#theonethatwatchesalotofshows

[thestupidhelmet]

Do you think Jay's womanizing could be explained by his father's and uncles' constant bragging about his conquests when he was growing up? It would make sense for him to turn out like you described, but the way he turned out in the actual show could also make a lot of sense if you imagine his father and uncles sharing TMI about their own sex lives or saying things like: "don't settle down, sleep with as many girls as you can, that's the life" or "you are twelve and you still haven't kissed a girl? You need to get right on it, you're behind!" This kind of upbringing would produce a womanizer but the show could have delved more into that and had Jay tell more stories about his home life than just "my mom is mad that I set the carpet on fire"

I think it's a plausible possibility -- without Jackie being his mother or in his life. But Jackie would've made Jay the center of her life, especially with Kelso stepping out in her regularly (a reasonable extrapolation based on his T7S characterization and their relationship in both T7S and T9S).

Jackie would not want Jay emulating his father, despite that -- or because -- she can't disentangle her romantic feelings from Kelso. While she's her T7S S1-S4 controlling and somewhat violent self to T9S Kelso, she could very well treat Jay in a much more loving way. We know she's capable of it with the right influences and motivation.

With a mom who respects, loves, and supports him, Jay would (hopefully) not develop the misogyny Kelso and his male siblings have due, in large part, to their mother's inability to parent so many children and give the attention each needs. As Eric tells Kelso in "Stolen Car" (T7S S1), Kelso's parents have seven kids and won't notice Kelso is missing or have the wherewithal to care that one was arrested.

Of course, Kelso's father is equally responsible. But from what we see of him in "Career Day" (T7S 1x18), he's not turned into his emotions. He's a worker, possibly a workaholic. He's not the dad to play a baseball game with his kids or take them to a baseball game.

But for Kelso and Casey, at least, their anger and resentment at their upbringing is transferred onto all women since their mother is likely the parent who was physically present and doing most of the parenting -- and probably at her wits' end with seven of them to raise.

Jackie has one child in T9S. Despite that she's a Jackie whose relationship with Hyde is cut from her core, her core still contains her potential to love unconditionally, her emotional insight, her reflex to be helpful and supportive, her potential to be self-aware. Jay would've gotten the best of Jackie while growing up with the discipline and boundaries Kelso is incapable of giving him.

For example, he wouldn't have stolen Nate's bike because Jackie would've made sure Jay had the best of everything, partly to (over)compensate for the father he has and her toxic relationship with him.

Kelso's sex talk(s) would consist of "doing it as much and as often as you can. That'll prove you're the hottest guy around, and everyone'll look up to you. Also, most chicks'll expect you to be monogamous. Just tell them you are and have sex with whoever you want. It worked for me. Your mom still married me --twice -- despite all the cheating I do -- I mean did. Yeah. 'Cause she'd rather be with the hottest cheater than the loserist monogamist."

(^^^ This is before the third divorce and third remarriage).

Jackie's sex talks would also be romantic relationship talks. First, she'd tell him to ignore everything his dad said. Then she'd say, "Find out who the girl you like really is. It's easy to ignore red flags if you want an idea of a girl badly enough. Don't mistake what's fantasy for what's real.

"If you don't want to be 'tied down' to one girl, that's okay. Just be honest with the girls you date. Let them know you aren't interested in being anyone's full-time boyfriend. Then they have the choice to hook up with you or not. You wouldn't want a girl you really, really like to lie to you about that, right? And being silent about the truth is the same as lying."

Jay might ask her why she stays "with Dad" or keeps going back to him.

Jackie says, "You are a wonderful, smart, creative boy. You can be whoever you want. Have what you truly want. Don't settle for less than what you're worth."

Jay says, "Wait ... are you telling me you settled for Dad? Why?"

Jackie says, "I'm telling you that you don't have to settle."

Jackie refuses to elaborate, but Jay wants to know why his great mom would settle for his not-so-great dad. This would be a driving force because it's an inextricable part of his own identity (as forged by his upbringing).

[nikkiruncks]

tagged by @theonethatwatchesalotofshows

rules: list your favorite characters from four different pieces of media and let everyone vote on who matches your vibe best

Tagging @cancerian-woman @randomwriter23 (i miss u!) @disneymbti @occulthours @userlaylivia @theonewithallthefixations etc

[nikkiruncks]

ty for tagging me @blairwaldcrf <3

tagging: @randomwriter23 @disneymbti @cancerian-woman @occulthours @theonewithallthefixations @theonethatwatchesalotofshows

stealing this game from @tuseranita 🙏❤️

rules: go here and make a poll with your top 10 most listened-to artists (long term!) and let your followers choose:

tagging: @terrainofheartfelt @insistonyourcupofstars @strideofpride (@rachelblairy was already tagged?) @laufire @habibialkaysani @welldressedllama @anewbrainjughead @doyelikehaggis @splatooshy @takaraphoenix @legendsofentity @lexkent @ssmtskw @ak-rye-47 @bisexualdinahlance @nikkiruncks @crossedsabers10s but of course no pressure!

[thestupidhelmet]

You said that Nikki is the most complex T90S character, but tbh I think it's Gwen. I feel like we get the most insight into her home life out of all the kids and correct me if I'm wrong but isn't she the only one apart from Leia that we see interact with both of her parents? While we don't even know anything about Ozzie's parents, Nate's dad and never see Nikki's parents on screen.

I was weighing my opinion between Nikki and Gwen when I wrote that post. Out of all the characters besides Leia, Gwen's family is depicted the most on T9S. Her mother Sherri is part of the main cast, and Nate is Gwen's brother. Season 2 (as I'm calling parts 2 and 3) gives us two vital Gwen family episodes. One where she tells her mom about her experiences with racism and the other where she goes through a reconciliation arc with her dad.

That being said, these episodes -- while important -- are both isolated moments in the show and contain the beginning, middle, and end of character arcs for Gwen that would've been better served as multi-episode arcs to go deeper. The formula of 1. Problem Presented 2. Problem Escalates 3. Problem (Neatly) Resolved in one episode is reminiscent of late '80s, early '90s family sitcoms.

Had Gwen experienced microaggressions throughout the show consistently (not constantly), the differences between her experiences in the world vs. her brother Nate's -- and, perhaps, Nate being protective of his younger sister in this regard her whole life -- being discussed with Leia and/or Nate and/or Ozzie, the payoff of her reckoning with her experiences of racism with her mom would've been more effective.

Similarly, had Gwen's feelings about her dad been brought up consistently in the show -- as Hyde's are in T7S during seasons 1-2 and erupt when he finds Bud in Point Place -- her episode of reconciliation with her dad would've been more effective.

We do know some aspects of Ozzie's parents. He discusses his dynamic with them in quite a few episodes, particularly where his sexuality is involved. Although his parents are never seen on the show, their relationship with Ozzie affects him and his choices consistently.

The above is even more true for Nikki, especially in season 2. We learn a lot about what her parents expect from her and how that's affected her choices her whole life, including how focused she is on preparing for a specific future. In season 2, she breaks free of what's essentially been a prison for her mentally and emotionally. Her whole character, the way she carries herself, how she talks, is a clear result of her upbringing. Her character has the most subtext, which is why she's the most complex character on the show for me.

In season 1, this subtext exists and is touched upon textually a bit. Her relationship with Nate is important because she chose him from her heart, not her parents' expectations. The tension that grows between them ultimately stems from the conflict in Nikki between internalizing her parents' view of what her life should be according to them and what she wants her life to be. Nate doesn't fit her parents' version of her future. He does fit her own.

Where Gwen's deeper emotional arcs are dealt with in one-off episodes, Nikki's emotional journey is portrayed throughout the show and has relatively high emotional stakes. Leia's emotional journey, by comparison, has relatively low emotional stakes (maybe not for her, but certainly for me as the audience 😅).

This is only my perspective, however. It doesn't preclude people from having different ones. 😊