#then it needs to focus on the characters for which the joker is thematically relevant because of the effect he's had on them in his actions

[navree]

wayne family adventures going "we're gonna make an entire season about the joker and center literally everyone EXCEPT barbara and jason beyond the bare minimum" is certainly a choice and lemme just say, it is Not a fucking good one

[marley-manson]

inspired by the obnoxious anon haunting majorbaby lol:

In the past I’ve said I could see BJ as either gay or bi, which is technically true, but I don’t actually headcanon him as bi because BJ’s sexuality is only interesting to me if he’s gay. like, imo it’s the only sexual orientation that intersects with his characterization in a meaningful or worthwhile way.

BJ’s character is ‘archetypal poster boy for the 50s,’ and BJ’s story is about being obsessed with his wife as a coping mechanism, because he needs an image of an idyllic future to focus on while he’s in Korea. The cracks in BJ’s veneer begin to show when he reveals resentment over conforming to expectations (Wheelers and Dealers), when he reveals repressed rage which is explicitly tied to his fear of losing/not being good enough for his roles (hence the heavyhanded ‘replacements’ theme in Period of Adjustment), when he reveals insecurity over Peg needing him (several episodes where he freaks out about her being too independent or potentially cheating), and, when it comes to relevant flaws, when he straight up tells someone else he’d have an affair with her if it wasn’t for the fact that he needs his coping mechanism during his stay in a war zone (”I can’t go from hello to I love you because of the damn war!”)

You can argue for different interpretations of several of these moments individually if you want, but together, whether intentionally or not, they add up to a pretty consistent picture of a guy enamoured not with Peg and Erin specifically, but with being a perfect guy with a wife and child he supports.

So if he’s straight then he goes home and either stays married and lives happily ever after, which is both boring and thematically incorrect if we tie all these moments together as a coherent characterization rather than dismissing them as random disparate dramatic episodes a badly written character careens between, or he goes home and his marriage crashes and burns and he becomes serial remarriage guy, as Larry Gelbart has tongue-in-cheekly suggested, which is thematically correct but also boring.

If he’s bi see above. Maybe he explores his sexuality too, maybe he hooks up with Hawkeye, but it doesn’t add anything to his character. He’s attracted to women, he’s theoretically able to live happily ever after with one, he’s got nothing but his issues as a conformer in the 50s standing in his way of happy hetero ever after. He can still achieve his thematically appropriate divorce ending, but his sexuality doesn’t figure in one way or another, it’s incidental.

If he’s gay then it adds something. It enriches his role as 50s family guy poster boy by making it a fundamentally false image that he could never fit into, as well as adding a dimension to why he’s so desperate to cling to that image. It fits in neatly with his repression and resentment of being the great guy everyone likes (Wheelers and Dealers again), and even plays off the implication that he’s been dealing with negative feelings most of his life, which we can assume based on the way he describes his pranks as taking his feelings out on other people, and the fact that he was a hardcore practical joker pre-war too.

It even fits the satirical sensibility of the show when he was first introduced. To take BJ at face value in season 4 as Trapper’s replacement just straight up doesn’t work for me, and if we were meant to take him at face value then it’s a major misstep imo. The show consistently subverted its archetypal 50s characters. Norman Rockwell kid in Love and Marriage turned out to be a sex trafficker, Frank and Margaret are both giant judgmental hypocrites, everyone loves having sex and cheating. The satire was largely focused on the military, but it utilized the fact that it’s a period piece to make fun of the idealized, propagandic 50s image a lot. If BJ, who’s practically a 50s car ad come to life, was meant to be a straightforward picture-perfect dude thrown into a tragic situation, then the show really dropped the satirical ball by implying that an archetype like BJ genuinely is rightfully aspirational.

Which, yk, it very well might’ve, but if so then I’m gonna add some context in my own headcanons that makes his character fit the satire better, in addition to being more interesting, fun, and thematically appropriate.

[necroalx]

My problem with P5R new ending (spoilers)

I’ve been asked in my curiouscat about why I have problems with P5R ending a bunch of times by now, and honestly, I can't really put it in a way that wouldn't sound personal since my dislike over the matter comes from a personal appreciation of how the themes were handled in both versions.

With that being said feel free to ignore my POV:

First I would like to mention the things I loved about P5R (with spoilers ahead):

-The gameplay improvements were just perfect.

-Akechi's character arc was top notch for me, exactly what I wanted from him and I feel very satisfied with his new interactions.

-Sumire characterization during the first 8 ranks of her confidant were pretty cool.

-The individualization of the thieves until December, I loved the showtime attacks If anything I would have wanted they added more of those between more of the thieves too.

-Maruki is an incredibly well written character and Daiki Itoh's direction for relatable antagonists shines through him, he was really what P5 needed, the timing of the new semester events may be debatable for me, but I loved everything about him.

-Also loved Jose even we didn't get that much of him.

-The final boss fight was amazing!

Anyway My problem with the P5R ending is (Also, obvious spoilers for P5 and P5R):

-Retroactively diminishes the meaning of the original ending:

P5 vanilla original ending was in a way, the ultimate message about changing the world in the most healthy way possible, seeing it as the way it should be FIRST.

There were theories about this being an altered reality, and this is proven right by the events of the last semester in P5R.Also, with the mere existence of the events of P5R new content, the original ending becomes now an inconclusive story. Which makes it ultimately a lessened ending, because "this isn't the way the story should end".

-The theme of rebellion against an unjust society gets pointlessly messy and lost in transition:

Yes, I get the subject of facing reality is a way more important topic and way more down to earth, the thieves disbanding the way they did and going their own separate ways is indeed thematically fitting and shows some growth coming from their experiences in the new semester. Still, the game being written by a different person, plus having a scenery of "kids dreaming about their perfect world given to them by a overprotective father figure" seems to in a way tarnish and overwrite their experiences gained through the whole story.

I understand this is not the message meant to be conveyed by this new ending. I know and for sure love that in Royal the thieves don't exist just for Joker's sake was their whole characters aren't defined just by his actions anymore. BUT with those things mentioned above, all these change feels like a "correction" made to express how "japanese societal expectations were ultimately right all along things are not always like how we want and you have to deal with that" instead of the original ending's more positive outlook towards the future, that's now seen as a naive handled view of how things should be, and ultimately as I mentioned before, inconclusive.

Things are clear in that regard for me, (In the original, without Maruki's existence in the plot, the thieves were granted a world were they could do "whatever they wanted", between the limits of their own cognitive knowledge of how the world worked, after defeating Yaldabaoth and getting the holy grail treasure to basically "grant them that wish" as a reward after the fusion between mementos and the real world is finished. In P5R new ending, the change is made evident by having Morgana not steal the plug from the man in black chasing the thieves Van and the thieves not taking Joker home in the new ending to give the "more realistic" approach to that matter.)

This conclusion couldn't exist until P5R came out. Since now the entirety of the new Semester concept lies on the basis that the Phantom Thieves subconsciously granted Maruki his power and caused the whole "actualization event" through wishing someone could make those ideal realities for them, with Maruki being the only one capable of seeing the world the way they would've wanted to be because of their interactions with him. I actually give them credit for this since this is a brilliant detail and makes his tragic antagonistic role even more appealing.

But that leads me to my real and biggest problem with P5R new ending:

-The phantom thieves becoming secondary characters after being the main characters and vehicles to the story in the original game and through the 80% of P5R's story.Now people would call Kasumi waifu bait and other things, hell, even I memed about it before, the reality is, she's the most important tool Itoh and the new writers used to built this new ending, she is the most important character (besides Maruki himself obviously) to make the player empathize with Maruki's motives and actions, she is a victim of her circumstances just like the rest and she's "rescued" by this overprotective father figure character found in Maruki, but he was taking away her freedom as a consequence, thus making her relevant to the game's theme of rebellion. But then she faces that reality and she has to grow out of it by... "insert Itoh favorite writing trope of the protagonist beating the crap out of the heroine to make her come back to her senses" (Same thing he did with Marie in golden). Which is ok I guess, it can be a forgivable writing sin since the built to this was pretty well done. But then... there's nothing.Kasumi is presented and forced into scenes and moments so the player realizes "this character is important, more important than the rest" from very early on, it goes from scene to scene while the original events of the vanilla game still happen, and she was not the only one of coruse, Joker Akechi and Kasumi having their little arcs separated from the rest of the cast was obviously building towards something. But then going against everything Joker did in the original game, (and through 80% of P5R since those events are still in the game obviously) he chose both Kasumi and Akechi (twice in his case) over his other friends. Yes, the thieves were trapped on their fake realities, yes they came to the rescue in the end FOR Joker. But at this point they were: Not fully aware of who Kasumi really was and her involvement with these developments, not aware of the alliance between Joker and Crow, not aware of the weird palace that's been there the whole time. ALL because Joker and Mona kept these things secret from the rest, why? What's the sound logic behind this? Why would Joker not trust his friends with such important information after all they went through? Why are they reduced to convenient sidekicks after they saved his life and proved themselves capable of doing the impossible when they all decided to work together? Why? It makes no sense. They all have been through so much with him, just days before they all were inside the velvet room alongside Joker, finding out about his most intimate aspect and sharing an irreplaceable moment of realization and conviction of together. Just for them to become anticlimactically trapped on their dream worlds and completely forgetting about Joker and their true bond with him. Sure they come back to their senses AFTER Joker triggers their true memories with some words, but this SHOULDN'T have happened after all they went through after their fight with Yaldabaoth. Call it bad timing in the writing sense, but it was a testament of how separated they become from their original role in the new story, all for the sake of these new additions. And still, we can ignore that, I can see over that and say "well it's the ultimate tentation they were never tested through", but here's were the problem lies, besides the fact of Joker never telling his friends about the things I mentioned before, he is now a fully self insert character, when 80% of the original story (which is just the vanilla game honestly) he was written as Joker being his own entity, with his own sense of justice very clearly defined and a focus towards his friends as his most precious part of his life. This is suddenly thrown to the garbage in the new semester.

Why? Because now the player has to make a choice that the original Joker wouldn't make in the original, chose Akechi over the other phantom thieves. It honestly feels like a huge regression.Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Akechi's new confidant and his amazing dynamic with Joker being exploited the best way possible. I do, I am a fan of Akechi's character archetype and his characterization in both vanilla and his new scenes in royal. I am a sucker for antagonistic villainous characters getting a proper redemption arc in convincing ways. But the price was too high for my liking.

By the price I mean; You literally CAN'T get the new TRUE (complete) ending without choosing to keep your promise with Akechi, which means, you can't see the full extent of the story conclusion, Maruki's and Kasumi's arcs won't get any closure and you will only get a now "diminished" ending (the vanilla original ending), if you don't chose to keep your promise with Akechi. A "personal" promise and one you never told your friends about. The worst part of this decision is, the whole reason Joker and Akechi's dynamic works so well is because they were originally written as pretty oposite characters with their own unique distinguished quirks morals AND sense of justice. But then, suddenly, at the climax of the story, Joker is just a self insert blank state? That just does not work.

As for Sumire, once she's brought back and awakens again, her character arc ends, she becomes just another sidekick like the rest of the thieves, which makes all the built her character was used for... what? It's not really pointless, since it brings the story to this point, but what's left for her? What's her role now? She goes back to being Kasumi in the metaverse and the optional aspect of her confidant makes this transition to her going back to being Sumire feel kind of ambiguous and also inconclusive. Yes I know she is honoring the memory of her sister and that she has accepted her reality, that's true, but the development comes to a sudden turn when she suddenly becomes just another one in the crew behind Goro and Joker. All the phantom thieves had their roles cleared out beforehand soon after their insertion arcs were finished, Ann was the conscience of the team, always asking "are we doing the right thing?" Yusuke was the same, always second guessing every choice with a worst case scenario since as he said in his awakening "in order to see true authenticity, one has to be dispassionately realistic", Ryuji was always the one going for it and wanting things getting done he's the focus, Makoto is the advisor, so she became the clear headed tactician, Futaba was the tool device, she became the medium to the ends always finding ways to work around towards their goals, Mona is the heart and the hope representing their wish to inspire society through their actions, Haru was the kindness, a reminder of what are they trying to inspire and a source of tolerance the thieves were missing until she joined in. Sumire was... what? This honestly bothered me, made me feel the whole journey was just a bad joke, because now not only the phantom thieves were reduced to mere sidekicks, so was the one character with most promise in the story while Goro became the player's beating husband through Joker, a testament of the choice he made of choosing the image they made the player have of Akechi, the one person Joker couldn't save, the one who's beyond saving at thins point over the friends and family he did saved. By the way, as contradictory as it may sound, I loved the twist, having Akechi's life depending on the final choice for true freedom, it was clever, it added the right heart wrenching moment right before the climax, what I didn't like was how clear it was made at this point how little the other thieves mattered. Why? Have the phantom thieves ever sent a calling card without having giving their full agreement? Especially when a new important development could come up from their actions at the last moment? Not until this point, Goro's life was on the line here, he was an ally now, he was a phantom thief member, they all agreed to this. But were they informed of this last minute development by Joker, you know, so they could all agree to what was the right thing to do like they all had swear to do every time? No, because Joker made that decision himself, because all that mattered was the player decision the self insert decision. Hell not even a cheap text group chat scene, nothing.You can say "this is a personal thing between Joker and Goro and a personal choice for Akechi". Well sure, yet they were all about to put their lives at risk for this, like they've been doing this whole time. They would've argued they deserved to know this, even if they had reached the same conclusion at the end, but with this, in a story that focuses so much on details, whatever oath the phantom thieves had before this, became meaningless. The player can once again just like with Yaldabaoth chose to ruin everyone's chance for true freedom by choosing a selfish self inserted reasoning out of the blue to get a "bad end". Honestly, I also felt the original bad end in vanilla P5 was bad but this? This was worst, this took things to another level, sure the angst was well written and the suffering masked behind this fake happiness was very clever, but its also so cheapened because at this point, why would the player care about those other characters if you make this choice? They were sidelined so bad that their "happiness" becomes just flavor to the story and to be honest, the good decision was just as selfish because of this. I have no problems with the final boss fight, it was honestly amazing and almost made me forget all that happened before when I first played it because it was just so over the top and emotional, I honestly loved it. But then comes the final cut-scenes. Skip Joker going back to prison (why even bother with that though? He literally went just for 10 days and every value of the sacrifice he made in the original was now lost because of the new semester events), skip the the decisions the thieves made about their futures, their display of individuality was great but they don't matter at this point anyway. And here's the final insult, yes I am salty because the "main party" didn't take Joker home, but not because they didn't go through the action of taking him home, but because they weren't really doing anything relevant if anything at all after being the main characters the whole game (except for the new semester) No closure for them just quirkiness and flavor for the sake of a "reality" based message, felt cheap and dismissive, like someone not wanting to go through the trouble of writing something for characters they didn't create or even like. Why did I called the P5R ending lazy you ask? Because they didn't bother making an ending at all, but just to rewrite the original in a way the message of "reality" is settled over, sure their individuality is highlighted by not taking joker home and them being focused on their own different things on their lives, but so they were in the original, this ending and them being sent away was made at the price of the relevance of the thieves bonds with Joker once again, I would've been ok if we at least got to see more of THEM as individuals through the ending or even just as a group, hell this was the final time we'll see them and they were our most precious allies, maybe give us some time with them for the sake of the experiences we had, they did that with Golden's epilogue after all, why not here? But instead, we just see them just go around town being quirky and sneaky distracting the corrupt policemen while Joker gets his new cut-scenes goodbyes with the new characters in the game, because they deserve closure as well for sure, yet they do so over the others? In my opinion, at this point, no. But they did just that, they declared with this change that, the phantom thieves members weren't needed and their futures and story were irrelevant, it was all about Joker, Goro, Maruki and Kasumire, the rest were just sidekicks and these scenes were more important so the player can get what happens to these new favorites, all at the price of the original team relevance. That, was my problem with the new ending. Of course I'm happy to know about their futures and choices through the credits, but that's just lazy, they were more relevant than that in the original, but now they're just afterthoughts shown through credit scenes. No relevance whatsoever in their final moments in this story. It certainly hurt seeing them being this diminished after the original made me care about these characters so much.You can say to me "well, there's still the vanilla ending for you" but no, I said it before, retroactively that ending has become irrelevant and inconclusive, which means this is now how the phantom thieves are represented as, Joker's sidekicks, not a team of bandits and misfits working together as a unit like it was in the original. Again, this is my very personal take on the game new ending, feel free to disagree and call me a clown, but the original made a huge impact on me, the events of P5R ending wounded my appreciation for this story, not it's characters, not the theme, just the future they'll write for these characters from now on. That is all.

Sorry about this Essay lol, but this is the only way I could fully communicate everything It made me feel wrong about this new ending. It was not just a matter of preference for me.