#the two sides of ''pls let a completed story stay that way'' vs ''I Need More Krdc Content'' duking it out in my brain rn

[cubedmango]

well I remember reading about how the movie was made due the love and popularity so maybe it could happen with a season two as well like what movie gets shown for 8 months straight idk plus I never really got that official goodbye feeling from the end of the movie and the promos I feel like there’s still that chance maybe? mostly just letting delusion win to keep me sane because a married life season would literally fix me as a person

honestly they could make a s2 out of anything if they wanted bc we would 100% eat it up but to me the movie felt like a v natural ending (maybe since it caught up to vol 10) ?? most dramas dont usually care abt endings and drag out stories as long as theyll profit but i dont think the cm crew would do that tbh ..... but who knows lol maybe theyll give us that s2 of jst married life 0 drama honeymoon content. i wouldnt complain (probably)

[moonraccoon-exe]

Ignis Scientia, originally from Tenebrae, raised alongside Ravus and Luna as brother and friend, the future advisor to Prince Ravus, forever loyal and loving. How would their relationship have changed Ravus from what we know of today? How would it have changed history? Noctis never having Ignis in his life, along with Gladio and Prompto never knowing Ignis Scientia? Like, how would have things been different? Hell, maybe the story would've gone on the way it did. Hmmm...I wonder, though.

((It’s not exactly that, but your entry reminded me a bit of The Princes of Lucis, this fic where no journey or Empire invasion happened and everyone’s happy and there’s Ravnis vs. Gladnis ahahaha.))

Dude, YES!!!

Tenebraean Ignis has something hnnfg. I really like what you’re suggesting here. Can you imagine?

I think that, to start off, Ravus would have been a tad bit happier. Sure, they still take Lunafreya from him, he has to watch her wither with every Astrals she awakens, and etc. But at least he’s not entirely, completely alone; he has his loyal adviser, his loyal friend, his loyal brother next to him.

The Ravus + Ignis relationship would be very, very strong. They would understand each other greatly, they would be each other’s complement. They’re both wise each otheir own way; Ignis could be the sense when Ravus lacks of it,and Ravus can be the confidence when Ignis lacks of it. 

But it’s also about the Niflheim invasion on Tenebrae.

This scenario has Ignis in it, on the Tenebraean side. There where Queen Sylva is murdered in front of not only Ravus, but also Ignis, who could have, as young, stood in the way between the queen and the prince. Where Regis ran away with Noctis in arms, and where Lunafreya stays behind when she turns and sees the queen dead and Ravus and Ignis curled up together, and she chooses to stay with them.

This would mean that Niflheim would take Ignis as part of them like they did to Ravus!

I guess Lunafreya was more or less ‘free’ after Niflheim took over Tenebrae because she’s the Oracle and etc., but I’ve always understood and seen it as Ravus being taken from throne rights to become a Nif soldier; no queen, Ravus should be king, but instead of that he focuses on working as Niflheim’s Commander, so I do think he was taken from throne rights. 

...which means so was Ignis. Not from throne rights, but he turns from the prince’s adviser to another soldier. Who knows, maybe Niflheim takes him as strategist as well. 

In any case, Ignis and Ravus would still stick together. And that’s part of why their bond would be so, so big and unbreakable; not only they grow up together as brothers, they also stay together after they’re taken from everyone else. So, in a way, each is the only thing the other has. Of course all the love (in whatever way) focuses in each other, and with the rough, very awful, terrible times they must have gone through, it would only grow stronger, as they go through them together.

High Commander Ravus and Imperial Strategist Ignis.

somebodypleasedrawthat*cough*

I think that while Ignis could have gone serious and cold like Ravus did, it would no be as intense, and Ravus wouldn’t be so cruel either. It would be like they both become colder, but not as much as they’d do had they been alone. 

I think Ravus wouldn’t be as dead inside as he is. He’d have had company, a wise and loyal friend always by his side, to keep his human side alive, his goodness reigning over the bad, the light to win against the dark. Maybe none is necessarily happy, but at least they don’t go full evil mode. 

The change in Ravus’ personality and feelings sounds good!

...but I want you to think about Imperial Strategist Ignis Scientia.

Hngnfdgnfdngd

Lucis is fucked.

Who knows, maybe it’s Ignis who gets them a much earlier victory. Maybe they don’t even need to do the fake treaty thing, Ignis would find ways to do that more subtly and win with a less cruel but more crude way.

And that’s the end? Commander Ravus + Imperial strategist Ignis = Lucis loses fast, clean and quick. That’s...even more frightening than the huge attack on the capital. Brr.

Ravus, not too blinded by the dark and a better person, would probably never put the ring on, either! Maybe he tries, but as he’s always in company of Ignis, Ignis stops him. 

Noct never having Ignis in his life sounds like troubles, hahaha. But seriously, it does. Ignis basically dedicates his life to Noctis’, he’s the reason the prince is alive and functioning. I think Noct would have much more struggles,way, far, amazingly huge more struggles with no Iggy. I think Noct has some certain degree of medical depression, so not having Ignis as an emotional support but also as the support who helps him clean his place and do his homework and cook for him, Noct’s depression could probably would be much worse.

Not because it would make him sadder to be alone or to have someone else, but because the little things that Ignis does are great help for someone with depression; keeping a house clean, motivating (even if its via insisting stubbornly) the person to do their homework and papers, and making sure they eat, it sounds logical and tiny and unimportant but honestly they can do wonders to someone’s depression,if not by making them happier, it’s so they won’t become sadder and so they stay healthy. I betcha Noct can cook something for himself, but it’s different to have the skill than the motivation or intention. Noct would probably have many troubles, you feel me?

Wow, now that was unnecessarily too deep into the psychology of the characters ahahahaha. Sorry.

Going back to the empire’s invasion and how it’d have been much easier with Ignis serving on their side, let’s assume things go the same. Maybe, as neither Ravus or Ignis lose their human/good side to Niflheim as they kept each other’s human/good side alive, they don’t agree with it, and Ignis pretends he doesn’t have an idea of how to invade Insomnia. But the Empire figures it out. 

So if they can’t stop the invasion, they’ll cause the less harm possible.

Maybe they even dare save the ring! Imagine they are present during the invasion, but they switch to the Lucian side. Hndhgnfdngjnfdg.

Or imagine maybe Niflheim does manage to take the bad side of them out and they do have all the intention of destroying Insomnia. How could would it be in that first encounter with Ravus to have been approached by two figures?

“Who were those?” Prompto asks after the Chancellor made the men that attacked Gladio go away.

“Imperial Strategist Ignis Scientia” Cor, the fourth party member, explains. “The man that planned Insomnia’s invasion. And Ravus Nox Fleuret, commander of the Imperial army, and brother of Lady Lunafreya.”

Okay, but if companion-to-Ravus Ignis happens, you know what would have probably been canon?

That Daemon!Ravus kills him.

It’s not even on screen because for some reason Squeenix would make it that way (though we may see it in an optional verse 2 of chapter 13 lol). There’s Ravus, trying to hand the sword to Noctis, who slashes his arm off, and walks away (we know this is Ardyn, though). And then Ignis chimes in; he had been aiding Noctis through Zegnautus, made it possible for the prince to make it through it alive, but now he finds Ravus dead and thrown there.

So last we see is Ignis mourning him, before a black-goo arm suddenly grabs him by the throat.

And that’s how the Boss Battle starts; the main party is reunited, and suddenly there’s this loud scream that could give anyone a heart attack out of mere fear, a second of silence, Ravus Aeterna starts playing, and BAM! Daemon!Ravus comes in, with Ignis’ corpse in a hand.

Maybe he can even whisper “Ignis...” among his agony during the fight, like he calls for Lunafreya (I think?). Hnfgnndfgf. Mustn’t have been eays, murdering who was basically his brother, having killed it without having meant it.

can everyone live, pls.

Maybe Episode Ignis is the moment when they finally switch sides as in properly, and that’s why they go around Altissia together; they already knew each other, they just got separated for a tiny moment, but they’ve always been together throughout the entire story.

Hnnndngf.

I don’t know, man. This is FULL of possibilities. So, so, so full of possibilities, MY BRAIN IS FULL! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!

This scenario would be ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL! What do you think would happen?

If anyone wants to share any ideas, you bring them on! I LOVE this scenario and would happily  hear more of it haosdojsdfkjfsgsdj

Thanks for the idea! :O

[gay-jesus-probably]

Pls talk about your Tron & Rinzler are different personalities headcanon because that's a headcanon of mine too & I saw your post in the tron legacy tag && got rly excited that someone else has that headcanon ahaa

Anon, I will gladly talk about this FOREVER.

Okay so first of all, let me just address the fact that yeah. I know. There is literally no evidence whatsoever in canon for this. But yknow. Rinzler says about nine words total, so whatever’s going on in his head is not going to be shared in a movie. If Legacy was done on a written medium (book or comic) Rinzler probably would have gotten at least one or two scenes from his perspective. But it’s a movie, and we don’t even have facial expressions, so we need to fill in the blanks ourselves of how he gets from ‘loyal enforcer’ to ‘I FIGHT FOR THE USERS’.

And for the record, I’d like to just say that the entire reason I have this headcanon at all is the fic Domestic by tehkittykat on Ao3, the plot of it being that Alan finds what he thinks is Tron dying in the Grid after the events of the movie, repairs him, brings him out into the real world, but upon waking up we find that surprise Tron’s long dead it’s literally just Rinzler, and the plot follows him settling in to the User world, and dealing with the aftermath of like everything from Clu. If you haven’t read it, go read it.

So preamble done with, let’s get into the real meta.

So in the post Anon’s referencing (this one) I mention that I think Tron and Rinzler are separate personalities, and basically different people, due to them having vastly different fighting styles and behaviour. And I believe that for a variety of reasons. I mean for a start, Rinzler can’t possibly be basically just a really fancy black guard. He’s not a standard re-purposed program. First of all, there’s the glaring problem. Tron wasn’t coded by Kevin Flynn. He was made by Alan Bradley. Kevin Flynn is the kind of man who spontaneously wanders out into the wastelands and makes the most important program on the Grid with a fucking mirror or whatever. He’s got all the raw talent and creativity, but not the focus and drive. Wheras on the flip side, it’s canon somewhere that Tron started being programmed two years before the events of the movie. And that the entire thing was Alan’s very slow ultimate gambit to take out the MCP, with plan A being Tron is completed and deletes MCP for being dangerous, and plan B being Tron is deleted by MCP, and the MCP going after independent security gives Alan all the proof he needs to pull the plug from the outside. Heads I win, tails you lose. And he spent two years working on it, apparently covering his ass with a paper trail (”Yes Mr. Dillinger I sent you a memo on my Tron project”), and also got in good with Gibbs to stop him from getting fired without reason. My point is, Alan Bradley is damn meticulous, and Tron’s coding definitely reflects that. So when it comes to repurposing, the standard work we see in Uprising wouldn’t be enough. Clu probably had to manually overwrite Tron’s code, and it probably was a long and frustrating process. Flynn’s coding probably has holes. Alan’s, not so much.

So, that’s the first reason. Rinzler would have to be much more complex than any black guard, because Tron’s coding would be deeply confusing and borderline alien to Clu, and much more meticulously written than any other program on the Grid, including Clu. I’d imagine if an ISO or User was ever repurposed, it would be the same story, on account of them being fundamentally different from anything Clu is used to.

Second of all, as I’ve mentioned, the biggest clue (no pun intended) is the fighting style. Just look at Tron fighting in the original, Uprising, and the flashback in Legacy. He stays planted on the ground. He’s not flipping around, either with an audience or without. Wheras Rinzler, as we all know, might as well be flying for all he stays on the ground. The man is made of unnecessary acrobatics, and let’s all be honest here it’s fucking awesome. But it’s about as far removed from Tron’s style as you can get. I mean obviously, both are getting the same badassery ranking, but Tron’s more of a ‘straightforwards brute strength’ style, while Rinzler is a ‘momentum and using opponents own actions against them’ kind of fighter. Both damn good, but very different. Rinzler’s ridiculously dynamic. And he’s like that the entire movie. A few meta posts suggest that he was programmed by Clu to drag out arena fights with his acrobatic style, but that’s only really taking in mind the arena fight against Sam. We do see him fight again, against Quorra on the Recitifier, and against Sam and Quorra on the Throneship. There’s no audience for those fights, and more importantly, there’s no Clu. If Rinzler was going to switch back to Tron’s sharp, efficient style, that would be the time. But instead, he sticks with the flipping, and handles things in the same style. Sure, he does it a lot faster, but that’s probably because Sam in the arena was being approached as ‘goddamn idiot walked right into this, might as well fuck with him first’, while Sam and Quorra later on are both taken as ‘this is serious lets get this shit over with quickly’. I feel like if it was just a badly corrupted Tron in there, he’d switch back to his normal fighting style the second Clu wasn’t watching. Muscle memory and all, or whatever the program equivalent is. But he doesn’t, because that was never Rinzler’s style to begin with.

And overall, just. Experience. I think it’s unanimously agreed that Rinzler does not have access to Tron’s memories, and is not supposed to, because you really don’t want your brainwashed enforcer to remember how much he hates you. That’s just common sense. So, even if Rinzler started out as just a brainwashed and corrupted Tron, he’s around for roughly 20 years, give or take however long Uprising lasts. And time moves slower in the Grid, so it’s more like over a thousand years by their standards I think. My point is, Tron’s around for about nine human years, Rinzler’s around for about twenty. Even if they’re not a split personality, Tron’s going to come out of the whole experience more Rinzler than Tron (AND WE ARE NOT EVEN CONSIDERING HIM DYING AT THE END OF THE MOVIE THEY DON’T SPECIFICALLY SHOW HIM DEREZZING SO HE’S ALIVE AS FAR AS I CARE FUCK YOU). And really, Clu is Clu. There’s no fucking way Rinzler had a safe and supportive enviroment during that 20-ish years. The man tortured and brainwashed him, and as we see, has some stunning anger issues. I think it’s a unanimous fandom agreement that Clu was majorly abusive towards Rinzler, because there’s no risk of retaliation, nobody to stop him, and Clu’s already got Issues over Tron. I mean, just re-watch Legacy (it’s on Netflix), and pay close attention to Rinzler’s body language. His posture becomes hunched over and submissive whenever Clu’s in the scene with him. He looks like he wants to bolt sometimes. It’s subtle, but the staging and body language definitely implies some very not good things happening to Rinzler during pretty much his entire life. So even if there’s no split personality to start with, Tron was used to either loyally serving a caring higher power (Alan, Flynn, and pre-coup Clu) or fighting against a tyrannical oppressor (MCP and post-coup Clu). His relationship with figures of authority was either something positive, or something openly antagonistic that he openly fought against. And on the flip side, Rinzler only ever served under Clu. He didn’t have the option to leave the abusive situation, or even openly resist it. His only options would have been to endure, and to quietly manipulate events and people to protect himself. Like, during the scene where he’s dragging Quorra off to what is implied to be some very fucking horrifying things? Rinzler doesn’t show any hesitation at all, and I’m willing to bet that his thought process is something along the lines of ‘if Clu’s focusing on her, he’s not paying attention to me’, because that’s what abusive situations do to your head. Everything comes down to survival, and protecting yourself. Your priorities shift dramatically, because they have to, or you’re not going to make it. Ironically, the best way to survive abuse is to pick up abusive traits to defend yourself, and there’s nothing wrong with protecting yourself from your abuser, the real struggle is trying to get rid of the abusive traits once you get out. Rinzler’s likely about as far away from Tron’s ‘holy paladin’ type as possible. They may not have been a split personality at first, but they would inevitably get there just from the vastly different lives and experiences. It’s nature vs. nurture.

As for Rinzler not talking, it’s kind of annoying that we never get a canon explanation for that. Personally, I figure that it’s either ‘severe damage to the talking parts makes speech painful and difficult’, or ‘Clu has ordered Rinzler to only speak when absolutely necessary’. Or possibly some combination of the two. Either way, it means we just don’t get Rinzler’s view on the matter, which deeply upsets me. Because, as I’ve mentioned, Legacy treats Rinzler like shit, a writer deserves to be slapped for the line “Tron, what have you become”, and my husband needs to be saved.

In summary, read Domestic, fuck the Legacy writers, Rinzler and Tron are different personalities, and if anyone wants to know my full opinions on what the fuck was up between Rinzler and Clu just ask because a full examination of that one is going to need it’s own post and a nice assortment of trigger warnings.

and I meant to go to bed and answer this in the morning but i kept writing this in my head so i gave up and got up to write this. i’m going to bed now. ur welcome everybody.