im biased because in my rage so ill try to explain better. i have.. a lot to explain, but i cant really connect everything. this has been written at 4 AM- if i need to extrapolate on one single certain point, i will try. also, a lot of this sounds very cruel. the truth is, im someone dealing with a lot of oppression myself, and yes. i would kill my oppressors. because oppression is a real world suffocating issue, not a fun thing to slap onto your childrens book and handwave away all of the implications.

if its burning down “the system”... whats the point in pointing that out? in that, whether it be the system or the hives, the lack of destruction OR action which i pointed out still stands. the context as shown in the screenshot is that he is not going to sit by and send letters or try to communicate with the queen as thats what admiral has already been doing. if hes not being a pacifist as said by “obeying the system”, than logically what else is he going to do? hes already decided not to be a pacifist and not to be hostile, leaving him in the strange limbo of wanting change but not wanting to do anything about it. for the next 2 books hes just dragged around and used as a playing card- he has none of the determination or motivation that blue had in book 11.

if tuis trying to write arc 3 as a morally gray story where theres a third answer aside from kindness or aggression which all the pro hivewing blogs are saying, shes really failing. there are real world situations where communication didnt work, and violence filled revolution did- theres no reason pinning the hivewings down wouldnt work, when pinning the nightwings down DID. she had to shoehorn in evil plant to give an outward reason for ALL hivewings being bad, ignoring every single other bad thing that they do out of control of the queen, and for a reason why revolution wouldnt work from the hivewings.

and the end point for me is, even if blue does peacefully burn down the system without hurting anyone.... hivewings have been acting like this for 50 years, oppressing silkwings and believing in genocide. if blue destroys the system, they WONT submit and it wont change anything- “the system” as tui has pointed out is the queen, only. since the first book she hasnt mentioned that taking advantage of that silkwings must go through under hivewing employment, hasnt mentioned the silkwing factory except briefly, doesnt mention the propaganda, etc etc etc. if she writes wasp as going away and all the hivewings learning empathy, than its bad, horrible, unrealistic writing!

and i see people fantasize, “what if wasp was killed by a crowd of hivewings?” and everyone goes OH, YES! thatd be so cool! i hope we get that! but when you say, what if wasp was killed by a crowd of silkwings/leafwings? and everyone goes now wait, no, they have to be peaceful, they need to be kind, they need to roll over backwards for their oppressor. the book writes wasp now as a victim due to the othermind, when shes enslaved a whole tribe and tried to genocide another

silkwings are forced into a certain position, they must take a certain job without a care for what they want to do or what theyre good at. they are employed by hivewings that do not care about them, as shown by refusing them from leaving when their work is done. they are refused service at most stores- we’re only shown one, but blue mentioned that this is a wide problem, not one store. they are touched invasively, force fed propaganda, paralyzed and humiliated in public for fighting in any capacity. they are NOT allowed to peacefully protest- thats why they have misbehavors way. all of these actions happen outside of control of queen wasp. you expect them to sit back and allow it to happen, to have an escape offered to them- the dragons that have tortured them, taken their lives from them, taken the lives of their children and family and lovers- and to sit back and say, no, i wont hurt them.

is she trying to write it as a story of “i wont hurt them even though they hurt me?” havent we already gone over this? if someone punches you on the street, you wont make any difference by refusing to punch them back. when youre in school and being bullied, its normal for parents to say, punch them back, defend yourself. and not only that, but enslavement and burning buildings down are NOT equal.

“WHAT ABOUT THE EGGS?? THAT MAKES IT BAD.” wings of fire has always been a story nullifying the feelings towards egg death. how about you take your ideology and slap it along- “hvitur is evil for trying to get the prophecy dragons, because it ended up killing an egg, even though that wasnt his intention!” “peril is evil for being forced to kill a bunch of eggs, even though she didnt want to!” “kestrel is evil for being forced to try to kill the flameless dragonet, even though she had to!”. all of that in book one. its unavoidable, is my point, throughout this. wasp was given the opportunity to listen, the hivewings have had 50 years to reconsider and theyve only gotten more and more testy. they deserve to be punished for it. and anyways, they planned to save eggs and dragonets so that point is moot.

[transterrence]

hi im here to politely disagree with some of your points here. im just here to offer another perspective m8 . im not attacking you, i dont want to start discouse /gen

1. ive always thought they were really well written but i can see why you dislike them. they can get really fucking overbearing lmao

2. i think its far to say remi has a savior complex, but i can def see where youre coming from. she does feel the need to try and help everyone-- its probably a result of the way she grew up + her general morals/mindset/personality. however, when you say “not in a good way”, i mean obviously. saviors complexes arent healthy. theyre can be damaging to both the individual and the persons being “saved”

3. arlo is maintaining his facade to keep a sense of safety in the school. his ego did take a severe hit, however, hes merely acting.

4. “to behave to john that way” i honestly dont know what kind of behavior youre implying ?? uhm do you mean how he treats john badly?? he doenst really know john’s circumstance very well or him as a person at all-- all he knows is that his best friend tried to help john and john got pissed and hit her and called her ‘a bitch’. from blyke’s perspective, john’s an asshole when all remi was trying to do was help [im referencing when sera was on suspension and remi helped john pick up his papers. there was no beef between remi & john at that point]

5. i dont understand this one lmao. i think you might be saying that people should stop saying john’s taking it too far?? john did, however, severely injure students.

6. see, i can see where youre coming from here. john exposed the royals/the shit system which lead to positive change in the high tiers’ mindsets. however, youre excusing his behavior. in no case should the hospitalization and brutalization of students should be excusable. it is understandable with what john has experienced but should not be excused. its not good. his behavior should not be endorsed.

7. “what is there to apologize for?”.. he beat them up. he sent them to hospitals. he humiliated them in front of everyone. sure, hes only giving what he received back, but if thats your reasoning then youre still excusing the same behavior youre condemning the royals for. once again, his actions are understandable not excusable. as in his actions make sense but should not be immediately forgiven because of that.

8. there shouldnt be a competition as to who was more traumatized/who had more traumatic backstories. all trauma is valid even if its not all to the same degree. it might not be as “severe”, but they still did experience bad stuff. everyone in unordinary is a result of the system- thats the whole concept of the story; that a corrupt society such as the one in unordinary will hurt everyone. 

9. this is the one i heavily disagree with you on. one, you throw around the word ‘gaslight’ very casually but there is no gaslighting/manipulation during that conversation. she never gaslit him. he called her a bad leader, she realized that in her own monologue, but she also expressed her own opinion of him being hypocritical. go ahead and give me an example as to an instance in which she “gaslights” him. ill wait.

10. no one is explicitly “in the wrong”. theyve all done bad/morally gray things. people who say that john is the only one at fault are certainly wrong, but to say he hasnt done anything bad at all would also be false. its all a spectrum- its not black and white. also, even if one’s being oppressed, it doesnt make it okay for one to use the same method on the oppressor. all it does is promote more violence. again, understandable, but not excusable.

11. yes she has to work on it, but it will be difficult for someone in her situation. she found out her best friend had been lying to her for a while, of course she would have issues trusting him again. 

12. i agree with you on this one !! it was incredibly brave for john to go back into an environnement that could trigger him and that was severely emotionally and physically taxing for him. there is a chance of relapse, and he has to know his own limits.

13. i get it if you dont want to like the royals. i think its far to call them “oppressors”, but they were certainly promoting, whether intenionally or unintentionally, the corrupt system. 

14. yes !! youre so right. no one should be forced to forgive anyone. the low tiers are valid in not forgiving him, even if he does improve as a character.

To celebrate unOrdinary season 2 release here are my thoughts/rants and EXTREMELY hot takes. With maybe spoilers? Idk man.

1. The Royals are probably the worst set of fucking characters in this godforsaken webtoon.

2. Remy has a savior complex. Not in a good way.

3. Arlo really be walking around like he’s hot shit for someone who got his ass beat because he fucked around and found out.

4. Blyke (is that how you spell is) is a little bitch boy with such an audacity to behave to John that way.

5. No more stories about “bullied boy goes to far by beating up his bullies” and people dog pilling on the victim.

6. Sorry but John was right for beating the Royals asses. The only reason that school has seen any positive changes was because he beat the asses of people who fucked around and F O U N D O U T.

7. I’m glad John didn’t apologize to the Royals because what is there to apologize for?

8. If the Royals are “a product of their system” then so is John and their sort of “background arcs” weren’t even half as traumatizing as his.

9. Again, Remy has a savior complex. She is self righteous. I remember that seen with her and John in the room after he went full blown “no hair gel John” and she just essentially gaslit him when he called her out on being a SHITTY fucking leader.

10. Again no more fucking stories trying to make it seem like the person who suffered the harassment and bullying and pain is the ONE IN THE WRONG for adopting the method of their oppressors and using it on said oppressors. No fucking more. If I have to deal with one more brainless fucking take from someone who hasn’t moved past the preconvential moral way of thinking I’m going lose whatever braincells I have left.

11. Seph needs to now work on letting John in because the whole conflict of the end of last season was “him not letting her in”. It quite literally killed your friendship.

12. John better than me, I wouldn’t have gone back lmao. But if he is gonna put himself in that situation again he needs to learn how to choose peace. And I mean choose it.

13. As a reader I don’t think I will ever like or warm up to The Royals. I do not care if John does, if it happens good for him, I have just no longer moved by stories of the victim reconciling with their oppressors/bullies.

14. I don’t even gaf if the people at school warm up to John either (specifically the lower tiers, if they’re higher tiers idgaf about their existence) they would be valid in doing just like John is valid in not apologizing to The Royals.